I have found in my life that despite overcoming huge setbacks, I'll get trapped by something big down the road that may be even similar to what I experienced before. I think my comfort zones continued to evolve and narrow when life is easy, so that when a major setback occurs outside of that narrow comfort zone, despite a history of dealing with it before, I allow it to be a major setback once again. The recovery from each time seems to be much shorter, but the initial impact is always pretty big.
If a WAS appears to be 'on the fence' and confused about where to take their life next, I wonder if 'showing tail lights' would do any good? That is, showing that I'm/we're moving beyond W with new friends, new travel, 1-on-1 'friend' outings, et cetera. I'm already GAL'ing, but haven't really talked about it much with W.
I guess in answering my own question, 'would do any good' for whom? (me, I suppose)
NiceGuy...YES, in your case I think it would do some good. It might also just let her figure "great! He's gone so I can move on!" so one never knows how it will play out....but in your case, I would give it a shot. Just *lightly* make it known that you are GAL-ing with *light* and *vague* details.
Please also go up to the newcomers section and read the post I just wrote on the thread called "GAL advice". I think that one would really apply to you!
I am now following the 'GAL Advice' section as you probably have noticed. The reason I posted the question about appearing CONFIDENT (on the 'GAL Advice' thread) is a result of finally hearing (or perhaps re-hearing) two of my W's complaints about me - including lost confidence over the last 7 years due to work setbacks, resulting in a gradual loss of competence as a husband. She also stated (to a mutual friend) that she is enjoying being single and doesn't want me back - in part because she thinks it would take too long for me to change.
I can definitely see where the MrNiceGuy aspects of me have led me to fall short on a few key requirements of appearing confident. I've got my work cut out for me in the 180 department. Regardless if she ever sees it, I CERTAINLY will see it in myself and take advantage of the newly developed confidence.
DQ - we have posted before but this is the first time i have read these ones and was glad I found it.
I like you had an A and upon being caught , stopped immediately and fought for a marrige ( except I lied ) 3 years on , I tell the truth and H for 3rd or 4 th time leaves the home. Within weeks i am told of his OW. I begin Dbing. No luck, the nicer and silent I become , the worse and more open he becomes.
I snap and I now have controls of busines etc back. H hates me , our kids dont have much to do with H and will not entertain a minuite of talk or time of his OW.
My question to you DQ are ? Did you persue your M after your A? how long did your H stay around? How long before you gave up? Did entering a new relationship take courage or did it just happen? How are your kids towards your H ? Is he in another R?
Hi DQ - I've read your posts and want to thank you for offering insight from another point of view and experience. I'm in a place where I feel like a spinning top. There is so much swimming through my mind, and I'm heartbroken, heartbroken, heartbroken. I'd love it if you'd read my threads and tell me your thoughts when you have time. I'd appreciate any feedback you can offer. Thanks again.
Early in our marriage, about 3 years in, I had a full-on PA. I ended it due to guilt. 4 years later I confessed it to my H. He said he would forgive me and we tried to move on. But we never had counseling or did anything to try to work they the "whys" of me having an affair. Also, we BOTH just considered me a sinner. We BOTH assumed he had made no mistakes, it was all just some flaw within me. In retrospect, this was the nail in our marriage coffin.
So after I confessed my A, I was then a "good girl" for many many years. But I was miserable and we had no sex life. I kept trying to figure out what was wrong with me. Hindsight is 20/20 and now I see all the dynamics at play, and it wasn't all my fault, which I had assumed at that time.
After we had been married about 10 years, my halo slipped off my head. I couldn't seem to prompt him to help me make any positive changes in our sitch (although I now understand I never went about it the right way), and somehow I fell into some kind of major flirting fest. From there, I ended up kind of giving up on myself and my marriage (but didn't tell him, again, I realize now, duh, what a mistake, should have talked to him or dragged him to counseling) and I would then just kind of allow myself to follow in whatever direction someone was pursuing me. I had several EA/PA's...although its hard for me to say that because it "wasn't what you think". I never fell in love, and even when I say PA's it was actually "just" kissing or a slight touch here or there. I know I know...its still awful. The EA's also were not about emotions...just don't know what else to call it. They were all about explicit flirting and sexual conversations. That is why I call them EA's...because I acknowledge they were A's but they really were never about the heart. I never talked to any of these people about my H or my marriage or whatever. It was all just "fun" (gag me, I'm so ashamed now). None of these people ever had feelings for me either.
Finally after living this way for several years, I realized that I must be terribly unhappy in my marriage or I wouldn't be doing this. So I began discussions with my H. I didn't confess any of these mini-A's I was having at that time. I did though discuss how I wanted some passion and wanted him to pursue me, something he had never done in our relationship. All these other guys pursued me, but he didn't, and that was what I wanted. I wanted it from him. I laid it out on the table exactly what I wanted/needed. Dates, pursuit, letters and emails, compliments, and good passionate sex. I did not have an A going on at the time I moved out. I had also at that time dropped all the loser EA people and had no interest in them.
So I moved out and told him he'd need to chase me or lose me. He agreed that he would. We both also agreed it would be ok to date other people. I know that sounds whacked out, and we never got any guidance, never read any books, never went to counseling, so I never at that time realized what a horrible position it put us in.
However, in my heart, I wanted HIM to pursue me and win my heart. I asked him to do many 180's and he never did. I did not want to be single or chase down multiple men. I just wanted passion, and I wanted it from him but I wasn't going to go without it. So I started dating from the get go.
He never pursued me. Said he would, but didn't. He didn't love me any more at that point, which I cannot blame him. He never really knew of my mini-A's...but he knew I was a flirt and was seeking passion. He also had many EA's because women who had daddy issues always fell for him and followed him around, called him after work, chased him down, etc. I ignored this because of my own EA's.
So I started dating, but he didn't. To my knowledge he has not had a date since I left him over 5 years ago.
After about 6 months of separation, I met the man of my dreams and he chased and pursued me and never let up...we are still together today and to this day, he chases and pursues, romances and sexes me til I can't see...he is everything I ever wanted. My ex-h still owned my heart up until the day I met my current man. After that, it was over in my heart. I never looked back.
In the end, (I know this will not sound right to many of you) but I know I did my ex-h a favor. He was not happy and not in love with me, but lacked the backbone to leave me. So he was a horrible husband (passive agressive) until I left first. Then he could blame me for ruining his life and look like the victim, and he would never have to look like a failure to his friends and family because I was the one who left. Never mind the fact that he hated me and secretly wished I would die or leave him, but anyway.
How are my kids toward H? Unfortunately, he turned into a jackass to them the day I left the house. I can't explain it, but apparently my son looks too much like me and my ex-h transferred all his hate toward me upon our son. My daughter was in college so she didn't catch that much of the hell, but ex-h did also let her down in many ways.
They both really took an emotional beating by him and they have never fully recovered from it. However, they do see him and act like nothing is wrong, which is typical for children to do. They do talk to me though, about him and his failings to them and to me. I just let them talk and am supportive, and I usually gently defend him, and they know I will never trash him, so they won't just go off on him. Instead, they will just tell me when they have an epiphany about him or something he did (the stories are long and I don't share them on the board), and I will ask if they want to go to a counselor about it...they usually decline but sometimes they do.
New relationship....yes it just happened naturally and was not difficult, except for the fact that I was separated, not divorced, so it was hard for my new man to be dating a married girl and not feel like an ass. However he saw first hand how my ex-h was treating me, and never felt like he was stealing someone's wife. After he and I were seriously dating, I could no longer go on being married to someone else and I initiated the divorce...but by then it was obvioulsy inevitable. As with everything else in our marriage, I had to take care of the divorce, find us both lawyers, figure out how to pay for everything, figure out how to split everything...and then even after that I gave him more than an equitable split, hoping it would be an act of grace on my part that might create a little friendship between us again. Nope. He just continued to hate me and crap on our son...he took the money and ran and to this day doesn't have anything to do with me.
Very recently I sent him a "closure" letter and told him all the things I had done wrong in our marriage and how sorry I was. I did not point any finger at him, just talked about my side of the table. It was important to my psyche to do this. He wrote back and admitted some of the things he regrets too and it was actually very heart felt. I can see he has emotionally grown a lot since then which did warm my heart. However, we haven't spoken since so it may have healed our hearts a tiny bit but certainly didn't mend any bridges. That is ok, though. My heart feels much better.
So it sounds like my sitch is a lot different than yours...I don't know if my story helps you at all. Feel free to ask more questions.
I have been following your thread for some time now and this has been one of the reasons why I was prompted to sign up this community. I seek to you for clarity. Maybe what you will say to me can help me understand our sitch better.
I've been married 13 years last Feb 2009. In early Jan, I discovered my husband's affair (running six months at that time). It was more of an emotional affair but they have been physical too. He told me he loves her and is into her.
The last four months had been a roller coaster ride for both of us. We continued to live together after I found out but he continued his affair after that. Most days we were fine and felt that our communication was better than ever, but there were at least four instances in the last four months where we almost parted with anger in our hearts.
Yesterday, my husband has finally decided to move out. He now lives with a friend (male) some an hour and half drive's away. He says, this moving out doesn't mean he has already made a choice (her or me). I have not asked for an ultimatum, not once. Knowing my husband, ultimatum's will just make him make the wrong decisions. Though I did tell him from the beginning that the affair was not okay, I couldn't force him to give it up knowing that coercion will not work.
Before he left, he told me that he wants to be on his own to really think about stuff and find himself. There were things he said that told me he has somehow understood the weight and effect of the affair in our marriage. He hinted that this separation could be the thing that would save our marriage, and said that he will want to move back for good for the right reasons (and not just because they fought). He is looking for that reason, among other things.
Before he left, he told me he still loves me. He hasn't said that to me since January. Though he tells her this at least everyday when they talk on IM or send SMS to each other (I sometimes catch him), he also told me yesterday that things have changed for the two of them and that they have often been fighting (and we've been fighting less and less).
In all honesty, he and I know the future with OW and him is kinda bleak. There's just too much obstacles between them. But knowing she has his heart is what crushes me. I still believe he favors her over me...it's just what I feel sometimes, I'm the option and the second choice. I tell him this and he doesn't deny it but says that I've assumed too much.
My husband is a lot like you....he loves the chase, he loves to feel he's appreciated, and he loves that you'd show it. The OW was able to give him that the early months of their relationship, something I have failed to give him after 13 years together (he says I got too comfortable). Now that we're separated, I cannot deny I terribly miss him. Do I give him the space and communicate with him less...so he can think? Or do I initiate the chase, knowing there's this other person he's also interested in? What should I avoid so that we don't drift apart during the separation? We have agreed to meet at least once a week though. What else must I do to help him lift the fog?
Thank you very much for your insights.
Me - BS 36 years old Him - WS 37 years old OW - 28 years old Dday 1/2/08 Married - 13 years Son -11 years old Puppy gifted by him - 4 months Separated - 04/24/08
