You know I've thought about that too about them "giving up the kids" to get away from the LBS. It is just unfathomable to me. I can't imagine not trying my best to keep my family intact to be around my kids. I guess that's where the LBS and WAS differ.
Life's challenges are not supposed to paralyze you, they're supposed to help you discover who you are. -- Bernice Johnson Reagon
I gather that W is just not interested in anything that would give the appearance that she and I are working together ... on anything .. even if that were to help our children.
Andy, thanks for your insight. I believe you're right. I need to just let her go, move on without her.
I talked to W this morning. I called her mobile phone to speak to the kids, but she said that she had already left the house and I could call the home phone to speak to them. I said okay and good-bye, but before I could get off the line she tried to engage me in a few words.
She asked whether I had gotten her email. I paused and said, "Yes, I did... ... what about it?"
W asked me again what I was trying to prove by putting S7 on the phone with her Saturday morning. I told her she knew exactly what the message was I was sending. She then told me I needed to be less cryptic. I replied that she was being unfaithful.
W then started to try to explain to me yet again her "excuse" for where she was and what she was doing this past weekend. I stopped her and told her I really wasn't interested in her explanations. I knew enough about what really went on, and I was no longer interested in entertaining her lies and deceit. I told her she was continuing to insult my intelligence when I know the truth already. I've already been hurt enough and now she was heaping insult to injury.
She still, even now, keeps trying to cloak her misdeeds in her fog bank. "We're just friends, blah ,blah, blah..." I started to get a little testy with her, and the volume of my voice began to rise. I apologized for that, and then she asked what it was I wanted from her.
I told her I wanted from her, if nothing else, the truth, but I told her that it was something she was simply unwilling to give. I told her she knows that I value honor and honesty and truth and integrity. But she had proven incapable of it.
W then asked what I wanted with it, the truth. I asked her to clarify. She then said, "Are you intending to use this to take the kids away from me?"
I paused and then said, "No. In all honesty, no, I am not. I love S7 and S3, and they both love and need their mother. I would never harm them by taking their mother away from them. And you know that my word is my bond. I honor my promises, my commitments." "But," I continued, " You have to understand that S7 and S3 also love and need their father too. And I don't have a lot of trust in your words or actions or deeds. Your ability to be trustworthy is very much in question."
W wanted to then turn the focus back onto the meeting with the mediator on Feb 22nd. I told W I had serious reservations about using this particular attorney for mediation, but on the given date we will see then whether this mediator will be acceptable to me. W then tried to assure me that if I brought my terms in to this meeting we could try to work out something agreeable to the both of us. I'm not holding my breath.
There were a lot more words said, mostly R talk, unfortunately. W said again she just cannot stand to talk with me, let alone be around me. She was not interested in counseling for that reason, and she did not want to give me any "false hope."
I told W that I may have had some false hope in the beginning of this crisis, but now I have few illusions, so don't worry about that. I told her at one point that I was done with her, and couldn't bear the pain of the person she had become.
I said a lot of anti-DB things, but I don't care. The odds of my W ever 'warming" to me are extremely remote.
Impressive conversation, Blue. Now she's worried. She has been caught and she knows it. Keep your proof, it is the power that you have needed in this relationship. It's OK to let her know you have proof. It really makes them quake when they realize they are not getting away with anything.
"Impressive", maybe, to people in their right mind, but my W is dauntless.
I started a reply to W's last email (seen above), but I'm going to hold onto it instead since she is just not going to hear it in the spirit it is meant:
At the risk you will take the exact opposite tact, I am going to say this to you as someone who honestly and truly still loves you.
You are recklessly chasing worldly passions in pursuit of shallow notions of "happiness" and "love", oblivious to the hurt you bring to all those who truly love you. You don't really know what you need or where to find it.
I can tell you this:
You won't find what you need in OM; You won't find it in the arms or the bed of any other man. You won't get it from your mother. You won't even find it in me. And you won't find it in your children or your family either.
You won't find what you're looking for in any other mortal being.
You can only find what you truly need in Jesus Christ.
I continue to pray you will allow Him to speak to you again some day.
Yes, unfortunately, it would. "You can't teach an infidel."
There is, however, some evidence that suggests that periodic little "truth darts" CAN and DO get thru the fog. Using your notes and your spiritual belief, that might be "Honey, do you realize how incredibly sad your foolish decision must make the Lord?"
"If you really want to know if this is right or wrong, you might want to ask yourself -- honestly -- if you have a peace about your boyfriend when you pray about it." (and then walk out)
I really appreciate your words of wisdom. It was only last night that I came across Paul's message to the Thessalonians where he advises keeping our words short and succinct.
I have taken note of your various "truth darts" in your advice to others as well, and realize I need to be a bit less verbose, especially in dealing with an "infidel" who has little tolerance for one word from me, let alone many.
Brevity is the soul of wit, as they say, and of getting one's point across.
Thanks, and please feel free to offer any advice or comments, any time.
These are the "truth darts" that I used with my wife. Maybe you can steal --- errrr, "ADAPT" one for your use!
-I will not hide your affair. -I will not financially support your affair. -It's your mess, you clean it up. -Send her an email with STD statistics, no other comments. -Secrets kill marriages. -You are being played. - Your current behavior is not helping the children. - "No contact" means "no contact". Working in close quarters with someone who's admitted being attracted to you, and vice-versa, is inappropriate in a HEALTHY marriage. It's absolutely DESTRUCTIVE in one that's on the rocks! - How will you be able to counsel your daughters one day if they're having problems? To cut and run? To have an affair? - You are placing your friend before your husband, and your friendship before your marriage. - Forget ME for a moment; you are not going to like yourself someday if you keep going down this path. - S14 and S11 need you more than ever.
IF SHE TRIES "R" TALK:
DON'T argue past points with her. Simply state the truth of today.
- She is having an affair.
- It is impossible to analyze issues with the marriage as along as she is having an affair.
- You can't analyze a relationship where one partner is making unilateral decisions to bring a third person into the relationship.
- Betrayal is an intensely painful action for one person to inflict on another.
Even after all this pain she has inflicted on me, including these most recent instances of her betrayals and her persistence in cloaking herself in treachery, lies and deceit, I am so torn.
Part of me wants to walk away myself. Just gather up the pieces of my heart and give up on her. I told her early on in this crisis I was not going to withdraw again, like I did when I was in the depths of my depression prior to the bomb. But she has shown no compassion towards what I am going through on her behalf. It is as if she sees my very existence as an impediment to her plans and desires. So to recover what is left of my heart I feel the need to let go and move on. If she absolutely refuses to work on our R, let alone our M, then why tilt at windmills?
But there is the other part of me that still loves her, both for the person she was and for being the mother of our children and the wife she promised once. I have been having an extremely difficult time turning that "off". Were it not for the fact that we have between us two small children I love dearly, and this family that we waited so very long to achieve, I would find this so much easier to let go.
I also told her early onward that I have to fight for our M, to which she replied incredulously that she could see no signs of it. Never mind she refuses to see anything positive in me or my actions. What message does it send if I retreat now? That again I cannot follow through and do what I say I will do? Now she again gets to say that I failed our M? Can I really say I have done everything humanly possible to try to save this M?
NoCode, I know what you are going through; I guess everyone here does. I used to think I would stick it out for a long time and only recently through some sleepless nights and nightmares have I begun to rethink that. I've read the quote here that you know when it's time and I haven't reached that moment yet.
I do find that my H has moments where he seems to be more caring lately and reverts more back to "pre-affair" personality which may not make sense, but he seems to come out of the fog sometimes recently. I don't know if that means anything or not. I guess that is looking for signs of progress that DB/DR talks about? I don't know if you have any progress like that in your R, but haven't read of any in your recent posts. I think without those I would have a hard time DBing for long-term. Karen43