Doc, I think the advice you got on your thread is true--strong, positive, leadership is the mindset you and I must have. This means we Act As If in spite of feelings of ambivalence, mistrust, and anger. In my case I need to learn to have my W experience the "whip of reality" if she crosses any major boundaries. Until that happens, keep my mind and actions focused on building a stronger M and tame the fear, doubt, and anger.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
Doc and DB Friends, I know that I can't simply rest and think that all will be well. I think my W is still vulnerable into lapsing into old patterns. I will need to do my part to help prevent these problems from re-occurring. I also know that I can't police her 24/7. I am prepared to call an attorney if a major violation occurs again.
I'll do my best to keep her busy with positive activity, especially since she is unemployed. Having a pool to go to is different for us. It has a relaxing effect on her. On nights when we don't have an activity planned, I've been suggesting we go for an hour, and break-up the evening. I've been telling her that she is looking more tone since we've been attending the exercise classes (she does). I know physical intimacy will have to be addressed at some point. I need to change some avoidance patterns.
I like the frame of positive leadership as mentioned on Doc's thread. I think this captures well the role of those of us in Piecing--moving our spouse's and M forward, in spite of distressing thoughts and feelings.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
DB Friends, The thorn in my side depressed person that my W worries about is moving out of town this week, about 600 miles away.
The distance may be a false sense of security.
Originally Posted By: Concerned_Listener
He gave my W a piece of furniture, and dropped it off last night. It does look nice in our dance practice area.
I would not accept any items from the friend that may serve as reminders.
Originally Posted By: Concerned_Listener
She was considering going over to her "friend's" house to help him pack. I asked her what time she would be home (different behavior).
What happened to your boundaries?!?! The boundary should be no contact, physical or otherwise ever again, and you simply asked when she would be home?? No wonder she gave you a strange look.
Also, the threat of going to an attorney to discuss options is fairly empty. You already know what your options are regarding an attorney. An attorney will may suggest you work through your issues with some councelling, file for a legal separation or file for divorce. Pretty cut an dry. The tough question is are you willing to take that drastic step if she crosses a particular boundary.
HFF, I disagree. Have you read "Boundaries in Marriage?" The spirit of the book of the book is to move the M forward, not control the other person, or get into power struggles.
I'm going to set boundaries over undisputed major boundary violations--spending the night at the OP's place, or taking a vacation with him. Having a tantrum over furniture items or her talking on the phone with him, or dancing with him, or helping him move is not where I want to put my energy. I don't like it, but don't consider these major boundary violations.
The threat of contacting an attorney is a wake-up call to my W to cease and desist--a reality check that my mindset is to consider separation or D.
It's confusing because the connection has been so good these past few months. She does not speak highly of the OP, but has a compassion for him and wishes him well. If the positives were not in place, I might be walking to the attorney more quickly. It's not an easy judgment call on this side of the fence.
I think I'll know when it's time to fire the next warning shot. It's not yet time IMO.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
I'm going to set boundaries over undisputed major boundary violations--spending the night at the OP's place, or taking a vacation with him. Having a tantrum over furniture items or her talking on the phone with him, or dancing with him, or helping him move is not where I want to put my energy. I don't like it, but don't consider these major boundary violations. CL
CL, You and I both need to work on ourselves… WE both need do become positive leaders..I have not read your book but I have to agree with you about setting the bounders up. You and I are walking a thin line, I know both of us are better off than we were two years ago but I also know that even right now with my W telling me the OM is nothing to worry about.. If I said I do not want her to ever talk to him again... The negotiations would be over. Kind of like telling a kid they can’t have something makes them want it more… Or just doing something because you want to show someone they (us) can’t tell you what to do. (Even though they would normally not do it anyway.) NO MORE spending the night at the OP's place or taking a vacation with him... I would also throw in no going dancing with him without YOU present... Although if he IS moving this should not be an Issue.
Good luck buddy... Tonight is the last night of my father / son Vacation… Tomorrow night I will not be sleeping alone for the first time in two years……..not sure what I am coming “home” to...
And if I claim to be a wise man, well It surely means that I don't know
Doc, I see that you get the difference between boundary setting and trying to control. I think that if I try to tell her who she can't dance with, it's going to do more harm than good. My plan is to limit the amount of time she's out dancing alone, to minimize the potential for trouble.
I know I can't police my way thru a M, but relapse into old pattens is still likely while we're in the Piecing phase. My mistake in the past was giving her too much freedom to be in the dance community alone. Temptation can work it's magic on any of us. The truth is I used her dancing as a babysitter to give myself some free time, when I needed to push myself and be there with her. I now think more in terms of being a couple.
Last night my W wanted to go to the dance venue to say goodbye to the OP. I decided to go with the idea of intervening if he attempted to lure her to his place. She wanted to drive separately, which was curious.
I went and had a nice time. I let them dance together quite often. I made sure to dance several times with my W. They looked more like a couple than we did. I was cordial to him, and wished him good luck. I stayed very late, until she decided it was time to go. The OP went home. My W verified that she was going home. She did come home.
When she came to bed, I put my arm around her. She took it off. I'll try again another night.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
I went out dancing with my W for a third night in a row (she was itching to get out). I've decided to think more like a partner and go with her, even if I'd rather sleep. I ended-up having a good time, and got some good practice in. The compromise was that we stayed in town, even though she wanted to travel an hour away.
The issue of vacation is on the table again. I believe that our dance trip to Florida counts as a vacation. She wants another trip to Puerto Rico. She started threatening last night to find a travel partner to go with. I spoke up and told her "only if it's a female." I wrote her an email when I woke up today, and put the vacation negotiations back on the table. I think she's willing to do a budget trip--rooms versus hotels.
I've been getting irritable about the dance performance teams, as our expectations get higher, and I try to incorporate specific skills. My W has threatened to walk out on our practices. Our dance teacher observes that "I'm deceptively strong." The lady dance teacher observes that I get so focused on details, that I put too much intensity into certain aspects, and need to tone it down. He also wants me to work on having more presence with my body. So much to work on, and areas to grow into.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
Yes going with her was a great Idea. Wanting to drive herself? Well it sounds like she might have wanted to leave her "options". Open. Being there was the RIGHT thing for you to do. I can almost guarantee that she would NOT have come home if you were not there. As for her taking your arm off of her? Well remember our wives sometimes try to blame us for their issues. Deep down inside she may have felt that this was "their last night" and you went and ruined it. NOT that you should not have...but do you understand what I am trying to say. I feel weird giving YOU advise when my sitch is not so much better. It is kind of like a drug addict telling another drug addict how to quit. WE ARE GETTING THERE BUDDY… Remember there IS also a fine line between being there for our wives and giving them space. Yesterday when Son and I got home from vacation. We had bought my mom, MIL and wife presents. Son wanted to go bring MIL hers and wife said she would take him. I kind of wanted to go but I knew W was “uncomfortable” with our soon to be sleeping situation. I also knew that W would probably have a drink with her mom while over there. So I gave her that alone, get ready, have a drink to relax time and I stayed home. If your wife wants to go shopping by herself no problem or just go out for a ride or to see her GIRL friends that is great. But analyze each situation and if there is any chance of temptation…BE THERE for her and yourself. Got ta go fix MIL garage door opener and finish up some homework I did not get done during “vacation” Take care. P.S You really need to get out to California one of these days so we can have a beer. Doc
• P.S.S “They looked more like a couple than we did” REALLY? Or was this just YOUR self esteem, YOUR self worth, YOUR issue kicking in. FEEL GOOD ABOUT YOURSELF…He may have been dancing with her when you thought this but she came home to YOU…
And if I claim to be a wise man, well It surely means that I don't know
Doc, A recovering drug addict is helpful to another recovering drug addict, so don't hold back your advice.
It was the right thing to do to protect my M, and assist my W in maintaining boundaries, and showing my presence to the OP. I didn't have to say a word to either of them--my presence was enough of an influence.
My W has noticed that I too have become a late night dancer. I used to have all these rules about not going out late at night. I've decided that I need to have a presence and be a dance partner with my W. The reality is that if I let her have too much freedom, I'm communicating that she isn't enough of a priority to be with, and leave her vulnerable to temptation. I don't want to make the same mistakes.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
