I guess it is a natural reaction to everything seeming so out of control.
Right on. During my months away, I had a session with an excellent C. She told me that being controlling is situational and arises from a threat to your own moral order. It was comforting to me to be reminded that it's the situation, not the person. He pulled back, you tried to pull him closer. You were trying to return it back to an equilibrium.
Last edited by iamlost; 04/17/0902:43 AM.
It is in the shelter of each other that people live.--Irish proverb
Hi Julia, I've been reading along - not much to say. I think we have learned that control is directly related to fear. Both, always need to be kept in perspective.
You seem to have a good handle on things & keeping yourself in check. Stay strong & oh yes cooollll!!
Me39, XH45 Kids 3 dogs, 2 cats Divorced 6/4/09 Tricky thing is not how you live, but how you live with yourself. (POTC)
I just went back further and caught up more (been away too long!). I read about the breakthrough you had with H. That must have been so great after all the work you've done! I practically stood up and cheered. All your theories about his guilt seem like they were right on all along. He said things like, "after all I've done," etc. Sounds just like my H, too. Plus, getting out of limbo is a HUGE RELIEF, for both of you.
But I was also struck by something else, reading about the financial shenanigans that were going on by your H, and hearing your disbelief that he could do that stuff, and other posters talking about their own WAS screwing them over financially, and it totally reminded me of something.
Ok, so I'm a huge dork and LOVED Buffy the Vampire Slayer TV show back in the day. I've been rewatching episodes on DVD from Netflix, and I recently watched Season 3 where one of the good characters accidentally kills a human instead of a vampire, and then for the rest of the season she spirals out of control and ends up becoming evil for a time. And I had one of my eureka moments(TM), and I realized that I could apply this scenario to my marriage! (Hey, I've applied more farfetched ones before).
Watching that season actually made the whole "alien WAS" phenomenon more clear to me, like a visual aid. If people can't face the pain they caused, that pain has its own momentum. It quickly becomes, "well, the LBS is this way or deserves it, I don't care anyway" and can escalate into greater and greater justifications for worse and worse behavior. The more the WAS hurts the LBS, the more it justifies hurting them in the first place. It's all in service of justifying the original, main action.
Crap deal for all involved. The book Mistakes Were Made...but Not By Me puts self-justification forward as one of the main reasons humans do so many evil things to each other.
/Buffy rant
It is in the shelter of each other that people live.--Irish proverb
(((Lost))) Thank you That was such great insight into control, thank you for sharing it and it makes so much sense. And thank you for cheering my breakthrough with h, I am really proud of that! I loved your Buffy analogy, it is quite spot on. It made me think that the funny thing is that when H said he didn't know why he left that summer was a really good thing as it meant that he can't really recall the negative me. I'm hoping that at least when we no longer have joint interests he won't be able to hurt me more in that way and he won't have to be underhand.
Hey (((Ms M))) Great to see you. I'm working on that cool girl thing
H and I had an email exchange yesterday re the meeting that we are having on Monday night as there is a load of stuff I have to bring for the solicitors. I am totally letting him be the man on this one and taking the lead. I ahve had more to do with the estate agents side as I am living at the property.
I suggested we meet at my office and go through all that stuff and then go for a bite to eat afterwards which he seemed fine about. Yay, baby steps... we are going on a non-business related outing even if it is pre-cursed by business stuff. This all helps towards my friends goal and reinforces that he wants to spend social time with me again. I know it isn't huge to get excited about but I am working on my PMA and anything helps right?
So, my plan for the potentially difficult meeting about talking about splitting stuff is to just go with the flow of the form and not make a big deal about the parts that are a huge deal to me and keep things as light as possible and to LISTEN but be ready to set boundaries if I need to whilst looking hot and acting totally cool girl! I realised my first plan of action, which was to suggest getting the 'difficult stuff' over with first, would be me trying to take control of the process and highlighted my insecurites.
Hey Julia.. you sound good, as usual! I thikn I must have missed a bit, as you keep talking about a breakthrough but then you say you are meeting to talk about the D papers on Monday? (or is that house solicitor papers??).
When I told Jody that my ex told BMF that he doesnt know why he left, she said, hmm.. thats not good, he wont come back until he figures out why he left. I didnt ask her any more about that, but it still annoys me that not only he, but I dont know why he left. I make the assumption he left because of meeting ow and that put doubts in his mind about our commitment. Perhaps its the same for your H? I was reading that Stonsy book and I am sure it said in there, as I have read elsewhere that men rarely leave unless they have something to go to.. in other words, someone else in mind.
Its great you are getting to see him though, wouldnt it be awful if it was acrimonious?
I think it's great that you're getting to meet him on Monday and the getting something to eat aswell is a great step forwards- a good opportunity to show him your hot naughtiness
Good idea on letting him take more of the responsibility for the paperwork (it's house sale related stuff, right?). I have every faith in you guys having a good and calm discussion. It's usually amicable when you meet isn't it, so there's no reason why this meeting shouldn't be too!
Interesting on your H not knowing why he left. I'd imagine that the phrase 'not knowing why he left' is contextual in that if he was talking about his motivations for leaving and not knowing from a motivational point of view it could mean a lot of patience required for him to work through his reasons and identify them. However, if it was more in the context of 'our R wasn't the reason I left' that's a whole different thing. I don't know if I'm making any sense at all, so I'd better stop there, but I hope you get my drift.
I'm a little suspicious of the "don't know why I left" too. My H blamed me when he left over a year ago, expressed almost entirely through hurtful lies. And then has told me recently that he "never wanted to hurt me". Uh, yes, you did, H. Me carrying the pain (and the blame) was so you didn't have to.
Time makes people forget things, but I think that him saying "I don't remember why I left" translates into, "I blamed you at the time, unfairly, for me leaving".
BTW, "Negative you" was a young woman dealing with a lot of big issues coming mostly from your H. Your H, like mine, chose to deal with those issues by running. We stood, and fixed ourselves up while--continuing--to carry our runaway H's heavy loads. You have nothing, nothing, nothing to feel guilty over at this point in time. You have paid your penance in spades, and whatever kindness H wouldn't let you show him as he ran you have shown to others.
It is in the shelter of each other that people live.--Irish proverb
I guess, I feel different about the "don't know why I left". They really, just might not want to share it. It was something deep within the WAS. Sometimes now, is not the time to probe for "the whys".
Me39, XH45 Kids 3 dogs, 2 cats Divorced 6/4/09 Tricky thing is not how you live, but how you live with yourself. (POTC)
I also want to jump in on the "I don't know why I left."
Jody may be right that the WAH won't return if he doesn't know why, meaning that he is still struggling to figure out if it was the R, the OW etc. However, I think MsM has a really good point that in fact the WAH might just not want to share it. I don't know why my H "left" (I moved out for 3 months-but the same thing) physically and emotionally, but he is mostly back now. I can make loads of guesses as to what caused him to snap, but he does not talk about it, and we are living together.
My point here is that as you are not living with your H, are not "together", and aren't yet to the point where you are having regular conversations about feelings, I don't think he'd feel comfortable talking about why he left in any detail, and probably still feels incredibly guilty about what he has done. I think Lisa was onto something when she suggested (if I understood right) that he might have meant that the R wasn't the reason he left, and that he left in spite of you, not because of you, and that he is having a hard time understanding why he would leave something/someone that clearly did not warrant that kind of treatment.
I'm not sure if anything I said there makes sense. My main point is that even when you are fairly close to your WAH, as I am with mine, answers are not always forthcoming. If you do get back together with your H and patch things up, he may still never talk about why he left. I remember Optimistwife posted about her conversation with Jody, several months ago, and Jody's advice had been to talk about "now" and what is working. Anything that is a reminder of the past and how they treated you brings up feeling of guilt. It seems like many of us may never get the "explanation" we want, but may have to let that part of the past go in order for hope at a better future with our Hs.
Anyway I think you are doing a brilliant job with everything, and I am glad that you are on your way to developing a friendship. I can't wait to hear about how things go on Monday night. I am sure they will go well, and maybe your H will even open up a little bit again now that the air has been cleared.
Best of luck and have a great weekend! ITH
Me:34 H:36 M:5 years T: 8 years Bomb: 07/17/08 I want to be separated for 6 months--I don't know what I want the outcome to be S 07/28/08-11/08/08 Living together ~7 months D Possibly busted?!?!!!
Wow, this is a really interesting turn on my thread...
Hmmmm, I guess for me I feel like I really don't mind that he said he doesn't know why he left. For me the fact that he has spent time thinking about it is the important thing. I know that I have done things in the past and afterwards thought 'wth did I do that??' and still don't understand to this day, once maybe on a par with the seriousness of h leaving so I do understand.
For me I feel the past is past and I am more focused on the present. For me, the breakthrough is that we both expressed to each other a need to move forward in a positive direction. I need no other explanation from him really, if he wants to discuss it in the future of course we will though. Those are my thoughts really.
I just wanted to pick up on some things you guys said that I have been thinking about the past few days.
(((Ali))) I read that too about ow. I guess my feelings are that it is something I cannot control, I can only control me and I am aiming for the greener grass. I also understand what Jody says about them not coming back. When h expressed that, I looked him square in the face and said 'it's ok, I understand' and it was like we had got that out in the open and I'm hoping it lifted the cloud of guilt. I suppose I'll just have to wait and see.
(((Lisa))) When you post to me before meetings it always renews my confidence, thank you!!!! It is the solicitor papers for the house not D papers. I do get your drift. I think h was feeling suffocated and trapped, whether by me or something else I don't know. I suppose that is why I am working so hard on the 180s as I can only control me.
(((Lost))) Your last paragraph was so inspirational. Thank you sooooo much for writing that. It is something I will remind myself of a lot.
(((Ms M))) I agree totally on the timing issue. Jody once said to me 'wait until you will be heard' and I am totally taking that on board. Even though it requires patience I am not sure I have!
(((ITH))) thank you for stopping by. Your post was so interesting. Thank you so much for telling me of your experience of it, I really appreciate it. I will totally take what you said on board.
My weekend has been fun so far. Friday night a friend came round and we had pizza and wine. She agreed to take my sofa when I move which is great as I didn't have a clue what to do with it. It is way too big and heavy!
Then yesterday I went shopping with my Mum and bought a top that is electric blue and shows off my shoulders. I'm teaming that with black trousers and a chunky belt and heals so hopefully will look hot tomorrow Today I am chilling.
So far I am not feeling anxious about tomorrow. Let's hope it stays that way
