Hello all. I have been around the boards a bit, but am mostly over at SSM. I pop in on this forum now and then, hoping maybe I can help. I want to help because I used to be a cheater during my marriage, which ended in divorce (not only because of the cheating but...), and I have since mended my cheating ways and am in a happily faithful relationship.
The reason I started this particular thread, is because here and there I am reading posts from an LBS who has a cheating spouse, and it becomes obvious to me that the LBS is being duped, either by their spouse or by their own refusal to really see things for how they are.
I can understand if you are an LBS and you simply don't want to know what your WAS is up to. Seriously, that is probably the best thing for a lot of people.
But for any LBS who has a WAS that is actively pursuing another relationship, I just want to chime in on a couple of things....
Specifically...if your WAS is cheating, please don't try to believe that they have had a change of heart toward you just because they were nice to you one day, especially when you know they were recently out to see their affair partner.
For instance, your WAS goes out until late on Saturday night, with a lame excuse which you don't believe. Sunday they seem all bright and cheery toward you and you begin to have hope they are changing their mind. PLEASE! Please don't go there. They are likely in a bright and cheery mood because they just got their fix of their chosen drug the night before, their affair partner.
I also recently read by an LBS that his WAW was going to a work party where lots of upper management were going to be in attendance...and because of the upper management being there, the LBS made the hypothesis that it would be too "risky" for his WAW to be up to "no good" at this party. Again PLEASE! Please don't underestimate how easy it is to sneak off to a closet or under a stairwell and play post office if you are in an affair. And not only that, but many of those upper management people will be the first ones to be after your wife, or to turn their backs when their collegue is after your wife. There really is no place, no party, no area, no circumstance that is "safe" from affair stuff. Shenanigans can be gotten up to no matter where you are, no matter who is there.
I'm not proud of my past. It has taken me many years of self study to figure out what the heck was wrong with me. But I really get it now and am truly faithful now...so I want to do whatever I can to help other people with this. If you have questions for me, I will try to help. I can describe a fairly accurate picture of how most affairs start, how they develop, and what it takes to break them up. But the key will be, if you are an LBS with a cheating spouse, what are you willing to hear? Are you willing to face the ugliest truths you've ever been faced with? Are you ready to really accept that your WAS has done this horrid thing to you, and continues to do it to you?
I know that many need to stay in denial for their own reasons, and I don't blame them at all. Its the people who are trying to do the right thing by their marriage and really trying to work on things, that I feel bad for when I read things like the examples I made above. For those that want to face this thing dead on, I am here to help if I can. Ask me anything. But be prepared for the truth so you can really make your choices accordingly.
I'm sorry for all you are going through, all of you. It is heartwarming (or heartbreaking, not sure) to see all the people in this forum (on all sections) trying so hard to save their marriages. Its inspiring, really. And if your WAS could truly understand the amount of love pouring out of you for them, they possibly could break free from that fog and come back around. Sadly though, a lot of them will not ever truly understand it and will wander through life in their fog.
I hope this post isn't offensive to anyone. If you are offended, please don't take it out on me. I know you are in a lot of pain, but I'm truly here to help and that's all. I really have mended my ways and I understand now how it all happened. I'm on the good team now. If I can help you understand anything about affairs or your sitch, let me know.
I honestly don't think that many of them truly want to know. "Ignorance is bliss" and all that rot. I try to warn of the red flags, and I get moderators telling me to knock it off, and the LBSs seem to say "I don't think she's having an affair, because I asked her, and she said she wasn't," or "I don't think he's cheating on me because he's not that type."
Thanks Puppy. I see your posts where you are gently trying to say these things, and I applaud your courage as well.
Its so hard and painful, and I totally understand wanting to be in denial.
But I figured I would open my own thread for those who really want to ask a former cheater straight up, any question they want. This way, I won't impose on other threads of LBS's who want to stay in denial. Instead, anyone who really wants an opinion can come here and I'll (as gently as possible) tell them the truth as I see it...without the denial filter. Only those who want to hear it will really ask me, I'm sure.
If moderators close down my thread, well, ok...its their board and all....just thought I would try.
Thanks for joining this forum, I can only speak for myself but any help I can get is appreciated. So I have some questions:
From a WS point of view, do you believe that DB can be effective or is it just a waste of time?
Second, just to share a bit of my sitch, my H has had a long term A with OW. He now has a child with her. We separated in 2005 for about 6 weeks, got back together, then I left in 2006, and now he has left which he says I put him out. OW got married which we believe was because H was married. By the way, H was actually seeing OW before we got married. Now her H has left, and my H and her are living together. Although he has not fessed up to that. I could tell that H is still on the fence and I don't think he has really committed to being with OW. He doesn't want to get a divorce but he doesn't want to do what it takes to make the M work either. He uses his son and says that he has to do and be in contact with OW for his son. I do know him and OW had to mantain contact but it was a daily thing several times a day etc. Anyway, now that H is gone I can't help but feel hopeless at times like I am wasting my time. H and I have been together 14-15 years. What do you think?
Vicky, as for DB, when I got separated, I wished and prayed and asked my ex-h to please do something to try to keep me around. So in my case, ANY program designed to bring the partner back would have worked on me. It is definitely NOT a waste of time and is successful many times. It would have been on me. But my ex-h never tried...not necessarily his fault because we were both so ignorant of anything to do with successful marriages. Just sayin', my head and thinking could have been turned around if he had tried anything.
As for your sitch...my honest opinion is that your H is lost and drifting, and there is really nothing *you* can do that you haven't already done. You made the good fight and did all the DB-ing you could. He hasn't done the other part, so at this point, it seems like nothing but heartache for you to continue to try to get him back. In a case like yours, I think part of this for him is the drama. He likes it or is addicted to it or for some reason cannot escape it. I have known many drama addicts, and this is a real thing, I'm not just blowin' smoke. Basically, in my opinion, loving someone is NEVER a waste of time. But trying to get them to come back to you if they are just plain totally lost, is eventually a waste of time. I hope that helps, but I don't think it will. I don't want to just outright say "give up on him", but instead, I want to say, "stop hoping he will change and realize he is in the depths of an addiction."
Thanks, DQ. Very true because even H has said that he is lost and I know it. And yes, he doesn't do anything to find himself. And possibly that he is addictive to the drama b/c although he is with OW I know he hasn't committed himself 100% and a part of me feels like he is affeared to commit himself truly to anyone. So, I do try to get over him, but it is so hard. I tell you if there was a pill to take to cure my love for him, I think I would take it. Thanks again for coming over to this forum.
Thanks Vicky...hang in there, and please do remember what I said about how loving someone is NEVER a waste of time. That part is never ever a waste of time. But we can love someone while still letting them go and moving on (or whatever you decide to do going forward).
One thing that I don't see talked about a lot on this forum, but which is discussed much more on another marriage/infidelity forum, is the idea that there is a withdrawal that happens when/if a WAS's affair breaks up.
The short version is this: affairs are like an addiction, and when the WAS gives up their affair partner, they go through a period of withdrawal afterwards. Until they go through and complete this withdrawal process (and assuming they do not strike up contact again or begin the affair again), then they cannot be fully present in their marriage. They have to finish that withdrawal process first, THEN (if they choose it) they can recommit to the marriage.
The reason I bring this up is that I also see LBS's writing about how their WAS seemed "down" the other day, and the LBS is hoping that maybe their WAS was down because they are reconsidering coming back, or because the WAS is second guessing their actions.
More than likely, if you have an WAS in an affair, if they appear to be "down" it is because they are going through some kind of drama with their affair partner. Quite simply put, even if an LBS would say out loud to their LBS that they are down and if they ask to lean on the LBS for support, they are probably trying to mend their OWN broken/breaking heart....but their heart is breaking due to something going on in their affair, not in their marriage.
Affairs almost always include a roller coaster full of drama, ups and downs, breakups, etc. Because the nature of the affair is already slimy and risky, these other factors don't seem that weird to the WAS. They just accept this roller coaster emotional drama as if it is expected, because in some ways, YEAH it is expected to be a slimy road once you walk down the path of an affair. Even the WAS knows this somewhere in his/her heart. They know that the "price" of an affair is the roller coaster, the lying, the hiding, etc.
So - if you have a WAS who seems down, don't just immediately come around and try to comfort them. It is quite possible they aren't down about losing you, but about losing whatever skeezo they are involved with. I know that must be hard to hear, but it is important. Don't read things into your WAS's behavior, but instead, study them from afar and educate yourself on what these behaviors look like....while still GAL'ing, etc.
I can understand the tempation to disect every move your WAS makes. But if you do this with the overlaying hope that they will come back around, then you are going to apply your own hope to your interpretation to their actions.
From my point of view, having been the world's biggest idiot in marriage, I can see through most of the b.s. and understand what these WAS's are really feeling. And it usually isn't about their LBS. Its about some crazy up-and-down thing they have created for themselves outside the marriage.
Hi DQ, I don't remember if you and your 1st H had kids or not. If so, how did you react regarding them? I have the issue where ex is forcing the kids to be with OW because they plan on living together at some point and they might as well get over it. She will be there and they will be there, let's all be happy and get along. This is the attitude he has. The kids know that this is the OW that Daddy was having an A with because he told them from the get go!
Just wanting your point of view. He is also asking for more parenting time...1 more evening and then to make those overnights and the mad dash getting ready with 3 extra people in the way and a 40 minute drive to get to school. He is the one that used our county guidelines to create parenting time and is now wanting to change things because he isn't happy.
Sorry for the ramble, I am ticked right now.
kat
Me-53(and learning!) S24, S21, D18, D17 Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming. Dory
Thanks again for coming over to this forum.