? for people who have gone to Retrouvaille

[Sara]

I'm disappointed, but I can understand that he feels like it was sprung on him. And he did immediately agree to go to the one in October....

Wow! This is huge progress! October is just around the corner. You did good.

[tryingtilDorR]

Just be aware that he may not feel like going then either but try to get him there. This is a great program but it isn't a guarantee. Sara made a great point - it can't help if you don't go.

It didn't do a lot for us because my wife was heavily involved in an EA when we went and I have since learned through getting access to phone records that the A never skipped a beat while we attended the weekend and post sessions. In fact - it intensified partly due to the fact that the OM stepped up his pursuit during that time from what I can tell.

Therefore there can be things outside of your control, but if both partners have an open mind it can work wonders which you will hear from the presenting couples when they talk about their situations.

Learning how to communicate better is a big lesson you take away, and they also effectively get the point home about how a marraige is something to be cherished and not thrown out the window just because things aren't going well.

[InPassing]

Well, he won't go to the retro this weekend.
He didn't like feeling like it was 'sprung' on him.

I talked with one of the local retro people and she suggested that we could go to the Portland one in October if the timing for this one really was the problem for my H.
...
I asked him if he would have agreed to go with 3 weeks notice and he said yes. So, then I suggested the one in mid-october in Portland and he agreed to go.

To quote Wimpy...
"I will gladly pay you tuesday for a hamburger today".

If he actually goes, I will be astounded.
Bottom line is, he isnt going, because he Doesnt Want To Do Any Work on your Relationship.

You said his decision on this was going to be the deciding factor for you to pick something.
But once again, you've let him off the hook?

Bet you dollars to donuts he'll find an excuse for october.
There are only two questions left:

1. What are you going to do when he doesnt go?
2. Are you actually going to follow through on whatever you decide to do this time?

[Trixi]

All good points, IP. And, yes, I thought the same thing about it just being a stall tactic.

Bottom line is, he isnt going, because he Doesnt Want To Do Any Work on your Relationship.

True.

I am hoping retro will stir something in him.

To answer the questions:
1: If he doesn't go, I'm going to "go Gucci" for up to 3 months.
2: Tough love from you- I like it. And in response--I am going to need TONS of support from people to stay strong.

I am weak when it comes to him.

And I wish I could argue, but I too will be astounded if he goes.

[Trixi]

I'm cautiously optimistic.....

Last night we went to dinner and on the way I asked if he had talked with the gal that does registration for Retro. He said no, did you? I said I had and that she is just going to ask a few questions like "Are you willing to go?" "Is there abuse?" "Are there any 3rd parties?" etc.... He was like "okay." He didn't grimace or make faces or sigh or anything that would indicate he wasn't planning on going.

The gal called me today to say that they had spoken and that I should go ahead and send in the deposit. His parting words to her were "We'll be there."

Of course, there's still 3 weeks to go.

He also surprised me by suggesting we go camping this weekend. Just a short trip as it is the maiden voyage of the 40 year old trailer we've been working on.

OTOH- my friend wanted to see a pic of H's boat and so I went on FB and pulled up the photos. UGH! Pics of him and 2 girls in bikinis on the boat. (There were 2 other guys on the boat, too.) But one of the two has a GF and she wasn't one of the bikini girls. I have to say-- there is nothing that is incriminating. His guy friend was taking the shots and posted a link to A TON of them. (I only found them because my H was "tagged".) The pic where he is closest to one of the girls is no more damning than if I leaned in with a girlfriend to raise a toast to the camera.

The thing that irked me, though, is that I'm not part of the fun. That hurts. I figure it will come up in retro, so I am just leaving it be, for now.

[Trixi]

Leaving for retro tomorrow at 2pm. It's gonna be a long drive (about 5 hours).

H is really nervous about going since he "doesn't even know what he wants" but he will go with an open mind.

For myself, I am feeling nervous, too. I am sort of stuck between a rock and a hard place. I don't want a divorce, but I know that putting our marriage back together again is going to take a ton of work and frankly, I am just tired. So, even though I would say that it looks like my H is the "presenting patient", I am also in need of a 'reason' to not throw in the towel.

I was reading a link that someone posted for SpyBunny. It was Stosny talking about how traditional marriage counseling won't help when someone is an abuser. One of the comments made was that the abuser blames the victim when they feel guilty. The other night my H says "You're like a saint and it's at my expense." I said "do you mean that because I am "too nice" that you aren't being forced to grow and step up to the plate?" and he said "No. I mean that you're so nice and it makes me feel guilty; it's at my expense that you're so nice." and then he followed up with "Well, maybe I *should* feel guilty." Uh, yeah.

I know I shouldn't have 'expectations', but I feel like MC is useless (oh, if only I had the $ and time to get educated to be a MC- I would do it SO differently...)and this is my "Hail Mary". I'm not getting any younger....

[Lotus]

Have a good weekend. I will be thinking about you. You won't know what the results are until you are done.

[Trixi]

That was one helluva long weekend.

We had to go to the neighboring state's session, and the 4 hour drive Friday night took over 7 due to 5(!) different accidents all the way down the I-5 corridor. The traffic lady said it was the worst day she has ever had to report on.

So, we make it there exhausted; we missed the first part of the session, but got caught up.

The next morning, we missed a wake up knock and because of this, missed breakfast. I got the dining room gal to go round up some bacon and we wolfed that down w/some yogurt. My H was VERY unhappy. VERY! It did not set a good tone for the day.

I'm not going to lie; the weekend is draining. But, I think it has something to offer that is nothing short of miraculous. If my H and I make it thru this, I would definitely want to be involved in retro somehow. The presenting couples willingness to share was really quite awesome and there were many MANY couples there that this weekend had definitely helped them turn a corner.

Honestly, I do feel like a bit of a failure that my H didn't "come to his senses" or get deeply touched. But given his indifference and how he is keeping me pushed away, I guess it's not surprising. I feel a bit like "Why am I not 'good enough' to fight for?" One of the men attending asked how I was on the way down to lunch and I said I was hanging in there and he said 'yeah, this is a tough weekend. and it takes two to make it work..' and I got really choked up and agreed and he stopped on the stairs and looked directly at me and said "He came this weekend. Remember that. He did show up." But what was discouraging for me is that the couples we spoke to, so many of the men had a light in their eyes, and hope and enthusiasm and they said they were really enjoying what they were learning. My H on the other hand, would write that he was sorry that he was being lazy in his writings; that he was tired; that he didn't like doing it; he wanted to smoke, etc. I felt shortchanged. Not always, but sometimes.

Without really explaining how the program works, I think that he got off track several times and would toss in stuff about "I don't know about the future" "I need to find a way to be enthusiastic". It was really not appropriate for the structure presented and I wish we would have gone to the presenters for some assistance.

At the end, he basically said he knew he needed to make up his mind one way or the other ("right or wrong") and stick with it. He said that he is ashamed of how he treats me; but he never apologized fully. In fact, when I pointed out that he doesn't ever say he is sorry, he said "Well, I am sorry, but I am not ready to ask for your forgiveness." It confuses me that he knows he is treating me poorly, knows what he needs to do to make it better, but instead of doing *those* things, his solution is to just get rid of me.

So, at first (near the end of the weekend) we agreed that he needed to make up his mind and I needed to demand that he treat me with respect. And this decision needed to happen REALLY soon. (Like within a couple weeks; and during that two weeks I wasn't going to see him.)Then we attended more sessions and talked to the presenters; so now the plan is that he NOT make up his mind until AFTER we do the post sessions. We agreed to our dialoguing this week and we do plan to go to the post sessions and he actually stayed over last night. (Lately he has been leaving "after" by saying that he has so much to do the next day he wants to go home. So, to stay over on a work night was actually a big deal.)

I don't know what to think/feel. I am afraid to really open up to him because I am waiting for the other shoe to fall, but then I know if I want there to be a possibility of reconciliation, I am going to have to take that risk. He basically asked me to play hard to get, and now we are going to spend the next 6 weeks trying to be more intimate. I feel torn. I so wish we would have gone when we still lived together; or even last year. But now we've become so accustomed to living apart. For a long time, (even when living together) we were living as 'married singles' and now, living apart,that is even worse.

So, for those that wonder about retro, I think it's a great program. Might have just been too late to save my marriage.

[JCJ]

Hi Trixi,

Wow, it sounds like you handled yourself really well. I think that showed such strength. It sounds like a really interesting weekend. It seems like it is the general trend, as I have observed, that WAH's don't give much away in terms of feelings but it doesn't mean he isn't feeling or thinking, it just happens more internally.

[Trixi]

Wow, it sounds like you handled yourself really well. I think that showed such strength.

LOL- well, what I didn't elaborate on was that I became a TOTAL mess on Saturday. And I mean a MESS. I would just sit and cry during the presentations. (Not noisily, just tears streaming down my face.) I was feel VERY discouraged because I felt like my H wasn't playing fair and I was stuck in a downward spiral that I couldn't pull out of. My H was getting REALLY overwhelmed and I judged him to be acting a little bit spoiled and like a baby and I felt angry that he wouldn't just participate like he "should". Really, I think that sleep deprivation, a fricking long-ass drive and then being hungry had really hindered our ability to cope. They did spontaneously give us a 20 minute break and my H and I went and took a quick nap which REALLY helped.

I will say my H will sometimes appear to not "get" something and then he will think about it and end up "agreeing". When we were in the "hurry up and make up your mind"-mode, he had requested that he have some time to really think and process the weekend; and then added, "besides, we still have more to do today, we don't know how it will turn out." I think he tossed that in because he could see I was shutting down/giving up.

I am encouraged that he is open to doing our homework and he was actually trying to think of easier ways for us to get to the post sessions. So, that's something I guess.