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Originally Posted By: HDhusband
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I think wives do "owe it" [to have sex with their husbands] to some degree. It's an obligation by default, because no wife has the "right" to expect her husband to remain faithful by being celibate. And so if extramarital affairs are against their morals, the wife is directly "forcing" the family to split up. You can only say the wife does not owe it if she does not owe her family any effort to preserve the family.

I am leery of discourse about relationships that focuses on what each partner "owes" the other because it is often an excuse for not making hard choices and taking responsibility for them. A wise person once posted that the universe of things your wife owes you can be divided into two categories: those things a court would order her to give you if you divorced, and those things that she doesn't actually owe you. The question isn't whether your wife owes you sex; it's whether you owe it to yourself to be with someone who wants to have sex with you (for whatever reason). Phrasing it that way forces you to take responsibility for your choice to either remain in your marriage or to leave it. Your wife, of course, must take responsiblity for her own choices (and their consequences).

ssmguy, I gather you have decided, at least for now, that you get enough out of your marriage that it is worth staying in it despite the lack of sex. Your wife, for her part, has decided that she'd rather risk losing you than have sex with you. I don't see how either one of you is forcing the other to do anything. Of course, there is a sense in which she is "forcing" you to choose between having sex and remaining married to her; but how does it really benefit you to look at it that way?


"A wise person once posted that the universe of things your wife owes you can be divided into two categories: those things a court would order her to give you if you divorced, and those things that she doesn't actually owe you. The question isn't whether your wife owes you sex; it's whether you owe it to yourself to be with someone who wants to have sex with you (for whatever reason)."

This is the way to look at it.

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My H has ED and will not go to the doctor. He feels no desire. It isn't a mental block, but a physical thing. It is incredibly frustrating and hard to hear that the man that used to go crazy for me feels nothing. He does not even have morning erections. I understand it is hard for a man to seak treatment, but struggle to understand why he's done nothing.

I asked him if he preferred if I go have an affair. He responded that he wants me to do what makes me happy. SOB, what would make me happy is for him to go to the doctor, or both of us go to the doctor, and seak treatment. I even told him that if he sought treatment and it was unsuccessful that it didn't make him less than a man.

No dice. He can't go there physically or emotionally. In the meantime I sit here and wonder why what I thought we had was only my perception, or perhaps a story he's told himself that isn't true. I don't know which.

All I know is that if I had a sexual problem I would be at the doctor asking him to treat me. It hurts that it isn't important to him. It doesn't do a lot for my self confidence and makes me feel very vulnerable.


Me 45, H 46, S 23, M 26, Together 30, Bomb 6-2-08,
S 6-19-08; H left 12-29-08. H home 12-09, Still MLC in 2012!
Me- I have my big girl panties on. Bring it.

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Wifey,

You are in a very difficult & heartbreaking place. Please consider, however, that your H is likely depressed. Men who find their youthful virility disappearing generally do sink into a depression, and depression makes it almost impossible to to imagine that things could change, that a situation isn't hopeless and irreversible, or to force oneself to act when action is necessary.

Depression also makes it impossible to appreciate another person's point of view--don't imagine that he doesn't care about you, or is cruelly ignoring you. A depressed person can't deal with his own misery, let alone get far enough outside his head to comprehend his spouse's misery.

I know you think you would go to a doctor as soon as you know you had a sexual problem, and let's hope you would. However, if you were depressed, it's very unlikely you'd have the energy or perspective to do so.

Sorry, I don't have any answers for what you could do, other than talk to your doctor about the situation. Given that your self-confidence is slipping and your vulnerability is increasing, and there is a lurking danger that you will grow to resent the "SOB," it would probably be useful to get some counselling for yourself, so that you feel supported. Dealing with a depressed person who is now inhabiting the body of someone you loved is an incredibly difficult and painful job.

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Originally Posted By: The Wifey
My H has ED and will not go to the doctor. He feels no desire. It isn't a mental block, but a physical thing. It is incredibly frustrating and hard to hear that the man that used to go crazy for me feels nothing. He does not even have morning erections. I understand it is hard for a man to seak treatment, but struggle to understand why he's done nothing.

I asked him if he preferred if I go have an affair. He responded that he wants me to do what makes me happy. SOB, what would make me happy is for him to go to the doctor, or both of us go to the doctor, and seak treatment. I even told him that if he sought treatment and it was unsuccessful that it didn't make him less than a man.

No dice. He can't go there physically or emotionally. In the meantime I sit here and wonder why what I thought we had was only my perception, or perhaps a story he's told himself that isn't true. I don't know which.

All I know is that if I had a sexual problem I would be at the doctor asking him to treat me. It hurts that it isn't important to him. It doesn't do a lot for my self confidence and makes me feel very vulnerable.


My question is do you and how do you contribute to this situation?

I'm in a similar predicament with a lowering sex drive and was suffering ED.

What the difference was is my wife went from :

Showing me love, desire and attention through the way she looks at me, her actions, her body language, her tone of voice ( lovely and syrupy ), her intent, the fact that she protected me socially. I got sex and love just about whenever I wanted it, and if I did not initiate I was awaken in a variety of pleasureable ways. At this time i was fed with "love", with "being desired", and given "the benefit of the doubt".

This changed to:

A cantankerous and negative attitude, a dominant attitude and body language, tone of voice like a male "bill collector", telling me "it doesn't matter" with respect to the relationship, the fact she says "I don't think about you", and the fact she threw me under the bus socially. On top of this a greatly lowered sex rate and physical abuse. I've had sex 4 times in the last year, also our marriage is about the lowest priority in her life. At this time I was fed with "disdain", "hate", "lack of desire". Through repetition I was trained not to expect anything, and take what I'm given ( literally nothing ).

My question to you is there anything you can do to "feed" your husband the feelings he needs to feel like man.

Are you thinking about yourself and the fact that he's depressed is dragging you down?

It may be how he feels about himself. You as his wife can help this.

Also my question was do things just not work or they can be assisted?

In my case, it was an ED due to being treated like crap and not desired. If I was getting this from elsewhere I would not have been as affected. Instictially my thought is if I am given an abundance of love and desire things will work better.

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I think that you are getting some great advice by folks.

I insisted that my wife get a medical check up as her heath was/is important to me. While she fought it, she ultimately went to a doctor and that plus some other things helped rebuild our relationship.

One of the things I heard on a medical call in radio show was a doctor saying that 50% of the men over age 50 have some form of ED problem at one time or another. He was trying to explain the huge numbers of people taking ED medications like viagra etc. and how really huge a business it is.

Your husband at 42 seems a little on the young side, but there are lots of significant medical things that are often associated with ED that are life threatening. Specifically a lot of circulatory/heart disease issues can cause ED as well as things like type 2 diabetes. While you husband may not want to medically address the issue, he needs to as it could be life threatening.

As was also pointed out it can be fueled by the attitudes of a spouse and self image.

Challenging him by asking him if he would mind your having an affair, isn't the approach I would advise. He is obviously hurt on a very deep level. He needs to feel loved and get past his hurt/depression/anger and move on with living life to the fullest. I am sure that you want your partner back so that you can live a full life.

My heart goes out to you. Recognizing a problem is the first step in addressing it and changing your situation. Good luck to you.


>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
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I am so sorry to hear about your wife "tossing you under the bus socially." That kind of rejection and lack of affection has got to hurt on a really deep level. Hang in there.

I really suggest Glover's book NM MR NG and working on getting a life. It is all about finding true happiness for you and not living a life defined by women who you feel you must please.

I wish you the best of luck and happiness.


>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
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Young at Heart,

Its past that point now, because of course I realize every time I engage "it", "it" attempts to put me back in the same place.

You have to look forward, of course you want the other person to come out of it but thats wishing, they usually won't.

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Originally Posted By: DaddyLongShanks
Originally Posted By: The Wifey
My H has ED and will not go to the doctor. He feels no desire. It isn't a mental block, but a physical thing. It is incredibly frustrating and hard to hear that the man that used to go crazy for me feels nothing. He does not even have morning erections. I understand it is hard for a man to seak treatment, but struggle to understand why he's done nothing.

I asked him if he preferred if I go have an affair. He responded that he wants me to do what makes me happy. SOB, what would make me happy is for him to go to the doctor, or both of us go to the doctor, and seak treatment. I even told him that if he sought treatment and it was unsuccessful that it didn't make him less than a man.

No dice. He can't go there physically or emotionally. In the meantime I sit here and wonder why what I thought we had was only my perception, or perhaps a story he's told himself that isn't true. I don't know which.

All I know is that if I had a sexual problem I would be at the doctor asking him to treat me. It hurts that it isn't important to him. It doesn't do a lot for my self confidence and makes me feel very vulnerable.


My question is do you and how do you contribute to this situation?

I'm in a similar predicament with a lowering sex drive and was suffering ED.

What the difference was is my wife went from :

Showing me love, desire and attention through the way she looks at me, her actions, her body language, her tone of voice ( lovely and syrupy ), her intent, the fact that she protected me socially. I got sex and love just about whenever I wanted it, and if I did not initiate I was awaken in a variety of pleasureable ways. At this time i was fed with "love", with "being desired", and given "the benefit of the doubt".

This changed to:

A cantankerous and negative attitude, a dominant attitude and body language, tone of voice like a male "bill collector", telling me "it doesn't matter" with respect to the relationship, the fact she says "I don't think about you", and the fact she threw me under the bus socially. On top of this a greatly lowered sex rate and physical abuse. I've had sex 4 times in the last year, also our marriage is about the lowest priority in her life. At this time I was fed with "disdain", "hate", "lack of desire". Through repetition I was trained not to expect anything, and take what I'm given ( literally nothing ).

My question to you is there anything you can do to "feed" your husband the feelings he needs to feel like man.

Are you thinking about yourself and the fact that he's depressed is dragging you down?

It may be how he feels about himself. You as his wife can help this.

Also my question was do things just not work or they can be assisted?

In my case, it was an ED due to being treated like crap and not desired. If I was getting this from elsewhere I would not have been as affected. Instictially my thought is if I am given an abundance of love and desire things will work better.


I'm sure I've contributed lots of crap. I was just diagnosed as Adult ADD and I am reading how destructive this can be to a marriage. He may be depressed, but according to him he is "at peace" and has accepted what is rather than stress over what isn't.

I always thought I was very loving, sensitive, gentle, and plenty passionate and adventurous in the bedroom. I loved him as best I knew how, but never had a clue that there was something else that influenced how we related.

I do tell him he is still very manly to me. I do say I am worried about his health. I admit my contributions to our problems. Maybe someday things will change. I don't know. All I know is I love this man.


Me 45, H 46, S 23, M 26, Together 30, Bomb 6-2-08,
S 6-19-08; H left 12-29-08. H home 12-09, Still MLC in 2012!
Me- I have my big girl panties on. Bring it.

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The Wifey, you shouldn't assume it's certain that any of your husband's difficulties are your fault. You've gotten some good feedback here, so let me just add more of mine because I think people are all different in their constitution and life circumstances.

Though my wife went through a period of totally rejecting me sexually and personally, it didn't lead to clinical depression or ED on my part. Of course, my response could be taken in a negative way too, which my wife did for a while -- that I'm insensitive to her. I just kept having a robust interest in sex no matter how much my wife rejected me. Of course, I stopped trying to be intimate with her, but that didn't stop my interests which just went elsewhere instead.

If my wife were suddenly, as you describe yourself "loving, sensitive, gentle, plenty passionate, and adventurous in the bedroom", I'd be having lots of sex with my wife again, no matter what the past. Something about the fun and exciting aspects of sex make me quickly forget any bad stuff.

You sound fine to me. I think your husband is having problems. Show him love. But get him to a doctor, even if you have to scare him a bit. Tell him about the recent findings that ED can be an early indicator of preventable cardiovascular problems, and have nothing to do with him being a "man" or not. Why if you look around on some of these forums, you will see that there are even some 20-something men who are otherwise in good health who are dealing with ED.

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So, I've waded through this thread and I'm not sure that I have much to add.

It seems to me you are married to a person that has developed a sexual aversion. I don't think any behavior modification on your part will change that. She dislikes sex to the extent that she knows her behavior compromises her marriage, but she just cannot (and I think it is probably "cannot" and not "won't" change her behavior). She isn't doing it to hurt you or to make you insane. It is just something she cannot bring herself to do.

The good news is you have choices. 1) keep living the same way for the other benefits your marriage provides and take care of yourself. If you do this though drop the begging for the occasional HJ . . . she just doesn't want to do it and it is kind of creepy to me somehow; 2) stay married and get a mistress or go to a prostitute. A horrible decision for many reasons I think, but it is a possibility. As you stated some people live this way; 3) divorce and find a woman that doesn't have a sexual aversion and enjoy a real sex life.

I think the worse choice would be to stay married and to keep pressuring your wife for sex that you know she doesn't want. If you stay married to her, I think at this point (after 15 years of rejection) you should probably just let the sex thing go. You have a wonderful friend and co-parent to your children. Perhaps that is enough.

Finally, no one owes anyone else sex. Even in a marriage. There are consequences for forcing your spouse to endure celibacy, but it is still a choice that every human should have the right to exercise.




I'm a man . . .
But I can change . . .
If I have to . . .
I guess . . .

The Man's Prayer - Red Green
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