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#652343 02/21/06 10:50 PM
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Hi Beingme - Yes they sometimes do indeed. Providing our expectations are pitched at a level that gives them room to 'delight' us. Over the course of the past 2 years, perhaps my biggest self-discovery is that my expectations can run away with themselves - of myself, of NG, of everything and everyone around me. I missed enjoying so many wonderful things in my past simply because I was expecting something more Learning how to manage my own expectations has been the biggest gift I gave myself

We have just come back from dinner with NG's work acquaintances. He was asked to stand in for his boss at the 11th hour and without hesitation asked me to accompany him - which I was delighted to do. I have to confess at the back of my mind was a small lurking concern that ow might be there, but thankfully she was not

And now to continue the discussion from last week, Bets, you had created quite a stir back there!


Own your feelings, speak with passion, don't control the outcome and seek solutions in the form of compromise. I swear to you both that when I do this, 100% of the time, I'm pleasantly rewarded. This works splendidly with my XH... and I know he appreciates the fact that I can tell him how I feel without pointing fingers.


Betsey, its taking me a while to work through your wonderful bag of tricks. Your summation is right on - here is the rub - I don't think I'm anywhere near unravelling my own feelings. My reluctatnce to speak with passion is rooted in observing my perspective change as I spend more time peeling the layers off. Take for instance the definition of intimacy.

Before the affair, my definition of an intimate relationship would include emotional and physical love, respect, sharing thoughts, values, friends and assets, or something as broad and deep as one can conceive. Nowhere was there room for me as an individual. I think sometimes this is referred to as 'fused'?

Today, I'm still working through the differences in how I really feel. I'm actually enjoying not sharing all of myself with the one person, if for no other reason than it makes for a more intesting time together when part of me remains a mystery. I am also enjoying pondering myself in the privacy of my own head and heart. Likewise, I'm not sure I want to know NG's every thought, I like having the option, and challenge, of unveiling. Given the flux that I see myself in, and one by the way that I am enjoying, I must take my immediate feelings as transitory. To speak of them with passion may be premature.

However, on matters that I am sure about, I have to confess to similar results as the 100% good stuff you have seen. Last Saturday, on our way to a party, I casually mentioned that I wanted to have a slow dance with him. And then changed the subject. Y'know, 20 minutes into us on the floor, he takes me in his arms and the music changes, turns out he had arranged it with the DJ and we had a wonderful time.


You have noticed a pattern of him "not being able to take" more than 5 min chunks. I think if you reframe what it is you need, you'd disover that you're owning his stuff... because he runs or reacts in a way that you don't know if you like, it makes YOU uncomfortable.


OK you got me, I am owning his reaction. However, I feel to some extent this is necessary because my ultimate goal is to be happy, and have a harmonious relationship with NG. If he is out of sorts, it directly impacts both my goals. IF he was on a journey that is similar to dbing, it would be possible to apply growth enabling approaches. I think it was Ellie who said somewhere that at some point we have to see our partners as they are, and accept that along with many wonderful qualities, they also come with some limitations. NG's no-way-no-how area, at least to date, is having to deal with anyone who is unhappy as a result of his actions or choices. I suspect it is rooted in a childhood of constant disapproval. So until I see that he is ready to handle 'the truth' I will continue to drip feed, because so far, it seems to be working. In an ideal world, certainly I would like to get it all off my chest But pausing to reflect is doing me personally a world of good, despite my occassional moments of wigging out

'Tis getting late here, there are many more wonderful comments from the previous thread that I'd like to ruminate over. Tomorrow should be soon enough Slowly


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#652344 02/22/06 07:01 AM
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Hi Martha - Glad you popped by. I am feeling so out of touch with everyone, part of my day off today will be joyfully spent catching up here. I missed you all

H2H, reading your post just before heading to bed meant I was ruminating over it even in my sleep


I think that both Slowly and I have felt the discomfort of not being completely honest. That is, we have the desire to talk about things with our spouses, but resist doing so in anticipation of their discomfort, which in turn activates our own discomfort button.

But in my own situation, I have been feeling discomfort for quite a long time. And along side that a pretty big FEAR of not rocking the boat. But the net result of not opening up and telling him how I feel is that it leaves me still sitting in discomfort, and adding a bit of resentment, frustration and sometimes anger too.



I have to say I did not expect my philosophy lessons to come in handy so quickly in real life There is much to be said about how we are conditioned to see developments in our life. I am reminded of an exchange between one of my friends and her dad, who works in the Foreign Office. We were teenagers and rather prone to wear our feelings on our sleeves. She was refusing to back down from a tiff with her mum, and her Dad quietly pointed out that what she may refer to as 'sugar-coating' was in his work life the art of diplomacy. It took her till she was in her thirties to be able to sit and have a completely honest conversation with her mum. Turns out her Dad was right in steering her in the direction he did; he understood her mum's limitations (and loved her nevertheless). Sandy's mum finally matured, and is a gracious lady, but she certainly had problems. In a strange way, I see NG as a wonderful guy, who has some issues, that he is prefering to work on his own, at his own pace.

When I reflect on my growing comfort with not letting it all hang out, a big part of it has to do with what I now see are the love languages of the people around me. Take NG for example, he is a big quality time guy. Being validated to him is not the words, but the actions that express empathy. When he gets off the phone with his mum, and it is a difficult chat, he feels comforted when I just sit there with him, maybe hold his hands. Any questions, or expressing my feelings that he is 'holding out' on me, would feel like further being ravaged. Let me tell you, I used to feel hurt that he was not sharing part of his life with me, and was quite vocal about it too

Likewise, NG may suspect that all's not well with me, but the fact that I do not 'force' my feelings on him is to him an important expression of love. By verbalizing them, in his eyes, I am reducing his options, because once it is in the open, to say or do nothing will itself be a statement. This may sound convoluted, and I can see Bets going 'when do Slowly and NG sit down and really talk about what's under foot?". And in all honesty, it could be later today, or 10 years from now. Because for us, there are so many, many things that are going so well, that as an overall package, it is good.

Do I feel frustrated? Yes, sometimes, and I am learning to manage that. Not by suppressing my feelings, but by broadening my perspective and understanding why certain things are difficult for NG. He sees me as someone he has chosen, twice, to spend his life with. This is huge for him. He needs to know that he alone, the way he is, is enough for me. To even suggest that there might be growth, will be an implicit criticism.

Do I feel hurt and insecure about the R? Sometimes. But I have also come to realise that more (not all) of this is rooted in issues that I alone own. And I need to work on those before I can ask NG to work on his, if I ever do. After posting here last week about feeling upset over the screen flip, it dawned on me that I was reacting, and not staying my course.

And knowing that there are some things we do not share, I still feel unambiguously that NG is the one I want to spend my life with. Because he makes me happy in so many other ways. Because I know that every month our relationship evolves, towards something that is better for us both. So in our lives, there are three things that are changing - me, him, and the R. He may not change as visibly, or by as much, but it is enough.

I think this makes sense, no? Slowly



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#652345 02/22/06 11:09 AM
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Hi Slowly,
Yes your post very much makes sense and now it is you that has given me something to ponder . . . .

If I had to summarize your eloquent post into a few words I'd say there is a loving woman who has a solid long-term view. And it is both beautiful & inspiring to read.

Some of your observations of NG could very well describe SO, and I can see and understand your way of handling those traits in NG. However where our sitchs differ, and it is perhaps the most significant difference, is that NG is committed to you and the marriage. That certainly makes the long term perspective slightly easier to adopt and maintain. Lacking that, I find myself uncomfortably navigating between what I would like and What IS. But you have given me something to put away for some potential future use, somewhere, sometime in my life.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! No doubt I will be mulling this over today.

Big hugs,
-H2H

#652346 02/22/06 03:47 PM
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Slowly,

Popped in to catch up and all I can say is.....

Your pond is teaming with life and love, good on you (&NG).

Right ON!!!

Cheers,

HFO


Forgiveness is the release of all hope for a better past. – Alexa Young
#652347 02/22/06 11:15 PM
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Quote:

until I see that he is ready to handle 'the truth' I will continue to drip feed, because so far, it seems to be working. In an ideal world, certainly I would like to get it all off my chest But pausing to reflect is doing me personally a world of good, despite my occassional moments of wigging out


Eventually you will probably be able to get it all out there, but if the drip feed is what works now, you're wise to stick with it. How many of us, wherever we are on this journey, have made the mistake at least once of pushing for too much too soon?


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#652348 03/01/06 10:11 AM
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Slowly, is everything ok???? Just busy with the end of work? Busy having fun????? Just wanted you to know I was thinking of you.
matilda

#652349 03/03/06 08:37 AM
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Hi Matilda - Thanks for stopping by. It has been beyond increadibly busy at work I think we are over the worst of it. I know I'm ready for the weekend.

Since the mini meltdown a couple of weeks ago, and the ensuing discussion on authentic communications, I can feel myself being more upfront with NG. It could also be that after 2 years, we seem to be finding our way back to each other. In any event, he is more open, I feel less tense and life is good.

Slowly


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#652350 03/03/06 11:02 AM
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life is good.

So happy to hear this. Also, just glad to know you're ok. It's funny how I worry when someone doesn't post as frequently as before.

You certainly deserve a good life, Slowly! You are so kind and thoughtful towards so many people here. Thank you.

#652351 03/05/06 02:52 AM
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Missing you, slowly, but glad to hear that life is good.

Is there a difference in the way you phrase stuff with NG now that you're being more upfront? I often had a hard time sharing what I really felt about stuff if I thought it would tread on H's toes.


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#652352 03/05/06 11:45 AM
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Dear Slowly
You are very inspirational to me in your ability to control yourself by not feeling repressed by not saying things. This is someting which would be fairly huge for me to conquer but I will bear your example in mind the next time I feel it is my right to storm in because I feel insecure (which has been happening rather a lot lately). I will endeavour to get to the board more often to profit.
lots of love

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