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Quote:
Do I call her on that number and call her on it?


I think if you do that you immediately set a bad tone. She'll be defensive from the get go. If you can't reach her at a more convenient place or time, I'd just send her a short e-mail. I know it's not the best, but she communicates that way, and you can avoid letting your emotions get in the way. Look at it like a woman you are dating that's two timing you.

"W, I know you are going on vacation again with OM, right before you intend to come back here. Under these circumstances, I think it's best if you don't come back when you intend to. My understanding was that we were going to commit 100% to this marriage, and I feel you aren't on board with that. How could you be when you are still having this relationship with OM? It's my hope that we could be together again, but I don't think now is the time."


In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years.
Abraham Lincoln

It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed.
Theodore Roosevelt

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GH31 Offline OP
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Hi Just_Me,

I am very much in two minds about whether to do this. Even by telling her that I know about the vacation, I will disclose the fact that I have been snooping. She will have no idea how I got the information (she's in a different country and has never told me anything about OM other than his nationality). She'll probably feel very, very awkward.

I take full responsibility for this breakup, and if this A did in fact begin after the separation then fair enough, but I don't see how this can work if she plans to come back to me less than 24 hours after being with OM. This just doesn't make sense - she is definitely in a chemically altered state.

I am sure that there will be more lies.


Me: 46
W: 46
T: 23
M: 20
DS12
DD11
DS5

W left: 01/28/08
Discovered OM: 02/26/08
W back for 9 days: 04/08
W returned 05/21/08
EA/PA - 01/08-07/09
W's MLC 2008-2014 (realised this much later)
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GH,

Do you want to live with this deceit? Personally I would call her on it. If your M is to have a chance she should be completely open and transparent. Maybe you shouldn't start off with telling her you know about the weekend - maybe you could just ask her to begin with if she has ceased contact with OM and what she intends to be doing until she comes back to you. You haven't got long to stop her going with OM if that is what you intend to do.

How exactly did you find out all these details? do you know how long ago this weekend jaunt was booked? Maybe she is going on the trip in order to tell him the bad news and she didn't want to tell you as she though that it would upset you. Going into this with secrets on one side and snooping on the other doesn't feel right to me. Piecing a M back together is hard work even when both parties are fully committed - your W needs to understand that.


Saffie
me 46
H 46
M in 1986
D20,D18,S16,D13
H's A 01/05 to 07/06
H recommitted to M 07/06
renewed vows 09/06
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I read your posts put I don't usually post to you. But from what I read, it is possible that she plans to end it with OM. She may have been as we say, "hedging her bets". She may have sent you the e-mail asking if you are 100% committed b/c she wants to make sure before she lets go of OM. Don't know if that is a good or a bad thing, it could mean that if you had said you weren't committed she would keep ahold of OM as a back up plan. Again, I am making a lot of assumptions so you don't need to listen to me! It just seems maybe she was getting up the courage to end it w/OM and wanted to make sure you were going to be around for her if she did.......


Me-35

Together: 18 yrs
M-12.5 yrs
S-8
D-4
D'd: Feb. 2010

The LORD your God is with you,
he is mighty to save. --Zeph. 3:17
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GH31,

This isn't about fault for the affair or when it started. I wasn't even suggesting punitive measures. Maybe I gave a fair amount of my own bias in this, but my primary concern was what is best for you, not necessarily what impact it may have on her.

You should decide this on your own. It's a fairly big step to suddenly put yourself together again after this long. Any turmoil (and I think OM contact which undoubtedly will occur would probably create turmoil), and she could be out the door again. That doesn't mean you can't try it and see if you can work through this, if you feel emotionally prepared for continued infidelity, lies, and trust issues. And it's possible to be prepared, if you are of the mind that you will be fine if she leaves again. You are prepared to ask her to go if she cheats on you. But, if you aren't ready to share her, and you aren't ready for her lies and double standards, then I'd suggest drawing a line in the sand. I get the sense that you doing the LRT (and maybe the dating) is what brought her around...but that she isn't completely convinced that she should have opened her mouth and suggested getting back together. Would it be okay by you if she left again? If so, ignore the OM, act as if this isn't happening, and give it a chance. Otherwise, I'd call her on it. Do you know for sure that she's doing the vacation with OM?


In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years.
Abraham Lincoln

It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed.
Theodore Roosevelt

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GH31 Offline OP
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Hi Just_Me,

I do know with 100% certainty that she has booked a flight for the two of them to Spain. I know this because I have access to her flight account. By looking at the passenger names I identified OM and by using the phone book (he has a very unusual name that you wouldn't find in the UK) I found his address and phone number. In other words irrefutable evidence.

It wouldn't really be OK by me if she left again. I really want this marriage to work because I believe in marriage and I love her - and I made her life very unpleasant, but I know that without honesty and no further contact with OM - reconciliation cannot be achieved. If we got back together she would need to come to Germany so physical separation between her and OM would be created. However, there is nothing to stop her taking off again at the first sign of trouble. I will have my work cut out for me because this A will not have died a natural death.

Tough one. Would really appreciate your thoughts on this. At the moment I have a very good mind to simply go back to Australia and implement Dr. Harley's Plan B. I also am weighing up whether or not to tell her father to whom I am close, and to whom she hasn't spoken for nearly 2 months. She is also close to him but has not been able to face him and speak to him since this began.

thanks,

GH31


Me: 46
W: 46
T: 23
M: 20
DS12
DD11
DS5

W left: 01/28/08
Discovered OM: 02/26/08
W back for 9 days: 04/08
W returned 05/21/08
EA/PA - 01/08-07/09
W's MLC 2008-2014 (realised this much later)
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 685
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Hi Saffie,

I have to say, you guys are awesome and I really appreciate your input. You know now how I found out about this. I have access to her internet ID with the airline she uses and was actually checking to see if she had booked her flight to come back to Germany.

Instead I saw that she had booked this flight for 2 people and that's how I found out. It looks like she has paid for it with her own money - maybe a parting gift, maybe desparation because she can't let go. But, she has lied to me and when she was here last weekend she said she would be back this weekend "at the latest". OM works for a discount airline and she is therefore able to get very cheap flights all over Europe. She loves travelling which is why she has been using these benefits with reckless abandon. She did mention to me in her phonecall yesterday that she "won't be able to get cheap flights as of next week" when referring to this trip to the Baltics that she wants to do.

No idea what her game is. Saffie, I know that there is nothing I can do to stop her doing whatever she is doing. She left me on 28th January and has been in touch with me only through email. She can call me but I can't call her (until now) and she has been to visit me here twice.

She has kept her distance for a reason - to keep this double life necessary for the propogation of the A secret from me and it seems, most of her family. Her cousin lives less than 40 minutes away from where she is in the UK and yet she hasn't paid her a visit the entire time she has been there because she "doesn't want to have to answer questions about us". That's the same reason she hasn't been in touch with her Dad.

Dr. Harley is absolutely correct when he says people in affairs show addictive behaviour. It actually produces a chemically altered state.

Thanks so much for your help guys. Any further help would be much welcomed.


Me: 46
W: 46
T: 23
M: 20
DS12
DD11
DS5

W left: 01/28/08
Discovered OM: 02/26/08
W back for 9 days: 04/08
W returned 05/21/08
EA/PA - 01/08-07/09
W's MLC 2008-2014 (realised this much later)
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,958
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GH31,

I've been dancing around with my advice, trying to be objective. I'm going to be a straightshooter and tell you what I would do. Is it the DB thing to do? I don't know. Here's what I would do...

1) I would quit leaving so much to guesswork. You and your W are supposedly getting back together, at least in her words, so I would think that communication shouldn't be a problem. So I would flat out tell her that you saw she had a trip to Spain planned with OM and you want to know what that's about.

Then let her talk. Put her words through a filter and see if it's believable. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't pay for someone's plane ticket if I intended to dump them while on vacation. Personally, my opinion is she's trying to pick which one of you to be with. If it were me, I can tell you that I'd make the decision easier on her by letting her know in no uncertain terms that I wasn't going to be second fiddle.

2) If the affair continued, I'd kick her to the curb and then do whatever I wanted, including moving back to Australia if that's what I felt like doing.

3) I wouldn't get her family involved. It makes reconciliation much harder. Once that cat's out of the bag, there is kind of a reluctance on the part of the WAW to acknowledge that they may be making a mistake. Right now she can return without any egg on her face.


In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years.
Abraham Lincoln

It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed.
Theodore Roosevelt

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Firstly, from what you have posted I think that there could be room for error. Maybe she is going to Spain with someone else - someone who is just a friend. Also, even if you saw the transaction for the flights going through her account, it may well be she made the payment and whoever is travelling with her gave her cash back. I think that MAYBE she can explain these things away and if you go in in an accusing manor and then she explains them away you will have made a backwards step in trust and reconciliation. Especially as you say anger has been a problem for you in the past.

Having said that, it strikes me as you found out about the trip in a roundabout way - you were checking about her flight to come and see you. I wouldn't class that as snooping - unless of course you know she would be upset that you looked at her flight account. Because of that I think you should be straight with her about knowing about the trip and just come clean and say seeing these other flights made you feel insecure and could she just tell you what was happening. No more, no less. Let her explain herself - it could all be something of nothing OR it could be that she is seeing OM. Either way I think you would hopefully find out. What I personally don't think you should do is go in there all guns blazing until you are 100% sure of all the facts.


Saffie
me 46
H 46
M in 1986
D20,D18,S16,D13
H's A 01/05 to 07/06
H recommitted to M 07/06
renewed vows 09/06
Going from strength to strength
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,958
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GH31,

Saffie is in the UK. Ask her to swing round and spy on your wife. \:\) Just kidding. I like Saffie's "no guns blazing" approach. I might have phrased it less politely, but I did mean to say that you'd give her a chance to explain.


In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years.
Abraham Lincoln

It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed.
Theodore Roosevelt

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