Hi DBers, I've been lurking a while and thought I'd provide a short update.
Recap: Me (40) Hus (45) Married 20yrs. S:19, S:16, D:13
Normal, church-going family, with regular ups/downs, no 3rd parties. Attended Retrouvaille in '97 and '08.
Hx of depression (me) Hx of emotional abuse (H)
Left once in May of '07 for 4 weeks, but returned for the kids. Contemplated leaving last summer, when medical sitch (H) spiralled into crisis.
Walked in October '08, filed for D, got apartment and took kids with me.
Update:
I took a break from the board. Needed to sort things out. In February, the strain on maintaining two households was hurting everyone, so I moved back home. For now, the D is dropped, I can always file later if need be.
Here's what I learned:
I made many decisions out of Fear.
I spent a lot of time living for what might happen, could happen, or what should have happened.
I have a tendancy to be co-dependent.
While spending time working on the M is good, not much will be accomplished until I get my own act together.
I'll journal a while, feel free to read along if you've always wondered what goes on in the head of a WAW. Peace, Goldey
Goldey!!!
Good to see you girl!! How are those boots? Did you put them away yet or keeping them handy?
Peace
K
Goldey,
As I remember, though I tend to mix up a lot of people on the board, weren't you contending with physical and emotional abuse? Have you found a way to stop that?
Hi Sunshine...Ha! The Boots. They're shoved in the back of the closet for now while I re-group.
Expectations. They'll bite 'ya every time.
Sara, you have an excellent memory.
Seems that my dramatic actions (leaving, taking kids, filing RO and for D) was a giant wake up call for H.
Since my return (5 months) he's cleaned up his act. The difference? H says he never thought I'd do it (really leave).
Journalling:
Abuse. It's a word I still have trouble hearing, and saying.
The people around me who are healthy (IC, my sister, even the mediator) all agree that while I wasn't beaten to a pulp, there was definately abuse present. Friends who are close to our sitch (in various stages of acceptance about using the term abuse) tend to agree that my filing a Restraining Order was a legal move to gain custody and nothing more.
What to do? Choose healthier friends.
It comes down to this. I was so desperate to remain married, at any cost, that I refused to deal with what H admits was 'bad behavior'. I lied to everyone...the ER doc, my closest girlfriends, my pastor. In my mind, I could not accept that calling the police and protecting myself and kids was an option that would improve my life. I thought, "This is the best you can do". Fear kept me from taking a chance that things could be better.
I regret sugar-coating things in front of my kids. With some counseling, they're learning that you need to call people on their BS, even when it's your own Dad. And how, exactly, would they learn to stand up for themselves if their own Mother was a doormat?
Don't misunderstand, it's not that I stand on the corner and try to educate the neighborhood about the perils of Domestic Violence. What is understood, is that if you cross a certain line with Goldey, she will call the cops and you will get arrested.
And as scary as it is, it won't be the end of the world. Peace.
And...? What does your H say about this? Do you have a relationship? Trying to have one? Are you feeling safe? Optimistic?
K
Thanks for posting Goldey, hope all goes well and you get the M you deserve.
Safe? Yes. Wouldn't have returned otherwise.
But living here is not my first choice. However, living with 2 teenagers in a small apartment (nice, but small) presents a few challenges.
Life at the Goldeylox Pad...
Now keep in mind, I had a TRO (which was modified to a no-contact order in court) so only a half-dozen or so people even had my address and/or phone number.
I also had a boatload of assumptions and was totally unprepared for reality.
Assumption #1 - S19 was in his first year at school, living on-campus just across town. He and I are close. Never had a moment of trouble with him. When looking for an apartment, it never entered my mind that he would prefer to stay with H. He refused to even spend the night there.
Assumption #2 - S16 and D13 would grow to accept that living in an apartment for a few months would be an improvement over the constant tension at the house. Wrong again. Counseling was great for helping D13 find her voice, and she used it! I didn't know she could use such language!
Assumption #3 - Our friends would stay out of it. (Secretly I hoped a couple would even see things my way). Nope, to the contrary, friends invited H out to keep his spirits up, and my calls went unreturned.
Assumptions #4 - #99 are all variations on the same theme. I knew it was going to be hard on the kids. I even expected some rebellion. Not a mutiny.
I'm pausing for a dinner break but I'll be back. Peace.
So there's Goldey, with two of her three bears, in this new place. There were some great things about our new spot.
Abundant room for kids to say what was on their minds, instead of being stifled. In the past, H has openly discouraged individual expression (translate: do it my way or else). So the freedom to just tell jokes, move dinnertime, or just veg out was new, and fun. Goldey got to take as long of a bath as she wanted and no one lost their cool over that. I even got a tattoo, something that had been strictly forbidden for the last decade. I was seeing my IC every week, and was getting a lot of support there.
But things started to unravel. Once the RO was lifted, there was contact. S16 had no desire to visit, but D13 was going once/week and having a blast each time. Before long, there were daily conversations about "Dad wants you to come home" and "He's really changed". Then, D13 decided she wanted to move back home, and before you know it, I'm the one only seeing her once/week.
I continued to isolate, and by late January, I knew I was becoming very depressed. I was in pretty bad shape, and finally decided that perhaps it was worth thinking about going home.
The whole point to leaving was to keep my kids safe. Now, I realize that sounds a bit like a martyr, but it's where I was at. I had already left in May of '07, returning when I realized that living apart from my kids, leaving them in what I consider a bad situation with no protection) just doesn't work for me. I had planned on staying until D13 was up and out.
Does this sound co-dependent? Probably. I've never been real good at 'alone'. It's an area I need to improve. So, for now, I'm back home because being alone (and kid-less) is worse.
And I pay a lot more attention to expectations and assumptions. I no longer try to predict the future. I'm far less worried about "What will H think", although it comes back up now and again. Ironically, I've had to accept that while I had their best interests in mind, I couldn't MAKE the kids accept that their home life can be toxic at times. When/if, they ever indicate they've had enough and want to leave, I'm ready.
That sounds odd, as I read this back. I'm not suggesting that kids should have to make grown-up decisions. What I'm saying is that I tried to rescue people who did not want to be rescued. If that changes, although I don't believe it will, I'll be ready.
H has made some changes. Enough that it's better than last summer. Beyond that, I'm not going to hold my breath.
Ugh. I'm rambling. There's a lot to sort out when you're a WAW who can't figure out what she really wants.
No, check that...I still want the same thing. To give the three bears the best I've got. Now I have to figure out how to do that. Peace.
Thanks for the story Goldey. You are true to your namesake. It's interesting. We never hear from the one that got away to know that the assumptions don't work. I hope that all will be well now that you are back at home. But I still don't think of you as a WAW. I think of you as an escapee. There is a difference.
Ms Goldey..
You've been on my mind recently.
Thanks for sharing your experience and choices. Keep your Bullsh*t Meter on and keep listening to your inner voice. "Codependent No More" was a favorite read of mine.. lots of tidbits and 'oops, I thought that was a good thing!' moments.
*hugshugshugs*
Warning: I'm in a funky mood this afternoon.
Ugh. There are moments, few and far between, when I'm tempted to try again. Put the past behind us, and really try again. Those moments last about 15 minutes. Then the Fear comes back, and I'm paralyzed.
Do I give H any credit for making changes? Nope.
Am I happy with the person I see in the mirror? Double nope.
I feel like such a fraud.
Today I had an image of a burned piece of wood. Blackened. Changed at the molecular level. No matter how badly it wants to be a 2x4, it's not gonna happen. I know, I know, that burned piece of wood still has value, and can become something that an un-burned piece of wood could not.
I will move ahead when I accept what is, instead of what I wish was. Most of the time it works, it's much harder on the tug-of-war days. Like today.
Hugs, you.
I guess I'm not quite understanding the wood image. Is it supposed to be you..or your marriage? Sorry, I was a little confused.
You know, goldey, you're entitled to all your feelings...all of them, including what you wish things could be. Don't berate yourself for not "accepting what is" too much. Maybe what is, isn't good enough. But it's what ya gotta do for now. You're hardly a fraud! It sounds like you've turned all those pesky expectations around on yourself! ;-) What is it you think you're "supposed to" be or feel?
And please don't minimize your feelings of what you've been through with your H...even if he's made changes, that doesn't mean your trauma just goes away. (And of course, the abusive types want EXTRA credit for anything they do that's good, while tending to hand out demerits for you even feeling bad about anything.) I'm glad you have an IC...what is this person's opinion about abuse recovery, and what you should realistically be expecting of yourself?
I guess I'm not quite understanding the wood image. Is it supposed to be you..or your marriage?
It was about me, and the image didn't make a lot of sense to me either.
You're hardly a fraud! It sounds like you've turned all those pesky expectations around on yourself! ;-) What is it you think you're "supposed to" be or feel?
I feel like I'm half in, half out. I'm married, but I yearn for a marriage. I'm having more trouble staying detached since moving back (co-dep, remember?).
And please don't minimize your feelings of what you've been through with your H...even if he's made changes, that doesn't mean your trauma just goes away.
Yup.
(And of course, the abusive types want EXTRA credit for anything they do that's good, while tending to hand out demerits for you even feeling bad about anything.)
Double yup.
I'm glad you have an IC...what is this person's opinion about abuse recovery, and what you should realistically be expecting of yourself?
Confession, I haven't been for several weeks, due to the fact that 1) weekly visits getting expensive and 2) not making any progress (my opinion). BTW, I am aware I put way too much pressure on myself.
Family is at the beach, annual trip with church going on 10+ years. I boycotted, and am so glad I stayed behind. I've hated that trip the last few times and it felt good to take a stand. The house is quiet, peaceful. It reminds me of my apartment. I'll use this time to practice doing what Goldey wants. Oh yeah, GAL, I remember that. Peace.
I thought you would make porridge and try out the chairs and the beds.
Cute, Sara.
I'm smiling...really smiling. Feels good. It's been so long since I've felt much of anything. This week, although up and down, has at least had some ups. That's progress. Peace.
I feel like I'm half in, half out. I'm married, but I yearn for a marriage. I'm having more trouble staying detached since moving back (co-dep, remember?).
Here's a different perspective on detachment and codependency...I can't find the link right now, but there's the text:
The preachers of codependence say that you are to blame for how the narcissist's abuse makes you feel. They say that no one can make you feel anything. That if you feel bad about abuse, it's your fault. Specifically, you lack self-esteem. Shame on you. That makes you a victim. And it's bad to be a victim.
If that isn't blaming the victim, I don't know what is.
I ran across this example on the web: It starts off in the title saying that no one can make you feel anything, though the writer admits it's hard to achieve this mental armor.
Lets say someone comes up to you and says you are a liar. Inside you know you always tell the truth, you are confident in that and don't feel threatened by the accusations of this other person because you know youself, you know how you treat people and you don't care what others believe about you, you let your actions speak for you. The idea is if your self esteem is HIGH enough, and you are not dependant on the opinions of others, then you would be able to blow this off and feel secure in the knowledge that you are not a liar. The power then, that this other person seems to have over you is lost because you know the truth and you have faith in yourself/ your higher power.
It's hard to know where to begin disentangling this mess.
Presumably, the third sentence contradicts the second because the writer got the cart ahead of the horse and meant to say that 'only if your self-esteem is high will you be able to know that you are not a liar, etc.' Which is absurd. Your self-esteem can be in the pits, and you'll still know that you're not a liar.
This literary spaghetti confuses mere insecurity with being brain-dead, so brain-dead that if someone tells you that you are 3 feet tall, you believe them.
And what follows doesn't follow: "You know you always tell the truth, so you are confident and don't feel threatened by the accusation, and you don't care what others believe about you." There are two – count 'em, two – absurdities in that sentence.
First, being honest makes you feel unthreatened by the accusation that you are a liar? That's absurd. Being honest does not make you immune to damage by being called a liar. If you are a liar, THEN you suffer no real damage by being called a liar, because then you are just getting the reputation you deserve. That's justice. No foul. But when you're honest, that false accusation can make your whole past life go up in smoke. That's damage. The threat is real, and if you don't feel it, you are off ga-ga land.
Second, because you know you're honest, you don't care what others believe about you? That's a non sequitur. And anyone who says they don't care what others think about them is either deluded or lying.
Now for the self-esteem thing. First, self-esteem itself is but a feeling. It's your emotional response to how you treat yourself. People who force you to knuckle under to abuse beat it down, because they have made you stoop.
So, this guy is saying that if you pump up one feeling enough (your self-esteem) you won't ever be made to feel other (bad) feelings? That's another non sequitur.
That's two gigantic leaps of illogic.
Your self-esteem, among other things, will figure into your emotional response to this false accusation or any other kind of abuse. But the main factors will be whether the accusation is true and who the accuser is.
For example, have you ever incurred the wrath of a tempestuous little child? She stamps her foot at what you're saying and yells, "You're a liar!" You are not going to be bothered by that, are you? In fact, you'll be amused and have to try to hide your amusement so as not to rub it in. Why? Because you don't feel threatened by the accusation of a child.
But if your boss calls you a liar, that's a whole different thing. You are threatened by that, just by virtue of who he or she is. And you can't make his power over you go away by just pumping up your self-esteem.
So, the circumstances and the accuser have much more to do with your feelings than your self-esteem does. If you need fear that this accusation is going to be spread all over town, you are off in ga-ga land if it doesn't evoke a very strong negative emotion in you.
And any sensible, thinking person knows all this, so where is this half-baked doctrine coming from?
What's more, if it is a FALSE accusation, you will be all the more angry. Correction, you will be outraged, because your sense of shame and your sense of justice are being outraged. Yes, your sense of shame, because (contrary to this sloppy thinking) shame isn't guilt: shame is something others put on you. It wounds the innocent far more deeply than the guilty. Indeed, the most damaged are the most innocent.
Note that this preacher of codependency even says that you don't counter the false accusation. You just let your actions do the talking. In other words, you act like the offense didn't happen.
If that isn't aspiring to victimhood, I don't know what is.
I'm a firm believer in the victim rising from the dust as soon as possible and thundering with both fists in the air.
What's so horrible about admitting that other people's treatment of you can make you experience negative feelings as well as positive ones? Is that too scary, or what? Isn't it narcissistic to be in denial of that fact? Why do people need to feel in control of their feelings? And notice how it all comes down to power in the end. Why do people feel the need to be more powerful than their abuser? That too is exactly how the scared-of-his-own-shadow narcissist thinks.
He NEEDS to control others because he is terrified of a world in which he isn't more powerful. He NEEDS to feel in control of his feelings because he is a big baby who can't take them. He too regards feelings as weakness, so he represses them. Deludes himself about them. He too pumps up his self-esteem. Or, he thinks he does. He just pretends he has high self-esteem and represses awareness of his low self-esteem.
I don't think the cure for narcissistic abuse is to become like the narcissist who abused you.
Some feelings are pleasant, and some are unpleasant. Some, like anger and sorrow are emotional pain. Of course we don't like feeling them. At least if we are normal we don't. But does that mean they are intolerable? That they should be feared?
I know that fear is the first thing to go when you "descend into Hell and rise again."
Owned and acknowledged, feelings are not harmful, just painful. And they pass if you don't keep them buried in your subconscious. In fact, those unpleasant emotions are good for you in a way. They MOTIVATE you to do something about the theft or abuse. Without those feelings we'd all be pathetic wimps.
Numb ones betraying ourselves by going around and acting as though it didn't happen.
Note that those who "believe in codependency" always talk as though a person's feelings automate his or her conduct. But this obviously isn't true. At a very early age, we learn to stop being impulsive. That's a character trait of childhood that normal people leave behind. We learn to keep the rational mind in control of our behavior, even when angry. So, what is wrong with these people? Have they failed to learn this? Are they still so childish that their own behavior is driven by their emotions? Listen to them. They talk as though they have no idea that a human being has any self-control. They equate feeling angry with losing your temper and acting out to do something bad.
Their unnatural solution is to numb their natural feelings instead of to just grow up and practice self-control of their words and deeds.
http://narc-attack.blogspot.com/2008/03/no...dependence.html
In the few years I have been learning, training & subsequently coaching abused women I have NEVER EVER seen a co-dependent or co-narcissist involved with an N or P. The only co-dependents I met were with alcoholic and/or drug abusers.
Think about it, if YOU are diagnosed with a "problem" too - your therapist can keep you in therapy working on YOUR problem. cha-ching$$$
But what is harder, and the right thing to do, is to DEPROGRAM you from the mind-control. Restore some of your self-esteem. Let you talk until its ALL out of you and let you have your "a-ha" moment. This takes about 18-24 months give or take depending on the person, IMHO. But I am not a doctor... just a fellow victim who's been there, done that and sold more t-shirts than I can count.
YOU don't have a problem Your only problem was HIM... and then it's getting the toxic sludge he left behind OUT OF YOUR MIND & HEART.
::off-soapbox mode::
Thanks break...I'll need to read this more than once but there is lots to think about in there.
Lies, false accusations...one of the things that hurt the most was our friends who concluded my accusations of abuse were a legal ploy to gain custody. I never responded. Maybe I should have. The days of me covering for H are over.
Day 2, my family is still at the beach (with said friends). H called this morning to 'check on me', I cut it short (cheerfully) since I was at work. It's so nice and calm, just me and the dog, chillin'. Being alone isn't so bad. Peace.
The idea of going to a movie sounds rather appealing this weekend. Gee, I haven't felt like doing that in a long time. I really must do something about my isolating behavior. One day at a time, Goldey, one day at a time. Peace.
I really must do something about my isolating behavior.
Take your dog to a park. Your dog will make sure you meet some new people and get some exercise.
Cheers
I heard this song today and thought of you. Turn it up, baby...
"you don't know how beautiful you are..."
Get On Your Boots
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ7zKeYhU_8
Obviously, Bono lurks on the boards. He followed my sitch and wrote a song for me. Now that's cool. Peace.
p.s. That's not me in the video. I would have moved things around on my schedule if he had asked.
Hey Ms. G..
*hugs* I love your wit.
I was shocked while reading Codependent No More that so many things I did that I thought were good for my family turned out to be oh so bad.
Reading The Four Agreements (listed on my signature line), helped create a standard to live by.
Radical Forgiveness is based on immediately forgiving the person for their behavior because what they're saying is actually striking a nerve within you. That big reactions come from unresolved hurts within. I didn't understand it until the friend who told me about the book started teasing me. I asked him to stop. He kept doing it. I asked to listen to me, that this was upsetting me. He continued. I got angry and was in tears.
"Well, you've got to forgive me." he said.
"What??"
"Well.. you don't get upset when I curse, it doesn't bother you if I do X, Y or Z. But if I tease you, something snaps within you. Maybe your family teased too much. Maybe it reminds you of how your spouse treated you. Whatever is happening is happening within you. Accept it, be aware of it and you can start working on it."
"Damn... hmmmm."
The underlying message is... do what it takes to get healthy in mind, body and spirit. The rest will follow.
You are a wonderful woman. The truth comes out. People like to take sides and have opinions over juicy topics.
Find a better counselor. A counselor can't be more expensive than the rent you were shelling out.
Fear is an intimidating beast. My counselor's focus was on me getting healthy, which meant that I stop doing things that hurt me.
I still want the same thing. To give the three bears the best I've got. Now I have to figure out how to do that. Peace.
Get healthy first, the rest will follow. Put the I in Goldey.
Your boundaries sound good, like calling the police if he's out of control. Give something to yourself. Do for you. Get out and GAL. Heck, meet up with Kerry and see who can handle the spiciest food.
And those boots can help you walk the walk. You are a super hero.
*hugs*