So I just got the decree via email and printed it out.
What took 18 years to build, will take 14 pages to undo.
Like it never even happened at all...
"The marriage previously existing between the Petitioner and Respondent be and the same is hereby dissolbed, the marriage is terminated, adn the parties are returned to all rights of single persons."
I know, I know, my Superfox training has taught me that I don't want to waste the pretty on somebody who evaluated his life with me and decided, "Nah, I'll pass on honoring that commitment". I want to be fully and unashamedly LOVED and to feel free to fully and deeply love in return.
Just hurts like a sonofabitch to know that person won't be my husband. Or should I say, ex-husband.
Will come back later with my goals for the New Year. Have already been working on them....
Thanks for the love and support. I have gotten more from you guys than I ever imagined logging on here 2 years ago...
(((BBJ))) big hugs...much love Sweetie.
Thanks. Trying to get all the tears out today so they don't come back later. Will that work? Yeah, didn't think so...
But I will be ok, in time. I know it...
Thought I couldn't live without you
It's gonna hurt when it heals too
It'll all get better in time
Even though I really love you
I'm gonna smile cause I deserve to
It'll all get better in time
Since there's no more you and me
It's time I let you go
So I can be free
And live my life how it should be
No matter how hard it is I'll be fine without you
Yes I will
Bobbi Jo - Getting the legal part done is disgusting, but I can assure you that you will find (or maybe found already) a great guy that will treat you as you so rightfully deserve.
The NEW YEAR is lamost here BBJ....new decade actually....
Let's ALL turn the page together. the last chapter of the decade was NOT what we wanted it to be....but luckily, there is another book in the works.
Chapter 1 begins with a lovely young woman full of life ... a great mom, daughter, sister......friend! All the folks who will and have come in contact with her are better for it ....some don't realize it and some will be lucky enough to have her around them for a long long time....make it a wonderful NEW book BBJ.....
Make it a HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!
Pathetic....
I forwarded the decree on to Dan. The only reply he sent was that he didn't know how he could get me the lump sum within 30 days, he needed a payment plan or to cash out the 401 K....
Seems to me he had no trouble cashing out a piece of the 401K to put down on his house when he wanted to...
18 years and his only concern is the cash.....sad.
Actually, I am not that surprised. Cash is tangible, it is safe.
Emotions are a whole different story. He can't talk to you about it, for fear of kicking himself in the a$$ for letting it get this far.
It's all about pride. Some people would rather hold on to their pride, thinking they are saving face, rather than just admit they are flawed and they screwed up.
Reading LolaL's response - that really hit home in a couple of ways. With the way our economy is so messed up and the likelihood that it will get worse before it gets better, it's very understandable why someone would value the cash. Then again - those dollars are backed up by the government.
YIKES!
It takes biting into a large piece of humble pie to admit that you are wonderfully flawed and always will be. A lot of us here get that. Maybe someday your XH will...
Thanks guys for rallying for me today.
I am going to Borders shortly to get that book, "Getting Past Your Breakup" or whatever it is called, the one that was written by the lady John210 posted from earlier on my thread.
Personal goals 2010:
1)
Follow the Dave Ramsey "Total Money Makeover"--I will spend my money intentionally in 2010 and have a goal to be debt free except for my house and possibly a car payment (my car has 220K miles) by mid-year.
2)
Strenghten my faith and trust in God--To that end I will continue to be active in my church and re-read "What to Do When You Don't Know What to Do"; written by the Christian authors of the "boundaries' books. A few months ago it was sitting out at my house and Dan borrowed it to read. It never came back so I will just get a new one...
3)
Solidify my career path-- I need to evaluate the situation re. finishing up my ELL endorsement, attempting to get re-assigned at my school, and worse-case, work as a sub next year. I already decided I will not spend the lump sum from Dan unless/until I find out for sure I am gainfully employed next year. If I am NOT, the lump sum is coincidentally equal to one year's salary for me. So I will just sub in my local district for a year and figure it out from there if I have to, living off the child support, alimony, and sub money means I wouldn't even have to dip into the lump sum that much I don't think. But at least that way I don't have to try and find a job out of town, which I have no interest in doing...
4)
Be more intentional in taking care of myself-- I will start writing up a weekly schedule for myself (having a set visitiation plan in place should help with that), making sure I schedule in 2 mornings and 2 evenings a week to get some form of exercise, be it working out at the Y, running at home, trying a fun class at the Y, etc etc.
OK I am sure none of you needed to read that but I wrote it out for myself. I didn't put anything about finding love in 2010 because I don't know that I will be ready for that. Lots of other ducks to get in a row first, taking care of BBJ.
Kerry I am still talking with CA every couple days via email. I am sure we will go out again sometime soon. It is nice but I don't know if it means anything yet. For one thing I know that anyone I wind up involved with will have to make me LAUGH and SMILE on a regular basis. If he can't do that, he will not be "Superfox Eligible"....
Your lovescope for December 31, 2009 The planetary alignment is making you very aware of just how complex relationships can get. On the one hand you want to go ahead with a brand new affair because it offers new hope and new possibilities for the future, as well as arousing your curiosity. On the other hand, an old partnership is beckoning, and you are not sure whether to go back. Trust your heart!How almost-but-not-quite appropriate...
Too bad that CA and I have not really gotten that close at this point, and Dan is not remotely 'beckoning'...
Oh well! Ringing in the New Year with the kidlets tomorrow. Making lots of appetizers for dinner, and I got them little hats/crowns that say "Happy New Year"...
Just got back from Borders. I got the book about "Getting Past Your Breakup" by Elliot. I also got "9 Things You Simply Must Do to Succeed in Love and Life" by the Boundaries guys.
http://www.amazon.com/Nine-Things-You-Simply-Must/dp/1591450098That one is for refocusing and getting myself on track in 2010.
To that end, I also got a new calendar for the kitchen. Some sort of MomTime scheduler/calendar. So I can put appointments, lessons, meetings, etc all on the main calendar and help organize my life. Also got a small personal planner so I can plot out my own health/fitness/personal development time...
OK that about covers it. OH and I changed my ringtone on my phone to this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU1PyOvydOsI love that little song! I call me and my kids the "3 best friends" and sing it to them all the time...
I am sorry BBj, I know you fought hard and did your best. I also know like the guys said, you will soon be happy. Really Happy.
Love your kids and welcome the New Year with faith that the best is yet to come,
Love
M
hi, lovely BBJ
Gotta get back to praying for you and others. Sorry about the temporary blueness. I am in the midst of some myself.
Anyway, I hope you get to enjoy some of the soon to come festivities. Be safe. Be Spirit-filled.
((( BBJ )))
T
Pathetic....
I forwarded the decree on to Dan. The only reply he sent was that he didn't know how he could get me the lump sum within 30 days, he needed a payment plan or to cash out the 401 K....
Seems to me he had no trouble cashing out a piece of the 401K to put down on his house when he wanted to...
18 years and his only concern is the cash.....sad.
I guess I find it surprising that this suprises you....
I mean did you really expect Dan to give you some sort of emotional response??
which would you rather do?? have a payment plan or take it all in one lump sum BBJ??? I mean I hate to reduce it to that for you..
But that is what it is
it's about getting the business of the D done..
having a love life is going to be up to you and what you make of that...
expecting any type emotional response from Dan is wasting time in my opionion..you're not going to get what you are looking for from him
[quote=BobbiJo]
How almost-but-not-quite appropriate...
Too bad that CA and I have not really gotten that close at this point, and Dan is not remotely 'beckoning'...
quote]
Never say never...you just "never" know!
Thanks guys. You are the best!
Mike, I want lump sum. Period. No desire to drag this out and be reminded of it all the stinking time...besides, I may need that lump sum to live off short-term if I have a job reduction or something.
Last night he said that since he had drawn out for the house there was a waiting period before you could draw out again (401k). Well, seriously, he took money out LAST YEAR for the house! Like in January or February.....so I wonder if he didn't take money out again here this past month--I saw the statement in November and he hadn't touched anything then...
Anyway gotta get going this morning. Have tons to do!
I paid my XW off (alimony and division of assets) by refinancing my house. Dan may not be able to do that as his equity and increase in value of his new home may not be enough. But he should try to see if that is a possibility.
most 401k's have restrictions....ask him if he withdrew money from the 401k or he took a loan out?? Most 401's offer a hardship withdrawl under certain restrictions..but this method is taxed heavily..on the other hand..most will let you take a loan out for up to half the value of the account...and you just pay yourself back..they only allow a certain number of loans over a period of time..no tax penalties for the loan..
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!
Making an appetizer/snack buffet with the kids...
Nachos with queso
Summer sausage/cheese/crackers
Strawberry shortcake
Little smokies in chili sauce/jelly combo
OH...and I am drinking Dirty Shirleys.
It's Effen Vodka (cherry/vanilla vodka), and cherry 7 up.
Yum!!
Sounds good girl.... wish we lived closer! Happy New Year!
Party at BobbiJo's house!
No matter what, an ending is sad. He's half your life. He'll feel the pain -- maybe not today -- but some day.
I can't imagine what it's going to feel like when we are returned to single persons.
I'm on my way to the party....
Happy New Year Lola. Have you been following my sitch?
Hope you had fun at the party. Peace.
Goldey
Sorry for the hi-jack. Guess it's time for a nap.
Let's see...
Party was great! Lots of good food, the best guests (Nathan, Sydney, and then Dan), good drinks, fun!
We played "Life", a bit complicated given the kids' ages but it was a Christmas gift they wanted to try out...kids watched ball drop at 11 (it was midnight in NY).
I leaned over to kiss Nathan and Sydney as everyone on TV was kissing for New Year's. Dan was holding [censored] so I leaned at him and he turned like he would kiss me on the mouth. I just tipped my head and kissed him on the cheek. So funny b/c a month ago I would have given a limb to get a kiss from him and then I chose to minimize it!
Dan kept hinting that he thought I would be 'out' tonight. I just said, "Yeah, I thought I might be too, but another time..." CA texted me happy new year around 8ish and I texted him back a reply awhile later, that was pretty much it.
Dan was on the phone on and off with his best friend Nathan talking about cattle. Apparently one of the ugliest bulls they have ever seen just had a half-interest sell for $50,000!! Dan said it was pretty much a case where a good salesman found someone with a ton of money, interest in cows, and no knowledge of quality. So the ignorant investor paid way too much for a crappy cow...
Anyway I told him I hope he has the same luck in Denver in a couple weeks. He and a partner are trying to sell a half-interest in a pretty good bull and they are hoping to get 'only' $15,000...
Oh well probably putting you to sleep with that story!
I have bee cleaning/organizing all day and watching a "Next Iron Chef" marathon on tv. Making me hungry!!! May take myself out for steak this evening...
BBJ,
I sent you a message in the alt.
Got the message, Lotus..
Pondering more but I did reply...
Thanks K! It was a pretty happy new year...
Been cleaning like a crazy person today, trying to reorganize the house and feel focused before going back to work.
Something strange happened yesterday. I decided I really don't care if I lose my ELL job. I decided to ask BBJ what she really wanted to do with her life, and it is NOT teaching ELL.
Turns out like most other areas of her life, she has become great at fitting into holes that other people/schools have so that she can meet their needs, not necessarily her own! (Go figure...)
OK can't refer to myself in third person anymore, weird! Anyway I have tried to be as 'marketable' as possible for a long time, with all of our moves. So I take the jobs that are available. I thought about what job I have liked the most yesterday. I really liked early intervention (special ed. preschool for 3-5 year olds) and Elementary Resource (working with kids in remedial reading and math programs in grades K-3).
So I decided that I am going to focus on getting a job in one of those areas as soon as I can find one. It might be next year, or the year after. But I will keep focused on that career-wise. Good news is the two remedial reading teachers in my building are around 60 so they will retire soon. (There is an incentive for teachers in IA retiring around age 62)
My dream job would be more along the lines of helping out poor kids in dire straits, like the three I sponsor through World Vision. But I haven't found a job there that matches my skill set. They need professional fundraisers, accountants, etc more tha teachers! So I still get to help the underdog with a remedial teaching position.
Been working slowly through "Getting Past Your Breakup". It talks about how moving past the relationship allows you to make decisions for yourself for what may be the first time ever! (In my case for sure, marrying right out of college.)
To choose vacations, jobs, homes, life goals because they are truly what I want to do with my life, instead of being what fits in with my husband's life and career path, is going to be so new and different! I have already started down that line with the landscaping and some interior design upgrades. But there is so much more out there that I think I am about to discover.
OH, but for now I am still in the chapter on going No-Contact with your ex. (Except for talk about the children of course.) Turns out I need to re-iontroduce myself.
Hi. I'm Bobbi Jo. I am addicted to communicating with my almost-ex to keep our connection alive....
But I am sure if I will keep reading it will help me learn to STOP THAT!!!
Happy New Year all. Time to shower and get ready for a party...
Hi. I'm Bobbi Jo. I am addicted to communicating with my almost-ex to keep our connection alive....
Boy that's tough. It sounds like you guys at least liked to talk. I can imagine, as time goes on, fairly quickly getting to the point where W and I don't talk for weeks. She's so introverted she rarely calls anyone just to talk. She'll go months at a time without talking to her best friends. Only her mom and sisters speak with her regularly.
It will be weird -- it already is weird to be so distant.
Hi. I'm Bobbi Jo. I am addicted to communicating with my almost-ex to keep our connection alive....
Boy that's tough. It sounds like you guys at least liked to talk. I can imagine, as time goes on, fairly quickly getting to the point where W and I don't talk for weeks. She's so introverted she rarely calls anyone just to talk. She'll go months at a time without talking to her best friends. Only her mom and sisters speak with her regularly.
It will be weird -- it already is weird to be so distant.
On the other hand, Dan and I talk on a daily basis, pretty much. Every other day for sure...he still hangs out here all the time, he has been here almost every single day from Christmas Eve until today, this is the first day I think that I haven't seen him in about 12 days...
This is going to be weird, uncomfortable, but...necessary...
You know what, a really hard stretch of going dark, NC, might be what you two really need.
(((((BobbiJo))))))
It's tricky. But my opinion is that being "friends" really won't work. You can be civil. You can be friendly. You can cooperate as co-parents. But I think if you try to be friends you are going to confuse yourself, tbx, and the kids. There will be unspoken and contradictory expectations floating around that will just extend the pain, rather than allow the healing to start.
I can understand being in contact everyday for the sake of the kids, but having him hang out at your house is going to need to stop for you to move forward.
Hey BBJ,, if Dan has been hanging around so much, something tells me it is not because of the kids. If that were the case, he could take them to his house. It is obvious to anyone reading along here that BBJ is nowhere close to wanting to move on. Nothing wrong with that. I hope that book helps but again it is pretty hard to get over your break up when you see your H for 12 days straight....not at the drive through but in your house. BBJ I bet a whole bunch of us would be feeling the same way if our exes were lingering around for so long. pretty difficult to mourn the end of a relationship when the body is lying on your couch and still breathing.
Hope things work out BBJ,,,I am still pulling for you.
Hey BBJ,, if Dan has been hanging around so much, something tells me it is not because of the kids. If that were the case, he could take them to his house. It is obvious to anyone reading along here that BBJ is nowhere close to wanting to move on. Nothing wrong with that. I hope that book helps but again it is pretty hard to get over your break up when you see your H for 12 days straight....not at the drive through but in your house. BBJ I bet a whole bunch of us would be feeling the same way if our exes were lingering around for so long. pretty difficult to mourn the end of a relationship when the body is lying on your couch and still breathing.Hope things work out BBJ,,,I am still pulling for you.
John,
That right there is funny! Because I got home around eleven from the party I went to, and he was literally sleeping on my couch!! I wasn't sure what to do, he had Sydney curled up with him. So I took her away from him and put her in bed. He said he was there sleeping by her b/c she kept waking up her brother.
Sure enough she came walking out of her room seconds later. So I put her in my bed and came back out. Dan was back asleep!? I debated waking him again or not, and I went and iced my back instead. Don't know why but my lower back on the left side has been killing me for 2 days...
So at 11:40 his alarm on his phone went off. He woke up again and got his coat and left. Tonight we review the final draft of our divorce settlement, then it is time to sign and be done with the legal part.
John, not sure what you meant about 'if he is hanging around so much it is not because of the kids'. I am pretty damn sure it isn't to be around me. He hasn't initiated a touch of any kind in a year except the occasional 'hold hands to say grace' business. I am thinking it is just more convenient to him to have them at my house instead of his parents...
And no John I am not totally done. I need help with that, hence the book...something has to change. Since Dan seems to want to continue this dance I will have to be the one to change the steps...
(((((BobbiJo)))))
I hope your back feels better soon! Did you do something to hurt it?
I think Dan is about appearances, by spending his time with the kids at your house, he can let it "appear" that things are "normal". I think he is ashamed (though not enough to have let it stop him) of what he has done, and the less he has to be public (taking the kids to his parents' house), the better he likes it. Of course, BobbiJo, you know that you are going to have to raise a boundary on that one. What he is doing is confusing to the kids, I don't see any way around that.
I hope things go smoothly for you this evening... I know it's not what you wanted, and it will be hard, in a way. But I really don't see another path that makes any sense at all. HUGS!
Jeff, I am not sure what I did to my back. I mean, I have moved some furniture around and stuff getting cleaned and organized around the house.
But it is one side in particular and very reminiscent of the time I went to the doc for a pulled muscle in my back (I thought) only to find out I had a severe kidney infection. My two choices were to into hospital for IV antibiotics, or go in after teaching every day for 5 days and get giant shots in both hips. I went with door #2 so I didn't miss work. If it isn't better tomorrow I will have to go to the doc...
Hey BBJ, I am not even sure what I meant....it just seems odd that a grown man would spend so much time in your house to be with the kids. Maybe I am not grasping the dynamics of the situation. 12 straight days....he is obviously getting something out of that....maybe just the comfy couch.
BBJ! Make sure you get to the doc if it isn't better! I was wondering if it might not be something like that, being so location specific. Take care!
Hey Bobbi.. Happy New Year! And thanks for the tip.. I saw some in the shop here, but they were super expensive! I might get then though, hey its for an important reason..
So I put her in my bed and came back out. Dan was back asleep!? I debated waking him again or not, and I went and iced my back instead...
...Bobbi how would you/will you feel when Dan no longer is lying asleep in your house when you come home? That instead of seeing him for 12 days straight.. you might not see him at all for 2 weeks and only then for a child handover, becuase thats how it will be presumably, one day.. at the monment you dont have to face that reality, because he's still very much in your life (just not in a R way!) and you know deep down that you can 'rely' on him being around like this, like a ghost drifting around your life.
Do you think he's in MLC? Someone once said to me, MLCers are different and need consistency, never turn them away.. or not? Do you think he's done? Really? Or not? What does your intuition tell you?
What could you have done differently above? Could you have said, why are you here? Thanks for settling Sydney, but you are divorcing me, therefore its probably not appropriate that you choose to sleep in my house, especially without asking permission...
I know you talked about it here a bit and read all the workbooks... but you never really did set proper boundaries with Dan,
let go and made him feel the true weight of his decision.
I say this becuase I've always been so damn curious as to what might have happened if you did!
Al xxx
I leaned over to kiss Nathan and Sydney as everyone on TV was kissing for New Year's. Dan was holding [censored] so I leaned at him and he turned like he would kiss me on the mouth. I just tipped my head and kissed him on the cheek. So funny b/c a month ago I would have given a limb to get a kiss from him and then I chose to minimize it!
something tells me that detachment does not work this way...
I would have kissed one of his cows before kissing him on the cheek
I would have kissed one of his cows before kissing him on the cheek
ROTFLMAO!!! OMG Mike, you bad boy you!
EEEEWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG Kerry! You kill me!
Oh dear... Kerry, those bulls didnt manage to hold on to their...N.U.T.S.
Can't open links at school, will check that out tonight!
So it is 10 am here in Iowa... currently -14*F NOT including the wind chill...and yep we still are at school!
My back pain is really getting to me, starting to wrap around to the front/abdomen on that same left side...doctor appt. at 11:30. If it isn't kidney infection then I really pulled something in my back! Ouch, not fun...
The wrapping around does sound like a kidney infection.
OMG! -14f!!!!!!!!! Don't read my thread then and all my moaning about how cold it is here this morning.
It will sound like a tropical wonderland to you. LOL!
OMG Kerry gross gross gross LMFAO!!!!!!!
Mishka that sounds right...kidney infection, or EEEEEK stone...those hurt like a biotch...
http://www.ketv.com/weather/grid.html#HEARSTWX=http%3A//www.ketv.com/weather/15514345/media.html%3Fqs%3D%3Bref%3D/weather/17907004/media.html%3Blongname%3D7%2520Day
Cold, followed by hellish cold, then just freakin' cold...ugh.
Those are fahrenheit, people!
So I went to dr today. He said not sure if it is kidney infection or pulled muscle, sending urine sample to the lab to see 'what grows'...still hurts and I am freaking exhausted!
Then after school Nathan was at the doctor for an hour...ran the flu test and strep test, both came back negative...so he just has 'the crud'...fever and sore throat and tired...
Our house is going to be pretty low key tonight. Except that Dan is planning to come over since he won't see the kids for 10 days when he leaves Friday. I was determined to leave while he was here to further the minimal contact. Really want to go to bed but I will push through it!
Hope you are getting some rest even with Dan the man in the house.
How long did the doc say it would take to culture?
Glad Nathan isn't carrying major infection, but heavens, the poor kids have been so sick this last year. Poor babies!
Let's see, MIL has the swine flu version of the flu...so does my brother-in-law, who Dan took Nathan to visit over the weekend. Dan also went to the doc today and is sick with some random virus. Plus Nathan....we are a sick bunch!!!
Doc said 48 hrs to culture my sample so we'll see. I felt a little bad about it, given that Dan is sick too, but I went to bed once he got here and got up just before he left. I feel a little better but will probably be going back to bed soon. I just cannot get warm!!
Have you considered a move to here?...
http://www.wunderground.com/global/stations/89009.htmlThe forecast is just a bit cooler, but it is generally dryer than Iowa. Lots of unoccupied land, and if you build a house, every way you look out the windows would be north. Not sure about the employment or school situation there. Kids would probably enjoy the penguins on trips to the coast.
Sorry to hear about all the sickness and the cold spell. It sounds miserable.
The cold is pretty miserable, Kerry, maybe I should move!
Nathan went to school today as he didn't have a fever this morning. He did have a funky rash over his upper back/shoulders/upper arms...however he is an allergy/asthma kid and I realized he wore a shirt to school yesterday that was new from Christmas and I didn't wash it first...so I think that's all it is. I hope so anyway!
My back feels a little better today, hopefully it will continue to improve. I read some more in the "Getting Past Your Breakup" book last night. It is a very good read, but I am trying to go through it slower than I normally would. I am a fast reader by nature, but I don't want to breeze through something if I should be taking it to heart...
Happy Tuesday everybody!
So, it won't be a whole lot of fun negotiating with a man whose entire job is sales, numbers, money, and who has to have a cutthroat mentality to make it to the top dog position and keep it as he has...
He had 2 questions on the draft. One was on the annual income we stated that he had. He said he doesn't make that much. Atty said he does with bonus income included and it is included when figuring child support.
So Dan says then why would I be offering you 25% of my bonus for the next 8 years if you are already taking support based on that? It would be double-dipping...
Mind you it was 100% HIS idea to give me part of his bonus checks, my atty said that NEVER happens so to take it and run. That means I can't enforce it if he doesn't want to do it... bummer. Looks like the bonus $$ will be included when calculating child support but now I won't be getting a percentage, too...
Then he says again there is no way he can pay me my lump payout in 30 days, he needs until May 1 to see how much he gets in bonus and tax returns. He wants to pay me off with tax and bonus money if he can so he doesn't dip into the 401k or sell cows...
My atty said that the 30 day number is not a legal requirement, it can be changed to May 1...just depends on whether I want to argue about it...
Deal is right now Dan has no attorney. If I push on more of this stuff he may get one and then it will take even longer and cost a lot more...grr...
<<So, it won't be a whole lot of fun negotiating with a man whose entire job is sales, numbers, money, and who has to have a cutthroat mentality to make it to the top dog position and keep it as he has...>>
Especially if he has no conscience, guilt or remorse......
BBJ, you just need to figure out what is acceptable to you (and the kids) and comapre that with what your attorney thinks he can get you. Mix it all together and away you go...in an ideal world it would be 50 / 50 but as fara s your possesions are concerned and then all you have to worry about is mathematics regarding child support. But we do not live in an ideal world.
(((((BobbiJo)))))
Not too shocking, is it? He hasn't been living in reality for a long time. He was making deals that were not any more real than the rest of his reality.
As far as the bonus thing goes, I think the best you can do is to have it included in the calculations. I'm guessing that means if he doesn't get the bonuses he'll have to prove it. If you took a percentage I'm ready to bet he would find a way to hide them.
Going to May 1 might not be a terrible compromise. For one thing, it's coming quickly! And it is well before you should have to worry about you job, right? So you will be covered as far as your biggest concerns.
I think you are right, if he gets an attorney, things are not going to get better.
So, it won't be a whole lot of fun negotiating with a man whose entire job is sales, numbers, money, and who has to have a cutthroat mentality to make it to the top dog position and keep it as he has...
oh sister do I hear you on this one.. my sympathies.
Then he says again there is no way he can pay me my lump payout in 30 days, ..... so he doesn't dip into the 401k or sell cows...
ROTFLMAO.. yep.. had similar conversation with my STbX.. How many cows are YOU worth?
It frustrated me then & does now.. that'll he'll sell them to pay me off, but wouldn't sell them when I asked him to years ago, to change his work-aholic lifestyle. argg... again.. more hugs & sympathies.
Peace
Bridge
I guess the thing is, my attorney and I both KNEW I was not entitled to his bonus income after we are divorced, but he was giving it to me anyway, by his own decision.
I shouldn't have had 'expectations'...
I already had projects in mind each year--siding for the house, remodel the bathroom, pay down the mortgage, etc etc. Oh well, I will survive without it!
Legally, neither of his issues is 'enforceable', they could be taken to a judge if I wanted to argue it but it would probably cost more than it is worth.
The one issue is how high his salary is stated on the decree to calculate child support. (He thinks if bonus $$ is included there he shouldn't have to give me 25% of his bonuses, which was his idea anyway!)
The second issue is giving me my lump sum payout to even out our assets--he gives me $xx,000 and he gets to keep all the farm animals and equipment and the 401k. Atty listed due in 30 days, Dan wants 120 days. Apparently there is no set time period for that...
So worst-case scenario I don't get cuts of his bonus, which I am not legally entitled to anyway, and he gets to pay me by May 1 instead of Feb. 7..I suppose that is not so bad!
Atty said he does with bonus income included and it is included when figuring child support.
So Dan says then why would I be offering you 25% of my bonus for the next 8 years if you are already taking support based on that? It would be double-dipping...
Mind you it was 100% HIS idea to give me part of his bonus checks, my atty said that NEVER happens so to take it and run. That means I can't enforce it if he doesn't want to do it... bummer. Looks like the bonus $$ will be included when calculating child support but now I won't be getting a percentage, too...
BBJ Child support in Tennessee used to be a base percentage of gross annual income minus Social Security..
basically..if a man carried the child on his insurance then he paid 21% of his yearly income (minus SS) for child support...if you did not carry them then you paid 31% of your yearly income..Tennesse has now went to a more balanced approach where both parents incomes are figured in to reach a child support number for the non custodial parent..
I can see why Dan has took backwater after seeing the numbers...it does sound like double dipping...I am of the opinion that the support should be fair...
as for the 401k money..I'd tell him to sell the cows..
Deal is right now Dan has no attorney. If I push on more of this stuff he may get one and then it will take even longer and cost a lot more...grr...
you are correct on that part...It blows my mind that Dan is actually doing this using your attorney...he has no represenation..you would think a "top dog" would be smarter than that.
Him offering the bonus percentage was just a strategy - buttering you up so that you might agree to a lower alimony.
He should realize that alimony is tax deductable whereas giving you 25% of a questionable bonus is not.
Just go by his last 3 years taxes and pay stubs to calculate income (which includes bonus's) for the child support calculation. Scratch the bonus sharing.
Work with him on the negotiations as much as possible, because if he does get his own L things can get spendy.
30 days does seem like kind of a short time for him to get the asset buyout settled. My judgement specified that I had 90 days.
Poor me...I got a nice bonus which was calculated for my income the year we got divorced. However, the last 2 years I have not gotten a bonus. So, if I had gone with Dan's plan, I would be much better.
as for the 401k money..I'd tell him to sell the cows..
Just a thought.. in Iowa you entitled to 1/2 his 401K & he to yours. That is a non-taxable roll-over event. But it doesn't give you the $$ for cash flow or a pile of $$ to dip into for future job training (like your ideas about career change).
If he sells the cows there will more than likely be capital gains tax + income tax which easily can top 35% depending on the tax bracket he would be in, which he could argue should come out of the sales proceeds.
What my StBX is considering is taking a loan out against the cows/machinary for a portion of my lump sum up front payment & then I'm taking the remainder as scheduled payment.
It isn't easy, despite it being 'just business'.. thinking of you
Bridge
For me, the child support calculation used both our incomes, took into account that I payed child care and also used a percentage of physical custody time. Even though we share 50%, I still pay her $600 a month since our salaries differ by quite a bit.
Does Dan get to declare both kids for deductions/tax credits or are you splitting?
LOL bonuses....my company use to give awesome bonuses...every year...they use to announce it in the local newspapers.."Eastman Chemical to give XXX percent bonus this year" My first wife took me back to court every time that came out in the paper....they don't do that anymore...they did away with those bonuses..
For me, the child support calculation used both our incomes, took into account that I payed child care and also used a percentage of physical custody time. Even though we share 50%, I still pay her $600 a month since our salaries differ by quite a bit.
Does Dan get to declare both kids for deductions/tax credits or are you splitting?
it's figured that way in Tennessee now..
Good thing my aunt and uncle never got divorced - he was a turkey farmer.
There has to be a good joke waiting to be created about cows and divorce.
So Dan just emailed and said to change the payout due date to 5/1 but leave the rest alone...(which would include the salary difference and bonus $$).
His words? If we leave his estimated salary as it is on the decree, it is more than he will make for several years to come, so we won't have to go back to court to ask for more of his money for a long time... ?? Ok, that sounds logical from his stand point, pay me more now so you don't have to renegotiate later?? Think he must just want to be done with it...
Oh well on the good side I let my atty. know so I should get the paperwork and have it signed by the end of the week!
Kerry~ you crack me up.
Bobbi~ I keep waiting for my STBXH to change his tune too. We shall see. I hope your feeling better.
Bobbi, are you and he negotiating it in person or through email. I'm trying to prepare myself for what it feels like.
Bobbi, are you and he negotiating it in person or through email. I'm trying to prepare myself for what it feels like.
Email....
I replied to his earlier email and said that per his request I had told the atty to change to due date to 5/1 and left everything the same.
Then I told him I got a reminder card in the mail from the KC accounting firm (where we did our taxes the past several years)and did he want to do this last year of joint filing there again?
His reply?
I am moving to Bermuda you can do taxes with them if you want...
Nice
Oh and someone had asked about claiming the kids...this year we are doing our 2009 taxes jointly and splitting any money we get in tax returns...
If subsequent years, we will each claim one child, until the oldest is no longer eligible. Then Dan gets to claim the remaining child.
I am moving to Bermuda you can do taxes with them if you want...
Good luck getting those cows through the metal detector machines.
Nice one!
Well thanks to the efficiency of email and document attachments I have the revised, hot-off-the-press, final draft of the decree sitting on my desk.
Now that it is one we both agree to, it is a matter of two notarized signatures, then "the marriage previously existing is hereby dissolved, the marriage is terminated, and the parties are returned to all rights of single persons".
"all rights of single persons"?
Do single persons have more rights?
I guess it is the right of a single person to do things without considering how it would affect a spouse. A single person has the right to date others...
Hmmm...........isn't this what most of our spouses were doing anyway??? So I guess it won't change much for them.
He just texted me that once they take taxes out of his 401k it won't be enough to pay my full lump sum amount, so "let's hope for a big tax refund!"
Ummm. Ok. Either way you still have to pay me. May have to offload some cows. Sweet, then you really CAN blame me for ruining your dream!
I did not reply, there was nothing to reply to. How he gets the money is not my problem. I hear you can make a lot donating plasma...
"all rights of single persons"?
Do single persons have more rights?
This one made me chuckle for some reason. I think they should add rights and responsibilities of a single person. Think that would make things more interesting.
Hmmm...........isn't this what most of our spouses were doing anyway??? So I guess it won't change much for them
LOL! Exactly what I was thinking.
End of the week? You don't have to wait for a judges sig on the docs?
Hmmm...........isn't this what most of our spouses were doing anyway??? So I guess it won't change much for them
LOL! Exactly what I was thinking.
End of the week? You don't have to wait for a judges sig on the docs?
Yep a judge will sign it but Rob (my atty) knows lots of judges. We don't have to go to court, he can just visit one and have him/her sign off on it as soon as Dan and I sign it...
I hear you can make a lot donating plasma...
Well that is assuming that they had blood to begin with...lol
kat
Hey Bobbbi, sending you hugs. Well done on ignoring his crass text.
Guess today is a sh*tty day huh. Thinking of you,
Love al xxx
Thanks Al. I am home again from school as we are getting MORE SNOW!!! Another 4-7" worth. That makes 3 feet of it on the ground as the other snow hasn't melted. Then again it hasn't been above 20*F for a week or two! Tomorrow the high is zero degrees, then the next two overnight lows are -15*F and -21*F, not counting wind chill which will be around -40*F!!!
Brr...
Oh, Dan took the decree home with him last night. He came over to see the kids, and I left and ran errands the whole time. Trying not to be around him so much. He said he would read it over and bring it back tonigt. Signed, I assume...
Nathan still sick with yet another virus. So good thing it is a snow day and I don't have to take off work!
Please send me some snow. Last week, ours only stayed around for a few hours and was melted by the warm rain. Sadly, when we get storms in the winter, they are usually referred to as "Pineapple express" because they come from the south west and are warm.
One thing that is great is to take that extra cold snow and make snow cones with it. We did that last year during our big storm and my XGF said it was the best snow cone she ever had. Do you have the flavored syrup?
Hey, Kerry! We have eight inches coming tomorrow! I'll share!
OMG, just reading those temperatures are making me grateful for my 19-34* temps.
We never had to go to the court either but it took 2 weeks from the time we signed until the judge stamped it and signed it.
Me either... 54 degress and guess what.... CLOUDY WITH A CHANCE OF RAIN! Shocking right?
58, heading for 70. Sunny.
Just another winter day in the desert.
Me either... 54 degress and guess what.... CLOUDY WITH A CHANCE OF RAIN! Shocking right?
If you need to cool off, take a swim in your harbor as it is a refreshing 46 degrees.
After you my dear KerryK... after you!
Given a choice, I would always choose to spend 10 minutes as a streaker in Bobbi Jo's weather than 10 minutes skinny dipping in your harbor. I may be a technically a girl afterwards though.
Yep a judge will sign it but Rob (my atty) knows lots of judges. We don't have to go to court, he can just visit one and have him/her sign off on it as soon as Dan and I sign it...
Really? I'll have to ask my attorney about that one.. I know we can request a waiver in the 90 waiting period.. didn't realize all you had to do was seek out the judge... I thought they still had to set a court date for the signature.
did you do the children in the middle classes by now as well?
Yep a judge will sign it but Rob (my atty) knows lots of judges. We don't have to go to court, he can just visit one and have him/her sign off on it as soon as Dan and I sign it...
Really? I'll have to ask my attorney about that one.. I know we can request a waiver in the 90 waiting period.. didn't realize all you had to do was seek out the judge... I thought they still had to set a court date for the signature.
did you do the children in the middle classes by now as well?
Hey:
Our 90 days started when I filed in September, so we are past that time limit now. We have 30 days from the day the decree is executed to complete the "Children in the Middle" class. I will be taking it in a week or two...
It's interesting how every place is a little different. At least one of us had to take out class before it could be signed, really both. If someone chose to not take the class, then they don't get kid time.
Hey, Kerry! We have eight inches coming tomorrow! I'll share!
Given a choice, I would always choose to spend 10 minutes as a streaker in Bobbi Jo's weather than 10 minutes skinny dipping in your harbor. I may be a technically a girl afterwards though.
Hey, Kerry! We have eight inches coming tomorrow! I'll share!
Somehow I knew someone would comment on that... and LOOK who it was! LoL I was hoping you would share your HOSE!
Hey, Kerry! We have eight inches coming tomorrow! I'll share!
Somehow I knew someone would comment on that... and LOOK who it was! LoL I was hoping you would share your HOSE!
Sorry for the hijack Bobbi.... I know you are snowed in!
Yep a judge will sign it but Rob (my atty) knows lots of judges. We don't have to go to court, he can just visit one and have him/her sign off on it as soon as Dan and I sign it...
Really? I'll have to ask my attorney about that one.. I know we can request a waiver in the 90 waiting period.. didn't realize all you had to do was seek out the judge... I thought they still had to set a court date for the signature.
did you do the children in the middle classes by now as well?
I find this interesting...and BBJ..I have a question for you..
1st off..In Tn. both parents are required to attend the co-parenting class before a D is granted...also..in Tn..the Spouse who files for D is required to show up in court for the hearing..the other is not unless it is contested...
My 1st...I did not go to court..my second..I went because I wanted Kim to see me as she stood in open court..I wanted her to put a face with what she was doing..I really wanted the moment when she told the jugde she wanted a D "burned in her memory"...as a matter of fact I hope what she did and the D process causes her to have nightmares, bad dreams, visitations by demon spirits etc..
and before someone yells.."Ah hell..Mike is just bitter"...I'll say this..I have no bitterness towards Kim at all..we get along really well to be divorced..we have a good co parenting relationship..
so my question to you BBJ....
why not go to court and have a judge sign it..with Dan present...just so he could feel it..see it..see your face, hear the emotion in your voice??
I wish that GA had required parenting class. We don't....not that it would have helped Gabe in any way, but I think the states that require it are at least making an effort.
BBJ - have you been able to get your door open yet?
I just spent 4 hours last night - $60.00 for a parenting class. It would be interesting to watch STBXH in his. As the people talk about their cheating lying spouses and what the Walk away does to their children.
Of course, the flip side is there will be plenty of bait in the room, because amazingly everyone in the room I was in was innnocent ... except the quiet ones. LOL So maybe he'll bring his pole!!
I was scoping out the bait at my parenting class. XW and I took it at the same time, although they did split us (and spanish speaking) into separate classrooms. My kids even had their own age appropriate class which was optional but worth it. It was 4 class meetings over 4 weekends. I learned diddly squat as I had already read a book about co-parenting and helping kids cope with divorce.
I hear you Mike on the court appearance. It was priceless to hear my L comment to me about how much a cold faced B my XW was when he met with her L and her privately to iron out final negotiations in a side court room.
I hear you Mike on the court appearance. It was priceless to hear my L comment to me about how much a cold faced B my XW was when he met with her L and her privately to iron out final negotiations in a side court room.
it's sure easy enough to get a divorce...I think if that's what you're after then you should have to stand up and frinkin say it...
I don't think it should be easy and I don't think you should be able to pay a man/woman who has a lawyers degree to stand up there for you and tell a judge that you want one...I think you should have to stand up there yourself and tell the world...and that the LBS should be in the courtroom so you can see their face...
straight up and to the point in all aspects of life....
Mike funny you should say that...the night I gave Dan the dissolution papers to look over, before we got the official draft, I asked him (I don't cared if I get 2 x 4'd I felt I had the right)
"Will you just say to my face, 'I don't want you to be my wife and I don't want to be your husband'?"
Because he has been so avoidant, with convenient little phrases like, "I don't know how to fix things" or "It is what it is", and "I don't like it, I hate it but I don't know how to fix it" etc etc.
He has never come right out and said "I want a divorce"although he has said, "I don't want a divorce" a dozen times... And since I got to be the one to hire the attorney, sit there in meetings and hammer out the framework of ending my marriage when I didn't even want it to end, etc etc, I felt he ought to be able to at least say one sentence to own this thing.
Well that night he said, "I won't ever be able to say that" and he got up and left. Nice...
Anyway back to the current time. Dan left last night to go to Denver for 9 days for a huge livestock show and sale. He was here Thursday night but I stayed out of the way the whole time and fell asleep on the couch before he came out of the kids' room from putting them to bed...
Anyway I had given him the official final draft on Tuesday and he said he would sign it in front of the notary and give it back to me on Wednesday. Then he called Wednesday and said he was going to spend the evening doing laundry and packing for the trip, and come over Thursday. Then Thursday, I woke up as he was getting his coat to leave. He said bye and he would call when he got to Denver, and he left. I realized after he left that he never gave me the signed papers...
Question: Do I address that with him while he is gone? Or wait till he gets back? Or what?
Thing is the atty was going to try to make it effective Jan 1 so we could file next year's taxes totally separately...now this thing is pushed back to at least Jan 18. UNLESS he signed the paper and left it at his parents' house or at work, in which case I could go get it while he was gone and get my side of it signed and finished. So do I bring it up?
Oh and sorry I haven't posted much. Nathan was sick Monday-Friday with strep and pinkeye and I have been exhausted and freezing! No school Wed-Fri thanks to the freezing temps!
Are the cold temps getting any better there? It's been ridiculous for our area. We southerners feel like we're blocks of ice!
Hope Nathan is feeling better now. [censored] didn't get any of that did she?
Ummmm.....I hate to say it, but you know Dan didn't sign the paper, right? He likes this holding pattern FAR too much BBJ. I'm starting to think he likes the drama and turmoil it causes in his own head just a wee bit. If he signs and your M is officially over then what does he have left to feed off of? Nothing. Only himself and that's not enough.
Hmmm....seems to make too much sense to me. Makes me think that may be the issue with so many of these WAS's!!!
Hmm....say it ain't so, Mish!!!
So do I bring it up? I am thinking Monday I just ask my atty how long he has to sign before it is considered and 'uncontested' dissolution or however you say it...
Heck, why not ask him. I'm sorry, he's a complete dumba$$ and can't seem to just man up. He will avoid, avoid, avoid.......call him on it and then call your L.
So how cold is it there now?
You know Bobbi... when STBXH text me on Friday....he referred to it as the SEPERATION stuff. Duh it's DIVORCE.... thought that's what they wanted.... the sure aren't proactive ....your H or mine.
So how cold is it there now?
-5, I came down to the basement for paper clips and I am freezing my @ss off! Back up to the space heater...
OK, 4:30 am....
2 garbage bags full of shredded papers and old binders...
But
My filing cabinet is organized! And my insurance claims are in binders color-coded by family member.
Next step, entering the last 6 months of bank statements into Quicken...but not now. I am too tired!
Love,
Your friendly nerd BBJ
(((((BobbiJo)))))
You are insane.
Out with the old...
Hey BBJ,
I can't (nor do I want to) do anything till 4:30 AM except snooze....
It does npot surprie me that Dan was not able to utter those phrases to you. I am not sure what it would change because I have always stipulated that actions speak louder than words (that goes both ways).
As far as bringing things (his signature) up to him or not, I really don't think it changes much. I guess if you wanted to get ALL this over and done with, you would have been after him to sign prior to his departure.
I know a part of you still is hoping for a last minute turnaround...we have all been there....some just have more patience than others.
John,
I agree with you, actions speak louder than words. I just want him to man up and say it to my face, rather than taking the coward's way out as he has been...but that clearly won't happen so I won't bring it up to him again.
Right Lola, out with the old! I am reorganizing the home office as part of my 2010 resolution to be more organized with my records and my finances. I want to get on track with the Dave Ramsey Total Money Makeover. The goal is to get yourself debt-free except for the house (ideally even the house but hey there is only so much we can do!)...and to get on a budget so you know where your money is going.
With Dan's salary I always had the luxury of knowing we had enough money for what we needed. Mind you I never went on crazy shopping sprees or bought $100+ shoes...but I knew if I wanted a $3 Starbucks or a $30 sweater from JC Penney's I could get it...I also knew if I lost my job we made enough that we could handle it. Now I need to plan ahead and honestly I will probably be more comfortable with less money because I don't have to worry about where/what/who he is spending money on...
Oh and I just got back from signing up for "Mom Boot Camp". It is a 6-week program, M-W-F from 5:30-6:30 am. We had to get weighed and measured today (UGH!!!)and it starts either tomorrow or next Monday...JEFF--by week two we have to be off the bubbly stuff so I guess I will be back on the wagon...
Oh well, nothing else new...
I just want him to man up and say it to my face, rather than taking the coward's way out as he has been...but that clearly won't happen so I won't bring it up to him again.
he's gonna continue to do what he does cause he can...
Dan reminds me of these criminals who want to commit "suicide by cop"..in other words they want to die but are too chicken chitt to pull the trigger themselves...they yell their gonna kill themselves adnt he cops are encouraging them to put the gun down and all of the sudden they point the gun at a cop and boom..they are dead..basically cause they don't have the balls to put the gun to their head and put themselves out of their misery...
Dan is not gonna sign those papers until he's forced..
If you want the divorce then go get it....tell your attorney to push it through...
Excuse me?????? Off the bubbly stuff??? Please tell me you are talking soda and not champagne and the like.
<<If you want the divorce then go get it....>>
To ask the question is to answer it. I think BBJ was looking for a little closure or you might even say that she wanted that stray bullet to hit her. I firmly believe that healing comes from INSIDE YOU and not from someone else's words... someone else’s explanation will not help you to closure.
Mish,
I meant pop, as we call it here...I will budget my drinks for special occasions...
John & Mike,
I am pondering the analogy. It led me to some questions I need to ask myself. I wonder though, in that depiction, if the police never shot the guy, would he have killed himself?
In my case, if I had never filed, never moved the ball forward, what do you think would have happened? Do you think Dan would have just never filed? We would live indefinitely in two separate households but not divorced? Just curious...I couldn't live like that and so I filed...
I tried to answer that question myself and thought he may have just avoided it until another woman in his life (ow or someone else down the line) pushed him to get a D so she could marry him.
Anyway John I need to delve deeper into that "getting past your past/breakup" book. I got a couple chapters in and then Dan left town and I got going on other projects along with having the kids 90% of the time. Tonight I will have to pick it up again...
Maybe Mike/John has it right, and maybe I am the one wanting to get shot, so to speak. If he had filed, if he had cut off all contact, pushed the Divorce through, told me he wanted nothing to do with me, I guess I tell myself that would hurt but also make me face it directly.
This passive, "I love you, I want to be with you but something is missing and I don't know how to get it back" BS is such a sh!tty way to handle things. Actions do speak louder than words and he is showing me that he is not 'in'...
I just think it is cruel or maybe just self-indulgent for him to be in/out, in/out so often the past couple years. Hell in September, 4 months ago, he was talking marriage retreats and making it work...even though his heart was not in it. I just don't understand why he would even start down that road time and again if he didn't honestly want that on some level...
OK this is not the road I need to be going down right now!!! Need to go play with my kids and change my focus...
OK this is not the road I need to be going down right now!!! Need to go play with my kids and change my focus...
Yep, back the car up and go down "Happy Lane" and be satisfied by doing it your way.
There was an Italian American dude who sang something similar...
Spanish sub-titled for Bobbi Jo
Thanks Kerry! :)I am back on the right path...just have to make sure I stay there...
UGH! Last night sucked!
Woke up at 1 a.m. on my kids' floor, came down here and posted I was better.
Went back to sleep and had several bad dreams in a row, all about Dan...
In the first one he came to me and told me he had just found out he had a child from his first affair back in 2002.
(At the time, he was 28 and had an affair with a 39 year old single mom...)
Then he goes on in the dream to tell me he was actually not having the affair back then with the 39 year old, he just let me believe that...he was having it with her 19 year old daughter.
Somehow that morphed into a new dream where he came back home and we were trying to work it out, and I came to bed to find some college-aged stripper-type in my bed...
Alarm went off and woke me up, there were more little dream segments mixed in but you get the idea...
I hit snooze on the alarm and fell asleep, I was suddenly on an outing with my mom/dad and sisters. My mom greets me with "How did you let yourself get so fat again?" and it went downhill from there...
This time the phone ringing woke me up. MIL called with some kind of question. Thank goodness she did as my alarm never went back off. It was 7:40 and I am supposed to be at work at 8!! Got both kids up and dressed and me ready and got to school at 8:10.
What a night/morning! Hope the rest of the day goes better than this!
Hey BBJ, I am a little cofused...did Dan actually have an affair with this woman or is all this fabricated in your mind? How many affairs did he have that you know of? Is this like a Tiger thing? Just curious because I never really paid attention to Dan's indiscretions....I am more focused on reading about you.
Anyhow, if you do not want to go there, that is fine (just curious I guess). you have yourself a nice day...hope the weather is warming up a tad for you.
Hey BBJ, I am a little cofused...did Dan actually have an affair with this woman or is all this fabricated in your mind? How many affairs did he have that you know of? Is this like a Tiger thing? Just curious because I never really paid attention to Dan's indiscretions....I am more focused on reading about you.
Just the facts, as I know them:
Feb 2000: One night stand with stripper in Tokyo (Dan took her back to his hotel), he told me about it the day he got back from his trip or I would never have known...September-November 2002: Our son was born in August, I found out in October that Dan was having an affair. I told him I was leaving town one night after a week of arguments over my suspicions. I didn't leave town, parked outside a bar I knew he went to (with baby nathan in the car seat)and saw him get out of a minivan and into his car at 2:00 a.m., then drive off following the van. He didn't come home that night. The next day I told him what I saw and he confessed. The woman was a 39 yr old single mom of two he had met at a bar and been seeing for a couple weeks. (Found her # his phone and gave it to my attorney sister. She looked it up and found the womans address, age, and legal records!)
The affair lasted until Thanksgiving, with him saying it was over a couple times and me busting him, her calling our house, etc etc. Then I gave an ultimatum that I would move back home to Iowa from Kansas and take our son with me. I got full transparency, his cell phone, he called me from work or wherever he was to check in, told me if she contacted him, etc etc.May 2007-September 2009(?): He had an affair with a 20-something girl from his office who has a boy a year younger than Nathan. You all know that story...Other than that no other physical affairs that I know of, although I know he has frequented the strippers and viewed a lot of porn via videos and magazines, and while in college and the first year of our marriage used the phone sex lines. Some would say those things are just old boys' behavior, but not to me esp when combined with PAs.
SO, yes he had an affair with this woman, but she did not have a 19 year old daughter! Her kids were younger, like 8-12ish...
OK I called a counselor and left a msg. to get an appointment. Obv. I need some additional help here.
Reading his track record, what I posted above, why would I still want to be with him? Of course, I know it is what my kids would like, and intact family, but on a gut level I know it is what I want, too, even if I admit logically that it doesn't make sense.
There is obv. something wrong with me!! Ugh... I let myself believe that since he hasn't pursued the D he must not want it...I am still going forward with it, but I need to stop thinking about the possibility of things changing down the road. Grr...
I completely understand where you are coming from on that one BBJ. A C is an excellent next step. You need to work through your own feelings and get an objective person in front of you guiding your thoughts so that you don't ramble around in your own head and lose focus.
An intact family and what the kids would like are not reasons to stay in a M full of insecurity, infidelity, and lies. That is no example of a healthy R to show your kids, right? Dan has had 12 years to be a man and has chosen poorly throughout all of them. You just listed those choices he made (that you know of) above. Stop trying to sweep them under with "yeah, but" statements in your own mind, ok? There really is no justification for any of it.
BBJ, I know what you are going through. I suspect quite a few have gone down this path. BBJ, a few years ago if I read your story, in all honesty, I would have thought your were crazy. Actually anybody who would want to reconcile with a cheating spouse in my mind was "not all there". Well guess what, I guess I was not all there and a whole bunch of other folks on here. I can't explain it....why we hang on and hang on in spite of all the hurt. But we do...and you are not alone. However, there has to come a time that we say enough is enough.
The reasons I suggested that book is because I have been reading you long enough to know that you are struggling with this. I am glad you are going the C route. I hope they can help somehow.
I don't think there is anything wrong with you. I think what you are going through is normal - at least I hope it is because I am feeling the same way. Your H's track record is similar to my W's. She has had three affairs (that I know of), moved out of the house 4 months ago, and has shown absolutely zero interest in reconciling. Yet here I sit wanting her to change her mind and choose reconcilliation - even though I know that the likelyhood of her cheating again is very high.
I think the reason why I still "want" her, and maybe why you still want Dan as well, is because the her I want is the one I fell in love with, not the her that she has become. I still have this false sense of hope that she can change back into the person she was when we first were married.
S4H
Bobbi Jo - try reading your "facts" post above, but instead of it being Dan, imagine it being your future son in law.
Bobbi Jo - try reading your "facts" post above, but instead of it being Dan, imagine it being your future son in law.
Thanks, Kerry. I have done that a few times, I would rather be stricken with a terminal illness than have Sydney go through that crap!
I know it is true, I have to keep remembering it is true. I think I am mourning the death of a dream, really. My vision/plan for the future. A lot of people and books say, it is like a death, and you have to deal with it that way. But I would argue that it is not the same as a death.
If Dan died, I would be devastated, of course! However if it happened while we were married/together, I would miss him as a loving husband who did not choose to leave me. And I would not be able to ever see him or talk to him, which is far different than the current situation. There would still be questions/what-ifs, etc, but he would literally be gone.
There is a song by Lady Antebellum called "Need You Now", about a couple who is broken up but reaches out to each other anyway...one line that sticks out to me is,
"Guess I'd rather hurt than feel nothing at all"....
And that is probably a part of it. If we are arguing then there is an emotion to feed off of, if we are trying to get back together (again) there are emotions with that, too. But to be almost-not-quite-divorced and still see each other and get along, that is such an awkward place to be.
Of course I haven't said any of this to Dan. The last thing he said about our M was two weeks ago when he said he would never be able to say he didn't want to be my husband or to have me for a wife....
I think I need to keep working on the no contact thing. Haven't tried to talk to him about anything since he left for Denver last Friday. The kids talk to him at night before bed and hand me the phone but I just say have fun and hang up. From now on I will just tell Nathan to hang it up.
Bbj,
where your mind will go, your heart will follow. When you feel sad, remember : it isnt as if there is any other option that you are not choosing. Dan hasnt offered you one.
Hugs
K
Bbj,
where your mind will go, your heart will follow. When you feel sad, remember : it isnt as if there is any other option that you are not choosing. Dan hasnt offered you one.
Hugs
K
Wow....that cheered me up...
OK I know you are helping. It is true, even if I hate it...
Haven't posted much to you K but I am so glad things are moving forward for you and your husband. I have no words of advice as I haven't gotten to where you are! But I am sl glad for you...
Listen, the way I said this is because you cant be beating yourself up with "ifs" and "what ifs"... not to hurt you sis. I've been there. And sometimes our minds forget the obvious and wander to -currently- non existing possibilities only to torture us...
Sorry
Thanks, dont worry. Not much going on here anyway.
K
Well I went for a run and that helped. I need to do it more often. Actually I will soon be starting the 3x per week boot camp/Get Fit Camp, so that's good! Also I am down 2 pounds from last week, unfortunately I was up 5 pounds over the holidays so still 3 pounds to get back to where I was!
I had lost 28 pounds pre-bomb through a fitness and eating plan. After the bomb through these two years of limbo I gained all 28 pounds back! Now I am down 8 of those pounds...hoping to lose 10 more by the end of the school year and 5 more over the summer. Slow and steady...of course I hope to add muscle tone during that time which will not help lose weight but will help me feel stronger and healthier.
Deciding to make the choice to focus on the things I CAN change, like my disorgranized house, my job, and my body...
Good news--just got an email from the Christian counselor that I contacted, she has openings next week! I am fired up that I finally found a Christian counselor who is a female AND young!
No offense to any parties, but most I have looked into are near/past retirement age. Which is fine, but I want someone close to my own age, find that more relatable. The counselor I had in Kansas City wasn't a Christian counselor but she was more my age and I liked that...
OK time to go play with my kids. Tuesday is Family Game Night!
Good job on finding what sounds like a well matched counselor. Be wary if you walk in and see 2*4's laying around
.
I need to do a family game night soon. It is after all one of the achievments toward the cub scout bear rank. That is an easy one to get done. At the last pack meeting, they listed the new activity belt loop and pins that the cub scouts just added and one was video games. You could only imagine the uproar of excitement from the boys when that one was mentioned.
I have not heard talk of the Cornhusker Cartoonist for a while. Sometimes these early meetups just sort of fizzle. At least that is my experience lately. I got a new one that winked and emailed me this morning - asian as usual, but new country of origin - The Philippines.
BBJ I totally understand what you are going through and I am so glad to read that you have called a counselor. You have been doing a good job but you have some serious healing to do. Also have you been able to look into a Divorce Care group?
My H's list of indiscretions is longer than Dan's, but then we have been married longer. I am pretty sure that my H only had one real PA, but there have been several internet and EA's. PA or EA, it all hurts very deeply, a lie is a lie is a lie...
I figured something out just this past Sunday night. I know I haven't said much about my sitch lately, but I will try and fill you in. Basically I am done with the marriage. I am willing to stay legally married for a couple of years in order to pay our debts off, but only if we have a true (in every sense of the word) separation.
H is in panic mode again. He called me Sunday to say he wants to be married (never said to me btw) and does not want to throw everything away. No plan to fix things though...
Then he went on to say he understands now why he seeks out these other woman online... "because he doesn't feel wanted by me." Okay I will play along, so I asked him (via txt) what I could do to make him feel wanted.
He txt'd back three things and when I saw them it hit me. Why we don't work... I cant give him the things he needs because I have no trust. I can trace back to early in our marriage when the trust began to erode. While I was not able to acknowledge it or admit it to myself during all these years I was also not able to function as a wife should.
The abuse I suffered as a child and the unhealthy coping skills I learned followed me into this dysfunctional marriage. I've realized I have a very keen intuition and good instincts. I even know most of the time if H is telling me the truth or not. But I denied that for all these years. I could not face the fact that my H would lie.
However with all that said I wish there was a way to repair things. I doubt I will ever give up that hope. But I know with out my H doing some real work on himself, we could not even begin to work on our marriage.
Gosh I didn't mean to hijack {blush} I hope this makes some sense
Good job on finding what sounds like a well matched counselor. Be wary if you walk in and see 2*4's laying around
.
I need to do a family game night soon. It is after all one of the achievments toward the cub scout bear rank. That is an easy one to get done. At the last pack meeting, they listed the new activity belt loop and pins that the cub scouts just added and one was video games. You could only imagine the uproar of excitement from the boys when that one was mentioned.
I have not heard talk of the Cornhusker Cartoonist for a while. Sometimes these early meetups just sort of fizzle. At least that is my experience lately. I got a new one that winked and emailed me this morning - asian as usual, but new country of origin - The Philippines.
Well, cornhusker cartoonist/CA is still loosely on the radar. His match membership expired at the end of December, while he was in Chicago. He emailed me to tell me it had expired but he hoped we would keep talking...I told him he had my cell # and gave him my email and left the ball in his court.
He texted me to wish me a happy new year on NYE, I replied, then since then we have traded a few texts per week...I figure if he was 'into' me he would ask me out again so I don't push it.
He did mention while he was in Chicago via email that I seemed so happy and upbeat and he worried he was too 'dark' for me...that was during my 'happy BBJ' mode that I am trying now to recapture. Anyway I told him that I too had my battles and shared a little about my situation. He let me know his (his divorce goes through this month) and thanked me for 'opening up'...
I still think he is really cute and interesting but I am not pursuing. I am also not pursuing anyone else right now. Think I need to focus on getting my house in order and see what happens naturally. After some counseling and self-improvement I will revisit the dating situation. Going out with CA did boost my PMA as I enjoyed spending time with a man who enjoyed being with me!
Hi sis
hope you are tremendous. Glad to see you found what seems like a good fit to work on your ..issues ...hehehehe.
mucho prayers and ((( BBJ )))
BBJ..I see you as quite normal...
until you separate out the emotional side of this and the business side of this then I think you will continue to "spin" occasionally...
bottom line..until Dan decides to come back you can "want, wish, hope" till the cows come home..he has never shown any concrete actions that he does not want a Divorce..I personally believe he's such a weak little boy that there would be no way that he could ever go file on his own..my god..he's so weak he can't even sign the papers that have been presented to him..
Truly..I can't figure out why you want him...from what you have said and described..he's a serial adulterer....and his continued I'm in, I'm out, almost borders on abuse..psycological anyway..it's cruel
Hi Bbj,
I used to post to all the time, but moved to another board because I actually did end up finalizing divorce. I still followed you because I hoped maybe you worked it out, but at the same time thought Dan would never change. Your Dan was my Theodore. Let me tell you something, honey. Dan is a weak Puss. Much like everything else, he doesn't have the balls to either end the marriage or work on his faults. You once again have to do the heavy lifting and who needs that. Let it go. Put the weakling out of his ,arriage and go forward with or without his signature. He has done nothing to indicate he wants to be married and more importantly his actions have done nothing to show change. I went through the affairs and I didn't want to let go. But the fact is when H left he continued to see who I am sure was the person he was cheating on me with. About 6 months into the seperation he started sleeping with me, this is of course before ow was confirmed for sure. Point is he hadn't changed. Because he was now doing to her what he did to me. I ended it for good, but I would bet the farm if I wanted to sleep with him tomorrow he would be game. Ever wonder why Dan has only dealt with younger women or women with children or older women? It speaks to his maturity. He is weak so the only way he can feel strong is by dealing with women who "need him", but who he knows he never has to be responsible to. Women with children have there children so they don't make the men priority which means less accountability. Younger women usually have other stuff going on like partying so again less accountability.
Living in limbo hoping for some small sign is no way to live. You are young and your kids are young. You can start over. Put the focus on your kids and Dan. One thing my ex told me when I found out about his indiscretions was, you will never trust me again so I don't see this working. He was right and who wants to live with someone they will always second guess. Resents build and precious time is wasted. You only hav e one life and you certainly don't want to look back and know you wasted it on somebody who didn't waste his life on you. Your kids will understand. Finally I heard today that we all have to walk through the ring of fire at some point in life. You can't control what your ring will be or when you will have to walk through it. I must say if this is mine then I am avery blessed woman.
Thank you! All good points, I know.
My appointment with the counselor is for Wednesday next week. Can't wait to get started!
My attorney emailed me today. Asked if Dan had signed the petition yet. I told him the truth, I didn't know. He said to ask Dan and then we could just go through the courts and push it through without him, force a hearing in front of a judge...
Good day planned. Taking Sydney for a girls' day. We are going out to lunch and then to the stage production of "Little House on the Prairie" based on the book, not the tv show...
However, the actress who played Laura (Melissa Gilbert) from tv is playing the role of Ma! Weird...
Going to be fun! My favorite series growing up, I read and re-read it every year.
I loved LHOTP as well. Have a great time!
Have a great time BBJ!
Have you asked Dan yet about the papers?
First--great time at the play!! It was so much fun! Melissa Gilbert was great at Ma but the actress playing Laura had a much larger role and was outstanding! She was very true to what I always pictured Laura to be like from reading the books. Sydney was as well behaved as a 3 yr old can be for a 3 hour production...
We went out for ice cream after and she loved it. Now she has joined her "Brubby" at my parents' for a sleepover so I can catch up on work. They are so awesome for doing that two Saturdays in a row!!
CA and I traded a couple texts last night, not sure what is up there...maybe he just wants a pen pal. Sounded like this D was very sudden and rough on him (they got married after 6 months together and she left only a few months into the marriage), plus he met her on Match...anyway I can see where he doesn't want to move fast but hey neither do I, I just want to go out once in a while and laugh and have fun!
Re. Dan, I texted him on 1/9 (day after he left for Denver) and asked what the deal was re. paperwork, since he had said he would get it to me Thursday 1/7 before he left town on 1/8 and he didn't...
Never got a response. He has called many times since then to talk to the kids, they usually hand me the phone and I say goodbye and hang up and he has not mentioned it.
Last night I called for the first time and he was literally in the grooming chute with a steer. I told him I wouldn't interrupt but I did need to talk to him before Monday per some information I had from the atty. He said he would call me back tomorrow on the drive back.
Basically I just need to know if he got it signed or not so I can tell the atty. The reason I am not just forcing a hearing is that would require more of my atty time and therefore more of my money. So if I can just get the papers from Dan it will be easier all around.
Kids with my parents overnight. Stayed up till 3:30 entering 5 months of checking into Quicken. Partly to make taxes easier, partly to get caught up which is BBJ's 2010 Mission: Organized/Intentional Living!!
Boot camp starts tomorrow at 5:30 am. Getting excited and anxious...hope I am not too badly out of shape to keep up!
Bought a 3-drawer plastic shelf-unit thing to stick in the bottom of my closet. I only have one dresser as the other one was damaged in our move (btw the bedroom set I have consists of 1 headboard and 1 dresser, both 16 year old particle board!)...
Anyway filled the drawer thing with workout pants, workout tops, and sports bras so each night I can pull out what I need and be ready. Before the workout stuff was all shoved into one drawer in the dresser and it was a mess.
Can't wait to get the tax return and buy a real, craftsman-mission style bedroom set!
Gotta go, off to a birthday party.
I love craftsman style. As a matter of fact, that is what my bedroom set is also. I had never had a matching set until I moved here to GA and refused to drag the old one along.
Something I actually put my foot down on. LOL!
You sound so good BBJ! Keep it up. I'm sure the boot camp will be difficult at first but you are such a motivated, go getter that I don't foresee any problem with you getting into the swing of it quickly.
What's going on girl.... I know boot camp but I know Dan is back so what's the story?
Oh, Sandycay, you had to go there!!
Let's see
1)Today was day 2 of Boot Camp. Still amazing to me that I can run 5 miles but 5 minutes of interval/circuit stuff has me drained and weak!
2)This afternoon I have my first IC session. I went to IC in Kansas City after the bomb and it was so helpful. I am hoping to be able to work on detachment, getting past my past/breakup, etc with her.
3)Dan is back...the first 2 nights I fell asleep on the couch b/c he fell asleep in the kids room and I was waiting for him to come out and give me the docs. I know he is tired but I imagine he was also avoiding a little.
So last night was a repeat, him asleep in the kids' room. I was out all evening working at a wrestling meet so I only saw him in passing as I got home and he was getting the kids ready for bed.
Forgot to mention that when he left Monday he said ‘we can talk tomorrow night’—this was already 12:30 am so I let it go at that. Anyway I went in and thumped him a couple times after kids were asleep bc I wanted to get to bed, had to get up at 5 again this morning for boot camp.
He came out around 11:15 finally and sat in the rocker/glider instead of just getting his coat like he usually does. I asked him if he had the papers with him. He said no. I asked if he had signed them, again he said no.
Then he went in to a lot of his feelings, about how he doesn’t want to get d’d for a multitude of reasons, financial, family/kids, all the repercussions of a D. And he said he realized that I was different and that now I supported his goals, etc etc but he didn’t know how to let go of the past. I acknowledged and said I understood, that I was working on letting go of my past too (dealing with his affairs). I just told him that for his own sake he would have to find a way to let it go even if we were divorced. He agreed.
Then he went back to his standby that he doesn’t trust women in general anymore, that at this point the women in his office annoy him, his mom/sisters annoy him, he hears the ‘crap’ the guys he works with are dealing with w/their wives and he just doesn’t know if it is worth it to have a relationship with a woman. I said that concerned me b/c Sydney will obv. be a woman someday. He said he knew that and it frustrated him b/c he knew as long as he felt this way, he would never be able to have a relationship with anyone, me or someone else down the road…
Again I just said it sucked that he felt that way, and he said that he would have to find a way to work on that feeling b/c it was not a good place to be. He just didn’t know how to change it. I just said that he would probably need outside help with that and he agreed.
Anyway at that point it was 1 am and I told him I had to go to bed. So I got up and went to bed at 1:15 and woke up at 5 for boot camp. I imagine he will bring the papers with him tonight since he admits he doesn’t know how to have a relationship and doesn’t seem to be in a hurry to change that.
I know it sounds dumb, but this week it has almost bothered me that Tiger Woods went to rehab. I mean, some are saying it is just a marketing/PR move. But I would like to think that there are some men out there who genuinely see the error of their ways and take actual ACTIONS to change their lives for the better…
Wow, I've been so busy I totally missed the Tiger/Rehab thing.
Seeing as how S16 is currently in Rehab, that's almost funny.
Would ya stop by when you have time? I could use a little encouragement today. Goldey
Bobbi,
it's a replay. Break the cycle. Dont enable him to put his problems in your lap. He is a big boy. He should be able to handle it. Dont backslide now. Focus on your goal:a HAPPY Bobbi.
xxx
K
Bobbi,
it's a replay. Break the cycle. Dont enable him to put his problems in your lap. He is a big boy. He should be able to handle it. Dont backslide now. Focus on your goal:a HAPPY Bobbi.
xxx
K
Yeah, I was thinking, "Lather, rinse, repeat"...he is smart enough to KNOW he has this problem, don't know why it doesn't matter enough to him to choose to get help. As the father of my children, esp my daughter, it concerns me.
He said something about how getting a D will make it logistically and financially impossible for him to pursue his dreams. I told him at that point that I thought he should get help dealing with that b/c I didn't want his negativity to impact his relationship with his kids. I know that will be his decision though so I will drop it now.
The Dan part of that post gave me a headache...
maybe since he's a "he man woman hater" he can find himself a man somewhere
Dan's good....he's very good...he will never sign those papers BBJ...if you want a D then you will have to go get it..
<<He said something about how getting a D will make it logistically and financially impossible for him to pursue his dreams>>
this line speaks volumes to me...it has to be one of the most selfish lines I HAVE EVER READ ON THIS SITE. God knows I HAVE READ QUITE A FEW.
<<Then he went back to his standby that he doesn’t trust women in general anymore............he would never be able to have a relationship with anyone, me or someone else down the road…>>
So Dan does not trust you??? He dislikes ALL women??? What kind of crap is that?? That is like saying I don't trust all Italinas because they are all in the MAFIA!
On the Tiger issue and cheaters in general, it amazes me what some people will do or realize AFTER they get caught. Do you think Tiger would be in rehab now if his wife did not read those text messages on Thanksgiving?
Bobbi Jo -
Why do you still allow him to have extended time in YOUR house?
It seems that it would get the kids hopes up too much.
Let your lawyer know about the procrastinating woman hating bull sh!tter and let your lawyer get err done.
I imagine he will bring the papers with him tonight since he admits he doesn’t know how to have a relationship and doesn’t seem to be in a hurry to change that.
Imagine all you want BBJ - you
KNOW he won't bring the papers tonight either. Yes, lather, rinse, repeat....keep BBJ on tenterhooks so she can't really do any further movement either. Keep her confused....then keep her down.
He's such a tool.
Sorry, I know that's not nice and he's the father of your children, but that's all he is. Being a father and being R material are not connected in any way. Separate the two and you'll do fine.
4.5 hours of sleep and doing boot camp? You know you're going to get sick like that right? Please get some rest. Go to bed even if Dan is still hanging around. Don't talk to him, he doesn't hear you, frankly could care less about you at this moment. He doesn't want his precious wallet hit, that was a disgusting statement he made. Get him away as soon as possible!
Imagine all you want BBJ - you KNOW he won't bring the papers tonight either. Yes, lather, rinse, repeat....keep BBJ on tenterhooks so she can't really do any further movement either. Keep her confused....then keep her down.
I tend to agree with this. Those papers are going to sit unsigned for as long as he can draw this out - no matter what the emotional cost to BBJ - he doesn't really care about that, just the impact on him.
S4H
(((((BobbiJo)))))
I didn't see anything that had to do with BBJ in the list of why he doesn't want to D. It's all about him, what it will look like, and what impact it will have on him. Yep, selfish.
(((((BobbiJo)))))
I didn't see anything that had to do with BBJ in the list of why he doesn't want to D. It's all about him, what it will look like, and what impact it will have on him. Yep, selfish.
I noticed that too.
One other thing he said was, at this point, when it comes to counseling/advising Nathan on relationships, he intends to tell him:
Nathan focus on you and your goals/dreams, and do not sacrifice them for anyone or anything.On one hand, this makes a lot of sense. We have seen so many people on here, me included, who have forgotten what they wanted from life b/c they tried too hard to make someone else happy and meet their needs...I mean if Nathan planned to go to California to study computer animation after high school and then gave it up to go to local community college to be close to his 16 yr old girlfriend, I would think he was making a HUGE mistake.
However, at a certain point in life, selfless loving/giving does require sacrifice. I think there must be a happy medium in there somewhere...
Edit: Maybe that is why people are waiting to marry until their 30s instead of right after college like I did? Because by then they have most likely had the opportunity to be self-focused and pursue their life/career goals?
BBJ,
when you have time, try reading Passionate Marriage or try to find the principle of differentiation Vs fusion.
You can sacrifice things for the one you love, only if it is a concious choice you can live by and you do it on your own, no manipulation, ultimatums, fear involved.
Then, it becomes no sacrifice anymore. You decide to do it. Some people just throw the responsibility to others when their choice turned bad. There is subtle difference I cant explain well.
I married when I was 29, H too.
K
You can sacrifice things for the one you love, only if it is a concious choice you can live by and you do it on your own, no manipulation, ultimatums, fear involved.
Then, it becomes no sacrifice anymore. You decide to do it.
This is how I look at it, so I wouldn't consider it a sacrifice. It just means maybe you decided you have a new/different dream. Although for me the dream never really changed. I knew since 5th grade I wanted to be a teacher, but I knew from BIRTH that I wanted to be a wife and a mom. Teaching would just be my way of making money to allow me to support myself financially, but it wouldn't define me.
Heading to my IC....can't wait to start!
I'm excited for you! Looking forward to hearing what direction they are taking with you.
Ok....you went to IC and then went MIA girlfriend! Update? How'd it go?