Was on SSM, but this WAY more than just Sex . . .

[chocolateeyes]

I hope I can figure out how to do the "link to my old thread" thing, because there's no way I can begin to retype everything that's happened in the past 24 hours.

I'm a 46 year old, high-drive male married to a low-drive/no-drive 46 yera old woman who I think is going thru a MLC. I may post on that board too, but I've reached out to my wife in the past 24 hours and she seems willing to "piece" our marriage back together, and hell, I don't even know what "piecing" is, but here I find myself. Someone on the SSM board suggested I should post here as well.

We've made love twice in the last five years, and haven't at all in three years. We don't kiss, other than a peck goodbye in the morning or hello in the evening, and I think there's a possible EA between my wife and OM right now, as I've caught the text messages on her cell phone. We have a keyloggers on our computer at home, and she's been typing things like "Older Women/Younger Man Relationships" and "How to Look Sexy" into searches. The OM is nearly 20 years younger than she is.

For What's Happened in the past 24 Hours, LINK is HERE

More background HERE

I would appreciate any advice, as I'm terrified.

thanks,

Chocolateeyes

[oldtimer]

Hi all,

FYI, I suggested that Choc posted here. It is VERY early in his sitch in some ways, but the response from his W has had very positive components and there was never a bomb in his sitch.

So, piecing seems appropriate. If some of you could read his most recent thread or maybe the last two, you'd have a good idea of what is going on.

But, PLEASE jump in with suggestions. This is sudden and Choc is new to this DBing stuff!!! He will know more about his W's buy in to the process tomorrow, but I think he is going to find himself at a confusing mid-piecing stage without having to go through the bomb business. But, he definitely needs input from you veteran piecers!

[Heywyre]

Don't know how much of a veteran I am, and my sitch is a little different in that my H has M/W complex (Madonna/Whore) - there's a separate thread for it, but we can try and help out as much as possible and get you through this Choc

It's a rough ride, so hang on

[NikB]

Choc - my first piece of advice for you after reading your old thread is: get Divorce Remedy and read it. There is so much in there that will help you.

And next - slooowww down. It took 5 years to get to this point, you aren't going to fix it in a day or a week. And if you try, you will quite likely push your W in the OPPOSITE direction. I know it's hard to believe but I've seen it so many times.

Try not to obsess on the EA thing. If you make yourself the more attractive option she will be drawn to you, not to him.

[chocolateeyes]

Nikki,

That's GREAT advice, and you're not the first person to tell me that, either. Thanks. I have an easier time of it during the day, when I'm busy. At night, when the house is dark and quiet, I start to obsess.

I guess the distinction I'm looking for from my wife is between the following two things, which, to me, are VERY different:

1. "Choc., it took us a long time to allow our marriage to get like this, and it's going to take a long time -- and a lot of hard work -- to get it back. But I WANT to get it back, and I'm committed to working at it with you. Just be patient with me."

and

2> "Choc., it took us a long time to allow our marriage to get like this, and I'm not sure it can be fixed overnight. In fact, I KNOW it can't. But it's good that we're talking about this, and being honest with each other."

#2 is pretty much her response so far. There's no ACTION in that, and there's no COMMITMENT in it. I am willing to buckle down for the long haul, but ONLY if I know I'm being joined by a committed partner. I'd rather have a committed partner who HATES MY GUTS right now (and she doesn't), than a civil, even somewhat loving wife who's vague and non-committal.

Choc.

[Concerned_Listener]

Chocolate,
I'm in a similar situation as yours. My W and I have had sexual frequency problems over the years, and I suspect an EA/PA. We are not yet in Piecing, as there has not been a spoken commitment from my W to work on things.

A commitment from our WAS would help us feel we have ground beneath our feet. Maybe there'w no commitment at this time, but are you sure there's no action? Progress made prior to Piecing is still progress!

What positives are you seeing in your R? Is your W working-thru her issues, or is she completely in escape/avoidant mode?

My thread is "W at Home, Yet Sleeps Elsewhere," over in the Infidelity forum.

CL

[Heywyre]

Choc

Don't press for the "I'm committed" response - most likely she doesn't even know herself. She is confused and is trying to sort things out. Pressuring her to give you a black and white answer will result in the negative - I guarantee you. After all, what would you do if someone pushed you against the wall about something you weren't sure about?

Back off, let her say her piece and just be supportive of it.

[PArob]

Hiya Choc!

An old friend asked that I stop by and check in on your sitch to see if I can offer any advice to you.

I've quickly scanned your last couple of posts in your old thread and reviewed what's been going on thus far. I see a lot of positives in your sitch, but you have to learn to be mindful of them or you're only result will be to push your W further away.

The best advice that I can give you right now is to BREATHE. That's right, step away from the keyboard and follow your breath....count 1 on inhale, 2 on exhale and so on for a few cycles.

Feel better? Okay, lets begin. First and foremost, get and read Divorce Remedy and Divorce Busting from Michelle. No, this isn't an informercial, but, in my opinion it is essential that you read these books to gain a better understanding of the advice that others are giving you here.

Seconly, understand and recongize that your sitch will not be fixed in one day, not in one week, not even likely in a month, but will take consistent, positive effot over a course of several months, maybe even years, to get on track.

Third, its not clear to me, but are you certain that your W is involved in a EA with OM? Not that it is completely relevant, but it does help to clarify exactly where things stand in your sitch. If she is involved in an EA, first and foremost recognize that the affair is NOT the problem in your marriage right now...it is a symptom, and whether or not it ends today, you relationship will still be saddled with all the baggage that preceded the affair. Do not focus on the affair as the problem.

Fourth, stop the pursuit! The sugar-coated messages, flowers, poetry, whatever, is not going to change anything right now. Begging, pleading, pouring out your heart is NOT the answer here. Typically that will drive a wedge further between you and your wife because as you pursue, she will continue to convince herself that she needs to get further away (I know, strange dynamic but very true - the tighter you grasp, the easier she'll slip away).

At this point you need to become very introspective and clearly see your role in the breakdown of this marriage. Somewhere along the line, you kids lost your way and it's best to find out where now. You do not need to tell her that you are doing this, just do it. If OM IS in the picture, try to figure out what void his presence is filling in your relationship and start to work on that. If OM isn't in the picture, then great. Keep trying to figure out what happened.

You are not going to get any action or committment out of her at this point and this is only normal. She's taken years to get to this point and in the process, she's convinced herself that things cannot get better. YOu have to subtly be the force of change in that dynamic and step up.

A common misconception that you noted in one of your earlier posts dealt with the fact that you are only willing to buckle down if you're being joined by a committed partner in fixing this. At this stage in the game, is it wise to draw that line in the sand? Don't you think that's the end game here? Why not try something for awhile and see if that can be a goal and not a beginning? Why not try to be the force of chagne in your relationship and see if your actions can bring about positive results.

Right now I have to go, but I'm going to keep an eye on your thread to see how things are going. Please post often and let us know how your are doing.

Rob

[NikB]

I am willing to buckle down for the long haul, but ONLY if I know I'm being joined by a committed partner.

Are you absolutely sure that you mean this? Because it's a pretty hard stance and is not likely to help save your marriage. It sounds to me like your wife isn't as committed as you are right now, and isn't likely to BECOME that committed unless she sees some changes and finds hope that the marriage can be happy. It sounds like she's pretty much undecided right now - and pushing her for a committment will only push her away.

If you're only willing to try if she does, well, you may lose your wife and marriage when you really had a chance. Instead, why not do things that may make her WANT to recommit??

This article may be of interest:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/a_why_change.htm

Here's a quote that really jumped out at me that applies to your sitch:

I have worked with so many people who live in quiet desperation because they are utterly convinced that their way of seeing things is right and their partner's is wrong. They spend a lifetime trying to get their partners to share their views. I hear, "I'll change if s/he changes," a philosophy that ultimately leads to a stalemate.

and

When one partner changes, the other partner changes too. It's a law of relationships. If you aren't getting what you need or want from your loved one, instead of trying to convince him or her to change, why not change your approach to the situation?

[oldtimer]

Choc,

You are getting great stuff here!