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#1714137 02/10/09 10:49 PM
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I've got to get this out there, and posting it to just a select few, when so many do it, seems fruitless. It's about babysteps. I think when you are talking about people working through some issues in their marriage that looking for babysteps is probably smart, but I'm starting to feel that looking for babysteps is probably one of the worst things in alot of these situations.

Why? Because it keeps you looking too closely at your spouse. In the last three threads I've seen someone mentioning their spouse asking for their W-2 as maybe a softening stance and someone else writing how he talked to his wife for a few minutes about his/her day and maybe a good sign.

People, the WAS is fully capable of carrying on some normal day to day activities with you. Remember, for months before the bomb was dropped, your spouse was either contemplating divorcing you, or was cheating on you, all without you being aware, and all the while being able to carry on a normal conversation. Why would he/she suddenly be unable to act like everything is hunky-dorry just because YOUR world is collapsing? Your spouse's sky isn't falling...yours is. I'll bet some actually feel better that it's all out in the open and the ball is rolling towards divorce. Why shouldn't they even appear happier and easier to get along with?

I bet your spouse would laugh if you pointed out what you think is a babystep. I know mine did. Then she said she wanted a divorce because she didn't want me to keep holding out hope and feeling like everything she did was some sort of sign. Some thrive on a lot less...the smallest thing is viewed as a positive. I'm not saying that you ignore everything about your spouse...but come on, it's possible for two grown people to still talk like normal people even when divorce is inevitable. More time should be spent trying to get back on your feet and improve yourself than time spent looking at what your spouse is doing and trying to either read his/her mind, or imagine that something he/she did or said was a sign. It keeps you stuck. Have that conversation. Be yourself. Talk like your did before the bomb (or hopefully better...by focusing on learning to listen). But don't perseverate....just enjoy the moment, if it was enjoyable. String enough good interactions together and you might be surprised by more than some little "babystep".

One last thing: Sometimes you have to be willing to accept negatives when your needs come before his/hers. Your spouse, who is separated from you may be upset when you remove yourself from his/her cell phone account and no longer pay, but is that a reason to keep paying it? He/She may be upset when you set some boundaries, but that isn't any reason not to have some.


You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
Phoenixdeux #1714148 02/10/09 11:00 PM
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Man, I'm soooo glad you started this thread, Phoenix.

More later.

Puppy

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Well said, even though it is hard to accept.

Glad to hear others input on this.

K


Me:33 H:32
T:16 M:10
S:5 D:3
bomb: 10-27-08
OW confirmed 12-28-08
EA/PA over 2-15-09

First thread: http://tinyurl.com/d7mrpq
Second thread: http://tinyurl.com/dmjtp8
sonshyn #1714164 02/10/09 11:17 PM
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Baby steps....interesting topic.

I used to look for baby steps.
I found myself like walking on eggshells all the time when I talked to W after she left. I hated that and I lost my confident along the way. I finally put a stop on that.
Now I am just be firm and polite on what I need from her on things. I got my confident back. I am me again...!!!

Strangely, we communicate better after we separated....!!

NW626


Me:33 STBXW:38 S:3
It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you fight the fight....!!
nw626 #1714171 02/10/09 11:25 PM
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Thanks for posting this! I have been feeling the same way about "babysteps" and the focus on them. I can't remember whose thread I said this on, but sometimes I feel like we LBSs are creating co-dependent/enabling relationships with our spouse.

The rules for living in an addictive household are "Don't Talk. Don't Trust. Don't Feel." I feel like sometimes we are doing EXACTLY that in our R in order to "save" the marriage. "Don't talk because the WAS could feel pressured. Don't feel- Act As If. Don't Trust any of what they say and only half of what you see."

Anyway, to "recover" from being co-dependent the directive is to lovingly detach. I know it is talked about in the forums, but sometimes glossed over when it comes to searching for the ever elusive "babystep".
I wish there was an al-anon meeting that was DB based and addressed the corner that LBSs will paint themselves into.

My two cents. Thanks again for bringing this up.


Me-43
H-46
M 12 yrs 7/09
T 15
2 grown kids
bomb 7/05/07
H moved out 8/04/07
11/22/09 told him I quit;let's get ball rolling
Mid Dec- he isn't sure he wants D
End 2/2010-Starting to consider piecing
Trixi #1714179 02/10/09 11:53 PM
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It's because the LBS is confused about who is supposed to be taking the baby steps.

Baby steps are little steps YOU take in order to become a better person. ;\)

Looking for little improvements in your S and calling it baby steps is really just temperature monitoring in disguise.


Spellfire aka Mike

"Women do not like controlling men. They respect and are attracted to men who control themselves. They ultimately are repelled by men who allow themselves to be controlled." -S&A
Phoenixdeux #1714212 02/11/09 12:53 AM
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My $.02.
Originally Posted By: Phoenixdeux
I'll bet some actually feel better that it's all out in the open and the ball is rolling towards divorce.
My W and I have just started discussing the D (her decision to D) and after months of DBing, I finally feel at peace with her and accepting of this outcome. Up till she got the ball rolling on the D, I was holding out more hope than maybe I should have.

Originally Posted By: Phoenixdeux
Then she said she wanted a divorce because she didn't want me to keep holding out hope and feeling like everything she did was some sort of sign. Some thrive on a lot less...the smallest thing is viewed as a positive.
My W has mentioned multiple times that she didn't want to do x, y or z with me, cause she thought it might give me hope. And honestly, it would have. Today is a different story - though I don't think she wants to test the theory. If she wanted to go out for dinner, I would see it as more of a D discussion as opposed to a babystep toward R.

NM


M: 48
H: 42
M: 14 yrs
3 kids
Bomb: 05/21/08
Status: Limbo

my story
NewMe #1714371 02/11/09 04:16 AM
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You know, Phoenix..I think you are smart and brave to post this. IF I would have read this post earlier on in the first few months, I would have not agreed with you..but you are right about how much of a microscope and time consuming it is to watch for every babystep when sometimes a rose is just a rose and nothing more eh?

Tawnya


Me:39
H:40
D18/S12
M20/T21
Bomb 10/11/08
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Tawnya #1714379 02/11/09 04:28 AM
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Just like Tawnya above, I would not have agreed with this only a few months ago. But the longer the sitch goes on, the wider my perspective on the whole thing and you find yourself thinking more about the big picture, like "is this going in the improving direction, or in the worsening direction?" It helps me to think more along those lines, if I must analyze things. Most of the time, I just try to enjoy the moment and not think about things too much.


Me:37/W:38
T11/M8
S12 S4 S4
Bomb 10/07
Sep 7/08-

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Tawnya #1714381 02/11/09 04:30 AM
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Phoenixdeux,

Absolutely brilliant post. Like Tawnya, I think this is an incredibly bitter pill to swallow as a newbie. Those who know me, know, in the beginning, I would have thought this was way too harsh, all the clinging to any shred we do in those early days.

But I was wrong. I was so, so wrong. As hard as it is, as gut-wrenching and devastating as it is, we have to be told to stop looking at every little twitch as some sign of improvement. We have to learn to look inward and find what's missing. Find the source of the yearning, the aching and the holes. If we busy ourselves with that work, slowly, we stop having the need to look at the WAS's every little action.

Some of you will get your spouses back and some of you will not. None of you will get them back analyzing each and every word, deed, omission, silence or smile and reacting. It just simply does not work that way.

The sooner you start to focus on yourself, the sooner you will find yourself. Once found, you will be better equipped to decide what you want for yourself and your life. By then, not only will you no longer notice their "babysteps," those babysteps will no longer matter to you like they do right now.

V.

Last edited by VeronicaV; 02/11/09 04:36 AM.

VV:41
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