My goodness...step away for a few hours and come back to so much to think about....thanks to all of you.
NW - my S11 is turning into quite an incredible young man - and I love watching it happen - and hearing people talk about him with joy in their voices. He's just such a good boy - and has such a fine heart in him - he was one of the first people to notice that the anger was just gone from our home...and he still talks about it with me - how calm things are...how much I laugh and smile.
Veronica - that's it all right, anger is her false friend - and yet I think she still needs this anger to protect herself from the real emotions. Right now I'm preparing myself for returning that focus on me, my kids and my life once I get back to LA...at times I've found that being home with family has actually made me sadder than I was by myself in Pasadena...mostly because of the turmoil in the lives of my brother and sister, the tension between my father and my siblings, the refusal of my mother to do anything for herself...and continue to martyr herself for her kids...
KenF - it is that damned if you do, damned if you don't approach - and my W has somehow mastered it...which I guess is also very common with MLC's and borderline personalities...I just don't make it mine anymore - since I've recognized the way it works, I won't play - and it keeps me safer in many ways. Not always happy - but certainly calmer and safer. I hope you come back to the board more ofter...I got the sense the community here helped you a lot before, and I you're certainly in a tough stage now. As for the guilty feelings - it's the other odd aspect of this all - since she does seem to want me to feel guilty for things that I haven't done...but that's not new...just more amplified of late.
Dudess - it was the first time she was in the house since I got the new fridge (at least in the house far enough to be in the kitchen) - so it seems lot of stuff could have gone through her mind about what's different now. The house and kitchen are cleaner than before she left - and there is open space on the counters - I've also rearranged furniture throughout the house...so any of those changes could have affected her emotions to some extent...And thanks so much for that reminder to check her distorted perception of things...As I was out with my son and mother today, I remembered that I had planned on setting that photograph and one of the turkey hands on the kitchen table for her to see...and just completely forgot about it...Maybe I'll just let her know that detail when I talk with her next. Despite reading the Evans book - she still insists on telling me what I'm thinking - and what my motivations are for my actions...when we were still talking - she would usually follow up those words by accusing me of telling her what she is thinking or doing...so she is in her a whirlwind of her own making.
Whit - slow it down some, my friend. Turn that tension and energy onto yourself and stop thinking so much about why she does what she does...it is out of your hands...and your only choice is whether you want to stick it out for her or not - knowing that there are no guarantees...which is also a way of saying, that sticking it out for her - doesn't mean putting yourself in a holding pattern - it means digging deeper into yourself than you've ever been brave enough to dig before - and finding what it is about you that has to be resolved, empowered, and allowed to grow. By the way...in your own words, you've captured a truth (maybe even a truism) that you need to look at more carefully. You wrote, "yet she seems happier to go out and start to date someone else."
Let be be finale of seem...or...to stumble away from The Emperor of Ice Cream...seeming is not the same of being. She may seem happier - but that's the message you're supposed to be getting - it's not necessarily the reality of her state of mind - whenever my wife visits her family, she comes back and tells me, "it was great!" fantastic, wonderful - you name it...and then sometimes I get hints of what it was really like...and I remember that she wants me to believe that she's better off without my - and she wants to believe that herself...but no amount of acting or saying is going to make that real if it's not based on some healthy growth and honest insights...that's the privilege we get from being the LBS...we are forced to be honest with ourselves to a profound (and often painful)degree...but we have the opportunity to become better, more fulfilled people.
Despite reading the Evans book - she still insists on telling me what I'm thinking - and what my motivations are for my actions...when we were still talking - she would usually follow up those words by accusing me of telling her what she is thinking or doing...so she is in her a whirlwind of her own making.
My H used to do that too. I took it as a "well, so are you" retort.
I would say, "What you said sounded like you were telling me my motivations. If what you said isn't what you think, please rephrase it."
She probably isn't going to acknowledge the mindreading, but by calling her on it, it at least has a chance to come into her consciousness.
Hi Dudess, I don't know if I'll ever be in the position again to have an actual "conversation" with my H - but I'm going to have to keep your response in mind...I've never quite put her words back on her like that - so I really like that part about "what you said sounded like you were telling me my motivations..." Happens all the time...
I'm finding a funny thing happening to me right now...as I've passed through the mourning phase of being with my family without her...I'm finding myself feeling even more hopeful about the future than before. Not in terms of us - since I think that bird may have already flown - but more in terms of my kids and my work. I'm already envisioning myself as a professor again...and I really like it...especially since it will still give me time to do the other work that I've liked from the past few years - namely the TV and film script writing - and the fiction writing (though that's not been work, per se...since I've not made a penny from it).
This may sound strange, but I also can't help but think that if/when my marriage ends, I'll be in a situation in which it would be much easier for me to find new friends - and eventually meet someone new. There's a part of me that just looks forward to brining my new-found tools into a relationship - ideally, it would be with my W...but I really don't see that happening...her journey could take her a long time...and so far I don't see any signs that she wants to address what brought her to where we are...and, honestly, sometimes I just want to get out of this before there is another OM...since I have a feeling that's just a matter of time.
I'm caught up after being away for Christmas and I understand your sadness as well as your confusion.
First of all, concerning your "love" for your W. I'm w/you in the same boat, my friend. I will always love my XW and a small part of me has died w/my divorce that I won't be able to revive. It is sad, but true. Will I move on? Of course, and I'll be happier and healthier too. But there will always be that sadness I'll carry around for what was lost.
Thus, it is ok for you to feel this way too. In fact, when I saw XW today, she looked great! Beautiful as ever and it made me very, very sad. My heart cracked when she had her affair, but we were working toward fixing things. However, when she started it up again and filed for divorce, my heart broke completely.
Your heart has been broken too. It will take a lot of time to mend. A lot of time.
As for wanting to cry, welcome to the club. It is a phase and you need to allow yourself to go through it. Don't hold back the pain and tears, but let them flow. It is a good thing and a part of the process. Don't be surprised if you have a great stretch interrupted by a low moment. Let it happen, but be careful not to let it go on for too long.
Feel it, let it run its course, then purge it and get back to living for you and your boys.
Finally, as for leaving, I never thought you'd be going b/c as Kalni so perfectly put it, you aren't close to being finished yet, so you need to be here for yourself as well as for others.
People are gaining as much from your posts as you are gaining from their posts to you. This place is all about healing ourselves and making ourselves better, happier, and healthier for our futures...even if they don't include the one's who have left us behind.
I'm not done w/you yet, and I still need your words as well. So, selfishly, I won't let you leave, brother. Besides, I have your personal information, so I can hunt you down there if you decide to scoot before it is time.
Hello Carlos, Thanks for the thoughtful response. I really appreciate it.
As you know it's hard not to focus on our ex's as we still love them and want that love returned. For me this happening has been the best thing ever to happen. It has caused me to look so deep in myself and most importantly get rid of so much crap. I checked myself into therapy and went for 7 months. I read everything I could about relationships etc. What it left me with is a more kind, appreciative, compassionate life. Like you, I am in transition as far as my career. I too want to do something of value. I had been so focussed on external stuff in the past.
As I move forward I see my wife push and pull a bit. Some days she is kind and then I think I set her off. Today we had a nice email exchange about the kids and a few things she is into. She mentioned that she would be happy to sit down with me and tell me some of her latest interests. She also returned my email hug for New Years. This is all hard on all of us. For me I would love to know if she is softening because she feels I have accepted our divorce and moved on or she is softening as she is feeling something towards me. Please go easy on the 2x4s, I am just human.
Thoughts?
Me/W: 46/36 D7.6/S6 T/M: 7.5/6.5 Bomb 12/05/07 D final: 03/03/09
Hey RTL - glad to hear from you - hope it was a wonderful trip for you and your daughter.
I'm off to the airport in a few minutes - so I don't have time to post much - but just wanted to check in and wish everyone a Happy New Year.
Veronica - I do feel some measure of calm again - a bit sad at leaving - but I think I'm ready to get back and get started with the next stage of my life.
Whit - sounds like you're on the right track. Was your D finalized as it says in your sig?
I'll check in again soon...in the meantime, I hope we all take some time to consider what we're going to do to improve ourselves next...not as a resolution - but as a gift to ourselves and to anyone we love.
Happy new years Carlos. I think my D will be finalized the first week of Jan. had a nice back and forth email with ex. We ended it with hugs to each other (that was a first). I have to have no expectations with her at all and just plug on with my life. I have initiated a few times and it's ok but I think it's time to leave it and let her initiate.
Peace to all.
Me/W: 46/36 D7.6/S6 T/M: 7.5/6.5 Bomb 12/05/07 D final: 03/03/09
