Ok I am trying to walk forward and leave The Land of Insanity Behind me.
You know, insanity, doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different outcome?
The roles have written themselves by now.
1)After distancing himself, Dan will realize how much he misses Bobbi and their life together. He will share his depression and inner turmoil with Bobbi, vaguely/indirectly indicating his desire to reconcile.
2)BBJ will run in for the rescue, providing Dan with an A-Z checklist for how to 'make things right'.
3)Dan will instantly become paralyzed again with indecision.
4) Bobbi will push for action, time is a-wastin'!
5)Dan will freak out at the 'pressure' and back away again, only to emerge once the dust has settled (and BBJ has distanced herself again). Back to step 1.
Since the colossal meltdown that was Wednesday morning, I haven't contacted Dan for anything. I did give him the petition on Wednesday night, he is to sign the notice in front of a notary and give it back to me.
Sydney asked to call her Daddy last night and when she called she asked if he could come and watch her dance before bed. For the three WHOLE days we were 'piecing', he was here every night watching her put on a dance show before bedtime.
He didn't come, but that was ok. She danced for me anyway.
I found a counselor I want to get in with. Her practice has a handful of counselors actually. They are Christian counselors with a solution-oriented approach. She is familiar with the "Boundaries" books and even leads seminars on establishing and maintaining healthy boundaries.
I still have the desire to drive away from this town and disappear for a day or two. Need to have some mental space. I want to make sure that anything I do is not coming from a place of manipulating Dan to come back, or from a place of trying to punish him for his decision not to try again.
One of the best pieces of advice from DR was (paraphrasing here, since I don't have the book handy): That thing you're doing that isn't working - stop doing it.
A change of tactics has helped me a lot. It hasn't (yet) resulted in reconciliation, but I got access to the kids.
A recognition you need to change tactics is a good thing.
My post above leads me to the questions I have now.
Dan stated in his "dump two for the price of one" e-mail that he was NOT seeking legal counsel. His direct quote from the email:
I will not seek legal support all that is mine is yours take what you wish.
So the question is, how do I go about doing that? Should I just type up a list (I hate the word 'demands') of things I want and give it to him to sign that he agrees? I know I can do a lot of this with my attorney but the more I have ready before I meet with my attorney, the fewer billable hours I will have to pay...
Same thing goes for a visiation schedule. Should Dan and I set/agree to one on our own and then I take that setup to my attorney?
The thing is I know that when we have done some of these things in the past, part of my hope was that facing the cold facts would slap him in the face and wake him up. Now, that is not my intent. I just want to get our affairs in order so we can move forward.
For those who have been divorced, how did you divvy up the furntiure and things? A lot of it is obvious, clothing, cds, movies, etc. And I already packed up half the dishes and cooking stuff when I took Dan's things to the storage shed. Mostly it is tools and furniture at this point. Do I have to write it down and document who takes what for the attorneys or can it be an informal agreement?
Thanks for the input.
Do I have to write it down and document who takes what for the attorneys or can it be an informal agreement?
My lawyer told me that the more you can agree on splitting in an informal agreement, the better. Larger monetary items like vehicles, bank accounts, retirement, houses, mortgage, and debt should to be broken down in the dissolution of marriage judgement.
I let her have all her guns and jewelry which was probably around $20K. But I kept the house and most all possesions in it. I even still have the bicycle I got her for BD and I guess it will be a gift for a future princess of mine.
My personal opionion is to get the parenting plan written and approved first before doing any haggling about division of assets, child support and spousal support.
I think the biggest pain for me has been the parenting schedule. Last year he didn't push/ask for anything extra as he was soo involved with getting on with his girlfriend. Now to probably make himself look better in her eyes he is saying he should get all of the major holidays this year. He uses the county guidelines like a bible but only seems to understand the parts that suit him.
He left most of his things behind except for some of the things I boxed up for him when he first moved out and the clothes I hung out on the railing of the porch.
He says now that he regrets that he didn't ask for more parenting time, I guess that is what happens when you are thinking with the head without a brain.
kat
I did give him the petition on Wednesday night, he is to sign the notice in front of a notary and give it back to me.
I'll lay odds he doesn't do it. Too busy, can't find a notary, forgot....
This is man-of-inaction Dan we're talking about! Then you'll end up paying for the sheriff to do it.
As far as dividing stuff, if you've already done it, at least here, one of the ways to word things was that each of us gets what's in out possession. I don't know if that's an option for you or not. There are still some things not split, but we trust that they will be without spelling them out, and having the court involved. Dan may be a different case.
We don't have anything really written out. I proposed a monetary figure and have kept up with it. We're splitting weekends with the girls. I get them at least one night a week and once got them twice because she was swamped at work. I see them every day after school because I have the flexible schedule.
I grabbed the things I wanted when I moved out. She's since stacked things up of mine that I didn't take that she wanted me to take. That sucked, but I'm set up pretty well now at my apartment. I actually like it better than our house -- it's cleaner and not so cramped with useless junk.
A friend of mine said when he divorced his wife downloaded a divorce settlement form, they went through it together, agreed on everything, took it to a lawyer who filed it and it cost only $1,200.
In my case, the money part won't end being as easy. I gutted my IRA to finish the basement a couple of years ago after a flood. So I only have $10,000 out of what was $25,000.
She has probably about $40,000 in her retirement account. I don't really want any of it, but I want my grandmother's wedding ring back without a fuss and I don't want to give up any of an investment account I started for us in 2007 that's grown to about $3,800. I plan to use that to help pay down the $15,000 in credit card debts she ran up and I may be stuck with.
Of course, I really just want things to work about between us, but as my DB counselor said, it's going to be longer than a 3-to-6 month fix.
So, I got a surprise $400 check at work today. I still don't quite get how they do teacher paychecks in Iowa. I get my base salary from my district, but the state has 2 additional pools of money they contribute. It is supposed to all go on one check. They screwed up with our previous check, and the supplemental money was left off.
So this time, we got our regular check (direct deposit) and an extra $400 check.
Guess who cashed hers?
I figure if it was never deposited I don't have to consider it withdrawn, right? It never existed, or as those Madagascar penguins say
"You didn't see
anything...."
Long story short, shopping night!!!
I took myself out for a date this evening while Dan had the kids. Went for a run, then showered up and put on some cute going-out clothes. Dan came and got the kids and I headed out. By the time I got home (almost 11) he was asleep on the floor in the kids' room.
I got a skirt, some boots, 4 pairs of pants and 7 sweaters. Think I got enough???
When I go without kids, I try on
everything. My basic rule of thumb was if it looked fun and was something I normally wouldn't try on, I tried it on. And guess what? I bought most of it. Time to broaden my fashion horizons.
Also ordered a necklace, earrings and ring from a co-worker today, she sells Lia Sophia.
I am not normally a shopping kind of girl but this was some fun retail therapy! Now going to finish watching the Grey's Anatomy premier. Taped it b/c I can't watch it in front of my kids. Goodnight!
You are not supposed to have your mid life crisis until your daughter is 16.
Just kidding.
Think of the extra check as stimulus money for the Bobbi Jo project.
Hi BBJ
Thanks for helping out the economy with your shopping spree. I think that is great that you added a bunch of cutting edge stuff to the wardrobe. Whatever soothes you my dear.
I was just looking at your pics from last month of the fishing excursion with the munchkins. Too cute.
Hugs & prayers dear BBJ. Have a super weekend.
Ted
oh ..one other thing, do you still use your embarq.com EM address, cuz if so then you have mail.
T
Sorry T, don't use that one. Will have to have it removed.
I use my last name, plus the #4. And the place where I get my mail is pretty hot...
Yes I did get some 'cutting edge'/trendy stuff. Tired of my uniform of boxy-but-comfy sweaters and khaki pants. So I got the cute skirt and some tailored menswear-style dress pants. Plus a few of those sweaters where they have short sleeves and only a couple buttons so you have to wear a cami or tank top underneath. Fun!
Getting the kids up and dressed for McDonalds. Nathan has counseling at 10.
Bbj,
I bought a nice pair of shoes last night. High heels (John, you got me thinking about those, cant wait to try that use you mentioned-LOL) and a nike work out pants that I erally liked.
Been shopping a little bit lately. Not good for me. Means I am depressed...
Anyway, move forward and stay consistent. Good times are just around the corner...
Love
K
Running late for work like usual!
So last night my parents took the kids so Dan and I could go over details.
He called me to ask if I had eaten dinner. Then he said he was coming to pick me up and take me out to eat. So we went out for Mexican, he paid.
We came back home and filled out the October calendar. Then I had a checklist of things to go over so we could get things settled.
Things like insurance, visitation schedule, birthdays, holidays, etc. He said any time he had the kids for a holiday, I was welcome to be there. I told him his future gf/wife wouldn't appreciate that. He said he didn't give a sh!t what they would have to say. Regardless, I told him we needed to assign each holiday and then go from there. So we did.
We talked financial settlement, he wants to give me more than I was asking for. He admitted in his email last week that he tries to show love for me by providing financially when I want to be held and told/shown. (Diff love languages obviously).
So I told him I was asking for what I thought was fair and he said he still wanted to give me more but it was up to me.
Then we went over insurance, he said that I could stay on his forever if I wanted to. Again I said his future relationships and mine would not like that. He said again he didn't care. I told him to leave the kids on until adulthood, and me for 1 year because I can opt-in to my work insurance next May.
So we covered a few more things on the list and then it was all covered. He has not had the receipt of service notarized but said he would get it done for me. A few things I mentioned you could tell he hadn't thought about and he got that sick look on his face. But, not my problem.
The whole thing was calm and controlled, nobody got mad. We both were close to tears a couple times but I pushed forward down the list. I am going to type it up for him to review and then give it to my attorney so I can find out if we are good. No trial means everything will be MUCH cheaper, which is definitely a good thing.
WOW!!! I am surprised. You must be very proud of yourself of how you handled this.
Hugs
K
We came back home and filled out the October calendar. Then I had a checklist of things to go over so we could get things settled.
You went through a discussion I'm still praying I never have to. My question is, after all the DBing work, did you ever think there was a real chance you could have turned things around or was the path pretty much set in stone?
I'm looking for hope today.
We came back home and filled out the October calendar. Then I had a checklist of things to go over so we could get things settled.
You went through a discussion I'm still praying I never have to. My question is, after all the DBing work, did you ever think there was a real chance you could have turned things around or was the path pretty much set in stone?
I'm looking for hope today.
If you are curious, I have been on this site for about 20 months now...there have been many twists and turns. Several times my H has made overtures about coming home. He moved out only to want to move back in with me 4 months later, only to move out again 6 months later...just one week ago he told me he was emailing a no-contact letter to OW and scheduleing a marriage retreat for US. The next day he dumped me again...(ow too).
So in short, I never
ever allowed myself to think we were over. Even now I hold out the possibility that we could reconile after divorce.
But I am not going to stay in limbo any more, I made that choice for myself. I couldn't have made it before, we are only ready when we are ready. And after so many false starts it hurt my heart too much to stay where we were.
So I am moving forward with life and will see what happens from here. It does feel good to be 'in control' of my life, granted I believe God has a plan for me. But after so long watching, waiting, hoping, I decided it was time.
But I am not going to stay in limbo any more, I made that choice for myself. I couldn't have made it before, we are only ready when we are ready. And after so many false starts it hurt my heart too much to stay where we were.
I wish my W was showing ANY indecision. She seems so set on the path we are on -- although there's been no discussion of furthering anything along.
I'm in limbo at least until January. That's when she can go on her pre-paid legal plan offered through her work. So all the DBing I'm doing right now may be in vain. She may just be marking time.
That will hurt.
WOW!!! I am surprised. You must be very proud of yourself of how you handled this.
Hugs
K
K
I was proud of myself.
For the first time, if I am honest with myself looking back, I did not try to use our children, our love, our history, etc to convince him to change his mind. It isn't like I would say it that directly, but I might have worded questions about sharing holidays/birthdays to try and make him feel guilty for upsetting the children's lives. Make sense?
But this time I didn't do that. I did bring up other people in our lives and each time he would say he didn't care what anyone else would think, he would do what he wanted (such as having me join him and the kids for church on Christmas Eve or leaving me on his insurance indefinitely).
It felt good in a strange way. I was organized and businesslike but at the same time able to tease and joke with him. I said something about he wouldn't be a nice boyfriend (to a future gf) if he did x,y,z with me after we D'd and he said he wasn't being a nice boyfriend now.
I said in a light voice "Prob not real appropriate to be joking about your girlfriend with me yet". He said, "I meant a bad boyfriend to YOU"...
Anyway it was surreal as at dinner we even had a conversation about a Vince Vaughn movie coming up (Couples Retreat, ironically enough)and he acted like he would want to go when it comes out...
And yet here we are writing up our agreements for the divorce settlement. I am just glad that it appears it won't turn ugly. So time to get it written up and signed before it has a chance to go south.
Bbj,
I know what you are saying about not using kids etc. I remember the first time I did that last April. I sat with him and calmly said we can be friends etc etc but that I wanted out. I hope you get a clear idea of your future sooner than I did...
Clingingtohope, everybody's sitch is different and scarily the same around here. Yes there is hope. Yes things could turn around. Follow the basic rules, get yourself strong and hope for the best but be ready to have a good life anyway things go.
K
[quote=ClingingToHope
I'm in limbo at least until January. That's when she can go on her pre-paid legal plan offered through her work. So all the DBing I'm doing right now may be in vain. She may just be marking time.
That will hurt. [/quote]
The DBing you are doing right now is not in vain. It should be for the reconcilliation of your marriage AND also to help make you a better person. Don't think of it as wasted time just because it doesn't end up saving your marriage.
S4h
Such a weird life I am living...
Tonight I was with the kids at swim lessons. It was a "Dan" night but swim lessons are from 4:30-5:30 so I had the kids.
He texted me, asking if a movie the kids wanted to see was on in theaters yet. I replied it was. (Nathan told his Dad over the weekend he wanted to go see it.)
He said he would be meeting me in 20 min. I called at that point and asked where I was supposed to be meeting him? He said he would come to the house and get the kids.
Then he stuttered and stammered and said that actually he was kind of wanting me to come too, but if I had other plans, that was okay, he just kind of thought it would be good if I came...
So at 2:00 I had sent him a draft copy of the terms we agreed to for our divorce. Then 4 hours later we were sitting by each other in the movie theater with a kid on each side, sharing a big bag of popcorn (the kids each had their own 'kid bags').
Actually, I am totally ok with it. I had/have absolutely no expectations. I think it will be great for the kids if we can have some family times now and then. I believe SP referred to it as 'harmony'.
After the movie I told Dan to take the kids home as I needed to go out for a bit. So he took them home. I went to the bookstore and got a book on separation/divorce. It outlines the things we need to consider when completing a divorce agreement. Because we are emotional, it says, we should be sure that doesn't cloud our ability to ask for what we should in the settlement. (Christian guide btw so no sharks here.)
Going to review the book once the kids are in bed, Dan is upstairs reading to them now in fact. I think we covered pretty much everything but will read over the guidelines to see if we forgot anything.
Knowing that you will survive is very empowering.
I know it is very surreal at times isn't it - one day doing things together that happily married couples with families do and the next day discussing terms and conditions of the divorce. My W is moving out of the house this week while I am on a business trip. Yet on Sunday she drove me to the airport and dropped me off but not before giving me a hug, a kiss and squeezing my hand before letting go. Sometimes it just seems so bizarre.
S4H
I hadn't realized you started a new thread so I thought you had gone MIA! Sorry.
I think the way are handling this is very positive BBJ. You have your 'demands' in place, you are being fair minded with Dan. If he wants to give you more though.....for heavens sakes TAKE IT!!! There is no nobility in denying money you might need for the kids. Whatever extra he wants to give you over and above what you asked for...put it in the kids' college funds. It would be a great investment.
When Gabe left he took the clothes he owned and his personal items. That's it. I gave him a stereo and some of the movies and stuff I knew he liked but I have everything else. He moved in with OW in her fully furnished place so he didn't want anything and couldn't take it anyway. Sorry, I have no real advice there.
The other 'big ticket' items should be negotiated into the legal agreement. Houses, cars, equipment, IRA's and 401K's, etc.
Wow, BBJ, all I can think to say is "You go, Girl!!!"
Then he stuttered and stammered and said that actually he was kind of wanting me to come too, but if I had other plans, that was okay, he just kind of thought it would be good if I came...
BobbiJo,
I am rather curious to know why you joined Dan and the kids for the movie. To me it just seems like more of the same type behavior with a little divorce activity sprinkled in. As you were recounting things I thought for sure you would pass on attending the movie.
Something just does not seem right with this. On one hand I can see that you were giving thought to doing this "for the sake of the family". But I do not think that is the way that Dan was looking at it. It almost seems like he was just testing you to see how tightly wrapped around his finger he may still have you.
If you are trying to untangle and untether your life from his rotten life by means of a divorce and in doing so hopefully cause Dan to "hit bottom" more quickly, then going and doing the movie thing doesn't make much sense to me.
I do not mean to be making such a big deal about this one episode but the other part that I sense is that there seems to be continued enabling type behavior on your part. What I mean by this is that I believe (and I surely could be wrong)that Dan is nowhere near being comfy with the idea of taking his two young kids out anywhere by himself. Actually this doesn't even seem to be limited to just taking them out places. I seem to recall that he almost always has his mom and his dad play a huge part in handling stuff with the kids whenever it is "his time" with the kids. He has shown zero responsibility to do this type of activity on his own.
Dan going out to the movies with just himself and the kids is something that he needs to be faced with IMO. I do not think he stands a chance of experiencing growth in his life unless he is challenged with things which fall slightly outside of his normal comfort zone.
OK ..enough chatter from me.
I hope that you will be enormously blessed in unthinkable ways dear BBJ.
Ted
I agree with Ted. I am guilty of the same thing though. I know how you feel.
K
Tomato hit the nail on the head, I could not agree more.
In general I do agree. This particular movie (Cloudy w/Chance of Meatballs) is one that I already had the book to and had read to my kids. Nathan and Sydney had asked me if we could go to it as soon as they saw the ads a month ago. I told them I would go with them. So I did.
Tonight is my night with the kids. We are making spaghetti and having 'game night'. It should be a lot of fun. And I am not inviting Dan to join us.
Hey BBJ, I also agree with the other folks regarding the enabling behaviour. Yes, it is very difficult to refuse invitations. I am not sure any of our actions will matter in the long run. I wonder however what is going on in your little ones' heads with all this together time. I have to admit that when I read your family activities and that of K, I get a little uneasy feeling. Your (you and K's) words say one thing but your actions say something else. I am not sure your respective stbx's feel the urgency of the situation. I was joking with K, saying that she saw her STBX more than some married couples this past weekend.
But anyway, I am no different than anyone else here. I would probably have accepted the invitations as well. That is no longer true however....I guess it takes time....but it also takes a little effort. The children's "alibi" is also understandable but can be debated. What I am saying is that in order to properly detach (if that is really your goal) you have to make an effort. I am sure if Dan calls tonight and says he is hungry, you will make an extra plate of spaghetti...or in K's case lamb.....is there anything wrong with this behaviour? I don't know.... the signals you are sending your stbxs is that you are not as "serious" as you let on about divorce.
Just my opinion....I could be out in left field.....what I do know is that GAL is as important now as it was when the first bomb landed several years ago.
Then he stuttered and stammered and said that actually he was kind of wanting me to come too, but if I had other plans, that was okay, he just kind of thought it would be good if I came...
BobbiJo,
I am rather curious to know why you joined Dan and the kids for the movie. To me it just seems like more of the same type behavior with a little divorce activity sprinkled in. As you were recounting things I thought for sure you would pass on attending the movie.
Something just does not seem right with this. On one hand I can see that you were giving thought to doing this "for the sake of the family". But I do not think that is the way that Dan was looking at it. It almost seems like he was just testing you to see how tightly wrapped around his finger he may still have you.
If you are trying to untangle and untether your life from his rotten life by means of a divorce and in doing so hopefully cause Dan to "hit bottom" more quickly, then going and doing the movie thing doesn't make much sense to me.
I do not mean to be making such a big deal about this one episode but the other part that I sense is that there seems to be continued enabling type behavior on your part. What I mean by this is that I believe (and I surely could be wrong)that Dan is nowhere near being comfy with the idea of taking his two young kids out anywhere by himself. Actually this doesn't even seem to be limited to just taking them out places. I seem to recall that he almost always has his mom and his dad play a huge part in handling stuff with the kids whenever it is "his time" with the kids. He has shown zero responsibility to do this type of activity on his own.
Dan going out to the movies with just himself and the kids is something that he needs to be faced with IMO. I do not think he stands a chance of experiencing growth in his life unless he is challenged with things which fall slightly outside of his normal comfort zone.
OK ..enough chatter from me.
I hope that you will be enormously blessed in unthinkable ways dear BBJ.
Ted
I agree 100%...it is more of the same. Things will continue to be as they are until Dan is told that this type activity will no longer take place..
Things will continue to be as they are until Dan is told that this type activity will no longer take place..
Exactly.
Family time is for families. Dan (and you BBJ) has decided
NOT to be a family any longer. Therefore, family activities are out. Sorry, that's D. It sucks, but that is how it is. Staying this involved with each other will only further confuse the kids in the long run.
Be cordial with each other, by all means. Don't try to be
overly friendly.
You know, I have had to set those limits w/ my XH. We have been D for almost 10 years, and on occasion, he still wants to resort to the "family" thing. He attempts to drag D13 in the middle of it. Leaves me to be the bad guy and explain that although we both love her, and we are both her family, we are not family to each other anymore.
Thankfully, she gets it more than he does.
I'm still waiting on my first invite from Kim and her parents
Not...
Tomato nailed it.
Pretty hard to detach when there is still family time going on. And the kids will get mixed signals.
My kids saw the 3D version of Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs twice - first time with me and the second time with their mom. I think that Steve is now the leading candidate for best actor Oscar. The scene of him fighting off the gummy bears was the best.
I hear you guys. Maybe I should think about it some more...
The place I am coming from has been, there are two approaches here. If I am still trying to make him 'come to his senses', then I need to enforce all my boundaries/consequences, draw the lines, tough love, etc etc.
I guess you would call that db'ing?
On the other hand, I am tired of always strategizing to figure out what I can do to 'bring him back'. So I figured, if we are getting a divorce, so be it. That is why I was so calm and steady when writing up our 'terms' when we met the other night. Because I am ready to move forward, finally.
But if we are in fact getting a divorce, I guess I was thinking that if we can have a 'friend-y' relationship when it comes to the kids, that is all the better for them. I wasn't thinking about it in terms of sending them confusing messages.
I just do not want to be those former couples I see as a teacher. The ones who can't come to conferences at the same time b/c they can't be in the same room with each other. The ones who are so concerned about being 'fair' that they literally have their child ping-pong between houses every other night. And yes, I have had kids who actually do that.
So maybe I am off on a ramble here. I am just done withoverthinking things. The past several days I have decided to do what I want to do, the way I want to do it. I wanted to write up our settlement and get it taken care of, so I did. I wanted to go to the movies, so I did.
I wanted to write up our settlement and get it taken care of, so I did. I wanted to go to the movies, so I did.
All good.
I don't think the message to the kids would be quite as confusing if they weren't so little. Spending all that time together is going to keep them on edge expecting you to get back to 'family life' as they knew it.
There doesn't need to be animosity between you and Dan, just be careful with how much the kids see you together. Making sure that they see you interact in a positive way when they are present is good, doing activities together is not. Too much hope involved in that for them.
(((((BobbiJo)))))
It's tricky, isn't it! I think with your kids so young it would be best to not have activities with all of you together, for the time being, at least. You can absolutely be cordial when you do see each other, and participate together in things like parent conferences when the kids are not there. I Just think the mixed messages might be too much for them. At the least, I would have sat you and Dan on the ends, and the kids in between. At least that would give the visual of mom and dad apart, not mom and dad together.
Ok so this may be random, but in reading the separation/divorce guidebook I got last night, I found a passage that 'spoke' to me:
"Your efforts do not guarantee the restoration of your marriage. Your spouse has the freedom to turn away from all your overtures. If, after you make every effort at reconciliation, your spouse refuses to be reconciled, where does that leave you? It leaves you with your hand in God's hand. That is not a bad position. You will be free from the guilt of past failures, because you will have confessed your wrong to God and to your spouse. You will have the satisfaction of having sought reconcilation. You will appreciate your own abilities and admit your weaknesses. You will be on a program of personal growth and ministry that will lead to fulfillment. God will not hold you responsible for the decision of your spouse. You are only responsible for your own attiudes and behavior."
So, another way of saying what Michelle says in the DB books. You may not 'win your spouse back', but you will have your own self-respect back because you know you did your best.
Pretty uneventful night, in a good way. Picked up the kids from daycare when I was done at school. Took them to Pizza Hut for buffet. Then, Tuesday night is Game Night! We were going to do spaghetti at home but I was beat so we went for the buffet and then home for games.
Dan texted while we were eating dinner to see "what's up tonight?"
I waited till we got home 30 min later and texted that we were about to start playing games as Tues in our (me and kids) game night.
He sent 2 replies "oh, ok" and "Just checking"
I did not invite him to join us and he did not ask. So we had a great time, first Disney Trivia for Sydney and then Stratego for Nathan.
After that, medicine for Nathan, books for both, and bed.
Dan called somewhere during Stratego to tell me to keep an eye on the kids. Apparently he thinks he has the flu, or a flu/virus anyway. Fever, headache, body aches, vomiting and diarrhea. Maybe shouldn't have shared that popcorn last night...
Btw he has not returned the receipt of service yet, I gave it to him last Wednesday.
I wrote up a draft of the terms we discussed on Sunday night. I sent it to Dan to make sure he agreed and I wrote it up accurately. I sent it to him yesterday and got no reply so I went ahead and emailed it to my attorney today so he can review it.
Ah Stratego - watch out for the bombs!
"Long Gone" Lady Antebellum
It’s so like you just to show up at my door
And act like nothin’s happenedYou think I’ll sweep my heart up off the floor
And give it to you
Like so many times before
You’re talking to a stranger
I’m not that girl anymoreChorus
That girl is long gone
Boy you missed the boat it just sailed away
Long gone
She’s not drowning in her yesterdays
Betcha never thought I’d be that strong Well this girl is long gone
Don’t waste your breath with baby baby please
Cuz I am so not listeningDon’t bother getting down upon your knees and try to beg me
I’m tired of how you twist the truth
You’re not talking to the same girl
Who used to forgive youRepeat Chorus
Gone like the wind under Superman’s cape
Like a thief in the night I made the great escape
I’m not the kind of girl that keeps making the same mistakes
Chorus
That girl is long gone
Boy you missed the boat it just sailed away
Long gone
I’m not drowning in my yesterdays
Betcha never thought I’d be that strong, betcha didn’t
Yeah well baby I proved you wrong
This girl is long gone, long gone
This girl is long gone, long gone
This girl is long gone
This girl is gone
Btw he has not returned the receipt of service yet, I gave it to him last Wednesday.
so..how many days does he have before he has to sign it...In Tennessee when the papers are served then they sign for receipt of papers...that's why you have them served..so they have to sign and the ball gets rolling...
Have the L call him...
Mike, I love that song!!! Will have to download it. Maybe it could be his ringtone??
Re. signing the receipt of service form...I called my lawyer yesterday. His assistant said there was no set time period for him to return it, but if I got tired of waiting I could have the sheriff serve him another set and hopefully he'd sign those immediately. I am going to avoid that though b/c right now the agreement we have written up gives me what I want so I don't want 'angry Dan' to emerge until it is all signed, sealed, delivered.
good morning BBJ
have an awesome day. you deserve it sis.
peace and many prayers for you.
T
Maybe it could be his ringtone??
That should be your anthem...not his ringtone..
the time for caring about him has passed..
this should be all about you..
Dan's ringtone should be a mooing cow.
I had Gabe's ringtone as the Scarecrow's song from Wizard of Oz......If I only had a brain........:)
My ringtone for stbx is Apologize from Chris Brown I think it is. Before that, it was a funny clip that stated I was receiving an incoming call from a loser...
Maybe it could be his ringtone??
That should be your anthem...not his ringtone..
the time for caring about him has passed..
this should be all about you..
Thanks Mike. I was just kiddin about the ringtone. I do like those lyrics for sure...for me.
Getting mildly frustrated...not like I am in a hurry so I can go marry somebody else...but still...
The guy says he wants us to get back together. Then he dumps me in an email, saying he will give me whatever I ask for. That he cannot find the 'spark' for me, so he will prove himself as a father to our kids, etc etc.
He said in that email to me and to ow, that he was moving forward with his life after the hell of the past 2-3 years of indecision, and he "encouraged (us) to do the same". Yep, he said that.
So, if that is the case, why hasn't he notarized the receipt of service? Why has he not commented on the draft I sent him Monday of our terms? Sigh.....
I know you predicted this Jeff, calling him a 'man of inaction'. Seriously, though. With such a momentous email coming from him--from his pov, you would have had to read the whole email, it was like he was finally putting down the burden of living all the lies and trying to be with both of us, etc etc, finally moving forward with his life instead of leading anybody on...
Then why not get the proverbial show on the road?
And even if I am not trying to 'DB' him, I refuse to be the nagging moquito in his ear...
"When are you going to sign the receipt?"
"Did you look over the terms I wrote up?"
So, short of having him served--I still don't want to play that card since I want him to sign off on the settlement we came up with before the anger strikes again--any ideas??
Hey BBJ, isn't it ironic that both you and K are waiting for your husbands to act in order to move on. You both have been waiting so long and now your husbands are still making you wait....
I have always said that the divorce (for me) is just a piece of paper. You need to move on in your minds. If I did not go through this myself I would be incredulous that two women like you and K are still stuck some how. It is difficult...I know. As I told K today, I wonder what I would do if XW came back and pulled the right strings. After a while regardless of your religious beliefs, it does not make sense anymore.
So my suggestion to you both is to try to rebuild and try to turn the page. Talk to yourself like I do (and did) and maybe you may start believing what everybody knows, you guys deserve so much more.
As far as signing the receipt is concerned, he sent you an email..."reply" to it with the request above (ie. sign the receipt please). After all he put you through, you should not only put a mosquito in his ear but you should swat it with a heavy instrument.
Maybe he was lying in the email,...to both of you.
(((((BobbiJo)))))
Grrrrrr......
I don't have any brilliant thoughts. It would be easy to say "have him served", but if ugly Dan shows up the rest of the process might be a lot messier.
Maybe you can drop a hint somehow... not sure how though. Have I ever mentioned that I don't like Dan?
I self served my wife. I told her she had 10 days to sign acknowlegement or my attorney would have the Sheriff serve her at her work. She used almost all the 10 days.
I like Kerrys approach. Call him tomorrow (today) and tell him if he doesn't have the documents notarized by Friday, you will have no choice but to have him served by the county sheriff. He's going to drag his feet to suit his needs not yours.
S4h
BBJ..
have his ass served...
as long as you allow Dan to control things he will..
and FWIW...if the shoe were on the other foot DAN would have had you served...for sure..
you ladies are way too nice..
you tell Dan it's on, it's on like donkey kong..
You know they say "nice guys finish last"....well nice girls finish last because we allow ourselves to be walked on while believing we are being 'kind and keeping the peace'. Stop being nice BBJ! Where has it gotten you?
Sorry, that was harsh, but seriously........DAN IS A CONTROLLING, MANIPULATIVE, A$$!!!!!!!
Here's the deal BBJ...
I don't beleive that Dan will go through this process without legal representation..if he does then he is stupid..and dan is a very smart manipulative guy..he's proven that time and time again..
I also don't beleive dan will just give you what you want..it matters not what you guys write down on paper now..until he signs an official paper/document...he can promise you the moon..
I call bullchitt on Dan...
In the words of "The Rock"
"Can you smell it??" "Can you smell what Dan is cookin?"
beleive half of what you see and nothing that he says..
Maybe he was lying in the email,...to both of you.
Lying about which part? The part where he was moving on with life? The part where he wasn't getting legal rep? The part where all he has is mine take what I want? Or all of the above? Not sure what you meant...
Here's the deal BBJ...
I don't beleive that Dan will go through this process without legal representation..if he does then he is stupid..and dan is a very smart manipulative guy..he's proven that time and time again..
I also don't beleive dan will just give you what you want..it matters not what you guys write down on paper now..until he signs an official paper/document...he can promise you the moon..
I call bullchitt on Dan...
In the words of "The Rock"
"Can you smell it??" "Can you smell what Dan is cookin?"
beleive half of what you see and nothing that he says..
So do you think he is stalling while he 'lawyers up'?? I was just trying to get this done now while he agrees to the things we talked about. Looks like I will have to force the issue.
Maybe lying is the wrong word. Maybe I mean posturing. Pretending. Pretending to be magnanimous. Pretending to give you both up, waiting to see who comes back to fight for him. And hoping to keep the status quo forever. But not meaning to move on in any direction.
I think Dan is a liar and a manipulator. I do not beleive anyhting that he says to you. I think he will continue on as he has been.
Nobody with any common sense at all would go through a divorce with no lawyer..especially a businessman...a cattle farmer...yeah right...
so do you really think that if you said you wanted the farm that he would just sign it over??
I beleive in a fair and eqitable settlement for both parties..but for him to say..I'm gonna do this with no representation..well..i don't believe him..
Mike
You are right. He is a very, very smart man. Even if he makes stupid stupid choices.
No I don't think for a second he would give me the farm, but
a)The farm doesn't belong to him, it belongs to his parents, so he couldn't anyway
MORE IMPORTANTLY
b)This smart, manipulative man has known me since I was around 12 and been with me since I was 16. More than half my life at this point. He KNOWS me. You guys have known me for almost 2 years and already I am sure you know I wouldn't ask for the farm. I would ask for what is fair and right in my eyes. I am not going to take his expensive tools, farm equipment, etc. because I would have no clue what to do with them. And I am not the 'spiteful, take it to piss him off' type, either. If you guys know that, then you know HE does too.
I just want
*My time with my kids
*My house
*Primary physical custody which is a given with his work schedule
*The bulk of the household furniture
*My vehicle
*Monthly support equal to what I get now (although he is offering $1000 more a month than I get now and I agreed)
*A nice pile of cash up-front to offset the cattle stuff and his 401K. He can sell whatever he wants or take out a loan, I don't care which. I don't want the stuff, I want the financial security.
Maybe lying is the wrong word. Maybe I mean posturing. Pretending. Pretending to be magnanimous. Pretending to give you both up, waiting to see who comes back to fight for him. And hoping to keep the status quo forever. But not meaning to move on in any direction.
Well then he thinks he is talking to Old BBJ. This BBJ has not said a word about fighting for him in the 8 days since he sent the email. We met once and I was the one leading the conversation and writing up how we are dividing everything, and I also served him the same day I got the email. No fighting, begging, pleading. Done with that.
He 'knows' you, right? No....he knows the old you BBJ. He knows the girl, not the strong, independent, self-sufficient woman. Too bad for him, because I think she's pretty fantastic!
He probably does think he's talking to 'Old BBJ' because he hasn't seen enough of the new BBJ yet. He'll realize at some point that you are not buying his line of BS any longer then you better watch out. I sense that is when 'Mean Dan' will show up again.
Get the sheriff to serve him. Do it now.
I think Dan is a liar and a manipulator. I do not beleive anyhting that he says to you. I think he will continue on as he has been.
Nobody with any common sense at all would go through a divorce with no lawyer..especially a businessman...a cattle farmer...yeah right...
so do you really think that if you said you wanted the farm that he would just sign it over??
I beleive in a fair and eqitable settlement for both parties..but for him to say..I'm gonna do this with no representation..well..i don't believe him..
My XH has no common sense. He didn't have a lawyer representing him, he just used the free divorce clinics the county offers.
Like BBJ, I think he "knew" that I wouldn't get outlandish and things are pretty cut-and-dried in California if your marriage lasted less than 10 years, which ours did. However, my attorney did write in some language that he didn't catch that cost him about $2k, property tax money we had been disagreeing over for months. I just shut up and had it inserted and then he had to pay up. She also made sure the marital settlement agreement language favored me in little ways.
We were able to divorce with very little hostility and legal fees. It helped that I made him pay for all legal costs since it was his idea, it kept his antics to a minimum.
Good luck BBJ. Don't go out of your way to make waves, just make sure your butt is covered.
Hey lil sis,
seems we are both in the same state. Or very similar at least. There is no such thing as serving, self serving, mediation, etc here. You get divorced when the courts have time and usually there are so many cases before you, the standard time frame these days, for the preliminary hearing, when BOTH partners agree, is a year...
I liked what Cindy said :"Don't go out of your way to make waves"... I need to remember that as well.
K
K,
I know we are in similar states in that we both have H's dragging their feet on divorce. The difference is, I still don't want to get divorced.
And even though they are just words, if I am being honest I wish Dan was telling me that he was looking for a way to convince me not to D like your husband is telling you...
Just a 'down' morning. It is funny I have up days and then it seems to hit me again that this is real and we are not getting back together...
Bbj,
do you think it is easy for me to give up after 2 years of trying so hard to fix this? Of course like you, I have sad moments and days and up days an dthe down again and...and...
I wish too sometimes that my stxH would man up and we could create a loving relationship again. I think our difference is that I am not so sensitive to his words anymore. Although as I told John, I did miss a beat yesterday when I read his message about trying to convince me... I just chose to ignore it since there were no matching actions to support it.
Stay STRONG. At this point, we really have no other choice if we want some good to come out of this...
love
K
"The difference is, I still don't want to get divorced"
I am not sure that there is that much of a difference......
Sometimes I wonder....we have two nice ladies who have husbands which have been less than honest and quite frankly disrespeceted them....over and over. I believe both would want another shot and are hanging on to that hope. On the other hand, there are guys on here who have been "normal" husbands and their WAWs have decided to walk for no apparent reason. Where is the justice? All I can say is regardless of what happens to all of us going forward, there are good folks out there. It's just a question of opening yourself up enough to see it and perhaps experience it.
Thanks for the feedback, guys. This is why I think I need therapy. I have an incredibly hard time answering the question, "What do I want?" I apologize ahead of time for a longish look at my feelings...
Actually I can answer the question half the time but the problem is, the answer might change day to day.
Originally, my answer was "I want my husband back, regardless of anything else, we can handle that later, I just want him back".
Over time it became, "I want my husband back and my family healed, but only if it is a true recommitment, with genuine change and dedication by all of us to growing strong together and making our marriage and family the best we can make it."
That changed after he came back last fall and I realized that living with a husband who was only going through the motions was actually more painful than living without him. I didn't believe it until I lived it.
Once he told me last week that he could not be (would not be? it doesn't really matter now) the husband I needed, it changed again.
The answer was now "I want to have as amicable a divorce as possible" (realizing any dissolving of a marriage is no picnic), and "give our kids the most peaceful, loving family experience we can". Think Bruce Willis and Demi Moore, they each have remarried but they still do things together with the kids and have for years.
So Monday we went to the movies with the kids even after I had just emailed him the terms of our settlement. And had a great time. Last night I had the kids in the city for allergy shots and he called and invited us to dinner (it was his night with the kids anyway after allergy shots). Dumba$$ me went. And we again had a nice time, joking and laughing with the kids. Then I went out and he took the kids for the rest of the night.
Once I got home last night after kids were in bed, I asked if he had gotten the form signed. He said no but he would do it today. And that he would return the draft of the settlement to me, he agreed with it.
Then this morning he texted me about an inside joke we have re. our trip to Mexico.
And yet, I am not 'happy', even though we are doing the things I said I wanted. I think that if I did not have any desire to have him back in my life as my husband, then this would be great. We could spend time together with the kids and hang out and have fun and there would be no problem.
But because I still do want that committed marriage thing, I am torn. Don't get me wrong I can't have him as my husband, not now. He hasn't made the genuine changes he would need to make, not by a long shot. But I think internal desires color things. Kind of like two long-time friends where one secretly wants romance with the other. The more time they spend together, the one who wants more starts reading into things and ultimately gets hurt when the other says, "Woah, we are just hanging out having fun here! I don't want any more than that from you." In this case, Dan made it clear he doesn't want a future with me.
Ok so I know I am rambling...I need to grow into my life without Dan. I need to be honest enough with myself to admit that I am not really 'detached' enough to spend this much time with Dan. Maybe down the road after the d goes through, the dust has settled, and I know I am strong enough.
So how do I handle that now? I don't want to be the superbitch (soemone on here has the tagline "your mood swings are giving me whiplash") who does an about face with no explanation and suddenly ignores all of his calls and turns down every invite with no explanation. After all I am the one who first thought it would be great for us to do things together so the kids know their whole world isn't changing and they still have a famiy, just a different kind of family.
OK I will stop now before you are all dizzy...
I'm not dizzy yet..
I have an incredibily hard time trying to figure out how you ladies could have any love left for your husbands after all they have done...and have a harder time still...trying to figure out how you all could go on as a family after all this has happened..
I'm sorry...but I don't get that.
I would like to think that everything you are feeling is absolutely normal because that is exactly how I have felt the past 18 months with my W. What you typed is almost verbatim to how I have felt and the process I have gone through. I believe it is similiar because the common variable is that we both simply wanted our marriages and the life that we had chosen to survive. It's hard to let that go, no matter how much of a dumba** our spouse is being.
S4H
I am right with you Mike. I could never regain the love and trust after someone has done what Kalni and Bobbi Jo's husbands have done. And I apply the same to my own X. But in her case, I would be reminded of her betrayal every time we would make love because I would have to wear protection so as to not get her STD.
But I can understand how Bobbi Jo and Kalni dont have the same perspective as you have right now. Heck, you got a great lady and are living life to the best with minimal bat chit crazy being injected. Just be ready for the eventual loss that the Tide will have this year to either Tennessee, LSU and/or Mississippi.
BBJ,
This is what I told my H when he was spending 16 hours a day at our house and then leaving at night and attending functions as a family. I told him it made it more difficult for "right now" for me to spend that sort of time around him. It still caused a lot of confusion and that my Pschy and heart wasn't healed yet and it would take time and in time maybe we could do stuff together. But I was honest and shared with him that it hurt to not be able to touch him when we were spending "family" time together, not be able to "share" with him like I so needed..... I was honest with about why it had to stop and he understood.. I wasn't emotionally ready to do that. Plus it confused the kids and made them have hope that we were "working" it out and such so for that reason and my mental health I had to stop it. Just explain it to him. It will confuse your kids at this point to continue on this way.
I apologize ahead of time for a longish look at my feelings...
NEVER, EVER APOLOGIZE FOR EPRESSING YOUR FEELINGS!
You know we understand them, have been there, are there, feel your hurt and confusion, and sympathize.
I need to be honest enough with myself to admit that I am not really 'detached' enough to spend this much time with Dan.
Bingo. You are a smart cookie and already have identified one of the sources of your mixed feelings.
Therapy? Yes. Do it. It will be good for you to get that outside opinion and assistance. It will help you grow your new BBJ into a more independent thinker. Stopping your thoughts when planning things from being about 'us' to being about 'me' is really hard.
I agree with Sandy about the kids being confused by the situation. If they were older, it wouldn't be such an issue. They are just too young to separate a friendship between their parents from the M relationship they have always seen. Do them and yourself a huge favor and stop the family outings with Dan for at least a few months.
Of course, school events, meetings, sports events, etc. you should both be present, just not for the extras. Dinner out, movies, trips into the city, etc.....no.
Find a good Christian counselor and go BBJ. You will sort out your feelings a lot faster and better that way. It only took me 1.5 years to admit that and break down and pay the darned cash for the help I needed.
Just be ready for the eventual loss that the Tide will have this year to either Tennessee, LSU and/or Mississippi.
OMG..you had me right up until this last sentence...Tennessee sucks..they have no chance of beating Bama...I'd be more afraid of LSU and Mississippi...of course the War eagles come rollin into Knoxville this week and will be 5-0 when they leave..
Just be ready for the eventual loss that the Tide will have this year to either Tennessee, LSU and/or Mississippi.
OMG..you had me right up until this last sentence...Tennessee sucks..they have no chance of beating Bama...I'd be more afraid of LSU and Mississippi...of course the War eagles come rollin into Knoxville this week and will be 5-0 when they leave..
Go LSU!!!
(sorry for t/j-ing BBJ
My take, BBJ, on the "friendly divorce" thing like Demi and Bruce is that you just aren't there yet. Dan still needs to get help with his depression/sex addiction/misogynist tendencies and he has the perfect life now.
He has his kids, his farm, his own place, freedom to get his "needs" met anywhere he wants and hey, if he wants a family/BBjo fix, she is right there. You are doing all the work fairly dividing things up. Organizing the kids around his time.... I can't believe you joined him for dinner last night. ARGH. This needs to be YOUR choice again. YOUR rules. He absolutely believes he has you wrapped around his little finger because he DOES. He will never change until it hurts more to stay the same than to change..........
Drop the rope girl... just for a while... he is NOT your friend sweetie. Not yet.
Last night, kids and I did a little more Halloween decorating, then we ordered dinner out and brought it home. Enjoyed our Family Movie Night Friday (a tradition for us for the past few months now). Nathan got to watch the season premier of his Star Wars: Clone Wars series, then Sydney got an I-Carly episode. We didn't do a 'real' movie this time.
We did all cuddle up in blankets on the living room floor though.
Got up this morning, made french toast for the kids. Dan texted at 8:30 for me to call him. Apparently our home phone is out...my mom said the same thing yesterday but I hadn't called the phone company yet.
Anyway he asked me what the plan was for the day...ummm it's your day so that would be up to you...
I didn't say that, just said I was leaving at 9:45 for my meeting. I took a class to become a High School Speech Association judge. Now I can judge individual and group speech events throughout the state. Fun!
My high school speech coach was there along with a former classmate who now also coaches. I am looking forward to working my first event.
So I went to class, got back and he and the kids are gone. I have a birthday party in an hour. Then some cleaning/organizing. I am toying with the idea of booking a hotel for myself tonight. It is Dan's day today, and tomorrow, so I might tell him to keep them overnight...
OK got to go get something done before the party.
Bbj,
I tried the friendly approach, the year before last while at the same time I was telling him I was ready to divorce (you were there, remember?)... It may had the effect I wanted to create, doubts, second thoughts etc, but that was all it got me. I honestly believe if I had then at some point given him some tough love, things would have been different now...
Yes me and Bbj are stupid to be fighting for so long for 2 men that obviously dont deserve us. But we chose and loved these men and sometimes things are complicated in our heads and hearts. And I think we both have reached a point where our heads are being heard by our hearts. We realise they are not good for us and we are slowly taking the next step.
Despite of what I have said here many times before, I dont regret holding on to this relationship. Maybe I will, in ten years from now, but how can you regret being honest and true to your feelings?
Bbj, I know you dont want to divorce. But what else can you do?
K
We cross posted... Yeah, stay our of reach right now. Keeps you leveled (does that exist?) and probably will make him worried...
K
Hey, BobbiJo.
I read a book titled "Getting Past Your Breakup" by Susan J Elliott that helped me and maybe might help you. Among other things, it talks about the importance of "no contact". Although that is not totally feasible if you have small children of course, it is full and really good insight and advice.
Take care!!
(((((hugs)))))
Thank you silent chr...she also has a website
http://gettingpastyourpast.wordpress.com/2007/06/26/the-post-breakup-no-no-list/I think quite a few of us would benefit from this since we are unfortunatelly past the DB stage.
The No-Contact Rule
The most important no-no is No Contact. In this technological age, it is easy to reach out and touch someone. But that does not mean that you should or that it’s a good thing because when you are trying to get over a breakup, it’s not.
Don’t mistake grief for love. It’s normal and natural to grieve even if the relationship was the worst relationship in the world. Don’t let your grief cause you to second guess your feelings.
Even if you do still love him or her, you don’t have to act on it. You don’t have to make contact or find ways to see the other person. Grief is a long, hard process and often contact will seem like it temporarily alleviates the pain. But it does not really alleviate it; it just postpones the inevitable.
I will check out that website...thanks
I had a great time at the birthday party. It was for a good cousin/friend of mine's kids. So several of my girl cousins were there. Since I 'outed' my separation at 4th of July, it was nice not to have to have a story anymore. They asked where the kids were and I told them it was Dan's day. One of my male cousins just caught his wife with her A partner a couple months ago and now he is divorcing her, so he understood the whole 'sharing the kids' thing.
None of my other cousins are divorced, but one was separated 4 months b/c she was having an A, then she saw the light and they got back together (also her H found out he had cancer which prompted her to come home).
Anyway it was nice talking to all of them and they came to the consensus that it was prob harder on me than the kids actually, us spending so much time together. I agreed...
So when I got home I texted Dan and asked if he would keep the kids overnight, he could stay at my house, and I would see them all at church the next day.
He replied "Yeah okay where are you headed?"
then
"Not being nosy, just curious"
So I replied that I didn't know where I was going, I just needed to clear my head. That prompted a couple of texts from him asking if I was okay and saying he was there if I wanted to talk.... I didn't reply to those.
So he and the kids got to the house as I was finishing up my suitcase. I told him I changed the sheets on my bed for him and he commented that the 'whole house is spotless', which is high praise considering he used to be bugged when it was a mess.
Anyway I went out and booked a night
Sorry kids came home and interrupted me...
I went to Omaha and booked a night in a nice hotel, king sized bed, awesome mattress and down comforter. Heaven!!!
Dan texted asking where some of Nathan's meds were and then again telling me they were watching a movie and named the movie. I replied to tell him where the meds were but didn't reply to the other one.
I brought along a notebook, and got comfy in the bed. It had 6 or 7 pillows, awesome!
So then I wrote out all of my feelings about trying to be friends with Dan, which led me to the conclusion that I know how to be 'friends' with Dan. What I don't know how to do is to be 'JUST friends' with Dan. Of course it took me 15 pages of writing to get to that point...
I vented about the shitty things he has done to me, I told him that if he didn't want to be with me, then I didn't want him to be with me. But that it sucked for his reason to be that the 'spark' wasn't there and he couldn't find it. Because when you pour yourself into another woman, plus a job, plus cows, plus the kids, and don't give any of yourself to me, it is ridiculous to think the spark would still be there.
The grass is GREENER if you water it! If you don't, it dies...So then I realized that if his 'spark' had faded b/c he wasn't pouring himself into me, then my spark was still strong b/c I was still giving him all of me. All except my body, which everybody here knows I would have given if he had asked.
So I have to give myself to other things besides Dan and my kids. And eventually, that means another man. Because I know we can hug our kids, but everyone knows that isn't the same as the touch of a lover, a true partner. I desire that romantic, intimate relationship. Right now, I don't have one, so I still look for, hope for, wish for that with Dan. But one day when I DO have that somewhere else, it will be easier for me to be 'just friends' with Dan. Because I won't be looking for him to be anything else...
BTW I did not share any of that with Dan, I wrote it all out for me, to get it out of my head.
Dan asked me after church if everything was ok, I told him it would be, I just had some 'snakes in my brain' (thanks for that one, Coach!) that I needed to work out. I headed out to run errands and when I got back, he and the kids were leaving our house. Dan rolled the window down to tell me where they were going. I just said have fun. Then he asked me if I was ever going to talk to him about the snakes, if I was going to share with him. At first I didn't know what he meant, then I made the connection.
I told him sometime we would have to talk about it but I didn't know when. And I drove on by.
Fantastic BBJ! You are doing all the right things as far as I'm concerned. Brilliant!
I know you will find that love someday and probably sooner than you think. Until then, fill your own love tanks by doing wonderful things like you did Saturday night for yourself.
So this evening I went for a run. 3.6 miles. Wow I need to keep working if I will be running 5 miles in 2 weeks for the Marathon Relay!
Once Dan came back with the kids I tried to disappear. I took a 20 minute shower and then he had the kids in their bedroom. I got in my rocker recliner with some wine and started watching my recorded "Desperate Housewives". I think I drank about half the bottle...
He came out and said Sydney was still awake but he needed to leave b/c he had to be to work early tomorrow. So I said bye. And he left. Then 15 minutes later Sydney came out. So I told her to lay on the couch and she did. I finished my Housewives and then I put her in my bed. She is so good!
I need to tell him that I can't hang out with him anymore...not that I did today but in general
Fantastic BBJ! You are doing all the right things as far as I'm concerned. Brilliant!
I know you will find that love someday and probably sooner than you think. Until then, fill your own love tanks by doing wonderful things like you did Saturday night for yourself.
We cross-posted Mish! Thanks for the positive feedback. I just needed some time for myself so I took it. And I am glad I did.
Hey Bobbi, I really like the approach you are taking now, its like you are drawing proper boundaries and not being yanked around by him.. and what does he do?? He asks where you are going and starts texting you about movies and stuff. God, its true, as soon as you start to switch off from them and REALLY let go, it drives them nuts.
And I must be crazy too, because despite that letter, I still dont think Dan is done with you. I just think he hates himself and feels disgusting and dead inside for the things he has been doing that he alluded to in the letter (porn etc, the twisted dark path or whatever he called it).. and that means he probs cant handle being with ANYONE right now. Not that that helps you of course!
Keep on keepin on bobbi, rooting for you,
Love Al xxx
Why do you need to tell Dan that you can't hang out with him? Actions, not words BBJ, ACTIONS. Just don't. Turn down invitations, make yourself scarce when he's around.
I'm curious though....why is it necessary for Dan to come into your home when he brings the kids home? Why should he have the priviledge of putting them to bed? Yes, the kids want it, but things have to change and that would include his access to the family home.
ps.. I agree with Mish, I was kind of surprised he was spending time in the home, not just dropping and collecting them. I was also surprised you asked him to take them over night Saturday on "his" weekend.. I would've thought his weekend included an overnight anyway, without you having to ask? Thats how we do it in the UK anyway.
His weekend would include overnight, if he had his house ready. But he doesn't yet and still lives with his parents and for whatever reason he says he cannot have them overnight at his parents.
So on the nights he has the kids, his responsibilities include bringing them home and putting them to bed. I don't think I should have to come home early on 'his' nights to make sure they are ready for bed...that will change once he has his own home and it won't be an issue.
hi sis
you sound well.
keep moving forward. The Lord walks with you.
peace.
Ted
So on the nights he has the kids, his responsibilities include bringing them home and putting them to bed.
Ahh...forgot about the whole housing issue with him. Yes, you're right then. As long as he has no real home to keep them at then he should be responsible for getting them to bed on the nights he should have them so you don't have to be home.
Of course, if he is dragging his feet getting that house ready so that he can keep the contact with you, then that is unacceptable.
Well, he asked me Sunday night if I was ever going to tell him about the snakes (in my brain)...that was the last time I talked to him.
Doesn't seem long but we pretty much haven't gone 24 hours without speaking unless he was out of the country....ever. And I am fine with it.
Actually he called me twice yesterday. The first time I was teaching and it just showed as a missed call, no message. So I didn't call him. Then last night we were at swim lessons and he called, it was on vibrate. He left a message to call him. So I did, about 40 minutes later. It went straight to vm with a message saying his mailbox was full. So I just texted "called you back" and left it at that.
I was feeling awful yesterday so I called my mom. She met me at my house after swimming and fed the kids. I went to bed from 6:30 to 8 and then got up so she could go home. Put the kids to bed and went back to bed. I never bothered calling him back and he never called me back either. I really didn't care I felt like crap.
Today I had to email him, Nathan had to turn in his conference form to set our appt. I emailed Dan the 2 days and time ranges. He replied back instantly that he was going to be going to Asia for 2 weeks at the first of November, so pick the second evening. He has mentioned ever since he took the job that he would have to go to Asia sometime, guess now is the time.
I am feeling 'blah' about everything today. I have not gotten the receipt of service from him, he told me again last Thursday he would get it back to me and he hasn't. He never commented on the terms I drafted either. I did tell him this weekend that since he got the power tools I would like a bedroom set. He told me to go get one at the big furniture store in Omaha and charge it to his account, he would pay for it.
So we are on some weird pause it seems. He said in that email 2 weeks ago he is done but he hasn't done a thing to help the process along. Ever since I went to the hotel Saturday I have kind of unplugged from him. I would push him on the D papers but I just have no urge to interact with him. I think I am tired of the whole thing.
Join the club sis, join the club!!
Take care of you,
goodnight!
K
This sounds bad, but I am desiring some physical attention here! And I can't/won't do physical without emotional... so since I can't have an emotional and physical connection with my husband, I will have to have it with someone else.
And I won't go looking for someone else until I am single again. (See my backing out of the date with cute, cute Match.com guy for proof.
)
So it would be wrong to email Dan and say, "Sign the papers already, I want to go find a man to make wild passionate love to", right??
Just frustrated, I guess. In a lot of ways...
Welllll.......
I can say I understand!
Sorry if that was TMI.
I mean, it has been a year. But I don't just mean the ML part. The whole intimacy/human touch thing. Holding hands, hugging, backrubs, sitting together on the couch, kissing, oh do I miss kissing. It is just getting to me this afternoon. People take that for granted, that you can lean over and kiss your spouse whenever you want. Until you can't. Grr....
BBJ,
I can't stop laughing!!!
i hear what you are saying about intimacy. I am pretty intimate if you know what i mean....... and it was difficult. However, even though you have religious beliefs that are probably more conservative than mine, you should slowly get back to trying to date. Surely you weren't serious about waiting for him to sign the paper...then you will wait for the divorce to be official and then you will wait.....not that there is anything wrong with that!!!!
You waited long enough...do what comes naturally....no God that I would worship would hold you accountable for your actions. Oh wait a minute, I am Roman Catholic are we supposed to fornicate strictly for procreation reasons??? Or have they changed that?
Have some fun (not neccesarilly sex)BBJ, you deserve it!!!
((((((BobbiJo))))))
It wasn't TMI! Your feelings are pretty familiar. 'Cept it's been longer!
No John, they have not changed that! Is there something you feel you need to repent about?
BBJ, I'm with John here. Most of us who didn't marry young had to get over the value that we would only have sex in the confines of marriage. It was a dilemma I faced at the age of 18. And by the time I married at 26, I'd had more boyfriends than I had fingers to count them with. So I learned not to count either. Sometimes you need to give yourself permission to have an enjoyable life. There is nothing wrong with that.
I dont know if it works for girls, but I remember a scene in the movie Raging Bull where Jake La Motta used a pitcher of ice water.
Seriously, it sure is nice to partake in the physical part of a relationship. If someone were to ask me what my favorite hobby was, I would have to say working the secret services. But I also think it is important to go slow and not get into an intimate relationship too soon. But you also dont want to wait too long. I had a girlfriend once who I was best buddies with on a platonic basis for about 8 months. Then when it went to the next level, I realized she was quite frigid and we were incompatible for any long term R because of that. But I was still thankful for the good times we spent together.
I really recommend reading the book
Mars and Venus on a Date: A Guide for Na...ng Relationship to get a good perspective on the stages of dating.
Another good one I am reading now is
Make Up, Don't Break Up: Finding and Keeping Love for Singles and Couples
The whole intimacy/human touch thing. Holding hands, hugging, backrubs, sitting together on the couch, kissing, oh do I miss kissing. It is just getting to me this afternoon. People take that for granted, that you can lean over and kiss your spouse whenever you want. Until you can't. Grr....
I couldn't agree more. It's been 18 months for me - I never, ever thought at this point in my life I would go 1 month without any intimacy, at ANY level, much less 18 months.
S4H
See how I get to 13 years?
Our marriage therapist explained to me personally, after 6 months of marriage therapy and 11 years of his bs, that I just needed to move on. He needed help and he refused to embrace the concept. She told me I needed to take control of my life because he knew how to manipulate me.
After I kicked him out, he came by every night. I started to live a life on his weekends. I didn't date just went out with other people that he didn't know. Shockingly, he kept getting too sick to drive carpool on his weekends. He would text me he was sick could I drive his carpool? I would have to leave my only evenings out early to drive his carpool. Then I would find him sleeping in my bed.
So what do I have today? A person who sleeps in my bed. A person who has way too much baggage and has no interest in addressing any of it. A person who makes mucho money but seems to have to travel at the last minute -- especially when I have told him about my pre-planned events. I could go on and on about what I have, but it is useless.
Go out with the cute from Match.com. Do what you feel. If you continue to follow his lead, you will end up with what I have -- an unhappy nothing that snores.
Go out with the cute from Match.com. Do what you feel. If you continue to follow his lead, you will end up with what I have -- an unhappy nothing that snores.
LMAO!! Moving on you are soooo right!!! Damn they dont have match com here!!
Thanks for posting,
Kalni
Well hey I'm in piecing, in fact, I have pieced, as it were... and I'm not getting any either !!!!!!
Sigh.
I agree with the others Bobbi, do what feels natural, no guilt attached! But then thats easy for me to say, as I am an atheist, so I dont have to worry about the big guy upstairs (big girl?)
xxx
But then thats easy for me to say, as I am an atheist, so I dont have to worry about the big guy upstairs (big girl?)
xxx
I would guess you are more of an astrologist instead of an athiest. You believe in something.
Astrology isnt a belief system in that sense, its not a faith, you dont become a member, or follow it as a way of life. Theres no morals, or codes of conduct, commandments, or 'book', it doesnt explain the origins of man and there is no figure head, god, or gods. Its just about observation of all planetary movements and resulting effects, like how the Moon pulls on the tides and on our emotions (hence the term 'lunacy'). Much like watching the weather patterns and subsequent droughts/floods. And its as complicated as predicting the weather too! And we dont always get it right
Not TMI BBJ, not at all. Let's see....21 months and counting....BLECH!
Actually, my gf and I were discussing that last night (2 years for her now) and decided we might just have to start playing for the other team at the rate we're going and the lack of selection around here.
[quote=mishka422Actually, my gf and I were discussing that last night (2 years for her now) and decided we might just have to start playing for the other team at the rate we're going and the lack of selection around here.
[/quote]
Please stay on our team. As Seinfeld says, it is not fair to us guys. You girls have the equipment and know better how to use it. Give us guys more play time and we will get better.
Practice makes perfect and all that?
There would have to be men here that would be willing to give it a go though Kerry. That's the problem with living in the suburban bubble of my city. EVERYONE is M'd except us few D'd women. The D'd men leave town because everyone knows everyone else's business (think Peyton Place). It's quite a soap opera! I'd move if I could.
Feeling frustrated today. Not that kind of frustrated....at least not JUST that kind...
Had dreams all night long. None of them Dan related. Some were random, two included guys who weren't Dan. No clue who they were except maybe from my imagination. No hanky panky but I was involved with one and there was kissing and stuff. The other I just met at some kind of gathering and we were flirting. Weird...Woke up feeling like I had been awake all night.
Contacted atty today since I hadn't heard from them since I sent the draft of our agreement last Tuesday. The legal assistant replied to my email saying they were writing up a 'stipulation' (?), and asking if I had gotten the receipt of service back yet. Grr...no.
Dan and I seem to be doing a good job ignoring each other for the first time ever. Other than 2 missed calls on Monday he has not tried to contact me. I emailed him yesterday morning re. Nathan's school conferences and that was it. He will have the kids tonight while I am at night class so I will see him after when I come home.
I am going to have to bring up the paperwork. I don't see any other option. Today I actually turned pissed again, instead of sad. The last person my H will have had sex with WHILE MARRIED, will not be me. And that really bothers me. I know it is the common story around here. But we slept together last fall after they ended things and for some reason I was glad to think that even though we D'd I would be the last person he was with while married. Call me old fashioned...
I guess I am finally processing the gigantic amount of disrespect he has handed me. A 'good' man doesn't cheat on his wife for 2 years, and yank her around like a yoyo trying to figure out if he wants back in, or not. And to start back up with her last spring, then lie about it...then to wait until I finally have the courage to go to the attorney and file to say he wants to give it another try. And THEN after promising to make things right, he dumps me 12 hours later?? WTF kind of man does that.
I know "hurting, confused, tormented, conflicted", whatever. Sure he is all of those things. But that doesn't excuse lying, playing with my emotions, continually cheating on me and disrespecting me. I am crazy to be spending the time with him that I was spending with him up until this weekend.
So I feel the need to push this forward, get the papers from him and move ahead. And yet I also don't want to even have to talk to him anymore. And at the same time I feel bad for my kids that I can't bring their mom and dad back together. Grr.
WTF kind of man does that.
Hey BBJ, you have no idea how many times I felt like writing something similar. Instead I used the white glove approach in order not to offend you (most posters did or do the same).
I do not know the answer to that question. I know that I would not want to spend another minute of my life in the presence of such a person regardless of his or her excuses. I told K the same thing a while ago, at the end of the day your happiness is what matters. However, we are not talking about a one night stand or several weeks. Their actions show a TOTAL disrespect for you and your feelings ...TOTAL. When they were in the throws of this LONG AFFAIR, they could not care less about the effects it would have on you or your family. If they did they would have stopped and at least tried to make it right (I include my exwife in this discussion). So what kind of person does this (over an extended period of time)? A selfish person who cares ALOT more about themselves than anybody else. Can they change? Maybe a little.....but there is no way that these folks will ever put someone else before them.....this was not a mistake, a momentary weakness, this was and IS much more than that. This is utter disregard for your spouse and your family...I know it hurts to think that about our spouses but it is what i feel.
(most posters did or do the same).
there are a few exceptions..
and John is right on with the rest of it...
he was this way when you met, when you dated..when you first got married..
a leopard can't change it's spots..
and he will never change..
thank God for exceptions!
Thanks, guys.
I guess I am feeling robbed today. My H stole something from me. And I am mad!
Like I keep thinking about my wedding ring. I want to take it off because my M has been trashed by H. He has broken it (I know I played a part but you guys know what I mean), and has no intentions of fixing it. So I know it is 'ok' if I take it off. And I feel like God knows why I would take it off. But I am still bothered because
I didn't cause it to happen, so it isn't fair to me!
I am arriving at this ticked off party wayyyyyy late in the game, aren't I???
Yep, going to tell H tonight he needs to get his azz in gear on getting those papers signed...
His future trip to asia - I've been there multiple times. I've seen how the girls dress. I know that many desire to spend a night with a western man. Dan will have no willpower to not seek out the poon tang when it is so tempting.
Bbj,
it is "hitting" you now. The anger phase will come and...go. It's natural. I still feel in waves, coming and leaving me again (especially when I talk to John-lol).
Take it easy, do what you need to do.
xxx
K
Kerry,
I need no reminders about Asia. Last time he went there was 10 years ago. It was the first time he cheated on me. He took a stripper from a club in Tokyo back to his hotel for a one night stand. I am amazed now that he even told me, the day he got home. He said the guilt was eating him alive. Guess he learned to get over that.
Took my ring off. I just can't deal with this anymore.
Then he calls right after I took it off, but I was in a store and left phone in car. I called him back as he is supposed to pick up the kids, to make sure there was no problem. He just wanted to tell me about a Wii game he bought for Nathan today but decided not to give him till Christmas. Why was that worthy of a phone call??
I went to Neighboring State Furniture Mart this afternoon in Omaha. Found the bedroom set I want. All four pieces come in just over $5000. I am going to get it and charge it to him just like he told me to. It is Arts and Crafts Style. I love it!!
I went to Neighboring State Furniture Mart this afternoon in Omaha. Found the bedroom set I want. All four pieces come in just over $5000. I am going to get it and charge it to him just like he told me to. It is Arts and Crafts Style. I love it!!
Don;t know how it is in your state but here..anything acquired while still maried is a marital asset and marital assets are split 50/50...so no matter what Dan says about "paying for things"..I would be very wary..cause you may end up payin in the long run..
Ok BBJ, so you've been in denial a LONG time. Next step is anger. Let it pour out of you, get it out so you can step beyond it. Be careful when you get to bargaining though....it can send you into a deep depression. As long as you keep aware that it's coming, you will get to acceptance a lot quicker.
As far as the ring is concerned, are you sure you are really ready to take it off or did you just do it in a fit of anger? I took mine off and put it back on so many times until I finally put it away in a locked jewelry box never to be touched again. It took about 3 months before I could do that. Make sure you are doing this for you and not as some sort of signal to Dan or anyone else.
Mike,
I didn't buy it yet. I got the brochure for it and brought it home. I gave it to him last night to look at when I got back from night class. I will hold off on buying it until he signs the stipulation/settlement that says he will pay the store card for that store...
So I was pretty much a b!tch last night, I think. Although for all the nasty texts messages and such he has sent me over the past few years, it was really nothing...Just not how I normally act around him.
When I got home from class they were just getting to my house, at 9:20...that sucks on a school night. I came in and gave him the brochure, he was saying how nice the furniture looked. It is the Stickley style of Craftsman which is really nice considering Stickley is considered one of the founding fathers of the Craftsman furniture style. Wasn't made by him or it would have been $20K! But was made in his style...
Anyway then he starts telling me how he got stitches in his finger, he tore open another finger hanging drywall at his house at one in the morning the previous night and went in during the day to get it stitched. It just bothered me b/c he wanted to be all chatty and friendly with me. But I taught him that we could be friends like that, so I have no one to be mad at but me. I am the one that has changed this past week, not him.
So anyway he went and put the kids to bed and I did my own stuff around the house. He came out at 11 and ran out to the car to get me my October $$.
I met him on the stairs and asked him if he had signed the receipt yet. He said no, I asked why not. He said he would get it done. I told him I didn't appreciate his dragging his feet. That after all his email said he wanted to move forward with his life so he needed to honor that.
I walked away into the next room and he sighed and said he really wasn't looking forward to signing it. I gave him a look that I am sure would have killed him if it could have. And I told him that he had been given 101 opportunities NOT to sign the form but he chose otherwise. Then I told him I was ready to be hugged and kissed again and I turned away and he left.
But I taught him that we could be friends like that, so I have no one to be mad at but me. I am the one that has changed this past week, not him.
True. We do teach others how to treat us don't we. I don't think we've done a very good job of that!
And I told him that he had been given 101 opportunities NOT to sign the form but he chose otherwise. Then I told him I was ready to be hugged and kissed again and I turned away and he left.
OUCH! Good one, but OUCH!
It sounds like he is having second thoughts. But I think you handled that very well...you don't want to get caught in the same situation that you have in the past. Stay off the rollercoaster for a while. And allow yourself to be as angry as you want...
And I told him that he had been given 101 opportunities NOT to sign the form but he chose otherwise.
This just causes him more indecision.
How about...
Get me the noterized signed copy by tomorrow. Otherwise, my attorney will have the Sheriff serve you at your workplace on Monday.
Kerry
You are a smart, smart guy. Help me out. How can I cause him MORE indecision? He already was indecisive. I thought he was finally being decisive for once in his life when he dumped me in the email...and said he was moving on with life.
He looked pretty sad and resigned when he left, I bet he gets it signed today.
Kerry is smart and I agree with Kerry's quote above and would tell Dan the exact same thing..
I thought he was finally being decisive for once in his life when he dumped me in the email...and said he was moving on with life.all that was an act i think...to buy some more time
He looked pretty sad and resigned when he left,
puppy dog eyes..playing the sympathy card..
I bet he gets it signed today.
it will shock me if he does..I beleive you will have to have him served..
I have to agree. I sympathize with you, I know this is a tough decision to make. But the sympathy card with him is just another way he can control the situation. Sure he wants you to file, sure he wants the divorce, but on his terms.
Why give him what he wants? If you want this too, and it seems inevitable to me, then tell him to sign off on the waiver or you will have him served. Period.
I thought he was finally being decisive for once in his life when he dumped me in the email...and said he was moving on with life.
You be decisive. Why do you have to wait around for him. Tell him exacty what everyone else said. You WILL have him served if he does not get the signed copy to you tonight. No excuses. He's had freakin' long enough. GGGRRRRRR!!!!!!!
You decide. You take control. Stop giving Dan all the control over the timeline here. He has dragged you along, holding out a dangling carrot to you for years now. Stop rising to his DANG bait!
Oh, so many curse words aimed at Dan in my head right now. I'm biting my tongue and sitting on my hands not to spew them. I swear, that man needs a thrashing!
He doesn't want to sign it because he's most comfortable with the limbo status he has with you. He can be nice and be "family" Dan when HE wants to and you and your kids are there for him. When HE wants to be "single" Dan he can be that as well contacting the OW or being simply by himself, knowing that his other option (you) is just one of his mood swings away. As long as he can keep this going he will. It is a control thing with him. If he signs the paper and you move on, he loses not only the "family Dan" option, but you as well. He's used to dangling you on a string. I agree with the others here, you need to take control of the situation.
S4H
Hey Bobbi,
How are you doing today? I keep thinking about your sitch. Theres a lot of 'emotion'..not surprising. But isnt it best to proceed with a divorce with a clear head and once the emotion and anger has all died down? I sort of dont understand why you have to push it now, although I can see you want to do SOMETHING.
I was wondering.. can you separate the issues? My ex, the Piscean is still M but been S 5 years. There was alot of anger and infedility he put up with..he gave her lots of chances, but eventually he decided to formally separate (but emotionally, wasnt ready to divorce). What he did though, was separate the finances, completely. He bought her out of the house, closed the joint account and they did formal legal financial separation so neither can come back to the other in the future with a claim on their finances. Then he said, the large part of the divorce is done really in the eyes of the law. It just remains to actually divorce and dissolve the M, which after 5 years, like he said, they hadnt yet taken that final step.
Is that what this waiver is? I think for reasons of practicality and your sanity, you need to separate your bills, finances and KNOW what money you will be receiving every month. Can you pursue this part of it, but leave the part where you dissolve the M perse? It sounds like it is upsetting and frustrating you to MAKE him sign the divorce petition and thats bad for you to have to deal with, seeing as you didnt want the D.
Maybe just continue NOT dealing with him and NOT being his matey buddy wierd 'family wife' and comfort zone. I think pulling back emotionally, not being available or chatting to him anymore would have more effect on him, than forcing him to sign papers but continuing to allow him to spend time in your house. Just a thought !
Thinking of you, Al xxx
Thanks Ali. I am ok today, I believe a sinus infection is taking up residence. My head is so full, esp around my forehead and eyes, with the yucky drainage and headache. Not my idea of a fun Friday but oh well!
Last night was a little bittersweet. I spent the evening with my kids, running around Omaha. We had allergy shots, then shopping. My baby boy FINALLY wears a size 6/7!! (He turned 7 in August and was wearing size 5 shorts all summer.) We tried his winter shirts on the other day and they were too short. And the 4T coat from last winter wasn't big enough.
So we went shopping and he got lots of great clothes, he wants to look more like his daddy so we got some nicer shirts and sweaters, he is looking too big! Only one shirt with a cartoon on it...
Then we had dinner together and headed home for bubble tubs and bed time.
I lay on the floor between my two kids in their beds. In the dark, Nathan asks,
"Mom what is the difference between a house and a home?"
We have had this discussion before and I said what I always have said. "A house is just the building, being with your family makes it a home."
I have used that explanation before, with all of our moves, to show him it doesn't matter where we live as long as we are together. (see where this is going...)
So he replies, "Then we don't have a home. Because daddy doesn't live here."
I tried to reassure him that we do still have a home, his mom and his sissy live with him and love him very much and his daddy will always be part of his family, too. No matter what.
Of course he can apply this to his dad's house once he lives there part of the time, too. Because I won't live there, so I suppose he won't think it is a home, either?
Trying to figure out the best way to handle this.
Well I am angry and sad again today. As I said on K's thread, it isn't either of those exactly. I feel 'wronged', violated, etc.
It is strange b/c I was very frustrated/angry on Wednesday night when I snapped at H. Then Thurs/Fri somehow I got back to thinking, if we are getting a D then for my kids at least we can be friends.
At least this time it only took two days for me to figure out "Nope, not now". I guess I am cycling, but a little faster? Don't know if that is good or bad...
I was shopping today and for some reason thought of him and her together. And how he chose that over me, our family, etc etc instead of talking to me about what was wrong.
I feel almost embarrassed/ashamed today. Thinking of how I have 'killed him with kindess' the past 2 years since this happened. You know how dogs will get down on their belly to a bigger dog to show that they submit?
That has to be how I came across so many times and I am embarrassed to think that...
Mike I bought the Lady Antebellum CD today. I knew several of their songs already but I listened to the one you posted the other day. Good stuff. Several good songs on that CD about relationships actually...
And out of the blue, I decided to reactivate my Match account. Not planning to date yet, but wanted some interactions for the old PMA. Had an IM exchange with a gentleman this morning. He was heading for the farmer's market while I was heading out to a big craft fair, biggest one in the state supposedly. Ten minutes later I got a notice that he had added me to his "favorites" list... Just nice to remember that I am a pretty great, appealing person, my H just happens to be an idiot...
I'll drink to that. You husband IS an idiot.
It is good to recognize that you are cycling. And I am starting to see that you realize that your life will continue on if you get divorced. That is one of the advantages to the divorce busting - it can help to save your marriage, but it also takes the final sting away if it does end.
My friend had told me shortly after my bomb that the emotional pain would only get worse. But because of MWD's books and the advice and 2*4's on these forums, it was not to bad of a hurt when I realized that my marriage could not be saved. I knew that there would be much better days ahead and that I could once again find someone to love in addition to my children.
I know that I dont have to tell you to be cautious on match.com. But as a reminder, you probably should ignore responding to guys without pictures or ones who want to meet right away. Hey, I may have to go check out your match.com entry you have for spelling errors or anything else that might attract too many losers. But dont worry, I wont wink at you since you are way too young for me and live way too far away. Maybe you could look at my entry for anything that might be a turn off. One thing I know that women dont want to see are shirtless guys holding their dead fish/animals while on their motorized toy. But recently, I have had a very interesting lady contact me who is showing interest in old Kerry. We have exchanged a lot of emails and talked last night a bit - maybe even meet tomorrow.
Hey Kerry!
I am pretty picky on Match. If there is no photo, I don't even bother. I have to have some kind of mental image to go by.
Then I review the photos. Shirtless--no go. Holding a beer in every picture--no go. Bad teeth--no go. Sorry, but you have to be selective and if I am snobby so be it!
Then I read the profile. I can't handle multiple spelling errors, bad grammar, or too much cheese. One guy had for a tag line, "Single and ready to mingle"...I know that's from a movie but still--no go.
Also, if the first contact they make is to ask me "When are we meeting up?" or "What are we doing tonight?"--no go.
So far I have only communicated with two guys. The one from August who asked me out after about 6 emails, and the guy today who IM'd me. We chatted for about 5 minutes, nothing major.
Thanks for checking it out, Kerry. I will have to look for yours.
Also I forgot if their username contains "xxx" or "69" in any fashion, no go.
MEN!
There are way too many predators and losers (Leisure Suit Larry's) out there giving the rest of us a bad reputation.
I dont know about the guy profiles, but what is up with the women profiles that have pictures of them with their X? And there are some women profiles with bikini or laying on the bed pictures, but yet they go into lengthy detail informing all the guys wanting sex to not bother to wink or email.
Teeth? The first lady I ever french kissed (and more) was missing most of her front teeth. But she more than made up for it with her elegant drunken language. When my booze tranquilizer wore off, I bolted just like one of those wild animals that they set free from a trap.
BBJ,
I heard many horror stories from women that I met on-line. It was unbelievable...every woman had a few horror stories. You should be ok because you are in no hurry. Therefore, if someone is interested in you, he will continue to IM or e-mail you and eventually speak on the phone (private # always). Take your time...if you feel that something is wrong stop. Move on, regardless of how nice his teeth are.
Kerry!!! No front teeth!!! OMG!!! What were you on? LOL!!!
Bbj, all I can say, the minute someone shows genuine interest in you, Dan will look SOOOO much "smaller".
I am into cycling lately as well. Maybe we should start wearing tights as lodo does...
K
Yes, I need the tights with the padding in the butt as much cycling as I am doing these days...
Have gotten two emails on match in the last two days. The only things either guy said was "You have my attention." Is that a pick up line now?? Granted, it is not so bad. Better than "Where are we going tonight?" But still...?
Annoyed at Dan again. More so annoyed at me than at him. He totally thinks I am still same old reliable BBJ.
Last night I took the kids over to play with their cousins, as SIL was in town for the weekend. I came back to pick them up and stayed an hour or so, my other SIL had come over too (both live out of town) so I had all my nieces (4) from H's side in one place.
My oldest niece was showing off her senior pictures, using H's laptop and internet connection to do so, which means he was right there. (beautiful, smart girl, I cannot believe she was three weeks old when Dan and I had our first date!!)
I didn't say anything to him, in fact I didn't really address him the whole time I was at the house, when I dropped the kids off or when I picked them up. Then he asked me how my time at the craft fair went (that's where I was while the kids played) so I had to talk to him briefly.
Anyway as we were leaving one SIL was leaving too, her D14 complained she was hungry. So MIL offered to go in town for dinner at a restaurant together. SIL said no and then my D started bawling to go to the restaurant. Well H pipes in from the next room that "we will go there after church tomorrow". So, it was my day on Sunday and he just invited himself for lunch???
I took the kids out to the car and he followed me to the car (I was kind of ignoring him I guess) to tell me he would see me for church.
Then this morning he texted that he was busy building a fence with his dad in the pasture, was not stopping for church. But he added that I should let him know if we are still going to lunch so he can meet us.
Grr! That just annoyed me b/c it is like, he can just go about his business and pop in for family time whenever he wants. I didn't even respond to the message.
I did call MIL and invite her, SIL and her girls out for lunch after church. Since we were going to the restaurant she suggested and my D wanted to see her cousin I thought it was ok. Well MIL said no she was baking a ham and planned on us coming out for lunch if we wanted to. I left it up to the kids. I told them we could go to the restaurant, but Sydney wanted to see her cousin (same age). So I took them out there after church. Dan popped in from the field to eat and then went out again. I pretty much didn't talk to him at all, just talked to the SIL and to my kids. We stayed about 2 hours and then I took the kids home.
Just annoyed today. I wasn't sure how to handle this weekend b/c it was my weekend to have the kids but it was his nieces (although I consider them 100% mine too) who were in town...
Hi Bobbi,
I have an admission to make regarding meeting someone on Match., I met my H there 10 yrs ago when it was in it's infancy. I was on for a total of 6 days & he was my 1st & last date.
I also met NG on Match., after being a member a total of 3 days, 1st & only date.
They're both Gemini's (as is my xH), same all around appearance, height, etc.
I almost didn't go out with NG because I didn't want to repeat my pattern.
Anyway, I think it's a pretty good way to meet people & in some ways it can be safer than meeting someone say in the grocery store.
NG did tell me some pretty good Match. stories, like meeting a woman who posted some elses pictures & another that was a good 10 yrs older than she had in her profile. The lying about your age is pretty common I guess.
"Then I review the photos. Shirtless--no go. Holding a beer in every picture--no go. Bad teeth--no go. Sorry, but you have to be selective and if I am snobby so be it!"
In looking thru the profiles, I couldn't believe all the shirtless/flexing ones posted. Who does that appeal to?
You can be ruthlessly selective, that's the beauty of meeting someone that way.
There are also a huge amount of laughs to be had @ Match., which is a good thing when parts of our world are so serious & unfunny.
Take Care,
Sunny
So BBJ....you're not posting on your thread but you're on everyone else's? What gives chica? You got some splainin' to do.....!
Just sorting things out, Mish...
That night in the hotel last weekend I wrote 15 pages trying to get the crap out of my brain that was buzzing around...
It only worked for a couple days...
So today I was home with a bad sinus infection. I wrote a 3 page letter to Dan but I didn't send it... guess I think if I write it out it will go away.
It was his night tonight, he showed up to swim lessons unexpectedly (they go from 4:30-5:30 when he is usually at work). Said he took the afternoon off to work on his house.
I took the kids back to the house after lessons to get washed up and dressed. He met me there presumably to take them...Sydney said she wanted to go out to eat at HuHot. Only, she doesn't eat the Mongolian, she eats their chicken strips!
So Dan said that Nathan was already comfy on the couch and didn't want to go anywhere (although he didn't ask him...) so he would make Sydney chicken strips at home. He asked me--in front of kids--if it was ok if he bought some chicken if he could make it at my house. I just told him there was already some in the freezer and I went downstairs to check my email.
He yelled down to me a minute later to ask me if I wanted some chicken too (he knows I have been dieting). I said no thanks. And then I got up and I said bye and I left for a few hours until I was sure the kids would be in bed.
I told him last Thursday night what Nathan said about this not being a home b/c his dad isn't here...I told him in a very matter-of-fact email, just requesting that he re-affirm to Nathan that he does have a home, etc. So his way of helping was to keep the kids at my house Friday night and to tell Nathan he was staying "home" to watch movies. (Dan explained this to me after the fact, once again on Friday I left for a couple hours. He offered me dinner that night too but I went out instead.)
So I suppose tonight was him attempting to help Nathan feel at home?
Well he didn't get what I was saying then. True, Nathan said this wasn't his home b/c I told him home was where your family is and he said it wasn't his family without his dad. But, that didn't mean I wanted his dad to be over at my place all the time!! Guess he thinks that will make Nathan feel at home!?!?!
I just don't know how to be around him anymore now that I don't expect a reconciliation. So I kind of try to avoid him.
By the time I got home the kids were in bed. Dan was watching Star Wars on cable. I came in and started doing some things in the kitchen. He said he needed to get going back to his house to do some more work. And he said he was still interested in hearing about the 'snakes'--previous weekend reference when I went to the hotel to sort my head out--whenever I was ready to share. I just said ok thanks for the offer but you better go work on your house it is late.
Sigh.............................
Oh and btw I am not having a pity party, promise! I have been on Match a little bit checking out profiles. Trying to imagine what the guy I am going to be kissing next will look like. Who will the lucky guy be??
Only dated 2 people in my life (!!!) so this should be fun!
[Kissing a handful of guys in college after fun times at the local bar doesn't count as dating, right?]
I had a high school boyfriend for 10 months. The day after I dumped him for cheating (was more an EA than PA but I didn't care I was pissed), Dan asked me out. So I have never had 'just a date'.......
Believe it or not, learning to date is a skill. You should develop it. And it's fun too!
Believe it or not, learning to date is a skill. You should develop it. And it's fun too!
Learning to date is the easy part, figuring out what your really looking for is the more difficult challenge. Someone once said a picture is worth a thousand words, but they obviously hadn't been on a dating web site.
BBJ, having someone in your presence that you care for (who does not care for you as much) on a regular basis is very difficult. In my opinion, for your sake, you will have to figure out a way to keep him out of the house. Boundaries need to be erected slowly. The kids and what they say hurt as well...i tried once to share what D8 told me and i was told that perhaps it was my general attitude that brought it on. I realized at that moment that regardless of what i would "report", the WAS would not accept responsibilty....that is still probably true today.
So...although i sympathize with the fact that Dan has literally been the only man in your life and that he is the father of your children, if you ask me (and you did not), the house (regardless of who owns it on paper) needs to be your refuge. You should not have to hide in your own home and he has had plenty of time to make the neccesary arrangements to have his own home for himself and the kids.
I agree 100% John. That is what I am fighting in myself, that I can't be friends with him. I know it, I just have to let him know it...
I understand the strangeness of considering dating. I've got the same problem. I had been with Gabe since I was 18 and before that only went out with maybe 4 other guys and only one of those was for more than a few dates. It's a strange, strange world out there!
Keep evaluating your boundaries and make sure that you can stick to them when you set them.
How long is it going to take Dan to finish up this house to a point where it's livable? For heavens sakes, it seems like he's been working on it forever. Is he completely gutting it or something?
As a matter of fact, Mish, he is almost entirely renovating. He thought he was just tearing out all the fixtures (kitchen and bath), then new carpet and paint and all done! Initially he told me it would take him about two months. That was in February...
Wouldn't you know the windows were rotten so he took them out to replace them, and found out the siding was wet/rotten under the windows. So he tore all the siding off the front of the house, then off the side of the house, so I think now to make it all match (it was built in 1980 so old vertical wood siding) he will tear all the siding off...then the soffit was broken so he needed to replace it, etc etc etc
It is going to be a long winter at this rate.
Actually I am kind of excited at the prospect of dating. It has been a dozen years since college, but I was the fun-loving one, always going out with friends, flirting, etc. It will be strange but I am going into the idea with an open mind. Just the thought of eventually meeting someone I can hug/touch/kiss...yay!
Good for you BBJ! I just look at it as a terrifying experience that I really don't think I want to have but the hugs and kisses would be MORE than welcome.
So contradictory huh? The warped way my brain works.....
Good grief! You don't think he's imagining all of these problems just to delay things do you? Didn't he have an inspection before he bought the place? I know it was sold as a fixer upper but wouldn't he still have had it inspected?
The dating thing is terrifying to me as well. It has been 18 years since I last dated and that was my wife! I have also tiptoed into the land of Match.com. Finally got the nerve up to email one person just to tell them I liked their sense of humor, thought we had a lot in common based on her responses, and if after reviewing my profile she was interested in communicating she should email me back...well she immediately block me from her profile.
I swear I'm not a wierdo or anything!! and I don't have any shirtless, flexing photos on my profile page either!
S4H
How about that beer you were holding in you hand s4h?
Bbj, dating in...exciting. And the good part nowdays is, you can always block them from your profile, LOL!!!
K
I think I have blocked 112 so far....
Gotta be picky!
How about that beer you were holding in you hand s4h?
K
I swear that bottle was empty and the photographer forced me to hold it - hmmm... and have you been looking at my match.com profile???
S4H
Wow... you blocked 112 already !!???? What, was that 112 who wanted to chat with you on match.com?? I applaud you going down this route though, I know its not what you want but its definetly what you deserve Bobbi...
xxx
Yep Ali, around 200 have viewed my profile, and about 40 have 'winked' at me, and about 10 have emailed me. As well as a handful of sudden "IM"s while I am online...only about 5 of them have interested me, so guess that makes me selective!
I would have preferred 'dating' my H again. That actually sounds fun to me, starting over, going on dates, etc. But he wasn't interested. I just know I was not meant to be alone, I love to be in a relationship, to care for someone and to be loved and held, etc.
Not rushing into that either, though, no need to go from frying pan to fire as they say. Once I go from 'just window shopping' to actually meeting people face to face, I will take my own sweet time and enjoy myself...
...well she immediately block me from her profile.
How do you know whether someone blocks you? Do you find that out when you click on their profile again?
Yep Ali, around 200 have viewed my profile, and about 40 have 'winked' at me, and about 10 have emailed me. As well as a handful of sudden "IM"s while I am online.
Wow! It seems that men are much more of a pursuer early on than women.
Well I didn't even know you could block someone until I got blocked myself! That shows you how Match.com savy I am.
Truth be told, I was more worried the person I emailed was going to say yes she wanted to meet me than anything else!
S4H
...well she immediately block me from her profile.
How do you know whether someone blocks you? Do you find that out when you click on their profile again?
Yes - it says profile no longer available, or something like that.
Now I want to block someone.
Bobbi Jo - you might want to check out St Louis or Kansas City - both of their football teams need some good blockers.
(((((BobbiJo))))))
No need to rush! I have no doubt that you will see lots of interest.
So far the women I've met have all been "real". No ancient pictures, unreal ages, etc. I did hear a story or two about men who used pictures that were either old, or not even them. That jsut seems stupid to me. But what do I know?
Has winter started yet? I needed a jacket to watch S14's football game the other night. Should have worn shorts when I went golfing Sunday afternoon, though.
Jeff we had a fluke 3" of snow on Saturday, gone by Sunday though. Still colder than normal, highs in the low 40s today for us...wanted to go to pumpkin patch but still too chilly. Mid 50s by the weekend...
We're almost getting to the mid 50s at night.....
This is the best time of year weatherwise. Not too hot, not too cold, sunny.....
Tonight didn't go as planned...
I told the kids we would go to the pumpkin patch after Nathan's allergy shots this afternoon. Well, it was pouring rain!! And in the 40s....
I had mentioned it in front of Dan last night but did NOT invite him to come with us. Well he called me at 5:30 for no apparent reason other than to point out it was crappy weather? The first words out of his mouth were, "So doesn't look like you will be going to the pumpkin patch, huh?" and he mentioned he was heading home from work. I don't know if he was fishing to come over assuming we would be home since it was raining...
I just told him the patch was out so I was taking the kids out for dinner. And then I hung up and I did! They wanted IHOP so they got pancakes and I got soup/salad. Not exactly Nutrisystem but not too bad, either!
Now we are home getting ready to cuddle under some blankets and finish a movie that Nathan started last night with his dad and didn't finish. Good times.
I am having yet another health issue though...I swear I think stress breaks your body apart. Last year it was the breast milk leakage making them think I had a pituitary tumor. Then a couple months ago those headaches and they worried about my nervous system. Luckily both turned out to be non-issues.
Now I am having bleeding between periods (sorry boys TMI!) and I called the gyn since I have never had that before, am not sexually active, not on birth control so no real reason for it? The nurse said I could come in for an ultrasound to check my uterine lining or wait and monitor and see what happens next month. I went with plan B, wait and see....
The bleeding between periods is pretty par for the course during times of extreme stress.
I had that happen quite a bit last year and they weren't too concerned about it because it was not painful and not unusually heavy.
I'll pray it's nothing more than that BBJ. I know it can make you extremely nervous when something starts going haywire with your body and you already have so much on your plate.
Hey Bobbi.. sorry to hear you are having more health worries !
My Mum always taught me to never ignore anything unusual like that! I had some pain/blood.. sure enough, I later had a burst ovarian cyst (could have been nasty). A few years earlier, she had some small spotting mid cycle and her GP said dont worry, but she demanded a scan.. she had a massive (benign) ovarian tumour! If I ever had anthing unusual mid cycle I would get it checked out at soon as I could, even if it hopefully is nothing to worry about.
Hugs, Al xxx
Thanks for the thoughts, ladies. I am pretty sure we scared away the men!!
I am still having bad cramps just like a regular period. This is day 3 of the 'surprise' visit from my monthly visitor...my regular visit was quite heavy as it often is so I don't know why it is here again so soon.
Not much else new in the world for me. Headed out for school. Going to try and run after school and see how far I can go. I went 4 miles on Monday but it was rough, I need to go five on Sunday!!!
Men.....avert your eyes unless you want to hear more about the inner workings of a woman's body!
am still having bad cramps just like a regular period. This is day 3 of the 'surprise' visit from my monthly visitor...my regular visit was quite heavy as it often is so I don't know why it is here again so soon.
Get it checked. Now. Don't wait please. That does not sound like a normal stress induced spotting. That doesn't sound like spotting at all.
Men.....avert your eyes unless you want to hear more about the inner workings of a woman's body!
am still having bad cramps just like a regular period. This is day 3 of the 'surprise' visit from my monthly visitor...my regular visit was quite heavy as it often is so I don't know why it is here again so soon.
Get it checked. Now. Don't wait please. That does not sound like a normal stress induced spotting. That doesn't sound like spotting at all.
lol..you think "period" talk scares me..LOL..you forget...Michele, two teenage daughters and a third one ready to start just anytime and they are pretty much on the same cycle....
be afraid, be very afraid..
OMG! That many hormones in one place makes even me shudder.
lol..you think "period" talk scares me..LOL..you forget...Michele, two teenage daughters and a third one ready to start just anytime and they are pretty much on the same cycle....
I cant break this image in my brain of Mike holding 4 purses at the ladies shoe department.
Yeah - I've got an 11 year-old who just started getting "visited" about 3 months ago. I found myself yesterday standing in the Feminine Hygiene section trying to figure out which type of pad to buy - how can there be that many (mini, maxi, light, etc.) and why can't they just do one size fits all!
S4H
lol..you think "period" talk scares me..LOL..you forget...Michele, two teenage daughters and a third one ready to start just anytime and they are pretty much on the same cycle....
I cant break this image in my brain of Mike holding 4 purses at the ladies shoe department.
I've not got time to hold purses..I'm too busy holding on to my nuts..
You guys are too funny!
Can't decide what to do. On one hand I feel like a hypochondriac...on the other, I am concerned bc this has never happened to me before.
The only 'female' problem I ever had was when I was 13 and had just started...my third period ever lasted 16 days of basically hemmorhaging. I wound up in the hospital for 3 days, got 6 units of blood (!), had to have a D&C. They said it was a hormone imbalance at the time (1989). Luckily no permanent damage as I had my two kids with no problem.
This is like a regular period, cramps, low back pain, clots, yuck...
Go see the doc. If it's "nothing", at least you'll know. If it's "something", the sooner the better.
((((((BobbiJo))))))
Thirteen in '89..... I don't want to think about that!
Thirteen in '89..... I don't want to think about that!
Me either.
That's the year I graduated high school.
ugh it's the year I got married!
BBJ, got to the Dr.
Thirteen in '89..... I don't want to think about that!
Me either.
That's the year I graduated high school.
I wish that was the year I graduated high school.....
Reminiscent old fogies! Are you all going to start in with a bunch of tales about having to walk up hill in the snow to and from school or how you did not have a color tv or remote control growing up?
I'm breaking out my walkin' stick and listenin' horn right now Kerry.
See BBJ....not normal. Please go to the doctor. Now I'm worried. It probably doesn't help that I just found out last night that one of my friends has stage 3 ovarian cancer.
So sorry about your friend, Mish. I have an appt. for 2:45 tomorrow to do an ultrasound. I am just anxious to tell my principal, because
1)I was already out early last Wednesday (Oct 7) to go to my neurology follow up--at least the headaches are gone and I don't have to go back!
2)I was gone on Monday b/c I had that nasty sinus infection
That means this will be my third medical 'thing' in 7 days of work!
Granted I only left 1 hr early last Wed. and will only need to leave 90 minutes early tomorrow...
hi sis
I'm glad you made the appt. BBJ.
Yes, it stinks that you are going to have to be out, but better to do it now than wait and possibly have to take longer later to clear up something that could have been handled a lot earlier.
I'm blushing!
hee heee heee!!! Good going!
I'm starting to think I may need to sign up for that just to see what's what. I have a profile on a free site but that's going nowhere, not that I think it should anyway. The curiosity is killing me though.
OK, I feel like a stalker....
Nice profile!
Yay, thanks!!
I figured I would just be me on the profile, cause, well, who else could I be? Plus if someone read all of that (I am so wordy!!) and still wanted to get to know me, that is a good sign...
This evening's guy was the same guy who IM'ed me Sat morning. He was headed to farmer's market and I was off to craft fair. Just random chatty on Sat. a bit longer chat tonight. Fun and harmless.
Always nice on the PMA.
I think being you would be pretty effective with sane men!
How you doin'??? (said with a thick NY accent a la Joey on Friends!)
Pretty good baby, how YOU doin'? (In my best Joey voice)
Actually told Sydney the other day she had her "eatin' pants on"....remember that one? He wore Rachel's maternity pants to Thanksgiving b/c they gave his belly room to grow.
Oh yeah, I remember it! I LOVE Friends and actually cried when it went off the air.
I am still watching Friends every Sat Sun at 15:00. And on dvd the rest of the days...
K
I would love to buy the entire set of DVD's. Just a little too expensive for something not necessary. Maybe someday...:)
Smelly Cat, Smelly Cat,
What are they feeding you?
Smelly Cat, Smelly Cat
It's not your fault
Best Song!
I had a cat for a while that made me think of that song!
We have the entire Friends DVD collection and rarely a day goes by that an episode isn't playing. I keep hoping they'll do a reunion movie or something. Speaking of pants, one of my favorites is Ross and his leather pants.
I love it when Joey puts on all of Chandler's clothes and then goes commando in them!
Priceless!
We have the entire Friends DVD collection and rarely a day goes by that an episode isn't playing. I keep hoping they'll do a reunion movie or something. Speaking of pants, one of my favorites is Ross and his leather pants.
"The powder and the lotion have formed some kind of paste...."
One of my top ten lines from friends. Along with
"I'm Chandler. Could I BE wearing more clothes? Oh, yeah, I could, if I wasn't going COMMANDO!" (spoken by Joey)
Seriously guys thanks for the comic relief. I am actually getting nervous about my dr. appointment. Not sure what is more of a worry, if they do find something or if they don't. I don't like to hear "Wait and see"...
((((((BobbiJo))))))
Hopefully there won't be too much wait and see! But if there is, the sooner the better!
Hey sis,
any news from the doctor?
K
Well I was not too impressed with the Dr. visit. It was only the second time I have seen this gyn and I wasn't too blown away the first time...I picked her out of a list in our insurance book b/c her office was next to a hospital so I knew where to find it...
Not to be mean, but when I walked in it is like a free clinic. Packed with people, most not speaking English and not real hygienic...for my annual exam/pap in Aug I saw her for about 90 seconds. She didn't ask any questions, took a sample, and out the door.
This time I saw her for almost 3 whole minutes maybe...she came in, asked about my symptoms (heavy bleeding and bleeding between periods). She plugged in the ultrasound. 10 seconds later said "ovaries look good", then she said my uterine lining looks thin and that there was "a little fluid in there, maybe you had a cyst rupture". Sorry, but maybe???? Is that the most definitive she could be?
So she turned off the machine and said that I should watch it and if it comes back next month come in and they will give me birth control pills to help...
So I guess just monitor and see.
Those kind of visits are so frustrating! It's like why did I even bother coming in and wasting my time. How are BCP's going to help a ruptured cyst? Seems like a good time to throw the "I want a second opinion flag".
S4H
I guess the medical care in the US. is similar to what we have up here. Sometimes, I think our animals get more attentive care than we do.
Hang in there BBJ...I guess on the positive side she does not seem worried one bit....maybe it is just a one time thing...stress related.
I would maybe change doctors. I am older than you are and have had polysystic ovarian disease since my late 20's. When a cyst burts I usually have a sharp pain on that side but I don't have "extra" bleeding though I think some women may spot. I am on the pill to keep my hormones from creating the extra cysts, not because I need them for any other reason.
Just a thought. kat
Hey Bobbi, I agree with Kat.. go to another doctor.
I had a ruptured cyst and a) it hurts like hell. I had to be taken to A&E and couldnt walk it hurt so bad.. a sharp pain on one side taht you cannot ignore, like Kat (mine was big, so maybe thats why it hurt so bad !!)
b) If it was that anyway, you would need checking out afterwards properly because it can cause a very deadly infection. They do offer birth control for this problem (I declined it).
If theres free fluid present, that can be from a ruptured cyst but can also be a symptom of uterine muscle and ovarian cancer I believe, not necessarily malignant. But it probably isnt that.. still best to double check hey !
Hugs xxx
I'm throwing my hat into the 'get a second opinion' ring.
Yes John, sadly our medical care isn't any better here than it is up your way. Just CRAZY EXPENSIVE!
Bbj,
what's going on? Are you keeping secrets from us?
Hope you are ok...
K
It has definitely been too many days BBJ....I'm going to have to get over on FB and pester you.
I am alive! Haven't posted bc there is really nothing to post...
I had an awesome time at the marathon relay. Cut 2 minutes off my leg (5 miles), and ran the last 1.2 miles with the rest of the team. Our team was 10 minutes faster than we were last year, yay!
Excited to do some more races. Was invited to a cross-country race at Living History Farms (includes jumping over a creek
) in November...
Still chatting with the guy on Match. Not the one from August, this guy and I started talking about 10 days ago. He is a runner and invited me to go for a jog some time. I might go.
Dan and I are at a stand-still. The last we spoke about the D was almost 2 weeks ago when I asked yet again about the paper. He said at the time he would get it done, I asked why the hold-up and he said he "wasn't looking forward to it". Which could be for a million reasons but I am not a mind reader.
I suppose I can drop it and leave things as they are, but I don't want to. I am not interested in staying in this limbo/impassse any more. It's funny b/c a year ago I would probably have been happy he hadn't returned the papers yet but now it just bothers me.
So I can bring it up more pointedly or I can just serve him. I know the consensus would say serve him but I just hate going that route.
Besides he leaves today to go to Canada for a week. Gets back Sunday night and then leaves the following Sunday for 12 days in Asia. So he won't be around much the next month basically.
Yeah, I know you hate the idea of serving him, but you know Dan and you KNOW he is doing this (not signing) in order to continue to control you. STOP LETTING HIM!
So he won't be around much the next month basically.
And that will be Dan's next excuse as to why he hasn't signed.
You have 1 week in which to get him served. Do it. Make the arrangements now and be done with it.
Good job on the run time. I'm so impressed! I've never been able to run more than a dozen yards at a time so anyone who does amazes me.
I'd make sure he had a miserable Asia trip by serving him between trips..
after all..he would do it to you.
But he may be so depressed on his asia trip that he may turn to the comfort of prostitutes. And with his karma, he might even end up with a kathoey one.
Way to go on the race... what was your most motivational tune?
Seems like you and I are both waiting for some one to make the move. YOu would think if they were so resolved it would be easy to do. I am so fed up with these men on this board and the W too..... uughgh I guess I should say these pod people that once were different people... or where they?
I think if you want the D you should serve him before his trip.... Really if that's what you want, what difference does it make in the big picture. I do not think it's what you should do if it's not what you want to happen. So that's my 2 cents which problaby isn't worth a half cent right now....LOL
Again.. great job on the run.....
As you know sc I do not want a divorce. I just don't know what else to do and I am so tired...
It is just the final insult/disrespect to tell your wife you cannot be married to her anymore, and then avoid following through...
Yes, i am in the same boat, except he's in the house
That would be wayyyy too hard for me. At this point I would rather just not see him anymore. He popped in last night around 8...I had the front door open as a boy scout had stopped by selling popcorn. I was up writing a check while the boy waited on the porch, when I heard Dan's voice say, "Oh, selling popcorn, huh!?"
He just walked right through the open door and into the basement to see the kids. They were playing with their grandpa...my mom joined me and the kids for dinner to celebrate great swim lessons (Nathan swam the length of the pool without a float belt for the first time!!) and she called my dad to come by the house after work to tell the kids good job swimming.
So anyway he just walked in and my dad left 5 minutes later, I felt like he thought he should go since Dan was there. I asked Dan why he was at my house and he said he wanted to tell the kids bye before he went to Canada. I had totally forgotten he was going! When we made our Oct. calendar he said he was going one of two weeks, last week or this week. We didn't write it on the calendar since he didn't know which, so I forgot. I said, "Oh, that means you will be gone 3 out of the next 4 weeks..." He said yeah and he was po'd about it.
I decided it was good he came by b/c I wanted to talk to him about the papers but as I was getting the kids to bed he left and I didn't have a chance.
Hey BBJ, nice to read you again. Although, I must admit that your posts have me shaking my head in disbelief at times. Dan waltzes right in and waltzes out without any concern for your privacy?
He is going for several weeks and does not wait for you to put the kids to bed? He just leaves?
Is your father aware of his less than "normal" behaviour and the way he has (in your words) disrespected you?
Anyhow, if you still do not want a divorce, I don't see you having him served anytime soon. As far as Dan is concerned he will sign that paper when the cows come home.
Which is why I wanted to talk to him. I was going to give him one more chance to bring the paper back notarized before I had him served.
He does disrespect me but yet I still take the high road and try to do things above-board. He may serve me and blindside me but that isn't something I would normally do. Hence my desire to talk to him about it before doing it. However I will not see him in person until Sunday or Monday of next week.
Yes my parents are aware of most of what he has done (not the part about still being with ow as recently as a month ago, as far as they know that was over last summer). However they know I still love him so they will support whatever I decide to do.
((((((BobbiJo))))))
I think I would be tempted to tell him he has the paperwork back to you by the end of the day Monday, or he will be served before the end of the week. Leave him a voicemail, email, text, whatever. It only takes a few minutes to get the acceptance notarized, he can do it without a lot of time. If he doesn't, then make sure you follow through. He doesn't respect you. Following through like this will perhaps make him realize that he should.
Otherwise, it's another three weeks, and who knows what excuses he will come up with then?
I think in no way would you be blindsiding him. He has the papers, he knows you are going to file and he probably knows that you don't want to. Do the 180 and have him served. He doesn't think you have it in you to look after yourself. Just my .02 cents.
kat
He may serve me and blindside me but that isn't something I would normally do.
Step out of the normal. Stop playing nice with him. What is the point really?
Having him served is above board. You gave him every opportunity to get the danged thing notarized.
As far as the walzing into your house without knocking, calling, waiting at the open door to be invited in....BOUNDARIES. You read Boundaries in M. Have you read just BOUNDARIES? That man doesn't have any. I wonder how he would feel if he had his stupid house fixed finally and was having a quiet evening at home and you just opened the door and walked in like you belong there. Pose that to him BBJ. See what he says. He has no business in your house without your specific invitation. Make it known to him. Let him know what the consequences are if he violates it.
If you truly don't want a D, then just let the whole thing drop. Keep in mind though that you are giving him permission to continue to disrespect you while you spin in the wind 'waiting'. For what, I don't know. Dan isn't going to change without massive amounts of IC and it doesn't look like he's inclined to do that.
My life has fallen down around me before,
-lots of times, for lots of reasons-
usually other people.
And most of the time
I was fortunate enough
To have a large lump of
That life hit me on the
Head and render me numb
To the pain and desolation that followed.
And I survived.
And I live to love again.
But this,
This slow erosion from below
--or within--
It's me falling down around my life
Because you're still in that life
--but not really.
And you're out of that life
--but not quite.
I do alright
alone,
And better
together,
but
I do very poorly
when
semi-
together.
In solitude
I do much,
In love
I do more,
but
in doubt
I only transfer
pain to paper
in gigantic Passion Plays
complete with miracles and martyrs
and crucifixions and resurrections.
Come to stay
or
Stay away
This series of passion poems
is becoming a heavy cross to bare*
*(pun intended)
This came from the book "How to Survive the Loss of a Love", in the section on "Limbo Losses"...of how limbo can be more painful than the death of a relationship...
Haven't bought the book but found it on Amazon and read a few pages on-line. May have to get it.
I am not married. I don't have a husband. I have the father of my children who used to be my husband. As long as I can think this way and act this way and make decisions this way, I can only get better and stronger. I cannot let doubt or fear or disappointment or pitiful hope control me any more.
I need to work when I am at work, play when I am at play, sleep when I should be sleeping, etc. etc. I have carried the monkey on my back too long and it has become some kind of giant ape; if I keep trying to carry it I will get crushed!
Working on true, lasting detachment. So glad he is gone to Canada and going to Asia. Less seen, easier done...
Of course I am disappointed and sad, aren't we all on some level? The big picture is moving forward in a way that is positive for my kids, all things considered. They still think we will be getting back together. And I haven't decided if/when/what to tell them. I suppose nothing until the divorce goes through. Do you actually stop and say, "Hey, kids, we are divorced?" The last we told them was that daddy was moving out but we were going to try and figure out how we could all be together again...
Hey BBJ,
I think the book is right, limbo is more painful than the death of a relationship because it lingers ....
My dad who is 79 and an uneducated Italian immigrant (who never held a self help book in his hands let alone read one) told me way back that what I was going through was like grieving a death. In this case, what complicated matters is that I needed to convince MYSELF that the marriage was dead. Otherwise, I would kill myself....slowly.
At the time I was still hopefull and in the limbo state you find yourself in (incidentally in spite of appearances, I still do not consider myself all the way back to normal....some might call it growth, maybe it is). Actually, we call it limbo but we are really at the mercy of THEIR decision. Until something happens inside and we say F#CK THIS! I do not need this Sh!T anymore, we just float. Later ... much later I had another "Eff this" moment and decided it was time to date and so it goes.
But none of it is possible until you believe that your marriage is dead. That is not easy to do when you have your spouse in your face almost on a daily basis (like I did when I was still at home and to a lesser extent later on).
Today, in order to protect myself, I avoid as much contact as possibe. I also talk to myself on a regular basis and it helps alot to be told that you are a good, a great person by the people around you (including the ex incidentally).
So why am I rambling on....no, not because I had too much vino but because of all the people that I followed on these boards, you BBJ would benefit the most from starting a new life with a normal partner. I also think that your kids would benefit from seeing their mom happy.
I am not saying that your kids will not be or have not been affected by what is going on. I think we can minimize the effects by showing them that we are strong and happy.
So, I feel your pain and I have been there BBJ and as always .... I AM PULLING FOR YOU BBJ!!!
I have been thinking of a scene from Grey' Anatomy, but they happen in most medical shows. Where they are doing CPR but the person on the table is "gone".
But b/c of a promise the doc made, an emotional connection, or something, the doctor keeps trying and trying to revive them. Finally the other people in the OR have to convince him to let it go...
So when I think of turning toward Dan for anything, I remind myself that metaphorically, our M is dead on the table and I need to let it go
oh Bobbi.... I think mine is too sadly... I guess we are only missing my H being out of the house. I am sure that is coming sooner rather than later.... your poem was spot on.... this is killing me too... killing ME... I don't know who I am anymore except a poor deserparte housewive trying anything short of hanging on a chandlier to get her H to love her.....
Anyway I think your feelings are spot on.
Earlier you said that you were taking the "high road". Well it took me way too many years to figure out that there is a huge difference between the "high road" and being a "doormat".
Today I take the "high road" two or three times and then I see myself as a "doormat". I use that math with all my relationships and I'm so much happier. I've lost all the abusive and demanding people that have made my life dramatic and hellish. I really suggest you read the book I recommended.
Was that the "Controlling People" book? I had to go back a thread or two to find the reference...may check it out, too, along with that book where I found the poem from above.
I wound up on IM for about an hour with current match guy. We have IM'd four or five times and sent about that many emails. He is a runner, too. Younger than me, 32 to my 34, never married and no kids. Wants to go running some time next week. Some harmless flirting, nothing major. Fun diversion...
Feeling a little lighter this morning. I am sure it will come in waves as it always does, but I know I have a bright future. Just not sure what that will involve yet. And I have come to realize that Dan will have a hard time being happy, whereas I stand a pretty good chance of that...even if he finds a woman who does give him that "spark", he will always know he walked away from a wife who loved him. He will know he screwed with a lot of people's lives (mine, ow's, our kids, etc). I will know I did the best I could do so it is hard to have too many regrets about that!
Sandycay that poem hit home for me. It is so true. That is what I think I was getting at when I went to the hotel and wrote for hours. I know how to be friends, but not 'just friends', and in limbo I am expected (?) to be that good, convenient friend with no other strings. Just not something I can do right now...maybe down the road when I have a sexy husband at home??
"How to Survive the Loss of a Love",
My C told me to get that book. Haven't yet but you referencing it here is just the kick in the butt I think I needed. Thank you BBJ.
Yes, you will be happy. You know how to be happy. I honestly don't think Dan does. Being happy is not just a state of being, it is learned through our FOO and the people we surround ourselves with. If you surround yourself with people who are perpetually dissatisfied with life, you will be too. How are Dan's friends and family?
Disclaimer: I pulled this off of Thinker's thread. The gender roles were reversed in the book, I changed them to meet my situation. I wonder if the theory still applies...
I have been reading through Stosny's "Love Without Hurt."
I found the whole book to be pretty interesting, but in the Appendix, I found a short gem...
"Unequal Investment of Love"
"...Happens when men marry women they don't really love, but who very much love them...This is a formula for disaster if he's also addicted to blame"
In essence, she loves him. He feels guilty for not loving her as much. His guilt becomes resentment. He blames her for everything and anything to explain away his guilt. His blame and guilt ride him and turn into criticism of her.
Stosny doesn't offer any real solutions except to offer the woman "I guess then you'll have to leave him" and to offer the man the advice to look for and try to heal the real sources of the guilt.It is moot anyway, I know. But he has commented on how he has had these problems with me from the beginning.
And historically, we had big 'rifts' in
1995: After 3 years of dating, he said I felt like an 'obligation', not like he 'wanted' to spend time with me. He broke up w/me but then asked to get back together 6 weeks later when I went back to college for the fall and there was a chance I would be dating other people.
1997: He and I fought a lot as I was in college and he was off in Dallas for his job (he graduated a year before me). He broke off our engagement after I visited him on Spring break but then when I was back at school around other guys again, he wanted us back together. We got married that August after I graduated.
2000: After 2 1/2 yrs of marriage he cheated on me on his February trip to Tokyo with the stripper from Brazil. At one point tried to shift the blame to me as I had put on weight since we got married and he hadn't. (Incidentally we were in our fourth state--Idaho--in 2 1/2 yrs of marriage as he tried to find a job that made him 'happy')He moved to St. Louis 6 weeks later, back to his original job, b/c he didn't like the job in Bois. I stayed behind and worked on me, running, eating right, doing whatever I wanted to do for BBJ. By the time I got to St. Louis in June he wanted me back.
2002: October/November... We were living in Kansas (same job different locale) and he had a 7 week affair with a woman starting when our son was 5 weeks old...
At one point tried to make it partially my fault b/c during the move (while I was 6 months pregnant), I was more focused on finding a house and getting settled then on supporting him in his new position as office manager. I gave him an ultimatum over Thanksgiving that he could not come back to our home (we were in IA visiting family) when we got back. He broke down crying and asked me to take him back...
2007: Two more moves later...Starting early spring he began his PA after starting an EA with ow from his office. Our D was 10 months old at the time it started and 18 months when I busted him...once again I had led him to it because I was not supportive of buying family farm after his Grandma died in Dec. 2006
OK maybe I should just print this out to remind myself why we are getting a divorce???
I guess I wrote this out just for my own reflection. I told myself we had a great relationship most of the time but in hindsight, obv. not...maybe it is more amazing that he stuck around as long as he did if he wasn't really in love with me. And pathetic that I stuck around as long as I did because I really WAS in love with him.
That sure does put it all in perspective.
Have you talked on the phone with runner guy from match.com yet?
I have been emailing a nice (non-asian!) lady with a 7 year old daughter just like mine. We have talked a couple times and I hope we can meet soon.
Bbj,
looking at the history, it reminded me of what I have read many many times: when cheating is a trait, a behaviour, people need A LOT of work to change, if they ever do. You do realise it's his "normal", right?
Make use of the time he is away to calm down and strengthen yourself.
xxx
K
BBJ,
I read your post last night, reread it this morning.....are you a saint? Are you applying for sainthood? Saint BBJ...I am sure you qualify.
I don't know how to say this but perhaps the fact that he has been the only man in your life is what is keeping you from doing what you should do (quite honestly should have done a long long time ago). Are you seeing anyone professionaly BBJ? I think you need to speak to someone....
BBJ that is over a decade of bullsh!t and those are the ladies you know of! That is not normal behaviour...why don't you write a list of Dan's good qualities to try to balance that list so I can understand what this person who says he wants out of the marriage has to offer.....because I do not see it.
I am sorry...you probably do not need to hear this but for some reason that list got to me ...... and I am holding back.....especially when you are hypothesizing that he never really loved you?????
John,
I would like to think that he loved me very much, but was/is just a weak, flawed man. I think it is not so much that he didn't love me, but he didn't love me enough. He knew just how much I loved him, that I loved him unconditionally and always would. And I think he knew he would never have that kind of love for me, the kind that comes with unconditional acceptance, forgiveness, etc etc.
So he is probably doing me a favor, really. If he cannot/will not be the kind of man that a husband should be, then he shouldn't be a husband. Of course, he should have been honest with himself and me years ago if that is the case and saved us all this drama and pain.
The list is just pathetic, isn't it? If I have time later I will try to give you his 'good list' because there is one, or at least there was one.
And the funny thing is, I am not trying to drown myself in the tub, so to speak. I can read that list and not even feel like crying. For some reason, I feel clinical about everything suddenly.
Just the past couple days I feel like some sort of veil has lifted and I see things for what they are,not how I wish they were or hope they were. And I am feeling....ok with that.?. Almost like an outside observer looking back at my life. Weird.
Smile, it's Friday!
{{{BBJ}}}
"Of course, he should have been honest with himself and me years ago if that is the case and saved us all this drama and pain."
Maybe you should have been honest with yourself as well? But..... that was then and this is NOW. I am glad that the clinical side is taking over ... I am sorry BBJ .... really I am.
Don't worry about the list BBJ....my mind was made up a long time ago...with that closet post.....after that, all the other "evidence" is just pilling on.
Hope you have a nice weekend BBJ and take some time for yourself....go out with that guy.....run with him or have a coffee or whatever....it will do you some good.
Big hug again .... :-)
I would like to think that he loved me very much, but was/is just a weak, flawed man. I think it is not so much that he didn't love me, but he didn't love me enough. He knew just how much I loved him, that I loved him unconditionally and always would. And I think he knew he would never have that kind of love for me, the kind that comes with unconditional acceptance, forgiveness, etc etc.
BBJ-Dan has no idea what Love is and he never will..
I'll keep trying with music...
Cherry Holmes-You Don't Know What Love Is
You don't know what love is
You think that it's a toy
A pretty little game played by a girl and boy
You won't talk about it
You don't even care
And you just take for granted I'll always be there
Chorus
You play, you stay away from anything that might be real
You talk and then you walk
I pray someday you'll know how bad it feels
You don't know what love is
You don't know what love is
You think that it's a game
And you don't even think about the pleasure or the pain
Answers to the questions
You don't stop to find
And it doesn't really matter what you leave behind
Chorus
You don't know what love is
You don't know what love is
John-- Ouch! But true...I am stubborn/willful and believe in 'ever after' so I refused to believe we were 'done' despite things H did. Putting them in chronological order in black/white put things in perspective. He pretended he could commit and I pretended I believed he could, to a certain extent...
Mike--Good song, once again. Don't I get points for at least acknowledging that my M is gone, and still choosing to be positive??
((((((BobbiJo))))))
You get points for being BBJ! You are doing, and have done, what you thought was right, at every juncture. You have shown forgiveness, love, compassion....
And still, he has rejected you. I know it's been said before, but he is broken. Looking at it in black and white, he is very broken, and has been for a long time. He didn't know how to love you, and never wanted to find out. On top of being weak and flawed, like the rest of us, he was selfish.
Get him served, and move forward with your life! In a dream, he would wake up. The evidence would suggest that in real life, not so much.
Mike--Good song, once again. Don't I get points for at least acknowledging that my M is gone, and still choosing to be positive??
Gosh, you mean they give points for this??
I think you get points for being able to move forward.
I think you get points if you can get through this with your sanity intact.
I think you get points if your kids get through this OK..
I think you get points when you detach..
I'm still trying to figure out what to do with all my points..i'm hoping someone will open a store somewhere where I can trade all my points in like
S&H Green Stampsthat's an old school reference...anybody remember S&H Green stamps??
I remember those. Wow, that has been a while since those have been around. Oooppss, I am dating myself here, but since I have my age listed I guess it doesn't matter. lol
kat
I rememeber the laundry detergent that came with glasses, dishes or towels inside. Kind of like cracker jack for adults.
And I live in Oregon where, when a baby is born, the doctor slaps their bottom and says "No self-serve gas and no sales tax".
And getting glasses at the gas station! While they pumped your gas!
I visited Oregon a while ago, was totally thrown by the lack of a self serve island!
The last time we had a vote for self serve gas, the anti-self serve commercial was hilarious showing a woman accidently drenching herself with gas.
OMG! No self-service gas in Oregon???? I think New Jersey is like that too. Dang! I'm from the land where I think they invented self-serve (CA) and live where people don't EVER get out of their cars at the bank. Still makes me laugh when I see people waiting in lines 6-7 cars deep in the drive-thru bank instead of walking inside where there is no one waiting.
BBJ - That list flabbergasted me! I knew about the stripper in Tokyo and his latest but I wasn't aware of the 7 week one right after you had given birth. Good GOD almighty! What a completely selfish bast!rd.
You loved him, undeservedly, but you did and still do. Now just love you and the kids. Dan has done nothing to deserve you and honestly you will be better without his lack of love and caring in your daily life.
Think how far you have come in this journey. You will be absolutely fine BBJ! Better than fine....AMAZING! And go see a C ASAP
Hey Ms. BBJ...
This is emotional chaos where nothing makes sense. Keeping yourself open to the marriage makes you feel that you have to keep everything else available, too. Even when it makes you feel icky.
First things first.
Do things that are healthy for YOU, mentally, physically, emotionally. This is about YOU, not him. Entering or continuing a relationship when it's all about the other and you're not whole is a recipe for disaster.
What difficulties do you have? Based on what I've read his dropping over unannounced, singularly deciding what's the best way to deal with your son's sadness, etc. That's where your BOUNDARIES come in, like mishka pointed out.
He left the house, the home, the marriage. He has his own place he's playing Lego's with. You are in YOUR home, YOUR house. I set a boundary with my former spouse during the divorce that he had to ring the doorbell and wait to be let in. That he was not allowed in the house unless I was there. It was hard.. BUT.. it made my house a sanctuary, MY safe place. An unannounced appearance by your spouse should not mean that invited guests have to leave. If he's there, let him take the kids out for ice cream. Your sanctuary is no longer his home. He has to feel the consequences of his actions. You need to feel that you have choices, that you can be safe.
Right now your history together is muddied. Trying to understand and be validated is just beating a dead horse. In a perfect world, he would have be able to communicate what was amiss as would you. We are all flawed. We all get to this place together. What we do when the fabric is ripped defines how we move forward through life.
This is an amazing opportunity for growth. Not by dissecting the past, because it's over. Focus on who you are in the here and now. What seems right, wrong. Act on it. You have a voice. You are wonderful.
Here's how I make decisions:
If it seems great, the answer is yes.
If it seems wrong, the answer is no.
If I waffle or can't make a decision, the answer is no.
Standing in the light of who you are is a wonderful thing. You're great. You're loving. Focus on what's healthy for YOU.. and the rest will fall in place.
*hugs*
Hey BBJ,
Seeing your history with H laid out in black and white has really hit home with me. There are many similarities including broken engagement, multiple affairs, several job changes and moves all over the country, dissatisfaction with life, blaming me for his unhappiness, wanting me/not wanting me throughout our R, etc. Ouch!!! Really hurts to lay it all out.
I think you are handling things the right way. Your H has to be willing to work through his issues before the two of you could ever have a healthy R. Although my H and I are Piecing it has been very difficult because H is unwilling to really deal with his/our issues. Until that happens we will never move forward.
Thanks for coming by, Gypsy and Addie! I appreciate the feedback, it is always good to have...
H gets back tomorrow afternoon, I haven't really thought much about him the past few days which is a good thing. If he were to stay gone another few weeks I wouldn't really mind except I know my kids would.
Speaking of kids, my Nathan (7) is running a fever but with no other symptoms. It got as high as 103 but the ask-a-nurse on the phone said without other symptoms we shouldn't bring him in unless it was 105!! Hate it when they get sick on the weekend.
Been pretty uneventful otherwise. I chatted with Match guy via IM for about an hour yesterday. Then tonight the kids went to my parents' for the evening as it had already been planned and Nathan was eating and playing and acting fine other than the fever. We IM'ed again for probably 90 minutes, then he asked if he could call me. I gave him my cell # because it is listed in my BIL's name as we are on the family plan, so the address and other info are under him in a town 150 miles from here. He said he was going out to watch the end of the Iowa game (GO HAWKEYES for pulling out a win at the last minute!).
Anyway he called me at 10:30 but I didn't hear the phone, I noticed at 11 that he left a vm so I called him back and we talked until a little after 1. So about 3 1/2 hours of chatting today. Lots of fun, not like anything serious but nice to talk to a guy again.
It is funny but I find myself 'db-ing' him, when we IM I find a reason to stop it before he does and on the phone I tried a few times to get off before I finally told him I would talk to him another time...
Still up at 3 am folding laundry. That is why my parents initially offered for my kids to come over, so I could catch up on housework. I am behind on a lot with Dan being gone so long and me the one doing everything with the kids. Better go finish so I can get some sleep before church tomorrow.
((((((BobbiJo))))))
Sorry to hear about your little guy! I just heard that my "little" one, who played two soccer games yesterday, and was supposed to play at least one today, is at 101.3 and feeling rotten. We are trying to figure out who is going to stay home with him tomorrow.
I liked reading a post from you where Dan was just a side issue! That was refreshing!
Guys on the fever with no symptoms front, D8 and I spent last Sunday at the Children's hospital ER....after two urine samples, a urinary tract infection was diagnosed and she is on antibiotics. No other symptoms other than high fever.....
On the news here, it said US are on alert because of "thousands of deaths due to swine flu". Is that true guys? You never seem to talk about it while here, we are all going crazy about this flu...
Hope Nathan is feeling better soon.
How did the match guy sound? Voice?
K
Nathan still running fever (103 F) so I am going to get him from my parents. Hospital said not to bring him in unless it reached 105??? unless he develops other symptoms. They did say that with the flu they often have the fever first and develop other symptoms 24 hours later...
John I will think about what you said re. D8, that is good info to have.
K I haven't known of anyone dying from it but we had 20% absent from school a couple days last week with it. Haven't been able to get the vaccine although some reports say it wouldn't matter anyway now that it is so widespread...
Re. Match guy, he had a nice deep voice. Not what I expected from his photo (he is 5'11, good but not a real big guy), a pleasant surprise. He already texted this morning to see if I slept well.
Actually kind of funny b/c I got alternating texts from him and from Dan and I had to make sure I was replying to the right guy.
This detachment thing is......nice. Dan has texted a few times this morning, he clearly doesn't know things have changed around here yet...asking me what our plans are for the afternoon, etc. I am keeping him updated on Nathan but nothing more.
Just so you know, so far in 2009 there have been in excess of 27000 case type A flu (swine flu is a sub-type). Exactly 57 deaths in children this year. Did not find stats for adult deaths on the CDC website. Re: fever, even 105 isn't necessarily dangerous, just very uncomfortable. Big thing is with temp it is easy for kids to get dehydrated and can mask other symptoms. Most of the deaths have been very young children (less than 2) or people with complicating medical problems. Biggest complication is pneumonia.
Well, our news here love to scare people. I guess they are trying to cultivate fear...
Same here -Greece- a lot of people get it but it goes away as any other type of flu. Only people with conditions are threatened by it and mo stly by pneumonia.
If Dan only knew...
K
I am keeping an eye on Nathan because of his asthma and allergies. Don't want him getting pneumonia.
Yeah, if Dan only knew...
A few more flirty texts this morning. Always good for the PMA! It is
so nice to be drama-free....
Hmmm....
match guy worked until 8 tonight...started texting at 8:45. Too funny b/c Dan was actually at the house checking on Nathan. I felt like the shoe was on the other foot. There I am texting on the couch to another guy when he was 6 feet away. Wonder how many times that happened to me? Only I don't have to feel bad b/c I wasn't the one doing it while we were living together and supposedly committed.
After a few texts I just turned the ringer off, don't know what Dan thought but it was funny to me. Picked up later in the evening and wound up having a very nice convo. for a little over an hour after the kids were in bed...he thinks I have a sexy sounding voice...again, not bad for the pma
Don't worry I am not getting attached. After 17 years of one guy it is going to be fun to flirt and enjoy myself without committing to anything.
Going to be home from school tomorrow as Nathan still had fever (101) when he went to bed...glad teachers get a ton of comp. days! He said he felt just fine but the rule is 24 hours fever-free before you can go back to classes.
All in all a pretty good weekend other than Nathan getting sick. He really didn't act all that sick, just ran the stupid fever. Sydney had friends from all over the neighborhood come and rake leaves for her so she could jump in them with the big kids. A neighbor girl (13) wants to be our babysitter so she comes and plays with Sydney. Was nice today since Nathan couldn't play and I was in watching him, but she could still go out and play with her friends in the front yard. Social butterfly, that girl!
Funny all the other times I
thought I was detached, I would find myself thinking, "What could I do to show Dan that I have let go"....
But lately, I don't want to show him anything. At all. Maybe that is the point of actual detachment? I don't have to prove anything to him, because it really doesn't matter so much. Kind of want to live and let live, you do your thing, I'll do mine.
He had to go to Wichita today until tomorrow night. Funny it didn't occur to me until just as I typed this that K.C. is on the way to Wichita...and I really could care less! Anyway he got back yesterday, left again this morning, gets back Tuesday night and then leaves again Sunday. I feel bad for the kids but it doesn't bother me personally...
Home with Nathan today. His temp is better, 100.8. He still doesn't want to eat anything which is a problem but at least he is drinking! Dan called to check on him and I was short on words I guess (just the facts) and he sounded a little annoyed.
Said something about when we would carve pumpkins. I told him he was the carving expert, he could do it Wednesday. He pointed out that WE couldn't do it Wednesday b/c I had night class. I told him he could handle it without me...again he sounded a little irritated. Oh well, not my problem. I want to be there for trick or treating but I really don't mind missing out on carving pumpkins. I took them to pick them out so I had my fun!
OK off to finish cleaning. Doing my best to clean all surfaces in the house today, change the sheets, etc etc. Probably too late as I am developing a cough
Sorry Nathan is still running that low grade fever. Yuck! So Dan is annoyed that you are just giving him the facts about Nathan's illness? Well, too bad. What, does he expect banter from his STBXW? He wanted this, he's got it. He doesn't have the priveledge of maintaining a friendship with you because he hasn't been a friend, pure and simple.
I'm right proud of you for sticking to your guns and telling him HE could carve the pumpkins. Good job!
Nathan home again today, fourth day with a fever. Leaving in five minutes for the doctor. Just to be nice I texted Dan this morning "Home again, 103.5 in the night"...
His reply? "Great"
Yes, this is yet another thing for him to be unhappy about...
In other news I traded a few texts with MG (matchguy) yesterday morning and then he asked if he could call me last night. Talked again for about an hour. Hopefully if schedules align we will be meeting up next week. I think I almost DB him to a certain extent. I never text first and have never called him. However I am still persuing the sight and finding some more cute guys to consider...I have
no desire to go from one long-term relationship immediately into another one!
OK off to the doc...
Of the regular variety or they piggy kind?
Which flu Bobbi? Hope it goes away fast. Hugs to your baby.
K
He didn't come out and say but he indicated probably swine...it isn't that severe, mostly just the fever, probably b/c he got a regular flu shot so he was partially protected. Meanwhile I am getting a cough and tightness in my chest...bummer! Actually my boy feels pretty good, surprisingly!
(((((BobbiJo)))))
Hope you don't get too sick! I agree, this early in the season, probably H1N1. I think all four of my kids have had it. With the last being the little one. So far I've been lucky, with the timing of things, I haven't been exposed, I think. Or WalBorne works. Been guzzling the stuff!
OMG, Ali has it too!!!
Stay safe
K
Peruse awy BBJ...we call it the buffet!
Hope things go well for you guys healthwise.
Dont pass on the piggy flu to new jogger dream boat guy.
Don't worry Kerry, unless you can get it thru texting or calling each other, that won't happen. Haven't gotten schedules aligned yet. No promises once that happens though...
And I like your use of the word dreamboat, haven't heard that in awhile.
Need to step up the babysitter search once Nathan is well again, b/c Dan is definitely not carrying his weight on time with the kids! He has seen them one day out of the past eight and leaves Sunday for 12 more days...it's his loss really but still I would like to build up my social life!
It is a little exciting when you realize that there are people that would actually like to spend time with you, isn't it!
What's the status of the papers. Has Dan had them notarized yet?
Grr....don't even get me started!
I had asked him about them three times and no results. While he was in Canada last week I told him he had this week to get it done or I would have him served. [He was in Canada all last week, got back Sunday, and leaves for Asia this coming Sunday. So he had a week basically.]
He said no problem, he would get them signed this week. Of course, once he got here Sunday he told me that Boss Man told him he had to go to Wichita...he acted pissed about going, whatever. So he left Monday morning and gets back sometime tonight. There goes Monday and Tuesday for getting a notary...he has 2 more days.
Evil thought...my dad is a notary. He is an office manager for a Toyota dealership that is conveniently about 1/4 mile from Dan's office. Instead of sending the sheriff, I might just send my dad.
I like it... but I don't know if that means it is a good idea. I just don't think much of Dan.....
(((((BobbiJo)))))
OMG BBJ! Just send the sheriff....post haste!
OMG BBJ! Just send the sheriff....post haste!
What...you don't think my dad should do it?
I floated that one by him tonight, actually, when he came to see the kids. He looked all uncomfortable and said, "I will get it taken care of tomorrow." I said "Hmmm, my dad would be a little awkward then?" And he said "Yeah, I would think so..." So hopefully he will take care of it tomorrow!
Nathan was still running a fever (100-101) when he went to bed so I don't know what tomorrow will bring.
Meanwhile MG texted again today a couple times and asked if he could call me again tonight. I told him I was going out but might be around later...never want to seem too available!
Good job on the MG! DB him!!!
Definitely not your dad, for your dad's sake, not Dan's. Dan deserves to be as uncomfortable as possible!
Your poor baby. I feel so bad for him. You said he feels ok though? That fever isn't making him all ragdoll like?
Whats the over/under on Dan getting that acknowlegement of receipt signed and notarized tomorrow?
Truck has got a difficult to change burned out headlight.
A friend's cow had a...well a cow.
That darn jerk boss was keeping me too busy.
I finally decided to think about talking with the Pastor.
yadda, yadda, yadda...
My money is not on Dan. I'd like to be wrong.
sorry didn't mean to strike a nerve... well okay you got me, yes I did. {wink}
Hey BBJ,
just checking in on you... I see Nathan is still under the weather, hope he is fever free today.
Okay, getting something notarized takes about 10 minutes at any bank or a hundred other places.
I agree to not involve your dad. That's bad mojo for him and maybe a conflict of interest, but maybe the threat will be enough to spurn Dan on to do it.
We will see today wont' we. He doesn't want you but I don't think he wants anyone else to want you either thus doesn't want to let you go....hhhmmmm sounding vaguely like me LOL
Anyway, like your attitude about MG, dont' want him to think your some desperate housewive sitting at home waiting to be rescued!
hell..I'll go against the grain..I'd send dad...lines in the sand will be drawn anyway once this gets underway proper...in the big scheme of things what's it matter anyway??
hell..I'll go against the grain..I'd send dad...lines in the sand will be drawn anyway once this gets underway proper...in the big scheme of things what's it matter anyway??
Oh Mikey, when haven't you gone against the grain?
That's what I love about ya! I am still keeping that option open...
Just checked my email, got one from my attorney. Won't be as painless as I thought...we wrote up our agreement of who gets what. But, they want us to attach a valuation to each item to make sure it is an 'equitable distribution'...
I figure as long as we don't care, why should they? Oh well....whatever it takes is what we will do.
And........................I think I have a date for Monday night.
Give me an idea what is planned for first meeting. I usually like to suggest a walk in a park as sitting down face to face for coffee on a first meeting feels weird.
And if you dont call it a date, but just an introduction, that tends to take some of the tension off. But no matter how you slice it is a bit awkward.
Wooooo, a date!!!!
Ok, now I will get in trouble....you know where I stand on you moving on BBJ (aka you can do better / deserve better / yada yada yada).....but, this may be a tad quick. But hey, as long as you keep it fun don't get too "involved".
The reason why I say this BBJ is I know this bullsh!t has been going on too long with Dan. However, you just recently decided to file...I think you still would take him back in a flash if he would ask. So, on one end I am very happy that you have a date and on another (yes the negative John is rearing his ugly head) I have an uneasy feeling. I am sorry i just can not put it into words. Again keep it fun and like you said earlier don't go from one long term to another too quickly.
Remember I sampled quite a bit before landing on a lady I really like and sometimes I think I went a little fast....
bottom line is have fun!
Ok, John first...
At this point I don't think I would take him back "in a flash". I know signs point to "yes she would!" given my track record, but I am (finally) learning. It would take a lot of effort on his part to be the man I want/need him to be. So even if he were interested I wouldn't consider anything until there were a series of observable actions to go along with words. Besides I really don't expect him to try again at this point. I think when he said he didn't have that 'spark' for me in his email, he was finally telling the truth...
Also, as I said I don't intend to roll in to another serious relationship. And MG does not seem interested in that either. We both just want to go out and have a good time...
Second, Kerry...
I mis-spoke in calling it a date, I suppose. We didn't call it a date, we have just been trying to find a time to 'get together'. We talked again for about 45 minutes last night and it is clear that he is a busy guy just as I am a busy girl. Which is why he have talked for almost 10 hours already and not even seen each other in person!
He came up with the idea for the evening based on our conversations. He said it was pretty apparent that I am a competitive person
so he suggested meeting up to play some darts and have a beverage or two. So it isn't the pressure of a sit-down dinner, nor is it a movie or other arena where you can't talk to each other. Plus Monday being a work night, I will have to get home fairly early so no worries about ending the evening, either. I think it will be fun!
I continue to peruse the match website and my cousin who is a good friend, too, said she has some nice guy friends at work, she just didn't know I was thinking about getting 'out there' yet... So my options are definitely open.
I will John....and speaking of sampling the buffet, a guy I was perusing last night (but did not contact) just emailed me to say he was interested, what a coincidence!
i dont understand the coincidence....don't forget that on some of these sites, you can access who has looked at your profile. I consider myself to be quite well versed on the on-line dating "scene"....so don't be afraid to ask!
I know you can see if someone looks at your profile...
I didn't look at his profile, but his name/picture popped up under my "5 Daily Matches"...where you mark if you are/are not interested in the person. Does that show up as having viewed their profile? I know that I never got anything that said someone was interested in me based on the "Daily 5"...oh well.
Coincidence or not, it is nice! Thanks for being my dating coach!
You and Kerry can provide me with the guy's perspective. On that note, was planning to wear a nice top, dressier jeans, and boots (not cowboy boots, just cute high-heeled boots). I would think jeans are appropriate for going out to play darts?! Granted this is my first 'not a date' in almost 15 years....
Go with a pair of high heel sneakers (and the referee dress)...
http://www.mydivascloset.com/noname217.htmlI like the 5 daily matches, however, I wish there was a way to control more of the criteria that they use for picking.
BBJ, just be yourself....you will be fine. And if for some reason he is not interested, well you go back to the drawing board or in this case the computer.
Kerry, you worry me sometimes!
BBJ, just be yourself....you will be fine. And if for some reason he is not interested, well you go back to the drawing board or in this case the computer.
Agreed, John! Jeans it is...I am never again going to try to change myself for someone else. Granted, everyone has to make some compromises, but not core-level changes. For example, no matter how cute the guy, I will never go to a death-metal concert or a mixed-martial-arts bout.
Ah now, don't knock the death-metal. You wouldn't believe how entertaining Slipknot is in person!
Ah now, don't knock the death-metal. You wouldn't believe how entertaining Slipknot is in person!
Trust me, Mish... Slipknot is from Iowa, you know! They actually formed in Des Moines while I was in college, only 40 miles from there. Heard them in their infancy before they had an album out but it was not my thing...
GRR!! Kerry wins the bet, NO paperwork tonight.
Seems he spent half the day running around trying to find a place to get the flu shot before he leaves for his trip. Duh, you can actually get a minor case of the flu from the shot. Besides, he leaves in four days. What's the point?? He was actually wearing a mask when I got home from night class, because Nathan has the flu. Geez...
Oh, and Nathan is not out of the woods. According to Dan his eyes are super itchy and watery and he complained of extreme pain in his ear every time he blew his nose...possibly an ear infection on top of the flu?? I went in and felt him in bed and he felt warm...
On the bright side, 1)MG wants to call me later to firm up plans for Monday, and I actually found a sitter! (not including my parents or in-laws in the get-together plans!!) and 2)Potential Match guy apparently added me to his 'favorites' list...
And you are calling the sheriff in the morning to serve his sorry a$$, right???????????????
HA! I didn't know Slipknot is from Iowa. Gees, where do you get all that anger surounded by corn? Or is it because of the corn?
Sorry, couldn't resist.
MG sounds very interesting.
Sorry about Nathan. What kind of meds do they have him on? He is taking tylenol along with any antibiotics, right?
Boy, I hope he gets sick!
BBJ - are you sure your son and mine are not related some how? Mine went throught quite a few ear infections also and one time he had pneumonia. You need to get him in to see a doctor tomorrow.
I am sorry about being right about the king of procrastinators. It is pretty funny about him wearing a mask. I bet he had contact with things Nathan touched though. I remember what they do in the asian airports - they take your temperature before allowing you to proceed to your gate. I wonder what they do if your temperature is too high and in a connecting airport.
Welcome to Asia, Sick American Dude!
I should probably not butt in here but I really feel compelled to say this.
BBJ have you considered Divorce Care for yourself? You have healing to do and starting new opposite sex relationships (even platonic friendships) is not in your best interest right now.
I know it feels good to have someone pay attention to you and to have something to look forward to, but we all know that "what feels good" is not necessarily the right thing to do. Isn't that what our WAS have always done?
Please, I urge you to re-consider the dating (even the dating websites) right now.
I know this post will not be popular and that is okay... ignore it or slam away. I can take it.
MsIn, this is not a popularity contest. You are allowed to your opinion. I tend to agree on the "too soon" on one end (I even intimated that a few pages ago), however, in this case I actually believe that BBJ needs some feel good time, with all she has been through. As long as she remains in the platonic / get out and meet people and does not get too involved, she will be fine. If you read her history and that of Dan, the sooner she gets away from his tentacles the better (in my opinion). If darts and a few libations help....hallelujah.....again just my opinion.
Go with a pair of high heel sneakers (and the referee dress)...
http://www.mydivascloset.com/noname217.htmlI like the 5 daily matches, however, I wish there was a way to control more of the criteria that they use for picking.
good lord Kerry...everyone knows that BBJ should only wear those when meeting a new guy to play basketball..
If darts and a few libations help....hallelujah.....again just my opinion.
if either BBJ or MG consider throwing darts and a few beers a date..then I went way overboard on my dates and spent way, way, way to much money.....
I would think that darts, beer would be considered...just a meet and greet...lol
Oh, I love you guys!
Mike, your comment on the shoes Kerry suggested was hysterical!
Yeah, the plan is to meet at an "English-pub-style" bar/grill where they have pool, darts, and shuffleboard. Play a few different games. Nothing major.
I would never sleep with a guy if I wasn't sure he was someone I wanted to spend a long, long time with. Heck I made Dan wait over 2 years! I am older now and probably wouldn't wait that long, but still...
This is my first 'meet and greet' out of the gate, so I am not putting too much stock into it. Just hang out have fun see what happens...
Yeah, the plan is to meet at an "English-pub-style" bar/grill where they have pool, darts, and shuffleboard. Play a few different games. Nothing major.
my type of place..while you're meeting and greeting him..just go ahead and kick his ass at all the games..
just to let him know what he is dealing with..
No problem Mikey I already told him to prepare to have his azzzz kicked...I might be a little competitive along with being stubborn...
I would never sleep with a guy if I wasn't sure he was someone I wanted to spend a long, long time with.
Hmmm maybe you waited 2 years then because you were 16(?) and innocent and sex was kind of...forbidden?
Between adults things are different Bbj. Of course sleeping around for fun isnt your thing but I have this gut feeling, you will see, time is a relevant thing. And heck yes!! Women can have sex without expecting a marriage proposal to go with it... I think.
Basic Rule: dont do anything you will not feel good about the next morning. Even if that is a kiss.
K
Does this guy play golf?? If so maybe you can help him work on his chipping??
Can we turn this thread into a discussion about golf?
Bobbi Jo - what is the weakest part of your game?
Does this guy play golf?? If so maybe you can help him work on his chipping??
When? Next spring?
who says u can't have a meet and greet at the local golf course next to the putting green??
here in the south we play all year..If it's above 40* it's on...
Mike--nice!
He actually
does golf and was just discussing his woods the other night.
Kerry, the weakest part of my game is my second shot. Driving is ok, chipping is great, putting is average. But the second shot turns into the third, fourth, and fifth shot before I get to chip!
Kalni, you are right, I was 16 1/2 when we started dating and we slept together shortly after I turned 19. My mom pretty much said you were the lowest form of slut if you had sex before marriage. She also got married at 19...I told her I waited till we got married and she pretended to believe me!
I am not opposed to it, I just don't want to do it immediately. If I started sleeping with someeone I would not be ok with either of us dating anyone else and I am not ready for a commitment. Although, it is hard to play armchair quarterback this early in the game...
The dreaded second shot....
Make the second shot with your head. Don't grab the longest club you can hit, if it isn't getting there anyway. Two seven irons are better than a 4 iron, two wedges out of the woods, a seven iron and a pitch!
Mike--nice! He actually does golf and was just discussing his woods the other night.
Ahhh yes...most good golfers like to brag about their big Driver!!!
Ahhh yes...most good golfers like to brag about their big Driver!!!
Glad to see that my mind was't the only one that went that direction!
Not knowing any golf lingo, it was impossible for me to put into words that didn't sound completely CRUDE!
There are some more naughty puns I could make, but I won't...
Naturally my woods comment was purely intentional, I am a good girl but I am not a saint after all!
Good news--Nathan is fever free!!! He really wants to go to school tomorrow because it is Halloween Party Day. He seems to be on the mend, he is playing legos and watching cartoons and he is actually hungry finally!
Take a couple practice divots before that second shot. Then step up and repeat what you just practiced.
Dont forget to repair your divots. And the green pitch-marks.
So are we talking about golf here or something else? Because if it's about golf, I've got a putter that seems to have lost it's touch and can't find....oh, never mind!
If it is a sin to say golf is a stupid game, then what is it to use sexual innuendo with golf terms?
I really need to get my balls cleaned.
(((((BobbiJo)))))
I'm glad to hear Nathan is mending! It sounds like S11 is going to school tomorrow, too!
If it is a sin to say golf is a stupid game, then what is it to use sexual innuendo with golf terms?
I really need to get my balls cleaned.
everyone knows that you drive for show and putt for dough!!
It's not how you drive but how you arrive...it's what you do around the hole that counts!!
Kerry it sounds like you need to be doing a search for a good caddie..
I wonder if it is easy to find a caddie with 2 X chromosomes.
Hey Bobbi! I'm glad Nathan is better.. maybe I didnt have swine flu afterall because I was very hungry some nights. The doctor said he was certain it was, but then, who knows!? Do they swab you in the US if they think you have it? They dont here, he did this wierd plueretic spring ribcage test thing as he put it, which hurt alot. Jeff, glad your sons ok too!
I was reading along and wow you have chatted to that guy ALOT! Good for you,
Al xxx
OMG....the golf terms and innuendo have my head spinning!
BBJ, so glad that Nathan is feeling better. What is he dressing as for Halloween? How about Sid?