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Mila,

Sorry to hear about happened today, sounds like a bad day, not fun, and frustrating...

Try to remember, this too will pass, you know it will. Really!

I take back what I said about the Dude ranch. Didn't realize that just you and D going together was an option. I think that sounds really fun for you 2. smile

- SCh

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M&H - I don't know what would have happened if I told him "I don't have to take the abuse" and walked out...that's not me, I really hate to be confrontational like that. He would have been peed off at me, thinking that he is right & I'm out to lunch.

He is so riddled with guilt that anything I say reminds him of it, he sees it as an attack and he directs his anger at me to deflect the guilt from himself...if that makes any sense.

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Boys, alcohol, and animals
Are you trying to scare me or warn me...or both LOL

CW - I think that he is having a though time with himself...I don't think he likes what he sees in the mirror much.

Twink - thank you for your support on "D alone" subject

Mermaid and SCH - Thanks for your support smile It was a sh**** day, but hopefully I've learned something from it. The Dude ranch outcome brightened my day a bit. He dug a hole for himself with that one. He only gave me two options. He didn't offer option 3 - lets all go. I would probably go for that one...his loss


M53 H54 D17
M33Y T38Y
Bomb OW 09/09
OUT 10/09 BACK 11/09 OUT 01/10
WANTS TO R 04/10 BACK with OW 05/10
Wants to Reconcile 05/11 I said NO
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Mila,

The confrontation you had with your husband in the coffeeshop tells you exactly where he is...still deep in the tunnel

The R talk was a mistake, but on the other hand, his selfishness and selfish, self-serving comments had MY jaw dropping, although I remember days like those, when nothing I said was right.

Where does he get off telling you to "get over it"? HE's the one whose committing adultery, NOT you!

I know this is MLC fog, but it always amazes me the stupid things they say in the name of "I'm right, you're wrong"..when THEY are the ones who's WRONG.

As long as you keep allowing things to get out of control like that, it will continue to feed his justification for what he's doing.

He's NOT liking it that you're not going along with what he's doing, and so, he turned on you, punishing you emotionally for that.

HE'S WRONG for ALL of this, hands down. He KNOWS he's getting to you, and was trying to make you back down from your stand, so he can get what he wants..OW AND YOU..and if that were to happen, he could "play" the both of you for as long as he wants to.

He is definitely having a tough time, considering how he looked when you met him...the battle within is a rough one when it involves the conscience.

Counseling will NOT work as long as OW is in the picture, that would be a losing proposition.

It IS staggering the difference you've seen.

He was and is actually expecting you to go the SAME route you played years ago when he had the first affair, because he actually got away with it back then.

When you changed the tapes, and didn't react the way he expected you to, it sent him right off the deep end, and he NEEDS to go that way....he NEEDS to know he could lose you in this game he's playing with people's lives.

He also needs to see this is not going to easy for him this time around...and I think he got a glimpse of that in you.

It is also possible this confrontation has him thinking right now about whether this is going to worth losing you forever.

He's not dumb; he's in MLC, but not stupid....he's foggy, but STILL trying to get his way and keep his toy, like a child who says "mine!".

Toughen up, Mila, things may just get worse before they MIGHT get better...you still have to deal with him because of the business, and LEARN to face things head-on in spite of the fear you feel.

I'm not getting any real insight on this except this confrontation was a necessary one, and time will tell the tale once again.

Apparently, he had to be told ONE MORE TIME that OW's presence was not acceptable to you. And see that you meant it.

He doesn't need to be told again. He knew anyway, but was pushing the limits and went past them with you...his selfishness knows NO bounds.

With all the strength you have within you, DETACH from his drama, Mila, detach from HIM, disconnect, and put your personal feelings aside...or you will head straight toward a nervous breakdown.


I feel for you, truly I do.

I'm sorry you had to endure that, but I went through the SAME thing when I confronted my husband when he had his OW...he lied to me, though, yet got very hostile to put it mildly.

On the other hand, I was the opposite of you and from a confrontational point of view still am. I WILL confront when I see a clear wrong that's done toward me, taking steps to protect myself.

The reason going dark/dim was advised was because he was cycling with the OW...coming back to you, going back to her when she whistled..in essence, "cake eating"..and that cannot be.

My thoughts are/were if you go back, this could start right up again in the SAME cycle you're trying to break.

Removing yourself as a safety net is something that is needed in order to begin to force his hand in this.

Allowing him to go back and forth would, in time, INCREASE his disrespect for you, he would see you as "weak", and continue to walk all over you anytime he felt like it.

Again, IMHO, he has some growing up to do, and sometimes the LBS is called upon to do certain things at certain times in order to break cycles such as these.

You still remember what happened so long ago..if you let this go this time, it will continue cycling, while you stand by helplessly wondering what is happening, while your husband never faces the weakness within himself that keeps him going to another woman to get his "needs" met.

He is weak and needs help to break this...don't give up, not enough time has passed as yet, and he has not had the necessary time to "miss" you.

With him not having taken his responsibility for his half of the business, it may very well fall to you to take up his slack.

When you go on your trip to the Dude ranch, do not contact him at all, unless it is an emergency..

I need some sleep now. smile

Talk later.


Remember, as each person is different, every MLC/Transition is different..what works for one may not work for another. Most of the time it is trial and error for ALL involved.
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Mila,

I am sorry to see the latest developments. It was something I was worried about honestly. Things had started to progress too fast in my opinion.

You know what to do.....Now start grind your teeth and start up again. I believe in you...we all do.....Do you believe in yourself?


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I agree, Lost, I was worried also. I'm sorry to say that, I was being careful not to be the only dissenter. I think that Mila's H is going to do this several times, and each time he scares himself. It has nothing to do with you, Mila, it has to do with his own feelings. You know that.

Like me, you come on here and people give you advice and you don't really need it. You sometimes need an outside set of eyes to look at your sitch, but mostly you need support.

You're so strong and you know what is going on. Your intuition is so very strong. Keep at it, you are your own best friend right now.

Sorry, not trying to scare you about your D, just saying don't be surprised if. smile I was a good girl, a straight A student, but I still did some crazy things - took some window panes one night with a friend and when we saw a police car at 2 am, we hid under a blanket and pretended to be rocks. Lord knows why he didn't stop us... it would have been ALL over if he had.

She sounds like a lovely girl though and she's trying for some independence. It's a delicate balance for sure.


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Sorry to hear the day you had yesterday.

Your H really needs to understand what it would be like to lose you. BTW that would be a wonderful woman he would be losing.

As far as your daughter goes. That's a tough one. You know her better than anyone. My thought is when do you allow them independence? These are teaching times and though she may make mistakes, she has an opportunity to learn how to be independent with your guidance. You set firm boundaries and make sure she pays the consequences if those boundaries are crossed. Sound familiar?

Assuming your D is going to college, would you want her to learn how to be independent from her peers?

Those are just my thoughts,not right or wrong.

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Thank you HB, you are right on with your take on H behaviour.

Judging from yesterday, there is no doubt that WH is still far away bouncing around in a stormy sea. For a while I thought that he was getting closer to finding his way to the lighthouse but the sea took him away again.

I'm sorry that I got sucked into a no-win R conversation, that was a weakness on my part and I have to really work on this...he is a selfish manipulator, controller and button pusher right now, I can't let him get to me. Time to go back to the drawing board and work on that.

He feels terrible about what he is doing and by making me the bad guy it alleviates his guilt...I'm guessing.

The other thing that is contributing to his anger is me pulling away, he was very accusingly pointing out yesterday that by not responding to his e-mails I'm being unreasonable and trying to punish him, while he is trying to "help me" trough this and be my friend. I'm the one doing wrong to him. Me "being dark/dim" seems to just make him angry at me so far. Is that just his attempt to have me do what he wants me to? ....is he missing his cake-eating...I'm I messing up his fantasy of having me and her? Or is he actually afraid that he may be loosing me and is trying to control me with his anger...
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He's NOT liking it that you're not going along with what he's doing, and so, he turned on you, punishing you emotionally for that

HB - it sure felt like it yesterday.
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I WILL confront when I see a clear wrong that's done toward me, taking steps to protect myself

I was defending myself yesterday...but it just escalated the confrontation. I was validating also...I must have said 20 times "I'm sorry that you feel that way"

Anyway...yesterday showed me where I need to be right now...as detached as possible and as dim as I can.

Since the meeting he contacted me wanting to see me because he had some business papers to give me...I said just put it in the mail box. Silence from him for a moment and then he said OK. He obviously wanted to see me, maybe he feels bad about how he was in the meeting.

Yesterday I also mentioned that I will have to get an upgrade for my accounting software soon. This morning I received an e-mail asking if he can come over and tune-up my computer and install that software (I wasn't planning to get it until next month). I didn't reply yet...I will, but I'll just put him off.

HB - you were posting at almost 3am my time....were you pulling an all-nigther? Hope you got some sleep smile


M53 H54 D17
M33Y T38Y
Bomb OW 09/09
OUT 10/09 BACK 11/09 OUT 01/10
WANTS TO R 04/10 BACK with OW 05/10
Wants to Reconcile 05/11 I said NO
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Mila, Forgive me for being distrustful, lol, but I'd make sure of what kind of software he was installing. Is this the same computer you post here with?

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I would agree with SA. H is NOT the person you used to know right now. Trusting him could be self-defeating right now.

Mila, can I just say that you are trying very hard and seem to be doing a fine job. But it seems to me that as long as your H feels you are not "gone" you won't see him do anything. That coupled with him needing to learn some things, may just short circuit the process. There are no shortcuts and no guarantees where you are headed.
When you focus on you, you are doing several things at once: working on you. The idea is that you should love yourself so much that you have much left over. You have so much that you need somebody to share it with. That somebody may be your H. Your H has a lot of work ahead of him it sounds like, and he is trying to take a shortcut to avoid it. He needs to learn a lot. You may have some things to deal with as well that you have not yet discovered. You are trying to do it in the bounds of your marriage while H is not. I applaud that. You are awesome for doing that. Now that you have the oppty to do that, take the time to get those things identified and changed. To the exclusion of H. He may yet lose you, but it would be because he tried very hard to get rid of you and everything else in his life that he previously knew. That may be part of his process - burn it to the ground and then rebuild. A do-over so to speak. Whatever he is doing, he needs to see it through and he is willing to take the chance of losing you.
Until you are ready to move on, H won't have to make a choice. You know that already and are trying to leave the opportunity for him to come home. My take from reading your posts is that you should work on you to the exclusion of him. If he is going to come home and recommit to the marriage, he'll do it after he is done with his process and after you have started down the path of moving on.
Do it for you. Make it real. Make it count. Leave the door open, but don't watch it. Be careful whom you speak to about your feelings and opinions. That's part of leaving the door open. smile

Do things for you. Don't wait. Insanity, anger and depression are not fun places to be and they will weaken you and allow you to get sucked in when you should not.

Keep up the good work!

AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
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"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
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LFW & M&H - When he wanted to R last month I was totally surprised...it was so unexpected...I thought that after they'd "won" the affair would go on for a while...it had to run its course. They didn't even last 2 months..so I was surprised...but I was also hoping that it was the end...It wasn't frown

M&H & D Money - I also did some crazy things when I was D's age, but she has a good (careful) head on her shoulders, she is also an A student but she does like to socialize. She has a steady boyfriend from a family that really cares, he is not into stupid things and he is very protective of her. If I decide to go I will make then both responsible (because they spend all free time together) and accountable and I'll let his parents know as well (they just live around the corner from us). I will also talk to my nosy but nice neighbor to keep an eye on things....he knows all the comings and goings in the neighborhood LOL.

And if she screws up, she knows there will be consequences.

D - thank you for your nice words smile

SA - I'll be watching over his shoulder smile


M53 H54 D17
M33Y T38Y
Bomb OW 09/09
OUT 10/09 BACK 11/09 OUT 01/10
WANTS TO R 04/10 BACK with OW 05/10
Wants to Reconcile 05/11 I said NO
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