I have jumped around a bit, posted a few times, commented more times. So I am moving over to this forum more as a journal than anything since my previous posts were never really followed by anybody.
Synopsis-Moved in 2006 and wife began affair with a woman...told it was only a "friendship" Knew something was up, but just didn't catch on.
January 2008-Wife returns home with hicky on neck from night at bar and I get truth about relationship. Get the usually lines that don't need repeating. Wife begins to life at GF's on weekends and does little or nothing with family. Frequent partying, etc...I become single parent.
February 2009- After incident with children (extremely bad) wife moves out of house because she can't cope with children. Moves in with GF temporarily and develops friendship with guy friend. Two weeks later calls to tell me she is coming home that evening. GF and her go out drinking that evening and have fight...while driving home fight continues, GF verbally assaults wife, then hits wife, wife jumps out of moving vehicle and smashes head on ground. Wife calls guy friend, but he doesn't help. GF calls me to say my wife won't be coming home and doesn't mention incident. Wife calls me at 5am, tells me story, asks me to pick her up and take her to hospital.
Feb-to now-Wife continues to party with guy friend because she doesn't want to be home..to boring..not enough fun...she doesn't want to be a wife or mother. Starts to include dining out, constant IM'ing, motorcycle rides, and frequent visits to the bars (usually 3-4 times a week). At times it seems like our relationship is on a roller coaster, then she goes on binge time from home, I blow up from stress, fatigue, etc and confront her...about once a month.
Saturday night- (her schedule leading up to this-thursday-work all day then go out to 12 and return home drunk, Friday-Work until 6, grab dinner, out at bars until 1:30, Saturday-sit around doing nothing until 1, go to movies, go out drinking until 2-all activities with guy friend). Upon returning..I am still up with fiberglass itch (installed insulation with friend), stressed about new business, finances, no me time, and being with children non-stop (kids are well behaved, but I haven't had a real kid break in 2 years). I tell her I am stressed about money and work. Tell her that she is having an EA with guy friend even if it isn't physical. She doesn't say boo...and just looks at me like I am nuts and have no right talking to her. I get in car and go for 4 hour drive.
She is currently trying to save up enough money to get an apartment. This month was bad for my company, so she had to use "her" money to cover the mortgage. I got a quick comment about her having to use "her" money to cover the mortgage. She is still pissed from Saturday. Big backslide on my part...but I am just so sick of this now. It has been 2.5 years of crap and with all this other stress...it just overwhelms me.
Me-Lost my job in December of 2008 and instead of going on unemployment started my own company. The company is actually doing excellent in this economy considering it is brand new. That said, it is also not doing good enough to cover the bills and I didn't start the company with a lot in savings (wasn't planning on losing my job). Have a ton of potential clients, but either they don't have work or can't get money from the banks to start projects. So trying to get by.
I am very stressed, but it comes out only towards my wife. Between taking care of the kids by myself, taking care of the house by myself, being lonely, and the new business....I am tired. So I get no help and become resentful when I see this person partying non-stop. The downfall is when I do something on my own...the price I pay when I return isn't worth it. Returning to stressed out kids and a pissy wife isn't fun.
Done a bunch of gal'ing and 180's which is good. For the most part I am successful at living "as if", but occasionally I get sick of it. Whether she moves out or not, I will still be doing the same things. It almost makes it worse that she is here, because I get reminded that she wants nothing to do with us or the house. At least if she isn't here, I won't be reminded that drinking and partying are her priorities now and not the children or house.
So I am here because I know she will move out soon and this seems the right place to be,
sorry to hear about your situation.
Continure to gal, the 180's are good for you regardless. Has she even noticed?
HI there:
What do you want?
Wow - sorry you're in such a bad way. It seems like your W has no cares at all about you or your kids and isn't hiding her irresponsible behavior. I'm with Lola - what is that you want? How old are the kids and how long have you been married?
S4H
I am sorry. I am sorry you are in themiddle of all this. How about endind this? How about changing your attitude and get more...tough? It is what lola and s4h said. What do you want? Do you still love her?
Keep posting, it helps,
Stay strong
K
What do I want? The possibility of reconciliation without the expectation. I see our relationship deteriorating farther and farther as she continues to do her thing without respect or regards of others...hence I last for awhile then confront her further deteriorating the relationship. I also want a place to vent to people who KNOW how it feels to be in this situation. My friends are the polar opposite of hers. Mine think she is scum and for the most part worthless. Don't understand why she is doing what she is doing in regards to the children, house, or me. They just don't grasp it at all.
So with my friends, there is no place to vent for the most part. At least not on a daily basis. They really don't want to hear about it because they think I should have thrown her out long. The one person I do talk to (a successful db'er) is in another state, so that daily vent really isn't there. I need a place to vent my frustration so it doesn't buildup and blast out. I think you can all relate to that.
I do love her...but love only goes so far. As far as getting tough...she can't handle a relationship discussion she brings on never mind boundaries. We went to the same therapist for awhile and I discussed boundaries with the therapist. We both agreed that boundaries in my situation are counter productive. My wife is extremely non-confrontational and just withdraws from discussions and shuts down. From there she will respect no-boundaries because she knows there is no-way to enforce them or makes life miserable for all if I try. Example-I have gone 4-5 times on my own since this started (without children). Each time I come home to children doing whatever they want with little or no supervision and her pissed off. It isn't worth it because I have to deal with her attitude and out of control kids. Can try to ignore it, but we live in the same small house and it is hard to ignore though I have tried. Hence her leaving is the best option. It would just be easier if she wasn't here.
My children are D7 and S10 (married 11 years (skipped last anniversary which sucked)). I think they know something is amiss, but don't get what is up. My wife is gone so much that I think they have become accustomed to her not being here. So much that when they leave for school in the mornings they don't even say bye to her. Very rarely will they go to her for anything unless I am not here including even girlie things for my daughter. The latest thing my wife has been doing is not going to the kids beds at night before bed. They will ask and she might give a hug downstairs, but otherwise she will say no and continue to spend time on the computer. Also if you are wondering, they have asked her to stay home and spend time with them instead of going out. Each time she said "no" and the children have stopped asking.
For GAL'ing and 180's, let me hit them before I answer that one;
1)-Got in shape-I have lost close to 80 pounds and am back at my college weight...working on getting more toned at the moment (I am a big guy 6'4" tall about 245 at the moment...lots of muscles)
2) Goes with above, but got to the point were I could run a sub 30 minute 5K
3)Got more involved with kids lives-I now coach my daughters soccer team, take her to dance and I am involved with handling all of that, do the doctor thing, do homework with them, go hiking, picnics, movies, jeep rides, etc
4) Do everything in the house Cooking, cleaning, shopping...not a 180, but definitely a huge change
5)Made new friends-I worked a lot so made few friends down here. Now I have friends with children which is a bonus for me. The one problem is my wife finds them suffocating and doesn't want them around when she is.
6)started my own business
7)Worked less at old job-When this all started I used to regularly work 60-70 hours a week (salary position so no financial benefit). Then told employer that I was only going to work 40-45 hours a week (they weren't happy about that)
8)reconnected with old college and high school friends
9)stopped trying to do things for her-Like get her a sweater if she was cold, etc. Things a husband would do
10)Bought new clothes-New body...new clothes...yippee
There is more...but I am excited about my new one if I can afford it. I want to take a hip-hop dance class...lol.
Well I am sorry you are here, and please feel free to vent.
I am going to say this: I don't agree with your therapist.
Let me put it this way: db'ing is not a guarantee, but part of it is about respect for self. I have seen others in your situation who have let the W walk all over them, and although they set boundaries, they don't follow through. Do not become this statistic.
Now, that being said, by no means am I telling you that you should give up. But you do need to take a step back. Do not allow your W to just cake eat. That is not fair to you, nor is it fair to your children, to allow her to completely control the entire situation and do whatever she wants. If she wants that kind of life, she needs to find it, but not in the house. Neither you nor the children need to be subjected to that behavior.
If you let her continue to ignore boundaries and use the excuse that it is not receptive, she will take full advantage of you and your kindness. If you show her you have enough self ocnfidence to know that you are better, she may be mad at first, but she may also respect you more.
Remember, no one will respect you if you don't first respect yourself.
Personally, with how your W is acting right now, I think it benefits all of you, especially the kids, if she is out of the house. I mean if she doesn't even want to come into their rooms to say goodnight or get up in the morning with them, she's doing more damage being there right now.
You said that you think the kids know something is a miss - based on what you describe is going on I am certain they know what's going on, much more than you think.
The situation isn't healthy for you or them. Keep being there for your kids man, they really, really need you right now.
S4H
I agree that it is best that she moves out for everyone. It is weird watching the kids around her. When I was in therapy, I told the therapist I felt like "I have to walk on eggshells all the time". I can see it in the kids now. Since I started my business, the family desk has become my realm and my wife had to get her "own" computer which sits at the kitchen table. My daughter will usually color at the kitchen table, but when my wife is home....she colors at the table very rarely. This weekend she actually sat under the office chair I was sitting in and colored.
I do agree that db'ing is no guarantee to saving a marriage...I see it much more as saving yourself. I think I have achieved that during this process. There were things in my life that needed changing and that I have changed...such as working too much. The big downfalls that I have in reality are more fatigue driven. I do to much and then burn out. Since I have no family in the area, I can't even use them as a respite from my children or life. Then to have somebody who should be helping just waltzing in and out on a whim...is frustrating. How to you tell an adult...stay home with your kids if they don't want too? I mean really...lock the door and drive away before they can? I live in a community state, so I can't lock or kick her out. She has to leave on her own and the sooner the better for all.
On to the good news....great soccer practice today. I am coaching my daughters team. Just imagine...a 6'4"..245 ex-hockey and football player coaching a bunch of dainty 7 year old soccer players. I have seven girls on the team and four of them have been playing for over 4 years. In the field next to us was a 12 year old girls team and the coach came over and just said "they are impressive". Good passing and good defense. I fear that I might have to hold them back once games start...they are that good! Just got both the kids showered and bathed...time for them to hit the hay. My wife is currently out so things are peaceful and quiet.
I just went back and reread my posts today...what a WOW moment. I know that what I described is a very brief synopsis, but WOW. Another side bar point...I don't really trust my wife with the kids alone. So if I could sneak out, I am nervous about what might happen. She isn't abusive, but has had outbursts that have been beyond scary. Time to put the kids to bed!
Personally if it was me, I'd just include your kids in your GALing activities. They desparately need the stability and drama less activities. I hope your W wakes up soon and realizes how selfish she is being and the damage she is doing to both your R and her R with your children.
S4H
Over slept this morning and barely got the kids out the door in time to catch the school bus. I think my wife found it all humorous as she appeared to be a good mood most of the morning. So afterwords, I ran to the hospital to apply for financial assistance (recently found out I am now allergic to bee stings...no insurance and 3 hours in the ER...what fun). Came home to grab some breakfast, catch up on some email, and a little small talk with the wife. Then the funny part of the morning...I go to the toy store to get a present for my son (belated present from grandfather who doesn't remember birthdays), during which I actually get hit on by a lesbian couple. Of course I am not out in the dating world, but "We have the whole day off. Why don't you hang out with us?" seems to be getting hit on...lol.
Came home, caught up on business emails and went over to the park for a jog. I stopped jogging in the summer because of a combination of a wicked cough (swine flu maybe?) and taking care of the kids which left little time to go for hour plus runs. So today I decided to go out and see what I could do. So I kept a nice pace and ended up running a 5K in 30:33. I was pleased with that result after two months off.
Overall it should be a nice peaceful day. The wife is working 11-8 so I have the house pretty much to myself for the afternoon. Then my kids and their friends will be here to do homework and play after school....
Interesting evening...IM'ing with wife about a problem with our daughter and then bang..I get this;
"I am so lost...I don't want to come home....I don't want to go out.....Life is Crap!"
To which I replied "That is a very tough place to be"...end of conversation. Come home and I ignore her since she is obviously moody. Then she is in and out of bed about every hour all night...I wonder if my Saturday outburst actually struck a cord in her mind? She has been pleasant today for the most part and is training some new people at work...supposedly she is going to be promoted to some middle management type position.
Busy day for me so far. Did some business and house errands around town and then went to the park for a jog. It was just a perfect day for that and now I am home catching my breathe until the kids come home from school. Then do homework, off to dance, try to grab some dinner, off to soccer, and then put the kids in bed....today is my long long day...lol.
Brava!!! You handled that marvelously. The comment was great, and wonderful validation...did not try to solve, but just acknowledged that it is a tough place to be. Most excellent!!!
Thanks Lola
Wednesdays are so busy for me...lol. Got the kids off the bus (my two and two of the neighbors children) and ran home to do homework. Then out the door to all our afternoon activities and finally got back in at 7:45....Called my MIL by video call so she could see kids (gramma just got a computer) and this was the first time she has seen them in about 1.5 years....all parties very happy. Wife went to guy friends after work and returns home around 9 very pissy. I am goofing around the kitchen and ask what is up? It turns out guy friend was in a pissy mood then kicked her out because he didn't want me to get mad again. She was awake all night again (therefore I was awake...aarrgghhh) and seemed distracted. She mentioned that she wants to get away by herself for the weekend but has no place to go and no money. I just validated and wished that things were different financially for us. Not much else to say. Made some some corned beef hash and eggs for breakfast (for both of us) and read a little. I am currently reading "Tuscan Holiday" which is very good even if it a women focused book.
Shortly I am off to walk this morning....not much work to do at the moment. Already started my secret marinara sauce this morning. I had a friend from Florence who served the best sauce in her restaurant. She shared the recipe, which is very odd in ingredients, and now I make it from scratch. Will add some of my special meatballs (also from scratch) to the sauce later and let it all simmer throughout the afternoon...I have found that cooking is very relaxing for me.
I am coming to YOUR house for dinner!!! LOL!!!
LOL....IF you can only see the faces of people when the come over to have dinner. Usually they think that the wife is the one cooking and I am the one inviting. Then when they come into the kitchen and there I am cooking...hilarious. When we lived in Maryland my wife belonged to a mothers group. Every few months they would get together including the guys...which was pretty a good time. We usually brought cookies or some snack, but one time by the time we said we were going they needed some real food. So I cooked up a big patch of my stuffed chicken Marsala and brought it with us. So I walk in carry my dish of chicken and one of the mothers tells me to put it on the counter and asks my wife "What should we do with it?". My wife just shrugs and says to them "Asks him, he is the one who cooks the good stuff".....I am laughing in a room of about ten moms with jaws hanging to the floor. That day I did finally realize that a cooking father was a real oddity in the usual family situation. I just grew up cooking and my mom swears to this day all I wanted to be as a kid was a chef!
It is an oddity! My stbx is from Germany, and used to cook the most awesome dishes. I was very thankful he enjoyed the cooking because I hated it!
Wife went to guy friends after work and returns home around 9 very pissy. I am goofing around the kitchen and ask what is up? It turns out guy friend was in a pissy mood then kicked her out because he didn't want me to get mad again.
Okay, I will be the first to admit that I am one to put up with quite a bit from my wayward W, at least to a point and probably more than most. However, there are boundaries and for the life of me I don't understand why you are putting up with your W actively and openly seeing other men, and then coming home to your bed to complain to you that her other man is being "pissy". She is completely disrespecting you and I don't think you take this. If she's going to be so flagrant about dating people, then send her on her way man.
S4H
AMEN AND HALLELUJAH! A person who is not afraid to speak...
Searching,
Searching,
I do agree, but at the moment there is no financial way for her to move out. I mean zero! So I am stuck in the "just life with it" area. I have no legal way to change the locks. She is trying to save up to get her own place, but that is a few months off. I did mention once a few months ago to just leave and she replied "well get a lawyer to make that happen". Of course I can't afford a lawyer....Overall I am in a lousy spot on the financial end of things. I did okay on the career path and had a good job that paid decent, better than average but not great. My wife being a SAHM did not contribute financially to the house, so there was no real savings and since being layed off...that is gone now too....so I am trapped.
Knowing that I am trapped financially, I just had to concede certain battles. Which sucks! The actually scarier reality for me is that the guy friend is moving soon (another victim of the economy) and my wife is starting to talk to the abusive GF again. My wife was worse mood wise when with her...I mean down right evil! She has already told me that she will start hanging out with ex-GF again once guy friend is gone.....then I may have to change the locks!
One thing I have learned through this..is I have to pick my battles very wisely and weigh all outcomes. Most of the battles I have passed on, and could be viewed as doormat type behavior, are ones were that I feel will negatively impact my children. Is it better to have a wife not here and out with guy friend or have her hear all moody and taking it out on the kids and I?
Just to clarify...I do think my wife is in a severe MLC (withdrawal stage is my guess at current phase) and wants nothing to do with my kids or I. So would you leave your kids with some one who doesn't want to be a parent? Or would you rather have that parent be gone as mush as possible? Sometimes having a peaceful house may mean being a doormat, but that is still better than a war zone!
TotallyLost,
I hear you regarding picking your battles, but come on man this is pure BS that she is doing. What are your kids learning, that Dad is okay with Mom having a boyfriend because it will keep her from being mean?
Everyone has to do what they think is best in their situation but I really don't see any "best" in this at all. Have you thought about telling her to just go move in with the BF, GF or whoever and set up a visitation schedule for her to see the kids. Then she would be out of the house all the time and you wouldn't have to deal with any of her pissy attitude.
I know you feel like you are in delimna, but perhaps if you take a stand on this it will force a bit of reality into her. JMO.
S4h
If you think your wife is in MLC, you might want to post over there. There are some really fine folks who have got all this down, and can give you a lot of fantastic advice. I was over there for a while, and the people there can quote MLC scripture by verse. If you don't want to post, then at least read some of the stuff. MLC is a whole different ball game, and some of the DBing rules do not apply. It is special...lol
Lola-I have read a lot of the MLC postings and have really confirmed that is what my wife is in. I came to this page more because I wanted the tested veterans more than anything else. I know that I will soon be separated and will have to deal with anger when it arrives. Yes...MLC is special and some rules don't apply, but coming up with which ones do takes time and sadly...a lot of pain.
Searching-There definitely is no "best" thing to do in my situation. I think the oddity of the situation is the main reason why I have never had many responders in the past. Even experienced DB'ers are truly "WTF"...I will go into more detail later in this post if I have time. The gist for me is there is a distinct difference between "inaction" and the "inability" to act. If my finances were different, she would be gone long ago. Since I technically can't kick her out....she has to go on her own free will. Which she is trying to do. Trust me...I have been at this knowingly for over 1.5 years. I have tried suggestions from Puppy and Forrest...I have tried being friends tactics from others...nothing has worked.
My Wife's history-
Mother-Sweet lady who suffers from depression and is highly critical. She is hard to talk with and has an opinion about everything..divorced father and never got remarried
Sister-Younger and suffers from depression regularly. Nice girl, but is very self centered and blames everybody else for her problems
Dad-Left when wife was 12...had enough of mom. Married a woman who is 6 years older than wife and started new family. Acknowledges wife and siblings, but is more focused on new family. Hard to describe relationship with kids...more like he did enough to be a dad, but nothing more
Older brother (and big key)-Tormented family as child. Wife reports of him destroying toys, stealing her belongings, etc..etc. To this day lives in his car and as made nothing of his life. My wife can't stand being in the same room as him. Sometimes I almost wonder if there was some sexual abuse, but there was definitely sexual and physical abuse.
I will continue with this later...I have four bored kids on my hands...lol
On with my little story-
So my wife grows up in house continually tormented by brother. Eventually moves out to dads and then college. During this time has a string of relationships...nothing special. Graduates college and marries a guy with MS. Wife works hard to make life for herself, while husband blames all his problems on MS and does little or nothing. Relationship eventually turns verbally and physically abusive. Wife begins affair with her best friends husband (compulsive cheater that was sleeping with at least two other woman than my wife and his wife). My wife moves out of her house into an apartment....first time she is really alone and able to do her thing with no responsibilities. Six months later I come along and sweep her off her feet. I told her right away that I wanted marriage...spooks her, but I am what she needs at that time. Her divorce is finalized and we move into her house. A year later, the night before my college graduation, she proposes to me! Then we go though a few boring years of just good relationship stuff.
We decide to have a baby (big chore since there were medical issues) and have a son. He is has chronic ears problems etc. Things are still good between us. Two years later we try for number two. During her pregnancy she starts having problems controlling our son (now 2), at one point he actually attacks her, and she has a breakdown. She is transferred to a new office about 1.5 hours away and is driving daily to work. She quits her job and decides to be a SAHM. I support it, though scared because my pay is low at this point.
Through the next few years, sex decreases, but we are still good. The usually romantic husband and wife stuff. My wife continues to have problems with our son. Can't control him and I am not to good at dealing with it either (son eventually diagnosed with ADD).
In lure of more money and lack of snow, we move south. I get big raise, but also work a lot more. Wife does okay, makes a lot of new friends, goes out regularly, etc. We still seem to be okay, but problems continue with our son.
Year later we move farther south. Problems start right away. Wife can't make friends, etc. Meets GF (another compulsive cheater...has slept with at least 5 married people that I know of) and it goes from there down hill to were we are today.
At this point my wife doesn't want to be a mother or wife. She loves her daughter dearly, but really has no relationship with our son. I feel that our son reminds her of her brother. Our relationship is very different in comparison to most on here. There have been some tense battles, but a lot less than the norm. She has actually expressed remorse more than once! She has also stated I am a marvelous man and a great father! But she wants to be free of the responsibility of being a wife and mother. So I end up here preparing for separation....making some kick butt marinara and meatballs.
Lola-Read your story....very interesting and how you handled it...extraordinary...I feel lucky to have your insight
Searching-Still catching up on yours...but thank you for the comments and know that I do hear what you are saying
It is just so out of the norm...not that being on this board is normal...lol. There is a better break down in my old threads. Of course initially I thought it was all about the affair, but now I know better. So I live day by day...trying to be as detached as possible. Most days I succeed, some days I fail.
TotallyLost,
Thanks for sharing your story. You have some tough decisions to make but I think it would be good to just step back, look at the actions you have taken so far and the progress you have made, i.e. the end state of where you want to be. What's working and what's not working.
A part of me senses that you are enabling your W's behavior and as long as you do that then things really aren't going to change. I do understand that finances can impact decisions to a certain extent - however I think in your situation you could take more control of what is going on. What would happen if you told your wife, enough is enough. She can continue to live with you and your kids IF she ends the running around with OM/OW. You are not throwing her out, you're merely setting boundaries. I do wish you the best of luck - your kids are lucky to have at least one stable parent, continue to be there for them.
S4H
Thanks for the compliment, although I don't feel extraordinary. I just realized that life goes on regardless. In the immortal words of Morgan Freeman "get busy livin' or get busy dyin'".
Ultimately it is how you work on yourself. Regardless of whether or not your W comes back, you work on being the best you that you can be, for you. I think for me, it was about accepting me the way that I am, and making a few minor changes. I think when we are married, sometimes we lose sight of ourselves. I had to find out who I was again. And now that I have, I realize I really like me. I am not perfect, but I can live with that.
What makes you YOU?
Searching-
Initially I was very enabling...almost disgustingly so. My confidence had been shaken so bad that I would have bowed down to just about anybody. Now I am more at the point were I don't want to rock the boat anymore. I know she is planning on leaving as soon as she can...so why push the issue? At this time I see it only as creating more stress in a place that is stressed out already. I do mention to her about spending money and she does keep it under control. As far as spending time with the children....she has missed a lot that will never happen again. Times that will never be recaptured for her....and that is her loss. My kids will regret that she wasn't there for my daughters first soccer goal, a fun day at the beach, or the loss of a first tooth, but I was and that is the reality of it all. I think for a lot of the WAS on here, they will find Karma to be a b@tch someday, especially in situations with children.
Lola-I do agree that in marriage, spouses tend to lose some of what made them different to begin with. Individuality is lost, instead of embraced. I read a book and they went into great detail on how so many marriages fall into dependency as opposed to interdependency. My marriage was definitely about dependency to the max. So many of the things we enjoyed to do...ended with the children arriving. Not that children are bad, but we didn't keep up with ourselves.
When this all started I did a big self-review instead of lashing out with hatred (well a little hatred and pursuing..lol) and what I saw in the mirror wasn't good. The first glaring problems were that I was working to much for a company that didn't care and I was way out of shape. I started working less which allowed more time for me and more importantly...more time with my children. Then I started working out...hard. I had never been a skinny model type person, but I had always been in shape. I wasn't in shape any longer and that was fundamentally against who I had been for years. Then I started to look for things from there that I could do including the kids such as hiking...etc.
I found those parts relatively easy...it was wrestling with the emotional parts that I found difficult. The feelings of being a failure and less than a man. It took time, but I had to realized that even some of my faults were strengths that most people can't accept. I am very loyal...whether it was my employees or friends. Some people take advantage of that, but it is part of who I am. I was pounded to the point of thinking of it as a weakness and then I embraced it as a strength.
Currently...I am content with who I am. Things might not be great because of things outside of my control, but I am content. I am a good father and husband (my wife will even say so), I am successful, and I am 20 pounds from being pretty hot...lol.
On to the latest events....watched all four kids last night to about 6:30. The neighbors wife had a doctors appointment take forever so I ended up watching them longer. The marinara sauce came out good, but I needed to boil it longer. Finally jump in the shower at 8 and the wife comes home. I walk out of the bathroom and she has this look on here face and asks "Are you going somewhere?". I wasn't going anywhere, but I might need to change that. I don't get out during the week because I am doing things with kids and sometimes late work. She did seem to take notice of me showering though..who knows? So overslept a little and got the kids to the school bus and return home to a wife all chipper and joking around all the time before she left to work. She was actually joking and talking so much it was a little annoying.....I was still tired! So maybe next week I will go out during the week once the kids go to bed...that would be a new 180 for me. Once she left, I did what little work I had to do and started my morning torture rituals. Worked out with weights and then off to the park for a 4 mile walk. Walk was awesome and I include one of my latest 180's into it. I have challenged myself to say "hello" to 10 people I don't know everyday....it is actually quite fun! Of course saying hello to some 20 something female can always be fun for the confidence levels. From there went out to lunch with a friend at local mexican joint...yummy except I need to go walk another 4 miles now...lol.
What a weekend! LOL...the kids go to school far a week and then a long weekend. The downside is that we had little to do and for the most part the neighborhood kids weren't around...can you say BORED children leads to parent insanity...lol.
Friday-Usual happenings...The kids got home from school and went out to play. I had to deal with my son BORROWING his best friends toy. After serious thought and deliberation, decided no tv, computer, nintendo, or going inside friends house for the weekend. Wife came home and then went out with her friends....I hung out with the kids and then crashed early.....
Saturday-Got up and took kids grocery shopping...back home around noon to find wife still in bed. She was extremely moody, but not my problem. She leaves around 3 and I tell her that I going to take the kids to the movies. So goof off the rest of the afternoon and take kids to the 8:00 showing of GI Joe (a lot more violence than I remember, but I don't think kids will be scarred for life). Get home at 10:30 and wife is home and sound asleep...Hmmmmm
Sunday-Wife is moody and asks me about the "cave". I try to describe the man's cave to her, but it is kind of hard to describe. Come to find out guy friend sent her home because he wanted to go home and be by himself. OK..no problem. So I take kids to park to play and return home to find her trying to make plans with a co-worker about going for a motorcycle ride. I tell her she better be up front with him that she isn't interested because I don't want a pissed off wife or girlfriend coming to my door. She says she is not interested at all in this guy...and I state that I don't want some one to get the wrong impression (When wife mentioned wanting to go for a bike ride before...co-worker offered...she said to him "What will your girlfriend think?" and his reply was "I don't care what she thinks"...some people are such a@@holes). So I decide to take kids to local fair and her plans fall through, so I ask her if she wants to come. She says maybe and I get around doing my thing (she gets text from co-worker that he will be at a local bar). As we are going out the door I ask again.."Do you want to go?". She starts crying and says no I don't, please go. Which I do...fair wasn't much fun, basically little shopping places and that's it. A few rides for the kids, but I am not paying $3 a kid for 30 seconds of fun! Return home and she is gone. She returns from the bar about an hour after we get back even moodier. Turns out guy friend returned to bar Saturday night after she left and stayed to closing...so she is pissed off that he lied to her and is pushing her away (Karma is a bitch).
Monday-She chats with old college buddy and then joins me in conversation. Basically how she has lost the drive she used to have. Asks me about it and I tell her that was one of things that I was attracted to her for. She mentions that she doesn't remember having drive and I roll off examples of it. Asks me when did it disappear, with the children? To which I reply, sadly yes...it disappeared with them...sometimes the truth sucks, but it is the truth. Then she talks about the separation and she says her friend gets it...that she doesn't really think she wants a divorce...just some time and space. Oh the confusion!
Today-Some lousy business calls...seems like everybody I talk too is barely hanging on now. Very sad....good news is the weather was perfect for a run. Hit the park and pushed out a 5K in 28:33. I am very pleased with that since my ankle is still hurting and I have only been running again for about two weeks.
Hope everyone has a good afternoon!
LostforWords,
Here is something for you to think about. Why is your wife looking for anyone to pay attention to her, but you? It seems like she is starving for someone to be attracted to her and when she doesn't get it she becomes as you say "moody". Do you know what that is all about? How old is she? The fact that she says "that she doesn't greally think she wants a divorce...just some time and space", sounds to me like MLC talk. Is she looking to sow some wild oats and then come back and settle down with you? If that is her plan, how are you with all of this? Is that what you want to settle for yourself?
S4H
S4H,
My wife is 41. I think you have really gotten to the heart of why separation is inevitable for us. I feel (though it has taken a lot of objective looking and time) that she is in MLC that was compounded by the relationship with the OW. As I stated above, the OW was experienced with drawing unhappy spouses out of their vows. So you put a woman going into an MLC and somebody with less than usual morals...viola. I really believe at this point, if it hadn't been for the hicky...I never would have found out. From the time I knew, I did the usual early DB no-no's and drove a stake farther into her...and now she is filled with guilt. How can you love some one if you don't love yourself? How can you be a loving mother, if you don't love yourself? And in everything you do with your family, children, or husband you see what you have destroyed!
As far as the attention goes...she doesn't want it from me because of guilt and feeling unworthy. She has stated many times how she doesn't deserve me and I deserve so much more (see...we are getting off the usual DB situation). So she goes to find it elsewhere. Our therapist always mentioned that my wife may suffer from some form of narcissism that evolved in her early childhood. She didn't get the attention a solid family foundation should have created and instead tries to fill that need now in her adulthood. More than one friend and multiple family members (both sides) has mentioned that she always needs to be the center of attention. I was always overbearing with attention which is why we probably lasted as long as we have, but that attention became painful to her because of the guilt.
So yes...I do know what this is all about. It is about a broken marriage centered around what is now a broken woman. Sadly (according to what I have researched)until her demons are exercised, she will continue to fluctuate in the wind. I really think that is the curse of MLC....there is nothing an LBS can do to change what is happening. The WAS has to be the one to deal with the issues. On another board I saw mention that close to 80% of MLC WAWS regret what they did and want to return to the marriage.....but what it ends up taking is hitting the bottom of the barrel in divorce to act as a catalyst to make the necessary changes. So by the time the MLC'er is ready, the LBS is gone.
When will I hit my "enough" point...I don't know. I have thought that I hit it so many times, but haven't. So I work on detaching as gracefully as possible. I had this thought at the fair as i walked around observing all these couples holding hands and such. I started feeling down and depressed and then a pair of hands squeezed mine. In each of my hands were my childrens hands attached to heads filled with big smiles....is a little pain worth it? Would you leave a spouse because they were disfigured? If I do find that point, I am sure my reaction will be quick. What may do it...who knows? Right now I need to focus on what I do know...the welfare of my children, my business, and my self.
Irritating Observations about society;
A few weeks ago I went to a local bar to catch a preseason football game. So as I drank my beers and joked with the bartender, I observed the people around me (old habit of mine). In the middle of the place there sat two woman. Throughout the evening I watched as man after man tried to pick up these ladies. Many of the attempts were very lame and the worst being a guy who bought them shots, delivered them, and walked away without saying a word (I was there long enough to know they didn't come or go together). The part that really did bother me though was a table of three gentlemen who finally did engage these women. I watched these men checking out the ladies and of course noticed they all had wedding bands on. Once the ladies joined them at their table...all three wedding bands were gone. During the current problem times with my wife, she has noted how many times people (both sexes) have hit on her even though they know she is married....and we are talking a lot.
What has happened to society in general? I know this isn't directly a DB'ing thing, but were have decent morals gone? In my single days there is no way I would have knowingly hit on a married woman. The same being said for getting hit on by woman, I would always be very forthright and mention that I was married. Yet these characteristics seem to be disappearing in society. Have we become just a very spoiled "me" society? It is just sad for me to see how low commitment and loyalty have fallen in what is important to society! I know people make mistakes, but there is a difference between a mistake and wanton disregard for others.
So I can continue to walk towards the end. I have to do a much better job at detaching, because the BS is going to kill me. Actually I am starting to despise my wife quite a bit and really getting sick of it all. One of the things I have a problem with are the social online networks. I am friends with my wife on two of them. The problem I have is reading her post about how horrible things are for her! I try to mentally block them out, but seeing it 3-4 times a day....just bothers me. I know I should just block her or delete her from my pages, but some of me doesn't want to! It is like I will lose that little window into her life....I have to do better detaching.
On the wife front (pre-note-All people know she is married)-Guy friend is either very depressed or feeling guilty. Either way he has started to push her away and she hasn't been happy about that. Co-worker guy is texting her all the time now....She appears annoyed by it, but he may end up being a guy she uses for beer and motorcycle rides...who knows? A female friend of another co-worker (50 year old single woman living and partying with a group of 22 year olds) hit on my wife this week telling her she was pretty and taking her cell phone number (to send her interesting messages...ahh). Then there is the kicker of it all. She found an old HS friend on the computer and they have been chatting for a year or so. This guy is a 40 year old permanent MLC type guy. To be honest, I am jealous. Never married, no kids, plenty or money, and travels all over all the time. So his latest GF (He has tons of hot GF's) broke up with him this week. So wife wants to go down and see him all of a sudden....Hmmmmm....I need to detach. She says nothing is going to happen....heard that one before.
On me: I may have to put the dream of my business on hold. Right now I just can't find work and when I do...I either get underbid or the people can't afford to have the work done. Been trying to find a job, but it seems like there are only $8.00 an hour jobs available...and that doesn't cover the bills. I sent out some more applications and inquiries, but no luck so far. The real burner about it all is....until I can start making more cash, we need her cash to pay the bills. So that delays her moving out!
And then there is the loneliness thing. It seems like there are women everywhere doing the eye and body language flirt thing. It seems like if I am at the park running, grocery shopping, or even at the park with the kids there is some woman checking me out. It is getting really hard not to walk up to one of these women and say "Hi"....really hard.
Yeah...I am in rough shape today!
Lost. Say hi. My S says "I am going to be the hi guy today". And he says hi to everyone he sees. I tried it and it was a blast. I felt awkward at first and then after a little while it felt great to say Hi to everyone. I was in a much better mood. I try it everyday now. It works wonders to see other people smiled because you said Hi.
You are a man of enormous Mental strength to stay calm in your sitch. Mine is pale in comparison. Hang in there.
MIB,
Thanks for stopping in. I usually say hello to people like you son does and it is a bunch of fun. So I did take it a step further today and said "hi" to one of the regular smiliers when I was walking. I had my kids with me (usually I walk/run in the mornings when they are in school) and it only took a few seconds before the "Where is mommy question?" came out. Of course my son said she isn't around like usually. Talk about a funny reaction...lol.
So I have been pretty busy today. Did some cleaning around the house, the weightlifting, then off to the park with kids for a 3 mile walk. Watching football for the early afternoon and then maybe a ride this afternoon.
I will catch up with your situation later MIB...half time is over
Been pretty busy lately. Got a decent sized project, working out, cleaning, and taking care of the 1,000,000 kid things that seem to fill up my time completely. As of late, the wife and I have actually been having talks that go beyond "I am bored"....lol. The guy friend is moving away and has basically blown my wife off for the last three weeks. The funny thing overall...my wife's GF basically abuses her ending that relationship and guy friend just stops talking to her. Yet she still doesn't want to work on our relationship or do things with the kids. It is really confusing....she once said "Why is it that the people you don't care matter, and the people who do care don't matter". She is a confused messed.
The bad thought on my part, is I hope that she is learning from all the marriages that seem to be falling apart around us. She has been posting on Facebook how horrible it is for her and old friends have been responding with "What is wrong?". Of course from there, she talks with other wives complaining about their husbands. Just today while she was having a conversation with a friend, she went through the list of all the things the husband is doing wrong...and then ends "You were never that bad"...LOL....duh. I brought up the fact that so many families are in financial distress at the moment, but she coldly reminded me that our problems are more than just financial...I wonder if she realizes a lot of our problems result from her spending time with everybody else she meets other than the kids and i....probably not. So today she is out bike riding with the co-worker friend. Supposedly it is just fun...but we will see. At this point I really trust nobody anymore. I am just seeing so much irresponsible behavior all around me.
Well time to make the bed and finish my beef stew.
Really frickin pissed.
Scene-This Morning. The wife transferring money from HER account to family account to cover mortgage. Yes, I did not cover half the bills this month or the month before (bad months for the business).
As she walks out the door "Have you heard about the two jobs you applied for? Me; "no word on one and the other one I got turned down for (told her early this week, but whatever)"...well follow up on the second and YOU HAD BETTER KEEP LOOKING!" with a grimace and stomping out the door.
Now to clarify the situation-I am starting a new business and there isn't a ton of money coming in (works out to pay in the $12-14 an hour range)...but there is some. I also have a second business DJ'ing. For this business I have hooked up with another DJ to increase bookings. I also take care of the house and kids completely...she does nothing except her laundry...zero. I also have a few job applications for real good jobs (jobs that pay a living wage and not the bare minimum) since I feel it is silly to get a job for $10/hr which I am already doing.
Her situation-8 years ago left high paying job due to stress and our income was cut by 60%. WANTED TO BE A SAHM! Started two mlm businesses costing us thousands with supplies and conventions...one broke even, the second lost about $4000...but I supported her. Gave up on those and started a small web design firm...by the time she started making $300-400 a month she was starting MLC and most money went to bars, parties, and trips away for the weekend. Still I supported her web business and we didn't really need the money bad at that point. Then when I lost my job she decided she really didn't like doing web design anymore. Now she has a job and makes about $2000 a month which doesn't cover the house bills and needs whatever I can make. August and September were bad for me...no new jobs and one client building up AR by not paying his bills (he will pay...just hasn't).
But where is the flippin support from her? I supported her for so long and never told her to get a job! I work hard ever day...but being a new small business...that doesn't always mean cash coming. The truth be told...if I make it through the depression...I will be sitting pretty since my most of my competition has closed up shop or reduced staff to nothing. Where is the acknowledgment that my ADD son...who has always had problems in school, brought home a midterm report card with As and Bs and the bigger note...has not had one bad behavior note or demerit this year. I hate this crap.......and I am just venting.
Beyond pissed today...calming slowly....but still very pissed.
Last night was dance and then soccer, so I was running around all evening. KEY POINT for later...wife IM's me at 5:15 telling me she is working until 6....then she notes I am not home. Watch the time line.
So I get home shortly before 8 and the wife is on the couch. So I have to get both of the kids bathed, fed, and into bed. So I get that done...and no she didn't budge from the couch and seemed overly moody. Tells me guy friend texted her today..."bye...I am out of town" and moved. So we are watching TV and around 10 she starts getting texts...doesn't answer..just ignores them and we go to bed.
This morning I am curious who is texting my wife at 10 at night. So before I leave for work, I do some snooping and it was the co-worker texting his nightly "hi". Come to find out this guy is living with a woman, but has plenty of time to spend texting my wife and taking for a bike ride. Hmmm...but that isn't what really catches my attention...there are texts to a new number.
Conversation
Wife-some forwarded message "I have the power..who is my bitch now?"
Person-"I have the power...who is this?"
Wife-"The cougar...followed by her number"
Person-"I know a lot of cougars, but don't recognize your number"
This conversation started at 5:30....shortly after my wife realized I wasn't home...hmmmmm. There was no more messages or phone calls!
This person is a 22 year old pot smoker who works at the mall and goes to the gym. Lives with a bunch of people and party all the times (including the 50 year old co-worker friend of my wife who parties all the time). The wife has stated he is "eye candy" more than once.
So how do I kick her out? I don't want a lawyer, nor can afford one, but this has to stop. I am done!
Hey man about to wrap up a very long day here, and I do not do DBing at home. But you asked me to take a look and I will get back to you tomorrow.
My advice is geared more toward MLC, you should know that, but I am all for standing up for yourself if your spouse is taking advantage of you as well.
24 hour rule, when really pi ssed off, take 24 hours before responding.
Jack,
I know that your advice is more geared towards MLC and I should probably move over there. The reason I don't is that I have jumped around so much that I just need a home...lol. I came to the conclusion my wife was really in an MLC about a year ago...prior to that I thought she was more a WAW or orientation confused spouse. Once I started researching MLC...too many unexplainable actions started to become explainable.
The wife does fit the criteria pretty good. A traumatic childhood scarred by a divorce and an abusive relationship with a brother. The trigger of moving long distance twice in a year. A long term bad relationship with her son. It all just feel into place...even the stages of MLC matched up with our move down here and the stages she went through. I would really say my wife is in MLC from October of 2006 to today.
Right now I think she is is teetering on the withdrawal stage, but I am just worried. I have been at this awhile and the baby steps are so far and few in between. She will actually just start crying because she hates it here so much. Then I worry if she will actually be able to make it through the withdrawal stage. She has surrounded herself with so many people who seem to be stuck in MLC also. People who focus on partying and such. I know that I need to live my life, but I have reached the point that I know that I deserve more. My children deserve more and I need advice on how to set boundaries more effectively. Going dark has had minimal returns and I feel like my nose is continually rubbed into her crap...
I also now my current mood is my usual pattern. About every 4-6 weeks I get fatigued with trying to run a business, take care of house and kids, and focus on myself. Then I blow up...so this weekend my focus is to keep from blowing up and starting a relationship discussion.
I also now my current mood is my usual pattern. About every 4-6 weeks I get fatigued with trying to run a business, take care of house and kids, and focus on myself. Then I blow up...so this weekend my focus is to keep from blowing up and starting a relationship discussion.
That sounds like me. I had a similar pattern and it got so common my H was expecting the blow ups... I have read about MLC but dont know much about it. I dont know if my H was in MLC (deaths, sicknesses, moves etc etc were all there and could have triggered that but...) and the A was a result or it was just the A that messed up his mind... I will never know
I know it is hard. Try to keep yourself "safe", mentally mostly (and physically of course).
Stay strong
K
Thanks K....I have read your story and you have done wonderful considering. It is hard to find the right balance in all of this. So at the moment I am focusing on fatiguing my body through a vigorous workout...lol. Shouldn't be doing because I am working out to hard, but the rush feels to good to pass up.
You read my story? LOL!!! All 66 threads???????? WOW!!
LOL...I read a lot of them over time. I have actually read a lot of the posts on here. I am a very compassionate and curious person. I hate to see people hurting...even when it is of there own doing. Yours really caught my eyes because of the waffling your husband did.
And does... Sigh!!!
I am sticking around to 100 threads. Then I get my prize...
K
The waffling or else cake eating was something I am responsible for, too. We live we learn.
I hear that one...Somedays I wish I could go back a1.5 years and take her up on her offer to move out. I think things would be different at this point one way or the other. What gets me sometimes is how much the children and I have changed....it has been a very bright spot in a dark cloud. Or maybe I should change my mentality...things are bright with one little dark spot. Hmmmm.....I will have to think about that!
I hear you, if it wasnt for stxH (and my dad's cancer, my boring job, my weight, the ocean etc etc), things wouuld be perfect in my life!!! LOLOL!!!!
No person should be able to control our life.
K
Need to leave my office, the weekend starts here and on Sunday we have elections... Ohhh and Ali (DB friend from UK) is staying with me tonight!!
See you around later- SMILE!!
Have a great weekend! Between you and working out with retarded amounts of weight...I am smiling
Lost,
It turns out guy friend was in a pissy mood then kicked her out because he didn't want me to get mad again
Again? More to that story that I didn't see posted there.
Lost I really like the way you think and handle this.
I have to admit that there was a bunch to read and process and during it, points I wanted to make were overwritten by other points.
Several that stick out.
Boundaries. Only make them if you can enforce them. If you cannot or will not enforce them you are a paper tiger.
You go out alot for being financially tight...example movies with kids. Netflix is cheaper.
Of course your friends are going to think she is a douchebag, stop talking to them about her.
We do live in a "Me" society. Everyone is entitled and no one is responsible. : )
I like the way you are handling this and yourself even with the limitations you find yourself under.
Keep up on the self improvements.
I am guessing that you have no nearby family to help with the kids...there are support groups in almost all neighborhoods, you put in to get out. Might look into something like that.
You want her out...help her out. I am not saying give up, I am saying let her choke on the space she wants.
Most telling to me about this likely being MLC...and I am not a professioanl...is that you posted that she wasn't sure she wanted a divorce...recently, she just wanted some space and time.
I'll be able to keep more current with your posts now, just want you to know it seems like you are doing a good job.
Thanks for catching up on my story.
I totally agree that boundaries need to be set and enforced. There a lot of things she does do that made many boundaries easy. She hasn't brought any of her relationships into the house other than the first one. I think the only reason for that was there had been a friendship between the GF, myself, and all of our kids prior to the crud hitting the fan. She also doesn't spend house money on her forays...she's just using money she earns from a part time gig she has from home. Luckily for me a lot of the horrible things I have witnessed on the board have never happened here.
The going out is for me. Financially irresponsible...yes! I do agree. I just feel trapped a lot. I work my two business from the house and of course I am here when the kids are. I do get out for work every know and then and of course there are the kids activities, but those aren't nice relaxing times for me. So I take the kids and try to get out and do something...that all three of us can do. It is a tough one for me....one I usually feel guilty about making. At times though it feels like the walls are closing on me and suffocating me...usually I relieve that by working out. It is an action I will have to monitor.
You are correct that there isn't any family nearby. I have developed some good family friendship which has been a godsend. To actually take that a step farther I have signed up to help my daughters teacher throughout the school....I am nervous about it, but hopefully I can make some new friends and at the same time be a positive impact on my daughter's school year.
Today is a busy day for. I also had a bad nights sleep (wife was tossing and turning and on top of that...300 situps yesterday threw my back into spasms last night...ouch). So I was up at five and worked for a few hours. From there made a big breakfast for everybody and then off to the soccer fields (the team I coach won...yippee) for this mornings game. Shortly I am off to the grocery store to get that part of the day done...one thing I will say...being basically a single parent is tough. My hats goes off to all the parents who do it for 15-20 years!
Also had a good day as of recent with the business...Landed a job yesterday and also discussed the potential of a few more with a couple of clients. The jobs still aren't in the basket, but at least there is discussion about the possibility of some.
The wife was mellow this morning. Her ex-gf is trying to help her find an apartment. Of course the ex-gf doesn't hear my wife's repeated statements that she doesn't have any money. The ex-gf is basically enabling my wifes thoughts that all her problems are here in the house and that she needs to run away and restart her live. I really hope the ex-gf is there for my wife when she realizes what she has given up. I know that realization will happen, it is just a matter of when and if I decide to stay around that long.
Have a great day...I will catch up with you later!
Well an interesting weekend to say the least. It was filled with the usual kid activities and I got out for the second weekend in a row to play some flag football. Some real good bonding time.
I really felt for my wife this weekend. I could see the trapped look she had in her eyes all weekend. It seemed like her friends were unavailable for most of the weekend to get out. Then Saturday evening it got more interesting. She went out with some friends who are in a committed relationship. Well it seems the relationship was not that committed as one of them slept with my wife's ex-gf. The other half of that relationship is supposedly the ex-gf's best friend. I can't image how much that had to have hurt my wife. I asked her about it and she stated that she lost a lot of respect for the ex-gf, but I am sure there is more. It had to really hurt to realize what she was willing to give up for her ex-gf.....when in reality their relationship (beyond friendship) might have only been another notch on the head board. I guess I might be too compassionate....because I feel bad. What a wicked web we weave.
We then had a good conversation Sunday about her moving out and how she felt. I listened and validated. She had been researching separation on the web and she did bring up on item of interest. It seems that dating right after the separation is not encouraged. She stated that she she wants to be independent and not alone. That living alone and having a BF is simpler and that is what she wants. She did note that she is scared, confused, and feels alone.
I asked her if she finds any happiness in her life at the moment. She said she doesn't, that everything sucks, and even the things she used to enjoy no longer bring her happiness (I.E. spending time with her daughter). How for a short time with her ex-gf she felt happiness, but that eventually wore away. I really feel for her. It must be such a miserable to place for her to be in mentally. Another poster had mentioned how bad the MLC'ers must feel deep down inside. I think the pain is much worse than the pain we feel.
For my wife;
I love you babe and would give you a hug......but I can't. You need to find happiness on your own. Though you haven't asked for it...I will wait as long as I can for you to find your way out of hell. How ever it works out...I will try to always be your friend.
Your compassion/empathy will serve you well in helping you hold on as long as you can.
Tough dinner at my house tonight. My wife wasn't home from work yet and the kids and I were eating dinner together (soccer practice so we had to eat without my wife). So the kids started asking were mommy was and I told them she was working. Then my sweet little girl (who always has a big smile on her face and loves her mommy and daddy to pieces) looks at me and says "Daddy, I wish I had two mommies:(". So I ask her why does she want two mommies and she says "Because I want to spend more time with mommy and if I had two of them I could!". Then my son out of the blue (who has never had a good relationship with his mother) says "I wish mommy didn't have to work and be out so much.....I want to spend more time with her". I told them mommy was busy and that we need to work, but boy was that a tough one.
It really has been a long time since the kids have mentioned that they miss their mother. There has been the appeals from my D when my wife was leaving for her to stay home, but not like this. It was very sad to see that look on their faces.
My wife did come home before we went to practice, but I got a good view of what my children are feeling. I have to continue to be strong for them....a foundation in which they can find a little security.
I am sore...my body is broken...my mind is mush. No...not over my marriage, but over work. LOL...been working a project by myself the requires moving over a 100 pounds of equipment all over a 30% grade, heavily wooded, and muddy hillside while clearing a path for me to work in. Oh do my legs hurt, but it does feel good to be working.
Nothing much to note on the marriage situation...pretty quiet on the western front.
As a great friend of mine pointed out, you didn't talk your way into this, so you aren't going to talk your way out.
When things happen fast in this current relationship you find yourself in...it usually isn't good.
Slow movement isn't usually detectable. But the seeds for your actions will bring forth growth down the road. A 40 foot old oak doesn't grow over night.
It is hard to tell the difference between stagnation and growth...it is very hard.
Ah...a miserable weather day. Today I wonder about other parents. My son had a soccer game this morning and it wasn't pretty. Before the game even started it was very noticeable that our kids were much smaller. The other team took advantage of that and played a very physical game that the smaller boys really couldn't handle (we actually had two boys leave the field and not return from injuries). But in my opinion that is part of the game. Well our coach was complaining to the ref about the second boy being hurt near the end of the game. So shortly after the game, the boy's, who caused the injury, father ran across the field and attacked our coach. Scared the p@ss out of my son who came to me crying...but what are parents like that thinking. Be a positive model for your children, and not a childish idiot.
So yesterday my daughter was talking about her step aunt. My wife explained that how that all worked and then ends it by saying.."Well you will probably have a step sister and will understand in the future". I really wanted to scream, but held my mouth in check.
Then this morning was another karma situation. My daughter was at a friends house and wanted to go to another friends house to play. So she called and my wife answered. My daughter didn't want to ask my wife and asked if I was home. I wasn't home and my wife told D that it was OK....but she was pissed enough to mention it to me and how it has happened at least three times. So I am gloating a little bit, but what does she really expect when for the 1.5 yeas she has done basically nothing with the kids and I have taken over by basically parenting them by myself. I see a backlash coming from this, but at least I am prepared....lol.
DB/MLC'er philosophy question of the day;
So my wife is out with the co-worker today for a motorcycle ride...skipping another soccer game, no cleaning, cooking, nothing. Not that I am surprised, but I just wonder why they do what they do? Or how they see what the see in the other person?
First-We all know the intercompany relationships are very bad and can easily lead to a loss of employment
Second-This guy brags he has been married three times
Third-Currently lives with married GF
Now my wife says that nothing will happen. When I asked about his GF, her reply was "She is driving him f@cking nuts" and he wants her out of his life. That is so predictable....yet she will still go out with him for a ride. It makes me laugh really....it is easier to date an obvious scumbag than work on your family. These MLC'ers make me wonder sometimes.
Well it is time to get ready for soccer. Already played football this morning and have plans of Chicken & Broccoli Alfredo from scratch later...tonight is going to be a good night
Well last night was ok until I went to bed. My wife returned a little after 7 and proceeded to spend three hours on her computer making plans to go to MA to see her old college friends (Hmmm....no money). So I jump on after 10 and a few minutes after she went to bed. I see on face book.."good day of sleeping, food, fresh air and a great confidence boost".
So I backslide a little and as I was getting ready for bed asked her about it. Wrong idea. She immediately became very defensive (said it was because she was sleeping), so of course I noted that and pushed it a little bit. She said is was just a friend and not the guy she spent the day with...got up and went to sleep on the couch. An hour later she wakes me up and says "You have no right to question me and I don't have to give you an answer"...."I am going to stop posting personal stuff on myspace because you and ex-gf hang on my ever post". Well in the beginning I did, but for the last year I have stopped. I did read the constant complaints about how horrible her life is...but kept my mouth shut. So in the end it was easy to delete her from my profile.
I did tell her that I deleted her and she quickly replied "well that doesn't change a thing"...to which I now answer to myself. Yes..you have alienated and disrespected my enough that I no longer want to read your self-induced problems.
Now talk about a day getting weirder and weirder. After I posted above, I IM'ed my wife to help get some banking done. She directed me to the right web sites and such and I got it done.
So she gets home after I am finishing my daily weight work out. So I am walking around the house shirtless after doing a chest and arm workout and grab a water as she walks in. So she walks next to me as I am drinking my water and just stares at my flexed arm as I am drinking water...it may be nothing, but I am very pleased with how my bodies is starting to regain it's 20 something look again. So during her 1/2 hour break we don't say a word because my phone doesn't stop ringing with different business stuff. So she just leaves without saying a word...because I am on the phone.
So I text her later to tell her that I was taking the kids to get Halloween costumes. She replies fine...going to see therapist. This was an unscheduled appoint....hmmm.
So I go and get the kids costumes...during which she IM's me that the therapist is setting her up to get on anti-depressants. By the time I see the IM and get off a video call to her mother (MIL wanted to see kids costumes...so I had set up the video call before even logging on to see the IM) my wife has left work.
So as I am preparing dinner, my wife walks in and the first thing out of her mouth is "So you didn't want to respond to my IM". So I explain what happened and then she doesn't shut up for the rest of the time she was here. Talking about her appointment, body pains, head ache, and everything else she can fit in....the therapists has diagnosed her with a few different problems that stem from her childhood.
The only way it can weirder in my opinion is if she comes home, throws on some lingerie, and attacks me!
Some days are just plain weird
Would you rather she talked about her day to someone else?
See...you and I had a similar problem...where I would be like,
"STFU!"...on the inside.
Oh my god can they talk about anything and everything...right?
Women want that. A confidant...you are supposed to be hers.
Do no think of it as a punishment...because really Lost, she could be talking with someone else.
Anytime I start thinking to myself...why won't she shut up? Who took the stop valve out of her mouth? I am very quickly reminded that once upon a time, she used to talk to the OM about her day.
Just saying.
Jack,
Very true...and a point I have considered before.
Well went to see the therapist today. It is a new therapist (husband of my old therapist) but his prices are affordable. We went over my history and discussed my wife a bit. He seemed actually surprised that I hadn't divorced her already. Overall a good first appointment and we made another on for next week.
Did a few more errands and got home for lunch at the same time my wife did. Since the kids aren't home, I decided to broach the legal aspects of the separation. Actually a very good conversation that my wife actually thanked me for and appreciated that I accepted that it was what she wants.
She did state she is confused because we are her family, but she wants her own space.
That she feels for me like a brother and not a lover. That she has felt that way for 2 years (hmmm....affair started approximately then...cause and affect maybe)
That I would initially have main custody of the kids (every other weekend with her)
That right now the financial aspect is holding us back from doing it.
Overall a civil and good conversation.
Definition of boring;
Uninteresting and tiresome; dull.
I think that was the word of the weekend...the funny part about it, I had way to much work to do to be bored. The lovely wife basically sat at her computer all weekend doing basically nothing other than complaining about boredom.
Moi on the other hand basically did not stop all weekend. Between cleaning (bathroom, vacuuming, laundry, dishes), working out, working, soccer, school activity planning, etc....boring was not in my vocabulary. How is it that some one can complain of boredom when there is so much that needs to get done? Purely because they don't feel like it....this MLC stuff just makes so little since to me. I can see how housework can be dull...but it does make the time go by.
The wife is going to see some of her college friends next weekend. It must be nice to not have the financial burden of children sometimes. The inviting friend (no kids) is paying for her plane ticket. I love my kids to pieces, but it would be nice to have money laying around to just go and buy plane tickets. Of course the not having children seems to be a prerequisite for her friends now...and her friends with kids are basically forgotten. I would assume that is another symptom of MLC because she doesn't have to feel the guilt of what a family should be like.
Overall the weekend was good. One funny conversation with my wife about how I am over compensating with the kids. That I do too many things like cleaning, cooking, coaching, and volunteering at the school. That I have become super mr. mom in her words...but what am I really to do? The kids need foundation....well off to work I go.
One funny conversation with my wife about how I am over compensating with the kids.
Yeah...
that.
Look, are you buying your kids things instead of giving them attention? Are you letting them get away with murder, whenthey should be called to task?
No?
Well then, chances are, her accustation of over compensating is more than likely a guilty conscience, for her lack of being a parent.
Are you doing
more than you used to?
Willing to bet you are. That doesn't mean you are overcompensating, it just means your awake now to what is important. You could even mention that.
In that regard F her and what she thinks. Your a better dad now, don't let her bitter words ruin that.
Jack,
I would agree with it being completely guilt driven. More than once she mentioned she should be doing this or that, but "just didn't feel like it". In the end for me the proof is when teachers, other parents, the principle, or even the bus driver mention how my childrens behavior and grades have improved. I don't care if it is called "over compensation" or whatever...instead of collapsing, my children are flourishing.
For my wife that has to be very hard. Not to say she was a bad mother, because she was a very good mother. I really credit a lot of the improvements on parenting style changes I made. Changes that needed to be made and of course the situation opened my eyes to that.
Interesting conversation last night....one that makes you go hmmm. My wife has been diagnosed with a mental disorder that appears to make sense. Now she is going to research some medication and see a doctor to discuss getting onto some sort of AD. We discussed her guy friend and why she thinks he just disappeared...nothing big there. We discussed the co-worker friend who is obviously being manipulated by the wife...she actually admitted that and that he is just a distraction from her stress. She also pushed that there is no attraction to him either. Talked a little bit about body image and how she is confident with her looks and body. Basically all over the place!
She did mention two things specifically;
1) That she really doesn't want to be around anybody at the moment. She doesn't want to be home, but doesn't want to go out with people because she just wants to be alone.
2)In all her other previous relationship break ups she noted that it was the other persons fault. She followed that by saying I was the first person she did not blame for the failure of the relationship....hmmmm
Got a take on that Jack?
1) That she really doesn't want to be around anybody at the moment. She doesn't want to be home, but doesn't want to go out with people because she just wants to be alone.
My wife felt similar. Though at times, I knew she had company. : ) However, after all was sadi and done, turns out he came over without her approval.
She did want to be alone.
2)In all her other previous relationship break ups she noted that it was the other persons fault. She followed that by saying I was the first person she did not blame for the failure of the relationship....hmmmm
Similar discussion. Although, yes I had some major faults, that I admitted to myself.
Seems like a decent conversation. How do you feel about it?
Jack,
It sounds like our wives are very similar in their thinking. Overall I felt strangely good....it was nice that she felt enough trust in me to open up that much. Overall I validated and listened...occasionally offering my opinion or view on certain topics (it was a good 1.5 hour conversation). One other thing I did pick up was that if the conversation stopped for 2-3 minutes and I left the room....she would start it up again within about 30 seconds. Even to the point that I sat down in another room and she shortly followed me to restart the conversation.
The validation from her that I was not the problem did help heal some scars from past. I am sure with all the truly horrible and nasty things an MLC can say and how those statements hurt a persons confidence. As with you, I did have some major faults that needed to be addressed. It is to bad that it took this situation to realize some of those faults, but we cannot change the past....only learn from it.
Mistakes only truely happen when you repeat them.
I remember being confused when my wife openly talked of her relationship with OM like I was an impartial observer with no vested interest.
While I was confused, I maintained a calm about me. To this day I believe it was a test of sorts on her part...from her cunning monkey part of her brain. : )
FYI - me and my wife stayed up until 2 am like stupid kids playing a new video game.
There is hope Lost.
You can have better than you had.
Oh yes....I have had many of those conversations. Many times I was confused and thought "just walk away and don't listen", but the heart said to stand there, listen, and be a friend. A test maybe....through all this a lot of people have said "what is really wrong?"...you get along...you confide in each other....you get along for the most part better than we do. So yes there is hope....even as bad as things are...I hear a lot worse from others including marriages not in peril....and if this is bad I would love to see it get good again.
Went to see the therapist today. His wife is my old therapist and my wife's therapist. He asked in our first meeting if he could share notes with his wife to which I agreed. So today we were discussing things that have gone on in my life in general and he just looked at me and said "I have so much respect for you....so few people are as resilient as you and would still be there. That shows so much about your character and what true unconditional love is all about." That felt good!
You should feel proud of yourself.
So what are you doing for you this weekend?
Good question Jack...but technically very little for me. One of the wife's old college friends bought her a ticket to go home for the weekend and she is having a little reunion with three college classmates.
So I am on the low with two kids all weekend......she left this morning and I just got back from the airport. My agenda is easy...Last night I DJ'ed a wedding and for the rest of the weekend...
4 soccer games
Grocery Shopping
Cleaning
Some business work
Surely same play time with the kids
and hopefully finished off watching some football tomorrow and maybe play a little too....have to see if I can ditch the kids...lol
Forgot to add....the running conversation my wife has been having with me continued this morning....we only had a five minute ride to the airport and it seems she needed to fill me in on everything she did for the last 24 hours (didn't see her since yesterday morning because of schedule).
Boy did she look good this morning....she woke me up right after she got out of the shower. Not a bad way to wake up
Well the weekend was very busy...Saturday morning was filled with soccer and groceries. BY the time it was all done, it was after three and a client called needing some information by Sunday. So after returning from soccer, I spent the next three hours gathering that information and the day was done. My wife called and talked with the kids and I for a few minutes.
Sunday was more of the same...Got the kids to clean their rooms and I did house work (6 loads of laundry in one day....personal record). Then soccer for most of the afternoon. The wife called and we talked for a little bit. Then I had some problems with my son so MIL talked with him on the phone for a bit and then talked with me. My two SIL's met with my wife and said she sounded great for the first time in a long time. That she had been going through two days of therapeutic discussions with her friends and looked happy...it was good to hear that. Then later in the evening the wife sent me a picture of her and her friends sitting on the coach together....I guess I am not completely forgotten...LOL.
Have a busy week scheduled with kids activities, business stuff, and school activities...hopefully I can keep the last of my hair through this week...lol.
Alright so I read most of your initial posts.
Where are you and what is going right now with your marriage?
Where am I?
I have created a world that is so busy between the kids, volunteering, house work, coaching, and running a business that I don't really know where I am. In regards to my marriage, I love my wife very much but have gotten to the point were if she needs to leave to be happy....that I am good with her leaving. Not the angry "I hate you" type of get out...more the deeper "I understand you are not happy here" and acceptance of that which is what she wants. I have accepted that no matter how much I change or what I do....she needs to fix herself first.
I really think HER telling me that this situation is not my fault was very huge for me. It made up for all those horrible statements and self-doubts that had been built up. A lot of pain was erased!
So maybe were I am right now....is that I am happy taking care of my kids and the business. There are things that could improve, but I am happy. I have found personal fulfillment in new areas that I would never have thought to go, made new friends, developed harder challenges and goals, but most importantly....have really developed a good relationship with my children! I think a lot of parents...especially those working feel like they have great relationships with their children (I did). Then I started spending a lot more time with them and discovered what I was really missing....and now we have a great relationship.
Right now...I think a lot has changed in the last few months. For my wife...the anger and hate has disappeared. She is still in a hole, but she has also accepted that. She now is seeing a therapist, starting AD medication, and going to see friends who are really looking out for her best interest. I think she has finally accepted that I have to come to understand what is has been like to be her as a stay at home mother. The constant running around, nagging, boredom, and never ending doctor appointments and and after school activities.
Our communication seems to be getting deeper and more honest each time we have a relationship talk. We have always communicated rather well, but now it can be brutally honest without some one being hurt or sad. It used to be so forced and turn into heated arguments...but those days are gone.
I won't hide behind an illusion that my marriage may be savable...but I think the friendship is very much alive. It may end up that she never again loves me more that like a brother. However things end up...I feel our relationship is better than it has been in a long time. No longer do I feel like I need to please her and I am sure she feels like she no longer does everything by herself.
Honestly...I can now see how a relationship saved from this type of situation can be stronger and better than before. I do hope that maybe I will get the chance to share that with my wife, but no matter how things turn out I am better as a person.
Does that make sense? Or do I sound like a totally insane person living in an illusion...lol
Oh...and a recent (last 10 seconds...LOL) update. My wife has requested that I add her back as a friend on a social network site.....Hmmmm....I am nervous...lol
Dang...Typed a long reply last night and it didn't post.
OW-Kind of out of the picture. After a big fallout in Feb that included physical harm to my wife...they stopped talking. Now they talk a little and the OW has a BF that she is head of tails in love with (Wife doesn't like that too much...is hurt OW never felt that for her)
Guy Friend-Disappeared after wife mentioned that I mentioned she was having an EA with him. Wife is miffed that he just stopped talking to her for the most part.
Then there are a few other little relationships that I am unsure completely what unfolded though I don't think they turned into affairs.
Her therapists has diagnosed her with Adult attachment disorder;
""Unresolved childhood attachment issues leave an adult vulnerable to difficulties in forming secure adult relationships. Patterns of attachment continue through the life cycle and across generations. New relations are affected by the expectations developed in past relationships. There is a strong correlation between insecure adult attachment and marital dissatisfaction and negative marital interactions. If an adult does not feel safe with others, he/she will tend to be either rejecting of their partner or overly clingy."
A lot of early childhood causes for this disease are apparent in my wife's childhood. She is also very clingy and needy during a relationship. What she herself mentioned might have happened with us....Is that when I started working 60-70 hours a week, she lost security in the relationship and her ability to be clingy. So she moved to somebody else who was available for her to be clingy to. Then she moved from that relationship to the EA...so this constant need for some one to be clingy to, combined with a boredom and hate of being at home is a tough hurdle. No wonder why I had always tended to be very affectionate in our marriage and dating...it was what she wanted and needed. She had stated it once in a letter...I had loved her more than anybody else including her family....now the reason for that statement really becomes clear.
Based on what I have read...I feel it might be very tough to save the marriage. Before we can make steps in that direction, I think my wife will once again have to feel secure with me...not just on a relationship level, but also financially, parenting, work, etc.....almost like dating again if she ever wants that.
Pretty freaky stuff and just another reason that divorce may cause damages later in life.
""Unresolved childhood attachment issues leave an adult vulnerable to difficulties in forming secure adult relationships. Patterns of attachment continue through the life cycle and across generations. New relations are affected by the expectations developed in past relationships. There is a strong correlation between insecure adult attachment and marital dissatisfaction and negative marital interactions. If an adult does not feel safe with others, he/she will tend to be either rejecting of their partner or overly clingy."
No sh it? Who doesn't have that? :p. That's like being a weatherman and saying sometime this year it will rain.
Thanks for the info, helps knowing the backstory.
How are you doing today?
Jack,
Doing pretty well today actually. Got the kids up and out the door. Then did some small business stuff before going to the school for some volunteering. From there picked up the wife at the airport. Since that point I switched cars with a neighbor and finished up a little more work. This afternoon I have some pumpkin carving planned for a school exhibit and thomework and more pumpkin carving with the kids....busy day.
The wife looks worn out from her trip. Currently sleeping...but she did a lot of traveling in four days...so that is where I would be also.
How are you?...LOL. I found that keeping busy keeps the lonely bug away...also the boredom bug and gets a lot of things done
: )
Been awhile since any here has asked...thank you.
I am doing great.
Did the pumpkins last night, toasting the seeds tonight, picking up wife's costume this evening. Bow-chicka-wow-wow. ; )
Actually it is just an accompanying pirate captain costume to go along with hand made one her mother made for me.
Hence...why many old timers in MLC call me pirate.
Well what a few interesting days. For the most part last week was just a constant supply of things to do. So basically I went dark with no intention since I was so busy running around. The only real thing I noticed was that my wife was less active talking with all her friends. She even said she just wanted to be alone and not bothered.
So then Saturday morning I ran out an got some muffins early in the morning. When my wife wakes up, she notices the muffins and proceeds to inform me that my spending habits were a big cause of our marital discord and that I need to do better. Wow...she hasn't talked like that in a long time.
So then she goes to work and I do my usually Saturday activities.
Then the even bigger WOW. I go to play football Sunday morning and when I return...she is actually cleaning. In the last 1.5 years the only cleaning she did was the bathroom once. I go to my sons soccer game and return home to her still cleaning and the front steps sweep of leaves. Shortly there after she tells me that she is finally feeling good and things need to start getting in shape around the house. Where did this woman come from? I think I remember her from about 3 years ago, but I haven't seen her in a long time. We actually spent a good part of the day joking and goofing off playing computer games against one another.
Then today, the few times I saw her, she was talking about work and some problems there. Actually continuing the confiding trends that has grown more and more over the last month.
Jack-Opinion? Also hope you are having a good day.
Jack-Opinion... : ) I liked that...alot.
Reward good behavior, ignore bad behaviour.
You seem to be doing great.
Did you:
1) Thank her for the work? Honestly, not like "kissing her butt over the top thanks."
2) Offer to help, as in, "Anything I can do to help out?"
As a man/husband, part of my journey in this was to learn NOT to take over a project from her. Women...I have found...don't actually like that. When we offer to help, we men tend to take over, because we think we can do it better...and that builds resentment. Offering to help and being partners, letting her direct...you'd be surprised how effective that is.
I did thank her, but did not offer to help. Mainly for two reasons...I was super busy myself and she has complained in the past that I do too much for her. Not really taking over, but more like...as she refers to it "Kissing her a@@"...lol. The flip side of this being that I have constantly asked for direction or help when cleaning. I am man enough to know that my cleaning style isn't very good...so I ask for direction so I can come close to how she expects it too be done.
Last night I got to ignore the bad behavior....things were busy, the kids were off the wall, and she seemed tense. Then we had a conversation breakdown (three people talking to me at the same time and the phone ringing) and she went to the bedroom and closed the door. It was a pretty tense evening mad worse by my son being extremely confrontational with me and refusing to get stuff done he needs to you. I gave her space and this morning she was back in a good mood....so it seemed like a good technique.
Had a good meeting with my therapist this morning. Talked a lot about support systems and my lack of a large friend network and disconnect from my family. It seems like I am not the only person here who has issues building friendships. He noted that his wife and him face the same difficulties and that it may be a mix of cultural differences and focus on business. Really don't know...either way a redneck I am not...so it is hard for me to relate to them.
Well back to the grind....Wednesdays are very busy for me from dawn to dusk.
Venting and rather irate. First off...the wife went out with the ex-gf and work friend last night. Comes home in a bad mood and I find out later she had a breakdown at the bar. It seems so funny to me that EVERY time she hangs out with these people she ends up in a bad mood. She obviously doesn't see it...but ever time it happens. I am sure GF and worker friend were both supporting her need to get out of the house because the house, kids, and I are obviously the cause of all her problems.
Then today...clarification for story-yesterday I closed out a project that meant a check big enough to cover my operating expenses (not payroll...just bills) for the rest of the year and then a few grand more. So I talked with my partner and we decided to purchase some software that we have needed (I have been using pirated software for the last year). So I purchased the software and installed this morning. The wife calls up complaining how I am wasting money on the software and that is giving up WHAT SHE WANTS to cover the bills. This is software I need to run my company and have been using illegally for a year. I have put off buying the software more than once to make sure that we had pay money. This time I looked at the next two months and said "Company bills are covered...so everything else can go right into pay".
I really want to remind her of the $1000's she has spent in the bars, restaurants, movies, on day trips, on dating, and on romantic getaways with her ex-gf....funny how when she was spending money on that stuff she had little problem doing it.
I really want to remind her of the $1000's she has spent in the bars, restaurants, movies, on day trips, on dating, and on romantic getaways with her ex-gf....funny how when she was spending money on that stuff she had little problem doing it.
This is exactly what I think you should do. She's blaming you for problems that she has helped create. Seems to me like she needs to have a dose of reality.
S4H
...
A little tit for tat.
Ah a good way to get into a fight if that's what you want.
You ever notice that when people 'push' you to do something, you end up resenting them? Kind of like her 'friends' are pushing her? And really you have a great bird's eye view of exactly how your wife reacts to people trying to control her or tell her what to do.
One day she will realize her friends, are not good for her, but she needs to figure that out on her own, and when she does...then giving her supportting evidence to her realization is how you get that done.
The longer I proceed down this path the harder things seem to be...for me. In reality certain things are much better, but other things have just gotten to the point that it really grates on my nerves. The financial stuff is really getting me at the moment. Since I was laid off...I started a new business, restarted an old business, and done what ever small odd job that seemed to appear. I fret over the lost wages a little bit, but I know that I have to just keep working hard and hope things work out. There are so many people that I know who are in deep financial hardships. Some, like us, are barely making it month to month. Others are way behind on mortgages and etc. Very few people I know are living the high life anymore. I know for a lot of us.....a lot of our financial problems have been caused by circumstances that are really out of our control. But too hear my wife lament about how next month we are going to be bankrupt is getting very tedious. She has been saying that since March, yet here we are 8 months later with all the bills covered except one...which sadly there just isn't the money for.
The path I have chosen is to look at the other side. My business are both starting to get work. I have been getting little side jobs that have helped to make ends meet. Jobs that are way below my skill set, but they are still jobs that pay. We have almost successfully continued to cover our bills though we are on pace to make only half as much as last year (I do wonder were all the money was going before...probably gas and clothes for my old job...who knows).....so I am sick of hearing how horrible it is and bankruptcy is right around the corner. I refuse to think like that.
The second big things is the loneliness combined with hearing how much my wife wants anybody else in this world other than me. How she is single and lonely! Last night a friend took me out for the evening. I told him that I couldn't because I didn't have the cash. He replied it is on me. So we went to a bar and through darts. We flirted with the waitress, who we know flirted back in an attempt to make bigger tips which is fine. As the night went on....the instances of eye flirting with women, especially younger woman, got more and more. It felt nice to garner attention from the fairer sex. Then three young ladies came over to play darts next to us and it felt like I had returned to college. Flirting, eye contact, repeated touches from all three women....it was nice to be noticed again. It made me smile when a woman grabbed my arm and commented how solid it is....after so many hours of hard working out to be acknowledged was priceless. The oldest of these woman was 26 and yes it could have easily gone farther, yet I didn't go there. The flirting was fun.....but instead of thinking that I was married, the thought of bringing some one else into my mess was stronger. I think the total of everything that happened yesterday was a big stepping stone for me. I am really ready for my wife to move out...maybe more so actually want it. I want to move on with my life and start getting treated with respect and in a manner that I deserve....no longer as a horrible problem.
Hey brother man.
Flirting is essential, it reminds us that we are attractive and it keeps our skills up. So keep up the practice. It actually does a world of wonder for you...now for the dark side of it.
Well you have seen it. You can easily see how attention given to you makes you want it from your wife who is incapable of it...to you.
Your wife was she always a negative nelly? Or is this the whole going batshit crazy part of her?
How was the rest of your weekend?
Hey Jack,
How are you this fine day?
You are right about the flirting and it's dark side. Almost like going out to family functions without the wife. Reminds you of what you want, yet it isn't there. I plan on continuing the flirting because it does feel good, but at the same time remember that it does have a dark side.
Thanks for asking about the rest of the weekend. It was extremely busy...Sunday was filled with playing football with the guys, watching football, making crock pot beef stroganoff, some laundry, and raking 40 bags of leaves up. The wife came home Saturday night in a mood that continued through Sunday, but I basically ignored it and just kept doing my thing...lol.
I would say she has always been negative caused by a huge desire for perfection. If things aren't perfect in her mind, then she is negative about it. She said once about our relationship "95% of woman would love to have you as a husband...I just want more". So when things aren't going right, she gets negative. More so than most. A good example is my cleaning skills. Most woman would love a man who cleaned the bathroom once a decade. Yet I clean the bathroom regularly and she gets pissy and makes comments how I don't do a good enough job. So instead of accepting that I tried to clean the bathroom...she gets negative and doesn't understand or accept that I don't do it as good as she does.
The good part of today and last night is that she is in a good mood again. She even noted that her mood has been better and we talked about it a little. I told her (Like I told my therapists and told her the same) that I haven't seen her in a mood this good since we moved here. I just wish she would realize that her so called friends tend to diminish her good mood quite a bit....but I suppose with time.
I am good man, thanks for asking.
Pretty funny...in a more ha ha f me sort of way, that whole I'm done, I'm not done cycle. You'll know for sure when you don't actually cycle that you are there in one repsect or the other.
That's why I usually don't put much faith in those statements at first.
I read somewhere of a study that says 'we' change out our friends just about every 7 years..but our social circle still rmeains about the same size...its like staff turnover in an office.
A good sign of ...positive...changes in her is when these parasites...ahem...I mean friends of hers start dropping off of her social calendar. Not saying she will instantly wake up or anything like that, it just shows that she is re-evaluting her life.
The cool thing about rebuildning, if you get there, you get to adress the issues you have with her as well. Its not just a one way street where you are grateful for her coming back, you get to throw down some guidelines too.
"Look this whole the bathroom isn't good enough bull crap? Tell me how to fix it, or do it yourself, but stop complaining about it." : )
I recommend not doing that one for a little bit though.
I sometimes believe in fate
Here is an example...a very influential person in my professional development had his anniversary on July 11th...the same day as mine. Even more odd...His wife and he chose that date because of an on going joke they had....the same with the wife and me.
I like the way Jack thinks...coincidence...his register date on this site is on January 25th or in other words....my birthday.
Then Jack references "A good sign of" and my wifes status on myspace this morning...."getting rid of the excess garbage...taking control". Yes Jack she has been talking with her Friends less and less as of late. She used to come home and start IM'ing, texting, and talking with her friends while ignoring the rest of us. In the last month or so she has shed a lot of those friends and definitely talks less with them and a ton....big TON....more with me.
Now the cool one of the morning. I got up early, went to the store, noticed her gas tank was low (she has to go out of town for a Dr's appointment), and filled it up. She calls and asks when I did it and I tell her. We end the conversation and she hangs up. She then calls back 30 seconds later to thank me because she didn't during the previous call. The changes are small and subtle, but 6 months ago she wouldn't have thanked me for anything.
Weird weekend with the wife. A good example being a communication breakdown we had. She was talking non-stop as usually and I missed something. When I didn't reply she got upset and said "How are we going to get better if I stop wanting to strangle you everyday?". Now I am confused....and the woman talks non-stop which makes it worse. Sometimes she is talking to herself and if I respond....she tells me that I am bothering her. Then she talks and I don't respond...so I am ignoring her. Or else she complains about not sleeping well...non-stop I might add. So I ask her how she slept last night and she snips back "You pay to much attention to my sleeping habits".....well if some body keeps complaining about something isn't it polite to ask?
Good weekend other wise. Got a lot done around the house and the kids behaved for the most part. So all is good. Did get a reminder after football Sunday morning that I am not as young as I used to be...damn I am sore. Add to that, I am the biggest guy on the field by at least 40 pounds adds up to the reminder that running wind sprints covering 160 pound 25 year old receivers can turn painful.
Sometimes I wonder why I am really here. Is the marriage really worth saving in the wrong run or should I cut my loses and start from scratch to hopefully find some one that may respect me and value me? Examples of such...Yesterday I made the whole Thanksgiving meal (not something new...something I do ever year)...and yes I did get a "thank you, it was very good", but that was after a few critical comments about my cooking. Then this morning I get accused of screwing up her car radio...enough for her to call me from work. I have no recollections of screwing with her radio and definitely did not intentionally do what she said I did. She kept going on and on until I finally caved in and said...yes it had to be me.
It has always been that way in our relationship....her holding me to standards that she probably can't even meet.
Just confused today
Lostforwords........I understand how you feel. Completely.
Is the marriage really worth saving in the wrong run or should I cut my loses and start from scratch to hopefully find some one that may respect me and value me?
Exactly how I feel. I know my needs aren't being met, days I wonder if there is too much water under the bridge. Everyone tells me don't you want to be with a man who can love you the way you deserved to be loved? I'm having the hardest time letting go. I've known no one else. I've been with my H since high school. We have a son....been together 12 years. It's so very hard. I'm trying to let go and grieve but he can't leave me be.
Exactly Nik...you seem to understand it completely. Does help that you are in the same boat sadly. There are small baby steps all the time, but it feels like there should be more. At least we deserve more than being thrown away for basically nothing....just sucks.
Oh yes, I know! I've spent the last two years giving everything I had to him. I put in 150% and get a whole lot of nothing.
He has made small steps - he watched the Love & Respect video which he would've never done. We went to our first counseling session on Thursday. He previously sad don't even bother I'm no going.......so those are major steps I don't mean to minimize those but my son and I are still back at my parents now, everything still seems to be about him, what he decides, when, etc. In the meantime, I'm working on myself and continuing the work that needs to be done for me.
I don't expect everything to be rainbows but there is more to life than this........why can't I let him go?
I wish I had that answer. Some probably lay in co-dependence, integrity, loyalty, lack of confidence, and in your case long term familiarity. For you, he is basically all you have known for your adult life so on some level for you...a little fear. It is definitely understandable, but doesn't make the situation any easier. I think that is one of the reasons why gal'ing is so important to DB'ing. It gets you ready mentally to know that there is more in this world....you get to see it, feel it, taste it. Were as if you sit and wait you don't have the opportunity to get those feelings.
It does appear that your husband is making a little effort towards reconciling though. It almost seems like you are at a cross road to decide what you want. So what do you want?
Well over the weekend I tried to establish some boundaries.......I kept our communication minimal unless it was about our son. Yesterday he made some desparate attempts.
He said to come quick or I could regret it. Tell our son he loves him, come quick but don't bring Jack. So after a few attempts prior to this of getting me to come I finally did once he started talking like he was considering hurting himself. I went there.......and he said I just didn't feel good. I told him that was unacceptable to trick me into thinking he was doing something more serious. I asked him if he needed something from me, if not I was leaving. So I did. He then called me later and said please come over with Jack. I'm tired of crying, tired of being alone. Please come and stay the night with Jack. So we did. I felt bad. He cried a lot and our son asked him why he was crying he said cuz daddy's happy. he hugged me and said I'm sorry.
Not sure what he's sorry for exactly but I was too exahusted to find out at the time.
So...........awww now what???
We went to our first counseling session on Thursday. He previously sad don't even bother I'm no going.......so those are major steps I don't mean to minimize those but my son and I are still back at my parents now, everything still seems to be about him, what he decides, when, etc. In the meantime, I'm working on myself and continuing the work that needs to be done for me.
It's that cold-hearted indifference that is an arrow through the heart. Every day you wonder how long will that pain last -- even if you are doing the steps to make you better.
Nik,
It does sound like there is some regret in his heart. It also seems like there is fair bit of indecisiveness on your part. I would say that your husband is very close to the bottom of the barrel...so that is good. What I have witnessed here is that men, more so than woman, tend to appear almost suicidal near the bottom.
I forgot...do you do anything together when he isn't down?
Lost,
It has always been that way in our relationship....her holding me to standards that she probably can't even meet.
Has it? Not being combative here. Just curious if you're looking for justifications right now. The MLCer isn't the only one that re-writes the relationship history.
As for the listening when they talk non-stop babble...and they do. It takes practice to
really listen. But it also takes you to stand up a little and slow them down.
I have found that repeating things helps MUCH more than just nodding my head and grunting an 'ahuh', works much better. I have alos found that by saying, you lost me when you switched subjects...as soon as you realized she changed subjects from the pros of a severe bob haircut to the rising flood waters in China is just as helpful and shows that you have been listening.
LOL...Jack I do repeat things back to her and then she looks at me and asks "Why are you doing that?". I of course reply that it is proactive communication that I am practicing and get the "Dork!" statement. The biggest breakdown in our communication seems to be when the kids are around. All three of them will be talking to me about different things and then I always seem to respond to the wrong person. I have to work on setting boundaries with the kids that when others are talking it isn't polite to interrupt with barbie or pokemon discussions.
I thought about your changing history comment....really it isn't looking for justification or changing history. It seems like nothing I have done through the years has been good enough. Actually I would say unappreciated even and this predates the current situation. Pathetically I used to go to Wifes/moms forums and research what woman wanted out of their spouse. This was an attempt on my part to be a better husband than what I felt like at the time. So I read about wife's/moms wanting help doing dishes, cooking, laundry, cleaning, week nights with the girls...etc. So I tried desperately to put into my married life what all these woman complained about. So Laundry for example...I would do laundry and then get "you didn't do it all". Then I would do it all and get "You didn't separate it right". So then I would do it all, separate it right and get "you didn't fold it right". This was a constant part of our relationship in many facets right from dating. Very rarely would I get a "thank you" or "at least you tried". More often than not the reply was "You didn't do it right". Then I would eventually give up on trying.
Of course the flip side to all that...after being in this situation for so long, she finally noticed that I try. She said to me this weekend "One good thing that has come out of this is that after two years you know what it is like to be me and have changed how you think about my life". So I guess a baby step.
May I suggest that you tried to correct your actions...after you noticed her...change? So of course it was too little too late.
She needed to belittle your actions otherwise she was making a mistake.
Or was she always like this?
"Hey do you want to go out on a date?"
"Well you did that wrong, and your voice squeaked a bit there...but (sigh) sure."
: )
I hate the been there done that, but I felt similar to you as well. If you get the chance to work on issues, this is one you can most certainly point out in her later.
My wife had a beautiful black sweater, that now fits Barbie after I did the laundry once...I can never do her laundry again, and I'm pretty sure that will be somewhere on my gravestone, but...I don't have to do laundry. : )
Win.
Oh Jack...it has always been like that. Really early in our relationship we used to watch 90210 with one of her girlfriends. So one night, I was in college at the time so afternoons were always free, I made dinner for all of us. It was one of the first dinners I had made for her at the time. So I made special mashed potatoes, sauteed veggies, and a meatloaf. So during dinner she complained how the meatloaf was dry and the veggies over cooked. Then while her and the friend talked about their day I cleaned up the kitchen...or so I thought....as I was politely told after the friend left. I did get a thank you, but it was just an example of what was to come.
So you shrunk the black sweater...the funny part about it all for us; While I have destroyed many of the kids and my clothes...I haven't damaged a single piece of hers. Just an oddity I suppose, but just how it has worked.
Hope you had a good thanksgiving.
I always joke that I am one of the few husbands who has been hollered at for doing laundry or the dishes...seriously. At that point in our relationship she noted that I was infringing on her responsibilities...so I stopped for a time. Then a kid would cry, a diaper would need to be changed, and the sink was filled with plates...so I would start again all over.
She chased me...LOL...and I don't think I am physically capable of a squeaky voice.
Overall this is something that will have to be addressed if we get some point of reconciling. My therapist actually noted that early in our individual sessions. She noted that my wife had the right to state I wasn't do them to her level of satisfaction, but that she should also do it with a little appreciation that at least I tried.
Well busy week so far of working out and trying to find work. I did take a part time job as a bouncer. Hopefully my old bones will be able to keep up with my mind on this one. I am not 27 anymore and probably won't bounce back as fast from getting hit, but we will see.
On the marriage side of things....My wife has mentioned four times, at leas,t this week about deciding that she thinks she wants to stay married. On top of that we have sat down and had lunch together for the last three days including going out for lunch today. Hmmmm.....maybe her actions are showing that her attitude is starting to change?
Bouncers don't hit, they wrap up.
I'd rather fight a young guy than an older guy.
Older guys know tricks and fight to win as quickly as possible. Young guys think they are invulnerable.
Look up Pressure Points.
LOL...That is so true Jack. The problem is most of the young bucks aren't smart enough to know the difference.
Back in my younger bouncing days I met a navy seal and a ranger (in the area for security on a nuclear plant decommission)and they were goofing around showing me how pressure points work. It was humbling to have them make my arm go numb with a touch.
Hoping your Holidays were awesome Lost. Hoping that all is well with you.
Just catching up.....I had an excellent Holiday season and hope you had the same Jack. Been busy here marketing the business, dealing with Christmas, and rekindling my marriage. Yes I just said that. My wife changed her status to married on Facebook, posts about how I "was the best choice she ever made", that I have always been her one true friend even when she didn't believe it or deserve it, and that her New Years resolution is to rekindle our marriage....so a lot has happened (she even mentioned going on a date...LOL).
Not resting on that though, as I acknowledge there is still a lot of work that needs to be done, but so far the New Year has started out on a very good note.
Talked a lot with my therapist today about the changes that I have made through the course of the whole situation. He is very impressed that I stood by my convictions, yet still accepted my own weaknesses. Upon accepting those weaknesses, instead of not changing them as so many would....I used personal strength and initiative to make myself a better person.
So yes I am a changed person...definitely for the better....and I look forward to the New Year!
Piecing and DBing is for the rest of your life my friend. : )
Do not ever become complacent again, and do not allow her to be either.
Do not be afarid to argue.
Good for you, and good for her.
I was reading another story on here by a nice gentleman named Bradley11. He went over a conversation he had with his wife that went downhill slowly. Now as Jack pointed out, Bradley was far from friendly in a dim'ish type way...when he had an opportunity to shine. I think we all need to be keenly aware of our conversation style....there is a time to be dim and a time to shine. The decision can only be made during a conversation...not before or after....that is when we all need to remember to shine.
Now one thing that really caught my attention was his reply to a statement his wife made being "OK, Fine". What I have learned through the years is that there are certain words that should just never be used. In the contracts I prepare, the word "all" will never be used because it meaning can be misconstrued and used against me. Personally my bad word has been "yep" for a long time. In hindsight "yep" is really quite demonstrative in that it doesn't show the person I am talking to respect or even that I am being attention to what they are saying. So I have basically wiped the word from my vocabulary.
Now back to "fine".....what type of word is fine? When I hear fine, I think of my kids stomping off to their bedroom to clean it with a lot of anger and hostility saying "Fine...I will do what you want". Or conversely something that isn't good enough or is bad. I think we all need to remember, whether talking to a wayward spouse, friend, or colleague that talking our conversation to the next level may be more respectful. Just a simple statement like "Have fun" or "that sounds good" might be received better than "fine".
On to me...things are going along well. Hopefully for all of us this cruddy economy changes soon. With my marriage....well everyday is work, but there are more reasons for smiles than there are for frowns.
With my marriage....well everyday is work, but there are more reasons for smiles than there are for frowns
So slow and steady? : )
That is the tempo....but yes slow and steady. There is just so much going on that affects our lives, yet is really out of control. So I am still focused on trying to deal with those issues, yet at the same time we as a couple are much closer to the same page.