I'm assuming my thread will lock soon so I have started another - don't want to miss any advice or support that drops by while I am at work.
Will provide a summary later for those who haven't been following my stitch all along.
(((Kassie))),
It looks like your thread finally locked. (At least I couldn't find a "reply" button anywhere..?)
You are so far ahead of me in this "journey" we are inching through. I don't have any advice to give (that you don't already know) .. but I do have support.
It's all so unbelievably hard but yet you ARE doing it! Stay strong Kassie. Keep on keeping on!
Rustie
Married two and half years. Separated 8 months ago. H was drinking too much and arguing most of the time. H didn't want to live with my older children in the house. I didn't like the drinking, the arguing and general behavior. I gave him the choice to stay, stop the drinking, enter MC. He wanted to drink and left, was dead set to D. Two weeks later he is asking to work on the R. We dated, but the pattern didn't change. Around the holidays I found this site, read the DR book, decided to go dark. By the end of Jan he starts his sobriety in AA and begins IC. End of Feb he is asking to reconcile, but every contact starts an argument. Mid March he wavers about reconciliation. H issue is that he wants me to support his sobriety and his committment to church and start over. H refuses to consider living together with my children. My issue is wanting a sober H, a stable H, and responsible H. I'm not certain he will be able to do this. H is immature and self centered. Always had someone to take care of him. I have always been overly responsible and a caretaker. I want a balanced lifestyle. One child will be going away for college soon, the other just quit and is working. Both want H to treat me better and to stop drinking. I think that covers most.
I just posted on your thread.
Catching up on your thread. I have been so busy the last few days. I will read more in the morning while baby is sleeping.
Hope you are doing well!!! You deserve so much happiness.
I just read through your summary of your sich and noticed your condition was a sober H. Ok, he is sober now and hope will stay that way but time will tell. He is pestering you to make a decision when you can't yet until he proves he will stay sober. Why don't you tell him not to ask or talk about that until its been at least the 6 month mark of sobriety?
Well if I can throw my $0.02 in...From what your saying he may be sober but he's a "dry drunk", I say this from experience. Things you may want to ask, if you can, is how many meetings is he going to a week, does he have a sponsor, ect. The biggest thing about the process is him figuring out why he drank so much until then he's is a "dry drunk"...BTW the IC may help but rehab (out patient) would probably be a better option, IF he's serious about sobriety he will find a way to go.
Ok, I was typing one handed before as I was holding baby!!
I have been told that it takes a long time to prove sobriety and that I shouldn't believe anything my exh says or does for at least a year after he is sober.
Maybe you can give a timeline like that before you make any big decisions. Might take some pressure off of you.
I have been told that it takes a long time to prove sobriety and that I shouldn't believe anything my exh says or does for at least a year after he is sober.
Maybe you can give a timeline like that before you make any big decisions. Might take some pressure off of you.
I'm going to sort of agree with this. It takes people different amounts of time. The thing is right now after rereading her post he is how I was, not using but being an a$$. I would sometimes call my wife KNOWING I was going to start a fight, that's the whole "dry drunk" part. In many ways not using is the easier it's dealing with the issues you have now that you're not numbing your emotions. Until that happens one is never really sober.
I'm afraid putting a time line on this will pi$$ him off BUT having a time line for yourself is great.
SO2,
Hi lady! Good to hear you! When I went dark in Jan I thought it would either work or not work. The operative word being that he would either get help and get back to me or not. He did get sober, and I guess his assumption was that once he was sober I would reconcile with him. I told him then that it was far more important for him to learn how to stay sober - than to worry about our R.
AT 30 days he asked to start seeing each other again, I asked him if he thought he was ready to support me - he said yes. I told him I wasn't ready. I wanted to check back in 30 days to see how things were going. He started calling me one week later - I ignored the calls. A second week later I still ignored them - but since we work at the same place - he confronted me at work. But the convo kept going to the same place where we argue so I cut it off - he stayed at it all day including giving me a lecture about how he is learning in IC that he pushes me away when he doesn't like what I say or do. AND... says I do the same thing! NOT SO! but he doesn't know the difference between pushing someone away and cutting a convo off that is headed in a bad direction. I am trying to change the negative interaction we have of arguing whenever we talk.
So, that night I call him and ask that he not confront me at work anymore. He then told me his agenda - he wants me for support in his sobriety because no one else will be there for him anymore -#2) he is being accepted into the RC church at Easter and wanted me there with him - the other part of that one is he feels he has to lie or make up an excuse for why I am not present for it. To sum up - he feels alone and wants me to be there for him. My response to him was, "how about trying the truth for a change." and "how about remembering all the times I have been there for you including the many times you tried to get sober and showing some appreciation." No response from him since.
As far as the suggestion about a timeline? When he tried to get sober in Ju'07 - I thought things would be ok. When he relapsed and stop meetings in Aug'07 my BFF suggested that I set a time line for a decision then. I knew about the "rule" for A's not to make major decisions in the first year -so I thought I would give him a year. So, I prep'd myself, things got progressively worse, until I said I had had enough in Jul'08. He moved out immediately. Since this is my second M, I wanted to take my time with a decision to end this M and examine my part in it. I really didn't want to end it at the time. After 7 months of the same while separated I accepted the idea that I might have to end it. Then he gets sober - so now I don't know whether or not to give him another year or not. I genuinely am still attracted to this man when we aren't arguing. I genuinely feel connected to him and love him. I don't know if I can live with him again though. I have thought about this a lot. I have so many horrible memories of how he treated me, his A ruined all our firsts and I don't have many positive memories.
How did you do make your decision and would you have done anything different if you had a do-over?
VolleyDog,
Hi, welcome, thanks for your comments and perspective. There's a lot of info in previous threads but I will summarize for you. This his second attempt at sobriety. The first one started Memorial Wknd '07. He went to meetings 3-5 times a week and I went to alanon at least 2 times a week. We had a great 6 weeks while it lasted - and a hellish everafter since. Altho, I can say that he did try to control his drinking often during the year. At the same time he became more difficult to live with.
This time, he immediately began attending daily and sometimes 2X a day. I think he is only doing daily now. Had a temp sponsor first month, got bored with the meetings, and then had a terrible breach of confidentiality with a priest and was referred to another sponsor. This sponsor redirected him to different meetings where he feels he is learning and this sponsor makes him call 2 or more times a day. The other thing I have some confidence about this sponsor is that his former sponsor was a friend of the real Bill W.
I also have confidence in the IC because I know him very well. He is fluent in D/A issues and MH issues which my H has both. He also was our MC and my IC before, and my son's IC, so I know what to expect. My H doesn't connect well with C but I know he liked this man before.
You can read my prior post to SO2 about my timeline thinking. I am so confused at this point. I want to be there for my H, it is my total nature to be there for people, but I feel strongly that this is something he has to do on his own or it won't happen. I hate being on the side of this and I might be wrong. But his sobriety is far more important to me than our R. surviving this.
I want him to be OK, I want him to really get to a point where he can enjoy life with whatever time he has left whether it is with me or not.
I on the other hand, am admittedly a mess of emotions and bad memories. I want to work things out, but I am tired of complications in my life at this stage. I want peace. I want to enjoy what time I have left. I still have to get my older kids out on their own successfully. I am not quite done that job but close. I am tired of caretaking and I think I will vent that one in a separate post so as not to detain you too much further.
Any additional comments are welcomed. Obviously, you see the other side and it is easier for me to hear it from you than him. I also wonder if you need the same?
Venting,
I am tired of caretaking! I took care of my father when my mother argued with him and threatened D.
I took care of my mother after he died one year later and almost gave up on life.
I took care of my brother while my mother felt sorry for herself and drugged herself up to numb the pain.
I went to school, bought the groceries, made the meals, took care of the car, did my homework, cleaned the house, and did the laundry.
I got away from home, and took care of kids' who experiemented too much, the VN vets who had nightmares and daymares. I stopped others from suicidal attempts. My roommate was a groupie who brought well known Rock bands home for breakfast while she caught up on her insulin shots and I lied to her father about where she was.
It was a long time before I married because I was so tired of taking care of others. Then the children came and guess who took care of them? while I worked? while I went back to school? while my mother was dying?
And after the D, who took care of the children? who took care of the house, the job, and everything else that happened?
I finally find happiness and he ends up turning my life upside down. He wants me to be there for him - my kids expect me to be there for them, my exh expects me to be there for the kids while he gets to do what he wants to do.
And anyone who knows what it is like, knows the list goes on.
Does anyone care what happens to me?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
I am tired and I guess it is up to me now.
I'm done now. Sorry for bending any eyes, ears, whatever...
I may have to be quick tonight as the baby is not real happy and ready for bed...
but, I think our H's are a bit different and a bit the same. Yes, they are both A's, but mine is in complete denial and tries to find ways and people to further his addiction. There is no sign of recovery for him yet. Maybe someday, but not yet. I have no idea what it would be like to live with a man in program and recovery. Every time my exh attempted to quit drinking it would only last maybe a month at most and he was white knuckling it. He refused to go to a program and get real help. Still won't.
Looking back I wished I would have done something sooner. I waited way too long and gave way too many ulitmatums and threats that I couldn't back up. Life with him was a living hell when he was drinking and even when he wasn't because he was mean and angry because he was fighting the addiction.
Hey Kassie...
I know who could really use some of your caretaking....YOU!!!
Of course you're tired. Focus on you and what you need.
Kassie it sounds like you may be going through some of the same emotions as my wife. She was never sure how seriously I took my addiction and sobriety. Our MC at the time told me this and I was shocked, I was doing everything your H is doing and thinking how could she not know...Well I never told her, like your H I wanted her support.
One day I decided to write my wife a letter telling her that my sobriety was the most important thing in my life. It was a very hard letter to word and my IC helped me a lot. The jist was that wo/sobriety I couldn't have anything else no W, no family maybe and very possible no life.
Now obviously my M is still not good, but now at least my wife has gone from I won't ever trust you again to just having some trust issues.
Maybe you can ask your H, when it seems right how important his sobriety is to him. If he tries to somehow involve you remind him that it's his journey and with or without you he has to take it.
Kass,
I am with you on the caretaking, I have tried for too many years to be there for everyone and please and take care of them all at the same time. What do we get for our efforts?...more trouble. It sucks.
I have vowed that for the time being, the only one I will REALLY take of is me. I will let others fall and make their own mistakes and hope that they learn from them. If they don't, I'm not there anymore and they will have to fix themselves.
It's a nice place to be....first for once. You know what as well? I don't feel in the slightest selfish about it. I just figure it's been overdue for too long.
Place yourself 1st Kass....without you, they will learn to cope and be better for it.
Volleydog,
Well, I know it is important to him, but he has been here before. He also doesn't ask for my support but rather insists that it is my responsibility to him. He gets angry and controlling when I don't do what he wants.
I appreciate your feedback. I can see that your sobriety and M is important to you and that you love your W and family. It is good to hear someone say that. I will send my positive thoughts and well meaning prayers for continued progress in your M.
Well put Kassie...and VD congrats to you! After being through what I have and I am sure Kassie would say the same, its nice to see some success in this disease.
Kass it must be frustrating when your H makes it your responsibility to support him and help him sober. Remember the three C's from Alanon. Wave your pom poms from a distance.
OK, H called asking to talk already. I could hear the frustration in his voice but he did not insist and he did not threaten - he just listened. My shock! I had plans already to fill the day but offerred to call when available. He was ok with that. Shock again!
The plumber kept his appt -so I got a long standing problem resolved there, but my lunch/coffee meet up with a friend fell through. So I called H and explained that my plans changed and did he want to meet after his IC. (the IC office is around the corner from my house and H lives on the other side of town.) He said he did.
We went out for a late lunch. He was blown away by something in the IC session but didn't want to talk about it. We had a polite convo during the meal and started to talk. He still wants to work on the M, and means to move back in with my kids. Shock again. I asked him how he figures he can stay sober and do that, when all I heard from him for three years was that it made him drink. Response: I didn't like the sitch, it was an excuse for my drinking, but did not cause it, my drinking caused more drinking. I can't drink anymore unless I am prepared to die. That is not a choice for me. So, I took the risk of telling him that my problem was how he treats me. Response: I am in a better position to treat you a whole lot better and I think I can.
Obviously much more was said but that is the nutshell version. I did point out that it didn't make sense to me that if he is still having difficulty with the idea of living with my children and he is... and admitting he made a mistake in getting M,... I had to wonder why bother at this point? You could stay where you are and move forward in your life and not have to deal with me or the kids any further. He seemed to feel that I was making a good point but he wants me.
What did bother me and I let it go today - is that he was not willing to discuss resolution of any problems I have brought up til now - like the car issue. His reasoning was this: we shouldn't discuss things that tear us apart if we want to try to work on getting closer. I feel two ways about that one. Any feedback from others on this?
By the way, he asked me to go to watch a movie but I told him I had too much to do - he seemed surprised but didn't push it.
{{{B}}}
I have told this a lot here and I am trying. That venting the other day was one of my efforts to shout it out without getting into trouble. I thought if I reminded myself how long and how much I do, similar to what Smartcookie did the other day, I would convince myself to shut down for the night. It worked.
Thanks for pointing it out.
Got a message after posting -evidently H did notice that we ended the convo today without any resolution. H wanted to know where we were on the R since he had planned a movie and I already had other plans after our convo. (My plans were - yep you all got to me! - just to relax at home - it actually surprised me that I said I things to do and meant it.)
Anyway, H asked me to call back to straighten things out. Hence my frustration is always that nothing ever gets resolved when we talk even if we don't fight.
Last night I noticed I walked away from lunch with a tension headache despite having a slightly elevated mood and feeling of hopefulness. I spent the evening thinking about that split. The thought of having to call and talk again about where we are - just creates more tension.
Part of me wants to forgive and move forward toward working on the M, while obviously another part thinks that it was clear from our talk yesterday that we are still at the same point - only just not arguing. We are still wanting different lifestyles.
Although in one way we both agree that the kids father should be taking more responsibility. (Like the fact that when he rented an apt after our D and wanted shared custody -but he didn't get an apt that accommodated the three of them - only two. So he has never been in a position to have them live with him.)
I don't like being of two minds.
Hey Kassie, it is frustrating not to resolve issues. One thing I learned about reading the book Controlling People, is that sometimes for people it's not about resolving the issue. It's about the pseudo issues & how one can be in a power up situation over the other. Maybe this fits your sitch ?
Take care.
Well, we talked this afternoon and it felt too pressured for me. I finally admitted something to myself and then made it clear to H - that part of me does not want to work on the M. I find H to be too difficult to talk to and reason with - on many things. He is too overwhelmed to take care of himself let alone help someone else out. H says he wants to change, and I told him to do so because it will only benefit him in the long run. I guess I am more surprised than he is about my view at this point on the M.
I will keep my mind open to the changes I see and hear him making - and I do see them. But my body tenses up which tells me that now is not the time.
Will keep you posted with updates. Don't know what I am going to do at this point. I am keeping my options open too.
((kassie)) just following along. You're in my thoughts.
Hey Kass. Remember there is no rush to make a decision. There are a few hurdles to get over first.
Hang in there.
Kass, there will be a time when you feel that you CAN make a decision. The pressure is on you at the moment as H is feeling lost. He knows what to do and needs comfort. It's a good thing that you aren't quite ready yet as I don't think he is either. He will think he is all good and nothing will sway the determination. Comfort will though. Old slippers are very hard to throw out.
Things are starting to look positive, for both of you. He is making progress with himself and you are too. Whether you meet in the middle is too early to say, but keep on the path.
You are doing great!
H response today- email request for a D.
I have decided not to respond. I told him before - if he wants one I will not argue with him.
Wed night I start looking at potential new homes for me -
I need two kinds of help: the first request is for the men to translate the following email in male language for me,
"Hi. Thanks for the weekend.( we just talked)I learned a lot. This is what I learned. The reason that I have been back and forth with this R is for the same reason as you. (not) Half of me wants to go back and the other half does not. That is why I want a divorce on one hand and do not on the other. But, what I have learned this weekend is that we are not on the same page -we never were. What I mean is that I have no say in what goes on in this R. I have to accept the way things are in your home and in your life or not. I do not accept them. I had no say in what brought things to where they are now in you life - meaning before you met me. And I do not accept your life that way it is now. So where does that leave us.. Right now I can not go back with you any more than you can go back with me. It has taken me a long time to see this(this has always been his view)but I finally have. AT some point we will have to talk about a divorce. For now, both of us going our separate ways is not only the best things that we can do but is also the right and health thing to do for both of us."
The second thing I need from everyone is some support. When I first came here I was very sad and lonely. Having people to talk to and support me helped a lot - I stopped being sad and started to do things again. Lately, I have been swimming in my own thoughts and world again which is not always a good thing.
Thanks for reading, listening and caring.
Kass...that email gave me the chills. Your H writes alot better than mine does but he always had those same thoughts. He completely blamed you for the demise of the M. I may be wrong, but he takes no responsibility for anything...at least very little. Its all about you and your lifestyle.
One time a therapist told me that exh says things like that so he avoids confronting and dealing with his own issues and guilt.
Kass,
That email could have been written by either male or female. I don't see a gender slant in it anywhere. It does tell me that H is not shouldering any blame for the demise of your M. It is a very selfish letter stating what he sees as facts. If his thoughts were always the same (ref: we never were) then why is he now talking about what is acceptable to him and from my point of view, expecting an apology and changes to come from you instead of him. He wants to take everything back to before you met and if you are not willing to change, he can walk away telling everyone that he offered an olive branch to you. (a very dirty second hand one)
He tried the "I need help with my therapy" angle, that didn't work, you didn't fall over and beg him to come back last time you met, so this is his next shot across the bows.
I don't see anything changing even if you never respond to this at all. I feel he will think for a while and then come back with another try.
How does it make you feel Kass?. I ask that, because I see it as an attempt to break you into taking the blame or becoming harder and colder towards him so he can tell everyone how you acted.
Keep swimming Kass, there's a shore out there somewhere with your name on it!
I see that differently. I see him saying that he has not felt important in your life. Like he was relegated to the backstage while you focused on other things.
I take it that you may not have seen it that way though. You may not have had thoughts like, "I'm going to focus on something other than husband - that'll show him where he stands."
I take it that he resents your focus on the kids because he wants your time. Your attention. He wants to be made to feel important to you. He may not and does not even know that himself.
Don't ask me why I can say that, please.
I think he really just wanted your kids out because he felt like they came between you two. Like he was an outsider in his own home.
Suggestion? You have very little to lose at this point. I can tell you that men who want a divorce would rarely say anything about it being in the future. They tend to show up with the papers in their hands when you least expect it. Consider making him feel important. I know that may not be what he wants right now, but try it. Try asking him why he wants the kids gone? Why is that important to him? Perhaps you didn't see why it was important to him (you assumed you knew) before and you wouldn't want to make that mistake in your next relationship, right?
I think he really wants to feel like he's an important part of your life. A priority. His way of feeling that way is what you are trying to discover.
Remember that it's never too late to reset. You both have baggage, but it may be time to find out what his perspective is. From him. I know you think the same thing because you keep asking about men's perspective.
My thoughts. My prayers are with you Kassie. It's not over. You have to believe.
AJ
SO2,
I do know that he suffers from a lot of guilt for many choices in his life and that slants his viewpoint quite a bit. Hasn't quite figured out that he gets to have some control in his life when he takes responsibility.
Silva,
I love how protective you are of me. I need that in my life right now. My feelings? a long time ago I saw this pattern where people usually either go in one direction or the other. I decided then I wasn't comfortable with either and developed a third one - I found I can survive any feeling or sitch if I remember to look at it through loving eyes - I just think to myself," love would respond in what way to this sitch" and I find my answer. That is why I choose not to respond. I knew if I tried we would argue and lose perspective. I know he will call again - and I am considering my response. I know I can't give him what he wants right now - its not about me. He will have to figure that one out in IC.
AJ,
Thanks! for responding. First, you are right to pick up on his feeling unimportant to me and our life - he's wrong and misguided on that one because of his problems. Since I have met him, my life has been consumed by him because he demands that constant attention. He does not feel good about himself because he has made a lot of bad choices which I think he regrets and can't take back.
Living with me and the kids reminds him of those bad choices. I really do see his side of things from his perspective as I have listened to it for years - problem is he has never listened to my perspective or my kids' perspective.
I only ask for the male perspective in case I am missing something like - does he really want a D? why he is waffling for so long - why can't he make his mind up? He has asked for a D since we M. I think he regrets the M. Where does that leave him? me? the M? in limbo until things go his way? Like that will ever happen? is he waiting for someone else to come along?
AJ,
Living with me and the kids reminds him of those bad choices. I really do see his side of things from his perspective as I have listened to it for years - problem is he has never listened to my perspective or my kids' perspective.
Well put. This also goes for my situation as well. Because of the A and the snowball of he** that brings looking at your face only reminds him of the person he was when he was drinking. So for them the answer is giving up and starting over again...but in reality that is just starting the same cycle somewhere else.
Thanks! for responding. First, you are right to pick up on his feeling unimportant to me and our life - he's wrong and misguided on that one because of his problems.
Can we just say that you "feel" he's wrong on that and leave it at that? You don't "know" why, although you have an opinion certainly. You feel like you made him important. He feels like you didn't as much as he'd like. At some point, you did make him feel that important. It's why he can't easily walk away like he has with others. What changed?
Since I have met him, my life has been consumed by him because he demands that constant attention.
Consumed? Really? I think you two need some counseling, but my guess is that the truth is somewhere in the middle. Something like: you treated him differently. He felt you loved and respected him. He did something and you began to get comfortable and focus on other things (seems normal to me; life is what it is.) He took that wrong and began doing childish things to get your attention. You pulled away further thinking he needed his space and that he wasn't being fair to you and treating you well. The cycle continued.
He does not feel good about himself because he has made a lot of bad choices which I think he regrets and can't take back.
He has issues. He does. But do you "know" this or are you inferring it? That's important because if you act like that's the case, you are going to get that response. If you're right, you're not helping. If you're wrong, you're not helping. It would help to ask questions at times that are appropriate.
Living with me and the kids reminds him of those bad choices. I really do see his side of things from his perspective as I have listened to it for years - problem is he has never listened to my perspective or my kids' perspective.
Me me me. Enough about you, what about me?
That's what I'm reading in that. That's not unconditional love. That's conditional. That may be because you're tired and your tank is empty. I can relate. Believe me.
Do you know he never listened to your persepective? Do you know that the kids remind of those choices and that it bothers him for that? Or could it be that he doesn't see it the same way you do? i.e. he doesn't come to the same conclusion as you and therefore must not have listened? We all do that.
I think the kids just remind him he doesn't have your undivided attention. They don't even remind him, they represent that undivided attention. I think he is needy and insecure. Not because he wants to be, but because he is. I think you may be as well. We all are to some degree.
When you drop him and run for the latest issue with the kids, what message does that send? I'm guessing that's happened and you never gave it a second thought and he didn't say anything at the time. He buried the feeling - alive. His way of dealing with it is to try to get you to kick the kids out. That's not going to work either if you ask me. The reality is somewhere in the middle. I suspect he loves you and craves your attention so much, that not getting it makes him crazy jealous. He doesn't know how to handle those emotions and you see what happens.
Him talking about D is not the same as him giving you the papers. He doesn't want that, but he may not know any other way.
I'm not sure what to do about that information Kassie. I wish I did. I think you just need to know that side of things. The rest will come to you.
You do realize I care about you, right? I really do want to see you be happily married. I do. I put out my opinion for the above with that in mind. Please take it that way and know that I won't be offended if you don't agree. I don't know your situtaion as well as you do. I don't know you or him as well you do. I do see those things as possibilities in your relationship. I do hope it helps even if some of it hurts to hear.
Humbly,
AJ
Kass,
I feel the need to respond to AJ's reply, but now is not the time.
I will re-read it tomorrow and reply.
AJ, I hear you and respect your point of view, I therefore need to take time to digest.
AJ,
I appreciate your ability to verbalize some views to help see things in a different way. Some of your questions come up because you haven't been around for all of my stitch and there's much you don't know. I can't hold that against you - I asked you to jump in without much information. Superficially you have good points and you have taken a big risk because I asked you - so I know you care.
A few points to clarify - yes I do know for a fact that he has issues which is why he has been in and out of therapy most of his life. Secondly, he has been an active alcoholic most of his life and only tried to stop since we have been together. I don't want to go into other details about his life here - because I don't really wish to dishonor him publicly.
Having said this, I wanted to bring people up to date. This a.m. he approached me at work again - angry and wanting to talk. I asked politely if he could wait til the evening and I would call him. He stormed out and practically threw his ring.
I don't know how I stayed calm. Tonight he called me first, he sounded very different. He told me several things: 1) he was ashamed of his behavior today and apologized, 2) he wants to work on getting back together,3) he wanted me to know how important I am to him, 4) he wants the chance to show me that he can treat me much better than he has, 5) he is asking to build a friendship and asks for only spending "some" time together occassionally, 6) he knows it will take time to change his behavior but he is getting help from three sources now. He was calm, polite, listened, and asked vs demanded everything. He even allowed room for input. When I gave him positive feedback for his efforts, he heard me! He felt good about it! and he thanked me for not giving up on him.
I am cautious, but these have been the gradual changes I have noted in some of our exchanges in the past month despite the negative behaviors still being there. He expressed a huge awareness of his negative behaviors and how much he dislikes them and understands why I don't like them either.
So, I think baby steps have occurred on his part. I finally heard some things that I have been waiting to hear for a long time. Thanks to exhaustive support I have had here, I did not quit and may be seeing a corner turned.
Silva, I send you more thanks just to get to this point. Regardless of where this goes or not - I realized today that I am OK and it has a lot to do with your support and protectiveness. You have seen parts of me that I forget are there sometimes. You have pushed me to expect more. Reminded me of my strengths. Mostly you just plain cared and gave me some of your precious time and thoughts.(not to mention many laughs)Li
SO2, I couldn't be at this point without you, because you remind me so much of how I feel - it stinks some of the time - but you still care. It forced me to find the middle ground, to find the place where love and sensibility intersect. Struggling with you and your stitch, pushes me to consider my feelings, the options I have, and to make decisions I can live with.
Life is an adventure.
(((Kass)))..Thank you. I too find alot of perspective in your words too. I think its because we have a little different twist in our sich's than most on here. The A throws it all into a different place and without permanent recovery for the addiction there is no way a M will work regardless of any other changes we or our H's make.
You are doing so well and it sounds like he really maybe turning a corner. He is going to meetings and I am sure doing the hard work of self discovery without the alcohol fog. Thats huge in itself.
Good to hear! I'm glad you're seeing some change and I can only hope for the best for you and your family. I hope he realizes the hurt you've experienced and is able to stick to you like you deserve (and like you stuck with him) during this process.
Be patient. I'm sure that there will be many ups and downs coming but may your ups outnumber your downs every hour. Regardless of anything else in your life that may come at you.
I truly mean that. I wish you nothing but happiness and I look forward to hearing the progress.
AJ
Well, I don't think my reply to you, AJ, would be appropriate, so I will leave it as read. Your last post says it all....care
Kass, Thank you for your kind words. I am happy to help in whatever way I can.
As for the latest...nothing more than I expected, the angry outburst then the remorse later. What I am pleased about though is the fact that friendship was mentioned. That is, in my opinion, the only way to turn this whole thing around. Back to basics. No expectations, no pressures, just a wholesome respect.
If you can get to that place together, which is down to you as much as him Kass, then it is a great place to start from. As ever though, there is no rush and 'acquaintances' will be just fine for now to allow for the detaching to continue. You are both VERY vulnerable right now and need to protect yourselves from each other.
There is something positive lurking there though, I can feel it in my bones :)....just be careful, don't go reaching out, stay within your walls a little longer.
Hi everyone,
Today, more of the same - this time positive. He talked a little more today about feeling good about our talk last night, he explained a little more about how he is catching his negative (knee jerk )reaction to things, more about how he wants to be the person I thought I M., more about his need to be tolerant, and thinking about my kids the way I do because they matter so much to me.
He promised to focus on rebuilding our M and no longer focus on all the other "stuff" he has been arguing about.
Then he admitted he had no right to ask any favors - but he did ask me to be present when he was confirmed in the church. I agreed and he responded by offering to do whatever I want for Easter Day with the kids as a family. Something he suggested be the normal from now on.
My feelings, well just as I was so honest about monitoring my physical reaction to our prior talks, I will continue to be honest now. During our talk, I felt confident and comfortable and compassionate. No more fear. Before we got into the meat of things and then it only stayed the same. Today, it was the same.
I started to be concerned when he asked to spend some time together, and to plan some time off together over the summer, he didn't ask about moving in. Big change. He also asked me to let him know whenever I had some free time, and it didn't have to be like before when it was all the time, his words," no more eggs shell walking around him". He also made a big point about speaking up with him knowing how afraid I had become because of his drinking, and learning to be myself again around him.
So, all in all, I have to admit that something feels different. Caution is still in my mind, he has a long way to go with himself, and we still a lot of rebuilding to do. Oh, he also suggested that we consider renewing our vows at some point in future to remember what we said at the beginning. He told me that he still had our wedding program and would read it from time to time. I thought there was something nice about that.
Sounds like a lot going on - it is - but he has been working up to this - I have to admit that holding the line with him really made him reach for his best. I am recalling a few weeks ago when I said I would restart contact and would only respond to the positive signs and shut down the negative ones. Will continue with that thinking.
Yay!
Sounds like positive momentum. I agree with silvagod (although not sure what the response was going to be. I'm curiuos now). Take it slow. You're both vulnerable and if you go too fast may not be able to survive the impact. Rebuild.
<hugs>
AJ
I could use some piecing tips for slow. H is an all or nothing type and is learning how to use "breaks". Goal is to reunite, but how do we know when? Why to do in the meantime? I have my ideas just putting out leads to the universe in general.
Had another positive day - he was conscious of giving me space and understanding my needs at work balanced with home responsibilities. Supported my ventures today verbally showing me that he is noticing things about me that he never acknowledged before. I also did some things for myself that he was always asking me to make a priority which pleased him as well. Hope it continues through the weekend. We have plans for Sunday.
Sounds like your H is making some real positive steps. You can see he is trying, but just wants things to go his way alot. Guess we all have that in us.
I would imagine his sobriety is something huge to him...and it should be. What they don't understand is it takes more than a few months to prove to someone that they are truly done with A. The trust needs to be rebuilt for everyone.
Yeah, I have said as much to him. I went through this with him before saying exactly the same things - but what is different this time is his thinking and reflecting on his words and behavior. If he says or does something negative, he catches himself, that is entirely new and seems to be consistent for the most part.
His goals are realistic on one level - he wants to be consistently "palpable" to me - in other words, acceptable. He is more aware of his negative traits. Like, I said, he couldn't do that before.
I will admit that I am concerned that he will try to pressure me into allowing things to return to where they were before - but be very clear - I am in a much better place now, can't be pressured into anything - I am willing to have things change in order to rebuild the R. If it doesn't work out - I am ready to be on my own again.
The recovery part for me may be the hardest part. But I realized that his reactions, words, deeds, will all reveal what I need to know at any moment. He is telling me a lot right now and I just decided to let him talk and not react to it, not try to discuss it or point out what is incorrect in his thinking. He has a therapist and sponsor to point these things out to him. I will focus on our R and it either works or not. It's that simple now. Before, I had so many things I brought into it all, and found out that none of it matters.
On my personal front, d is driving with her own car and so independent that she is actually more attached - will someone explain that one? She is definitely moving out this summer for college though and I imagine that to be the beginning of the end.
Son still looking for a fulltime job - ugh! without his degree! I can't stand it! (By the way, H says he is ready to accept that son may be around for awhile) In the mean time, I still have to see what exh is doing about his living sitch - whether he will move to another state to live with GF or stay for the kids.
I have found some possibilities for an adult community living, on the riverfront and close to work. I can do it with or without H if needed. I am in a good position right now.
I think you are in a good place. I think you have a long way to go on this journey, but I would suggest starting by learning to earn each other's trust.
How you ask? By caring for one another and allowing that to build for a bit of time. What I'm saying is that you two have hurt each other. H hurt you more. He needs a chance to not only build that trust up with you, but also to learn to make that a normal part of his life. While he fights his addiction.
Time to build trust seems important to me for some reason. Not just building it, but taking the time to build it for a strong foundation in your relationship.
Likely would be a fun time for the two of you as well.
My thoughts. I'm not in your place, so you'll have to bear with me. You may want to post over in piecing together as well.
My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family Kassie.
AJ
Go back and read your first posts here. Wow. You have come so far. Great to see.
Let us know how the day goes today with your H.
Day went well. No drinking, no arguing, one sentence about the R - and two sentences about the future. We watched concert, talked in general, catching up with latest family news ( we will be grandparents of a boy in July), no wedding date set for the other son, MIL is ok. d stopped in unexpectedly and he invited her to sit and watch the concert with us - she wanted to but had to study. Later we went to the store and ran into my s - H walked up to him and talked briefly.
The only R thing was -"this is a good day for us isn't it? they should all be like this and probably will now that I am not drinking"
The future talk was near the end of the visit when I mentioned looking at houses in adult communities. He said he wanted to move back in late in the summer but there are things to work out yet - like me needing to see that he is ok over time - and he wants to be able to deal better with my s living with us. But in an adult community that won't be possible. He said he would be happy either way. That's a first.
I was a little nervous at times when approaching subjects that used to set him off. He doesn't want me to avoid things around him. So, he handled everything well. Showed me respect in everything.
I did notice that when I felt some pressure from him, it wasn't really from him - but from me - I still want him to think the way that I think about things and it is ok to have different viewpoints. As a result of processing this thought, the pressure to try to change his mind left and I was fine. I also realized that I still do what I want, he will like it or not, and we will deal with it. New.
All in all, a good start.
Kass,
What a positive day that was
I am so pleased.
There are 2 important things in there...
H realises that he need to be consistant over time (huge step)
You realise that 2 views on one issue is quite acceptable.
They are terrific things that help relationships and I am still getting the feelgood vibe from you.
Sounds like a great day! Your H and you seem to be moving in the right direction. So glad to hear you are not rushing into R as these things take time. Take it from me.
Your H must sense that you are no longer the needy woman that had to be married at all costs. You are now an independent woman who wants to be married, but in the right way. I think I am finally getting to that point of being ok with not being married.
Hi everyone!
One week of no arguing! A first! in four years.
We are expressing differences in opinions without the fight and it is ok to have those differences. I am seeing more today how much I wanted things to go certain ways all the time to make up for the past. Decided that it must have been hard on exh and now current H to have to deal with that thinking.
I also heard today from him that he is just beginning to see things like: how what he did hurt me, how important it is for him to show me change not just talk, that I have needs too. Last night I forgot to tell how I needed some medicine and asked him to take me to the store. He agreed without any problems, then began joking about my way of inserting two errands into one. But when the first place did have it, I said I would have to go in the morning on my own. He said, no, you need it tonight we will go to another store. We did, and at first I couldn't find it, so he said well guess we will have to go to a third store. We did end up finding it at the second one - but it was different for him to want to help me.
Later he wanted to apologize for the past again as he says he keeps seeing more of the damage he caused to the point of being overwhelmed. Added that he is also seeing how hard I tried to keep things together for us - and says it is now time for him to show me what he can do right.
Again, a good day.
SO2,
It took a long time for me to get to the point where it didn't make sense anymore to live that way. Everyone wanted me to leave him, but I didn't want to be alone and I thought I could help. It was SIL that made the most sense to me when he told me how unhappy his father was - not with me but his life - he told me that he advised his father to be happy whatever it takes even if it means drinking and losing me and the life he has. I didn't like what he said, but I realized then that H wasn't happy and it wasn't about me. He did want to drink, was miserable without it, and that is when I began to let go. I did it gradually thinking if I can do this a little at a time I will be OK.
It happens in stages, and it is still being worked on, I don't know if we will live happily ever after or not right now. That isn't the point - it is how we get there or not get there.
I am a little uneasy, but there are definite changes that get my attention.
Love to hear from all.
Everytime I read your thread I am amazed. Your H seems to be waking up to the turmoil his drinking has caused. When they are in active A they are so defensive when you try and tell them about their behavior that its not worth it. Your H really is making progress.
I know the drinking isn't about us. Its all about them and their miserable lives. Its such a viscous cycle. They drink, they feel like crap about themselves which makes them drink more to escape. An alcohol therapist told me asking exh to quit drinking was like asking me to go into the woods naked. Strange I know but he was trying to say that I would be scared and uncomfortable. So would exh in his mind if he quit drinking. Its become a security blanket for him.
I love reading your thread. Nice to see some good stuff happening in you!
Kass,
I can say with hand on heart, that I think your H is starting to feel better for not drinking. That is why he is 'suddenley' realising what a fool he has been. He is not out of the woods by a long chalk, but it's a very very positive step.
I also think that you have been and still are handling it beautifully. Keep on doing what you are doing. This has positive written all over it!
Hi Kassie,
Thanks for posting to me. You were right about our situations being different. i haven't read all of yours, but some.
i think it's great that he's not only acknowledging how he may have hurt you in the past, but he's remorseful. I think that's one of the great things about when people decide to be sober. They really take a good hard look at who they are and what they've done.
Be cautious, but also supportive. They advise people in recovery not to get into relationships within the first year... It's an unstable place. My FIL has 18 years next week, but he still goes to meetings a couple times a week. He has a sponsor. He works an honest program cause it's all one day at a time no matter how long you have.
I think you are doing great.
If i'm off base with anything, i'm sorry...
take care
ann
Today, again we we were talking and I started to react to things he was saying. Caught myself and he checked on my later to see if I was ok with what he said or not. I was able to tell him that I am still reacting to things he says but I know when it is happening and hopefully he can see me controlling it. H response was that he sees my struggling and reacting, but also sees me trying to be more accepting and hoped that the more important part of our interactions is that I see his changes. He told me that he appreciates my efforts but feels it is his responsibility to be showing me things more.
He also said something very important - we reminded me that with our backgrounds, we have an exceptionally difficult time accepting any negative interaction or comments without wanting to push the other one away. He said that the past week has shown him that while we have a long way to go, the changes are coming, we are managing to talk things through instead of arguing and withdrawing. He has a renewed hope in our M and success in the future. He says that he couldn't fully committ to the M but now is convinced it is what he wants.
He called later to see if I was still ok with today and to remind me that he is committed this time.
He also has started his marathon training and wanted me to know that he signed up for a run next month and invited me to be there. We exchanged small talk and I made a joke about him and he really appreciated that my sense of humor was back.
H has 60 days!
SO2,
It is nice to hear that someone is benefiting and appreciating my journey as one who is going through it herself. H explains to me now how he thought when drinking. Nothing really made sense, his only focus was on himself and when he could have his next drink. He did not see or hear any of my thoughts or feelings at the time. Mind was too foggy. H is also dealing with a S who is actively drinking and screwing up worse than he did. His wedding is off and the GF is trying to get him out of her family's home. S has sent nasty messages to H.
Also found out that DIL is having a boy!
D18 after one week of driving, has been in her first accident but is fine. S21 is still looking for a job. Kids seem happy to see H and I together again.
Silvagod,
I so appreciate your comments. I am really surprised at how much I am learning as H and I talk through things and just enjoy spending time together. He is very sensitive toward keeping things light and non stressful. Yesterday I started to react and then told him that I was feeling very stressed and he started to leave and returned saying he wanted to reduce my stress not increase it. Asked what to do, what to say and then did it. I knew it was me but he wanted to make things better for me.
I expected to see gradual changes in him, I didn't expect to see so much for myself. I can only imagine that it has to do with the support I have had on this board.
I was in a very bad place when I started. It took awhile to regroup and find myself again. I knew I was in there somewhere. But I didn't expect the other.
Ann25,
Thanks for the response and it sounds like your break was good for you.
Things have changed a lot for my stich since I posted on yours.
Hope you are finding your answers, if you need anything from me just post.
Kassie!
I have been catching up on your thread. How absolutely AWESOME! There are great things happening in your situation!
You are in my thoughts and prayers that things will continue to proceed forward for you and your H ..
Best,
Rustie
Another good day! I overslept and got into work late so we didn't have time to talk. We both had a very busy day. At the end, he said we could talk tommorrow as he had RCIA classes tonight. But he called tonight. I was anxious all day that he would be upset with me as he has in the past. He wasn't, he just wanted to make certain I was ok.
After being worried all day, I realized once again how we get triggered and reactive to previous patterns. It is going to take time to adjust to the changes - not that I am complaining. It is refreshing. I went from wondering what am I doing with him to ahhhh this feels good.
Still learning.
Thanks everyone for the support. I know things are not in the clear, lots to work on going forward - very much needed changes, but I wouldn't be where I am without you.
Awesome! Keep it up, Kassie.
Ditto! Keep up the changes! Go back and read your posts from the very beginning. You have come so far.
Good Idea SO2, I have done that several times on various boards and also my personal diary...what a difference in everything!
Kass, I was skipping over your last couple of posts, and one phrase jumped at me...I overslept....That in itself is a great pointer to your current state of mind. Relaxing enough to oversleep. Go you!
Nice to hear the cheering!
Have to admit that I started the day oversleeping again, but this time my d came and woke me on time - another first.
But the day took a different turn - an old issue that caused much grief and arguing surfaced, we tried to contain it - didn't work. Though we did talk it through instead of just arguing! We stayed in communication - what a difference!
It started to go down the same old cheesetunnels - he not wanting to move back in with the kids there, and me thinking this is no way to be M. I basically took a stake and plainly said - if you expect to work on rebuilding this R and M, then it is with the kids or not at all and I can accept - not at all. I just can't accept - waiting to rebuild until they move on. His response was initially the same. We ended the convo.
He went to church, called to say he was wrong about everything, and as hard as it is for him to turn things around - he is willing to do that now - M with kids if necessary. I was shocked. I never thought he would go there. And sad as it is - I had finally reached a point where I couldn't move forward without that committment. Didn't think he would. Two surprises!
Part of me is wondering, how is this all happening? God does work overtime and I do believe my H loves me more than anything else. H is becoming so much more the person I thought he was when I met him. Not perfect, just open spiritually.
I know I havent' said as much here, but I am a person of strong faith and have always lived my life that way. That is what attracted me to my H in the first place. He lit up when talking about spiritual things with me. Somehow he got lost and now it seems that he is finding his way back.
A few days ago I did go back and read from the beginning and saw the changes. That is why I keep thanking everyone here for their support, because I wouldn't be where I am now without it. You all had a part in bringing me back to life. I will never forget that. It may seem that I say it a lot, but the truth is, I don't have any family to turn to, my kids are preping to leave home, I had no one to talk to. You all, listened and encouraged me. Not just to reunite, but to be myself again, whatever the outcome.
Last night I was asking my d if she would be ok living here on term breaks with my H here. She said it was fine. I was able to promise her that what happened before would not happen again. She said, she knew that. I told her that I was finally ok whether it worked out or not, and she smiled and said she knew that now. Wow! (but the way, she picked out a college! and has a huge scholarship! Phila Biblicial Univ. - she's majoring in Christian Music Leadership) - her church has offered her an internship as Worship Director too.)
Now I just need to get my S a fulltime job or back in school.
sounds like some really good positive movement. Way to go.
Take your time.
Great news Kassie! Congrats on your daughter and her school. What a relief. Its such a huge transition when they are about to leave the nest (although mine haven't yet). My almost 18 year old is chomping at the bit. She thinks that come June she will be 18 and a high school graduate and on her own. She is going to college but doesn't realize she will still need her dad and I.
If you and your H can catch yourself before the old issues get to be huge mountains that is a huge positive step. I guess find other ways to communicate about it.
Doing great!
Well folks, that little recap of issues turned into more the next day. H is still sober but I have withdrawn. He handled it a "little" differently than before - he was very angry about the sitch and felt that he just couldn't handle the stress. H said that he will not move back until kids are out of the house.
He wants to be friends and date in the mean time - I am thinking about what I want - and that is not to have to wait to be with my H - I didn't get M to live separately and be alone. I do not want to live on a roller coaster - and I do not want to be with someone who cannot think about anybody but himself.
I don't know if I am being too harsh, but I think I would feel differently if he wasn't so admant about not moving back until things are differently with me. H has the problem, H left, H is wanting his cake and icing without being responsible.
We don't have a long prior happy history, we have little basis to build a foundation based on the past - I see changes - but I am tired. If I am "reacting" too quickly or expecting too much too soon, let me know. On some level I know it is too soon to expect much change, but to think that I have to wait another 18 months before we live under the same roof while I struggle alone and live in limbo is not appealing at all.
Sorry to have such a mixed report so soon, but I imagine it is to be expected. Looking for input.
Why doesn't he want to live with your kids? I don't get that. When he married you he knew it was a package deal! Do your kids know he doesn't want to live with them? Its not like they are toddlers, they are teens ready to leave the nest. Sorry Kass, that baffles me.
Take a step back and evaluate what YOU want.
It's complicated. It isn't personal. He has a stress disorder. No surprise there. He and they don't dislike each other - and get along. There are no complaints either way.
I am evaluating what I want, have been since coming to this site. I don't know if he can give me what I want but he is doing what I asked to address his problems.
His problem with our M is the sitch . My problem is with him. He doesn't understand the difference in our problems. He thinks he can be what I want without the drinking. I have my doubts.
Feeling lonely over here. Things feel like they are teetering.
Hey Ms. Kassie..
Here's a hug and a snuggle? What's up?
*hugsnugs*
Uh Oh! Whats going on?
(((Kass)))
I don't like being separated, I don't feel he is really working on the M if he chooses not to work on coming back for 18 months when his lease is up in four. I feel that if I date him under these conditions that I am the only one working on the M. I also feel that he puts the R for our M on me choosing the kids or him. I feel like he is playing a game of wanting his own way and getting out of the M but blaming me for placing my kids before him.
Any one see another way? Am I blaming him or holding him responsible?
I just want to say thanks to everyone for your support.
I decided I am done.
This is my good bye.
Kasss.....What? Are you leaving the boards?
I hope you're reading this, Kassie.
Any one see another way? Am I blaming him or holding him responsible?
I can honestly say I understand how you feel. As things change, all that pent up hurt and frustration come rushing back so fast you almost can't breathe.
Kass, I think you're blaming him . I think you're holding him responsible. I think you need to find it within yourself to reconsider. I think this is what you have been hoping and praying for and as you go through it the pain is incredible and you are not feeling like you can tolerate it a moment longer.
I think you should take a deep breath and reconsider and understand this in the larger perspective. This is not an unexpected set-back. There will be a few set-backs on the way. Your feelings are raw. You hurt. So does he. You feel like he should take your feelings into account and work for them. I can't disagree but you have to see that this is not going to be a smooth road to recovery. Work to be done.
Please reconsider.
AJ
Hey Ms. Kassie..
A marriage consists of two individuals committing their lives to each other.
Your spouse has just started his recovery and will be whacked out for at least a year. In AA sobriety comes first. If you protect your sobriety, you get to keep everything in life. Without it, you lose it all.
You entered the marriage with two children as your priority. Even though your children are getting older they're almost pawns in how the marriage will and won't work.
Each of you have absolutes. The question is.. which are necessary, which are negotiable?
Do you go to Al-Anon meetings? This is a brave new world both you and your husband are entering.
*hugs*
Oh Kassie! I miss you. I hope you are ok.
KASS!!!!!!
What ARE you doing. You can't just up and leave like that...who am I going to dance with????
If the truth be known, and you take a look back through my threads, I was in your place Kass. One of my final comments was that I was 'done'. I was too. I had enough emotional turmoil, enough pain, enough anger. I just 'gave up'. It was the best thing I did too. A few days later, my old self started to poke his head out and say hello...now he is back wiht me big style!
Take time out Kass, regroup your feelings, do NOT think about anything, just do!. Then please please come back here and tell us that you are ok!!
Huge Hugs to you.
(sorry all for jumping into the discussion here, but I didn't know how else to reach her.)
Kassie-
I am so sorry to hear that you are leaving. You helped me out a lot and appreciate your positive outlook and help in getting me to do the same. I know that you did not make this decision lightly, but I hope that you are getting the support you need while going through this. You're always welcome here, I'm sure, and I am sad to see you leave. Hopefully you'll read this and hopefully you'll decide to at least stick around awhile longer for the extra support.
MRLost
Kass,
If you are out there, I am thinking of you.
Hope you are ok.
Hey Kassie
Just wanted to say that I hope you are ok
Jx
Still here Kass, still wondering how you are
Hi everyone!
I'm back. I blew a fuse - all that pent up frustration from the past. I thought when H became sober, things would be different. But change comes slowly and it is happening. H has 90 days, still attends meetings, goes to church, keeps up with therapy.
He is showing a new understanding of our M, he takes responsibility for his part in tearing apart our R. No more conflict, no more walking on eggshells, and we talk. He is understanding of my position and feelings now more than ever. He listens and compromises. He isn't giving up.
We were stuck before - his issue with the kids and my issue with our R. Well, he finally saw my point, agreed with me and agreed to move back in with the kids until they were ready to go. Imagine his reaction when he learned that both are moving out this summer for their own reasons - D got a scholarship to college and S (who dropped out of college) is working and plans to live with friends.
I will be moving to piecing soon as we are working things out and he plans to move back in this summer. I have a lot to work out myself together with him, but the past few weeks he has shown me sides of him I never saw for more than a few minutes before - now it is there all the time.
Thanks again to everyone for your support because I wouldn't be here without it.
Yes Silva - you have your dance partner back!
SO2, AJM, JCJ, Mr Lost I am back and ok. I will be here briefly and then move to peicing for obvious reasons.
Gypsy welcome! Wise advice as always- thanks! Please follow along if you can.
Kass,
All I can say is GREAT!!!
What sort of celebratory dance shall we do?
YEAH Kassie! I am so glad you are back.
Glad to hear you and H are moving in the right direction. 90 days sober is fantastic!
I could use your insight on my thread. My exh is drinking more than ever and really making bad choices. I am backsliding and seem obscessed in finding things as I know our court time is coming pretty soon. Want to be prepared.
Forget moving to piecing... H has flaked out on me again. No drinking but he has changed his mind about moving in with me. Didn't like something I did. H way of punishing me - but guess what - he is the one losing too.
I will focus on moving the kids forward and then will do the same for myself. I may be overreacting because this could be anticipated, but I am tired and too old to go through this anymore. If he wants to be jealous, insecure, controlling and self centered - then let it be - but not with me.
What a dissappointment! I really saw and heard changes. This is his old stuff. He may rebound but I'm not rebounding so easily these days.
I am sorry Kassie! I was cheering for you. What were his reasons?
At least you were prepared and stronger mentally.
((HUGS)))
Believe it or not he got jealous because my exh and I took our son out to dinner for his BD and bought him a present together. When H and I discussed what to do on Mother's D, he suggested that I spend it alone with the kids and plan to start celebrating holidays together Memorial Wknd to give them time to adjust to our reconciliation. So I didn't ask him to dinner. I also saw as a last dinner with him living at home.
Kass,
I am sorry to hear of your latest set back. I can fully understand and agree with your reluctance to stand by and let it happen then forget about it. It's been too long getting to this point to go back to the 'old' you.
In a way, I think you were half prepared for this to happen, but hoped it wouldn't. You never know, if you stay on your own path he might just find that he prefers the 'strong' Kassie.
I know controlling people actually like to be controlled themselves. It's a comfortable arena for them. Persuading them of this is difficult when you are close.
I have a completely different relationship with my new 'friend' than I have EVER had before and it's a lot, lot better.
There is no need for control as I am perfectly happy on my own now and know that I can survive without someone else. I just happen to PREFER to be with someone at the moment. It's a CHOICE not a requirement. I hope that your H can start to feel that way about you and him as well.
I'll be sending you good wishes over the weekend!
Thanks for responding. Don't know what will happen - he was calling all night and this a.m. to argue. I kept cutting off the phone and refused to listen to the messages. I also called him back and plainly said that I didn't want to hear from him anymore.
This afternoon he called, sounded different and asked to talk things through admitting that he over reacted. Not very DB I agreed that he overreacted and just doesn't think about anyone but himself. H asked me to go to MC with him to help him understand my viewpoint... sounds good on the surface but I know him. This is his old behavior minus the drink.
That is my game plan - to be myself - and I think he is struggling with me. I am so different from anyone he has ever met (people usually say that about me) and I have a complicated life - I am a complicated person to a point.
H called late in the day and requested a talk to resolve this matter as he admits he overreacted. Not very DB of me but I told him that I much too angry and hurt to have a rational convo. Then he asked me to meet him at therapy tommorrow to start working on our R. What's that? H thinks he can tell me one minute he wants the M and when things don't go his way he can quit? and once he cools down its on again?
Again, not very DB, but I told him that I didn't want to see or talk to him. I have had enough with the drama and uncertainty.
Kass,
Good for you for sticking to your guns. There comes a time when the DB methods are not particularly the best ones to use. In your case, you act the way you feel and I personally feel that is a good way to be.
Only you know your H well enough to see through him, we can only guess and offer advice based on one side and one point of view.
I have seen this behaviour before though, when things don't work, this type of person reverts to the most recent 'working' method until things settle, then slip back to their own way again.
The only way out of this for him is to TOTALLY come clean and change. Something that if it's not part of his 'core' self, he will be unable to do.
Just ensure that you are as happy as you can be with your decisions Kass, and stick to them.
I'm here rooting for you.
Question... he has been leaving messages - apologizing for overreating, explaining "his" problem and after IC says his therapist thinks he can help him with his issues and help us to reconcile differences. I had been telling H that he has to consult with his IC about the timing of MC given what he is working on in IC. Therapist recommends waiting a bit. The IC knows us both very well and I think he has always thought that it was workable with some hard work on both parts.
How do I know whether to keep trying or not? He is working hard on his issues and wants to be with me but everytime I begin to feel good about him and make plans for the future - he flakes out. I do believe that he needs time - but I can't help but feel abandoned and dissappointed - I didn't get M to live apart and have to work so hard at this age.
Any suggestions on how or where to draw lines.
Why do you think he flakes? Do you think he gets scared and feels like when times get tough or there is a decision to be made he feels overwhelmed so its easier to run? No way an excuse as we are adults and not children. I just don't understand not working on your issues right away.
You are staying strong in what YOU want. Keep it up. It seems like your H needs to stick with one path instead of two.
Hi Kassie,
Great to hear from you again. It seems your H is pursuing you big time and then, like you said, flakes out - "Run away, run away!" (Monty Python)
but I can't help but feel abandoned and dissappointed - I didn't get M to live apart and have to work so hard at this age.
I agree. Way too much work. Maybe you two are talking way too much and working way too hard. I know this sounds simplistic but can you just do fun things together for awhile? No R talk, no "work"?
H has always had things his way - never had to be responsible as others often took care of him. Typical A stuff. He didn't learn to be responsible or think about anyone but himself. He also never grew as a person and doesn't really know himself. IC is helping him with this.
As far as just having fun - I have tried and insisted on this but he can't relax that way - outside of physical contact he prefers to do solitary activities. Remember, until now, he has spent most of his days staying at home and drinking. I am used to doing things with others or enjoying most activities - I can have fun doing anything.
He can't be around me without R talking. He is either planning things to do together, (which we never end up doing)or complaining about the way things are, (but not resolving a thing) or analysing everything said or done to death.
My major issue is that everytime he doesn't like something I do - it becomes a reason to move out or leave or get a D. Then days later he apologizes and asks to work it out but it never gets worked out.
When I agreed to date last month, the pattern of arguing or walking out or canceling plans continued. Although he has been changing attitudes gradually, for instance, one week ago I agreed that he could move back in Aug. and we started to make plans for the move. Less than one week, and he says he isn't prepared to handle things. Now he apologizes and wants to get back on track and I am not certain I can do that anymore. I can't believe a word he says, and don't trust him. How can I move forward with this?
You can't move forward. Not when he waffles back and forth with his thinking. I am guessing it is part of the A behavior.
Happy Mother's Day Kassie!!!!
I saw this on another website (alcoholic related). It fits my exh to a T from when he was living here and now. It may or may not with yours, but thought it was interesting. Sorry its long.
From the Abuser's Point of View
I should avoid emotional closeness, because it leaves me vulnerable and open to hurt. I will adopt an attitude of aloofness and indifference to keep my partner from getting a piece of me. Besides, if I let my partner get into my head, I will be under her rule and will be smothered. I will lose myself. To prevent this, I will subconsciously and consciously distance myself from my partner to keep her from overtaking me, while giving her fleeting moments of tenderness to keep her near me.
Here’s how I’ll go about it.
I will put off her requests for closeness, for talks and for time alone together. I will interrupt her and dismiss her opinions. I will show little interest when she wants to share an insight or a story from her day, and I will not share mine. When she hears me share something with someone else and asks. “Why didn’t you tell me that? I will say.” Or “I didn’t think you’d be interested” or “I forgot.” I will scoff at her interests as well as her choices and habits. Also, I will make sure I don’t miss a chance to point out with a tone of superiority and rightness-- how opposite or different her choices and habits are from mine. This helps prove that any attempts at working on our relationship will likely fail, since we are so different and thereby gives me more reason to distance myself.
I will spend my time at home on house projects, watching TV, reading magazines or playing with the kids anything and everything to leave no time for us to have a private moment. I will stay up each night later than her to avoid any closeness when we go to bed, then tell her she needs too much sleep. If I want to have sex, I will wake her from her sleep and began touching her, knowing she’ll respond because I’ve minimized affection and she’s craving any intimacy I’ll offer. When I am not at home avoiding her, I will pursue activities outside the home and not include her or forget to tell her about my activities until the day of the event, thereby leaving little possibility that she can attend with me.
To keep her within arm’s reach, I will occasionally throw out a “we should do X.” I may even really mean to do something with her, but I won’t ever make it a priority so that other things I have to do will always come first... I will leave my schedule open to attend whatever event I want, work on any project I want, or go out with friends (without considering that I should find a sitter because I know she’ll be home). But I will raise a fuss when she decides to take a night off from the house and the kids without getting my OK. After all, she always checks with me to see if I’ll be home, so if she doesn’t check, she must be punishing me, and I will call her on it. I will evade suggestion from her for a night out together or will commit to a night out grudgingly and without any sign of enthusiasm. When she stops initiating dates for us and then later complains about our lack of fun time, I will (with irritation in my tone) remind
her that she needs to initiate it I can’t always be the one initiating.
If she asks that we have a talk, I will put on my game face of mild irritation at her demand that I share. I
will let her run the talk, not offering much input and not validating her opinions. If she pushes ANY buttons or requests any changes in my behavior, I will unleash my rage and feel it is my entitlement to cut her, criticize, accuse her of riding me and then leave the room or the house, so that she can’t continue talking to me. Her talking is just a cover to get a chance to bitch at me anyway. When she sets up a session with a counselor, I will go so that no one can place blame on me for not going. Then I will tell the counselor that the reasons we have problems is that we are very different people so we can’t communicate with each other.
Once in a while, I will throw her a crumb and share a thought or a hug with her. Or, at the spur of the moment, I will decide -- without asking her first -- to take her out to dinner so that she can’t say to her friends or my family. He NEVER spends time alone with me. I will subvert any attempts from her to talk about us spending more time together during these rare occasions when I do spend a night with her.
I will show disgust at her lack of confidence and insecurities. Then I will bring up her tender spots (insecurities) whenever it helps me gain the upper hand or control in an uncomfortable situation. That way, the focus of whatever comes up is shifted away from me and onto her unreasonable insecurities.
When she reacts to any of this with anger or other high emotions (yelling, getting hysterical, crying, bawling, or walks around joyless and bitter), I will offer very little comfort, concern, reassurance or attention. After all, she is trying to punish me with all her hysterical and depressing emotions, and I don’t need the hassle.
Her anger and emotional reactions provide good reasons to keep distancing myself from such an intentionally hurtful person. I will make sure I tell my friends and family that her only moods are depressed, hysterical, joyless and bitter, and nothing I do is ever enough for her. That way I can make an ironclad case that proves to everyone, including myself, that it is her fault when she leaves me.
I just wanted to acknowledge that H did admit he was wrong to be jealous of my exh and that no matter what he felt, he should not have reacted as he did.
We had some interesting talks this weekend - he seems to be getting a lot from IC and the meetings (he went to a lot of them this week and weekend). I continue to hear some changes in his thinking and admissions of both positive and negative thoughts not able to voice before.
We discussed ways to make our R more "friendly" and less focused on problem solving. He is still getting used to the idea of seeing things from another person's perspective and in this case my perspective - increasing his awareness of how it might feel to be in my shoes looking at him and the things he did. I think he is getting it.
Just trying to acknowledge the things that are working.
SO2,
I will have to think about what you sent. My H isn't into not having time with me - it is more about wanting things his own way and that includes as much time with me as possible - something that isn't always what I want. One thing that AA and church have encouraged in his life is more socialization. IC encourages do more on his own and allowing some separation between us.
By the way, MOther's Day was great! My S researched menus for a gourmet brunch and did all the cooking. It was wonderful - a lot of my favorites. It always amazes me when I can see that the kids notice what I like or what pleases me. D stayed home for the day which is unusual and I showed some of the homes I was looking at since she will most likely be staying there too.
Glad you had a good day. I did too.
I wasn't sure if the article was for you, but thought I would run it by you anyway. It sure summed up my life.
Silver Fox,
Just wanted to say Hi! and thanks for pointing out how H is pursuing me. I forget that he is working so hard sometimes when things don't go so well. H has 100 days!
I am having a hard time - thinking too much - mostly how much I am afraid that I cannot go forward with H as much as he is trying. Maybe MC will shed some light when we get there. In the mean time I told him I wasn't ready to move in together and he is still pushing for it. It just feels like too much for me right now.
Kass,
Before you get lost in your feelings again, remember where you were a couple of weeks ago and thaat you felt better than you do now. Don't let yourself slip back into the same state of mind.
Ease up on yourself and just take what you want out of each day and let the rest slip by.
Don't presuppose that MC may help, don't even think about it until you get there. That way, whatever comes out of it will be useful and not disappointing.
Chin up girl!
Agree with Silva. Just keep on with your day and don't make any decisions yet. See what happens in MC. It may make things clearer or it may not.
Either way you have proven to yourself you don't need H nor to be married. It would be nice, but you are not settling.
I'm listening. A few weeks ago I gave H a chance and it was good. What was good was a change in attitude and communication with me. His mind was more open and we were talking through differences, accepting more etc.
When he reverted back to old ways, so did I. He recovered and apologized and opened up thoughts and feelings he had that blew me away in a good way. I was still the angry one and wouldn't respond right away. When I didn't, he reverted again. And then made a come back the same day. Voiced even deeper thoughts and feelings.
I have been torn between not being comfortable with moving back in together and making any definitive plans for the future because of the recent changeability.
He is putting pressure on me to move back in, but has added that he wants to talk to the kids and offer to work things out with them staying home if they want to change their plans. He says he has accepted his role as a stepfather, accepted we are a family and is ashamed of his prior behavior. Ashamed of how he treated his "family" by not recognizing them as such.
His words are everything I want to hear. My fears are still present, fear of living under the same roof, fear of him not being able to handle things, fear of being hurt again. My fears keep me from wanting to be close to him right now.
I have been trying to find a way to reconcile my fear of him, and wanting to be supportive of the changes in attitude. He says he will be accepting of whatever my decisions are.
After reading the feedback I think I have figured it out... see what you think...
I can tell him that i am not ready to have him move back in... I know he has to give notice in the next few weeks... it isn't my problem - it is his to figure out right? We have yet to start MC and there is no way to know how that will go. If I can't give him a date to move in - then it is "his" decision to give notice and take his chances or not give notice and deal with the separation longer than wanted right?
I have been accepting the pressure of making a decision within his timing instead of putting it back on him. It is a sucky sitch with the apt wanting 90 days notice of a move out and only offering 12 month leases at a time instead of month to month. I guess that is his problem to solve right?
I just have to express my feelings that I am not ready and let him deal with it. Right? Let me know what you think? Back to my solid self ? It feels that way. Thanks! I feel so much better!
It is true that I know I can survive with or without him, but he is finally doing things the way I wanted, with a few setbacks along the way which is to be expected. I can see tonight that my problem is that I assume too much responsibility for decisions and need to share it more. Wow... I really feel much better.
Thanks for reading!
Sounds like you feel alot of pressure from him. He is feeling pressure to give notice or not and whether he is going to move. Like you said...that is his problem. I wouldn't rush the move back until you know things are ironed out for good.
(((Kass)))
Kass,
I am glad that you are feeling your own internal strength has returned. That is the main thing for you.
Regarding the apartment and notice etc. I would agree with you that it is H's problem. However, if there is a possibility that you may reconcile and move back together prior to the annual lease finishing, then why not dicuss this possibility with H. Be honest and tell him that you cannot say for certain when or if, but at some point in the future, you may be in a position together to move in. Tell him that you don't like the pressure, you want to make a decision that you BOTH are happy with. If that means that you may have to sort out the accommodation later in the year, so be it. It's his problem whether he is willing to allow this to happen. He has to be agreeable to your wishes as you need to take his into account (albeit on a lesser basis)
If he is serious about change and is willing to make the effort, then he should also be willing to renew his lease and sort out what to do when the time is right.
It's your call Kass, don't be pressured. Pass that mantle to H!
I told H yesterday that I didn't feel comfortable with the idea of making plans to move back in right now. That could change in a few months if we continue to work things out. The evidence of my willingness I explained to him is that a few weeks ago I said yes to Aug, but when he resorted to old patterns of pulling away when he doesn't like something I do, and suggesting a D - I can see that he isn't ready.
I also said that I understand the pressure to make a decision with the apt lease is a problem here - but decided that it wasn't my decision but his to make. Meaning this - he can sign another year and be committed to working things out or not. He can choose to take the chance that he will have to move somewhere else if things don't work out - or that they will work out. A lot of this is up to him.
His initial response was to agree to sign on for another year but said if we don't work it out then we need a D. Later in the day he was feeling low and asked if I we shouldn't just get a D anyway because it didn't seem like I was really interested in him anymore.
I plain out told him that this is the behavior/response that turns me off and is part of the reason we are in this position now. I can't move forward with someone I cannot depend on. I will not stay in a M where I am threatened with D everytime he doesn't like what I say or do.
H response was to listen, agreed to talk to IC and AA members about this behavior and to work on it.
Let's see what today brings.
Have a nice day/evening Silva!, SO2 !
Kassie,
I'm pretty sure your H is scared while I think 100+ days is GREAT it's still a short time. I doubt he's worked through his problems totally about why he drank.
I think you are absolutely doing the right thing in not letting him move back in you're not ready and neither is he. He wants to show you he's changed and I'm guessing he is getting frustrated that you may not see them(in his mind). I think he is also scared of relapsing and thinks that if he can get the M right everything else will fall into place which is wrong. Taking things as slow as possible is the best thing for both of right now.
Well, no surprise, this a.m. he calls me to say that I don't have to hear the D word from him anymore - because he just QUIT. This is too hard. Can't do it. He said he took off his ring and I should take off mine.
I called back and said OK, send me papers.
He called back and I didn't listen to it all - just heard I'm not planning on doing that yet..... and I erased the rest.
Was determined to let go all the way this time. Knowing he will
be calling when he has had time to think about it. Help me stay strong - this is taking a lot out of me.
OMG Kassie. I am so sorry. I don't know what to say. I often wonder with A's if they lose their capability to deal with conflict. I just thought it was my exh. Now I am beginning to wonder.
I am here for you girl!
Yeah, A's missing out the normal experience of learning how to deal with any emotions. Part of the difficulty in the healing process is learning to cope with their emotions.
You're getting it. It isn't anything you or I do - it a deficiency in their learning.
You're very correct we need to learn to deal with feelings wo/chemicals and it's hard and takes a long time.
Kassie I'm so sorry for you.
Kass,
Stay upbeat as best you can. You have to look on whatever comes your way as a matter of fact and nothing else. You have been through such a lot of ups and downs lately and unfortunately I don't think it's over yet. (the turmoil)
I think it was an impulse act by your H. He is looking for strength from you and you have none to give. He doesn't seem to be able to realise that HE must find it within himself and can't expect you to be there 100% of the time.
I think he will still ebb and flow a little yet. Question is, do you want to go with that or have you hd enough yourself.
Whichever way it goes, it won't be easy. I am in a new relationship, a very happy one, but there is still a lot of mess hanging over my head and I haven't manage to dislodge all the upset that was caused by my W breaking up my family. I am getting there and the majority of the time I am Ok, but now and again I just feel tired of it all. With you, it's even tougher as you are on your own and have no 'sounding board' or arms to comfort you. (I am here virtually for you, but it's not the same!)
I had a rush of feelings shortly after I gave up drinking and I was SO happy to even be crying. (weird but true) I had been emotinally 'flat' for many months. I wasn't drinking that much, but combined with my AD's, it affected me. From that time, I know that I can feel, act and respond with emotion and it's a lovely thing to do. Maybe H hasn't acheived that yet or is afraid of it?.
I know you will be OK whatever the outcome as you have found so much more of Kassie than perhaps even YOU knew about!
Take Care
Here's where I stand... I am tired of the drama... I want to walk away... sometimes think it will be easier for him if I do that... but we both have a lot of feelings for one another which makes it hard to leave. If I could figure that part out for myself I would be in a better place.
Kass...can you send some of your strength my way? If I was half as strong as you I would be so much farther down the road mentally than I am now.
Have a good weekend.
Not so sure if it is strength or stupidity or stubbornness... but i think you are doing your best and improving your own strength so much.
So, as expected... well not so expected... I was really bothered by this week's 'problem of the week"... maybe it was because we didn't argue. Anyway, I called him this morning with a question - at the time I had no thoughts of working things out or not - just had a question to be answered. He answered. I didn't like the answer at first and then realized he was right to focus on his sobriety.
He calls after his IC and then we talked later. He discussed his quitting behavior in IC esp with me. Tells me he really has no intentions of "really" quitting us and learned some other ways to handle sitch when he doesn't like it. Then mentioned that another part of his IC was his admission that being sober is letting him see many defects in himself - mostly behaviors that he doesn't like and wants to manage better. He told the IC that much of my feedback to him on what I don't like - he agrees with me.
guess the program is working and he is working it.
We talked briefly about moving back together again - and just agreed to disagree on this one. Progress? To be continued.
My thoughts last night and today mostly remind me that it is still early in his recovery and keeping things slow is good.
Silva - I also see the wisdom in your advice about taking things more matter of factly. I also appreciate the message that I don't have to go through this - I may reframe that one for my sitch - not sure how you meant it but in addition to knowing that I can take care of myself - I also don't have to get on the Merry Go Round everytime he does. I can step off the platform and let him ride it out if need be. Anyway, few months more or a year - it will become much easier to know which way to go. In the mean time, I can get my kids settled and I just got approved for a refinance of the house so I can lower my payments and pay off the car. I am OK.
I didn't like the answer at first and then realized he was right to focus on his sobriety.
Then mentioned that another part of his IC was his admission that being sober is letting him see many defects in himself - mostly behaviors that he doesn't like and wants to manage better. He told the IC that much of my feedback to him on what I don't like - he agrees with me.
guess the program is working and he is working it.
My thoughts last night and today mostly remind me that it is still early in his recovery and keeping things slow is good.
This is all 100% right. Sad to say if his focus isn't on his recovery now he will relapse. I know this is hard for you but I promise if you can give him time he will be a better man.
Spent some time together today - went OK. We talked briefly about moving back in - he keeps getting his hopes up on this one and so when I repeat that we still need time to work on our R - he is hurt. Today he admitted that it took the wind out of his sails and he disagrees with my decision. No arguments. He even told me that he didn't feel like spending time together but he would come over as expected because he doesn't want to let me down as this is one of the things I complain about him doing.
I wondered what kind of time we would have but it went ok. We played some chess and talked but not about the R. He told some things about his sobriety and what he is seeing about himself. It really was good, for a change I was actually interested in what he was saying and not bored or agitated.
Only thing I didn't like is that he announced he wasn't staying long so he could go to a meeting. Really it was about not wanting to spend too much time with me because I don't want him back yet.
Guess he isn't going to understand for awhile. But at least he expressed himself and moved on. Today's version of my H is someone I like.
Only thing I didn't like is that he announced he wasn't staying long so he could go to a meeting. Really it was about not wanting to spend too much time with me because I don't want him back yet.
Kass,
Don't try and second guess reasons for the things people say. Unless he SPECIFICALLY told you that, it is only supposition on your behalf and you may be totally wrong. It serves no purpose unless you want to feel worse about yourself.
I think that he is trying very hard at things and he is finding it difficult. You know Kass, reconciliation isn't about everyday being brilliant and full of sunshine, it's about 100% commitment from both sides to working at things. I do feel that you are BOTH getting closer to that.
Only thing I didn't like is that he announced he wasn't staying long so he could go to a meeting. Really it was about not wanting to spend too much time with me because I don't want him back yet.
Kassie I actually think this is a good thing and it's not because he doesn't want to spend time with you. Right now his recovery HAS to be number 1. I only say this is that without it the M will NEVER work nor will his LIFE. I know this is very hard for you but it will get better. The more comfortable he gets with himself the more comfortable he'll be around you, he's rediscovering himself.
Yeah, from what I hear those meetings have to be a priority. No missing. Don't take it personally. I would be thrilled if my exh were in recovery, attending meetings, and wanting to R. Sounds like your H gets scared and worried about rejection from you and sticks his own flag in the sand. Maybe he is worried how he will cope with rejection or just a bad day without alcohol. They use the alcohol as such a crutch that it must be scary for them without it.
Maybe he is worried how he will cope with rejection or just a bad day without alcohol. They use the alcohol as such a crutch that it must be scary for them without it.
That is 100% true, it's very scary at first which is why the meetings are so important.
Well everyone as a matter of fact I did know that his reason for cutting our time short was in fact related to my decision to wait a year.
He called me after the meeting to apologize and explain further. He said that he gets all messed up when he gets his hopes up of being together and then it doesn't happen. He said he gets messed up and wants to protect himself so that he doesn't relapse.
He went on to explain how it hurts him that I don't want him back yet because it reminds him of all the damage he has caused and the hurt he has inflicted on me and others. He wanted me to know that his being distant and cold was just a protection and not evident of how he really feels about me.
I accepted his explanation and said I understood.
Today he was in a good mood said he was feeling good about himself (he has these days about once a week now). And because of that I guess he started to bug me about changing my decision or at least be open to the idea of changing it. Said he would like to spend more time together while he is working on his recovery. Then the really "low blow" was - after all none of my recovery would have happened if it weren't for you and the way you have stood by me or the way you have given me feedback about my behavior. (not sure if I should feel I am being manipulated or not)
My response yesterday and today is to remain even keel and pay close attention to how I feel. It would actually be easier to say it is ok to move back in Aug - which I did say a few weeks ago - and then still go through the quitting stuff when he doesn't like what I say or do. Just look back at my posts recently and you can see that it just keeps going. Altho, he did say he is changing that behavior.
Which brings up other memories of the past three years and we all know how that turned out. I am really afraid of revisiting those memories all over again. I want to acknowledge his effort but I am terrified. That is why I wanted more than a few months.
Feedback?
If this locks I will continue in this forum for now.
I am sorry he is impatient. It wasn't overnight that got you into this mess...it won't be overnight that it goes away.
I noticed about Volleydog being in recovery Kass! Great for you Volleydog! I am proud. I am dealing with an active alcoholic as well and could use some input as well.
Hi,
Had a good day.
Silva,
I think I agree with you that reconciliation isn't always peaches'n cream. I guess I thought from reading other's threads that it was that way. The real deal is the grunt work and the repair work.
Kind of been over in WAH#4.
Doing ok, not thrilled with how things are going but it isn't awful.
Very awkward.