Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 11 1 2 3 4 5 10 11
Lissie #1529434 07/23/08 02:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,603
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,603
AG - WOW. (SG - my apologies in advance for the hijack - my last).

I am an Indian-American woman - so keep reading.

The only moments that I am ashamed of my identity is when I have to share it with people that voice uninformed and insular opinions as written in your post. It makes me ashamed, because they are fueled, I feel, by a deep insecurity of being Indian and having no real idea about the country and culture.

I haven't posted in months. The only reason I am, is to protect the image of something I hold dear - my culture and identity. I don't want anyone here or anywhere to think this is what all Indians feel.

I am proud to be Indian-American. I am proud to be a woman. I am proud to be a human being in a respectful world. I always have been. I have never had to 're-connect' because I have always been connected. I speak, read and write the language fluently, travel there often, and have been tied to the culture here my entire life. I have always had my roots, heritage and identity firmly in tact.

I am appalled to read what you wrote - to know those opinions and stance is what you perceive to be part of any culture and identity. When I read your post, there is one thing that is screamingly clear: this person really is struggling to love something that they are just now discovering, because they need to define themselves. I was always taught by my parents, that if you have to flaunt how you are better, or flaunt your identity, then you are not really comfortable with it AT ALL.

Why cling so tightly to a false superiority when you truly are at peace with who you are? Why 're-connect' when you tout a proud heritage? Why was there ever a disconnect? Is it the "C" in ABCD? I, and no one I know, has ever felt this. We are well-adjusted children of immigrants, proud to be Indian AND proud to be American.

It pains me to read your clearly uninformed post and sweeping statements about a country and history that doesn't match your opinions. My parents would consider themselves failed if I came home with such opinions.

You paint the culture to be insular and bigoted. Everything points to the opposite.

Immigrants to this country believed in the American dream, while keeping their culture in tact....making the experience for this country, their children and themselves all the richer. We can ALL speak to that. It is not exclusive to Indians.

My father believed in the American dream. So did Lissie's father. Every parent does, every parent here. They want the best for their kids. To not 'disconnect' but make something new. That dream meant everyone had a chance, no one would be looked down upon. You didn't look down on others. You kept the beauty, values, philosophy of where you came from and it was the rock for your children.

Immigrants have made a big impact in this nation - for hundreds of years - Native cultures have, too. I am proud of that. And, they made it by NOT thinking the way you do.

The best of my culture I learned from my parents and my community. I never heard ANYONE, all extremely successful, voice what you wrote in your post. I never heard narrow-minded talk. What you wrote grates against everything my culture means to me.

Being a child of an immigrant, and Indian-American means having CLASS and DIGNITY. It means not looking down on others. It means not speaking ill of others. It means that true success is learning to adapt. It means being proud of who you are, an sharing that with others. It means learning to see the good in everyone. It means giving everyone a change, because you were. It means reaching across boundaries to make a better country. It means never shaming your heritage and family by representing them in a ill fashion as you did in your post. It means working hard, and even harder, without complaining, and pointing out that you are different. It means working shoulder-to-shoulder with everyone, because they are humans and to be respected at all times. It means, as every child of an immigrant has heard...."Take the Best of Both Worlds". IT means respecting everyone, where they came from, their story, and how they choose to live their life.

You stated that you hated it that people looked down on you, so why do the same to others?

If you look down on educational status and women staying at home, then do you also look down on most women and people in India? A nation where 60-70% of people live in rural villages and women still struggle for educations and status? Do you look down on a woman who cannot read and write, who has to stay home to take care of her children? How is that different than one who chooses to, from any country? Be honest with your view....read about microbanking, women's issues, the caste fight and religious discord. Have you taken a look at modern Indian culture? It has not advanced because of insular thinking, rather by melting, reaching out, adapting, sharing, and being FLUID.

My point is this.

No culture or people can prosper from insular and narrow views of others.

The root of humans, from any corner of the earth, and the essence of this board, is RESPECT. For others and yourself. My identity is not just where I came from, or a country...it is everyone in my life that shapes me....from all cultures, colors, genders and walks of life. I am proud of that.

And, knowing that, you will see that ALL cultures and value systems really are very similar - and I am proud of that, too.

It irritates me that you make me feel this ashamed. It irritates me that you think you speak for everyone. It irritates me that you think that you have to flaunt your story as if it is somehow superior. Trust me, there are people and families that have worked much harder. Respect that. It irritates me that you separate Western and Eastern, Indian and non-Indian - when that is the very opposite of what is reality and what is beautiful about the very thing you proclaim. It irritates me that you think the worlds are different, when you KNOW that the advantages you have in life are BECAUSE of the merging of both worlds.







Last edited by always_14; 07/23/08 02:58 PM.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 9,400
Likes: 1
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 9,400
Likes: 1
Always:

What a lovely post!

Very few of us are Native Westerners because as you say 'our fathers sought the American Dream'. For me it was grandparents and they came from England to Canada. But it matters not where they came from or to. It matters that we are all part of the "Melting Pot" that is North America.

I'm so glad you stood up for your heritage. I knew nothing bad of your culture but my view could have been coloured by AG's post.

Barb

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,910
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,910
Holy Spit Storm, Batman!

Wow! I have some things to say, but have to run to a meeting. Thank you everyone for engaging in dialog on my thread! I think the most important thing to remember is respect.

Quote:
IT means respecting everyone, where they came from, their story, and how they choose to live their life.


My original post (that seemed to have started this ruckus) was trying to make the point that we all do the best with the tools that we have. I worked and paid my own way through my BA and my MA. I finished my MA in 17 months w/ a 4.0 while working 35 hours a week and being a single mom. I know how to work hard.

I still find it unfair to blame people for not being at a certain place in their lives due to circumstances beyond their control. Our economy is hard on women. Our health care system can easily throw a monkey wrench into many people's security. The housing crisis we are currently experiencing has had a devastating effect on my local economy, the tax base, and by extension, the public education system.

When I was growing up, my culture was training me to be a SAHM. I would have been thrilled to have that luxury, because I wanted to do everything possible for my family. Not all SAHMs come from a place of privilege either. Many just hold that as a value and do every thing within their power to provide that for their kids.

This is a big complicated world. Life is unfair. We all do the best with the cards we have been dealt. And we should respect others for doing the same.

SG


Survival Goddess
"The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they don't have any." -Alice Walker






Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,054
K
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,054
Poor SG! lol (( SG))
I have always noticed that SG was always very kind to AG- I guess when emotions flow , it just happens. Hey , you will lock your thread in record time here! lol

AG you got the attention you wanted- negative attention is better then no attention at all , sadly when you are a bitter, lonely sad person, so there ya go.
You have hurt these wonderful people so much they couldn't hold it in, got what you wanted didn't you? Yeah for AG!! She insulted these wonderful women. Shes so smart!

I border line felt sorry for you because reading your posts , its quite clear even to us uneducated, money grabbin, loser SAHM like me , you are a very insecure and lonely person, who has-for lack of a better term a chip on her shoulder. No one here will say they know what its like to be of a different heritage if they are not, but also no one here has ever judged you BASED ON THAT. Like you judge all of us women who do not have careers because of a few of your bunco buddies. Very ignorant and mean spirited.

One thing because I am sure my post is just snubbed by you. I would never advice any woman to not experience the joy of having a child, never. It is by far the most wonderful experience I have had and proud of the job I have done w/ my son. BUT in your case AG, I would seriously advise you to get a lot of help before you bring a child into your home.
You see it doesn't take one of your fancy degrees to raise and nurture a child, it takes love and patience and an open heart. You have so much to learn about life, so so very much.


Be Happy for this Moment,
This Moment is your Life


Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,054
K
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,054
Quote:
My original post (that seemed to have started this ruckus)


No actually , sadly this has been bubblin for a longggg time lol


Be Happy for this Moment,
This Moment is your Life


Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 9,400
Likes: 1
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 9,400
Likes: 1
Morning SG:

Singin...

"Respect, just a little bit, Respect, just a little bit" - LOL

That is the best point of all. Respect one another.

My Dad always taught me to treat others as I would like to be treated myself. This is a great way to live.

Enjoy your meeting. You are a wonderful woman and can be very proud of yourself and the life you've made for yourself. I'm a fan - you know that.

Barb

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,929
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,929
Well there have been a lot of emotions put out here. I have no intention dredging up anymore ill will.

Always,

Thank you for that post. I needed to hear that. My sons best friend is also of Indian heritage. He will be my sons best man when he gets married. His mom (my neighbor) was the first one over to clean up the mess that was me after my ex left and has never showed me anything but friendship and kindness. I would hate to think that she was not that person.

I would have to say that all in all I lived a very charmed life. I certainly can't relate to the hardships that Lissie's dad must have faced in order to make a better life for his family, but I do know that there is no purer form of love. I also don't know what it's like being anything but a caucasion in our culture. But I do have know that what matters is what we give back.

Since we're talking about Father's and struggles, mine had his share as well. My mom died when I was three leaving him with 4 small children ages 6-3months. Relatives wanted to take us but he wouldn't hear of it. This in itself was a great sacrifice because he was also highly educated with a pretty stressful job. I grew up playing and dancing in the halls of Harvard University and under the dome of BLDG#10 at MIT way before it was encouraged to take your child to work. Growing up with housekeepers there were many days when they wouldn't show and he had no other choice. I say this because his life may have been easy monetarily but in so many other ways it was a challenge. The challenging part and not the degrees was the measure of who my dad was as a person. He was a people person who touched everyone he met. My dad had seasons ticket with four other guys for his beloved Celtics, Bruins, Red Sox & Pats. Two of the guys, 2 of whom were Firemen (can't remember what the 4th did). My point is that your pedigree never mattered to him, but who you were as a person did. When he died, I was overwhelmed and humbled by the people who came just to tell us that he was the best person they knew. We received hundreds of letters from colleagues and friends that we didn't know but had been grateful to have had the chance to rub elbows with him. To this day when I read them, I have to stop because of the tears. Someday maybe I'll get through them, but it's been almost 10 years and I still can't.

I have never written any of this on the board before but the point I'm trying to make is that what makes us successful is what we give, and if we don't leave this earth with leaving a legacy of making a mark on someone else's life, then what did we really accomplish?

People will never remember the degrees but they will remember how it made them feel to have been in the presence of true caring and empathy.

BethM #1529750 07/23/08 06:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 457
N
Member
Offline
Member
N
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 457
Originally Posted By: BethM
I have never written any of this on the board before but the point I'm trying to make is that what makes us successful is what we give, and if we don't leave this earth with leaving a legacy of making a mark on someone else's life, then what did we really accomplish?

People will never remember the degrees but they will remember how it made them feel to have been in the presence of true caring and empathy.


Beth,

Your dad seemed like such a great man.... He is the type of man I truly admire......

My dad was like your dad in many ways..... My dad always looked at people for who they were... Not for their degrees or money.... Who they were as a person....

As a matter of fact, my father did have admiration for those who "made it" on their own...... What they had achieved themselves... He had little respect for those who had things handed to them.......

In the end, my father was very blessed.... He was admired, respected and appreciated for who he was.... The comedian telling a joke at times.... At others, the guy who could fix anything under the hood of someone's car....

I find our society places way too much emphasis on money and not nearly enough on people..........

One more thing relating to my dad.... The greatest compliment I ever received was from my new W.... She said, "If your dad was here, he would be so proud of the man you became and how you handled your last marriage." Talk about humbling.....

NMD

Last edited by No_More_Dodo; 07/23/08 06:09 PM.

"Chains do not hold a marriage together. It is threads, hundreds of tiny threads which sew people together through the years. That is what makes a marriage last --more than passion or even sex!" - Simone Signoret
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,054
K
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,054
Bethie
I love your dad! and now I know why you are the classy, wonderful, loving woman you are, I remember you calling me early on in this mess and we talked for hours- it was so late for you-
but at the end, i felt, wow, someone really understands and cares
and I remember feeling sooo much better.
Thats before I heard your potty mouth LOL

I think a lot of us here adore our fathers, I know I do, poor guy hes out there now on my balcony painting it cause it needed it, its 96 degrees! There hasnt been a week thats gone by since ex left my 76 yr old dad hasnt been here doing some odd job. He is my hero and I think thats why when our ex did what htey did to us, well , we wondered how it could be.
No one compares to your dad, but we hoped our H would come close.

Ok best go get the old guy some juice! lol


Be Happy for this Moment,
This Moment is your Life


Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 9,400
Likes: 1
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 9,400
Likes: 1
Beth: I LOVE your dad too!

Add me to the list of people here who have wonderful fathers. Mine always put everyone else and their needs ahead of his own. He is accomplished and successful but he lives a humble life. He is adored.

I think of my dad and your dad and so many of the wonderful dads on this earth and wish to God my kids had a dad like that. I'm glad they have a "Papa" who loves them and sets a wonderful example.

Barb

Page 3 of 11 1 2 3 4 5 10 11

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard