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song Offline OP
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Thank you all for your comments and suggestions, I really appreciate the support and encouragement.

{{{{{Sandi}}}}} - As always, I greatly value your feedback and insight. To clarify, when I said
Quote:
"I'm not interested in sitting down and discussing anything with your attorney. If you have an attorney, I guess I will need to get one also. You know I love you and always will, and I will always treat you cordially and with respect especially around the kids, but if we get divorced, we will not be friends. Friends don't do this to each other."
I was very calm and succinct, and said it with as little emotion as possible. I think that is why she had such an incredulous look on her face.

And no, I'm not saying "It's in God's hands now" as a defeatist statement. I guess I mean that I'm resigned to the fact that I have done everything I can do, and it's only pushed her away, so i just have to let go and let God. I know I've been told that countless times, and that I've said "OK, that's what I'll do", but the reality is that I've been holding on to false hope, thinking that something I was doing would have some effect on her.

I am in a Christian support group, and last night's topic was on forgiveness, and I realize that I have a lot of work to do in that area. I have asked for God's forgiveness, and I've asked for Him to help me forgive myself, and I'm still not there yet, but I continue to read and pray. I'm sure that, and the support I am getting here, is what is getting me through this.

SmileysPerson - thank you so much for your uplifting comments. I really enjoy reading your perspective on things, and wish I had the gift of wordplay that you have. Next time I am in Coastal City, we'll have to sit down together and share a fine single malt.


Me46 W45 T21/M17 S13, 12
ILYBINILWY06/08 WAW 10/08
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You didn't blow it. I said the same thing...and so do many other 'men' here. How can you be divorced and thrown out of your house and be friends.

No my friend...you said the right thing.

I told my W that I would always respect her for the good times that we shared....for being the mother of our children...and for giving me a family....but I would no longer be her friend. She cut my hair for more than 10 years. I started to go to a different hair stylist.

I think, that, someday, you actually MAY be able to establish a friendship with her, but, not now.

I urge you to contact an attorney to know your rights. I urge you to think..if there is anything in the house that...if you woke up one morning and it was gone and it would hurt you...you might consider protecting. I urge you to consider that she may one day do things to hurt you during a divorce...that you consider this as a business now and you keep that in mind.

Quote:

I have asked for God's forgiveness, and I've asked for Him to help me forgive myself,

For doing what?

FIB


Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11)
Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t
Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10
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song Offline OP
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I put a lot of the blame on myself for why she left. I was too wrapped up in myself to realize that she was hurting and checking out of the M, and it was only after the bomb that I was able to see all the things I could have and should have done differently. 20-20 hindsight, or more accurately stated, too much too little too late.


Me46 W45 T21/M17 S13, 12
ILYBINILWY06/08 WAW 10/08
http://tinyurl.com/cqzew6
http://tinyurl.com/c4pv22
http://tinyurl.com/dyfw3n]
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Still sounds like self-victimization and blame.

I think you should start praying for forgiveness for for blaming yourself and you should start praying for her for destroying her family. FIB


Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11)
Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t
Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10
Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
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song Offline OP
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I guess you cold call it self-victimization and blame, or, you could look at it as me taking ownership for my part of what happened. I fully acknowledge that I had a part in it, and I need to forgive myself for the part that I had in the failure of the R before I can begin to forgive her. At least that's what they said in the support group meeting I went to on forgiveness - First ask God for his forgiveness, then ask Him to help you forgive yourself, then ask for help and willingness to forgive WAW.

Of course the D is all her, but the A,B & C that precede D, we both have a part in.


Me46 W45 T21/M17 S13, 12
ILYBINILWY06/08 WAW 10/08
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http://tinyurl.com/c4pv22
http://tinyurl.com/dyfw3n]
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Originally Posted By: song
I put a lot of the blame on myself for why she left. I was too wrapped up in myself to realize that she was hurting and checking out of the M, and it was only after the bomb that I was able to see all the things I could have and should have done differently. 20-20 hindsight, or more accurately stated, too much too little too late.


Song, I can relate to this. We messed up. And our wives left us because, after trying so hard for such a long time, they gave up. They quit the marriage. We didn't realize the damage we were doing at the time, and we lost our wives...and our families were broken apart as a result of it. That's the reality. Sugar-coating any of it won't help us...we need to be honest and shoulder what we've done; apologize; learn from it; and make the necessary changes in ourselves regardless! I think we've done that...and that's all we can do. I wish we had made these changes years ago. We didn't. We have to keep on living though, and be the best men and fathers that we can be. It hurts...bad. I know...the regret and remorse is a killer. I think that God has forgiven us, and I, like you, ask Him to help me forgive myself. I also pray for the hurt that my wife has and I ask Him for healing for her, and I pray for our kids because of the pain and uncertainty and insecurity that they have experienced as a result of all of this. Reading what Coach wrote on my thread about 'dropping the rope' kind of puts things in perspective that makes it easier to understand. Just wanted you to know that there are others who know how you feel.


"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
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Originally Posted By: song
I guess you cold call it self-victimization and blame, or, you could look at it as me taking ownership for my part of what happened. I fully acknowledge that I had a part in it, and I need to forgive myself for the part that I had in the failure of the R before I can begin to forgive her. At least that's what they said in the support group meeting I went to on forgiveness - First ask God for his forgiveness, then ask Him to help you forgive yourself, then ask for help and willingness to forgive WAW.

Of course the D is all her, but the A,B & C that precede D, we both have a part in.


I know exactly how you feel!


"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
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((Song)) thank you for making your statements more clear for me. I am really proud of you for the stand you took b/c I know it had to be hard. I am glad you do not feel defeated! You have given it to the One Who can do something.....if anyone can!

I like that SP's spunk...... Bet folks don't mess with that one, huh? Seriously, what was said there was good.

I understand what you said about forgiving yourself and I personally think that it takes a big person to admit that they were part of the breakdown of the MR.....if in fact they were. That is for you to decide. As I may have told you.....my H never took any responsibility for any part of the problems. That was very hard for me to overcome and get past. I knew I did wrong. I knew what my sins were. But, he is not perfect and he certainly did have blame in the beginning of the breakdown of our R. So, I had to forgive him.....even though he did not recognize his own faults or ask me to forgive him.....I had to do it in order to move forward. I think forgiving ourselves it the tough one, though. But, you can do it. You have faced it and now just forgive yourself by your "will". You may not "feel" it for a while, but everytime you start to feel like a failure or downcast in any way......just tell yourself that you have forgiven yourself and you aren't going to go back to that "place" of self-comdemnation again.

Take care, Song......

Sandi



It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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song Offline OP
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Thank you Sandi,

Your advice is always so helpful. I don't imagine I will be posting much more, as I have really turned it over to God, and all I can do is read and pray. Thanks to everyone for all your advice. I will certainly post if anything changes, and will try to help out other newcomers as much as I can, but for now, it's out of my hands.


Me46 W45 T21/M17 S13, 12
ILYBINILWY06/08 WAW 10/08
http://tinyurl.com/cqzew6
http://tinyurl.com/c4pv22
http://tinyurl.com/dyfw3n]
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Originally Posted By: antlers

Song, I can relate to this. We messed up. And our wives left us because, after trying so hard for such a long time, they gave up. They quit the marriage. We didn't realize the damage we were doing at the time, and we lost our wives...and our families were broken apart as a result of it. That's the reality. Sugar-coating any of it won't help us...we need to be honest and shoulder what we've done; apologize; learn from it; and make the necessary changes in ourselves regardless!


Antlers....did you do drugs? were you an alcoholic? did you beat your wife?

Ya know...I admire that you...and others here...accept what 'contributions' we made here. I've seen happily married people endure much worse and stay together.

Too much 'woe is me'. OK....OK....you weren't an Oscar winning husband. Quoting David Cunningham:
Quote:

You were working with the tools that you had at the time. You've learned and grown. Don't look back and continue to see this as failure or YOU WILL FAIL AGAIN IN THE FUTURE


antlers (hijacking)...that comment sounds too defeatist..too 'sorry for myself'......did you wife do ANYTHING wrong?????

Wives/husbands...forgive. They talk. They discuss their issues. They 'work at a marriage'.

Both of you....stop blaming yourselves. They chose this...not you.

FIB


Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11)
Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t
Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10
Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
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