I hafta say that ebb and flow is a lot easier than the ups and downs of the roller coaster. I’ve been at this for a long time, and I guess the feelings even out once you’ve come as far as I have, and also knowing how slow the changes occur.
I think that we all have to remember that there’s a lot happening behind the scenes. We don’t showcase our changes, so why should our SO? I know it’s hard to believe this. Anyone who has read my old threads knows that things often seemed to improve (slowlee) only to drop right back at square-one (suddenly).
But, they weren’t really back to square-one. A lot happened subliminally that neither W nor I could see.
To wit:
quote:Originally posted by Andy April 22, 2002 11:30 AM onHow can I listen if she won’t talk? (Page 2): I’m not looking for “happy ever after.” But I guess some sort of effort on her part would be nice.
I posted yesterday that W is speaking to TF’s W and that my W thinks that her manipulative tactics are terrible.
Well, yesterday, W reiterated that she’s not withholding affection. She’s just very tired. I told her that I know she’s not trying to punish me (like TF’s W). She shook her head vehemently and seemed a little relieved that I believe this.
She then told me (Lily’s going to love this) that she’s considering having blood tests. She can’t seem to shake her fatigue, no matter how much sleep she gets.
Well, like I said, things are pretty smooth right now. No jumps and bumps. Just the ebb and flow.
. . .and Lily stood up and said AMEN! Andy, if the TSH goes abouve 3.0 then she can be classed as hypoT. I post this because a year ago the scale was anything above a 5. Some labs were slow to change.
It took me almost 8 months to reach a healthy TSH and I was hypo for at least 2,3, or 4 years before getting help. The longer you're hypo the longer it takes to reach maintenance level.
I'm runnining in front of the cart, sorry. I am so glad she decided to have the test done. Now to get her to schedule the appointment. My H agreed to full physical and dental back in Dec. Thursday he finally walks thru the dentist's door. Don't know when he'll go for the physical.
Oh! I have the honor of being your first guest. I am happy!
Before we get too excited, I have to point out that W said she was considering blood tests. She didn’t say she had decided to get her TSH tested.
I’m hoping that this is what she meant since she already had this test when she was overly tired. I’m hoping that she’ll explore all of the possibilities with her doc (including TSH), and I’m hoping that her doc is aware of the latest standards for hormone levels.
The fact that she mentioned blood tests to me isn’t an opening for me to educate her or push her for more or better testing. This is something that she considers very personal, so I cannot probe. All I can do is listen to whatever she chooses to share with me.
But this is a major major thing! She has just shown that she trusts me enough to share “personal” issues with me.
I don’t know if she’s being affected by hypoT or any other hormone problem. I hope she’ll get to the bottom of this, and I hope she’ll share it with me.
I haven’t posted for a while because everything in my relationship right now seems to be on some plateau where nothing seems to be happening or if it is, it is going (as you say) slowlee slowlee. At least things are not regressing and I am not back at square one. But (again as you say) things have the potential to drop back to square one quite suddenly and without warning. As a result, I have been keeping a low profile. Things seem to be slowlee getting better. At least they are not getting worse.
You mentioned about your wife getting a blood test and the concern that some of her problem is hormone based.
When my whole situation started, I suspected that much of my wife’s unusual and erratic behavior might be caused by hormone imbalances caused by going through menopause. She was in denial big time concerning her menopause. In her mind she had absolutely no hormone problem. In her mind, all of her problems were caused by me. (Some of this, you may remember, is documented in my now defunct thread-- Menopause & MLC ).
Eventually, I convinced her to visit a gynecologist and have her hormone levels checked and my suspicions were proven to be reality. The doctor prescribed estrogen replacement. Now after a few months with the estrogen, the doctor has also added progesterone. (I understand from the literature accompanying the medication that progesterone is the hormone responsible for female sexual drive much as testosterone is in the male).
She has been taking the progesterone for a little over two weeks at this point—not enough time to display any noticeable difference in either her behavior or attitude. Unfortunately, we tend to look for immediate results when medication like this is prescribed. But if any changes do occur, I expect them to come at a very slow and gradual rate.
I also believe that there is a lot of psychology involved here as well. Even if the hormone levels eventually get straightened out, I wouldn’t expect any drastic changes. Even if your wife’s attitude toward you and the divorce completely reverses, she may have said or done things publicly which could cause her to lose face or appear to have been out of control if she totally about-faces on issues where she had been so adamant.
Whoever first said that this was a long process couldn’t have been more right. Getting her to the doctor for tests is a positive step but it is not the final answer. But hopefully in your case (and in mine), things will eventually move out of this MLC/Menopause lunacy. We have no control over the process but what we can do is hope for positive results.
I am aware that what you say is true. However, in my case, it was a major accomplishment just to get my wife to go and get checked out by a gynecologist. Even then, I'm fairly certan that she did not mention her lack of sexual drive (which is why it took several months for the Dr. to determine the need to prescribe the Progesterone--he can only treat symptoms he knows about--he only knows what she tells him) My wife was in denial and refused to believe she had a hormone imbalance caused by menopause. She didn't even think she was going through menopause.
I will wait with patience. If the OB/GYN determines that testosterone is also needed, I'm sure it will be prescribed. My suggestion to her that it might be needed would surely be met with opposition simply based upon the fact that the suggestion was made by me.
I believe ANS should consider it a step in the right direction that his wife has agreed to have the blood test. She might oppose any suggestion by him but would probably tend to agree with the doctor's diagnosis.
First ya gotta get 'em to go thru the door, right Andy? If it was your child you'd make the appt and haul 'em in. . .the spousie has to make the move for him/herself.
Haven’t posted in about a week. Not much to report, I suppose, so I’ll just respond to the kind people that have posted to my thread.
Greenbar,
Like you, things are pretty much on a plateau with me. I mentioned my W considering getting a blood test, but haven’t heard anything since. I’m guessing that she’s feeling a little better, and will not go through with it. She’s currently on estrogen/progesterone, which seems to help some of her symptoms, but does nothing for her libido. Not sure if it helps her moods because she’s still pretty closed mouthed.
In the past, she’s been very open with me about her moods and feelings – even during periods of PMS. But in the past year, she’s chosen to keep it all to herself. It became “personal.” I’ve tried to open communications, but it ain’t happening.
Of course, you’re right about the psychological aspects. I don’t really know which came first, the psychological (combined with encouragement from the SSW), or if it was triggered by hormones. My W’s behavior isn’t overly erratic except that she suddenly became aware of her mortality, and wants to “live life.” She doesn’t want to spend her life waiting for the day when we can afford to do things, and end up dying before this happens.
In that respect, it’s kinda hard to argue. But, I want to balance the present with future planning. She does too, but we tend to disagree with where that balancing point should be.
The biggest stickling point right now is that I want to do more things with her. The problem is that our youngest son is autistic, so it’s difficult to do. Again, it’s hard for me to argue that we should do more together since it would mean sticking our other kids with babysitting duties, thus robbing them of their childhood.
Before anyone tells me to get outside babysitting, I have to say that we do things together. We do things with other couples only. The kinds of things I want to do such as golfing, biking, walks, etc. seem to necessarily involve other people. In fact, they don’t necessarily involve me!
At this point, I don’t believe face-saving is an issue. It’s just that she doesn’t want to make an effort to do things with me, and doesn’t want me to make the effort either. (sigh)
quote:Originally posted by greenbar: But hopefully in your case (and in mine), things will eventually move out of this MLC/Menopause lunacy. We have no control over the process but what we can do is hope for positive results.
AMEN to that!
quote:Originally posted by greenbar: Even then, I'm fairly certan that she did not mention her lack of sexual drive (which is why it took several months for the Dr. to determine the need to prescribe the Progesterone--he can only treat symptoms he knows about--he only knows what she tells him)
Me too. And though she mentioned getting checked out, I’m starting to doubt that she will. Another thing is that I don’t think she ever had her estrogen/progesterone levels, nor her testosterone, nor andrenalin, or any other hormone tested. She has not seen an OB/GYN. Only her family doctor who listened to her symptoms (the ones she told her about), and prescribed BPCs. Since W has not returned with any more complaints, I guess the doctor assumes it’s working.
Like Lily said…
quote:Originally posted by lily: First ya gotta get 'em to go thru the door, right Andy? If it was your child you'd make the appt and haul 'em in. . .the spousie has to make the move for him/herself.
From her perspective, things are fine. So, why should she bother?
Which goes back to how can I listen if she won't talk !
So...DB aproach is....you leave her ALONE about it. You act as if. You do what you do and back off already.
That's really the DB approach and you wanna know how I know? Cause of the big wall that comes up to explain why that's NOT the thing that could/should be done.
But think about how that last thread went. The harder some of us pushed and explained, the harder you pushed & explained your side. So on so forth etc... Did we ever accomplish anything?
Funny cause just another nite IGgy said "wish me luck on this truck...wait a minute, I know that's not gonna happen because I know where you stand on it". Yep, that's one of our big long standing debates. And guess how it's evolved to that point? I stopped talking about it either way but make sure he deals with the consequenses for his choices. It's taken a long long time.
And before you go there, we have the same stuff over his health. Same stuff applies. . There are better ways to stay engaged with one another...you know what I mean Vern?
quote:Originally posted by Fille: So...DB aproach is....you leave her ALONE about it. You act as if. You do what you do and back off already.
You’re right, Fille. That’s what I’ve been doing and it’s working. Can’t argue with success.
Most posters to my last thread were pushing for better listening techniques on my part. I guess that “my side” was that I couldn’t apply these techniques as long as she didn’t give me anything to listen to.
Interesting about the truck. I’m in a similar sit, but in my case it’s motorcycles. What IGgy said to you could have been a direct quote from my W a few weeks ago. I’m going to the dealership today to sign the loan papers on a 2002 Yamaha V-Star 650.
She can’t say that now.
quote:Originally posted by Fille: And before you go there, we have the same stuff over his health. Same stuff applies. . There are better ways to stay engaged with one another...you know what I mean Vern?
Yes, there are better ways to stay engaged, but you have to be engaged before you can stay engaged. And, in order to be engaged, you both have to be involved.
We’re at a point now where W wants to be engaged, but it’s not her top priority. I would like to do things together. We have common interests and activities, but she doesn’t want to do them together. We had a discussion this morning that kinda lays it out.
She told me that our dream (yes we once had a common dream) of retiring and touring the country in a winnibego is impossible. Our son’s handicap will prevent us from ever having that kind of freedom, so we may as well take whatever freedom we can now.
And she’s right. I have a lot of trouble getting over my lost dreams, but in reality, we’re going to have to take care of a handicapped child well into his adulthood.
That means that our couples life isn’t on hold anymore. It’s dead.
We both golf. W is getting a motorcycle, and I’m working on getting my license, and a bike. Does that mean we can do these things together?
No. We’re going to have to take turns.
For the rest of our lives.
I’m just going to have to get my mind around that.
![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon}
!![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif){kind=icon}
. There are better ways to stay engaged with one another...you know what I mean Vern?