The part where the guy who's cheating accuses his spouse of being involved with someone else, or insists that he is the victim, is unfortunately pretty common during affairs. I think it's called projection, where the cheater can't stand the guilt and so tries to put it off of himself and onto you. I remember when I told my H how I felt about his glorification of OW, he claimed I had similar feelings for one of our friends, and it hurt him equally. I've known the guy in question since I was 6 and it was laughable that I'd ever be interested in him, so it was clear to me that H was fabricating away in order to feel justified and "wronged." (I guess the good part is that, even though they aren't dealing with it, they are experiencing guilt??)
It's horrible that your H would prefer to let you suffer through 4 weeks of wondering whether you had an STD than tell the truth and give you peace of mind. It's horrible that he preferred to imagine you were trying to trap him rather than acknowledge how scared you were. But somehow once they've told a lie, they fight fiercer than a momma bear to protect that lie. One weekend, my H claimed he'd missed 2 flights back to our city, through sleeping in, bad traffic, etc. His excuses didn't add up, but he defended them fiercely. A month or two after he returned to the marriage I said I really needed to know--had he been with OW? He deflected, he tried silence--it must have taken 20 minutes to prise the truth from him.
In the end, you'll decide one day, there's no point in trying to figure out the "whys." Although the pod people talk and act with remarkable consistency, their brains are just not working on the same wavelengths as ours, so we'll just end up as crazy as them if we try to understand them. I felt a lot better after I read some stuff on depression and seratonin levels on google--at each level of seratonin they behave in predictable ways, with most affairs beginning once they hit moderate depression, etc etc. That really made me see it was not about me (or OW)--it was all just an evil brain chemistry experiment, and I needed to take care of myself rather than become too caught up in it.
I applaud your curses--they made me laugh. I know some people here claim there's bad karma in wishing ill on H & OW, but my friend and I took great pleasure in it for a time--it was very cathartic. I even had a song about the OW that I would hum to myself when I thought about her, and it helped me laugh about her (to break that incessant question of what-does-he-see-in-her-that-I-haven't-got?) And then, one day, you'll decide H and OW aren't worthy of the space and time you give them, and you'll flick them away like bumbling woodlouses. Until then, carry on!
I'm glad your grief is less intense. Coming out of a traumatic loss like this really is a "two steps forward, one step back" sort of process, but as long as the intensity is subsiding, you're ending up ahead. You're a very strong woman, so I'm confident you can get through it. Don't torture yourself with thoughts of him being happy, though, because I can guarantee that he isn't.
Any ideas for a creative curse song to try out in the shower?
I hope you're doing better, after your rough weekend.
I remembered that if you wanted to look at a really detailed thread about the various manifestations of MLC, a poster called Trusting had one up a few months ago which was really useful. I'm not so good at linking things (H is the computer whiz in our house, and I'm not asking him!), and I hear that a lot of the older threads are hard to find now, but it's an idea.
I was also thinking about how most of the MLCers are caught up in mommy-issues. Some do become their fathers for a while, and it certainly seems as though your H followed his father's suit by experimenting with what he knew were inappropriate sexual urges. You mentioned that his mother knew about his abuse yet ignored it. As a mother, apart from that, what was she like? What did she teach him about women, and his own self-worth in comparison to her?
Here's hoping you and the cats are well, and that better weather and better times are not far away....
I am muddling along. I went to the gym monday and yesterday so I feel a little better.
I will look to see if I can find the thread from Trusting that you refer to.
Xh's mother. Where do I start?
Xh told me that she taught him to golf and played tennis with him when he was young and although he never said how old he was, I am guessing around 10. I think he thinks that it is really great that she spent time playing sports with him as if it's unusual for a parent to spend time with their child. His father never played sports with him, although he did golf as well, so perhaps that is why he thinks his mother is cool.
At some point this stopped and I am of the opinion that it coincided with his father beginning the molestation but because xh cannot remember, I am not positive. I firmly believe, however, she abandoned him rather than face what she was a party to. I told him the night that I ended our marriage that he needed to see someone because, worse than the molestation, his mother abandoned him. Not sure if he ever thinks about that.
He did not like my distain for his mother, saying that he felt that she was just as much as victim as the children were. What crap -- I made it clear to xh that I did not agree. She had family who she could have turned to and chose not to. Not only that, she exposed her brother and sister's children to the same risk.
He used to brag a lot (to my sister as well) that he came home from school as a little boy and made his own lunch. Didn't seem to find it odd. His mother worked part time, I believe, but don't most parents who are both working send the child to school with lunch or lunch money? I was bused to school so perhaps I am wrong about that and this was not uncommon?
As a person she is anti-Semitic, racist and extremely unintelligent. She is self-centered and emotionally unattached to her children and grandchildren. In 14 years she did not ONCE invite xh and I to her home for dinner. Can you believe that! Xh didn't take it personally he said, because she never invited anyone else either.
His sister, who is bi-polar, attempted suicide about 7 years ago. A few weeks later, the family had some type of party and Xh and his son went while I stayed home. His sister called and started yelling at me because xh had not once called her to see how she was. I told her that she needed to take it up with her brother and we had a long talk about his family dynamics. Xh called me before he was heading home and I told him that his sister had called and why and then we hung up. His mother phoned almost immediately and wanted to be sure that I had not let the cat out of the bag that she had not been invited to a family gathering. I guess she was afraid her daughter might ruin the party by slicing her wrists over the pizza.
Same sister had and survived breast cancer about 6 years ago. The family has never talked about it. Xh never called her and actually told me once that he isn't sure he believes that she really did have cancer. I have a feeling the rest of the family has the same thought. Unbelievable.
Shortly after we married xh had jaw surgery. Not ONE member of his family called me to see how he was -- I had to call them and they all seemed surprised that I had.
I asked his mother if she could come and look after him for two days because I had just started a new job and couldn't get the time off and she said she had plans to play cards! Cards! So I asked if she could watch him one day and I would get my mother the other day. She agreed. When I came home she practically knocked me over trying to get out the door and told me that I was out of ice (he needed it for the swelling). I told her I would try to find the recipe and slammed the door. Xh was disheveled, hungry and unhappy. When I came home the next day when my mom was looking after him, he was scrubbed and shiny, the sheets were clean and tightly tucked in, he was fed and happy. He wrote on his pad that he wished my mom was his mom.
She never called when we had xh's son to speak with him or maybe come to town to take him out to dinner or a movie. In fact, I can count on one hand the number of times she called our home at all.
When xh's brother called her to ask her to his daughter's ballet recital she declined. What kind of grandmother doesn't go to ballet recitals? We all hate them but we go! Xh and his brother laughed about it because it was obviously typical.
She separated from xh's father a few months after the abuse was revealed in 1997 but only because the children all made it clear they were not going to be seeing the father again, so she would be left all alone with him. She started dating some guy around the time that my brother died. I had never met him and she proudly brought him over to me at funeral home to introduce her new boyfriend. Who the Hell brings a date to a funeral? If she didn't want to drive alone, he should have gone to a coffee shop and met her afterwards. I was outraged and freaked out on xh but, naturally, he said nothing to her because that would mean having to have an unpleasant conversation.
Well I could go on and on and on but, as you can read, I am not fond of my XMIL. She told xh after we split that I was cold to her. She's luckly I never told her what I think of her and then knocked her teeth down her throat.
So, no, she was not a good mother and certainly didn't teach him to have the regard and respect for woman. I really feel that a lot of xh's emotionally detachment and lack of empathy is genetic from her and exacerbated by the abuse at the hands of both her and his father.
I hope you and your family are well. It's sunny here today but I think they are forecasting snow for early next week.
Sorry about the typos above. I guess I can't type when I'm worked up!
I found the thread you referred to and it was interesting. I guess I can rest assured that there will be no apology forthcoming from xh. Given his family issues he is going to spin forever and never face his demons or reflect on what he has done.
One of the comments unrelated to mothers or parents that stood out was someone mentioned that their estranged spouse had travelled a lot since their split.
I found that interesting because my xh also took two trips with OW within six months -- both of which he charged to his credit card. We only ever went on a vacation if I planned it, made all of the arrangements, and I always paid my own way.
It's amazing how much better a workout makes us feel, isn't it--keep it up!!
As for xh's mother--wow! I mean WOW!! What an unbelievable piece of work she was. It sounds as though she had almost no maternal instincts at all. You ask what sort of grandmother doesn't go to ballet recitals or spend time with her grandson or help her own children out when they're unwell. I'd say, it's the sort of woman who lives so much in her own world that she has little sense of what "normal" people do. I can only assume that her own family of origin modelled selfish, un-child-friendly behaviour, and she never learned better.
And yet, your stories suggest that XH's sister could identify problematic family dynamics, and his brother was a better parent to his daughters than the example he'd been given--sometimes I wonder how it is that some people rise above their childhood environment, while others keep stuck repeating generational mistakes?
Essentially, your XH was never mothered. Somewhere in the back of my mind I remember having read about the drastic effects on men of never having been mothered, and I THINK it was that they never got past that little-child stage of me-me-me-me, to a place where they could respect and empathize with others. So the selfishness may be genetic, or it may also be from never really having had his needs met. You're right--he really needs therapy for what his mother did as well as his father before he can truly be happy. But what a heap of garbage to wade through!
I had issues with my MIL almost from the time we met, especially when her controlling ways impacted our married life or our kids. But my H did just like your XH, defending and minimizing and laughing off a few memories that were closer to abuse than humour. Also, if it came to a toss-up between "obeying" her or doing what I wanted, he was unable to resist her, which just made me furious. It also spelled doom for our marriage, at least in its initial state.
When she died, I couldn't believe how everybody in the family talked about her as though she were almost saintly--not that she hadn't also been generous and thoughtful, it's just that they seemed in a huge rush to erase all the rotten things. Partway through counselling, H wondered what had precipitated the MLC. I gently tossed out the idea of his mom, but he refused to entertain that. It was a year later, when he began to admit that some of her treatment of him had been abuse, that I knew progress had been made. It's sad that these sons would rather go down the MLC sinkhole fighting for their mother's honour than admit she was imperfect and so keep a grip on themselves.
I'm curious--this family sounds like one that generally keeps its imperfections hidden. How did the abuse come out in the first place? Were the siblings eager to support the first one who talked, or would they have preferred to keep the secret buried?
By the way, you write really well, and have a great eye for detail--your contrast between the two mothers taking care of a sick man is really well done. Have you ever considered taking a writing class, as one of your GAL activities?
Have a good weekend! And if it snows, I hope that's the last time.
I never met xh's grandparents. His maternal grandmother was in a retirement home when we started dating but xh being xh, he never took me to meet her and she died shortly thereafter. I do believe there were some issues with her parents, but I don't know which one.
Her brother (xh's uncle) is married to a woman who took to me and invited xh and I to visit them where they live in Arizona, which we did. H's uncle is one of the most uptight, rigid, cold, unfeeling people I have EVER met. We argued constantly about politics and the war in Iraq. He seemed quite shocked that I wasn't more respectful of his views and also a little shocked that I am more intelligent than he was expecting. His aunt asked h at dinner one night how he managed to win over a woman like me. Xh wasn't pleased.
The aunt and uncle had a very unhappy marriage but when I spoke with her the Xmas before my separation she told me that they are both taking Prozac and are very happy!
I sympathize with you about your former MIL. You most often hear stories about MIL's interfering in their child's marriage and the rearing of children; constant criticism of the new wife's cooking and cleaning skills, etc. I was grateful initially that xh's mother was so non-interfering. Be careful what you wish for!
I don't think it's unusual for people to have glossed over your MIL's faults when she died. You know the old saying "Don't speak ill of the dead." I think it's even more likely for men to do it because doing otherwise might make them face their feelings and fears.
When xh and I had been dating for a while he told me that there was some suspicion that his father was a paedophile but he didn't get into detail and I didn't press. Obviously no one says something like that unless they believe it's true and I figured he would talk to me when he was ready. I believe it was the bi-polar sister who planted the seeds but his brother (he is much like the sister) also admitted that he remembered something.
One Christmas eve (96 or 97?) they were all at his parents (I was not there because I spent xmas eve with my mother) and xh had his s with him. His s is the eldest grandchild. When it was time for s to go to bed, xh asked his father what bed to put him in and F said "Put him in our bed and when I go to bed I will move him." WHAT!! It made no sense and a big red flag went up for xh and he refused. He put s in the bed (single bed) he was going to sleep in and the siblings went for a cigarette outside and sister confronted xh, saying "You remember now, don't you!" Xh didn't really remember but really knew then that it was true. Brother confessed that he had a sort of mental breakdown when he finished university and realized what had happened when he was a kid/teenager and dealt with it then. He has said one a few occasions (he has three children) that if the 'urge' ever strikes him he will committ suicide, so he is aware of the deep, long lasting damage that was done. The eldest s (who is very much like xh) refused to believe anything initially and continued to see her f for a few months afterwards and then finally stopped.
There was little discussion afterwards among the family although the sister did try to get everyone to talk about it, to no avail. She did manage to get her father and mother to go to see her therapist who taped the session and while FIL admitted to molesting the boys he would not admit to molesting the girls. I think he was afraid that if he admitted to molesting the girls their mother would leave him immediately.
Thank you for the compliment! No I have never thought about a writing course. I've never considered myself to be particularly imaginative. If I was maybe I wouldn't be finding all of this so completely bizarre.
As far as your Xh's aunt goes, I'm sure you wondered how her H managed to win over a woman like her, too. A Prozac marriage--I guess that's settling!
That's absolutely true, about being careful what you wish for. You know that old saying about how you should see how a man treats his mother to know how he'll treat his wife ... though, judging by your MIL, that's probably not an adage you were too concerned about ... well, I was attracted by how loyal, admiring, etc, H was of his M. Until I saw her slimy underbelly and realized he was choosing her over me.... Why is it that whenever you think you've done well in the lottery of life, you always then proceed to get the (unexpected) fine print on the other side of the lottery ticket smushed in your face?
Wow, it's scary to think how close your step-son came to being molested himself. Your XH did well there to prevent that. I feel for his brother, though. I've found, and heard the same thing from other abuse survivors, that we have dreams of molesting our children. We wake up horrified and disgusted, wondering WHY we had such a dream. I can only speculate that it's to enhance our awareness that we're not choosing to go that route, and haven't got that desire. One friend had thoughts like that during her postpartum depression and worried she was really going to molest her newborn. It's good your BIL was able to distinguish between dreams and thoughts, and actual urges, and that he was so determined to do the right thing.
At the same time, it sounds like there's still a lot of denial in the family, though I can understand why it would be hard to discuss it more openly, which is impacting on the siblings' lives. I can't fathom perpetrating so much evil in your children's lives, PARTICULARLY if the same thing was done to you as a child. It must have been difficult for the sister not to have her own abuse verified and acknowleged.
But ... at least all of that is not your problem anymore! If you didn't care for imaginitive writing, I know our local colleges and universities offer courses/workshops on journal-writing and writing what you know. I thought, you're obviously quite intelligent, so it might be a way to meet new people with whom you feel compatable. Plus, organizing your thoughts on paper can give clarity and make a "pattern" from all the jumbled thoughts in your head. For some people, once they've put everything "out there," they find they don't need to dwell on it much further.
I want to thank you again for taking so much time to respond to my posts. Your insight has been invaluable.
I am going to take a break for a while for a variety of reasons. Unfortunately this site doesn't have private messaging so that I could explain further.
I hope that coming here has answered some of the questions that were nagging you about whether this was an MLC or not, and given you a bit more peace of mind. I admire your strength and honesty and hope you find healing and comfort on your healing journey. Keep taking care of yourself, and I hope the move works out well. Thanks for helping me sort out some of my thoughts as well.
Hope you, your h and the kids are well and you all had a happy Christmas.
Just wanted to update you that I discovered today through OW's facebook and she is engaged to xh. I should never have looked. First time I've done it even though I found her on my former stepson's FB page a long long time ago.
I guess all the stuff I read about relationships based on cheating never last much past two years, they never marry the OW, they will never trust each other, how can it last when she knows he cheats, etc. don't apply to my situation.
She wrote that she is deeply in love with her beautiful boyfriend.
It's all too much and I feel like I am back at the beginning again. I just don't understand how he can move on so easily, so happily, while I am still 'here' in this awful place.
