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#1729313 03/06/09 06:45 PM
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If you suddenly had the sex life you've always wanted, how would you behave?

What would you do differently?

What kinds of different thoughts would you have?

How would it affect your life?

How would your life be different than it is right now?

What relationships other than with your partner would be affected and how? (IE: would your friendships be different? Your relationship with your children, co-workers, anyone?)

Do you think you would have less stress, depression, fear, any other emotions or feelings? Or more of any other emotions or feelings?

Would you tell others how great it was, if you had the best sex of your life whenever you wanted it, or would you keep it as a guarded secret?

Would you love your partner more? Or do you think that the love part would be the same?

Would you be willing to give other things up in order to have your fantasy sex life? In other words, do you secretly feel you have to barter with the universe and give back something else before you can receive something new?

In order to have your fantasy sex life, would you need to change your body in anyway? IE: In your fantasy sex life, do you look different than you do now? Are those differences something you could really change, or are they truly fantasy differences?

Do you think your other ideas about the world would be different if you were having your fantasy sex life?

And I guess the most important question, what do you think has to happen in order for you to get from here to your fantasy sex life? (IE: your partner has to change, or you have to change, or the baby has to go to college, or you need a labotomy, etc).

Add more questions if you want....or just answer some or one question....or all of them....or just discuss.

DQ


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OK....I'll bite!

My fantasy sex life would, I think, look pretty normal to most newlywed couples and then progress from there (with all of the wisdom I have accrued with age, of course--LOL). A do-over, if you will.

Since I never had the pleasure of the "new", I envision a period of sex-ploration, where as lovers we would try new positions, act out fantasies, do and be done...all the things that I looked forward to when I eventually married but ended up in my SS situation. I picture romantic getaways 2-3X/year where we hang the "Do Not Disturb" sign out and order in room service because the headliner of the trip is our fun, and not a museum, theme park or family event. I envision trying for multiple orgasms sometimes...who knows what "hot lovers" may lie untapped within us. I fantasize about a world where we have sex often enough to need a menu: quickie sex, blue plate specials, banquet sex....

How would it affect my life to achieve this? I don't exactly know....I can only imagine what it would be like, since I have never had any of it. My initial reaction is to think that a HUGE burden would be lifted and I would feel a freedom and exuberance I haven't felt in a long time. Power and energy welling up from within. A freeing up of creative juices that have slowed to all but a trickle. I would feel normal again. (pre-H, that is...my present "normal" is...well ...somewhat disfunctional).

I dare say my family and co-workers would be the primary people to observe this positive shift. Friends and casual acquaintances see only my PMA on the surface and know me as a pretty sunny personality.

Would I love my partner more? Hell yeah, I think that goes without saying in my case. I don't think couples in a platonic marriage can come anywhere close to experiencing the depth of love known by those who are able to be unreservedly intimate with one another. The death toll of my sex life several years ago was the last straw for my already waning "in love" feelings for my H. I struggle terribly with this today as we are attempting to rebuild lost relationship in our M.

Do I trade chocolate, my pet horses, my life in the country, etc., to bargain with the universe for a better fate. Absolutely not...I guess I just don't think much in those terms. I do believe it's everyone's right in marriage to expect this level of connection--not instantly of course, because it's a journey--and I need to see an honest pressing forward toward that goal. I am presently reading Passionate Marriage, which has stirred up many emotions in me, and has strengthened my resolve not to be afraid to be unwilling to settle for less for myself.

So how does one go about achieving the goal? That is the million dollar question. Right or wrong, this is what I am doing. Reading and taking care of myself. Trying to let go of the tendency to prop up my H and our relationship all by myself, and let the chips fall where they may. Trying not to be so hell-bent on knowing the right thing to do *right now* and have patience. Trying to find and exercise my "differentiation" in the relationship (thank you Schnarch). Trying not to feel like I'm running out of time, which has only instilled panic in me, but still not lose sight of the goal.

Will my H join me on this journey? Only time will tell. Right now, his journey is down a slightly different path, and he cannot understand why I'm not following. I'm still beckoning though, hoping he'll hear me and that our paths will soon converge. Until then, I will try not to go crazy while I keep my eye on the "prize". Or maybe I'm eventually gonna need that lobotomy.

--S

Last edited by silverado; 03/06/09 08:54 PM.
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DQ,

Quote:
If you suddenly had the sex life you've always wanted, how would you behave?

What would you do differently?

What kinds of different thoughts would you have?

How would it affect your life?

How would your life be different than it is right now?

What relationships other than with your partner would be affected and how? (IE: would your friendships be different? Your relationship with your children, co-workers, anyone?)

Do you think you would have less stress, depression, fear, any other emotions or feelings? Or more of any other emotions or feelings?

Would you tell others how great it was, if you had the best sex of your life whenever you wanted it, or would you keep it as a guarded secret?

Would you love your partner more? Or do you think that the love part would be the same?

Would you be willing to give other things up in order to have your fantasy sex life? In other words, do you secretly feel you have to barter with the universe and give back something else before you can receive something new?

In order to have your fantasy sex life, would you need to change your body in anyway? IE: In your fantasy sex life, do you look different than you do now? Are those differences something you could really change, or are they truly fantasy differences?

Do you think your other ideas about the world would be different if you were having your fantasy sex life?

And I guess the most important question, what do you think has to happen in order for you to get from here to your fantasy sex life? (IE: your partner has to change, or you have to change, or the baby has to go to college, or you need a labotomy, etc).

Add more questions if you want....or just answer some or one question....or all of them....or just discuss.

For me, that is the most important question.

The second most important question is:

"WHY am I not doing those things already??? WHAT am I waiting for???"

This question is very thought-provoking:

Quote:
Would you be willing to give other things up in order to have your fantasy sex life? In other words, do you secretly feel you have to barter with the universe and give back something else before you can receive something new?

It calls to mind issues of poverty v abundance thinking, fear v boldness, and safety v risk.

S&A



"A man can be destroyed but not defeated" - from The Old Man and the Sea, by Ernest Hemingway.

Which I take to mean that every man has within him a spirit of relentlessness and optimism. Its already there; he just has to cultivate it.
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Very insightful and meaningful post (to me as most of it I can ditto) Silverado. Feels like kind of a downer though......

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Thanks Silverado and S&A....

S&A you said:

"This question is very thought-provoking:

Quote:
Would you be willing to give other things up in order to have your fantasy sex life? In other words, do you secretly feel you have to barter with the universe and give back something else before you can receive something new?

It calls to mind issues of poverty v abundance thinking, fear v boldness, and safety v risk."

Yes, that is what I am getting at. I think a lot of us have this secret belief that we need to "do something" or "give something up" in order to have our wishes come true. Even if in the form of giving up calories and exercising more....because I have heard women friends say before "well if I looked like HER (insert name of movie beauty queen) then obviously I would have a better sex life, but I don't have that kind of discipline to get that skinny". So there is the thought there that she can't have the kind of sex life she would desire if she doesn't change how she looks. In her mind, looking the way she does prevents her from having a rockin' sex life. I have heard many differing types of statements on this same theme over the years.

DQ

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DQ,

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Yes, that is what I am getting at. I think a lot of us have this secret belief that we need to "do something" or "give something up" in order to have our wishes come true. Even if in the form of giving up calories and exercising more....because I have heard women friends say before "well if I looked like HER (insert name of movie beauty queen) then obviously I would have a better sex life, but I don't have that kind of discipline to get that skinny". So there is the thought there that she can't have the kind of sex life she would desire if she doesn't change how she looks. In her mind, looking the way she does prevents her from having a rockin' sex life. I have heard many differing types of statements on this same theme over the years.

Well, I would put it a little differently. The way I see it, the attitude is "If I make it an issue, she'll become upset, she'll become angry, we'll row, we'll divorce, she'll get to keep the house, she'll turn the kids against me and I won't see them grow up, I'll end up broke and living in a bedsit - and what woman would would ever want me then???"

Fear basically, the fear that everything has to be a certain way, and that if we are forced to change some of the surrounding circumstances to get something we want, we have "lost out" or "given up" something or whatever. Poverty thinking.

I'm frankly still working on overcoming this kind of thinking.

So, while I agree that we shouldn't think in terms of "giving up" things to get the love life we want, we absolutely have to recognise and be unafraid of making some very big changes.

I mean in your own case DQ, you had to "give up" the marriage you previously had. In hindsight you weren't actually giving up anything very much, but it was a momentous change to make at that time. And all the financial stuff as well? You could call that "giving up" or you could call it "making a big change". I know which sounds better!

We all "give up" our youth, our looks, and ultimately our life itself. Or are they merely "big changes".

At the risk of asking for TMI - Did your ex-husband ever find himself another woman???

S&A



"A man can be destroyed but not defeated" - from The Old Man and the Sea, by Ernest Hemingway.

Which I take to mean that every man has within him a spirit of relentlessness and optimism. Its already there; he just has to cultivate it.
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No, my ex-h is still single, and as far as I know, he has never dated since our separation and divorce (6 years). He is a loner and is happy that way. Basically, a woman would have to be the caveman and beat him over the head with a club for him to even take notice to the fact that she liked him. He is very much introverted in that sense.

I think if I had not basically clubbed him over the head when we met, we would have never married and he may have never married again (I was his 2nd marriage).

S&A - am I sensing a change in your recent posts? Maybe things are backsliding in your sitch? How about an update on your thread?

I guess when I was married before, I didn't think I'd have to give up something to get the good sex life...I just thought that for some mystical reason, I was not "chosen" to have a great sex life. Somehow that particular blessing was not bestowed upon me at birth or whenever that type of good luck was handed out. I didn't even think I had anything to bargain with, such was my fate of just being sexless with no choice in the matter.

HOWEVER...I am a very spiritual person and I knew inside that I am able to manifest whatever I want....so I ignored my fear that I had been by-passed by God himself to not have a good sex life, and I prayed for it and visualized it everyday anyway. At the time, I was praying for it to be with my H, but finally I got the message to my prayer: YES you can have the sex life, but not with your H. It took 10 years of me praying daily for me to "get it".

DQ

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S&A said: Well, I would put it a little differently. The way I see it, the attitude is "If I make it an issue, she'll become upset, she'll become angry, we'll row, we'll divorce, she'll get to keep the house, she'll turn the kids against me and I won't see them grow up, I'll end up broke and living in a bedsit - and what woman would would ever want me then???"

These are very real and practical concerns. Real life examples of divorce in pursuit of passion aren't always encouraging to us sex-starved folk.

An exB had parents that divorced after 28 years of a sexless marriage (father was LD, mother was HD). Family and friends looked down on her for choosing sex over the father of her children. The father spent the rest of his life (he is now dead) alone, drinking, smoking, and crying in his pajamas. His 4 kids all felt sorry for him and hung out with him much more than their mother, who they just shook their head at and were dutiful children by obligation. Crazy relationship issues all around. The mother never remarried, but had some sex partners for a while. We know that he was miserable, and he blamed himself for "not loving her." We know the kids were damaged and disillusioned. Was the mother really better off in the long run?

It's not easy to throw up the boundary when there are lives other than our own at stake.

In reverse, I would do just about ANYTHING to achieve a more passionate marriage with my husband (and, also importantly, my son's father).

If he chooses to do nothing on his end, I'm SOL. If he decides that working on our PM isn't worth ME, isn't worth our family, our entire world is shattered. For a BIG QUESTION MARK on the other end of the wreckage. That question mark could very well look like the story of my exB's family. Hence, the careful push and back off, push and back off...

Lucky

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Quote:
S&A - am I sensing a change in your recent posts? Maybe things are backsliding in your sitch? How about an update on your thread?

Yes and No. The little new one is now 9 months old. We ML 3 times since he was born. That's not a complaint (I had quite deliberately taken it easy). Each time was progressively hotter than before - the third time my head pretty much exploded. The fourth time, she was just too tired (and the vibe was off from the start) so I "stopped play". So that put me in a bit of a mood.

Also, the LNO is waking up very early at the moment, meaning my wife feels tired nearly all the time. Our other child has been playing up and become argumentative. Plus I've had a lot of pressure at work, and cash-flow problems etc etc.

Ultimately, I think we are all human; we are all swirling masses of energy - separate from but related to and influenced by our external environment. Therefore we are all susceptible to downturns and patches of worry and depression. The single biggest lesson I have learned from my former SSM is not to give in to those waves of depression; to be aware of and let them buffet me if need be, but to resist getting dragged off the beach. For me the Hemingway quote - "A man can be destroyed but not defeated" - is the greatest line ever written. A real lifesaver for any man that troubles himself to think about its meaning.

My biggest problem in the past was to wallow in the waves of negativity, and drift into fantasies of how life, work and sex should be. By the time the "tide turned", I was not really present enough to go out and do some real fishing. It is the vast disparity between fantasies and reality that can prevent a man from even pushing his boat out. However, the alternative is to be forever a spectator on the shores of life.

On any objective standard, I have much improved myself, my career, my marriage, indeed every single relationship I have. By a process of continual change, sometimes dramatic, sometimes incremental. I am properly grateful to the Universe for all of it; it beats any of my fantasies hands-down purely by virtue of the fact that it is real.

However, the process can at times be frankly tiring.

But having written out the above - I already feel better. ;\)

I will do an update soon.

S&A



"A man can be destroyed but not defeated" - from The Old Man and the Sea, by Ernest Hemingway.

Which I take to mean that every man has within him a spirit of relentlessness and optimism. Its already there; he just has to cultivate it.
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Lucky,

Quote:
"Well, I would put it a little differently. The way I see it, the attitude is "If I make it an issue, she'll become upset, she'll become angry, we'll row, we'll divorce, she'll get to keep the house, she'll turn the kids against me and I won't see them grow up, I'll end up broke and living in a bedsit - and what woman would would ever want me then???"

These are very real and practical concerns. Real life examples of divorce in pursuit of passion aren't always encouraging to us sex-starved folk.[quote]
Of course they are. But its the constant attachment of all the possible negative consequences to everday interactions, the continual undercurrent of fear as it were, that it is the plague of passionless marriages.

[quote]An exB had parents that divorced after 28 years of a sexless marriage (father was LD, mother was HD). Family and friends looked down on her for choosing sex over the father of her children. The father spent the rest of his life (he is now dead) alone, drinking, smoking, and crying in his pajamas. His 4 kids all felt sorry for him and hung out with him much more than their mother, who they just shook their head at and were dutiful children by obligation. Crazy relationship issues all around. The mother never remarried, but had some sex partners for a while. We know that he was miserable, and he blamed himself for "not loving her." We know the kids were damaged and disillusioned. Was the mother really better off in the long run?[quote]
You'd have to ask her of course. And it depends what you mean by "better off". But on the basis of what you've described - the husband and children were already pretty weird anyway - how else do you explain their absolutely extreme and over-the-top reactions? I would say she should have left much much earlier. No-one "owns" anyone else - ever. We are all just passing through.

[quote]It's not easy to throw up the boundary when there are lives other than our own at stake.

I take your point... but only up to a point. No-one ever died from divorce (think about it and you'll realise that HAS to be true). Divorce is not to be taken lightly - but its not to be put on a par with the guillotine either. My own parents separated when I was maybe 7. And look at me now. \:D Seriously though, divorce is not worse than being brought up in a marriage where Mummy and Daddy are just not happy. Kids pick up on atmosphere, kids are in many ways more emotionally aware than adults. Your son will take his model of marriage from you two.

Quote:
In reverse, I would do just about ANYTHING to achieve a more passionate marriage with my husband (and, also importantly, my son's father).

If he chooses to do nothing on his end, I'm SOL. If he decides that working on our PM isn't worth ME, isn't worth our family, our entire world is shattered. For a BIG QUESTION MARK on the other end of the wreckage. That question mark could very well look like the story of my exB's family. Hence, the careful push and back off, push and back off...

As you correctly recognise, your husband also has choices and decisions all along the way as well. If indeed your "entire world is shattered" (a bit exaggerated IMO) he will have played as much of a part as anyone. QUESTION MARKS??? You simply mean... unknowns, possibilities, risks, adventure even? When your little boy needs to be taught what life is all about - What should he hear?

If you think I see divorce as the solution to your (or anyone's) SSM, you could not be further from the truth. I see the solution as recognising who we really are and why we're together to start with, of stripping away all the clutter that has grown up around the marriage and the individuals in it. Part of that recognition is knowing that at some point that marriage WILL END ANYWAY. It is finite. Every marriage ultimately ends... separation, divorce, death of one partner. We all get left behind on the shore in the end. And we will then ask ourselves... Did we give the best of ourselves? Did we get the best of our partner? Did we really push the boat out together, brave the waves of passion and excitement, or did we just run the motor in the shallows?

And to end on a positive note. You are nothing like your ex-BF's family. ;\)

S&A



"A man can be destroyed but not defeated" - from The Old Man and the Sea, by Ernest Hemingway.

Which I take to mean that every man has within him a spirit of relentlessness and optimism. Its already there; he just has to cultivate it.
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