Separated for 2 months... ice is thawing a little

[healthydad]

Wow, CL, I think you just got one of the best posts I've ever read here...Thank you ITH, for sharing your thoughts - as I cannot tell you how much I've come away with from reading your words just now...

And thanks to you as well, CL, for dropping by and sharing your PMA with me...sometimes I just need to keep seeing that in others to remember how vital it is for me as well.

How as the soccer game?

-carlos.

[optimistwife]

Hi CL,

Welcome to the place no one ever wants to be... But look at this as the opportunity to make needed changes in your relationship and get things right- starting with you. It sounds like you have already started that process by seeing some of the things that have contributed to your separation.

That is a first step. For me I never thought things were so horrible that this should have happened, but the reality it doesn't matter what it was to you- it was horrible for your spouse.

I highly recommend a DB coach. Mine (Jody) was invaluable to giving me advice on specific things to do which I am SURE helped save my marriage. It is really helpful to have the insight of someone who deals with many of these situations and has helped turn them around.

Since you are in the first stages of this my advice to you is to not talk about ANYTHING relationship wise if you can help it. Just act happy with your new situation. When I was at your stage I remember the advice to me from my DB coach was to validate my H and tell him that it was a 'good' thing that we were separated so that we could take time to work on ourselves. Ug that was hard to do!

But... my H and I are together again! It has taken 6 months and there is love again in our relationship. H still has not moved back home, but is staying here a good part of the time. I do hope that this experience will solidify our marriage and make us stronger than ever...

I hope that it will be the same for you too.

As one of my friends said- you will live and feel like you have never before during this time... Open your eyes and heart and appreciate it...

[Choosing_Life]

Thanks, everyone, for the support and wise words! I don't have time for a long update, but I had a great day yesterday and met both my goals. I did not initiate contact with W, and I worked hard on positive thinking and taking care of my own needs.

@Carlos: The games were great. I scored a goal in the first game with a wicked free kick, one of the best I have ever taken. I didn't score in the second game, but we did win 9-6 (scores are higher in indoor).

I will try to post a longer update tonight after I get my son to bed. Right now I have to get back to work.

Biggest issue I am having right now is: to "go dark" or not? Will try to get more specific about that later, but just wondering if anyone else here has done it and what the results have been?

[istherehope]

Hi CL,

I think going dark is good in some situations, and counter-productive in others. I am sure others will weigh in with their thoughts and experiences here, which may be completely different than mine. One of the reasons given for going dark is to be able to take some time for yourself to detach from the emotional rollercoaster that even the most stalwart seem to ride. If you feel that you would personally benefit from this kind of emotional time and space, then it may be worth considering. Another reason given for doing this is to allow the WAS to see what life without you would really be like, and also to potentially pique the WAS' interest in you. In my own situation, 2 days was the most that I ever went without contact from H, but I did decide not to initiate, and was able to keep this up for about 2 months, apart from a couple of business emails. Going dark should not be ignoring your spouse when he/she does reach out (unless there is abuse or other boundaries that are being crossed). The only reason I say I never went dark is because my H reached out constantly. If he hadn't though, my plan was to stay dark. In my case I chose not to initiate contact because H thought that I had been controlling, and my DB coach said that it was important for him to be able to feel in control of the separation, and in control of the cadence of contact. This killed me at first, but I learned somehow to cope and made each day without initiating contact a goal reached. I can imagine that when there are children involved you will not be able to go completely dark either, but can remain dim, i.e. no non-essential contact. From what I have seen on the boards, this often does spark the WAS' interest again, although there is of course the possibility that it will increase the distance between the two of you.

I think the rule of thumb is to change the way that you interact/have contact. So, if you were the pursuer either in the R or after the bomb, stepping back will likely have an impact. However if your W has complained that you did not take enough of an interest in her or the R, or that you were distant, going dark may alienate her. Have you considered DB coaching? I ask because the DB coach is likely to be able to give you very specific suggestions for contact based on your own situation. I've mentioned the advice that I got, but I remember that a successful DBer, Pisces, had gotten advice not to go dark because it would make her H feel like a schmuck. If you don't go the DB route, maybe you could give us more details on what's prompting the thoughts about going dark?

Well done on your game by the way :). It sounds like you are making the most of your time.

Are you on FB?

ITH

[Choosing_Life]

Here's my dilemma: wife has accused me of being both controlling and distant, although on the whole the "controlling" accusations have been predominant. My perception of myself as the "pursuer" in our pursuer-distancer dynamic is just that: my perception. However, W has alluded to feeling like she needs more space on many occasions. I guess to bring it to a practical level, W and I have had dinner/coffee three times since separating, and all three were on my initiative. I worry that I am making it too easy for her to be separated from me but still have my attention. I also worry that I am making it too easy for her not to confront her own issues by being so reassuring in terms of the attention I pay her. She has called me a couple times, mostly after 1-2 days of minimal contact from me, which makes me think going "dim" (you're right, can't really go dark with the kids involved) may be the right path. Both times it has been about fairly mundane stuff, but it is contact, and it is initiated by her. Baby steps, right?

[istherehope]

Hi CL,

With what you've said, it sounds like going dim could be the right answer at least for the moment. I think the way that I would look at it is that your W has asked for space (even if it ends up that this is not what she really wants), so it would be useful to show her that you are giving this and that you have listened. From what you've said about your wife's behavior when you have minimal contact, this does seem to be working. I think that in terms of the complaints that she has had on occasion about your distance, you can still show her that when you ARE in contact, you do care and listen to the things that she says. There is a good chance that you going dim will make her angry at first. It seems to be a common theme for many of us that when we start to make changes, they provoke anger in the WAS. I don't think it's intentional, but I know I've been baited on several occasions myself.

Yes I think stage 1 is usually full of mundane business contact, or spew. In my situation I mentioned that we had contact almost every day, but it would usually be about the bank account balance, the pets etc. As time progressed, there were occasions where H's guilt would come through and he would ask about a lot of personal things, but would usually either get angry or talk about how he couldn't be with me. Each situation is unique of course, but I think if you can get to the point where your W starts venting to you about the R, then you are well-placed to show her your calm changes, to show how you can listen and validate. I made a spreadsheet of big goals each month, with baby steps that would show me I was heading in the right direction. For example one month my goal was that H would be comfortable with me. Baby-steps were around the frequency of contact, and the things that would be discussed. With some of these goals there isn't a whole lot that you can actively do toward reaching them, apart from making yourself as safe a presence as possible, but I would look at them more as indicators or milestones.

Hope you're having a good day!

ITH

[Choosing_Life]

Thanks, ITH! I like your statement about being as "safe a presence as possible." It is funny, your post almost retroactively predicted the path of my day yesterday.
1) Did not initiate contact with W.
2) W called in the afternoon asking if I would bring her a bookcase from the basement. I said "Of course," in the most positive tone of voice I could muster. She then asked if she could come over and get some books out of the basement since she was bored at her new place. I said, "Heck yeah" (not in those words, but that was the emotion).
3) She came over yesterday evening and walked around to different parts of the house. I had everything nice and clean. After getting a lot less stuff than I thought she was coming to get, she sat down on the couch (in her "usual spot") with our daughter and watched a show with her (in our house!). "Ah ha," I thought, "Maybe this book thing was just an excuse to test the waters at home..."
4) We took the stuff back over to her place, I helped her get it all where it needed to be. We were done, and we were looking at each other, and I could tell she wanted to talk but was too emotional to make the first move, so I invited her for coffee at a "neutral location."
5) We ended up talking for almost three hours. (Aside: Why didn't we ever think to do that when we were "together!?!?") It was a serious conversation for the most part, with a lot of heavy emotion. She was definitely "Venting about the R." Tears were spilled. I validated and validated and validated the feelings, took responsibility for the things I felt I had done wrong, and kept trying to gently steer the conversation in a positive, future- and solution-oriented direction. The great thing was, we also made time in the conversation to talk about the kids (fun talk, not child-rearing problem-solving talk), to laugh together about the terrible Muzak, and at one point W even seemed to find a sense of humor about the bizarre and explosive way we ended up separating.
6) At one point, we locked eyes for a solid minute. The desire to reach out was palpable; her hand started to move out, then pulled back. I just said, "I want to hold your hand, too, but there's no hurry."

So, wow... I am still trying to process this huge conversation, but overall it felt like a positive step. Knowing W, this gentle motion back toward intimacy will likely stimulate some fear and anger in her, so I am going to stick to my policy of giving her space. I really feel like she was testing the waters yesterday, and I don't want to put any pressure on her. I guess maybe that's something that I have worked on in myself. It just feels right to me that we both have that space right now.

We have another mundane reason to meet today. We'll see how that goes.

Thanks for listening.

[Choosing_Life]

Need a break from all this... backslid this afternoon and sent a text to wife inviting her to have coffee again tonight, which is OBVIOUSLY way too soon and too much, and I knew it when I sent it, and I sent it anyway... we talked, she reminded me that "this is not a dating situation," which it isn't, and now I am just back to realizing that I need to meet my own needs, set my own boundaries, find my own limits.

I feel overwhelmed by my conflicting emotions about all this. Blech...

[Choosing_Life]

So, after W declined my invitation for coffee yesterday, we ended up talking on the phone for more than an hour that night. Convo followed a similar pattern to most of ours recently, but overall was a surprise because I had been thinking her taking a pass on my coffee suggestion meant she didn't want to have anything to do with me (darn negative thought patterns again, although at least this time I realized and examined it) yesterday, which I guess it didn't since she clearly wanted to talk. I guess she just doesn't feel comfortable doing "normal" stuff in our home yet.

So then, today, I am taking her "the check" and she invites me into her new place to have a cup of coffee... we talk for almost two hours, get through a slightly tense conversation about a topic (our daughter's clothing preferences) that had previously led to full-blown arguments. W told me she just wanted me to listen to her vent and I was like, "Oh, you mean I don't have to put pressure on myself (while projecting my self-torment onto W) to solve this problem? Phew! I can just listen to your feelings about it... that's cool."

Anyway, here's what's got me all topsy-turvy... as I was leaving I told her "I don't want this to feel like a pressure thing, but if you want some company for New Year's Eve, you can come over and celebrate with me..." I was not expecting what happened next... she gave me a hug. And not just a quick, friend hug, but a longer, wife-y sort of hug. Unrequested, unsolicited, and totally unexpected. Can't even REMEMBER when the last time that happened was! Anyway, she said, "I hope that didn't feel like a pressure thing," and I just said, "Nope, it felt great!" We said our goodbyes, and I sat there in the car with my heart pounding wondering if maybe, just maybe, there is hope for us still.

I am not even sure what I am doing that seems to be improving things... but I guess I will keep doing it!

Happy New Year, everyone! Thanks for being here with me... this journey is lonely enough, at least we have each other.

[istherehope]

Hi CL,

Just wondering how all is going? Did you spend New Years with your W?

ITH