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F4W:

I have to say up front that I never, ever, ever intended to keep the kids from their dad. I respect him as a father and a parent, and if there was one thing that we usually agreed on... it was the kids.

However. During the D proceedure... I have to say it was tough for me to go the 50/50 route... simply because I think that doing that never gives the kids a place to call their own. But. We took some time in doing the 50/50 split to see how the 'kids' would feel about it. Our entire D proceedure took nearly a year. For six months, we monitored the kids and each other... made sure everyone's tempers were in check, at least as far as the kids are concerned. We only live 1/2 mile apart. The kids have access to both of us, whenever THEY wish. They hate doing baskets (of their stuff). That still kills me. But in the end, it is better for their mental health, for they don't feel that one parent is getting more time than another. It gives them room to be kids, not caretakers of their parents. We also put them both in counseling, we taught them to express themselves, to either of us... and we respect their decisions on certain things. It gives them a much needed sense of power in their own lives. They are 13 and 11. We also had put into the divorce decree that if either he or I feel that we are not being 'heard' by the other on any given issue, that, by law, we have the power to haul the other into counseling (by counselors named by both of us), and the other must comply within 30 days. If not, we are in essence 'breaking the law.'

In the end, the kids decided they wanted to do the 50/50 split. In my mind... they need both of us. Period. Believe it or not, it is the only thing on which we can speak rationally, and we really listen to one another in regards to issues pertaining to the kids.

So. As to your quandry... STAY FIRM. During the D with me... my attorney said to me... "I need you to see this as a business negotiation. You can fall apart on me AFTER it is done. We'll get you any help you need. But during this process, no tears, no hysterics. This is business."

Fortunately for me, I'm a business woman. The whole process certainly took a toll on me, especially my stomache. But... I am not your typcial female, with your typcial life. I go into 'survivor mode,' and it's pretty fcking scarey.

Anyway. For you. Business. Best advice you can get. You can be her 'friend' after. You can be nice 'after.' Not that you need to be mean. You need to stay firm and keep you and your kids best interests at heart. It may reduce your CS amount, it may not reduce it is as much as you hope... I'm sure it will all depend on your discrepancy of income. That is why I was telling you to keep track of everything. If you can.

Divorce is tricky business. I don't like to see anyone end up on skid row, and I don't like to see people get screwed out of money they need to start a life, or live their life. What you consider fair and what the court considers fair is often a different thing. But remember. It's business. It's the law. And if you get your kids 50/50... hey. You're better off than most men.

Hang tough. Make sure to breath. Get out an exercise. You need it for your mental state and for the endorphins.

Corri

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hey F4W here is some info that I think will help you with your case man. a few of the laws differ because of state laws, but the basic concepts are teh same. especially the "do" and "don't" checklists

http://www.fathers4kids.com/html/FathersRights.htm?article_id=32

Fathers for Equal Rights (FER) has compiled a list of those things your attorney should be working toward in your divorce or modification. Those items with an asterisk (* ) beside them are MUST-HAVE items. This is not to say that other considerations are not important, but gaining those with an asterisk by them is of utmost importance. WARNING: This is simply a checklist and does not cover all of the issues of your divorce or court action. For additional information and explanations, please obtain the FER Report on the subject covered. Call or come by our offices for further assistance.

Joint Managing Conservatorship. This means you will still be a ’managing conservator’ after the divorce. (See §153.131 of the Texas Family Code.) This is allowed even though she does not agree. Try to avoid the designation of a ’primary residence’ for the children, but if the Court is so inclined, ask that it be your residence.
Establish the county of residence (domicile) of the child(ren). Do not allow either parent to have the right to decide ’domicile’. This can be written in simple language along the lines of, ’The county of residence of the child of XXX county until altered by further order of the court.’ This language is referred to repeatedly in the Family Code.
If you have ’visitation’ you must ask for the right to pick up the child(ren) at school on Friday and return them to school on Monday. This is your right under §153.317 of the Texas Family Code. If your job does not permit this, then you can choose to pick them up at day care or elsewhere after school school, their mother will be working also and will face the same problem. You should also have the right to pick them up at school on Wednesdays. You should try to gain the right to keep them overnight on Wednesday. Ask for the right to phone them at least 3 days a week: Specify the time and days. This is not provided for in the code but you have the right to request it.
Insist on ’Pick-up , Pick-up’ for exchanges that do not occur at school or day care. This simply means that you ho to her house to pick up the child(ren) when a neutral site is not possible and she comes to your house to retrieve them at the end of your possession period. Do NOT agree to pick the kids up at her house and return them there. §153.316(1)(3A).
If the court orders a social study, have your attorney ask that it be performed according to the minimum guidelines established by the Texas Department of Human Services (TDHS) Note: TDHS will not perform the study. They only set the standards.
Mediation should be a part of every divorce agreement, even if you do not receive joint managing conservatorship. The name of a specific mediation center should be incorporated into your petition/decree with the stipulation that the parties (you and your ex-) will try to solve differences there before litigating the matter. A mediation provision is a must where you and your ex- share responsibilities as allowed under a joint conservatorship agreement. Refer to §153.0071 and §102.0085 of the Family Code for specific language.
If you pay child support and have lost your job or are making less money than you were when the support amount was set by the court, you must IMMEDIATELY go to the Attorney General or your private attorney and ask that your order be modified to reflect your present ability to pay. Your old rate will continue until you do so and it cannot be adjusted retroactively. You may ask the court to establish and rearrange payment for any accrued support due obligee. Your local FER chapter can help you with this. Contact your local chapter immediately.
Before the Trial
DO THIS:

1. Admit to yourself that you have problem in obtaining a just divorce.

2. Close out joint accounts and cancel credit cards and charge accounts.

3. Make sure that your wife and her attorney cannot get your financial records, move them to the office.

4. Try for an out-of-court reasonable settlement.

5. Contact and join a Father Rights Organizations and ask their advice about choosing an attorney.

6. Determine what the lawyer fees will be before you hire him or her.

7. If you have children, make sure that they understand that you are not divorcing them.

8. Keeps a written record of all events pertinent to the divorce: Names, dates, etc.

9. Rent a P.O. box for all your mail that you want to keep private.

10. Ask yourself which parent would be best for the children.

11. Tone down your life-style during the divorce process.

12. Learn about your case and your judge so that you can ’’help’’ your lawyer do a better job for you in court.

DON’T DO THIS:

1. Move out of the house unless ordered to do so by the court.

2. Forget that you, too, have Constitutional rights.

3. Tell your children horror stories about your ex-spouse. There is no need to drag them through the muck.

4. Use your spouse attorney to save money. You will only hurt yourself.

5. Use a lawyer who is negative about your case and the opportunity for Fathers gaining custody.

6. Leave all of your friends behind and become a hermit.

7. Discuss any proposed settlement with your wife’s lawyer unless your lawyer is also present.

8. Avoid your children if you move out of the house.

9. Take your children with you unless you have planned in advance.

10. Rely solely upon psychologist or expert witnesses to win your case.

11. Buy a new car, boat, etc., or move in with a single woman.

12. Voluntarily pay for anything not in the court order. This will not win you any ’’points’’.

During the trial
DO THIS:

1. Attend ALL depositions, court sessions, etc. even if your attorney tells you there is no need to come.

2. Obtain and keep ALL originals with copies going to your lawyer.

3. Get specific Visitation, if you do not get custody.

4. Claim tax exemption on the children that you are supporting.

5. Keep tabs on your and your wife’s attorney fees and other costs.

6. Take a reasonable settlement at any point during the process.

7. Fight to keep the kids out of court and out of the middle.

DON’T DO THIS:

1. Sign any decree or waver unless and until you understand it fully and consult with your attorney.

2. Be afraid to change lawyers if your interests are not being met.

3. Panic if you lose temporary custody as is usually the fate of fathers.

4. Agree to alimony unless there are exceptional circumstances.

5. Agree to Child Support based solely on your income. You both owe support.

6. Agree to ALL medical bills without any strings attached.

7. Be neglectful of wills, trusts and insurance; change the benefactors, if you are not forbidden to by Court order.

After the Trial
DO THIS:

1. Fulfill your visitation rights and see your children regularly.

2. Obey the divorce order, even if your former spouse violates it.

3. Get specific Visitation, if you do not get custody.

4. Avoid your ex-spouse as much as possible; you cannot have her back.

5. Fight off sentimentality when dealing with your children.

DON’T DO THIS:

1. Review all the details of the decree with your children.

2. Be afraid to socialize, you are not a leper, you are just divorced.

3. Be overly possessive of your children, they need adjustment time.

4. Agonize over mistakes during the trial, forgive yourself.

5. Confront your ex-wife or in-laws, do come to a working understanding

Last edited by theprodigalson; 07/18/06 04:11 PM.
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Hey F4W,

Good to see you back. I will keep you in my prayers. I am beginning to look into the legal stuff myself - Bleh! It sucks - It sucks bigtime!!!

Hang in there. We are thinking about you and praying.

God Bless,

Santhony


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PS, thank you for the info, I will correlate with Wa. State Laws.

SA, thank you for the prayers.

Update.

We are getting slong better. I have been getting better at seperating the D from my emotions and wishes. D = Business. Nothing more.

I have rolled the dice with a big wager. My S10 and I got back from a regional tournament for baseball. Wife layed down on bed for a minute before leving for the night. I sat close and rubbed her leg for a second. I said I would like to offer something to you. She said what.

What I have doen is offer to continue to sell the house and then take 6 months and see if we are not able to work our issues out in our marriage. That we would rent a house and and apartment = to our current mortgage. Continue to follow the schedule outlined and agreed to. But with the emphasis that we will work on us. Yes it is taking a step backward and looks exactly like seperation. She wanted to debate. She wanted to accuse. She wanted to talk about her hurt and my lack of trust in this process by asking for full disclosure of financial documents. I worked at validating. My offer was based on several revelations and dreams I have been having. God is speaking to me. He is saying to me do not quit, for it is my will at work and my plan.

I asked to talk when she wanted about this. She was not opposed. She made mention that she feels guilty and then remembers the horrible things I have done. These I do not know about except for those she has disclosed. But I see the conflict and the doubt in her. She made mention that a mutual friend is not a strong woman and that is why she has not D her H. I said D is not a sign of strength, it is actually a sign of weakness if it is not warranted, abuse, etc.

So She has left. I made it clear that this is not out of despereation, and I hope she knows that I am capable of going through with the D if she decides. I also stated again that the work it woul take to repair and recreate a positive marriage is minimal compared to the work and dedication it will take from both of us to make D work for our kids.

F4W


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Just because a person does not love you in the way you want, does not mean they do not love you!
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I have been getting better at seperating the D from my emotions and wishes. D = Business. Nothing more.



I'm working on this, too. Wish I was independently weathly so money wouldn't have to be an issue. It's hard to remain friends and talk about money!
Matilda

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F4W - what a great post. Maybe this is the way forward for your and your W at last; I really hope so. IMHO it seems like a great opportunity for you both; as you so rightly say the turmoil of D (especially with K's) is so much more than the effort needed to make a M work. Perhaps now that your W has seen something of what D entails she will come to the right decision.

As you know, my H and I are separated, but I don't see this as a step towards losing the M - I see it as a step towards saving it. And you would not, in fact, be separated - you would just be releasing some of the pressure of financial decisions.

The fact that your W is thinking about your suggestion is very encouraging - I will be praying for you that she sees the wisdom in it.

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Hello F4W-

I have said this very same thing to my W. That the baggage and problems associated with a D are far more reaching than the effort required to rebuild a M.

At least your W is willing to listen - keep an open mind.

I will continue to pray for you. I hope this works out.

God Bless,

Santhony


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Well it has been forever and a day since I have posted. To many things have gone on and I will try to be brief in my update.

We are still splitting time in the house until it sells. It went on market on Sat. The kids are adjusting very well but I am not. I still cry each time I leave the house for my time away. Sometimes long sometimes short. The money will clear all of our debt and we will leave the marriage debt free. She has found and secured a rental house for hersef and kids and plays it up to them and gets them excited. I myself an waiting until the house sells before I make a decision on buying or renting.

We have had some knock down drag out fights over the past two weeks. I mean reall dousies and I have stayed firm and will not bend. Mostly to due with finacial information and money due to me. She has been diagnose with an ulcer and had a staff infection and some cancer spots removed from her face. Her medical bills are climbing. During our last fight she said she sees me in a different light now, one fixated on money and that, hold on to your chairs, not" very husbandly" in my actions. I immediately called her on this. I asked if I am her Husband. She sadi I was and we are just seperated right now. I was astonished. I broke down cryig to her, and stated that was something I thought I would never hear again. I did ask he to remind me if I am uncaring again.

Let me back up a bit. I had made a proposal for her to sell the house and all then enter into counseling. She has agreed to this. That 13 years were worth trying. I got her to agree we would not be dating during this time and that I would not be incompetition with another man (men). She blew a gasket and said that I am making this all about me. Well I simply replied that I am the repondent not the petitioner.

So in our last fight I stated very loudly and to the point that She can forget counseling, that I will call my attorney and get this D on the fast track. That I am not going to be blamed for the D and the havoc that it has caused. That I want out and is I am going to be portryed as an ass in public by her I will oblige. She changed her tune very quickly and we talked about being more cordial and nice, no matter what.

So that is that. We have set the temporary custody schedule and CS amounts. All that needs to be done is see the judge. We will be entering into couseling in Sept and I hope it can shed life on us both. She did make a statement about counseling how she hoped the counselor could tell her what she needs to do and show her how F'd up she is. This statement in itself shows me she has not reached the point where she can see her actions and the consequences.

I will try and update more often. I just try to hang day by day and with God's love and will I will be fine. For it is truly in his hands.

F4W


Through honest giving of my love I will recieve 10 fold in return.

Just because a person does not love you in the way you want, does not mean they do not love you!
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F4W - I don't want to get carried away here, but do you feel there is light at the end of the tunnel at last? You W responds with panic when you get stronger and she faces the reality of losing you - she still calls you her H; she says you are 'just separated'; she is willing to go to counselling; she recognises the value of your years together; she admits she has issues - and that she needs help in fixing them.

Only when you show insecurity (eg - competing with another man) does she get defensive and attack. When you show strength - which you are - she pulls closer.

I would resist rushing anything with her - just continue to be compassionate and give her time to sort herself out. She knows there is a problem; she is now suspecting it is not you, but her. But she is not ready to face up to fixing that just yet - however, she is making moves in the right direction.

Patience friend; and don't fear the separation. I have discovered for myself that space can be the real healer.


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Ah Purdy, Thanks...you do see things I miss. Maybe it is the fog and cloud of this process, I do not look at it objectively.

Maybe a light but it is a very small light. I am skeptical and in truth, that light may be the opening of the tunnel OR it can be a train heading right for me.

I try not to read anything into her words or actions. I hope that time will heal this one way of another.

PS I am jealous of your trip.

F4W


Through honest giving of my love I will recieve 10 fold in return.

Just because a person does not love you in the way you want, does not mean they do not love you!
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