out of respect

[alexjadams]

I posted this in order to defend myself on another's posters forum they asked that I leave & out of respect for their wishes I will not post on their forum

We come here because we want to be justified, told that we are the good guy & the WAS is the mean & evil one, I'm here to say is do we want the truth or do we want to be lied to and never face our demons & the demons that we have that caused the turmoil that is our marriage.

The truth is simple, life is simple let me explain why we are here...

As the LBS none of us are well adjusted, we are mentally UN-stable people we all are going through something, the most common are alcohol addiction, depression, mental or physical abuse, but we suffer from many different things (all of these demons within ourselves we don't make our spouse do these things, they all ready have these demons), as we are raised by our parents we learn what love is buy watching the dysfunctional relationship that we call our parent's marriage and as children that's what we learn is love.

For me being the son of a hypocritical, self discriminating, drama queen guess what I married, tiring to save my mother, guess what? I didn't save her I made my wife's life worse & brought 3 kinds in to this nightmare with out working out my "superman issues" and then helped my wife with all the wrong tactics no wonder she did. BTW we were both 2 people in desperate need of counseling like all of us on this forum. That's not what we did we got married we thought we knew enough, like everyone else here, we were wrong!

My wife at the tender age of 10 years old, watch her mother bleed to death from cancer & alcohol (good mix huh?) on December 24, 1987 (guess what her favorite holiday is?) so after that her selfish father made her the "MOM" role and then brought in a mean evil step mom & there I was being superman saving "Cinderella" (my mother) that's not what my wife needed, she needed a friend? She needed loving non judgmental ear.

So, fast forward 11 years later, 2 or more affairs from my wife and then me going through the five stages of grief about my marriage.

Have we learned anything? Yes

We are human we all make mistakes
If you want to judge your cheating spouse, fine go ahead you were the perfect one in the marriage right?
But you weren't the one who cheated or left, (yes you did! you mentally checked out when they needed you the most) did you do everything in the marriage you could? (if that answer is yes, you are lying to yourself or you are well adjusted and you are here just to laugh at us the broken hearted)

Our spouses are other human beings with emotions, feelings, and painful histories, these people who are in need of someone & we aren't there for them they go into the arms of the OP & all of a sudden we become understanding, we are ready to change everything that is wrong with us, it's too late most of our spouses are not willing to deal with us, then we come here to whine, complain and throw our spouses under the bus. But wait we didn't exactly pick a mentally balanced person then somewhere in the marriage we quit, & when they went off the reservation we get mad, even & judgmental

Question for ya! If we take a 3 year old child, put them in a room starving and give them two choices of food to eat, Broccoli & water or candy & soda, guess which one they are going to pick, you can't expect a 3 year old to make rational decisions, but here we are expecting someone who we know is not a well adjusted person, hell none of us are either!
But yet we are so judgmental and sit on our high horse because we are the mentally stable ones right? After all we didn't cheat

So when I say "i can only give you the truth, I can't make you believe it" the truth is all of our stories are the same just change the names & details

WAS leave & the LBS waits then, we decide to better ourselves, or move on in our lives, that's right about the time the WAS realizes that they have issues they need to work on & try to come back (but some of them don't, after you cheat someone, for some people it's hard to face them again, hard to look at someone & know you are the cause of their pain) Now the WAS becomes the LBS, as the LBS has moved on & we decide life is better with out an ill-adjusted mentally unstable spouse that now wants to return. We are like "no way, I have healed & moved on" & you have, so you are now the WAS. We all go through this; this is the cycle of life.

Last thing I have to say is love....

What is it, Unconditional, non-judgmental & open minded, yet we turn it off & on at our own whims, who really wants to be loved like that? Who wants a love from someone knowing that there are conditions to it? If you don't do this, I will stop loving you & if you start doing that I will stop loving you. Again who wants this kind of love, yes our WAS are doing things we disagree with and we hope they would stop, but don't they still deserve love? Doesn't everyone deserve it?

You must love yourself in order to give love, I can't let you borrow 10 dollars from a 20 I don't have!

WWJD?? He said let he who is with out sin cast the 1st stone, forgive the trespasser who trespass upon us, any of this sounds familiar? But we are quick to judge them and force them to do what we feel is the right thing to do, why wonder they leave us...

[MrBond]

I believe we all know that we contributed to our marriage breakdowns. The circumstances are all different, however we all share the blame. Not a single poster here has ever said that it was entirely the fault of their spouses.

The difference is you can either work it out or walk out. We choose the positive to work it out. That's why we're all here. Living in the past doesn't help. UNDERSTANDING the past and what led up to the breakup, THEN moving on to correct the wrongs are what we are all here for.

Finding strength in knowing that others are going through the pain you are is what this site is all about.

But we can't MAKE people believe in our own point of views. That would be controlling. All of our sitchs are learning experiences that we must go through on our own at our own pace.

[karen43]

ILast thing I have to say is love....

What is it, Unconditional, non-judgmental & open minded, yet we turn it off & on at our own whims, who really wants to be loved like that? Who wants a love from someone knowing that there are conditions to it? If you don't do this, I will stop loving you & if you start doing that I will stop loving you. Again who wants this kind of love, yes our WAS are doing things we disagree with and we hope they would stop, but don't they still deserve love? Doesn't everyone deserve it?

I have to say that I think all the people that post here regularly are all the kind of people that love unconditionally. Sometimes almost too much sometimes. I think that's why we are willing to forgive and work on our marriages if possible b/c of unconditional love.

We also agree that we had problems & caused problems in the marriage too. I have posted many times about the depression I had for the year or 2 before my H began his PA and moved out. I do think there are more positive ways to handle it: suggesting therapy and/or medication or something rather than having an affair. I don't ever think an affair helps a marriage, and often times is kind of probably the needle that broke the camel's back or whatever... I just think you should work on all your problems and try to resolve them, and then if you decide to D, then date. Karen

[alexjadams]

stuck808, karen43 (sorry you guys are here)

Thanks for your post, but this is not about me & my situation,

We as LBS need to put on our big boy pants and accept the fact that we screwed up, & then when the LBS leaves we want them to change, what happen when they wanted us to change & we didn't, now we want them to change & when they don’t we get mad

We need love, they need love, and we can't just take our ball & go home

when one gets divorced & meets a new love interest & start talking about the "D" and we say things like "yeah I left my husband because he was an alcoholic", "I left my wife because she cheated and when she was ready to come back I moved on"

To me all this says conditional love, and who would want to marry that, so I have tried my hardest to show my wife real love, because I believe that's what is needed in these times

If she comes back, she does if she moves on she does, I can't control what she does, but I can't blame her ether way, I had my shot & screwed it up! If I get a second chance with love (w/ her or someone new I promise I will make the most of it)

I mean how many times have we held childish grudges because they said or did something to us we didn't like, I think back on all the childish crap we done to each other & it's sad, pride is really one of the deadliest sins, right now she feels like I don't love her and after everything that has happen if I was her I don't know if I could face me and accept my part in causing so much pain. But I'm not exactly declaring my forgiveness either! I should go to her & tell her that after all of this I still love her but, I keep coming back to she replaced me, if she really wants me she'll let me know right?

It's all crap, pain & pride is what kills relationships pain & pride!

[K4D]

Alex, you seem angry and/or hurt. I think what most people here are looking for is support and understanding. They are hurt because of their situation. I know I am. We all know we played a part in it at some level. Nobody is trying to avoid getting out of what they have done.

But this is a great site for support and people at all different stages of the D. I know I have felt more comforted here than at any point since my wife wanted the D. Its hard and painful to walk through as you know. I actually feel like this web sight is some what helping me to detach some. Not alot, but some. I don't know why that is either. Maybe its because I finally feel like I have people that can 100% relate and offer support.

This is extremely hard to go through when you feel like you are alone in it. I couldn't be more thankful for this site. Its also better to vent here than to the one you are trying to reconcile with. So alot of times, people are just venting. They need an outlet and this is a good one. I know I have used it for that. Does it mean I blame my W for what she is doing. No. But sometimes I need to just be able to vent my frusturations to people who understand and can relate and won't judge me on it. If I do this to my W, WWIII breaks out. I don't want that.

So this is healthy here. People don't need to be attacked here. They get plenty of that from their walk away H/W and any friends and family that are also against them as is the case with me. I don't feel like I have anyone else to talk to because my W's friends and family are for the most part taking her side.

I know I made mistakes and I am the primary reason why I am in this position. I don't need to be told that. I know that. I do need good supportive advice and understanding as does everyone here. You have to be careful how you give that though. Alot of people here are hurt and they don't need to feel more hurt. They need a hand reached out to them that can help comfort them when they are feeling down and gloomy.

You have many good points that most of us won't disagree with. You just have to deliver it a little more carefully. There are alot of feelings that are very shaken and broken right now. Kind of the don't kick them while they are down thing. Its the last thing they need.

I know your heart is in the right place and you are feeling all the hurt and anger everyone else is. Vent it. Thats why we are here.

Just don't come across as hell fire and brimstone to people. We will all get through this somehow with time. But we need each other to be there for us. If we don't have each other, I don't know how many people have someone to turn to. I know I don't have many people to turn to about my feelings going through all of this.

Just some thoughts. We are here for you,

Kevin

[alexjadams]

I'm not mad or angry, just frustrated, I just find it funny that we can even expect to get a 2nd chance, we don't deserve it & when they cheat they don't deserve it.

Then we act as if we are all well adjusted people, we are not we all have issues we are working through, if my wife is battling depression & I leave her is there a difference if I leave her if she is battling cancer, no she is ill and is in need of love and support!

We can't (both LBS & WAS) go around turning on & off the love we have for one another and not expect anything to happen!

Love is a flower that needs attention not In the past not in the future but now the present & that's why it's a gift!

If we don't appreciate it, why should we even get upset when it's gone (the WAS loves us we didn't take care of it, so {yes it's wrong} they took it)

Look at it this way you work for a company for 10 years killing yourself for them, 80 hour weeks, sometimes weekends, the boss constantly tells you "if it wasn't for you I don't know where this company would be?" But no raises, bonuses for you but it's freely pass around to co-workers, we would all get fed up and find a new job!

That's what is going on, & then we act all surprised when they walk away, I know this if the situation was reversed we would have done the same thing!

Then we want to hold the WAS accountable for their actions, remember none of us are well adjusted people, we don't project our thoughts, we are not insecure, non-judgmental, we don't take each other for granted, & we love unconditionally

If we did all of those things & picked a spouse who was capable of those things we wouldn't be here would we?

What I'm saying is if you had suffered depression, addiction, or some kind of abuse what would you want? Love!! but I read nothing but people complaining & whining about how bad their life is because of their spouse & no point did I read "hey my life is bad but at lease I'm not going through what my spouse is and even though they are broken I still love them and be here in a non-judgmental way" nope what I read is oh whoa is me, no wonder they leave us

I pray to god that if I go through some kind of trial in my life that I'm surrounded by people who truly love me, and understand what that means & not people who run when life gets difficult

Maybe it was the wrong approach, but maybe that's what we all need a wake up call to say hey we don't deserve a 2nd chance, I could see if we did everything right & the WAS still left and even if that happens they still need love and support we seem to think we are the only one in pain & that our WAS has left because of us. We turn away and cringe when we are approached by a homeless person, but you don't know their story, how would you react if you felt you were responsible for the death of your family, you don't know the pain they are going through like our WAS we don't truly know what they are going through, the last thing they need is for us to take our love away & judgement

[breakaway]

What I'm saying is if you had suffered depression, addiction, or some kind of abuse what would you want? Love!! but I read nothing but people complaining & whining about how bad their life is because of their spouse & no point did I read "hey my life is bad but at lease I'm not going through what my spouse is and even though they are broken I still love them and be here in a non-judgmental way" nope what I read is oh whoa is me, no wonder they leave us

I have no idea what boards you're reading then...because I have heard the cries of many the LBS who laments what they've done to their WAS's to drive them away.

In fact...it's been LBH's who have helped me be more understanding of my own H (I am an AWAW)...and find ways to work with him.

It's ups and downs here on everyone's threads...and sometimes, as Kevin said, it's just a place to vent your bad feelings so they go away and you can be more productive with your spouse.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Speaking for myself, I am quite well-adjusted, thank you.

Puppy

[Aud31]

I'll second Puppy's comment, thank you...as to why I've been here: it's to help each other through the tough sitches we're in, and to support and encourage each other in making changes in OURSELVES that give us strength and help us become better adjusted, regardless of the outcome of the marriage. No one progresses if they're only here to cry and moan about how bad the WAS is.

So, how does ranting about how judgemental and blind-to-self we all are help or change anything for your sitch? What's your point? Solutions is what we're about. It's all in the perspective, your choice what you look at.

[alexjadams]

Aud31 & Puppy Dog Tails

When you ladies write your book on how you guys became so well adjusted let me know, I'm buying the 1st one & I want it autographed! (Because I'm like an onion, every time I think I'm good I find another layer to peel)

The point is the WAS turns their back on us, then we cannot at any point turn our back on them, they have every right to feel how they do (are they handling things correctly, no but they have that right, just like we have the right to feel what we feel)

They leave us & when they come back we expect them to just be ready to be ok with everything or be fine. They have been going through pain for over some time & to expect them to come back to a place they feel is not safe, is crazy then we spend time working on ourselves, they spend time running from their pain and falling in and out of the arms of other people, (that is just sad) then when they realize that home is where they belong, we expect them to be in a different place mentally, remember we take time to heal ourselves & they run from their pain, they have never grown, if they come back after 3 years, we can't expect them to be where we are mentally, and think everything is going to be fine.

Remember they are 3 years behind in their growth, we can't force them & the only thing to do is to be penitence & loving