Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: lostlove why it takes d for so many to "get it" - 07/03/09 03:41 PM
I'm sure there are plenty of men out there who where taken by surprize when their w up and filed for d. Maybe their w was/is having an a to add on top of the confusion. Your r seemed fine and then all of a sudden wham. Those are not the men I am questioning.

I've been with my h for 20 years, 12 of them married. I found this site when h had his ea with ow and moved out wanting a d. Eventually he came home and there was a short honeymoon period where I believed things were going to get better. Things didn't get better. They got worse with each passing year. No matter how many letters I wrote, converstaions I had, actions I took, 180's I did... My h just didn't seem to get it..or claimed to get it and that things would improve only to fall right back into his old unproductive ways. After years of struggle I finally made the decision that this m was unhealthy for me and therefore unhealthy for the children and filed for d.
Suddenly h is going to c and trying to improve his life and wants nothing but to prove to me that the way he has behaved for the past decade plus is no indicator of how the rest of our lives could be if I just give him the chance. I'm expected to believe that this time will be different (he wont go back to his old ways) because well this is "it".

If it took me filing for d to get him to "get it" if he in fact gets it that just seems wrong to me.

so many on this site ask WTH is wrong with the waw what is she thinking..I'd like to know WTH is wrong with the men in this world that despite all warning they'll let their m fall to a point where the only solution seems D and then when their w files they suddenly claim willing to do the work to repair it?

LL
Posted By: antlers Re: why it takes d for so many to "get it" - 07/03/09 05:35 PM
I'd love to reply to this one...so I will!

I wish it hadn't taken my wife leaving me for me to become a better man, a better father, and a better partner...but it did...and I am!

I had my head so far up my own a$$ that I didn't know how miserable and unhappy she was. I was selfish and self-centered. I had insecurities, that had nothing to do with her, that caused me to feel inadequate and unlovable...and unfortunately I vented at my wife in the form of anger, verbal abuse, and resentment.

Prior to her leaving, her 2x4's to my head weren't swung hard enough (because of my hard head) to get my attention.

I don't know if I'll get a chance. But I am a better man, and a better father, and a better partner than I have ever been in my life. I made these changes because they needed to be made...period! I didn't make them for ANY other reason.

I'm sure that every situation is different...but there are more similarities here on this board than maybe we realize too!

I wish you success lostlove.
In perfect agreement with Antlers there, and just sum it up to cliffnotes: the M was taken for granted, you don't know what you've got until it's gone. Unfortunately most men are thick headed (there's some women out there too the same).
Agreed with what both above posters said - I took M and W for granted was too busy wasting my time doing stupid things - being self-centered and jealous, and I am so thick headed that the 2x4 warnings that the W gave me didn't do much good(I think my head actually broke the 2x4). The next ones hurt - and because of them I am becoming a better man, father and hopefully husband.
Posted By: lostlove Re: why it takes d for so many to "get it" - 07/07/09 10:24 PM
so if you now suddenly understand that you were not being a good husband/father inspite of your w's attempts at getting you to see BEFORE she decided to file or tell you it was over why do you expect that now she'll believe you will behave any differently if she continues to stay m to you?

Seems men need that game of cat and mouse...ingore us when we want you but when we are fed up and don't want to be with you anymore that's when you'll pull out all the stops to get us to stay..as soon as we accept and want to be with you there is no more chase and you resort right back to your old ways.

Why would we want to continue that pattern? And for that matter why would you?

LL
Posted By: antlers Re: why it takes d for so many to "get it" - 07/07/09 10:57 PM
Originally Posted By: lostlove
so if you now suddenly understand that you were not being a good husband/father inspite of your w's attempts at getting you to see BEFORE she decided to file or tell you it was over why do you expect that now she'll believe you will behave any differently if she continues to stay m to you?

Seems men need that game of cat and mouse...ingore us when we want you but when we are fed up and don't want to be with you anymore that's when you'll pull out all the stops to get us to stay..as soon as we accept and want to be with you there is no more chase and you resort right back to your old ways.

Why would we want to continue that pattern? And for that matter why would you?

LL


There wasn't anything "suddenly" about it lostlove! It was a process, a 'learning' process. I didn't realize the damage I was doing at the time. But I got 'smacked' hard enough to finally realize it! Then I went to work on myself...I learned. I'm now a better man, father, and partner than I've ever been in my life! I made the changes because they needed to be made! Plain and simple...and for no other reason! I don't have any control over what she believes now...I didn't make these changes to change her beliefs! But...I did make them! She can believe what she chooses to believe. I don't 'expect' anything...I just know that I'm a better antlers now! If she continues to stay married to me...she will definately benefit from the changes that I've made. If she chooses to divorce me...then she won't benefit from my changes. Regardless...I will continue to be the man that I should have been all along!

Sometimes, unfortunately, that's what it takes for some of us to realize that we've been screwing up badly! Respectfully, don't mindread! You might have that conversation in your own head, and actually believe that, but that doesn't mean that's the way it is. I'm gonna be the man I should have been all along...no matter what! I'm not resorting back to my old ways! Ever! I have no control over her beliefs...if she chooses to believe that I haven't changed, or that I will resort back to my old ways...I have no control over that! I'm gonna do what I think is right, and she can believe what she will.

I have no desire, or intention, to continue any pattern...nor do I want/expect her to. People can certainly change for the better.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: why it takes d for so many to "get it" - 07/07/09 11:37 PM
I think Antlers has learned a very painful lesson. In trying to be unpartial here, I do believe if his W had made up with him and gone back home as soon as he decided to make those changes.....he might not have continued along that path of improvement. But, as long as it is taking her, I am in great hopes that those improvements are going to be for life. If his W doesn't change her mind and they can have a life together, I believe he is going to make a great H for another woman. But isn't it sad that the first W couldn't have that great H for herself? This is not to make you feel bad, Antlers, but I have seen that in many second marriages. Even when the first M was a good one....and the W would die....the H would have "learned" a lot of things from M and by the time he married the second time, he became a better H b/c of what he learned the first time around. One example: I cried so hard when my BIL got M to his second W after my SIL passed away. He was a much better H to the second W than the first. His first W practically worshipped him! His second W wasn't near as good to him. Ironic, isn't it? But....that is just the way we humans are. We have to learn.

In reading LL's post, I know there is much, much pain in what she says. In fact, I've been reading that in most of the posts here. Everyone is hurting. Many LBS's are angry, hurt, resentful, etc.,due to the way they have been done. All WAS are not horrible people, nor are all LBS. Sometimes I start getting too harsh in the way I say things, or I misread some post (like I did the other day) and say something too strong. In fact, there have been times that I had to just back off for a few days in order to take a deep breath and then come back. All of us are here to support each other.....and to learn from each other.

I have had to endure some pretty bad talk about WAW's while I've been here, but I know that for the most part....what is said it the truth. But, like I just told another poster....all LBH's aren't angels. Right? I think the world will never become a boring place with all of us different people who populate it. Do you agree?

Take care,
Sandi

In complete agreeance with Antlers yet again.

And to touch on something sandi brought up, what was your contirbution to the breakdown of the M lostlove? Your H didn't do it all on his own.
Posted By: lostlove Re: why it takes d for so many to "get it" - 07/08/09 02:51 PM
Originally Posted By: dday101798
In complete agreeance with Antlers yet again.

And to touch on something sandi brought up, what was your contirbution to the breakdown of the M lostlove? Your H didn't do it all on his own.


I accepted it all. Sure I expressed my dissatisfaction and gave warnings of where the m was going if things didn't change but I didn't file until I had reached a point where I do not believe I can trust or accept him as a true partner.

I am not perfect..no one is but I doubt even my h would be able to give you the kind of answer your expecting.

My h couldn't deal with the pressures of life and instead of coming to me with those pressures and realizing we may have shared the same human fears he found other outlets that took him away from the family ie: OW, Alcohol, Sports, Gambeling etc.

LL
Hi lostlove...I appreciate your question, and yes it is a bit perplexing in a case like yours, where you have repeatedly stated what you want and need, didn't get it, finally give up, file for D, and NOW he's willing to work on it...but not before.

But...well...I'd like to ask a few similar questions:

Why does it take an accident resulting in a spinal cord injury and paralysis in order for a man to realize what a blessing it is to walk?

Why does it take a diagnosis of a fatal disease for some people to really be able to embrace and enjoy what life they have left?

Why does it take a close friend dying for you to understand how much that friend meant to you?

Why will we wail to the heavens "if only I could talk to deceased friend just one more time and tell them how much I love them", instead of just telling them that every day while they are alive?

Why does it take your child getting seriously or life threateningly ill for you to realize that you should always exhibit more patience with your child?

Why does it take getting old and all your joints giving out and hurting, before you realize how grateful you should be while you are young and your joints don't feel pain?

Why does it take your car breaking down before you realize how much you should appreciate things like having transportation?

I hope you see my point.

I'm not meaning to downplay your question. I am divorced, and I had to ask the same question, over and over. But that was several years ago now, and I'm finaly starting to get it...this "problem" isn't just about appreciating our marriages, its about appreciating every blessing in your life.

Each day that we take our loved ones for granted and refuse to acknowlegde our many blessings, is a day you will regret in the future. Because no matter who you are, your future WILL include the death of all of your loved ones, possibly long, painful deaths, and other tragedies along the way...until finally, your own death. Why do we wait until we are close to death or until it has already occured, before we realize how very blessed each moment, each breath, each walking step taken on healthy legs, each willful child giving you a hard time....really is?

DQ
Posted By: lostlove Re: why it takes d for so many to "get it" - 07/09/09 07:11 PM
I certainly see your point DanceQueen but then I also don't. I realize that it takes some people loosing things to realize what they have... I understand the concept of "you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone" I've cleaned out my closet enough times to know that sweater I never wore and added to the donation pile is suddenly the one I wish I saved.

I don't take the people in my life for granted...never have. I don't take relationships, my health, my children, my family etc for grantide. I don't hold onto the false idea that if I spend all my time now keeping a clean house and rearing the kids the right way while my h works and takes on his own hobbies and interest (healthy or not) that someday when the kids are grown we'll have a wonderful m. It puzzles me that something so natural like valueing the people around you and the relationships you have with them should be something that has to be shocked into another person. Of course if it has to be shocked into a person then is it genuine at all anyway?

I do feel bad for all the LBS who do understand and are victims of the parasites we call ow/om who invade a sick m making it even more unhealthy, but I am not like the was they are dealing with. I have been them for far too many years I've only decided to not take it anymore.

LL
Lost - I guess when I was saying "you" in my questions, I didn't actually mean YOU.

I just meant that this is a very common problem for many many people.

Maybe you do appreciate everyone and everything in your life every day of your life. But see, most people do not. Most people are always feeling a lack, wishing for more, feeling entitled to "more" (whatever "more" is), taking their peeps for granted, taking their blessings for granted.

Therefore, my point is, this is a very universal human trait. It is not just applied to taking marriages for granted, but EVERY blessing in our lives. Most people (not you apparently) do not wake up until they get their wake up call.

Me personally, my brother is paralyzed from a spinal cord injury, my best friend died when I was 23 years old, one of my children was molested by an outside family member, I've been divorced and had to file bankruptcy, my mother had cancer...blah blah blah and on and on. Finally at some point, these "tragedies" taught me the one lesson that ever mattered in life: appreciate EVERYTHING.

And "everything" also includes horrible learning experiences, like bankruptcy and divorce.

Maybe you have already understood this lesson. If that is the case, be grateful you are not afflicted with the apathy and entitlement issues that others have.

DQ
Posted By: lostlove Re: why it takes d for so many to "get it" - 07/09/09 10:44 PM
Originally Posted By: DanceQueen

Maybe you have already understood this lesson. If that is the case, be grateful you are not afflicted with the apathy and entitlement issues that others have.

DQ


I am grateful that somehow the life I was given with it's ups and downs opened my eyes at an earlier age than it would seem most learn that appreciation.

I'm sorry that I feel everyone is entitled to some peace and respect in their home and sometimes the means to that peace is by removing the person who has not yet realized the negative impact their behaviour is having on those around them. Why live with a stranger when you can live alone?

LL
Posted By: antlers Re: why it takes d for so many to "get it" - 07/09/09 11:32 PM
Originally Posted By: lostlove

I'm sorry that I feel everyone is entitled to some peace and respect in their home and sometimes the means to that peace is by "removing the person who has not yet realized the negative impact their behaviour is having on those around them."
LL



What about those of us who 'have' realized the negative impact our behavior was having on those around us? DanceQueen has made some good and rational responses to some of your questions. People 'can' change...if they want to bad enough to do the work! I realize every situation is different, and...as Sandi said earlier, I see a lot of pain and disappointment in your posts. I'm sorry you have experienced what you have!
Posted By: lostlove Re: why it takes d for so many to "get it" - 07/10/09 01:11 PM
I wonder if you all would feel the same way if the shoe was on the other foot.

LL
Posted By: antlers Re: why it takes d for so many to "get it" - 07/10/09 03:42 PM
Originally Posted By: lostlove
I wonder if you all would feel the same way if the shoe was on the other foot.

LL


Knowing what I know now...I certainly hope so!
LL - I'm not sure what you mean at all. I don't know your sitch much, but I have not advocated at all that you should stay with your H. Remember, I AM DIVORCED, and contrary to the fact that this is a divorce-busting board, my divorce was (ultimately) the best thing that ever happened for my life.

So...I don't know what you *think* I'm trying to say, but it certainly isn't that you should stay with your H!

All I was doing was answering the topic of your thread in a direct and literal manner. My answer had nothing to do with your decision to stay or leave your H.

DQ
Posted By: antlers Re: why it takes d for so many to "get it" - 07/10/09 04:31 PM
I didn't take it that way either, and I don't think she took it that way. She might have been responding to me, and the other LBS who responded to her. I thought your initial response was very insightful, rational, truthful, and thoughtful. It 'is' possible for people to change...if they want to bad enough, and are willing to do the work. That doesn't mean that all is forgiven, or that trust is restored, or anything else. It simply means that people who are angry, resentful, and abusive CAN change...I have, so I know it's possible! Sometimes the hurt may be too much that no matter what, the WAW isn't willing to go back...the hurt may be so great that the marriage isn't salvagable because of the WAW's feelings. If that's the case...then it is what it is. Regardless, being a better man, a better father, and a better partner will increase the happiness of the LBS...as well as his kids and his wife, or another woman on down the line...if that's the case. I think lostlove has experienced some great pain and disappointment in her relationship...and I'm sorry that she has. We men can be selfish, self-centered, rotten pricks sometimes!
Originally Posted By: lostlove
I wonder if you all would feel the same way if the shoe was on the other foot.

LL


I agree most everything you have said as well as the others, but one thing I would like to point out to you is your statement above. For me the LBS, the shoe 'has' been on the other foot as well.

There is no OM in my sitch either, but my W has decided to call it quits. That was the final 2x4 I needed to see clearly back over the last few years what had been happening.

For me, the LBS, I was also angry/resentful/hurt at what was happening. I could sense something was wrong, but it was never articulated well, and not knowing what to do, I did the best I could without the 'tools' I really needed to make changes. Unfortunately, those were all the WRONG things to do, pursue, beg, etc.

That is your natural reaction to what's happening, all the DB tools, personal growth tools, etc you have to use go AGAINST what your natural reaction would be. Once you have hit the bottom, or come to understand the tools and see the way the tools and personal growth for yourself will work, it's then too late for the WAS.

However, as the LBS, I had committed to sickness/health/death do us part, and still do to this day, that no matter what happened I would work on our MR. But that's not so for the WAS. At times I wanted to leave as well, my love had ebbed also, but not my commitment to her. I feel that my natural reaction to what was happening was a form of 'sickness' that you can't see without reaching the darkest bottom of your MR.

I want my STBXW to someday realize this, but I can't be the one to point that out, can you look at your LBS and understand these things? That for the LBS it's just as hard, emotionally as you?

These things I understand now, and what makes it hard on me as the LBS as well, as I am still committed to my MR, and my STBXW, and understand the depths of her anger and pain, as I feel it as well, and so I will let her go. It's not what I want, it's what she wants, and I am willing to live with that so she can be the person she wants to be.
Posted By: antlers Re: why it takes d for so many to "get it" - 07/10/09 07:08 PM
And that's an example of true compassion! You have genuine sympathy for her suffering, and the will to help remove her pain. It's not just an emotional response...but a firm committment founded on reason. A truly compassionate attitude doesn't change even if she behaves negatively towards you. And you have this same compassionate attitude towards yourself! It's a good, no great, thing! Way to go iwantittowork! Kudos!
Antlers I agree with you completely. Being a LBS as well I have taken the last few months here to really look within. I know that I am a better person than the one I was a few months ago and I know that I continue to improve daily. I hope and pray every day that the W will see the changes and want to be a part of them. LL I know it is hard to see. Looking back at myself and how I acted I think how silly it was. At the time it did not seem that abnormal. It was mirroring the way I was brought up. It was not a good lifestyle but that is how I was raised. It took me having to step back and take a look at it and see that there is a better life for me as a father and hopefully a husband again someday. I really do think that this time we have been apart has been good because these changes that I have made have become more permanent. Had we been able to live together again right after she left I feel like things probably would have gone back to the way they were. I am sorry for the pain you must feel LL. I can only imagine that my W was feeling some of the same things. At this point for our R I know it could work for both of us, I just pray that she gives me the opportunity.
RTQ
Posted By: lostlove Re: why it takes d for so many to "get it" - 07/24/09 02:07 AM
Originally Posted By: Refuse to quit
I really do think that this time we have been apart has been good because these changes that I have made have become more permanent. Had we been able to live together again right after she left I feel like things probably would have gone back to the way they were.
RTQ


RTQ,

There in lies the trouble! H didn't move out..we continue to share the same bed.

We did go through a sep 8 years ago when he had OW and moved out wanted a D because well "I love you I'm not in love with you". Upon his return home he claimed to have realized a lot of things and that he wanted to be a better h and father. He eventually fell right back into his old ways.

When I confront him with my question of "why should I believe anything will really be different now" he claims to have had an enlightenment and that things can't go back to the way they were because this is "it".

Things have been improving but I'm not certain if

1. I can believe it's real and will last
2. I can get past the past
3. accept that I may never know exactly what the past holds.
4. I can feel lovingly toward h again (I don't hate him I just don't feel a desire to be close to him anymore)

LL
Posted By: Esox Re: why it takes d for so many to "get it" - 07/24/09 03:02 PM
Let me take your points:

1. It might not last. Then again, it might. If it did, would you be happy?

2. Not everyone can get past adultery. Sometimes it is a deal breaker. Only you know what you can stomach.

3. If you want the key to the past ask. If your H is serious about reconcilliation he will willingly tell you everything you want to know. If he won't then he is still gaming you.

4. Life is uncertain. Love is a verb, not a feeling. You love someone because you choose to. Infatuation, lust, longing, those are feelings and they come on go.

I love my wife because I choose to. I just don't like her much sometimes.
OK Interesting thread
I've been the LBS for about 4 years now and poked back in for a bit

One thing I did was to research adNauseum what and why things went wrong. Read self help to the cows came home. Listened to many stories from others going through the same thing. Read this board till my eyes bled. (not really)

Anyway I came up with one common thread

The two do not connect emotionally with eachother. Her fault, His fault (that's the common theme blame the Selfish man), no ones fault (circumstances ect.) it is the only thing I have seen that is common.

How one does that? Outside of opening yourself up and risking initial rejection I have no idea. It is a decision both should make before the I Dos.

I've worked as a beach lifeguard for 3 summers and saw a lot of people. At the end of the day we seem like bartenders and hear all kinds of stories which after you filter out the he/she did me wrong crap the common thread is in full view.

Once in a while you get a lady (since that is whom I most listen to) will admit they were selfish, stupid, and threw a good thing away but I've heard some stories like this thread from a few guys but most of both sexes just as the owner of this thread states "Just don't get it"

Well I did not get it until several bombs in the Iraqi desert helped out a bit. 2X4s were too quiet.

I could add mine also but would just be repeating other Gentlemen's tales and I applaud their honesty in announcing the fact they and I are simply reaping what we sowed. It is a lonely and bitter harvest made worse by the realization of the pain we caused others we promised to love.

It is not to say I would go back to said X since she has performed many misdeeds most of which she has no clue of my knowledge. Just the exchange of she did vs he did is pointless. The point is we (Men and Women) had a chance to connect and for some reason did not. That is the two becomes one said by the Preacher on the wedding day.

For those who honestly tried and was the reaper of what their partner sowed you have my sympathy. I can give little else.

To the ones like me who have to live with theirselves after the realization they are not God's gift to the other sex but quite the contrary the best advice I could give decide what you want to be, fix yourself, then and not before if you wish to find a partner to connect with. Only if you wish and are willing to put up the sacrifice.

I for one am not. My motivation is elsewhere in activities not tried, places not seen, and adventures not experienced. To trade them in for a partner would make the connection too expensive in life terms and would probably be a repeat of past mistakes and misdeeds.

One more thing I would look at if you are looking at yourself or someone else evaluating their worthiness or your own.

It's easy to turn over a leaf when disaster strikes and either pull yourself up by the bootstraps or come together for a common cause. Sick Child, Spouse, natural disaster often brings out the best in us.

It's hard to do the same and sacrifice when you are doing well. You are not feeling the bite of rejection or loss. Pain is God's megaphone but is wispering during pleasure. I believe when one sacrifices properly during these times is the real test of character.

I failed it and it seems I have good company.
have a good one
Posted By: antlers Re: why it takes d for so many to "get it" - 08/02/09 08:39 PM
Well, it's worth it to me, to do everything in my power, to become something that I wasn't...for my children, for my partner, and for myself. I am succeeding; it's a work in progress!
Will my wife eventually give me another chance? I don't know! If she does...we will all be better off. If not...then I will still be a better man, a better father, and a better partner than I've ever been!
Posted By: lostlove Re: why it takes d for so many to "get it" - 09/15/09 08:25 PM
I often come here with a though or feeling to convey and then spend time reading the past responses to my thread and lose sight of what exactly it was that brought me here.

For now all I can say is that I have stopped the D proceedings but I am not certain I am happy about that decision. Things occassionally show a glimmer of possibility but I often find myself unaccepting of them. It's like there is a voice in my head telling me it's all a lie, he'll just revert to his old ways or find a new negative way as always. There are far too many issues that need addressing. I have too many questions that are not being answerd. In the end does it matter why well maybe it's not so much the why I want to understand it's the how, the what were you thinking or feeling when you were bahaving in x fashion.

LL
Posted By: antlers Re: why it takes d for so many to "get it" - 09/15/09 09:52 PM
Hi lostlove.

"We men can be as dumb as hammers, but we can change...and when we do, it can be profound." - RedSoxFan

This ia a TRUE statement.
Posted By: lostlove Re: why it takes d for so many to "get it" - 09/16/09 01:06 AM
antlers I get that. I accept that change is possible it's more that little changes aren't exactly what is needed at this point.

little things build up...simple things asked for and not recieved (choose your love language I'm not speaking of monotary things), the little things eventually don't even matter they are seen for what they are and appreciated as tokens but the gaping hole in the r has become bigger than what they can fill.

I am having a hard time rapping my mind around HOW h could let things get so bad.

I don't know if I can accept him anymore, I don't know if I can trust him anymore (and don't bother telling me I don't know if I could trust the next guy because I honestly don't want a next guy I'd prefer to be on my own for a very long time)

H has always known where I stand, how I feel because I've communicated it.

H has no explanation at all for his behaviour over the past 8 years (it was h's ea and bomb dropping that brought me here in 2002)

I was left to feel like h was just here because it was the right thing to do but if given the freedom to choose without any moral, social ramifications he'd not be. His behaviour and his past words ( ILBNILWY, EA, Seperation, Bomb dropping,etc) had me convinced my filing and ending the confusion (since he didn't listen to my words in conversation or letters) was the right thing to do. That we'd both be better off, healthier and happier apart. That maybe we just don't fit and honestly never did. After all he did say he married me because "it was the next step" but "it was never there"

I'm all over the place with this I know

I am not a waw I am the LBS who's spouse came home but only in body (and didn't even share that ssm too)

LL
Posted By: antlers Re: why it takes d for so many to "get it" - 09/16/09 03:16 PM
Originally Posted By: lostlove


I am having a hard time rapping my mind around HOW h could let things get so bad.


LL


I can only speak for myself...I didn't realize the damage that I was doing. I was selfish and self centered, and I took her for granted, and I made her walk on eggshells. I was wrong for that, and I completely understand her feeling the way she does...and I don't blame her!
Posted By: lostlove Re: why it takes d for so many to "get it" - 09/16/09 04:21 PM
There is what in part is missing from my sitch. H will admit to some wrong doing or accept that his behaviour was distructive but does not admit to being/having been selfish or wrong. In fact it almost seems as if (by some of his phrases) his poor behaviour is excusable because after all he was still paying the bills and taking the trash to the dump.

How does paying the bills make up for having affairs, being emoitionally and physically absent, lying, neglect etc.

Somehow in my h's mind being a good financial provider = being a good husband and the other things are insignificant no need to be a friend, companion, partner, lover, co-parent just pay the bills, cut the lawn and take the trash to the dump and you're covered no matter what you do wrong?

When I explain to h how I feel and that it's difficult for me to accept that his changes are real, genuine and lasting based on past experience with him the things that he has done that have hurt our r are thrown asside and replaced with "I've given you a pretty good life haven't I"

Because I've had a roof over my head and food in the fridge I shouldn't be hurt or feel a loss for not having had the basic elements of a r?

LL
Posted By: walterh Re: why it takes d for so many to "get it" - 09/16/09 06:04 PM
I fully admitted that I was wrong in so many ways and I see what I took for granted (her love and comittment and an opportunity to be with my kids every second possible) and I begged and pleased with her that what we have was worth fighting for and that my changes would take time. Unfortunately she says it was "too little to late" for her but I am now seeing that many signs of a MLC/WAW (although she wants the kids) are surfacing. It is so hard to not focus on what "could have been" but this is the game we play called life I guess.

I am determined to take every opportunity I can to spend with my children and make the best of it. As for her, it saddens me that while she is "finding herself" that my love for her dies a little every day.
Posted By: lostlove Re: why it takes d for so many to "get it" - 09/16/09 09:17 PM
I am sorry for those husbands who truly get it, own up to their wrongs, are willing to do the work and make positive change and are denied the opportunity to do so. I will however caution you all from labeling your w's as suffering from waw or mlc. Imagine if there were a label for the h's who are neglectful, uninvolved, unnappreciative etc would you like to have it placed on you?

I am not a waw though I don't know anymore if I want to or am even capable of working on this m. I am not having an MLC though I would like to make some drastic changes in my lifestyle. I am not an alien though at times I say things that may sound just like what other's are hearing. I am simply a human being trying to get through this thing called life and marriage.

LL
Posted By: walterh Re: why it takes d for so many to "get it" - 09/16/09 09:32 PM
LostLove,
I understand what you are saying but when the bomb is dropped and it is told to a H that it is because of not helping enough, neglect or whatever the case may be and then within a month the wife wants to start going out all the time and "have her independence" it sends a mixed message to the husband. It is just my opinion that if the W says "I love you more than anything in the world but I still want a divorce OR they are not willing to give another chance than just let the H go and make it known. Not just with words but with actions too. I'm not trying to come across as lashing back at you but in my case I have accepted and respect my wife's decision and as I am trying to move on with my life and get better for me and my children but then she starts trying to reel me back in. I guess every case is different and that's why we are all here is to try to find some commonality.
Posted By: lostlove Re: why it takes d for so many to "get it" - 09/16/09 10:01 PM
walter,
I'm not fighting with you..just know that.
I want to point out why your response is confusing.
You are wanting to label your w as being a waw or having mlc her behaviour is confusing. Do you not understand that yours is too?
You admitted to haveing neglected her nad not helping enough and "whatever" those actions or inactions led her to believe you were not vested in the r so she filed (trying to move on with her life and get better for her and her children) but then you try to reel her back in by making changes etc when she behaves in a way you percieve as "reeling" you back in why should that stop you from "moving on with your life and getting better for you and your children". Clearly you both needed to "get better for you and your children" why does her indicision matter.

Do you see that it's not about who dropped the bomb..the one common demoninator is that all our r's were suffering. No one was right or wrong the waw was wrong (and this makes no sense to me) for waiting to file because clearly all the warnings, letters, requests, conversations etc weren't enough and the lbs was wrong for not listening until it was too late.

We're all screwed and we'll all keep going in circles until we accept that neither side is any more f'd up than the other.

LL
Posted By: walterh Re: why it takes d for so many to "get it" - 09/17/09 12:11 AM
LL,

I understand what you are saying but that is not the case. For starters neglect was never a problem and I was just using that as an example of what I have seen posted. In fact, towards the end (the last year) the dynamic of our relationship had shifted and I had become needdy, clingy and all the other reasons things that a W normally loses respect for her H (and understandably so). In other words, I was giving her TOO MUCH attention. I was simply stating that "the bomb" was about not helping enough with the kids/house but since then there has been a list of things that were never discussed or communicated at all.

The only thing that makes it worse (and I can only speak for my situation) is that just weeks before she had stated that she would not change anything about our lives together and that we would be together forever. Since then many things have been said and done (nothing bad or malicious) that have created confusion for both of us.

I have just decided that me having as little contact with her as possible is best at this time - for me and her. I see some of the LBS that post here about things that are "confusing" to them and I consider them lucky because it seems as if they are making something out of what I percieve as not a big deal. Trust me, I am not judging, as I know that many of my posts have been all over the map, but I guess that is why we are all here is to try to make sense of of chaos.

I appreciate your candor and it is always great to her a woman's perspective on all of this.
Originally Posted By: walterh
For starters neglect was never a problem and I was just using that as an example of what I have seen posted. In fact, towards the end (the last year) the dynamic of our relationship had shifted and I had become needdy, clingy and all the other reasons things that a W normally loses respect for her H (and understandably so). In other words, I was giving her TOO MUCH attention. I was simply stating that "the bomb" was about not helping enough with the kids/house but since then there has been a list of things that were never discussed or communicated at all.


As an observation walter, take into account all the bolded text in that statement, then pair them to the words "partnership" and "neglect". Epiphany you may find?
Posted By: walterh Re: why it takes d for so many to "get it" - 09/17/09 02:43 PM
I consider myself to be fairly intelligent but I'm no too sure I see it. The not helping out aspect was pretty much the case throughout the 11.5 years. Whereas the needy and clingy (and I need to add jealous too) was just towards the end. The only thing I can think of is if you mean I was focusing too much on her (in the wrong way) and not the entire family. If that's what you mean than you are correct. Not to go back and defend my actions but one more thing I forgot to add is when your spouse tells you, and everyone else that she knows, that you are the "dynamic duo" and make a great team that leads the H (me in this case) to believe that all is well. I do admit that I did not have my focus in all the right areas but I did more than my fair share in many others.
No, not what I was trying to say at all. In reading the bolded texts, how do you concider that focusing too much on your W? I read that as the exact opposite: focusing too much on yourself, hence, neglegence to the partnership.
Posted By: walterh Re: why it takes d for so many to "get it" - 09/17/09 05:14 PM
I understand what you mean. Obviously the needy and clingy was because of MY ego issues (selfish), but at the time I viewed that as giving her attention that I thought she wanted and deserved. I know now that nothing could be further from the truth. As I said before it was just the wrong kind; not to mention it detracted from me focusing on my children more because I was too worried about the future of our r (I guess for good reason). Bottom line is I know I made mistakes that I will never make again. I'm sure my posts come across as "I don't get it", but I do.
I have a question…

Why does it take a WAS to leave their family cause financial & emotion damage. Given in to a complete stranger, turn their back on siblings, children and family. Betray and destroy all the trust of friends and family. Then after 6 months to 4 years of this behavior, they “wake up” and realize that the tornado they became and the wake of damage that they left. And then when they do decide to come back they want us to forgive and forget the pain they created, but when they do what they do they tell us it’s pain that we have caused them. In reality they would find that most of the pain they felt the LBS felt some of that same pain and choose to deal with it in another way.

So I ask you & all the WAS why does it take all this for you to finally wake up????

When you find the answer to that question you will have the same answer to yours!
Posted By: EJohn Re: why it takes d for so many to "get it" - 10/04/09 07:37 AM
Have to agree with Alex. My wife told me on many occasions that I was the perfect husband, great father, and could never be happier with anyone else. Just a few months after the last time she said this (still have the email) she's in an affair and I had caused her great pain for many years, that it was all my fault, and she tried talking to me for a long time. There were absolutely no letters, no conversations, nothing stating a problem. (I had actually tried talking to her before the A because I thought we were growing apart) I own the faults that I'm aware of, but none of them were big enough to push anyone away IMHO, and I truly have no idea why she left. She won't tell me. (this certainly isn't your case LL)

Back to the original post. I think a lot of people don't want to change until they're forced to.... or it's their idea. That is human nature, my job revolves around changing behaviour in the workplace for safety, deal with it all the time.

I wish my wife would have written me letters, did 180's, ANYTHING!
AND I QUOTE

THIS IS A WAS
Originally Posted By: HOPEFULinCALI
Very Scared,

I can echo the comments of the previous posters with the exception that I didn't find that I was looking for. What I wanted was right in front of me. Unfortunately by the time I realized it he was no longer interested in making it work which is my reason for being here. I wish the best for you and hope that you are able to find the peace and support that you need here. Keep your head up and keep DBing!


THS IS A LBS
Originally Posted By: RMJ
My ex was a WAW. Like so many men I didn't see it coming and was just floored when it happened. I discovered DB in the aftermath when the relationship was well over. I tried the steps and went dark for a month. After a few weeks dark, she initiated contact and there was a glimmer of hope for bit, but the minute I started to feel like things could work out she was back to the same chaotic behavior. I finally had to take a hard look at my situation and I realized that I might be able to save my relationship if I was willing to fight it out for several months, maybe years. We met for dinner one night and I realized that it wasn't a path I could put myself through. I was already bitter about what were going through then and I couldn't imagine what I would be like after a year of that hell. I chose to close the door on the relationship and go on with life and it was the best decision I ever made. Two years out and I have a wonderful wife who is amazing and makes me thankful I made the decision I did. My WAW is now going through another divorce and has called me several times to let me know that she made a mistake and that she will never marry again. NOt that long ago I would have gloated over how right I was , now I just feel pity for her. My point is this gentlemen - if you are involved in a WAW situation, weigh carefully how far you're willing to go and what you're willing to put up with to make reconcile your marriage. A WAW is like a tornado, her life is a mass of choas that will will suck you up and throw you all over the place cauing untold damage. I sympathize and support those who are trying to make their marriage work and have children involved but if you're like I was (no kids just a crazy WAW who thought she knew exactly what she was doing) then consider what you're willing to go through. You didn't walk away, she did and a better life might be a lot closer than you think. I'm two years out from my WAW - I'm remarried and happier than I've ever been, her...well, she's asked me for help straightening out her life now but I'm not her husband anymore and can only do so much. Your choice - you didn't walk away and there are good women out there. I took what I learned here and used it my current marriage and while it may not be perfect, my eyes are open and I'm trying really hard not to make the same mistakes again. Two years out and truly, truly happy!!


Sadly they could be each other's ex's
Posted By: brknheart Re: why it takes d for so many to "get it" - 10/25/09 04:41 AM
Some interesting comments. My W can be considered a WAW. We both took the marriage for granted, she didnt stress clearly enough how unhappy she was. Her leaving and wanting a D opened my eyes and mind. Im becoming a better person. She says thats good, and I will make a good H for my next W. She says she cant love me anymore, she has no choice. Everyone has a choice. I still hope that she sees the light at and changes her mind before its to late. Ive made steps to move on, think about my future. The days are getting better. You never know what you have until its gone.
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