Im on this forum for my own issues but I notice others pain. Once, I had an affair; when we were 12 years into our marriage. I married at 18 years old to my ONLY LOVE and ONLY BOYFRIEND. we had three chilren.
did we recover? um well 4 years later he walked out so... even tho I thought we'd worked thru it, probably not. I think even HE thought so at the time. WARNING: this takes a lot to get over and much more than a willingness of wife to make it better. this stuff FESTERS. be careful. once the dust blows down and wife is sorry, amazing how ANGRY you'll get. and I betcha wont tell her. so WORK on yourself after.
What I am here to do tho, is honestly answer your questions about it if you have any. If you want to know what its like, what goes thru her mind, how it feels, how the guilt is, and what works to MAKE IT END... I pretty much can tell you all that stuff.
I can also try to explain to you the detachment of wife, and the fact she doesnt actually think you NOTICE THAT MUCH (trust me). Women really fool themselves about this, thinking they're doing a pretty good job hiding their detachment quite well! I thought i was an amazing liar. WOW. FAIL. no i wasnt.
I can explain the drug of the OM, tricks the OM will employ to keep your wife interested and coming back for more AND I can tell you what snapped ME out of my affair. every sitch is completely different, but I wanted to given an honest viewpoint from one whose walked in those shoes, to any itnerested.
FACT: if you cheat, you will pay for it later on. There is no ifs or buts or 'maybes'. you will pay, pay, and then pay some more. you will pay in guilt, you will pay in shame, you will pay in a lack of self respect; you will lose status in every aspect of your life. I try a lot now, to let people considering straying, to understand these things. Hiding an affair is ridiculous. in the end every single person knows including your family, parents, and kids. but, this is something HARD LEARNED, and no one wants to ADMIT they learnt the hard way so no one actually gets TOLD by someone who IT HAPPENED TO. its a pity bc the more people who open up about this the more healing there will be
im tellin
When you're down to nothing, God is up to something.
Hi FF, Thank you for posting here, you information and insight would be very interesting to hear.
WARNING: this takes a lot to get over and much more than a willingness of wife to make it better. this stuff FESTERS. be careful. once the dust blows down and wife is sorry, amazing how ANGRY you'll get. and I betcha wont tell her. so WORK on yourself after.
Is it something you can TOTALLY get over as my W is involved with OM, we are divorcing and she is totally focused at the moment. No reconcilliation is possible at the moment.
What I am here to do tho, is honestly answer your questions about it if you have any. If you want to know what its like, what goes thru her mind, how it feels, how the guilt is, and what works to MAKE IT END... I pretty much can tell you all that stuff.
How does a Walk Away Wife feel, goes through her mind, guilt, and most importantly to MAKE IT END
I can also try to explain to you the detachment of wife, and the fact she doesnt actually think you NOTICE THAT MUCH (trust me). Women really fool themselves about this, thinking they're doing a pretty good job hiding their detachment quite well! I thought i was an amazing liar. WOW. FAIL. no i wasnt.
What do you mean by a wife does not actually think you NOTICE THAT MUCH, Hiding detachment. My W tries to contact me most days, most of it about the children, other stuff not that important. I think she still wants to try and control my life, not because she cares which seems strange for someone who id divorcing me.
I can explain the drug of the OM, tricks the OM will employ to keep your wife interested and coming back for more AND I can tell you what snapped ME out of my affair. every sitch is completely different, but I wanted to given an honest viewpoint from one whose walked in those shoes, to any itnerested.
I would be very interested here to know ALL of the above. I do not know anything about the OM, but a general womans viewpoint would be interesting to hear, particularly what snapped you out of the affair.
FACT: if you cheat, you will pay for it later on. There is no ifs or buts or 'maybes'. you will pay, pay, and then pay some more. you will pay in guilt, you will pay in shame, you will pay in a lack of self respect; you will lose status in every aspect of your life. I try a lot now, to let people considering straying, to understand these things. Hiding an affair is ridiculous. in the end every single person knows including your family, parents, and kids. but, this is something HARD LEARNED, and no one wants to ADMIT they learnt the hard way so no one actually gets TOLD by someone who IT HAPPENED TO. its a pity bc the more people who open up about this the more healing there will be
My wife is in a fog but she is hiding her affair very well by going away from the local area, says she is staying with friends, turns her mobile off etc, etc. I believe she does not want to lose face with me, her family and friends, but what will happen I believe is this OM will appear all of a sudden once we are divorced after a short period of time. I might be wrong, but this is what I believe will happen.
FF, I look forward to your response.
Last edited by markhaving probs; 05/25/0910:22 AM.
Bomb dropped: 19/12/08 Me:48 WAW:41 D:10 S:6 Married: 15 years
Your wife wants to keep in constant contact with you to keep her options open. I cant put it any more bluntly than that. If it all goes pear shaped later on, she hopes you'll be there for her. People in affairs are selfish.
Your wife thinks she is fooling you pretty well by being caring, and speaking with you, and interacting with you, an that maybe you'll hope and keep hoping, so she can keep you on a string. she also thinks you might not notice that its mostly fake
the drug of the OM is that he is everything you are not, and I do mean everything; picture a man completely the opposite of you, and I guarantee thats the OM. this is both positive and negative. MOST OM's aren't very strong men; they are an OM for a reason. remember, an OM (or an OW) is a person who is trying to take from someone else and not caring they are interefering in a family; that says something right there. a lot of OM's feel pride in taking a woman who is 'taken'. they feel quite manly being the one 'she runs to'. They fool themselves into thinking they are the ones who satsify her, on all levels. We, as the affair person, LET them think all this out of guilt (but mostly its untrue.)
Yr wife is with the OM bc hes free and happy and can give her all the attention she wants whenever she wants it, and she has ALL the control in the relationship. he is in full "courting" mode, full 'male chasing' mode. (this applies to ows). For him its become a bit of a challenge really and he loves feeling superior. its my opinion people that let themselves become OP's get ADDICTED to the ego inflation of being "the one" who can "make it right" and "do the right things". they dont understand the affair person is mostly in the glow of romantic love and lets them think that ... its not a realism.
The OM you are dealing with knows he has you for competition (even if you arent competing.) he will go all out and do everything to be "the better man". hes able to do this pretty easily right now bc they arent living together and neither person has to actually deal with REAL LIFE. He still sees her as a conquest and when the OP still sees you as the conquest, they are super romantic, super strong, super loving and super everything; easy to do in this mode - not so easy when real life intrudes.
Your wife probably feels a lot of shame in what she had done and is doing and she would be inflaming the OM by coming and going emotionally, ending it one day and falling into his arms the next. UNDERSTAND? this is the basis of their current relationship. DRAMA
and he wants to win... DRAMA
She wants to be a good person... DRAMA
basically break out the violins and cellos bc while the whole thing plays out, both parties are in fantasy land, he thinking shes torn and in a terrible place and he wants to 'save' your wife, he tells himself this every day to justify himself (applies to ows). you are a rotten person who doesnt know what hes got or how lucky you are, whereas OM does and would treat her right (more drama)and he keeps telling her this, and seeing as hes only getting one half of the story and the OM in the first place can we say B I A S E D. everyone likes to feel like an ANGEL and OM (and ow) tells themselves they are JUST THAT
meanwhile OM (or ow) doesnt realise the person in the affair is a selfish A HOLE who is taking full advantage of all this and ENJOYING all the attention from both men (or women) and sucking up the LOVE and just LOVING LIFE while being ever so entertained and diverted by the DRAMA of the whole thing, so much more exciting than REAL LIFE was, this is ADDICTIVE.
Sex is awesome bc sex is desperate and needy and grabbed and its different for the first time in years, and finally someone else sees how beautiful you are, when you havent heard that for years with sincerity, someone WANTS you, someone LUSTS AFTER YOU, and you cant remember feeling LUSTED after for an eon. its a DRUG. Even if hes not any better in bed than husband technically, emotionally, its EXPLOSIVE stuff. (i bet hes no better technically, years bring experience, but the emotions take over.)
EVEN WHEN THE AFFAIR MIGHT END, the emotional affair can continue, and the OM (or OW) welcomes this always hoping for a reconciliation bc they TOO became addicted to being needed all the time and the savior and they havent GIVEN UP on SAVING YOU. they think it MIGHT STILL HAPPEN after all you have so MUCH together.
In reality all the affair person has with the OM (or ow) is a lot of emotional crap that is mostly self indulgent and complete utter bulldust, bitter one sided views and news and a LOT OF LIES to make the OM (or OW) feel better about the whole thing.
When you're down to nothing, God is up to something.
the emotional affair continues, often online, often in clandestine emails, the lovers desperately contact one another expressing so much regret and desire for the other but it just "wasn't meant to be". the person who had the affair is sitll in a complete FOG of unreality and regretting giving up the OP who gave them so much emotionally, fed their souls,lit them on fire physically (due to the DRAMA) and hung on their every single utter WORD.
HOW AMAZING it was to be so completely wanted, and desired, and constantly thought about, this person is PINING for you and NEEDS you and they wanted to BE WITH YOU and be your EVERYTHING and maybe you made a BIG MISTAKE.
but you tell yourself you are doing the right thing and trying to work on your marriage when in fact your not working on it at all your still caught up in the DRAMA OF YOUR LOST LOVE, and this is not LOST on your w or h, who can READ you ever so much more better than you THINK after all these years, and sees you sad and melancholy and your regret, and BURNS inside.
You as the affair person are OBLIVIOUS to their pain, their knowing, and their utter sorrow that YOU seem to still be in LOVE with the OP. If asked the affair person will deny it and naysay it but they keep staring out windows. listening to sad songs; staring off into space.
The w or h has to put up with this for an UNTOLD time swallowing their prides, telling themselves its all worth it, saying "they're back, thats all that matters". inside they are falling apart and their egos are destroyed. In their gratefulness to have their partner back they overlook all the hurt, all the sighs and obvious discontent, and try to change themselves inside out to make them happy, questioning everything on the inside and too scared to voice it outwardly, incase they run again.
MEANWHILE... the w or h may start to come out of their fog, come around to see their partner, fall in love again, and be desperately sorry. this does happen. but they dont see the damage they did, they dont see the huge pain they caused which went suffering so long with nothing, they dont SEE that their PARTNER who tried for SO LONG and SO HARD to win them back is gradually losing heart, gradually being eroded, gradually questioning if they dont deserve MORE.
AND SO the person cheated on can end up, in a few years time after the AFFAIR, to be the ones discontented, the ones unhappy, the ones looking for answers in OP's.
it can be a full circle and this is my warning, even those who desperately think they want their H or W back can become eroded over time waiting for their H or W to love them again.. and what if you find someone who loves YOU in the meantime.
then its over.
this is what the person who has the affair does not realise or understand and might not, til its alll too late. In the end all sufferer's of affairs need to talk about it and finally let go of all those feelings of resentment and if you dont do it DURING you will do it LATER ON and WOOSH tables reversed.
When you're down to nothing, God is up to something.
I can only speak from a mans viewpoint on ME personally. I failed to bust the affair with OW with my husband so I cannot give advice there whatsoever - I failed.
What worked on me was him telling me outright it was over and he never wanted to see or speak to me ever again as long as the affair continued. I got VERY AFRAID - remember we had kids together and he was basically saying, I will not SEE you or SPEAK to you even in relation to the kids - I will go thru someone else to get to you; I wont TOLERATE you.
he literally LAID IT DOWN and frightened the living crap out of me. he said he was DONE and if I didnt give up the OM he was COMPLETELY thru with me and get this: he said: YOU WILL NEVER HEAR FROM ME EVER AGAIN. EVER. he told me he would initiate a "go between" for the kids and I would have NO ACCESS to him, his contact details NOTHING.
He took a very hard line and it shook me up so much I ended the affair IMMEDIATELY. i couldnt imagine not ever seeing or speaking to my husband, ever AGAIN but i saw in his eyes - he meant every single word of it. He stood up to me and toe to toe and to give him this, I KNOW to this day he meant every single word of what he spoke; he wasnt one to say such lightly. SOME women (pls dont bash me im just saying some) NEED direction to snap them out of it and I was just such a lost soul who NEEDED to be given a hard line; it WORKED on me. I would not say it would for everyone; but in my husbands case I knew he would follow thru with this, and this was someone i knew for 20 years. I couldnt imagine for a SECOND not being able to contact him or speak to him AT ALL.
so i ended it. but not without emotional angst of course and a lot of carrying on that I thought he couldnt 'see'. he saw alright. a lot more than I thought. no one ever gets that. I thnk that applies to both women and men.
ITS TRUE in my opinion today that sometimes the utter complete HARD LINE might need to come (not so much for women to men, as men are more likely to call your bluff, but defintely so with men to women.) WOMEN are emotional creatures and also creatures of the PAST. we cant get OVER the whole IDEA of complete "no contact, EVER" thing. believe this. we cannot believe that is even a possibility. whereas a man, a man is more likely to be like "OK THEN" and just walk away. Men in general, are MUCH better at walking away.
I think overall in the sexes this is a huge thing neither sex get about the other: women tend to focus more on the past and not be able to move forward (even when rebelling) but men are more likely to "give it up" and TRULY walk away. Face a woman with that and it IS panic time, I dont care if you are in it or not. thats a big deal.
If the affair was fresh i wouldnt recommend a man ever give such a hard line but if its in from 3 to six months I think yes, if shes still ummming and aaahing about the marriage, then yes, give it, yes why not ultimatum, because BY THEN, if she chooses HIM, then she should live with that. experience that choice. Then id go DARK.
In the cases of WOMEN with hubands I wuoldnt give such rash advice at all (as men walk off pretty easily.) I would say yes fight with the whole DB thing, do the stuff. but I think with a woman... going hard line CAN and DOES work if your committed to following thru. a woman would find it harder to find that decision than a man would (about following thru, even if it didnt work out.)
If i were a man who put forth such an ultimatum tho id be very sure in myself id done all i could (to change bad ways etc) been loving offered solutions etc, but if everything is done, the final ultimatum isnt bad (as long as its from the heart and you mean it; if she doesnt give him up your walking.)
But if you take that route just remember its still hard times, as she will be pining and stuff for the OP. blaming you even. its a TOUGH SITUATION, but ultimately if you dont fight dirty and low, you might LOSE to promises of "I will treat you better". (this is so rarely true)
I know IN MY SITCH if my h hadnt given me the final ultimatum it would have carried on. Im glad he did. Emotionally tho I was unavailable for 2 years after.
you have to ask if your willing to hold out for those two years.
after that tho I can truly say true sorrow and regret sets in (for ME) and I think i am not unusual.
When you're down to nothing, God is up to something.
My W dropped the bomb in Dec '08 so it is now 5 months since and she has not wavered in the slightest. She filed for D in March '09 and has met with a lawyer to finalise childrens visitation and financial split. My close friends or I do not know of anybody that has wanted to divorce so quickly, especially after 15 years, she wanted no counselling, nothing except as quick a divorce as possible.
To be honest I have validated her, done the wrong things, given it too her on too many occasions without too much resistance from me for fear of upsetting her in case she ever wanted to come back. I have been told I have to 'man up', get a backbone because she does not respect me, possibly shows contempt and does not see me as competiotion to OP. To compound this, I have been out of work since the end of March so again I do not think she sees me as an attractive option to OP. I am lacking in self esteem and confidence at the moment which I do not show her, I just try to be myself and not to be downbeat.
I find it hard to believe under these circumstances she is keeping her options open, do you think even with these circumstances this is the case?
She looks at me with anger, and talks to me like a business colleague or friendly neighbour at best. No smiles, no positivity, just scowls and any opportunity to have an argument. It is very confusing and to me highly unlikely she would consider coming back in my opinion.
Bomb dropped: 19/12/08 Me:48 WAW:41 D:10 S:6 Married: 15 years
sadly, it does sound like she has no respect for you; it sounds like she feels she has no options but to move forward and on.
this doesnt make it true... you know who you are, and you know your in this position right now partly bc of whats happened in your life, which is a terrible bomb going off... you have to try to do all you can right now to maintain your self respect and I do know, as one on the other side, how HARD THAT IS... I know you probably feel like a loser right now and a no hoper and I know you probably think shes right to not choose you, and i know you are at your lowest point in your life.
if you buy into that then your doing yourself a dis-service; none of that is true and its mostly bc of how your life has gone and it seems like one failure after another. I cannot tell you enough how important it is to be validated in who you are as a man and a person and to hold onto your self respect in all this. I know its hard and I know it ends up feeling like a competition you have failed at and I know it ends up you feel like just 'the parent' and 'the partner in the marriage' and thats all over now and shes moved on to 'greener better pastures.' perhaps she feels that, i dont know. but its NOT true and your a great man with a great future... you have to do all you can right now for YOURSELF.
i wont say "gal" because I actually hate that term and I hate seeing it on here and i actually think its really negative. its almost impossible to "gal" when you feel like your entire life is ending. such positive advice just makes you feel like even MORE of a complete loser. I STILL dont "gal" and I dont care either. I will 'gal' when I am good and ready and thats not when other people think so. right now you have to just SURVIVE and get thru all this with yourself intact. concentrate on that. concentrate on one foot in front of the other, til you can put your head up again and it might take some time. youve taken a beating; I think its time you relaxed some on your wife, and started really thinking about how you ARE. how ARE you. are you OK? are you ALRIGHT? are you COPING ok? are you EATING and taking care of yourself???? ARE YOU ALRIGHT?
a lot of people forget to ask men that. are you ALRIGHT? if your not then you need to pull back from her completely and please survive; theres no point in running yourself to death emotionally about this, if your falling apart. its not going to help your marriage. you have to try to get yourself together. you have to get yourself back on track, back to work, back in health, back to looking at the sun again.
if you have reached a really down point where you are so depressed you arent thinking of ANyTHING but her and your m, please STOP RIGHT NOW and start working on YOU right now. i cannot say this enough bc I ran myself ragged, and I know how horrible it is; you have to get back a semblence of yourself. you have to regain your identity and that doesnt mean 'getting a life' it means just deciding to LIVE and stop thinking of all this for a while until your ON TRACK. mostly that involves getting work (I had to do that to support my kids, I didnt have a job) being fit enough to GO to work, and to stop for a bit on everything just SUSPEND everything, until you know you are AT LEAST ok to go to work every day. its a crisis and its important, bc a lot of other people dont know you have reached it bc you act strong etc, but inside all you are doing is existing an thinking... not healthy.
Your wife will RESPECT you if you RESPECT yourself. see now i didnt with my h. i fell apart hardcore. one of my mistakes; we think it will make them feel for us but they dont. they're in another place. YOU have to take care of you, and YOU have to get it together, to regain your OWN self respect; then hers will follow or, if doesnt, you'l be strong enough to cope with that.
I really think right now... you cant follow any advice I think you are at the rock bottom where you have to bail and start on you. try again later on when your more together.
When you're down to nothing, God is up to something.
You're right about me feeling like a loser. I truly believe that at the moment, there does not appear to be any light at the end of the tunnel. I love my wife more than anything, I miss my children, I do not have any family for support, therefore I feel very insecure, isolated and lonely.
I just see my wife with her new figure, new clothes and new lifestyle, living in the marital home I re-built and decorated, and it is really getting to me. She is going out with friends and having a great time, while I am still in utter turmoil and am hurting so badly. I know I must forget her and concentrate on me and the children, but it is impossible to try and forget the one person who has been a part of you for 15 years. The one person I adore but never told her often enough, the person I neglected over the years.....
I go to the gym, I try and get out but it is difficult as most of my friends were OUR friends and they knew my wife before me. I am trying to occupy my time with other things but I am finding it tough as I am suffering from depression and its hard to get motivated.
Thanks again FF, I know I cannot say or do anything to my wife that makes any difference, I just have to look at me but even now all I can think of is my wife and what she is up to.
Does being more of a man ie. making decisions that she does not like but I need to make for the sake of my own self respect make a difference? I have enabled her to take this course of action (divorce) without much fight from me for fear of her pulling even further away. Would she think more or less of me if I stand my ground on something I feel is important?
Bomb dropped: 19/12/08 Me:48 WAW:41 D:10 S:6 Married: 15 years
Welcome to the forum, and kudos to you for sticking your neck out. I hope you can be of some good to some folks who are really hurting.
You've chronicled here why I'm so aggressive in my advice for busting up affairs. I detest affairs, and I don't think much of the "Little Bo-Peep" approach (you know, "leave them alone, and they'll come home, wagging their tails behind them . . .") -- ESPECIALLY for MEN. Because not only does every month that the affair continues drain the marriage of additional finances, and contain continued medical risks, but it also begins to slowly emasculate what's left of the left-behind man's self-esteem.
For ANYONE, this is tough, but for men it carries its own particular type of damage.
My philosophy as I make my way around the Newcomers and Infidelity forums is to pretty much leave people alone if they seem like they're OKAY with their approach -- either it's working for them, or they are at least holding up well. But when I see it not working, and especially with men, and especially when their passive approach is eating away at what's left of their self-confidence, then I try to help.
Adultery is the ultimate confidence-killer for a man. I don't think any woman can ever fully understand that, just as I as a man can't fully understand what it's like to bear and give birth to a child. But it's eviscerating, and the sooner a man can bust his wife's affair -- I believe -- the better.
