This wasn't on the postcard

[Phoenix_spark]

New Year, new thread, I wish it was a new story. Some days I think W is bipolar, but I think it's just playing along with what is convenient. Last night kind of sucked, today was pretty close to reasonable. Some days I feel quite positive, some days I just seem to be waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Had a great talk with one of my friends, as we were talking about Rs in the new year. He made quite a few good points and of course he complimented me on my fight to "do the right thing". Later that evening, another friend picked up on a few things and approached me about W and I's R. Of course, since he was a close friend, I did confirm there was problems. He questioned me about some details he had learned of, since I didn't deny them he knew he was on the mark. Didn't have to say much to him, I guess his sources were good and he knew me well enough to read me well. Need less to say, he was not pleased with W.

So will this new year be the beginning or the end? Time, I guess will tell. I'm hoping that W is starting to second guess her plan and really look at it from the kids and I's perspective. If she does go through with things, I think there will be quite a few people who will not look on this nicely. It is surprising (not really) how many people who have grown up in split homes are avid supporters of making it work. Some day I just want to say to W, "your family is so big on family, do you think they want you to break up yours?" "Why can't you give the kids what you had?"

Well, I hope all of you have a better New Year. Let's see what this forum accomplishes for us this year. Hopefully there will be some successful exits.

[cat03]

Amen to that, we got a brand new spanking year folks, let's make the best of it

[WCW]

New Year Phoenix, can you make it Happy too?
I am sorry to hear you so down and seemingly focused on what MAY be going to happen. Remember that article I refered to quite often a year or two ago Take Divorce off the Table? I'll see if I can round it up again. I actually printed it and gave a copy to H to read. There's another thing too that was sent to me, The Non Divorce Divorce. It's about people staying together for the convenience of M. I wonder if that is H and me.

Is W still sleeping on the couch?

What I really want to ask you is if you know the laws in your state about S or D? If your W does file will you have to leave the house? what are the 'rights' as the father? If all the signs are that W is soon to pull the trigger you should be thinking about taking the offense and being sure YOU are protected and your kids. I so hate to bring this stuff up to you but we all know that safe and sorry is better than just sorry.

(((PS)))
Chin up, my friend.

[BeingMe]

I agree with WCW, Phoenix! Make sure you know your legal rights, but still continue the fight.

We just got back from our previous city .... visited family, and our D20 who just had a baby. She seems happy, but who can say for how long given that she is living with her idiot, much older boyfriend, who is now sporting a red full mohawk (can we say MLC?).

Anyway, I hope the new year brings you clarity, peace, and love. I especially hope it brings your W a 2x4 from someone she knows and trusts, and that she wakes up from the fog.

I wish all that for everyone on this BB.

Take care.

[Phoenix_spark]

Thank you all for your input. Yes I am starting to focus on what I should be aware of in case something happens. Part of the problem I face is finding the information out without appearing to be throwing in the towel. WCW, send all the reading you have, it will be seriously considered. The answer to your question is yes. But the kids are starting to ask W about it.

Right now I'm just trying to KLA while W is piddling around with this R of ours. It's funny how W's response to me can change from one minute to the next, even when I'm not even at the house. (Just calling home from work). Why do W's have to make life so difficult? (Just messing with you guys).

The other day I fell asleep on the couch, then woke up later with a sore hip from the couch frame. This might be poor DBing, but I got a smile on my face. It was nice to know that something was making "an impression" on my W in regards to her sleeping arrangements. Don't think PS is going to buy a new one any time soon, unless there is a permanent change in W's "position".

OK, tell me if I'm wrong here. I found "us" doing something the other day that indicates to me that there is some reconnecting happening. You know how it is when you have a good friend and there will be a group discussion going on, something will be said and all you have to do is look at each other and there will be no words said, but each of you know what the other one is saying. Well W and I have been having a few of those. I think in a way, we are both starting to feel comfortable enough around each other to let that happen. Most of this has to do with if W will let her guard down.

I want to thank my DB friends here for helping me make it through this last year, I could not have done it without you. My hope is that I have been as much of a positive influence on you as you have been on me. It nice feeling a part of a team that is trying to accomplish something so important in so many peoples lives.

[WCW]

all you have to do is look at each other and there will be no words said, but each of you know what the other one is saying

Yes, I get that also with H but I don't know if it really dawns on him how well we CAN know each other. There is still that whole other side of him that is so dark with so many secrets that appears just as often or even more.

Part of the problem I face is finding the information out without appearing to be throwing in the towel. WCW, send all the reading you have

Internet search, ask people who have been there, phone calls, all in your own privacy. It's not throwing in the towel, it is being proactive if you think W is on the verge. Protect yourself. You don't want to be served one day and find out you cannot even go back home.

Here is the info I was refering to -
Denying Divorce: Forget About Divorce as an Option, It Just Might Save Your Marriage No one is saying that your marriage isn't difficult. It might even be miserable. But an interesting set of statistics shows that people who take divorce off the table as an option not only resolve their issues, but end up being happier than ever. If your marriage is feeling troubled, and you're considering divorce, consider trying alternate therapies instead, marriage counseling, or just some open communication.

But whatever you do, don't bring up the "D" word as an option, because doing that will change the rules of the game. Now, of course it's important to acknowledge that there are a lot of influences on you to get a divorce. Your friends who don't like your spouse, legal advertisements, even popular culture. It's a common statistic that most marriages end in divorce, and so it seems like an acceptable, even normal way to resolve problems in a marriage.

But let's look at some statistics. Of all the couples surveyed who were contemplating divorce and then decided not to go through with it, 80% claimed to be happily married only five years later. In all likelihood this is due to two elements. The first is that those couples who decide not to consider divorce, the only remaining option is to deal with the problems experienced in the marriage head-on. This is a powerful and proactive tactic that will lead to acknowledgement of the problems the couples face, and maybe even to solutions.

The other element is that once divorce is considered, the dynamic of the relationship is changed. This is a more subtle, though far more destructive product of considering divorce. The dynamic of this is simple. When a fundamental disagreement develops in a marriage - as it will in almost all relationships - those who never consider divorce are forced to deal with the disagreement. Those who do consider divorce preserve an "out" that can be used without ever addressing the issue.

As the problems in the marriage mount, or the fundamental issues become more divisive, the easy out of divorce can become more and more appealing. This thinking will take both of you, however. When both people in a marriage are actively searching for a solution to a problem, and both accept that divorce is not - and will not be - an option, a solution will almost surely be found. You and your spouse will be asking what you can do to make things better, rather than asking if it's worth it, or if you should cut your losses and run.

Remove divorce as an option and endeavor to go into relationship counseling, therapy of some kind, or just talk about your problems in a mature and open way. It seems simplistic, but statistically it also seems to work. Those who deny divorce as a viable end to a committed marriage will also be more motivated to work on that marriage, and work through the problems.

Also, this was interesting from another pov - non D D

W's response to me can change from one minute to the next, even when I'm not even at the house. (Just calling home from work).

I would say there is a number of reasons. One is that for whatever reason she finds you very abrasive. Two is that she is very guilty. Three is that whatever you do or don't do she finds intrusive on her own life. You may not be the cause of her change in response but you get the brunt of it. Remember the outside world has a lot of effect on all of us. The end result is the same, it's still all about her and not about you.

Why do W's have to make life so difficult? (Just messing with you guys).

Um, because W's are married to H's?

[Phoenix_spark]

Thinking over what you have said I do think W has quite a problem with being able to work things out. She doesn't mind trying to figure things out with D17 or S15 but when it comes to PS, that's dealing with things on a peer to peer level, which I think W has a real problem with. (not just in M)

I have been thinking about being able to have it so that D is taken off the table. It' hard to be pro-active when things are sitting on " the edge of the table, waiting to fall off". I haven't seen W in the real low and agitated funk that usually brought on the D word lately. Why? How? Don't really know. However W seems to be expressing herself more in non R interaction.

I was really sad to hear about that woman (in SLC) that got shot by her stbxh right in front of her church. There were some interesting comments/opinions said in the online version of the paper. Both sides of the coin and how thin the line is. Kind of scary.

Thanks WCW for finding my new thread. It looks like you need to start a new one too.

[WCW]

things are sitting on " the edge of the table, waiting to fall off"

That sounds to be about the same as walking on eggshells. You know this is the time to be the strongest and act secure! Go on with your life as if your M will last forever. Don't just act the part, live it! It could aggravate W to the extreme that things will hit the floor, or she may go with the flow you are creating. Are you ready?

I've seen a lot of news but I didn't see that story. It sounds bad.

Thanks WCW for finding my new thread. It looks like you need to start a new one too.

I haven't had much to say other than same old same old but I see Glenda is looking for me, I'll copy and paste Jan from last year and the year before and the year before and jeesh I am tired of counting how many years this has been.

[Phoenix_spark]

I hear you there. Over the Christmas season I had this dream/wish about W having an Ebenezer Scrooge or even a Saul on the road to Damascus experience. This lead me to consider in my mind what W would say when ask "Why persecutest thou your H"? Of course the scene where Scrooge is pleading with the spirits if the visions he was being shown were certain, or could be changed, played out in my mind. Of course seeing real remorse and effort out of my W touched my heart and helped me to understand some of the pain she is going through. This could be a fault of mine, but I try to understand things from others perspective.

Anyhow, I go over that in my mind a fair amount some days. However, like you say, I do live my life like this M is going to go on. Am I prepared of the big D? No, but I don't think you really could be. Will I survive? Yes. Perhaps W is looking at my, "not going to dwell on it attitude", and has decided that perhaps she better be real sure before she "pulls the trigger". Let's see how this plays out.

[Phoenix_spark]

Nothing real new to report. Compared to three years ago, yes things are better. I suspect enough people have said enough to W, mix that with my unwillingness to accept D and W has decided to watch and see what improvements and changes can be made in our R. W seems to be more forthright about what she is doing, more sharing in decisions and future.

One thing I have learned from this experience is to get more involved with what is happening in my life and enjoy what does happen. Especially, when it comes to the kids, I have to enjoy them while I have them. Hopefully we'll have this R straightened out, so that when the kids do finally move out, there will still be a reason to stay together. By then W should have gotten over this and I should hopefully be able to forgive her for all that has happen.