Any WAS's with success stories? I need to hear it!

I'm unmotivated. I'm clueless what to do. One foot is out the door and the other is off the floor. The only thing keeping me here at this point is that I don't want to be D'd, there's nothing making me want to stay M'd.

I need to hear some good news. Do you have a success story? Sandi has a great one, I've read it end-to-end. Any others?

cville, I would love to hear your full story. I am currently the victim of WAW and it is destroying me. I would like to understand everything of the question "WHY"?

1702, I'm sorry for your sitch. I suspect it's not easy for your WAW either. I read something once and put a sticky note on my laptop, because it so eloquently portrayed the perspective of the WAW. I wish I remembered where I got it so I could credit the author, but this is it:

Quote:

When a spouse walks away, it isn't usually a spur of the moment decision. The groundwork for her desire to be out of the relationship was laid bit by bit over many years.

She started out trusting you and believing in you. She started out knowing that you would love her and desire her presence in your life.

As the years went by and she found out time and again that what she believed was in fact not true...well...it changes people inside. She didn't wake up one morning and decide to go. She talked herself in to this being her only suitable response to life with you.

For me, it all boils down to selfishness on my H's part. I'm sure my story isn't unique. Years of communicating my issues, his promising to address them and then breaking his promises, and then accusing me of nagging because it continued to be a problem for me. At this point, I just feel like I have tried it all, multiple times with no success.

What I see in my sitch with my H is that our M is good for him, so he doesn't understand how painful it is for me. It's like telling someone you have a migraine who has never had a migraine. They think "headache." But anyone who has had both knows the difference. It isn't until the spouse leaves that the LBS begins to actually feel some of what the WAS felt for a long time. Only then are they miserable, and the WAS is looking like they're fine, because they've had a long time to get over it already. You're experiencing the same thing your WAW has probably felt for some time, just on a different timeline. You pulled the band-aide off her hair-by-hair, while she pulled it off you in one swift yank.

Are you posting to other forums? The DB'ing principles do work for many people. Not all, but it could be worth your trying it. I don't know your sitch. I guess I would just suggest to you that you spend some serious energy thinking back on the things she said to you in the past. My H will still tell you he doesn't have a clue what I need from him, yet at the same time would tell you all I do is nag. He doesn't seem to have the capacity to connect the dots (even though I've connected them for him) but you need to if you want to know where things went wrong in your R.

CV, thanks so much for responding. There are 3 sides to every story... Hers, mine, and the truth. So you can take this as my side, but we didn't have years to go by that she felt that I was "pulling the hairs out one by one". Less that 6 months after we were married, she gave me the ILYBNILWY speech. Many issues started this, but i truly feel this was a by product of her undiagosed depression. She was addicted to non-narcotic pain pills, came off those only to be addicted to something alot worse. When she came off those, for the reason of us being able to have another child, the wd's were terrible. (cold turkey). thigs got better with us for a couple weeks, and it has been downhill ever since. Things she complained about were issues I had the entire time like spending time together, not communicating., ect...

After a short conversation with W last night, I have found that she blames me for the breakdown of our marriage because I couldn't compromise about things. When I called her out about these things and the fact that of all those things, she ended up getting it the way she wanted, she then told me that it shouldn't have been a big deal to begin with. And when I told her the reasons they were a big deal for me was because I wanted to have a marriage and family, she proceeded to tell me that those are what "did it for her".

I am so confused because after her depression kicked in from the meds, and even though I am not a dr., (believe it was depression, all signs and symptoms), she became a different person, not wanting all the things that made her fall in love with me from the beginning.

Now she is running, not walking away from our marriage without even trying anything to fix things. Basically after only a few short months of things not being good with us, she is adamant that she never loved me, shouldn't have said yes to proposal, and that this is better for both of us.

I just wanted you to know I have lived up to my short comings and have "seen the light". I know and understand the issues she has had with me and have changed, for this has totally changed my life. I am a different person from this. It's almost I am grateful for this happening, because I know the things I needed to change. But to blame me for everything really hurts. Especially since alot of the things she blamed me for were issues I was trying to help our marriage.

I was yanked around by several doctors. They put me on AD's and then take me off cold turkey. I am not using that as an excuse for my actions of an EA, but I can look back and see how messed up I was and I certainly believe medication (over dosing, wrong kind, or suddenly pulled off) can change a person's outlook, personality, judgment, and actions. It's serious stuff and she needs to be under one doctor (and hopefully, he knows what he's doing). Usually, it's a good idea for a close family member to communicate with the doctor and go with the patient for appointments.

My heart goes out to you!

Sandi, these meds were much worse that AD's. Problem is she has blamed the state of our M on problems with our marriage, not anything that depression has caused. she eve said that depression was caused from how bad our M was. In my eyes, she never gave it a chance.

And it doesn't help that she is in medical field. Plus the fact that there are other "drug" issues within her immediate family. The cannot confront her as she knows more of what they do. Plus the fact that they are "enablers".

1702, if you're dealing with depression and addiction problems, there isn't much you can do to overcome the issues. You're fighting a beast much bigger than you. You could be the perfect H and it still might not make a difference. I can give you the perspective of a WAS, but not a perspective in regards to depression and addiction, sorry.

CV, you are exactly right. The thing that I cannot quit thinking about is how she changed over night. When we first met and the first six months of our R, we talked soooooo much about what we wanted out of life, family, and family/marriage. Each and everything we talked about, we were on the same page. But shortly after stopping the meds, she became a different person. By the way, she stopped so we could start to think about having children.
And now she blames the bad marriage on her depression. I felt like her depression is the cause of many of our problems.

Hey cville, any secret methods to get the WAW, to notice that I'm not the man her peers and mind have made me out to be?

I'm gonna warn you, this is long. But I've been in both shoes, so maybee my story could help you. Hint: it wasnt 'till he moved on and no longer wanted me that I fell back in love with him...

I am new to this site and look forward to sharing and growing with you. First off, I believe I have some valuable insight to offer: I have been in both positions of this ugly situation. Let me explain both scenarios...

(scenario 1)

We have been married 4 years and have 2 little girls. We weren't prefect, but man when the times were good they were soo good. (fast forwarding to the fall out) My H started being just so mean and cruel and once our lease was up, I got my own place. I knew he wanted me back, he told me, text me, called me, everything. I had no respect for him and treated him like crap, but he just kept on loving me. He would come over and make love to me whenever I wanted him to. I gave him just enough attention to keep my foot in the door. (I'm just being honest) I knew in my heart that I loved him, but I didn�t open my heart to him for several reasons

1) I wasn't forced to, he made it so easy just to enjoy him and then push him aside
2) his behavior let me have my cake and eat it too
3) I was selfishly enjoying all the desperate attempts he was making

That started in January. And you know what happened? By March he opened his heart to another woman. Granted she was married and was his boss, but he did it. That man did a 180 on me and omg it stung!!! Man it works, I'm telling you! He went from being my slave to please me to focusing on his own life and moving on. That got my attention so fast and it hurt. Before this I was so intent on moving forward with my life, I had even had several relationships during this time. For those of you who are intimidated by the "other" in your spouse's life, let me tell you this...

I was so sure that I could not spend another minute with my husband. I forgot everything good and focused on the bad. I rekindled a relationship from before hubby and I were married, and I fell back in love with this other man (Mark). I bragged about us to hubby all the time, but mostly as a way to hurt him and make him jealous. Mark and I even had matching tattoos that we designed together. It didn�t feel perfect, and we had our fights. I knew I was going to miss the person I was when I was with hubby, but I pushed it aside. I just focused on the newness of Mark and all of the exciting butterflies. But as soon as hubby did a 180, I dropped Mark like a hot coal. I even emailed Mark, telling him that I loved my hubby and also sent it to my hubby. So trust me guys, that "significant other", no matter how sure they seem, is really just a Band-Aid and a mental distraction. So now let's get to scenario #2....

(Scenario #2)
How funny life is that we have switched places. He is still so serious about his relationship with his OW (other woman). They are living as if they are married. (Her husband is in another state) My children's car seats are in her car, her stuff is in his shower, she loves him so much, blah blah blah..... sounds like what I had been saying months earlier. Him doing his 180 literally made me fall back in love with him. Where I had reasons to leave I now only have reasons to stay. Damn-it, love is tough, and so am I.

Reading DR helped tremendously, as well as reflecting on scenario #1. I have complete faith in my marriage, and appreciate this journey. If it weren't for this craziness I would not have fallen so in love with my husband, and I fully anticipate the same happening with him. If you look at people who have been married 50+ years, they will all tell you of hardships they have overcome. This is the stuff that strengthens marriages, not breaks them. Don't you dare listen to anyone who would tell you otherwise~just feel empathy that they are not as strong as you are.

In case anyone is wondering what I have been doing to handle scenario #2, here's a breakdown...

March 4th -walked in him & OW, flipped out and went psycho. BAD MOVE
March 16 -had sex together. who knew? But felt used afterwards
March 27 -sex again, yup, feeling desperate
April 1st -he is complementing and loving towards me
April 3rd -sent open heart email
April 4th -good phone call, did the letter work???
April 5th -it worked! Most amazing love making ever!!!
April 6th -yeah, didn't work. Saw them in the car together. Feel disgusted

Weeks go by, I'm not changing. Still crying, pleading, feeding his ego...

May 12 -went a while without contacting him. We meet and have sex. Man I gotta stop doing this! Lol
May 12 -he is aware that I'm moving forward with my life, have made some major personal changes

Decided no more "have your cake and eat it too" sex, no more reaching out and contacting him. Started 180

May 16 -he calls for no random reason. I'm happy and keep it short, end it first
May 20 -he texts me to say he's glad to see me so happy and is proud of me
May 20 -ok, he actually sent me several "small step" encouraging texts"
May 24 -calls me for something that didn�t deserve a phone call. Honestly think he just wanted to talk. I Kept it short.
May 24 -I contact him needing the girl's SSN for the divorce paperwork. Possible bad move, pissed him off! Lol but if he's so happy why would he push against the divorce? Um can't have your cake and eat it too buddy, I'm moving on with or without you...(no, I didn't say it, just thought it)

So here we are. Thanks for sticking with me! Hopefully it gave some of you insight. But here's the thing, even learning from my OWN mistakes I still struggle! I feel like I have been perpetuating this scenario and just feel weighed down. Trust me, I'm doing all the right things...not contacting him, living my own life, being positive, yada yada yada. But wow this is hard. He's still with his MARRIED boss and not making and real change. This huge chunk of me wants to file for divorce. I know, I believe in us so much, but I just can't live like this anymore. After walking through all of this mess, I have realized how great of a person I am and that at 31, I am ready for something SO REAL. This isn't real, it's a game.

Hey Peringo,

The only advice I have for you is to not BE the man they have you made out to be. One of my favorite quotes is, "Those that have nothing to hide, hide nothing." If you live your life 100% transparent, then anything they throw at you that's not true will bounce right off. But you'll also have to accept that her beliefs are her reality. So if she says you're X (overweight, for example) and you think you're not, reality doesn't matter. If you're trying to get to HER, you need to meet her where she's at.

Sorry, read your sitch. You've got a lot going on. You may have to let her finalize the D and let her live the life she's chosen, and then hope she'll miss what she had, if you're willing to take her back. Some aren't. And some don't come back.

Thanks, I have 3 difficult battles... 1) overcoming my wifes peers viewpoints on marriage.
2) getting my wife to remember the person she was that led to our marriage.
3) fighting like hell for primary custody of my son.

I really wish I had the gift of time....

Hi JG333,

Thanks for your post! It looks like you were still on moderation and I just noticed it. I've heard your similar sitch several times now. I'm really trying to take it to heart. I'm just having a hard time finding anything to build on. I hope I'm not here some time down the road telling the same story.

Originally Posted By: 1702

CV, thanks so much for responding. There are 3 sides to every story... Hers, mine, and the truth. So you can take this as my side, but we didn't have years to go by that she felt that I was "pulling the hairs out one by one". Less that 6 months after we were married, she gave me the ILYBNILWY speech.

that's pretty fast and early on. WHY did she say she was unhappy?

I read all of THIS thread but assume there's another one?? Anyhow, I found little or nothing of you owning your stuff. Sure, You pay lip service to it but what, specifically, is it you are working on IN YOU?

Here's the crucial KEY to realize:

If your w does not feel marriage to you will be better/different, than she's not likely to return. Period.

So what are YOU CHANGING to reveal this new relationshiop to her?

Many issues started this, but i truly feel this was a by product of her undiagosed depression.

"Many issues....BUT" and then you point at HER....look, I'm not into assigning blame but that's pretty much all you are doing in this thread. Assigning blame TO HER

and she's the one person in this situation YOU have NO control over, so, back to YOU....

and btw, a recent study revealed that 90% of women who take anti depressants OR who suffer from depression, have spouses that fit the behavioral criteria for being "critical people"...

She was addicted to non-narcotic pain pills,

what "none narcotic pain pills" was she "addicted" to? I happen to be familiar with this subject matter, and off the top of my head I can't think of one that fits that description.

So my next question is, Who diagnosed this addiction? How did it get treated? Were you supportive in her recovery program? Attend any NA meetings?

came off those only to be addicted to something alot worse. When she came off those, for the reason of us being able to have another child, the wd's were terrible. (cold turkey).

wow, so
she went off of one medication "Only to be addicted to something a lot worse" that remains nameless...(were they narcotics? Benzos? What?)

What's with going cold turkey? WHY? If she went off either of those meds, cold turkey, her blood pressure would go up and she could suffer so much more by doing it that way. Withdrawal from benzodiazapines can be fatal. IF she had been pregnant and gone cold turkey, the odds of a miscarriage are much higher.

I was taking narcotic pain medication for a ruptured disk, when I learned I was pregnant. I learned that opiates themselves, (i.e., narcotics) do not cause birth defects, but the child would be born dependent on them. and would have to be weaned, which sounded like a real drag for a newborn.

So I went off the pain meds when I discovered I was pregnant and I curtailed many of my activities due to increased back pain, which was then not being treated.

B/c of the side effects of withdrawal which sukk big time anyhow -much worse than most imagine-

I had to be hospitalized, w/BP and vitals taken every 30 minutes, so that I would not miscarry (b/c among other things, blood pressure sky rockets in opiate withdrawal and that leads to miscarriages).

So my gut reaction, which is biased/informed, I admit, is that your wife went thru hell, alone, when she could have used a lot more medical and emotional support.

The fact she did this cold turkey speaks volumes about how little insight there was on your end or hers, unless she felt she "deserved" the hell of cold turkey b/c she felt ashamed. Shame is a huge reason many people don't seek out help for this. And shame is depressing.

If she were really physically addicted, whose idea was it that she go cold turkey? WHY? Why not get help? ALSO-since she was taking PAIN medication I'm assuming she had some actual pain. Chronic pain is also very depressing.

Is anything being done to treat the underlying cause of her physical pain?

so, where's the part where you "own" your flaws and are working on them?

BTW- There are almost zero success stories of addicts recovering by cold turkey methods alone...no wonder the woman was depressed. THAT ITSELF is very depressing...

thigs got better with us for a couple weeks, and it has been downhill ever since. Things she complained about were issues I had the entire time like spending time together, not communicating., ect...

Did she relapse?

You are VAGUE here about her complaints. She said you did not communicate or spend enough time with her? Is that it?

Those are not small items. It hurts to feel ignored. It feels like rejection. And it Sounds like she did not feel like a priority to you and that made her unhappy. No shock there. BTW, try reading "The Five Love Languages" b/c I think your w's love language is quality time together and yours isn't. I recommend the book for nearly all couples.

Instead of working on THOSE issues she complained of, it SEEMS you believed she was wrong to feel that way b/c you make no mention of a single change to address those complaints. Somehow you conveyed to her that she needed fixing b/c she was "depressed" and "addicted" so may I assume you supported her taking medications so she'd feel better (and coincidentally, you would have to do nothing??)

Can you please explain to me how you can be married for 6 months, hear that your wife is not in love with you, have these other problems, and then decide that was a good time to start a family?

Whose idea was it to try and have a baby THEN?

If it was her idea, she was probably lonely enough to believe a baby would assuage that isolated feeling AND OR, the motivation to stay clean, is highest when a child is coming...if It was your idea, I don't know what to think.
You tell me.

After a short conversation with W last night, I have found that she blames me for the breakdown of our marriage because I couldn't compromise about things.

take this information as "intel" that has value b/c it shows you what YOU can work on. Stop blaming her or defending yourself, and start looking at things you can do something about.

Be grateful she's giving you some answers even if you don't like them. There is less mystery here than you think. And that is good news!

If she believed SHE was to blame for all of this and had no motivation to change, then it would be hopeless.

instead of wanting to be "right", try wanting to be happy.

Only if there are things YOU can change, is there really any power on your end. So if you want to blame her for all this so you can be "right", then so be it. Be right but be alone.

Be right, but powerless to do anything b/c after all, it's ALL HER fault...

or be empowered by identifying what YOU CAN WORK ON, and begin.

When I called her out about these things and the fact that of all those things, she ended up getting it the way she wanted, she then told me that it shouldn't have been a big deal to begin with.

First off, in a way she's right. If the conflicts you two had, resulted in her getting her way - it's either b/c she had good points to begin with, but your stubborness or other flaws blocked them, AND that's on YOU.

If she wasn't "right" but you simply gave in, then you clearly didn't do it with love, b/c you were so begrudging and resentful, it didn't seem like a gesture of love to her. You sure do keep score. That's a lose lose proposition btw.

And when you challenge her RECALL of the marriage or her reasons for wanting out, you get nowhere.

The more you challenge the choices she's making, the more you force her to defend them. Do you get that?

And when I told her the reasons they were a big deal for me was because I wanted to have a marriage and family, she proceeded to tell me that those are what "did it for her".

this^^ is so very vague. You just said she got her way on things and that somehow proves you are a compromising man...but then you say it was "a big deal" for you, whatever those compromises or issues were, b/c you wanted to have a family. The big deal was what? You compromising?

What are you talking about? IS there some other thread that contains the secret code here? When you resolved conflicts were you discussing a purchase of a television or car or having a child? The latter is a decision both must agree on.

Too many missing pieces of the puzzle here. But that makes me wonder why you are skimming over it...

I am so confused because after her depression kicked in from the meds,

again with the diagnosing AND mind reading and again with the "nothing YOU could have done about it" so you are NOT accountable for any of this...do
you see how self serving your diagnoses seem to be?

If you want to change your situation, change YOU. It's a tough thing to hear, but we have all been there and done that to stay married,

or we did not and we're divorced, or we changed and divorced anyhow - but are better people than before. That counts for a lot.

and even though I am not a dr., (believe it was depression, all signs and symptoms), she became a different person, not wanting all the things that made her fall in love with me from the beginning.

You said she was unhappy early in the marriage, correct? So this has been happening awhile now?

How long had you dated before marriage? WEre you a better boyfriend than husband? Do you think she expected you to improve/change after becoming a husband?

Now she is running, not walking away from our marriage without even trying anything to fix things.

given YOUR description here, what do you think would motivate her to try and fix things?

Basically after only a few short months of things not being good with us, she is adamant that she never loved me, shouldn't have said yes to proposal, and that this is better for both of us.

When were things good with you two? Your description more or less made it sound like things were rarely good.

And when things were "not good" for you, they were damn bad for her.

If she really became addicted to pain pills (though I have a lot of questions about your use of the word "addicted for a non narcotic pain pill" b/c frankly, it sounds more like someone who had under treated pain, and probably still does, but I digress)

Withdrawal, being in moderate to severe pain, chronically, are both reasons for depression in most people.

If a spouse isn't supportive of his wife in those circumstances, when you are both relatively healthy and young, it may have seemed to her she simply chose the wrong man to be her life partner. After all, what would happen if she got cancer or became wheelchair bound and was sad? Would you be "working late" a lot? I say this b/c I am wondering if those are things that might have crossed her mind...

any insight on any of this?

I know it feels like I am hitting you with a 2 x 4 and i probably am.

But you are not challenging yourself much here, at least not on this thread. You are just here venting (which is fine as long as other REAL WORK is happening) and' blaming her...

I don't see "real work" happening on your end. By that I mean working on YOU.

Have you read the Div Remedy book? What did you think of it?

25yearsmlc,

Here is 1702's current thread.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2251508#Post2251508

thanks Bond. I have not finished the first thread yet, just about 4 pages. I did notice the first post in the first thread, says pretty much the same thing this first one in this thread says...all about what SHE is doing to him and how it doesn't make sense.

I'm not yet finding the insights on his part about his role OR the possibility that she has a point--maybe, just maybe, they weren't on the same page from day one. It seems they don't recall who agreed to what, when.

Bond, are you suggesting she's a WAW? She doesn't fit the MLC scenario but I think dividing people into two groups as if that's all emcompassing over simplifies. It's got to be more complicated, don't you think?

Just wondering what point there is to saying she's nutty or confused, if that's all we say.

What's he going to do with that?

And 1702, I'm sorry to tell you this, but if you live in the USA, there's no such thing as you refusing a divorce nor does not signing something prevent a divorce from happening. I understand you don't want one and you don't want to assist her in ending the marriage. I get that. But you have to know,

If your w wants a divorce, she can have one. Whether you sign papers or not, all that does is force her to get a waiver of signature, or whatever it's called in your state, so she can move forward. It'll cost more in time, and possibly money.

I have had to tell many people, mostly older women, that the days the Television still portrays, of people like Joan Collins telling her wayward h that she'd "NEVER GIVE HIM A DIVORCE" are over. That's b/c the state grants divorce, not the spouse.

The most you can do is delay it, which may be worthwhile. I don't advise helping her to divorce you, but know that sometimes, delaying the inevitable adds costs.

Plus, this may be a journey she's on that doesn't involve you directly, and in her mind, it may require her to finish this "task" before she can discover that the grass is greener where it's watered. IOW, she may have to feel "free" in order to choose to commit. Right now what I'm getting from her is a sense of feeling trapped, regardless of whtether it's right or wrong, that's the vibe I get from her.

Perhaps you ought to Detach, back off and leave her to her task...?

But you ought to know your legal rights. Try not to get offended by a lawyer who feels she has seen this before and knows the likely outcome. She probably means well.

I'm a L but when I interviewed the lawyers I thought of using, I found one I really liked and related to. I told her that I wanted to save the marriage but not at all costs.

SHE is the one show suggested I file for a sep rather than file for divorce b/c she held out hope for us to reconcile and she was right. She could have made a lot more money off of me than she did. (Actually, I see her as a Godsend and a friend, now.)

After learning my rights, I felt empowered to CHOOSE to stay married and knowing I was not stuck or a doormat, helped me find the strength it took to stay and work on ME and creating a good life for myself and the kids.

Information is power and hiding your head in the sand isn't a position of strength, nor is it attractive.

I think some reality of what your w may face as a single mom, would possibly help your cause. I don't know what role the father of her daughter has there.
But will she really be better off without you? There may be only one way for HER to find out...

What can YOU do to slow things down, (other than not signing something)?
Can you give her more space and relax and be less predictable?

Can you GAL? What changes do you want to make in YOU? Can you begin them now?

crazyville, the things you sad about trying for years to tell your husband what you needed, him saying he would address it, and things never changing sounds exactly like what my wife has said. Also the part about the M being fine for me but not for her. I am only a week away from our D being final, and....she is right. I just passively let her hurt and leave. now I wish I had time to fix it all.

What kinds of things would you be looking for? Words don't seem to work, but I am not sure I have time for her to see actions.

My husband walked out on me after an argument on August 2, 2012. he was supposed to leave that weekend to work on a racecar (that is his hobby). He left me hanging because he wouldn't come home, he wouldn't talk to me about anything other then business things. After being gone 2 1/2 weeks, we talked after meeting at a mutual friends house. He told me he was deciding if he loved me enough to come home and resume our marriage. A few days after that he told me he was coming home. He has now returned home, he did apologize for hurting me, but we have not talked aboput things. I have been working on myself with a counselor who is solution oriented and I had a session with a DB counselor.

My question is: now that he is home, how do i trust him? I don't ever want that to happen again. I am working on myself and my parts of our problems, but how do I get him to work on things? He is unwilling to go to counseling at this point. I am trying to GAL, which I see is my main problem. All of focus has been on him and not myself. Any suggestions would be appreciated!!
Terri

Hi Terri, there are plenty of WAS success stories. Even MLC success stories. And yes, I'm talking specifically about reconciliation, although many of us take on the meaning of success as simply rebuilding our lives without our spouses, learning to become even better versions of ourselves, and moving on with our lives, independent of our spouses, whether that is perpetual separation or D.

As I notice you've registered back in May of this year, I suspect you've been reading the boards silently, looking for advice and help in other sitches.

I would recommend and encourage you to start your own thread so that we can help support you even better, in your specific sitch and circumstances. While the work is the same, DB can and should be modified specifically for our sitches which might mean that what works for one may not work for another and third party feedback can sometimes help us understand where we are stuck and help us get our breakthrough.

So to answer your question above, you can not "get him" to work on things... sort of...

What you MIGHT be able to do is... encourage good behaviour from him... which really is... a way to encourage him to work on things...

Make sense?

Kaffe Diem,

Thank you for your response and advice. You are right by suggesting complementing "good behavior" . I have been working on GAL because if he decides to stay or go, I want to be the best me I can be! i am taking all of this as a wake up call for me to learn things and maybe he will come along for the ride!!
Terri

I was trapped, and walked. More than once. Now piecing.
Not sure if we are a success story, but I will say our communication is more authentic now that I feel more free to speak my mind.
Peace,
Goldeylox

Hang in there. I am in the middle of a WAW success story - and I've even done some of the stupid things. I am lucky in that we have always had a GREAT relationship and had been able to talk.

The best advice I can give is to NOT smother or pressure them and to push GENTLY for some type of counseling. We're not out of the woods yet, but we are on the road to recovery.

Both of us got so busy with life, careers and kids - that we forgot to work on us. There were things that both of us did that frustrated the other person, and she chose to obsess over her issues with me and I chose to ignore my issues with her. What happens is that she sits around thinking she is near perfect - because I am ALWAYS happy and ALWAYS there for her, with NO complaints or problems....while she is no longer discussing her issues with me (since I don't handle that too well, at times), but rather, letting them erode our marriage.

One thing I tell her and have always told her is "same team." We HAVE to be on the same team. If not, we're done before we begin.

Crazyville, perhaps we can help each other. I have posted but my posts have yet to be approved, I guess. I don't know your story other than what I am replying to and it sounds like you are thinking of separating but just don't want to work on the marriage. I can't say that my story is a success but I think we are making some positive moves toward reconciliation. My wife left me in October 2012 after 21 years of marriage. I drank and stayed out late 2 to 3 times a week for various reasons but I think mostly I never healed from my wifes infidelity in the first year of marriage. I hurt her by holding back over the years. The intimacy in the relationship wasn't there. I essentially hurt myself by never forgiving my wife. We love each other, no doubt there. I never fully realized her pain until after she left. I pursued her for three months and now I have stopped once she said she wanted a D. That was one month ago. She now has shown some interest and told me last night that she wasn't sure that she wants the M to be over and asked if we could meet periodically. I said yes, of course and told her that we hurt each other and that the intimacy in the relationship was affected but that as ambigious as the R is that I was here and want to be a source of security for her. She says she is depressed and confused by her feelings and that she wasnt sure if it was fair of her to not let me go if she was't sure what she wanted for the future. I guess my story might be success in the sence that I have changed. I stopped drinking for the most part, lost 23 pounds, am selling the house and dealing with the renovations as my wife signed a one year lease down the street. I have emersed myself in my work and my two children who are both in college. My wife and I have been together since we were 17. We are 43 today. If you have separated or are thinking about it I can tell you that it will have an affect. My wife didn't want to work on the marriage either and proly still doesn't but said last night that she plan to get some counseling. Can you tell me little about your situation? Maybe help me understand the WAS syndrome? any advice? I love my wife and want to see my marriuage and our family stay together.

Dear 12C,

a small "technical note" if I might...could you write in smaller chunks or smaller paragraphs? IT's way easier to read and follow along...thanks!

Originally Posted By: 12CDN34

Crazyville, perhaps we can help each other. I have posted but my posts have yet to be approved, I guess. I don't know your story other than what I am replying to and it sounds like you are thinking of separating but just don't want to work on the marriage.

I can't say that my story is a success but I think we are making some positive moves toward reconciliation. My wife left me in October 2012 after 21 years of marriage. I drank and stayed out late 2 to 3 times a week for various reasons but I think mostly I never healed from my wifes infidelity in the first year of marriage. I hurt her by holding back over the years.

I have a tough question to ask you, 12CD. And I mean no offense by it. But we are here to help people help themselves...

So are you saying you believe the (SOLE?) reason for you drinking so much, so often, and leaving the home so many nights all these years, is all Because of something she did decades ago?

And if so, What do you think YOU Can do, to heal from it?

What can You do to move forward in your life without pain from that time?

Can you see why this might be a task for you on your own, as opposed to a recently discovered affair of recent occurence (in which case your W would have to Join with you to reassure you, to be transparent w/her dealings w/any OMs, etc. It'd be mutual work, done as a team, etc)

...but after all this time, can you see why your w might be tired of having this over her head?

Do YOU THINK SHE THINKS that you Used it as an excuse for whatever you did?

Any truth to that? BTW, WHEN it happened, what did you two do about it?

Also, I see that your kids are now of college age. So, where are they in all this? What have they witnessed? & Finally,

What does "I stopped drinking...for the most part" truly mean?

[/b]

Have you tried AA? Before you tune me out, please hear me out.

Even if you don't believe you are an alcoholic,

their 12 step programs help people IDENTIFY a lot of their own unhealthy behaviors AND helps you to change them...

and it's free, and it's anonymous. When you fully take in their approach, you'll find it can be profoundly deep.

If at some point you want to face some issues or damage you have to "own up to", please realize, AA is a super supportive place made FOR THAT!

12CD, You don't have to fight this alone.

The intimacy in the relationship wasn't there. I essentially hurt myself by never forgiving my wife.

THIS^^^ Is a very valuable insight on your part. Don't forget that hard earned lesson. (You did well w/that insight!)

12CD, Check out what I have written in my signature block..."forgiveness is our way out of hell." And it is.

I never saw forgiveness growing up. (How was it modelled in Your upbringing?)

Forgiveness is a learned skill and a PROCESS, which takes steps, and choices, and TIME.

Forgiveness is first and most, a gift you give to YOURSELF.

In theory, your spouse does not even need to know you've forgiven them. (This is especially important to people who confuse forgiveness with condonation, which it's not).

It simply means you (& others) are not victimized by your pain any longer. You are not a prisoner of it, so your choices made TODAY, are not affected by or held hostage to, an old wound, b/c you have finally allowed the wound to heal.

We love each other, no doubt there. I never fully realized her pain until after she left.

That is Not rare to see around here, but dang it's still so tragic.
SO---

What would you DO differently, "From this day forward", if you were given another chance?

After all,

she won't return to the marriage

UNLESS she believes it can be better/different than before.

So, what are you DOING to SHOW her that it can be better/different?

It's awfully easy to say "I stopped pursuing & I withdrew b/c it says not to pursue" or b/c she SAID she wanted a divorce (remember that you should "believe nothing they say and only half of what they do, b/c WASs are confused and in pain).

But "non pursuit" is simply ONE strategy in this situation. And it's got to be replaced by another strategy of some kind if you drop the pursuit one. Even just an internal action strategy, = you changing something in you that needs work -

To Become a man only a fool would leave.

SO Be more involved with your kids b/c 1) it's the right thing to do, and

2) no woman is unmoved by the loving interaction of her children, with the man in HER life...be that man.

3) Despite their ages, your kids need you more now, than ever.

HERE IS AN OPTION FOR YOU...CHOOSE ONE OF THE FOLLOWING TWO LEGACIES..."For the children".

Option A--
Imagine leaving a legacy of a 21 year long, mediocre to lousy marriage that probably had love in it but the kids rarely saw it b/c it was so buried under resentments and pain and fears and anger and neglect... that it wa hard to tell IF there was love, but you THOUGHT so...which is tragic.

VERSUS

Option B-- a legacy of loving commitment, renewal, forgiveness and redemption...

Imagine giving THAT gift to your children...

DB 101, do what works, monitor for results, re-assess strategies if the first one does not work, etc. (& Do NOT do more of the same if that is what got you here.)

If your problem was one of neglect, for instance, then isn't withdrawal just more of the same?

We know of the people who are LBSers who plead/implore and beg and then get super angry at their WAS when the bomb drops. Been there, done that. We all know that does not work.

But Lately I've wondered about the number of more neglectful LBS spouses, the ones who know their WAS felt neglected, ignored or devalued/belittled, or worse,

& many of those LBSers seem all too quick to say "since I'm not supposed to pursue, I'll just withdraw from WAS, but I'll call it "Divorce Busting".

But really, they are effectively, DOING - NOTHING to change the dynamic in their marriage.

They are NOT looking within, which is where the real journey is.
They need to make major changes in their behavior or themselves at a core level.

(OMG

I just realized I'm hijacking crazyville's thread. Crazyville, I'm so SORRY!

12CD, I'll try to find your thread again. Geez, I thought it was here. APOLOGIES Crazy.

I pursued her for three months and now I have stopped once she said she wanted a D. That was one month ago. She now has shown some interest and told me last night that she wasn't sure that she wants the M to be over and asked if we could meet periodically.

I said yes, of course and told her that we hurt each other and that the intimacy in the relationship was affected but that as ambigious as the R is that I was here and want to be a source of security for her. She says she is depressed and confused by her feelings and that she wasnt sure if it was fair of her to not let me go if she was't sure what she wanted for the future. I guess my story might be success in the sence that I have changed. I stopped drinking for the most part, lost 23 pounds, am selling the house and dealing with the renovations as my wife signed a one year lease down the street. I have emersed myself in my work and my two children who are both in college. My wife and I have been together since we were 17. We are 43 today. If you have separated or are thinking about it I can tell you that it will have an affect. My wife didn't want to work on the marriage either and proly still doesn't but said last night that she plan to get some counseling. Can you tell me little about your situation? Maybe help me understand the WAS syndrome? any advice? I love my wife and want to see my marriuage and our family stay together.

Originally Posted By: peringo

Hey cville, any secret methods to get the WAW, to notice that I'm not the man her peers and mind have made me out to be?

No secrets...which I guess is the secret.

But if her PEERS and SHE think something negative about you then the only thing you can do is: Figure out whether it matters.

IF many people believe it...you have to at least

Analyze it for real, by digging deep and figure out if there is even a THREAD of truth or validity to it.

Even if it's only true in her eyes, it has a thread there...(like an honest miscontrual of an event. It happens. We tend to do a lot of mind reading til we sometimes believe what we "read into," as being a fact.)

If there is a thread of truth to it, or more, we work on that.

We assess if it's a trait we don't want to have, like gossiping or negatively spinning things around us, and being a downer to be around, etc.

OR a worst trait, putting her down, making snarky remarks often, neglecting her in public, "forgetting" her needs as a habit, etc....THOSE traits...

Gotta own them AND CHANGE THEM before you can change anyone's minds.

OTHERWISE, if you truly have looked within, and the ONLY reason those peers believe bad things about you is b/c of what SHE SAYS and the only reason she says those things is...to punish you in some way,

then all you can do is 180s when you have the chance to. Make them a habit so when the time comes, your new normal behavior will show thru.

If you're countering those negatives with new positives (or the positives you always were doing but they did not see)

then you can be sure SOMEDAY one of them will see the behavior does not match her description. They'll catch on.

Finally, if you don't get the chance to change the minds of those peers b/c they are more or less strangers to you,

b/c you don't see them and

they are not part of your social or professional or family life,

then LET IT GO! Who cares what they think?

You may as well worry about that homeless guy who lives on the heating grill downtown, and him what HE thinks of you....and life on Mars.

Last but not least, when people in your life who do know you, insult you or criticize you...

YOU COULD take it as "feedback" from the universe, about something to change, instead of reacting in anger.

To detach from someone who knows and dislikes you (after our son was born, my MIL changed her feelings towards me when I refused to have our son baptized in HER church, but in mine, which my h had agreed to. LONG STORY but the sum of it is, she was anti-Catholic. Didn't matter til kids came around.

I truly honestly stopped caring about her opinion of me when I realized it was more about HER bigotry than anything I'd ever done. So you can put those types of peoplein the homeless guy category, and don't waste an ounce of your energy on them...or it.

Go your way. Be the best man YOU can be, and when you KNOW you have done that, then leave the results up to God.

And hold your head high...

Originally Posted By: peringo

Thanks, I have 3 difficult battles... 1) overcoming my wifes peers viewpoints on marriage.
2) getting my wife to remember the person she was that led to our marriage.
3) fighting like hell for primary custody of my son.

I really wish I had the gift of time....

What about the battle within? The changes you wanted to make IN YOU? The 180s?

All your above goals are about people you have NO control over, except as it relates to #3.

Since you have nothing to do with her friends' views on marriage, don't even go there. Useless, counter productive. Harms more than helps.

25year,

Thanks for the response. You have given me inspiring advice!

No, I don't believe the infidelity was the sole cause of my drinking and I have acknowledged that to my W. "For the most part" meaning when I drink today it is moderate drinknig as the late nights are no more. I chose to drink and I can choose not to drink as life is much better without it.

As for the infidelity, we did very little about it. It was buried and I was left to my own devices in dealing with it over the years.

I have actually been spending alot of time with my children. I went for four visits last semester after W left (2 hour drive).

Forgiveness was not modeled well in my childhood at all. That is why these last four months have been instrumental in my personal growth as it never really clicked in me that forgiving my W was nothing more or less than a CHOICE and had very little to do with a FEELING. The realization that I have been focusing on my self all these years and dweling on my pain has been a powerful change for me.

Thank you for nudging me off of the LRT as I have been thinking the very same thing; that is, whether it was time for me to start showing some interest in my W. I have the same concerns that you write about. We have had some communication since dinner last Saturday and I am considering just asking her if we can start dating. She stated last week that she would like to meet for dinner periodically and hoped I would be amenable to that and I said I am.

For Valentine's Day I did send an Ecard with the message that a gift card was waiting for her behind the bar at the wine bar she patrons with the girls from work. She loved it and sent a return Ecard.

I am just not sure what to do from here? I don't have a coaching session for another 10 days so you guys will have to be my coach for now. Any suggestions? Should I risk asking my W to date or should I just do it by asking her out for dinner? Or should I wait for her to ask me out for dinner?

After my W announced she wanted a D and I begand DB these were my GOALS:

(1) For her to call me and we just talk (this happened after about 2 or 3 weeks of LRT; we talked for 1:23);

(2) For her to invite me out for a date (this happened last Saturday and she said she would like to meet like that periodically)

There is also a part of me that says I should just continue working on myself. I just don't know how I am supposed to measure when its time to reach out to the WAS????

While I was typing the post directly above my W called. We spoke for about 30 minutes and it was good. We later exchanged texts regarding my new web site and I asked her to look at for her advics, among other things.

I later was at the house packing things and my neighbor across the street offered to act as our agent and list the house for 1%. She is divorced with 3 children. I sent a text to my wife askiing what she thought and she said "yes" and "I think its always good to build relationships" and that she "thought the neighbor wanted to date me." I responded that I was not available and she replied "that doesn't mean she won't try." I then informed W that the neighbor didn't try and just saw our house as an opportunity to get her name out there. At that point, I decided to send a text to W asking if she wanted to go on a date with me and the rest is history and we have a date planned for this Friday.

Any thoughts on what is going on with my W?

So how was the date?

No date yet.

W was in NO for work trip and not up to it last Friday when she returned and we moved everything out of the house saturday which interfered as well.

Since my daughter is home for SB, I suggested that we do something with her this week but it appears that will not happen as she says she already has plans tonight and we still have to get all the clutter out of the house this Saturday.

I think I will just back off at this point - too much going on it seems.

Hey CV,

I was thinking about you recently and wondering how you were doing. The last time I checked in, your H was seeing a counselor and you were seeing some small amount of movement on his behalf. Is that still continuing, or has he gone back to no counselor and no changes?

Do you still feel attracted to him? It feels to me like if he would get over himself, you'd still be willing to give it a shot, and if that's the case I would think attraction would be at the root of your willingness to continue.

What's the latest?

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