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#81069 09/18/01 07:26 PM
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Michele,
Thanks for adv.
I thought I would get a chance to speak to W with C. Here's how it went.

1) Set up appt with C for Thur. intending to go on my own. W said she wanted to go to "explain herself". W called Thurs had important meeting can't make it. Not a lie she's busy at work.
2) Called C said I'd come alone. C said no wants W there with me. Told him it was to late nothing he could do (pessimist). C said, "lets try" (optimist). I like him.
3) Fri. sent W e-mail asked if she could schedule appt since my schedule is flexible.
4) Sat asked W if she made appt. W said she didn't get chance.
5) Tues. Still no word from W on appt.

My intentions:
Call C and schedule appt for myself.
Don't even tell W I'm going.
Possibly bring kids at later date.

is familiar with your books and methods. Very pro marriage, makes no promises. All I could hope for.


#81070 09/18/01 09:06 PM
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Well, a bit of an update. First off, I found out through her parents that she's been living with them in Chicago. The weird part is (based on my best guesses) I think the condoms and lingerie would have been taken just before she moved out there which makes no sense. I'm really extremely tempted to ask her about that, and it's so hard not to. But anyway, I got a response to her about that email I sent her. I really don't know how to respond. Needless to say, I disagree with her on a lot of things..

(first, stuff about insurance which I'm not bothering to copy...)
I do need the insurance, but then
again I'm not in CA right now anyway, and I don't know
when I'll be back. I have read your other email, and
I want to respond to it, but I am so confused as to
what to say. I actually hadn't read any of your emails
for a long time, because I was afraid you were mad at
me (note - I'm not sure how long she's been talking about since I've been going dark for a while now), and I finally read them all last night. I'm really
sorry about everything...I don't know how something
good could turn ugly either...when we first met, it
seemed like the right thing to do to be in a relationship,
but now it just doesn't feel right anymore. I'm going
through so many internal changes, and I really do feel
that I need the space to grow as an individual. Maybe
I shouldn't even be married, or in a relationship right
now for that matter. I don't want you to keep wondering
if I'll come back to you, because what if I never come
back. And it's been hard for me just knowing that you're
waiting for me, because it makes me feel tied down.
You're a special person, and I really do want you to be
happy, but maybe I'm not capable of giving you the
happiness you deserve. I want you to be free to find
someone who will, or even just to find happiness within
yourself. In the beginning everything seemed right,
and we had a lot of fun together...but now that the
infatuation has worn off, the deeper issues are coming
out, and I'm starting to express more of my true
personality rather than having it masked by the SAD,
it seems to me that we don't see eye to eye on a lot
of things. I don't want to get into who's right or
who's wrong, and maybe there is no right or wrong,
but I do need to express my own opinions and viewpoints,
and make my own decisions about what I want in life.
You may have ideas about what you think is best for
me, but I think I know myself better than anyone except
God, and I hope that you can accept and respect my
decisions. I am really sorry everything is such a
mess. I didn't intend for it to be this way. Maybe
I got married too soon, maybe I wasn't ready...I
thought it was what I wanted, and I was planning on
having it last forever...I guess I just never imagined
that I would want anything different. All the changes
I've gone through this year have made me reassess myself
a lot.

I guess I'm just starting to ramble now. What I'm
trying to say is, I really do care about you and
want you to be happy. I hate that things are so
messed up, because I just want to be happy. I think
maybe we both need the freedom to make our own way in
life...we jumped into a relationship so fast, we barely
had time to just get to know each other as friends.
I regret that now. I hope that we can still be friends
in the future, and I think that whatever's meant to
happen will happen. But I don't think my life can
move forward at this point until I have the freedom
to make my own way, with no ties to anyone. I hope
you can understand that.

I might have more to say later, but right now I have
to shower and eat and stuff.

--g

There are so many things I want to say in response to that, but I don't know what will make things worse, and what will help. This has been going on for way too long and it's tearing me up inside and I really don't know how much more I can take before I completely crack. Should I maybe start pusing for divorce and she how she responds? I feel incredibly alone right now. I've found friends and other things to occupy my time, but I still feel like a huge part of me has been torn away. I'm so confused....


#81071 09/18/01 10:27 PM
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Michele,

The progress I've made in 11 months is basically that we have better communications, he's been hagging around the house a lot more, he includes me in outings with the kids which he had not, he's more relaxed around me, he has slipped and talked about "we" or future things.

He told his mom about a month ago that he was very in love with me (which is not what he said to me back last Oct.), and he mentioned to a friend of mine about 2 weeks ago that we had not divorced but were working on reconcilling (news to me because he hasn't said anything to me).

I don't know if any of this is progress but for someone who wanted a D last October and he has done nothing as of this day, I see it as progress. I just don't know if it's time to test the waters and find out where we stand. Whether or not we stand a chance. He may not even know the answer.

Mary


#81072 09/19/01 12:35 AM
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Hi Everyone:
Michelle, sorry to be back so soon, but need advice
I had decided to back off communicating with ex husband after his last email that you and I discussed in earlier post. Anyway, on another forum there are other military spouses, young ones, who are very fightened about world events, and as a carreer military spouse, I knew I could be supportive to them and felt it was something positive I could do and decided to post to them. THe OW in my situation has been lurking on that site going on almost 4 yrs now, and ex has asked me not to post on there. I agreed to not post anything about him and me on there, which I had been complying with.It seems she checks everyday to see if I post, and has confronted him several times.
I emailed him this am and explained the situation and stated I posted there over the weekend,butit was nothing that should be a problem for him. I also took the opportunity to tell him that I also was afraid about the current situation and the possible involvment of our sons who are both in the service. I told him it seems we can go out to lunch and talk about trivial things but when it comes to making an emotional connection, there is a wall that seems to go up when anything personal is brought up. I then closed by saying , if he was concerned about the boys, and wanted to talk he knew where I was. I tried to make it fairly light, non judgmental, and not like I was pursuing.
I got an email back right before he left work tonight stating," I will try and respond more tomorrow,because things have been really hectic here. Post whatever you need to, but please DO NOT mention the lunches or phone conversations we have had the last few months."
It seems from the response I got, he is more concerned about any reaction from OW, than he is about giving any emotional comfort to me, or having any major worries about his sons and expressing it to me.He seems to be more honest with me than he is with OW. I am going to wait for whatever further response he decides to send, but am at the point where I am ready to totally bow out. It seems his loyalty is with her from the response I received tonight. Concern about the boys seemed second. Anywords of wisdom?

#81073 09/19/01 09:55 AM
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Just as an addendum to my earlier post... I took out the insurance stuff, but looking back at that email it actually is kinda relevant with the way things are phrased, so here it is.

>I need to know ASAP if you want to be on my insurance which I have to
>sign up for this week. If you plan on filing the divorce papers anytime
>soon, then we probably shouldn't bother with the insurance since I'd have
>to
>take you off right away. Actually, I might not be able to take you off
>until after everything is finalized anyway, which wouldn't be for six
>months
>so maybe I should put you on anyway. But, to be honest, I don't want the
>extra money taken out of my paycheck every other week if we're going
>through
>with a divorce anyway. On the other hand, if you actually do plan on
>giving
>things another shot and I agree to it, I'll put you on. I dunno, just let
>me know what you want. If nothing else, I can put you on until the divorce
>is final and you can just pay me the extra $40 every other week.

I still have to talk to my parents about this. I don't
really have the money right now to pay you $40 every two
weeks, but maybe they would be able to help me out.
I got a job with my cousins working on
their website, but I just started yesterday so I don't
know just how many hours I'll generally work or how
much money I'll make. I do need the insurance, but then
again I'm not in CA right now anyway, and I don't know


#81074 09/19/01 01:53 PM
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I'm feeling stuck, and so is W (her word). W has expressed some very reluctant interest in moving ahead, but is still seems totally under influence of PA and divorced friends who what her "to be happy". Her exact expression (it's been repeated a few times) is that she "holds very little hope" for us working out our marriage, but that's up a tiny notch from "there's no hope".

I feel stuck between LRT and the space just beyond where you begin encouraging more interaction. The dim dusk of LRT has not really worked, but some subtle pursuit seems to. She seems to respond my frustration at her not letting me know what she's thinking, like when she said she'd hired a lawyer and to expect a letter from him directing me to do the same. My exasperation at this nudged us into OR talks that have made slight progress. It seems the past lack of OR talks has been interpreted by her as ceasation of any progress, and proof that things wouldn't/couldn't work. LRT says no "dating", but informal "dating" gets us talking (not OR), and being together and close. Arnold has been encouraging that with me. Another example, she moved out of our bed, before which time it was getting to the point that she would really slink away to her side with no contact at all. Now, sometimes I go crawl into her bed just for closeness from time to time, and she reaches out and we hold hands, or drape arms over each other. I don't stay all night, I don't pressure. I'm trying to interpret whether this is "good" physical affection, or if it's "bad" pity. If I appear pitiful, that can't be good, if she feels guilty it's not either. How do you read these things?

Secondly, she's expressed interest in "working some of the exercises" in the book. I think she might just be humoring me, pending filing and starting her "end game". I need to know how to present concepts to her without necessarily giving her the book. Sections like "the beginner's mind" and "Know what you want" I want to present to her, and I want her to understand "cheeseless tunnels" and "taking stock". Other areas I'd like her to see are MidLife crisis and Infidelity, but we are still a long way from those. I need some advice about how to encourage her to set some measurable goals. Last night I asked her "what she wanted", and she said "to be divorced". I said that's not a goal, that I needed to hear something more. She said "to change partners". I suppose that's a goal, but kind of undefinable and unmeasurable. I need to know how to coach her into simple, measurable, attainable goals. Help?

Sorry for the lenght, and it this is vague. I'm re-reading again, and will have more specific things soon.

Thanks.
z


#81075 09/21/01 03:20 PM
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Michele,

My wife has been receptive to talking with me and I have helped her move into her new duplex. She is genuine with me she is playful and we laugh. We have had better union in issue with our children better then ever before. I have a true PMA today and she seems to enjoy my company. I do not over stay my welcome.

Question here. It feels to me like we are in a courting situation again. Which is something I really like because I am having feelings toward her I have not had in many years but am concerned it is one sided. I have to rain my heart back here. She is playful and laughs and talks with me. Nothing about OR talk but about WTC, kids, a little of her thesis stuff. Seems like she is slowly telling me more about her life each time. Am I on the right track here and do I keep pulling back at times having her call me then respond and continue this process.

Tracy



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#81076 09/21/01 03:33 PM
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Michele,

My W and went to C yesterday. I think I made a mistake. He diagnosed her as co-dependant and said she was doing the right thing. When I went to get the car he reconfirmed this with her and said he would tell me so next time we met.

Also,
I got my W papers the other day. She wants a lot including the kids. She has a house she's buying and my att wants me to get an order to stop her from taking them out of our home until an agreement is reached. He also recommended that I take 1/2 of our savings and move it to a separate account. She was really mad.

I'm very scared. I love my family but my W stated during C that she didn't even like me anymore. I read your book over and over but there doesn't seem to be a section on what to do when your facing loosing your children, savings, retirement, . . . .

Does this mean it's over? Do I risk it all to find out there was no hope? It slipped out in C that she knew in March but didn't tell me until July.


#81077 09/22/01 04:18 AM
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Michele,
I've done a lot of thinking since your reply. I reread step 5 and I think that I am probably on the right path. I have steadily worked on who I am, strengthened my faith by going to church, studying. I just found out that I have been accepted for the job I wanted, classroom assistant for Headstart, working with 3 yr old kids. My relationship with my kids has gotten so much closer, stronger. If my h cannot respond or deal with my sons then I know he can't with me. I need to stay on my path of growth and allow him the same choice. Easy to say right now and I'm sure I'll have more of those twists of indecision and pain, but for now this is where I need to be. Thanks for your input, it helps.

#81078 09/21/01 05:26 PM
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RE book Getting through to the man you love. Is this a book for women/wifes that have had affairs and are wanting out of the relationship/marriage or is it geared for women as the betrayed spouse when their husbands think they are wanting out. I would like a book recommendation for my husband who is MLC and PA. He said he want to work on marriage but hasn't been really doing any "work." Baby steps, I know.

Thanks


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