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#1757032 04/24/09 04:46 PM
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Hi-

I've been reading here for several months, and I think it's time I told my story to hopefully get the opinions of others. My situation is very similar to others (of course). I don't want to get very specific, as it's possible my W could find this site. My wife and I are in our early 40's, we've been married almost 10 years, and have 3 young kids. We really loved each other, and really tried to be good to one another, but given that we got married in our 30's, we were in a hurry to get going on house, family, etc. We bought a fixer upper house right before we got married, and then had 3 kids within the first 5 years, the last of which wasn't exactly planned. The work load and finanacial strain brought out the poorer sides of our nature, and we both became moody and resentful of the seemingly endless responsibilities we brought upon ourselves, and our marriage unfortunately suffered over the years. We went to MC and IC on and off for the last 5-6 years. As our kids got a little older, things started to lighten around the house, and we each started to come out of our "funk", but our marriage was seriously damaged. There was a very frustrating dynamic between us where we each could see that the other loved us, and wanted to somehow get back to being happy, but we were so stuck, and MC wasn't seeming to help. The last few years, my W started down the WAW path. At first she complained about everything, and I oscillated between being angry with her about it and trying desperately to fix all the things she thought were wrong about me and our life. Then she just started to "check out" and she became extremely sensitive to any conflict between us. Every time there was any negative interaction, she would get very silent, and when I'd seek her out she'd tell me she was feeling very distant from me. She started to dwell on every negative thing about me and our life, and refused to acknowledge anything positive, of which there was plenty. We live in a nice town, our kids are awesome, we have great friends, we never had any truly hard times (job loss, serious illness, etc), and I very much loved her and was really trying to address all of her complaints.

A little over a year ago, my W told me she was done with us and that she was moving out, and that the kids would split time with us. I was devastated, and in an emotional explosion, I opened my heart to her in a way I never had before. She told me she went from having no hope for us to having a little hope. The next day I looked at myself in the mirror and decided if this family needed a hero, that was me. I changed dramatically that day. I decided to get in great shape (I was sluggish and overweight), and to become a completely positive force in our family. My W was shocked at my transformation, and about a month later told me should couldn't leave, and that she was willing to "wait and see" if her feelings changed. Although my changes became permanent as a truly new me (positive, kind, always smiling, energetic), as the year went on, she kept telling me her feelings weren't changing, and that she didn't love me any more. I was confused because we were very much becoming great friends again, talking all the time, and spending much time together. There was still a wall up though.

I didn't know at the time, but found out much later that she had initiated contact with a man she had know 20 years earlier in another country who had professed his love for her, but she had soundly rejected. She found him still single and still interested in her. They began an e-mail relationship, and she slowly came to prefer sharing her life and feelings with him via e-mail rather than with me. I was ignorant that this was going on. Last fall she told me our marriage was really over and that she'd be moving out the following spring. She moved out of our bedroom and into the guest room. I was again devastated, but found DB and DR books, and ramped up my changes even more. I acted "as if" things were great between us, and was happy-go-lucky around the house. She began to act quite strange, and I felt something was very wrong. She told me she wanted to start working on her PhD again, and was planning a short trip to this other country to investigate research opportunities right after Christmas. Ten days before Christmas I found e-mails in our family account between my W and OM that were devastating to say the least. They had begun a very explicit internet affair, and were planning to meet up to consumate their affair. I was an emotional basket case, but with the strength of friends and family bolstering me up, I told her if she went on the trip, she wasn't welcome back in our house. She backed down and said she wouldn't go, but that she was moving out right after the holidays. I told myself I wasn't going to let her actions ruin the kids Christmas, so I completely acted "as if" everything was fine. We actually had a wonderful holiday, and her heart even cracked back open to me a bit. It didn't last though, and she moved out on New Year's Day. My heart was truly broken when she took the kids to her new place and my family was gone.

I instinctively went very dark, and she was a train wreck, swinging wildly between her intensifying affair, and reaching back to me. My emotional state was not strong enough, and I'd weaken when she reached back to me, hoping she'd come back. She did travel to see OM after about a month, and her EA became a PA. She did begin to act very strangely toward me then. There was a kindness in her voice, and she started giving me little compliments when I'd see her to transition the kids. I was actually feeling pretty good about myself, I was in the best shape of my life, and I had a solid network of friends and family who were supporting me wonderfully. I embraced my new singlehood, and was having as much fun as I could, although I was still in extreme emotional pain much of the time.

This is getting very long, so I'll try to wrap it up. My W travelled again to see OM a month later, but she was acting increasingly kind toward me, although still distant. I was feeling pretty strong, but I did really miss my W and wanted my family whole again. I learned through the grapevine that my W and OM "broke up" about a month ago, although they still communicate regularly (nearly daily), so I'm not sure exactly what the status of that is.

My W has been increasing contact with me, is always kind in her interactions, and regularly invites me to do things with her and the kids, some of which I do, and sometimes I decline due to other plans I've made. Annoyingly, she often invites me on-the-spot, with the kids at her side, and I'm forced to see their faces light up when she asks, and watch them collapse if I have to (or want to) say no. I'm not sure what to do. Is this cake eating? Should I make her declare what her status is with this OM, or should I say nothing? Should I tell her that I will not do anything together as a family as long as the OM is in the picture? Should I just ignore the fact there is OM, and make the times we spend together just light and fun? Should I flirt with her? I have the advantage that the OM is in another country. We've never really had a R talk since she moved out, except for one brief moment when I had lunch with her about a month ago, and her wall came down and she said she's been really hating me and hating what I did to our marriage, but that she likes how I've been changing and that she misses me. She gave me a hug and a kiss on the cheek and asked if we could just take this a day at a time, to which I replied okay.

Regardless of the OM, she's still quite solid in her stance that we stay separated, although she's never used the D word. I've used the D word on a number of occassions, and she gets very uncomfortable. She does continue to remove her things from our (now my) house, and she does want to keep pursuing a formal legal arrangement.

I'm really at a loss here. My feelings have been quite unwavering that I really want my W back, but I have to admit, sometimes I wonder. My W is in many ways very selfish, and our relationship had to some degree been defined by her declaring her wants, and my trying (and usually failing from her point of view) to meet them. There is a ton I love about her though. I did the exercise where I tried to write down ten things I love about her, and I stopped when I got to 14. I will have to deal with the fact that she broke my heart and had a PA. I would like to at least have the chance to see if we could try again and build a truly great marriage. I've become convinced this whole thing has been a very painful, but very necessary wake-up call. I know that my thoughts and feeling about what I want out of marriage and life have changed dramatically, and I'd love to share them with my W.

Sorry for the long winded post. I'd very much appreciate any opinions anyone here is willing to offer. Thanks.

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Sorry that I can't give much advice. I relate to the cake eating thing. My H seems to have all of the control and wants to be around me (asked me to do shots of tequila on a whim with him last night, which i declined). He picks my brain and wants to talk about our relationship and just when I think it is moving in a direction, he reaffirms how "done" he is. Aaargh. I, like you need more guidance on how to navigate the friendship at this stage, and if it is better or worse for the kids for us to spend time together.



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It really bugs me when I feel like my W has all the control, so I insist on taking some of it back. Trying to walk this line between staying loving, but being tough and staying detached is very hard. I tend to fall back and forth over that line.

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I can completely relate to your dilemma. Although I am painfully aware that the A is still going on, I have been making changes that my H definitely sees. He moved out about 10 weeks ago, and at first, there wasn't much contact beyond some curt emails. That progressed to us spending a couple of evenings together, which were actually very nice (not sexual.) But now I feel that he is definitely cake-eating and, although I may not go completely dark, I think the best thing would be to significantly detatch. I'm so confused. I think the best thing (as my DB coach has taught me) is to try a specific behavior (i.e. backing off) and see the response. The problem for me is that, although my H's response to seeing me happy and upbeat and looking great was positive, he is still "in love" and having hot sex with the OW. Very difficult to figure out what to do.

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blueheart-

That really sounds like some serious cake eating you're allowing. If the OM in my situation was local, and I knew my W was seeing him, I'd probably just stay as dark as possible, and maintain strict boundaries, as in no time together other than the minimal required to deal with kids, etc. In other words, business only. For me, the fact that the OM is so far away puts me in a very confusing situation. In some ways, I now feel like the OM. I'm here, able to see my W in person and have fun with her, while he's stuck thousands of miles away. My W still has solid walls up toward me though, and I try not to fight them.

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Oh - you're so right! It was actually my DB coach who encouraged me to see my husband and test the waters. Now, I agree that it's time to go as dark as possible. It's the unknown/being in limbo that's the hardest for all of us. In some ways, I can't imagine my H staying in the life he's suddenly created for himself, but who knows? Thanks for the advice


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Future, I think you are doing great and the right thing. I guess the only thing I would avoid now is the R talks. I also think it is time to tell her in a private conversation, "I really enjoy spending time with the kids, I think it's great when we can do things as a family. However, if you would like to do that, please ask me in private or give me some more than "on the spot" notice in front of the kids. I feel awful saying no to them and that's not fair if I have prior plans and others are counting on me. If given the right notification, we can work out great family nights together." I agree with you, that's crap.
Keep GALing. I am glad you have a great support system.

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blueheart
This is from the book and I think it gives a better explanation as to why your DB Coach said to see your H:

Page 215-216 in Divorce Remedy

"You need to gather all your strength to stop talking about the affair. In fact, it behooves you to stop asking questions about their relationship completely. The more you ask, the more your spouse will feel pressured. The more your spouse feels pressured, the more s/he will want to flee. Control yourself."

“You also have some investigative work to do. No, I don’t mean snooping around to find out what is really going on. Since you can’t approach your spouse with any information you discover, you are only hurting yourself by snooping. You need to figure out what is so darn appealing about this OP. Do they have a great sex life whereas yours has been paltry? Does s/he flatter your spouse a great deal, building his/her ego? Is s/he spontaneous, willing to do things at the spur of the moment, when you like to have thigns planned months in advance? Is s/he a good listener, always interested in what your spouse needs to say?

You need to find out what need your spouse is fulfilling by spending time with this person so that you can do a better job fulfilling that need yourself. You need to make some changes. Don’t tell your spouse that you are going to change or that things will be different, just start acting differently.”

You can do this--knock it out of the park.

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futureunknown,

You are in a tenuous position. It sounds like you are doing all the right things. I congratulate you on that. You should look into Retrouvaille at their website, http://www.helpourmarriage.org. They have weekend workshops for married people going through difficult times where you work together on communication. It is not counseling, you and your wife talk in total privacy, but they give you questions to answer and things to think about. The weekend saved my marriage, and I recommend it highly as do several other posters on this website. At this point, I would look at the retrouvaille website and choose a weekend that works for you, and then invite your wife to go there with you. I would focus on getting her to go to the weekend. You will make more headway there than anywhere else.

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stillloveshim-

Thanks for the advice. I have been totally avoiding R talk, as I know from prior mistakes that nothing good comes from bringing it up right now. During the lunch I referred to, it was my W that initiated the R talk, and I said almost nothing. We were just chatting about the kids, when the look on the her face totally changed, and I realized her wall was down. That's when she talked briefly about our R. I just let her speak, and acted kind. When she was done I told her I could see she was changing, and that I liked what I was seeing. Then I made a little joke to lighten the mood, which she seemed to appreciate greatly.

Sara-

I have looked into Retrouvaille extensively, and I agree it might be something my wife and I could really benefit from, but my gut tells me now's not the time. This whole thing needs to play out a while longer, and she needs to heal some more, as well as come to some conclusion regarding the OM, or not I guess. I think one of the requirements of Retrouvaille is that no other parties are involved, and that's definitely not the case yet for my W, unfortunately.

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