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#448300 03/21/05 09:08 PM
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Hi,

I've been lurking around for awhile and thought it's finally time to get down to business. My wife and I have been married 4 1/2 years, both our second marriage. Both with kids of our own. Most of the problems in our relationship in fact centered around the kids. Basically she felt I was too hard on hers and too easy on mine. True, I think, because I never fully committed to taking her kids into my heart. Actually slightly before the bomb and ever since the bomb I have learned how to open my heart to them and we have a good relationship. It's been rewarding and even though newly divorced I still want to see them as often as possible.

My wife was a more or less typical WAW. The typical "I love you, but not in love with you" type thing. I initially pursued, but after following DB I tried not to. Yes, I've read DB, DR, and listened to the tapes. I'm not sure if I didn't do a little too much of the LRT. We came really close sometimes to working towards getting back together, then the bottom always seemed to fall out. My mistake I think was that while she cared for me, she didn't want to give me false hope. I pushed too much. She indicated she would never come back and filed for divorce. By that time I felt if that was the only way to make her happy I would willingly give her freedom. I'm surprised it went through so quickly. It really still comes as a shock that we went from bomb to separated but friendly to divorced in 3 months. Incredible!!!

Okay, so now here I am, still in love with my wife, but with a distant feeling. I feel like since I let her go that I don't think about her as much as I used to and don't want to try initiating things until she does. I would like to re-marry her if possible, but how do I achieve this if we have no contact. We did leave things as friends. There was no animosity, but still I haven't heard from her. So much happened so fast that I didn't even really GAL until now. So now I find myself trying things to GAL but that's also difficult.

I am happy with myself. I made the changes to me that I wanted to make and am trying really hard to keep the positives going. I'm hoping someday she notices and finds me attractive again. What else can I do?



In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years.
Abraham Lincoln

It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed.
Theodore Roosevelt

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Yes there is hope - read my two threads. I am dating my X H after the big D.

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Thank you. Gives me hope.

Maybe I should have dragged my feet more through the divorce stuff, just to give her time. She felt though that she was never going to change her mind and I really did need to "let go". I kept thinking she would change her mind. Maybe she hoped I would pursue or become needy, but I went through that rollercoaster many times without success so at the end I didn't try to talk her out of it. Just said, "I don't want this so don't do it for my sake. I just want you to be happy so if you need a divorce then so be it" Guess that's what made her happy.

I'll just try to be friendly but distant. I hopefully get to continue to see my step-kids if nothing else.

Well, I'll post more when I know more, but I'm kind of in limbo for now.



In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years.
Abraham Lincoln

It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed.
Theodore Roosevelt

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It's okay not to drag the D because at least you won't fight about it - give her what she needs and she'll give you what you need.

If you see her, just be nice and smile at her etc. Sound interested in her conversations, but be the first one to end the discussion.

Don't keep calling her and things like that, wait for her to call you. Also, look gorgeous (new clothes, haircut etc) and don't touch her, she might start realising what she's missing!

Get some new things in your life so she can see you are confident about 'moving on' without her and then she'll be like 'help! he doesn't need me.'

Reverse psychology - she might want you she thinks you don't want her.
Also do some 180's on some of the issues that caused you to split up.

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Hi there,

Glad I found you. Thanks for the post on my thread.

You said:
Quote:

You asked how did she come to read my thread? By my own stupidity. She cornered me...she accused me of giving up on the marriage so we might as well divorce. I said I haven't given up. She said your actions don't tell me that. So I said I'm following the advice of the DB website.




You wife has given you the enormous gift of a BIG CLUE as to what she's thinking, wanting, hoping for, perceiving from you, etc. Do you see it?

She tells you point blank that your ACTIONS are telling her that you have GIVEN UP on your marriage.

Your reaction appears to be "I haven't but, well, I'm doing what DB tells me to do...".

Yes, DB tells you to not pursue...and that's a very powerful tool...but there's a difference between not pursuing and acting like you don't care, right? Sometimes it can be a very, very difficult line to straddle.

DB'ing is about doing what works to bring you closer to your goals and doing a heck of a lot less (NONE, if you can) of what isn't working.

It seems to me that what you've lately been doing is actually getting you further away from your goals (assuming that those goals include staying M'd to your W).

If you took your w's viewpoint on this (really and truly) what ACTIONS do you think she's interpreting as "he has given up on our M?" Don't put it thru any DB'ish filter...just stand in your w's shoes and look.

IMHO, DB'ing isn't about never saying ILY or never expressing desire for the M or never being the one to initiate or never...

It's partly about (again, MHO only) validating and being in the same spot as your spouse...not getting far ahead of them in terms of looking towards the future and not getting to far behind. So when our WAS is saying "I don't want this m" it's about not invalidating that by saying "sure you do" or "well, I do" or "ILY" or "remember the good times". But, when your WAS is saying "I feel like you've given up on our M"....well, maybe a slight course correction is called for? I'm not suggesting rushing over there with flowers and candy and big ILY's but what if you took a step towards her (instead of away) or, if that seems too pursuing or bold, just standing where you are? Open, warm, letting her know "I am here".

Is this too preachy? It's not intended to be. Yah, sometimes people want what they don't think they can have. But sometimes people give up on what they don't think they can't have. Your w is calling "uncle" and letting you know that she's losing hope because she thinks you are. That seems pretty powerful to me.

Sage


Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
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Sage,

Let me give you a little rundown and maybe you can give me some clues that would help me straddle this fence better....and do more of what works.

After she moved out I did see her a fair amount and did the distant but friendly stuff. She indicated on Valentines that she was confused and missed the family type get togethers. She even initiated a hug and kiss, which was a first. After that the whole week seemed more and more positive. She at one point indicated she'd probably be back in a couple months. I tested the waters with a kiss that didn't seem to be rejected, but the next day she said she thought she was leading me on and never should have said all that stuff.

So I went back to distant but friendly. But in the meantime I started working on the house. I changed my entertainment room, repainted it (she didn't like the colors), changed the downstairs carpet (I did ask her about it and she told me the color she liked), and inadvertently started an emotional type thing with a FF. That I think was the kicker. I went to dinner with her and explained that it was mainly just friendship, but she wasn't buying it. I was a little distant for the next couple days and then she started the conversation about how I had given up because of the house changes and the FF (she said it doesn't matter about her, but kept coming back to it so it did matter). That's when the whole D thing came out and I said "fine then let's get the details out of the way". Then I went back to friendly. We went out a couple times and had a nice time. We interacted in a friendly manner, but I asked for a hug and didn't get one. She called and said sorry and I stupidly asked where she was at with us. Still "I love you but not in love with you". Which brings us to the present. I went off to the swim meet and while I was away she read my thread and I think it was all percieved as pressure by her and that I was holding out hope for something that would never happen. At least not in her present state of mind. She said she contacted a divorce attorney, etc. All I could think to do was say "I love you, but I only want what will make you happy. So I let you go and won't hang on anymore".

It's hard not to give too much attention and too little. My take is I need to be her friend first and foremost which won't be hard except we don't have any interactions that I don't initiate. Not unless I stay away for awhile. No, the flowers etc won't work. I went to her office one day and she reacted in a very uncomfortable fashion. She responds uncomfortably to compliments. I'm really at an impass regarding what to do. I know she'll read my thread again. She'll hold off for awhile but then she'll do it. That's why I have to leave that name behind and hope she doesn't find me. I can't pour my heart out and not be percieved as pursuing. I don't think we can comfortably be friends until she doesn't feel any pressure.

So what do you think? Any suggestions? I went to brunch with her and it didn't go over too badly. Maybe just a few informal dates that aren't real dates? I don't know. If I was asked in February if I was getting divorced I would say no way. Now I don't know. Thanks for finding me Sage.

Hope...


In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years.
Abraham Lincoln

It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed.
Theodore Roosevelt

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Need some quick help. Like 15 minutes type help.

I posted originally as if divorced since we looked like we were heading that way and I was letting it happen really easy. Now my wife does want to meet and go over divorce stuff so we can get it going. I asked..."is this what you really want?" and she said the question wasn't fair. Maybe the question was pointless because she wouldn't do it if it wasn't what she wanted. I don't think it's a scare tactic.

So when I meet her in a half hour or so. Do I just cheerfully go through the details and figure I can DB after divorce and might have a better chance of not pressuring her. Or should I make it clear again that this is not what I want. One last ditch pressuring effort to change her mind or convince her of my desire to save this marriage.



In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years.
Abraham Lincoln

It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed.
Theodore Roosevelt

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Hey !

I will try to describe the attitude that you need to adopt, that may work with your wife....

Picture this:

She comes to see you for this or that..( you havent seen her for two weeks)......and you are working in the yard, on the car, etc. First off....when you see her drive up, you smile and say "Hi ! How are YOU ?" Emphasis on the word "YOU".

Pretend you are a bachelor and she's one of your occasional lovers. So...if that's the case...you're certainly NOT going to talk about anything serious...or bring her down, are you ? Of course not ! Why? Because you LIKE this gal...and want to see where it leads....but you are not yet ready to settle down...and have said as much to all of them.

And you rarely CALL her. You certainly dont BEG her for a date, by asking her more than once. In fact...when you DO plan a get-together...you're cool about it.:

"Hey...Joe, Sally, Lisa and Bill are going to the XXXX friday nite and asked me to join them. You want to go ?"

If she hesitates...or balks...just say " Ok, that's cool." using a matter of fact tone.

You do this because you have OTHER options...but SHE was the first you asked. You dont want to mention other women...because any good bachelor knows that isnt cool.

You LIKE her. But she isnt the only game in town.
You are BUSY...and dont have time for any drama.
You are positive...and abhor negativity.
But you are NOT gaga over her. Not yet anyway.

You always treat her with respect and courtesy...to a point...as you do all of your women. That's why they all love you...and call you a sweety. You are SUPER POLITE..and smile a great deal. But you REALLY light up when you see this gal.

You let her know you like her by your ACTIONS. But you do not obcess about her. She is one of many. She might be a bit special to you, but...she isnt the only game in town.
You are now someone that she wants to be around....no matter WHAT her words say to the contrary.

Oh sure...there are other women after you....but you show her that you like her by your entire face lighting up when you see or talk to her. So...she does not think she isnt in the running....in fact...she thinks she may be a frontrunner....and wonders if she is. As long as you act are 100% "positive", when in contact with her....she will begin to believe it too....and come around more.

BTW, I could smack you for telling her about this site !

What were you THINKING ? ( nevermind..lol !)

She may SAY she thinks you've given up....but if she had more time to ponder it...that's when she would have begun to MISS you....and would have realized that SHE is the one setting YOU free....and had better take steps to correct the sitch before you are too far gone.

Just do your thing...and if she's someone worth keeping...she'll come around more. If not...you have lost nothing.

BM

BTW, I didnt see your previous post when I typed this one...but, after re-reading it...it may be Ok for this meeting. My advice, though is to let lawyers handle the details....and not talk to her about it at all. This way,..any anger she has can be directed towards your lawyer, and not you.

Last edited by BigMouth49; 03/22/05 05:49 PM.
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Quote: ....she said the question wasn't fair.

This tells me she is STILL on the FENCE...but sees no way out. She needs time and space to think. This lady is confused, bless her heart.

BM


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Exactly,

We met. It was good. I did make it clear that divorce is not what I want. Basically her response was I don't want to keep having to tell you that I don't love you. Which we already knew from every previous encounter. I didn't make her tell me, just validated.

You would be proud at how well I validated. Then we discussed issues surrounding selling the house and splitting up stuff, etc. It went well. No fight in either one of us. There were times she broke up about things. She said she cared for me very much. She said that "you people on this board didn't understand that sometimes you have to let someone go because you love them." I understand that. I let her go for that exact reason. She also cried when she talked about my kids. We spent some time clarifying a few recent misunderstandings, etc. She talked to me about her improved relationship with her son since she moved out. I said I was happy for her (which I was..things had been getting fairly bad between them....it's great to see her smiling and happy when she talked about it). It was nice veering away from the divorce talk and splitting stuff up, etc. I love my house and I know she does too, but I'll sell the thing in a heartbeat if it's part of getting my wife back.

Okay, positives:
1) she's going away for Easter and she said part of the reason she wanted to get this discussion out of the way now is so she can think about what she wants to do. She left little doubt that she will consider us.

2) She wouldn't take my ring back when I offered it. (Well this could be pos or neg don't know)

3) She indicates her reasons for doing this so quickly is because she cares too much about me to keep hurting me and doubts her feelings will change. This is the most painful thing I could have experienced through this. I did really well with the conversation, but this hit hard. I really didn't like seeing her hurting like that, especially not if it was on my account. I would have given her anything at that moment.

Anyway, so I know where it stands. She still feels the "not in love" thing, but it is now compounded by a desire to not give false hope. That's my new name in Spanish btw...hope. I'm very resolved now. I am going to be the best friend she could imagine, but that's all. No pressure if possible. I will go through with the sale of the house and the divorce if that's what it takes. It's not like divorce is the end all.

Thoughts?

...Hope


In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years.
Abraham Lincoln

It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed.
Theodore Roosevelt

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