I am a LBS with a WAW. I hurt every day and yet I take my share of responsibility for her actions. I know that I let her down and that led her to the make the choices she has made.
I wanted to start a thread where LBS could talk about the pain that they are enduring and the fact that we still love our WAS.
I can use all the support I can get. I am trying to be strong, but it sure can be a challenge. I am hoping that any WAS with clues as to the way they were thinking while they were away would share them with me. I want to see things from the eyes of a WAS so that I can better see myself.
I love my WAW with all my heart, but damn if she doesn't make it hard some days.
I look forward to your responses... -B
Me-45 W-34 T-5 M-3 1/2 s-10 s-12 ILYBNILWY 12/26/07 Sleeping away from home at friend's house(because she says she can't get any sleep otherwise) 1/14/08 1/25/08 We tell kids she is moving out
Oh Bryan, sweetie I am so sorry for your pain. (I can call you that because I'm old enough to almost be your mother....ugh.)(lol) Anyway, I will be here for you and you can talk to me anytime you want to.
I was almost a WAW. Close enough that I had my hand on the door knob. But, couldn't afford to live on what I make and knew he wouldn't help me, so I was more or less forced to stay here for a while.....until I was able to "choose" to stay in the marriage.
I don't know if you are much of a reader or not, but one book that may help you to understand the WAW is a book by Dr. Steve Stephens & Alice Gray and the name is "The Walk Out Woman". I bought mine on line at Amazon---second handed for a very cheap price. It helps the man to understand the feelings and the pain of the WAW and it helps the woman to understand what she needs to do to work through what she is experiencing and to get back with her H. That was a lot of help to me. Both authors have written some more books that are along these subjects and are very good.
Another place on line that would be helpful is womensinfidelity.com It sure sounds like a lot of women today that walk away from their marriage. At one time, I was able to download an E-book, but don't know if they still do that anymore. It is great and would be worth it to buy it at Amazon if you can't download it still. That particular book talked about the 4 stages a WAW goes through and how their "limbo" state gets worse and worse until she actually ends up never feeling satisfied and happy or never feeling "in love" and just stays on a frantic search for that fantasy man of her dreams and hops from one to another. Boy, did that get my eyes open! It described what was happening to me. I'm so glad I never reached that final stage b/c there isn't much hope after that.
A very good informative web site is Marriage Builders. I like this message board better than theirs, but the author is great! You get so much free downloads. It is like taking a class. It talks about how we have "love banks" and how we either make deposits or withdraw from our S love banks. It really is worth looking into.
I can tell you more later, but for now, let me assure you that no matter what she may say at this time........she is hurting. She may try to make you think she is happy and that you will be better off without her....blah, blah, but she isn't. I don't know your stitch and all the details, but most of these stories have a common theme. She is looking for greener grass and she can't bear the pain that she has been pushing down deeper and deeper until the resentment is killing her......so in order to save herself (so she thinks), she leaves.
I have been married to the same man since I was 18 years old......which was 42 years ago. We are about as different as night and day. I had thought about leaving him a few times, but nothing ever developed except once I left for about a week. I never, ever looked at another man. Never had a problem with my age, etc. until I was approaching my 60th birthday. Yep, I was 59 and went into a MLC! Can you believe that? I hope it doesn't make you throw up or anything to think about someone my age going through stuff like that. But, guess what? No matter how old we get......we still have those same needs, desires (yes, and even sex) lol. I felt very neglected and you can read my story under newcomers where I first came on board. Anyway, in my lonliness and boredom, I began to play games on-line and then chat.....then one thing led to another and first thing you know, I am flirting with other men on line and it makes me feel like a young girl again. But, then it led to an EA with one man and then my H found out and it all hit the fan.
You said you still loved your WAW. Well, I don't know how my H could still love me after he read my messages and emails to the OM, but he did. He was able to forgive me and he still loves me. He is a very rare person with a good heart.
I had closed my heart to him for so many years and I have so much resentment for things that happened over all our years together. I built a wall around me with that resentment and it is very hard to tear down. I am still working on it.
I hurt him more than I ever imagined b/c he did not let me see that hurt. All I saw was the ugly side of him. I heard him say things and react in anger in a way that I had never seen before. I did not know that person. He was not the man I married. However, when he looked at me, he did not see that sweet young innocent bride he married, either.
It has been a long hard year for us but we are still together and it is slow and as I've told some others.....we aren't moving at the pace a lot of folks thinks we should, but that is my fault. I know that and accept the responsibility of it. But, I have to work at it in my time and my way. I do listen to what people say and I appreciate when people try to help me. I do feel that being somewhat older and other factors enter the stitch, you have to consider things that perhaps younger people don't deal with now. My H and I have reached the point that we are now in the "friendship" stage. To me, that is progress, b/c this time a year ago.....I couldn't bear to be in the same room with him. I wanted to get away from him so badly that I was ready to walk out for good. So, we are "piecing" slowly but surely. My regular stitch is now over there in the forum where people are starved for sex.....lol. So, you can find out more if you are interested.
Anyway, if you want to talk to me.....I'm here for ya. I will try to answer any questions that I can. I do know that in most cases it is a long road, but there have been some success stories and I know that when I came on board that some very wise people got my eyes open and kept me from walking away from a M of almost 42 years. Can you imagine? But, it happens more and more in this day and time.....people married for years and years and finally just can't take it anymore and split.
Don't give up Bryan. Keep coming here to read other people's stitch. Come here to blow up and vent to us so you can keep your cool around your W and kids. You will get advice, tips, ideas, etc. Some you will like and some you may not, but it is just sharing with each other and most of all trying to support one another. Yes, I am from the other side, but I want to support you and encourage you as much as I can. So, hang in there. I know loving a WAS isn't easy. It takes a special man. If you think she is worth the work and the wait, you have a good chance of getting her back.....if you will do what the books that Michelle says to do. I have read a lot of books on marriage and her's are some of the best. Her principles really do work, but it is all up to you to do your part by applying the principles that you read about. It's hard......very hard, but it works!
Hope I hear from you. Take care of yourself.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thank you for taking the time to respond to me. I really appreciate your support. My W and family mean a great deal to me and I am working very hard to get them back. I caused my W a great deal of pain and I take full responsibility for that. I also know that she and I have not been the best of communicators. Had I known how she was feeling 8 months ago, we wouldn't be in the sitch now. So we both shoulder the blame for where we find ourselves now.
Unfortunately the love of my life has built a wall around her heart and I cannot knock it down I can only wait until she knocks it down herself. I can tell you that I love this woman so much that I doubt that there is little she would do to me that I could not forgive her for, unfortunately she doesn't feel the same way about me.
I had no idea that someone could be hurt so much as to completely shut down any feelings that they may have for you. I can tell you that I had the most incredible 3 1/2 years of marriage to her before I hurt her by neglecting her. I didn't do it intentionally. I would never hurt her, I just didn't know that the combination of my stresses and depression was doing such damage.
I have since started medication that has leveled me out and discovered that I need to pay more attention to the people I love so that I don't hurt them the way that I have hurt W.
I did all the dumb things when she told me that she didn't love me any more. I cried, pleaded, begged, and considered ending my life. I have since gotten into counseling, on meds, and started to DB my butt off! I see it as the only way I have a chance to get my W back. When she said she wanted to move out I told her she should. I believe that by letting her go she will begin to understand how much I love her.
I may not get her back, but if I don't it won't be for lack of effort. I will exhaust every avenue before I give up. I can also tell you that the most important thing to me is her happiness. If she isn't happy with me, then she shouldn't be with me no matter how much it hurts me.
But in the meantime I am going to be patient, understanding, empathic, detached, and give her the space she wants. We do talk but it isn't the same. She used to adore me and I miss that greatly. I also do my damnedest to keep from saying ILY or any of the other things I think and feel every minute of every day.
I am in this for the long haul. And you can see more of my sitch at "Never saw it coming" in the WAW forum.
Thanks again for being there.
-B
Me-45 W-34 T-5 M-3 1/2 s-10 s-12 ILYBNILWY 12/26/07 Sleeping away from home at friend's house(because she says she can't get any sleep otherwise) 1/14/08 1/25/08 We tell kids she is moving out
I may not get her back, but if I don't it won't be for lack of effort. I will exhaust every avenue before I give up. I can also tell you that the most important thing to me is her happiness. If she isn't happy with me, then she shouldn't be with me no matter how much it hurts me.
Now that is true love!
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Well if nothing else, I have learned a lot about myself in all of this. I am paying for my mistakes and hopefully will be a better man for it. My family deserves to have my very best.
I am not perfect, none of us are, but I am on the road to getting back to being the man I was when I married my W. Who knows maybe even a little better than that. Just call me Bryan 2.0. LOL.
Time to gather myself up, put on the brave face and get through another day. I can do this.
S10 and I are off to a roller hockey tournament while W and S12 stay in town for his ice hockey games. Yay us!
Me-45 W-34 T-5 M-3 1/2 s-10 s-12 ILYBNILWY 12/26/07 Sleeping away from home at friend's house(because she says she can't get any sleep otherwise) 1/14/08 1/25/08 We tell kids she is moving out
Sandi, Thanks for noticing my efforts. Your support helps me more than you know.
-B
Me-45 W-34 T-5 M-3 1/2 s-10 s-12 ILYBNILWY 12/26/07 Sleeping away from home at friend's house(because she says she can't get any sleep otherwise) 1/14/08 1/25/08 We tell kids she is moving out
Well, I read your stitch and I don't want to be the one to bring you down farther than you are but I started having a gut feeling about things way before I go to the post about her new "room mate" being a male. It was no surprise to me. What do you know about this man? How many bedrooms does the place have and where do the boys sleep when they are there?
I certainly don't want to hurt you more, sweetie, but I think she is definately on the prowl. When she took that wedding ring off that was a red flag right there IMHO. Yes, it does certainly sound as though she is in MLC. I was suspicious that she was sleeping at another man's place when you said she was staying at a "friends" place at night and then returning home before the boys got up in the mornings. I felt like (by what I was reading in your posts and being a suspicious female here) that she was just slowly breaking the ice and that she had her eye on another man or else was already sleeping with him. I know....another arrow through your heart. I'm sorry sweetie.
The man at the church....was he a member or a visitor that day she wanted you to be sure you saw the attention she was giving him (and that was exactly what she was doing!) That was her way of telling you that she was free (in her mind) and could flirt with who ever she wanted to.
I am surprised that you can handle her sharing a place with another man. I know there isn't much you can do about it other than what you are doing now, but don't stick your head in the sand to far down protecting your poor broken heart. What does your DB counselor think about this?
After reading your stitch on the other forum and getting a better idea of what is going on, I am wondering about all of this. You see, for a woman who says she left b/c she needed your affection and attention and that you neglected her for 6 months....isn't this a little extreme? Why wouldn't she want to stay home, since you saw your mistake and was willing to correct it? You want to give her that attention and affection, so why move out?
I can understand a woman that has gone a long time in that type of stitch b/c I was there myself. But mine was a lot longer than 6 months. She must have really gotten the WAW signs that Michelle talks about on the board. But again, I agree with you about the red flags going up about showing her state of being "available" (even though she isn't legally available) with the shirt that said "sinful".....wow, can't be much more plain than that without wearing a shirt that has her phone number on it.
Bryan, you are doing a wonderful job, sweetie. However, I think this road is going to be a lot longer than it may have seemed in the beginning. I think she is wanting to taste the single life, for sure. Are you going to be able to handle that?
I am curious as to why she is attending MC with you. Was it her idea or did she just agree to go with you? Does the DB coach think this is good that you two go together to C?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
My heart goes out to you. I am only 6 weeks into my H walking out leaving with the "ILYBNILWY" line after 15 years of marriage. Hang in there. Easier said than done I know. DB'ing will get easier over the weeks. I am now at a point where, I know it may sound crass, but challenging to DB and see the small baby steps of progress that come along with DB'ing. Give her time and space and yes, an affair is quite possibly par for the course. My H insists there isn't one and that none of this is about sex and I have to believe him or I will go nuts wondering. But deep down inside I accept that there probably is/was a physical affair. I know there was at least an emotional one long before he left but didn't put 2 and 2 together until a couple weeks after he left.
Sandi-
Your insight is wonderful. Although you are a woman I believe what you described as feeling and your state of mind and heart during the worst part of your MLC is hitting the nail on the head for any MLC'er regardless of gender. It is also helpful to hear these things from a WAS or potential WAS as it helps those of us dealing with a WAS the insight as to true feelings and some of what they are going through. For that I thank you immensely.
Both 35 T 19/M 15 years S8/D5 It's over bomb/ILYBNILWY 12-22-07
Thank you Sandi for all of your insight and thoughful advice. I have to admit, I myself was quite discouraged after reading a reply that you had written to me. Your wisdom and compassion help me to see what I might be scared of. I can't imagine waiting 12 years for anything. I agree with your comment to Bryan, the OM always figures in. And in my case, I had the finances to walk and the OM took care of the rest. Why is it that most men don't appreciate the women while they are there? In Bryan's case, he neglected her for 6 months and in my case my H neglected me for 7 years.. I guess everyone has their breaking point. A question that I often ponder is the same question that Bryan asks..What was my frame of mind when I walked? I try to recall, and I come up blank..It's as if I were in a trance..In my normal state of mind, I wouldn't and couldn't have made such a rash and sudden decision. If you have re-read my stich, I had an accident in May, and the emts called my H, and he laughed and said nothing. The man that became the bf showed up at the hospital and stood by my bedside professing his love for me (this man had been a friend of ours for 4 yrs) and at the time he was engaged to another woman. I took it as a sign from above, and by that point I had embarrassed the H infront of his collegues...as they all saw the bf express his love for me in the place of my H's employment!!!I felt as if I had no choice but to leave. And why on earth did my H allow me to take those precious babies with me? There are so many things that go through a WAW's mind, I'm not even sure we could keep up if we tried. One thing for sure that I can attest to , is that at some point the WAW does realize that the grass is not greener and the most important thing the LBS can do is be there for them as a friend, a lover or whatever they may need!!! All of LBS's efforts will pay off. In Bryan's sit, I agree with you Sandi, she is acting out in certain ways, with the nose piercing and the T-shirt- I agree she is trying to regain her youth. Once again that's not always a bad thing, I've been there as well..It gets old quickly..Sandi, on a side note, I feel that I have been recieving positive signs from my H, but than it's like he gets scared and than backs off. We never had much intamacy in our marriage, but the several times that we have had sex since I've been back, have been amazing (no kissing, or cuddling) but it has been good. I took this as a positive sign..seeing as we were working on an issue that we had yet to work on..but now it's been about 10 days since he last tried so I asked why and he said that he couldn't because it makes him want to be close to me. But Michelle says that sex can help things along. He still comes and gets in bed with me and I really think he wants to be with me (why else would he stop seeing the gf?) If sex can bring us closer than what's the matter with that..He's getting ready to leave for a week and I'm scared of what that might bring: Ie: good=he will miss me or bad=he realizes how peaceful it is without me. The bf showed up in the driveway earlier this week and would'nt leave until I came out of the house and listend to him. He wants me back and will go to great lengths to do so. I told my H, had to because the kids asked why the bf was in the driveway. And the H said he didn't care, I told him that I wish he would have fought for me in some way shape or form...like i said in one post...how do you know if the H ever loved you to begin with. My H claims to have been miserable for years, but throughout those years, I carried two of his children for 10 months each, nursed them for 16 months each, built us a beautiful home, sat by the bedside of my son who almost died when he was two and than a month later almost lost my newborn daughter. Throughout this entire time, it seems like he would have told me, or even before we tried for a second child, or before we invested our life savings building our dream home. Why didn't he stop the marriage....before He MADE me walk out and become Hector Prine (aka. the scarlett letter) I am doing my best, and like I've said, I realize the reasons for my leaving, and the chances of me leaving again are zero. I owe too much to myself, my children and to him. I look in his eyes now and the hurt is still there, I feel as if he wants to hold me with all of his being, but he's scared of the pain that he knows I'm capable of causing. I want to prove to him that I can love him completely, but he has to give to me something to work with. There's a song that was just released this week by a band called Lifehouse, and it has a line in it, that says exactly this. He doesn't have to hold out his entire hand just yet..a pinky will do. I a strong person in my professional life, I've just never been able to be in my personal life..Marilyn monroe had a saying that I had on my office wall "Kiss, but do not love, Listen, but do not believe, and Most importantly, leave before you are left. I guess you could say that's always been my moto..once again a protective sheild. Anyway, I appreciate all of your honest advice and will look forward to hearing what you have to say...whether I'm ready to swallow it or not..Take care.
Me 40, live in WAW H 39 married 9 yrs seperated 18 months, apart 7 months D 4, 16 S 6, 19
