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Quote:
It's been how long again?


Since the bomb?

Four months. Status quo started earlier than that. Probably since February.

Are you really asking or trying to remind me how long it's been?

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Pookie,

As promised, I am now caught up on your thread. I appreciated that you took the time to "hijack" me the other day. It's always good when you discover you're not alone.

I'm sorry for you though. Wouldn't wish all this on anyone. Coach gave me some very important affirmation about some of the things I'm trying to formulate as a plan. I think that you have a duty to stand by her until you find out for sure what her condition is and then afterwards if it might take her life. She can be a $hithead just like mine, but she's your $hithead. She's scared and confused and those negative aspects of her personality are going to come out during those times when she's really feeling it. If she doesn't outright reject your support, stick it out. Coach and Puppy both councilled me on this. they both said be there for her, but also not to accept CB.

I'm not all the way sure how I will do it, but I'm going to try.
I hope for both of us that the health issues are run to ground and turn out to be less serious than suspected. There'll be plenty of time to resume full-on db if so. In the mean time, those aspects of DB that are good for her, i.e. taking the lead; being emotionally strong; having self respect and confidence; Keeping your self physically strong, mentally alert and morally straight will all help you and her.

I have temporarilly discontinued my focus on our future and M. I will be there for my W and try and lighten the load as much as possible while WE face this.

I guess, this is not really advice. I'm not sure how it will all play out or even how I will advance. But it is my planned aproach and I thought I'd share it with you.

Good luck man. I'll stay tuned in.


ADAPT. OVERCOME. IMPROVISE.
-Tom Highway


Me: 43
W: 40
S12 & S9
Married 17yrs
Together 20yrs
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I purposely did not jump up and hooked up the generator like I usually do.


passive-aggressive, not manly

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She asked if I was going to hook up the generator.


Do you know why she asked? Women want safety, they expect their man to provide it. It wasn't a question it was a request.

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I just stood there thinking - who invited you to come, but I did not want to be mean and let her tag along.


Who's got the bad attitude? something is bothering you and you don't say anything. So the passive-agressive pouty boy will put a damper on the night.

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She wanted to take it slow so we would have a better chance to return to the house with power back on.


You have no idea what woman want. You are a dog lover - women are cats. Can't you see what she really wanted, she pursued you for dinner.

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We talked about her work which is always a stimulating conversation. Again I made sure I listened and made eye contact when she was speaking. I am getting very good at that. I let her finish all her sentences before butting in. I made my responses short and to the point. She seemed to enjoy that.


Why did she seem to enjoy that?

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I was holding to my opinions strongly but reasonably trying to explain why I see things differently. She started arguing that I don't know the whole story and I am missing facts. I agreed that I do not claim to know everything. I asked her to fill me in on the facts. She tried but came up short. I politely suggested that we could carry on the topic once we both have educated ourselves a bit more. She agreed, but was irritated.


She wanted to have a debate, it's exciting, stimulating and she wants to know what you think. You shut the dialouge down, you sound very condescending from here.

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Silence followed.


See the result?

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She immediately started complaining that it is not the same as it used to be and started laying out every little thing that was wrong with it. I just let her complain. Finally she was done and I asked if there is anything right for you today.


put-down
Agree with her feelings it's how woman feel connected to other people.

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I said that I was glad that something was right and that she looks really miserable today.


So the big man is glad she likes her soup and the compliment I'm sure really brightened her mood.

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I was totally ready for her to start blaming me for all the misery in the world, but she didn't.


That expectation comes across loud and clear.

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She only said that she has one of those moments (referring to her health condition) and that she does not want to talk about it.


I bet you didn't ask her about her health either. 800 lb gorilla in the room and you avoid it after she brings it up. Don't believe for a minute she doesn't want to talk about. She will find someone to listen.

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She talked all the way home and at that point I tuned her out.


There is a reason you haven't ML in over a yr.

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I was just drained from her mood swings and energy I had to use to hold it in check.


Why did her mood swings drain you?

You are holding back a lot of anger, fear and bitterness. Have you read up on co-dependence and passive-aggressive behavior?

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The rest of the evening was nice and uneventful.


Most guys on here would kill to have their wife want to go out to dinner with them. Your goal should be to have "events" after going out with your wife and sharing a good time.


I see your wife as someone wanting more and you not providing it.


M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12
Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
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Coach,
That was fascinating. That is the nuts and bolts of a conversation broken down to help us learn about women. Other than the "tuned her out" line I missed a great deal.


Me 44, W 39, S 6, D 6, M 21
Bomb June 18, 2010
I filed D July 20, 2010
W filed counter suit Aug 2
Rings came off Aug 5, 2010
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Coach,

You are amazing. That's why I'm here.

There is such a fine line between pushing and being passive. The trick to successful 180 is where to draw that line. I can see that I am bouncing between extremes.

How about just being normal if I only knew what that felt like...

Got to do some more reading.


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Quote:
How about just being normal if I only knew what that felt like...


forget normal, be the best Pookie you can. that's success.


You won't have the ability to "see" her and the situations if you are holding in negative emotions - anger, fear, resentment etc. They cloud your vision and how you act. You can't love her until you really love yourself - you can't give away what you don't have. This builds your confidence and the ability to show compassion and empathy (real validation.) So my point is learning "techniques" isn't as effective as learning what love, connection, intimacy, dialouge and attraction are. Having this wisdom allows you to love and connect in a powerful way.


M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12
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be the best Pookie you can


Does not seem to be hard if my head wasn't spinning with all this DB stuff.

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You won't have the ability to "see" her and the situations if you are holding in negative emotions - anger, fear, resentment etc


Anger - not so much anymore. Of course I was angry when she dropped the bomb.

Fear - absolutely, fear of her health, fear of losing her and my family, fear of being rejected while honestly showing compassion and empathy.

Resentment - that's more towards the whole sitch. Why do I want to be with the person who does not want to be with me?

Some dozens of posts back I got yelled at for not being decisive. W was asking me for a commitment date to tell her when I will give her an answer to "leave her and move out" which that day had changed to "what are your plans?" I was told that it was the only true thing she is interested of hearing from me - the decision that I am unable to make.

I was then criticized for not making my own decisions that weekend when she suddenly started leading the activities which we both enjoyed. I was very confused then as I still am. I saw that my promise to talk to her about my decision by a certain date relaxed her to the point that she was able to have a great time with me. I did not see a reason to disagree with whatever she wanted to do. I was told that I was weak.

Another thing happened that weekend was the complete revelation of her health problems. She had kept it inside for many months. I was not as shocked as I would have been if I already did not know. Nevertheless is was disturbing and scary.

I have been preparing myself to let her go and tell her that I will move out if she still wants me to. I have to do that don't I? But considering that I know (she has told me) her health condition and all the uncertainty around it, how will she really look at me if I say that I will leave her? How can there be TRUE compassion and empathy from me? How do you balance between what I THINK she wants to hear, what she REALLY wants to hear and what would be a HONORABLE thing to do.

Am I 180'ing right out the door that she opened?

People here say al lot about WAW's constantly monitoring and testing you. How do I know that I am not under an ultimate test? A test of honor.

1. Am I a man enough to let her go? Wouldn't that honorable thing to do?

2. Am I a man enough not to run yet, stay beside her and help her to get through with her health condition? Wouldn't that honorable thing to do?

3. Am I a man enough to have recognized that R changes are required and taken steps to come out to implement them? Am I capable of becoming a man she fell in love with and lead us both to the right path to be happy together as a family? Wouldn't that honorable thing to do?

There is no way of knowing which answer she is waiting for. Any one of the above would put an end to the status quo. We both agree on that. The R as it stands needs to end.

One's health is nothing to play games with. She could have kept that secret from me forever or at least until I moved out. Now she has told me everything she knows.

Is she really expecting me to pack up and leave now? Could that be the biggest mistake I can make? I have been preparing for the worst and hoping for the best but this sitch has gotten very convoluted.

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Quote:
Isn't the idea to not to engage in silliness while maintaining a civil attitude? Not falling into traps that I have before?


NO. The idea is to be so attractive that someone who has become bored with the mundane sees nothing but excitment and falls head over heels in love with you. You lead, you flirt, you engage in conversation that does not allow them to regurgitate the negativity of their day but want to tell you about their goals and dreams. Then you make them feel like that is the only thing that matters in the world. You make them laugh. Do this no matter who you are with, your walk away wife, your loving wife, someone that takes an interest in you, your colleagues, and your clients. It is as simple as making someone feel that when they are around you they are important.

It is hard to find "chemistry" with someone who cannot break the silence and allows themselves to be uncomfortable. It's hard to want to develop "chemistry" when the other person does not want to know everything about you and challenges you to let them know more.

My only recommendations, if the dinner thing is periods of awkward silence and arguments start choosing to split an appetizer. It makes for a much quicker change of scenery if the social interaction starts to go down hill. Try not leaving your date/wife alone at the table to go have a smoke. Wandering eyes find attention. And, throw out your diary products, because in your bonehead move to make a point, your milk and mayonaise sat unrefridgerated.


A bit of useless knowledge:
The Capgras delusion (or Capgras syndrome) is a disorder in which a person holds a delusion that a friend, spouse, parent or other close family member has been replaced by an identical-looking impostor.

Be your own Doppelgänger that represents mystique and desire.

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Had a meeting with my IC this morning. He seems to think that based on W's behavior she does not have both feet out the door just yet.

My decision deadline is approaching. IC recommended to "bet on a horse" and lay out my thoughts as follows:

"I will move out if you want me to. I will be fine without you however I prefer to have you along in my life. I think that it is worth taking another look at our situation. I agree that the current R is dead and the status quo needs to end but I prefer to try to re-create ourselves to work on a new R.

I will stand by you and be supportive with your struggle through your health issues as long as you let me to.

If you ask me to move out, I will but I would prefer to maintain a R that allows for us to re-create ourselves.

These are my thoughts towards the decision that needs to be made."

IC did not think that this is too pursuing given the fact that there have been some signals that W may have second thoughts but would not budge until she sees that I have made some decisions whatever they may be. He also said that it's okay to put that in writing and give it to her because they are just thoughts and not the final decision.

Thoughts anyone?

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Quote:
"I will move out if you want me to.


I quit after reading that. Do you understand why that opening is terrible?


M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12
Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
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