Longtime coming...

[Awoken]

I've been reading the forums for the past two weeks, since my wife dropped the bomb. I've been trying to get a grip, GAL, and DB as best as a I can.

As painful as everything is, I'm glad that my wife has awakened me to some fundamental truths about our relationship that we both have been avoiding for a very long time.

It's been a difficult 16 years. There have been symptoms of a deep problem in our M the entire time and I'm deeply ashamed that I've had my head in the sand this entire time. I think we have both been focused on trying to being great parents.

1) the bomb
I think I handled this ok, just by instinct, and maybe because we both knew there were problems with the M. From reading here, I think it was a typical speech including ILYBINILWY. She says the last 16 years have been a hell. My main reaction was to say how surprised I was, and that I was so very sorry that she was in so much pain and that I was the cause of it all. When I asked her what happened to make her tell me, she said that she had made her mind up 4 months ago to leave me in four years when our son graduated high school, but realized that night that she couldn't last that long. My only argument was that that I thought it was unfair, because I have confronted her several times over the past five years about her emotional detachment and she has always said it was just her depression and it had nothing to do with me, and I was a "great husband" and she didn't deserve me. I've been sticking by her waiting for things to improve. Or I was kidding myself. She confesses that she has been hiding her drinking from me, and the she has been drinking herself to sleep for years to handle her pain. We ended that nights conversation with me saying I wanted to work on the M, but I would cooperate with her, and her saying she needed time to "find herself" and that "she doesn't know what she wants".

[SillyOldBear]

WOW . . . that's bad stuff.

I'm no expert, so let me just say something a little bit encouraging: about two years ago, I gave my wife an ultimatum. I did not actually walk away, but I told her I would if we didn't make changes. I realize that's different from the determination to walk out, but my point is that we made a few big changes in our life, and although our marriage isn't perfect, we're happy being married to each other and leaving never crosses my mind anymore.

It can be done. Decide what you want and be single-minded about it.

[Awoken]

2) possible OM
So, after night of the bomb, I get suspicious and I check the cell phone and credit card records. We've always shared everything with no secrets. we've shared the same passwords. She offers one plausible denial, but is over the top defensive and scared that I'll come to her work and embarrass her (I've never done such a thing). I later find a suggestive email from suspect OM; not definitely not work-related. I confronted W with it, and she feigns anger at the OM, and says it's inappropriate and she will tell him to stop. I come to my senses and decide there must be at least and EA if not a PA, and I decide to stop spying or discussing it with her at all. W still keeps asking me about it, saying she is scared that there will be a PI following her or something.

I'm not sure if I need to resolve this or not. I'm very confused at this point. There are so many details, but I'm trying to be concise. I'll likely just keep making posts.

[Awoken]

Thanks SillyOldBear; It's been two weeks, and so much has happened that I don't know whats relevant. I kinda started at the beginning.
I'm having a hard time DB'ing and deciding that just reading the posts here wasn't enough.

Right now, I'm pretty sure that my W is determined to leave, but doesn't want to file divorce yet for a couple of reasons.

First, a couple of days after the bomb, she confronted me again about being worried about me spying. Most of the time was spent with me listening to her, and telling her that I had a new understanding of my failures. She was basically tearing me apart, saying the past 16 years had been a living hell, and I was telling her that I would cooperate with her, but I was willing to work on the M. Specifically because even if it ended in D, we would still be better off in the long run, and we would still have a relationship because of the kids no matter what. Of course, I desperately want her to stay, and she probably can feel that. but I was doing my DB best.
Here's the worst part, it went on until 4am. D16 (now D17 today) had snuck downstairs and hid behind the door and listened to a least an hour of it. In the morning she told W she was mad at her because "she didn't want to try".

Second, she's now suggested that I move out and get an apartment. I've refused. I told her I would be happy to help her find one for herself and help her move. She was non-responsive. sigh.

Third, she provides our health care at her work. It's cheaper for the family than what is provided at mine. It's time for us to pick a new provider, and she's suggesting that I get my own.

[karen43]

She confesses that she has been hiding her drinking from me, and the she has been drinking herself to sleep for years to handle her pain. We ended that nights conversation with me saying I wanted to work on the M, but I would cooperate with her, and her saying she needed time to "find herself" and that "she doesn't know what she wants".

Sounds like your W is an alcoholic, and blaming you for many (most, all?) of her problems. And prob. good chance of an EA/PA. I do think addictive personalities like your W are more prone to affairs.

I do not believe in any way that you are responsible for her alcoholism. She is responsible for that. Have you talked to her about AA? I don't think it is possible to have a good or healthy marriage when one is an active alcoholic. Maybe Al-anon for you?

Good for you on not moving out. You shouldn't. Your W is the one that should be having consequences for her actions. You don't mention kids; do you have them?

[Awoken]

She confesses that she has been hiding her drinking from me, and the she has been drinking herself to sleep for years to handle her pain. We ended that nights conversation with me saying I wanted to work on the M, but I would cooperate with her, and her saying she needed time to "find herself" and that "she doesn't know what she wants".

Sounds like your W is an alcoholic, and blaming you for many (most, all?) of her problems. And prob. good chance of an EA/PA. I do think addictive personalities like your W are more prone to affairs.

I do not believe in any way that you are responsible for her alcoholism. She is responsible for that. Have you talked to her about AA? I don't think it is possible to have a good or healthy marriage when one is an active alcoholic. Maybe Al-anon for you?

Good for you on not moving out. You shouldn't. Your W is the one that should be having consequences for her actions. You don't mention kids; do you have them?

I think al-anon is a good step for me. Thanks.
I listed my children in my signature: D17 (turned 17 today), and S13.

I just finished talking with W; I managed to leave the conversation first, but I'm sure I let it go on much to long. It started because she wanted to talk about D17's schedule on wednesday. Then she told me all about her new found love of work. I stood there and listened closely, kept eye contact. But overall felt like a floormat. I know I'm not doing this right.

Towards the end, I told I was glad she had found some happiness and I was actually glad that she had woke both of us up to what was going on in our M. She thanked me, and then asked if I still wanted her and the kids to go along with me on our thanksgiving trip. We had planned it several months ago. I asserted that I wanted to spend thanksgiving with my children, but she could do whatever she wanted.

Here's a point to your questions: somehow, by the end I managed to bring up her drinking (she had a drink in hand), and she came out and said that she had been open with our MC about it, and was trying to cut back. sigh. We are currently meeting with MC individually.

[karen43]

Here's a point to your questions: somehow, by the end I managed to bring up her drinking (she had a drink in hand), and she came out and said that she had been open with our MC about it, and was trying to cut back. sigh. We are currently meeting with MC individually.

What was the MC's response to her "cut back" remark? Does the MC know what you've told about her years of secret drinking? I don't think you will have a healthy or happy marriage until she deals with her drinking issues. I also don't think that is a healthy environment for your kids either. If she is not willing to address her issues, have you thought about dealing with this yourself?

[Awoken]

Here's a point to your questions: somehow, by the end I managed to bring up her drinking (she had a drink in hand), and she came out and said that she had been open with our MC about it, and was trying to cut back. sigh. We are currently meeting with MC individually.

What was the MC's response to her "cut back" remark? Does the MC know what you've told about her years of secret drinking? I don't think you will have a healthy or happy marriage until she deals with her drinking issues. I also don't think that is a healthy environment for your kids either. If she is not willing to address her issues, have you thought about dealing with this yourself?

I meet with the MC tomorrow, but I don't think she'll discuss what my wife said or did not say. Right now my wife feels empowered and "alive like never before". I don't think she'll consider a more serious course. I myself don't drink at all. Maybe a glass of wine once every 3-6 months. This has been building, and I still feel ashamed that I've not been paying attention to this. I clearly have fault here.

It not that I'm trying to hold back information, there's just so much to tell. W has also been struggling with bi-polar most of her life. She uses the drinking to self-medicate. The same time she revealed the hiding of the drinking, she revealed that she had stopped her medication 6 months ago. She's always resisted any consistent treatment for anything. Our agreement was that we would discuss any changes in medication, and I've avoided pushing her on discussing trying to avoid provocation. But maybe this is a cop-out and I just got tired. I do feel neglectful.

Overall, the depth of her drinking has been pretty well hidden from me until two years ago. It got pretty bad, and I and D17 (15 then) confronted her and she appeared to make a big change. I now know that the change was to conceal it.

I'm sure I'm giving a confusing story here, I'm just not really sure how to sort it all out. I posted something over in WAW as well hoping to get some input there.

[karen43]

It sounds like she is manic. I know bipolar is one of the illnesses that requires medication to keep under control. I don't know if your MC will discuss what your W told her, but I do think you should discuss this stuff with your MC; the drinking, the hiding of her drinking, the lack of taking bipolar meds, etc.

Alcoholism is a disease from what I understand, your blaming yourself or saying you feel neglectful is like someone blaming themselves for their W's physical illness. I think to a large extent, your W has to acknowledge and deal with her alcoholism; not much you can do to solve what is her problem. Detaching and focusing on yourself and your kids is something you can work on. Have you discussed this stuff with your MC and discussed any possible options or ways of dealing with this?

[Awoken]

It sounds like she is manic. I know bipolar is one of the illnesses that requires medication to keep under control. I don't know if your MC will discuss what your W told her, but I do think you should discuss this stuff with your MC; the drinking, the hiding of her drinking, the lack of taking bipolar meds, etc.

Alcoholism is a disease from what I understand, your blaming yourself or saying you feel neglectful is like someone blaming themselves for their W's physical illness. I think to a large extent, your W has to acknowledge and deal with her alcoholism; not much you can do to solve what is her problem. Detaching and focusing on yourself and your kids is something you can work on. Have you discussed this stuff with your MC and discussed any possible options or ways of dealing with this?

We did discuss it in detail last week. I was doing pretty well that particular day; really focused on GAL and trying to 180. MC studied with MWD, although W doesn't know about DB. In fact the next day W told me that I had shocked her with my behavior and she was just waiting for another few weeks to go by and me to revert to my old ways. She's managed to pull me into a few R talks, and I think I've been messing up.

She seems manic to me. but I'm worried that I'm clinging to that hope since it means she'll eventually come back down.