Well I finally decided to chime in after reading all the other posts. I am in need of advice for my own situation. I will try to keep it short, but any advice would be great.
Well I am here because me and my wife just recently got seperated. We have been married 8 years this September and been together for 12. We have a S6 and a D15(still trying toget used to these abbreviations). I guess you could saythe problems started a long time ago but I was to blind to the obvious what was happening. In the article WAW it describes me and my wife exactly. I guess I just gave up on trying in the relationship and treated her more like a friend with benefits as she put it. So when she told me on the friday before Easter I was shocked that she was that unhappy. Now that I realize that all the stuff she is talking was true and I see where I went wrong.
Now that I understand that she was not just "nagging" to nag but she was really telling me there were problems and I failed to recognize them. So now I am struggling with how to deal with all of this and to help sae my marriage to the woman who means everything to me. I have started to work on me such as working out, getting out of the house and doing stuff and not being a hermit, and just overall trying to keep busy. I try not to get emotional but I always find myself breaking down and crying everyday, try not to in front of her and the kids but did slip one time and had a total breakdown.
We do communicate everyday as I pick up my son and drop him off. I try not to hang out but she is always asking me if I want to stay and eat something or watch TV with my S. I usually decline and go about my ways. The other problem I have is that she constantly works into all hours of the night, and being how I am a full time student working nights she always wants me to come over to wake her up so she can finish work. This is where it gets confusing, everytime I do come over she tells me to wake her up in 15 minutes but wants me to lay next to her and hold her which I do. And she also wants to continue being intimate bu says it means nothing and to not read into it. I asked her why and she said I am the only guy she wants to be with. She also tells me that her heart just isn't into it anymore and she does not want to put herself back out there for her to be hurt all over again.
I am going to stop here because I have to get ready for work, but if there are any questions I will be glad to help because I need all the help I can get to start saving my marriage.
jonzy,
you've found a great place to seek advice and get support. there are many on here who will give you incredible guidance, so keep checking in and asking questions. i don't consider myself one them as I don't post that often, but did want to welcome you & let you know you're in good company.
the best advice that I can give you is to take a deep breath, collect yourself and dive into the book, DB that is. Have you purchased it yet? I can assure you that the more you resist, beg,plead & play the victim, rather than validate your W and give her some space if she needs it the more damage you will be doing.
Look at this as a gift from your wife, an opportunity to improve yourself and your marriage. In your case there seems to be some very positive signs. It doesn't appear as though your W has closed the door completely or reached a point of no return. I think w/some patience on your part, & your willingness to adopt the DB principles that you have a great shot at restoring your M.
I'm at about year 1 of seperation, but I did all of the wrong things when I heard the ILYB... talk and continued to do them for a while after the S. My resistance to the situation created a stronger bond w/the OM she was having an EA with, and that has really complicated things. The sooner you can accept the sitch you're in, accept responsibility for your actions, and again begin to adopt DB principles, the better off you'll be in the long run. I know it seems difficult right now, but trust me, things will get better no matter what happens.
Stay strong and hang in there!
I am also trying to figure out if she is having a MLC. Before everything hit he fan she started going out to the bars more often and coming home late. She never use to drive when she was drinking but she started that as well after I pleaded with her tocall me if she needed a ride. Well all of this finally caught up to her on May 5th she was pulled over for DUI. No only a regular DUI but she wa busted with an extreme DUI!!
I told her that no matter what happens between us that I will be there for her to get her through this mess. She then had a breakdown and wanted me to stay the night with her and hold her all night long. I stayed for a while but then had to leave to go to work, but she called me at work and told me to come back over. I get so confused when she does this stuff.
"I try not to hang out but she is always asking me if I want to stay and eat something or watch TV with my S. I usually decline and go about my ways."
"she always wants me to come over to wake her up so she can finish work. ... but wants me to lay next to her and hold her which I do."
"she said I am the only guy she wants to be with. She also tells me that her heart just isn't into it anymore and she does not want to put herself back out there for her to be hurt all over again."
"She then had a breakdown and wanted me to stay the night with her and hold her all night long. I stayed for a while but then had to leave to go to work, but she called me at work and told me to come back over."
Hi, OK I'm a woman I am very familiar with this kind of behavior on my part. It's very obvious from my perspective that what she wants is for you to fight for her and romance her back into your life. She needs attention but she doesn't want to ask you back because then it will be the same thing and she'll be unhappy. She wants you to make the changes and give her the attention and romance she needs in order to be in the marriage. But at this point she obviously still loves you and wants you.
I would suggest to call her up and ask her out for a date for Saturday night. Figure something to do with the kids if you need a babysitter but this is important, you can get her back and timing is everything. Don't wait on this. Make this your priority.
Maybe do what you did on your first date or the first time you feel in love. Then take her home and walk her to the door. When she invites you in say no but give her a very passionate kiss.
Then call her the next day and make a date for the next weekend. During the week, have a florist send her flowers to her work (not home) so everyone at work sees her get them.
Take it one week at a time with little calls or emails during the day. Make sure you email or call her once a day and say "I love you" to her once a day.
And keep this routine (calls, I love yous and date nights) consistent and a part of your life when you get back together.
Good luck, let us know what happens, I have a good feeling about you two.
Tink
Well I did ask her to go out with me nexsturday as she already has plans for this weekend. I asked her if she wanted to go see a movie and maybe get something to eat afterwards. We then kidded around about who was going to pay and then she said since we both love working on computers and mine needs fixed she said maybe we will do that instead! She will let me know by wednesday what she wants to do:)
As for the I love you's and such doesn't that seem like it would be to much right now? I want to take things slowly and show her that I am sincere about the changes I am making for me, and the I love you's seem like that would be a bit pushy...but I have been wrong before. Although "if" we do have this date I will send the flowers to work for her to say thanks for th evening.
Will keep updating and thanks for the advice tink!!
Hi it sounds good and you're right if it feels too pushy, wait for I love you's and stuff after the date.
But it sounds like she has some problems with receiving gifts...allowing you to treat her on a romantic date and she's taking control and turning it into her doing tech work for you.
The irony is her problem with the relationship is she wants to receive more attention but maybe she feels she doesn't deserve it.
Tink
I think I am going to tell her I already fixed my computer and say we should just catch a movie. I will see her in about an hour from now so will run it by her.
I don't think that she is taking control and turning it into her doing tech work because it is something we both do as a hobby, but you could be right that maybe she does not want anything romantic??
Hi no I think she really does want something romantic but a lot of women have difficulty allowing themselves to receive and then do something like she did, taking a wonderfully romantic gesture and trying to make it where she is doing for you instead.
I think that's good, I hope you do keep it as the movie and have a great time! (let me know what happens!)
Tink
Well we are on for the movie and dinner:) She stopped over at my place on her way home from the mall which is a long way out of her way, to see my son who I said was sleeping. She still insisted she wanted to see m so I said come on over. She stayed for about an hour and we just talked about everyday life.
I am trying my best at using all the advice I read from other posters and not talking about "us", situation, and I give her lots of room by not calling or texting to much unless its about our kids. I think and hope it is working. I started writing a journal the other day where I can let my feelings out on paper instead of to my wife.
I hope the "date" goes well because I feel like I am back in high school again and am asking the prettiest girl to go to prom with me
Again tink TY for your input here, its nice that someone is out there to talk to!!
Hi Jonzy,
You're welcome!
"I hope the "date" goes well because I feel like I am back in high school again and am asking the prettiest girl to go to prom with me"
That is great and that is the mentality to go with. Just keep it a romantic date and don't bring the R up at all. Just have fun.
...We should also have a plan of what to do/say in case she bring the R up. What do you think?
Tink
I hope the "date" goes well because I feel like I am back in high school again and am asking the prettiest girl to go to prom with me
Hi Jonzy, I'm trying to give feedback to be more involved here. If you can make her feel like the prettiest girl from school, I'm sure she would appreciate that. If she is looking for you to woo her, that's a good sign!!
Well everything just blew up! I went over to pick up my son this morning and find out that she did not come home, so instantly I start to analyze things and then when she gets home I just blow up. I asked her if she was with another man and all the other stupid crap! I think I just threw everything away because now she said she is going to get the papers on tuesday. God I screwed up so bad, it hurts to hear this woman say I don't love you like that anymore and never will! Did I blow it or is there some that have made it past this? Please help!!
Of course there are some that have made it past this! I'd be worried if she said it calmly but this came out of a yelling thing.
You went out last night together right? Then you dropped her off, then when you came over she wasn't home yet? Maybe she went out for some milk? Was your child home alone?
Take a few deep breaths. What exactly happened?
Tink
No we didn't go out ogether she already had plans made and we were supposed to go out next saturday. She went with her friends dancing and left my son at home with his sister to watch him. She ended up staying at some guys house she didn't know, supposedly with friends, after they went out drinking and dancing. She said nothing happened but I found condoms in her bag. I am so lost right now I don't know what to do, I thought everything was going good.
I did everything I was not supposed t do by accusing her of being with someone and yelling for her to tell me where she stayed. Her reply was that he does not owe me any explanations, which she doesn't, but to me we are still husband and wife and I don't want her to be with someone else while we are still "married".
Hi
I totally know how you feel. (Sorry I'm on the phone; I'll write more in a few minutes.)
Tink
Hi I'm back.
So I totally know how you feel. We were thinking she wasn't dating or doing anything else with anyone. Plus all her comments about how you're the only man she wants to be with.
Sounds like she is really confused!
I guess from now on you will have to treat her not like a wife but like a woman you are first dating, who may or may not be dating other people, since it is your first date and you are nowhere near deciding to be exclusive yet.
But still you need to decide if you even want to "date" her, knowing that she is possibly with other men.
Perhaps what she needs is for you to completely go dark and no longer be interested in going on a date next week or anything.
She needs to feel that she's lost you because of her behavior...when she almost had a second chance (next week's date), and SHE blew it.
I think you need to go dark. What do you think?
Tink
At this point I really don't know? I think if I do that it is just going to make it that much easier for her to leave! I wish my books would get here so I can have other info to go on, not saying yours hasn't been great so far tink. To be honest I think this may have been the last straw for her and she just wants to be done. But the other thing that really bothers me is she keeps calling me to see how I am doing:o If she wants to leave then do not drag o anymore. Although I will keep trying I don't know if I will succeed or not!
I think that perhaps she said that this is the last straw because she was caught and didn't know what to do so she went on the offensive.
I would venture to suggest to keep up going dark because like you said, look at how often she has been pursuing you?
She keeps calling you, asking you to come over, asking you to lie down with her, etc. That is not someone who wants to be rid of you.
Yes go dark, don't contact her because if you reach out now it's like saying that you have no respect for yourself and that you would be OK with her sleeping with another guy if that's what she is doing.
Instead don't call, text or email her and wait, I bet she will call to test without asking, to test if YOU are angry or still interested in HER.
Act distinterested and I bet she will panic that she has lost you.
Wait...how did you find condoms in her bag? Were you in the house alone and she left her pocketbook there? And if they were there then she obviously didn't bring them to where she was.
Tink
I am going to go dark and pray she does endupissing me and decides maybe she wants to work things out. It is going to be the hardest thing I have ever done, but am praying for the best.
I found the condoms in the bag that she had packed the night before she went out. When she came home she threw the bag on the bed while we were arguing and they fell out. Granted they were the condoms that we bought for us, but she had them with her...although still unopened but why would she need to carry them?
When she brought my son over she insisted that nothing happened and that i haveothing to be upset about. I just said that I was upset because she knew that she would not be coming home and that it was planned. So what am I to think when this happens? Am I wrong for thinking this?
Do I tell her that I am not giving up on the relationship but I am just letting her have her space and going to let time tell if it is meant to be? I am scared because I do not want her to get the impression that I have given up and moved on.
"Do I tell her that I am not giving up on the relationship but I am just letting her have her space and going to let time tell if it is meant to be?"
Don't you think telling her your game plan to get her back will make all you are doing lose its effect?
It's kind of like saying I really want you back, so when you don't hear from me it's because I'm giving you space so you can decide if you want me or not.
I think you need to trust yourself and the facts of what have been happening.
I'm replying to about 6 different people on this board now, and you are only one of two whose spouse keeps contacting them for chit chat.
And you are the only one (of the 6) whose spouse has said that you are the only one she wants, has asked to come over, has asked to lie with her, to hold her, to come back over.
What you are doing is working, so stay consistent.
Tink
"Granted they were the condoms that we bought for us, but she had them with her...although still unopened but why would she need to carry them?"
It's really hard to say, although for some reason I stuck a condom my fiance left here months ago in my pocketbook (just in case he ran out at his place) and I took the whole weekend off to myself, and it's still in my bag. If he came over and it fell out, he may be wondering.
It is possible she is also considering getting involved with someone or it could be that for some reason she stashed them there when she asked you to come back over or when she stopped at your place.
In any event I think it's best right now to not bring them up so that you are creating the distance and not behaving like a husband would.
"When she brought my son over she insisted that nothing happened and that i have nothing to be upset about. I just said that I was upset because she knew that she would not be coming home and that it was planned. So what am I to think when this happens? Am I wrong for thinking this?"
You're not wrong for thinking this, again you are thinking like a husband and it's natural to do so. Just "react" not like a husband but like someone removed.
Tink
Well one more curveball! Today she came over to pick up my son. And once we got to my apartment she just sat down and started working on my computer. About 5 minutes she asks me to rub her back, which I did for about 10 minutes. After she finished what she was doing she asked me to call her tomorrow so she can finish up.
She has me so confused right now I am not sure how to read her!!!
Hi,
It's really not that confusing. She obviously wants to keep you connected. The problem is that she's giving mixed messages. But I kind of see it as she's letting go of you, but she doesn't want you to let go of her.
It's anxiety-provoking to leave such a big commitment, and anxiety-provoking to return to such a big commitment, so she is walking the line.
What I am concerned about is that you are taking the passive role and just letting her push you away and then reel you in whenever she chooses.
I think you have been very consistent with going dark and such, that she keeps moving back in because you are doing such a great job.
So continue with your consistency. Don't let her fix your computer, and don't rub her back when she asks for it. Take control and say look, We are either committed or we're not committed, but I'm not going to play these games where you are fixing my computer and I'm rubbing your back. Your either in or your out.
And I think she will respect a man who will not allow her to lead him around the way she is trying not. Not completing succeeding because you have been doing a great job. Just stay consistent.
But before you do this and say this to her, let's get agreement or disagreement from a veteran on the board, like Tia, because I'm a newby, too.
Also I had a question...Oh yes, what is happening with the date for this Saturday night? Have either of you brought it up?
Tink
I do agree that I mke myself to available when ever she decides to come around. I eed to just man up and make myself unavailable in a nice way like I have planswith some friends or something.
As for the date, no neiher of us has brought up that as of yet. I think I should let this one cool off before we do something like that.
How do we get a veteranto post here? Do I need to do omething?
LOL! I really need to proof read my posts before actually posting!! sry
Hi,
I don't know I posted a moderator on a different post because the website wouldn't let me send a PM to her. Try doing so yourself on a different thread and posting this thread there...
Good, I think you need to man up too. You are really making progress, I can see it.
And I also agree don't be the one to bring up this weekend date ever ever ever. Let her bring it up (and decide beforehand what you will say) and if she doesn't bring it up just forget about it and go out by yourself or with friends that night so you're not home.
Tink
Hi I just reread your post, I was in a hurry before:
"make myself unavailable in a nice way like I have plans with some friends or something."
Super idea!
Tink
Well hit another roadblock today. I had her vaccum and she wanted me to bring it over. She also asked if I would stop and get her some milk for her as well. So I did and went to dro it off for her. I came in and said hi and such and kept the conversation short but very friendly. She asked me if I would like to have some of her steak and I just simply said no thanks. I then told her that I had to go because I had a bunch of running around to do (which I didn't) and she instantly got ticked off. She became very upset and told me I would get the papers in the mail. She also aid that my attention span was about 5 seconds long and I am still trying to figure that one out.
How do I react to this, do I wait and see if she does send the papers or do I try to talk to her?
Well I guess it is all over for us. Figured out why she was so mad. She called me up to come over and fix her garbage disposal which was not working. Since I was still in the area I went over and fixed it. I then asked her if there was anything else she needed and she said nothing you want to discuss.
Come to find out she went and talked to her lawyer today and wanted us to come to an agreement on things. I reluctantly did and now I guess the waiting game begins. I feel so empty and lost right now I do not know what to do. Even though the papers have not been filed or anything as of yet I will continue on me and go from there. This is so freaking hard I wouldn't wish this pain on my worst enemy!!
"I had her vaccum and she wanted me to bring it over. She also asked if I would stop and get her some milk for her as well. So I did and went to dro it off for her."
OK...does that sound like going dark to you?
"She asked me if I would like to have some of her steak and I just simply said no thanks."
Very good! Proud of you!
"she instantly got ticked off. She became very upset and told me I would get the papers in the mail. She also aid that my attention span was about 5 seconds long and I am still trying to figure that one out."
OK, I"ll tell you what this is about. She is trying to pull her leverage. See she's OK with leaving you and then asking you to rub her back and get her milk.
You showed her that you have self-respect and that you are busy and OK without her. She is getting angry and threatening with divorce to try and rattle you to get you to be scared of losing her and therefore do anything for her (like stay whenever she says)
What you need to do is just keep doing what you're doing. Don't let her scare you into doing stuff for her with her threats.
Think about it. Does it sound at all remotely appropriate for someone to invite someone for dinner on the spot, and when they say thanks but I have other plans already, that they get angry at them and threaten them with something?
You've got to put it into that context to see it as anyone else would have seen that scenario.
I really don't think she will send the papers. Just don't chase her; you did NOTHING wrong. If you go dark and don't contact you, I bet she will realize from the silence that it was pretty irrational what she did, and she will call you, just like she did last time she threatened the papers.
Tink
"She called me up to come over and fix her garbage disposal which was not working. Since I was still in the area I went over and fixed it."
OK I don't care if you happened to be next door at a BBQ, stop doing things for her.
Really, continue going dark. Don't you see how back and forth she is?
If you are going to send papers to your spouse, you don't ask them to rub your back...you don't invite them for dinner...heck, you don't get angry and threaten them when they politely decline.
I really don't expect to see the papers. At this point, don't answer or return her calls.
And the next time she asks you to come over and hold her, or bring her something or fix something, etc. Just say no.
Say you are either in or out. You know I wanted and am willing to work on the marriage, but you clearly don't. I'm not going to give you back-rubs and come over to help you out, or allow you to fix my computer. We are either committed to working on the marriage, or we are not. I'm not playing this game anymore.
Tink
Hi one more thought before I sign off for the night...
Just buy her announcing that she's getting the papers done everytime she gets angry shows that she knows that her behavior is saying that maybe there is a chance she won't.
Otherwise why would she have to announce it if it's a done deal?
Tink
I am not totally sure that she is getting the papers but I will assume that she has since she wanted to come agreements on custody and the such. If this is the case how do I respond? I slipped up and told her that the divorce is not the answer to our problems and no matter how bad the relationship is it can be fixed, don't know if I should have said that. As I was leaving this is the first time I have seen her show any emotion as she started to cry and gave me a hug.
I called her in the evening to make sure she was doing ok and asked if this is really what she wants and her response to that was I think so. Hopefully I am sensing some doubt in her and that maybe she doesn't want to get the divorce, but I am not going to get my hopes up.
How do I act if she is pursuing the D? Do I try to convince her that it is not the right thing to do or what? Sure wish my books would get here, which I ordered a month ago!!
Jonzy, man slow down and breathe. It will be okay one way or the other. Tink has been giving you great advice, listen she is making sense. You have to quit assuming things and trying to read her mind. You like most of us men are fixers it's in our nature, but you can't fix it this has been the hardest thing for me also to learn it's a rollercoaster. With a WAS you believe almost nothing they say and 50% of their actions, as we all know actions speak louder than words.
Like Tink said go dark if it will help you detach and get yourself into a better space right now as most WAS do she is baiting you and you are biting. Quit being so available this was a hard one for me also cause again we are fixers. IMO you are still persuing her by asking her if this is still what she wants.
How do you act? "act as if", let this stuff roll of your ducks back. I'm not trying to be a jerk as I am still learning also but you are at a point to watch and wait. Detach detach if she goes to a lawyer there is nothing you can do about it, if she files there is nothing you can do about that either except validate her and listen, say something like I understand you want a divorce, though it's not what I want I won't stop you and leave it at that just cause she wants it doesn't mean you have to help her, walk away from it if you will let the conversation go at that.
If she has spoken to a lawyer, there is nothing wrong with you getting legal advice also, you have to cover yourself in this not too be mean to her but just to know where you stand, with things and what is expected of you for your son. Agree to nothing that you feel compromises yourself or your son ask a lawyer please get this knowledge.
Keep working on yourself and making the changes for you to become the man/person that you want to be, take each day as it comes get out and do things take care of your son. She has to do this on her own it's tough bro we are all learning, read the books they help set goals for yourself find an inner peace.
Don't take what I have said as being a jerk, I did not mean it to be that way, read other post learn from the wiser people on these boards and then apply what you can to your sitch and and continue with what changes you need to make.
Peace be in your heart
I appreciate the reply racefan, and you did not come off as a jerk. I just want to get as much input as I can to apply to my sitch. And I do admit I need to do a better job of going dark and make myself more unavailable to her. Although I did alright today since she has relatives in town, she asked me to come eat pizza with them. And I politely told her that I did not want to because I have to go get ready for work.
Today has been one of those days where I just sit here and cry while I try to do my homework. When I dropped my son off to her we talked for a second and I got teary eyed when we were talking. I told her I had to go and she says don't be sad and I am sorry. When I got in the car I drove off and just broke down so bad that I had to pull over. I am such a wreck but going to work out for an hour before I go to work.
Hi I am wondering what her reason is for moving out and for getting the D?
Forgive me if you told me already, what is it that was her reason? Were you fighting a lot? What had been happening the months before her announcement, and how did she go about telling you?
Jonzy,
I see a woman who married young, has two children, a husband in school and working at night. I see a woman who began to wonder if this was how it was always going to be. I see a woman who felt like the romance was gone, that her husband had begun settling into the security of the marriage always being there. And I think eventually she decided that she didn't want things to stay that way.
You said yourself in one of your earlier posts that you realize NOW that her nagging was not nagging, but instead a plea to you that things needed to change.
I'm not sure what the living arrangements are. Do you own a house? Who lives in what was your house together? Who has the kids overnight? What arrangements do you have for seeing the kids if you're not currently the custodial parent?
One additional question, not important, just curious. You have a 15 year old daughter, yet your signature block says you've been together for only 12 years?
Anyway, on to my take.
I think Tink perhaps hit the nail on the head early on when she suggested that your wife really wants you to win her back. I think she wants courted again. And maybe that's too specific, because she may not be sure right now that she wants YOU to court her, but I do think that she wants to be romanced again by someone.
The condoms bother me and cause me to wonder if she's considering pursuing others. Though I should mention that one of the worst things you can do for the two of you right now is to accuse her of something that you have no solid proof for. THAT one didn't win you any points.
I'm not really sure about the going dark approach. Let me say that IF, and I repeat IF, she IS involving herself with other men, then I absolutely think going dark is the correct route.
If you don't know that for sure, I might be inclined to take a different approach.
Is it possible for YOU to take on the role of friend?
Can you think back to when the two of you met for the first time. At some point there was chemistry, yes. But before that, there was friendship. I think maybe THAT is the place to start.
Seems to me that when you become aloof and hurry away that this bothers her. To me that supports the notion that she wants you to WANT her. To be with her. To help her. To do things with her. To accept her help.
Divorce busting is a bit of a misnomer if you've read either of the books. While the techniques in the book are designed to improve interactions between you and your spouse, much of the philosophy behind the books is centered on YOU taking stock of you. It involves you identifying how YOU have changed, for the worse, and taking steps to fix those things. Remember your observation that her "nagging" was an effort to get you to change? Take that revelation and begin making those changes.
Don't be frightened by the divorce talk. It's quite common in these situations for the walk away spouse to threaten divorce action anytime they are angry with you. Give it a day or two and it will usually blow over. In the meantime, focus on yourself, continue working on YOUR issues, and be open to opportunities to show your unconditional love to her.
Don't tell her you love her.
Don't tell her how much you want the marriage to work.
Don't tell her how much she means to you.
SHOW HER all these things through your actions.
Remember, they speak much louder than words.
This is doable. This relationship can be saved. You have to focus and not allow yourself to be rattled in her presence. You have to control yourself and not collapse into a weeping mess. You have to believe that the two of you belong together.
Unconditional love is love that we SHOW through our actions, not caring WHAT we receive in return. If she's really searching and angry right now, chances are that many of your attempts at love and kindness will NOT get the positive result you hope for. It's very important to tell yourself over and over again that your unconditional love for this woman comes with NO EXPECTATIONS.
There's always the fear of being a doormat, but I don't see that being a problem just yet. You can deal with that later if it becomes an issue.
Just my thoughts Jonzy. Sorry more people haven't been by to help. Thank goodness for Tink, eh?
Blessings,
Bill
jonzy good for you keep your answers simple and civil nothing more than that it's okay to turn down some invitations, but try and be a little more evasive with your answer try just saying no thanks I have plans already, let the WAS wonder some not to be mean to them but to show alittle mystery or intrigue.
You have to be strong man I know it's tough not to well up when you are hurting we all have a hard time with it, but you can't show that side of yourself to her, if you can't do it for yourself do it for your kids wait until you get in the car or go outside go anywhere just don't do it in front of W. Ask yourself would you want to be around someone who is tearing up all the time? I think you would answer no, be the man she fell in love with show her what she is missing ya feel what I'm saying?
It's a tough road and a H**LL of a rollercoaster ride. You have chosen to honor your vows and comittment to your marriage you have told her this don't tell her again she knows, now work on you make the changes you need to make to be better than you were. In the end however it may workout you will be better person for your W or heaven forbid someone else.
Noone is here to beat you up or put you down, the whole key is that YOU are the one right now that wants to save this marriage I give you kudos on that and so it has to be up to you to make the changes right now. You can do it you sound like a good man and father. Your kids need you the most right now and that too should be your focus, as I said before your W has to walk this path right now and we all hope in the end they come out of the fog and then help in rebuilding a new and better marriage.
Read the books when you get them and then reread them, don't tell W you have them they are for you and you only!!! They are a game plan for you to map out your course and to set your goals. As hard as it is try and not dwell on your sitch it will only drain you from your course of action. Work on your PMA go out with friends, do things with your kids, GAL it all helps to stay solution focused.
I know this all seems out of kilter, to do something totally opposite of what you think, but when you persue, beg, cry that only drives the WAS further away and gives them justification for what they are doing, think about it did doing all that stuff help? We all do it to a point but once you get a handle on detaching with love it comes easier, let what they say roll off your ducks back, they are just words yet I know they still hurt the same.
You may want to post over in Newcomers, there is alot more activity and might get some more feedback there.
Keep up the good work you are doing, you can do it be strong, vent here on these boards read and learn there are alot of people here that can help, you are in a good place.
Peace be in your heart
Well lets start this off by answering tink. I moved out of the house and she stayed with the kids. Basically I was given the choice of I move out or she does. Well with the house payment and utilities there was no way I could afford that working part time. Also I did not want to uproot the kids because they love the house and the area. As for the reasoning behind all this is because I became so distant in the relationship and as bworl stated I became secure that the marriage would always be there. I became lazy and would procrastinate alot on things around the house and would wait on the bills.
As for the fighting bit, we really never fought alot. We would have our arguments here and there but never really worked them out. If it was something major and we hurt each other verbally we would say our sorries and then sweep it under the rug. And the way she told me that she wanted the D was in the car ride home from seeing my friend. She asked if I wanted a divorce and to which I replied no of course and then nothing was said again until that friday. We went out to TGI Fridays(hate that place now!!) because we were not talking and you could cut the tension between us with a knife. She then told me that she wanted a divorce.
Now to bworl my wife keeps the kid at nights. Me working nights was only because it worked with my school schedule and when I started school my son was not yet in Kindergarden so I was a stay home dad, went to school in the evenings, and then work at nights. I graduate in February so I don't have much longer.
As for me having a 15D she is actually my step-daughter from my wifes previous marriage but I consider her mine since I have been around her since she was 2.
As for going dark I kind of want to but in the same manner I want to be her friend. That is what I want to do right now is start over with a friendship and work from there. But I dont want to seem pushy or smother her, I want to ask her to maybe do a movie, as friends, and then maybe go from there. Any thoughts as how I should approach this?
And for the whole cheating part I think that was me just being paranoid(I hope) because she pleaded with me that she would never do that. My wife is a horrible liar and %99 of the time when she is lying she becomes really defensive and will not make eye contact. This time she told me to look in her eyes and she calmly told me there was no one else.
Racefan you are absolutely right that it is a heck of a rollercoaster. And my goal here is to become the person she fell in love with 12 years ago. I know I can do it and I am willing to do whatever it takes to get there because I am not happy at all with the person I have become. I already see some changes happening in the way my attitude is coming along and I have to take it one change at a time because my list is long and I add to it daily it seems.
Thank you very much for being here. You guys are the best and it really helps me "talking" on here and learning from all of you. Now I wish they would finally send my books, it has been a month and they shipped out on the 12th...hmmmm. And as always tink TY for being my lifeline!!!
Sorry it wouldn't let me edit but meant to say you guys and gals!! sorry tink
Thank you for all the kudos, I'm glad I could help.
Great advice from Bworl and Racefan.
One more question about how things started, just to get clearer:
"We went out to TGI Fridays(hate that place now!!) because we were not talking"
What were you not talking about?
To what Bworl and Jonzy are referring, becoming a friend, that's what we started out doing, as Jonzy asked her to a movie. Things seemed to be heading that way until:
1. he came over to find out she had not slept home
2.but at a strange man's house with some of her girl friends
3. condoms fell out of her bag
4. she announced she was going to file the papers
From there, we've been going dark. The messages from thereon have been very mixed.
1. she asks for his help fixing things
2. she asks for physical touch
3. she asks him to stay for dinner
4. to go eat pizza with her and her relatives who are in town
1. she becomes furious when he politely declines
2. she threatens divorce when he politely declines (which, btw is the reason I think this last time, Jonzy said the excuse about having to go to work instead of just saying no, to avoid her wrath)
3. she tells him that she has met with a lawyer and is preparing papers.
4. the previous stuff about spending the night out
This is kind of a curveball; how does he continue on the path of friendship with someone who will treat him this way when he politely declines?
I am thinking, Jonzy, maybe the best thing to do, is to calmly ask in your own words something like,
1. "I'm not understanding, why did you ask me to dinner with your relatives if you are meeting with a lawyer and preparing divorce papers to serve me?"
You need to be in a calm place so that if her emotions are volatile you can remain calm and detached, kind of like when a little child is upset, you don't get upset right? You just calmly explain how things are or calmly ask them a question.
Listen to her answer and respond from her answer. If it is appropriate, something else you can possibly say is:
2. "I thought from your acceptance of my offer of a date next week, we were starting over. But then you told me you saw a lawyer and were preparing the divorce papers, so I figured you changed your mind. But now I'm being invited to dinner with you and your relatives; help me understand why?"
If she is honest and talks about her going back and forth feelings, then maybe you can get somewhere.
But if she says something like, oh I just thought we can still be friends and there's no reason we can't rub each other's backs/invite each other to see the relatives, etc. then say
3. "OK that is fine, we can just be friends. I just have one more question: why when you invited me to stay for dinner the other day and I politely declined you became angry and announced that you will be preparing the divorce papers?"
I would listen very carefully to this answer.
Remember just stay calm and you have every right to politely say you have to go and do not let her emotions or threats rattle you, at least in front of her.
Tink
Hey jonzy just checking in on you, hope things are going well today. Keep up the good work on yourself, will check in on you later.
Peace be in your heart
First off, let me clarify.
Being her friend does not mean asking her out on a date.
At least not yet.
Think about it, and maybe you're different than I was, but asking out on a date only happened after some friendly groundwork had been laid.
You need to try to get inside her mind and understand where it is that she is coming from. If she wants her heart to be won all over again, you're at square one.
At this point, I'd let her do the asking.
Being a friend means that you are available if she calls. If she asks for help, you provide it. If she initiates a conversation, you participate.
Her agreeing to a date unfortunately did NOT mean you were starting over. What you have to remember here is, if she didn't say it directly you can't assume it. No assumptions and no expectations. Anything else will frustrate and disappoint you.
If she doesn't call, don't call her. Don't talk about the relationship, either about YOUR expectations or HERS. In her mind the past is now a bad thing, regardless of whether it really was or not. And telling her you want your marriage back could possibly be a frightening thing to her, because SHE DOES NOT! She might be convinced to take on a "new" marriage where the two of you have made changes, but she has no interest in what you had before.
Don't overcomplicate this. And whatever you do, this is NOT a time to indulge your need for validation, approval, or love. You're on the outs, whether you deserve it or not.
Read this letter. I think it explains better what I'm trying to suggest to you Jonzy.
A friend to my wife Blessings,
Bill
I think what I am going to do for a while is just kind of go dark. If she needs help with anything I will make her work for it meaning I will get to it when I want to not when she does. I will no longer initiate any sort of contact except for the brief contact we have when I pick up my son. Does this make any sense? Or any suggestions on any tweaks you would make to this theory?
Hi Jonzy,
Yes I think this makes sense. She needs to be "trained" (if you will) to treat you nicely even when you say no in a nice way, as you have.
I think you need to pull back so that she starts appreciating when you do say yes by handling no's more gracefully.
I'm going away for a few days so hopefully Bworl and/or Racefan will be around. If you find you need feedback, re-read our posts and/or start a new thread.
You are doing FANTASTIC! You are thinking of the big picture and long-run, and you are working from the present.
Best Wishes,
Tink
Did you read the letter? If so, what did you think of it?
It sounds to me like your plan is to have HER pursue YOU.
I'll grant you that some situations seem made for that kind of approach, but I'm not so sure that yours does.
Tell me if my take on what happened between the two of you rings true or false. Maybe my gut is reading this wrong.
Things were good at the beginning. As the years went by, and another child came along, then school and work crept in, next thing you know, Mr. and Mrs. Jonzy aren't much of a couple any more.
They get in the habit of kind of doing their own thing. Mrs. Jonzy has the kids every night while Mr. Jonzy is working. Between school and work, Jonzy doesn't get to pay the Mrs. much attention.
The spark begins to fade. There are arguments, supposedly about something tangible, but really about the distance that is slowly growing between the two of you. No one ever really acknowledges that a real problem is beginning to unfold between the two of you in terms of your marriage relationship. Without realizing it, everyone is getting your time except each other.
Mrs. Jonzy begins to wonder what happened to the dream of happily ever after. As a typical man (just like me) Jonzy figures we have a home, we have enough money, we have the kids, we get along ok, what's the problem?
Next thing you know we're at Friday's and Mrs. Jonzy has finally reached the point where she willing to say that she doesn't want what the two of you have anymore.
Is that anywhere close Jonzy?
Let me know. Honestly, if I'm way off base, that's fine. But it does affect my advice to you. Because right now, I think your plan is not really a good one.
Let me know.
Blessings,
Bill
You pretty much hit the nail on the head bworl! As time went on we really never had a whole lot of time with each other. She began to go out with her friends alot and thinking I would be the good husband I thought let her go with her friends for time away, not realizing we barely spent any time together the way it was.
Oops hit the wrong button:) I was going to say also as time went on she began working more and more and also picked up playing volleyball every tues, thurs, and saturdays! I thought that is great she is working out. But in the end it was because we were slowly drifting apart.
Tink enjoy your time away, you deserve it after all our sessions:)
Jonzy,
She started the other activities because she was missing something.
That something used to be you two together.
Life is tough that way, tends to occupy our energies to the point that we lose sight of the important things.
Look, given this, I tend to feel a bit more strongly that your wife wants to know if you are still the same guy she fell in love with and married. Because chances are you haven't been for some time. Which is not to say of course that she hasn't changed too.
I think she also wants to know if you're still willing to do the hard work of loving her. Yeah, I said hard work.
Do you remember the stuff we used to do for the women we were sweet on when we were younger. We'd change our schedules, spend money we couldn't afford, do all the crazy things like writing poems and buying mushy cards. All to show that woman how much we were in love with them.
You go dark on her now, you start being stingy with your help and availability, you are sending her precisely the message that she fears she will get. That you are no longer that guy who would try to move the world for her. That you no longer are so committed to your love and passion for her that you would do ANYTHING to prove it to her.
Now I'm not suggesting that you start writing love poems. But I do think you need to begin courting your wife, slowly but surely.
Be there for her. Be her friend, her very best friend. Care about what bothers her and what excites her, and more importantly SHOW her that you care through how you interact with her.
Do not pursue. Don't become a gushing "You know I love you with every breath of my being!" doorknob. You have to start small. The big stuff looks fake and like it won't last when she hasn't seen it in a long time.
That's why I say COURT her.
My two cents worth.
Blessings,
Bill
So should I go dark and let her make the initial contact? Or should I be the one that initiates it by maybe asking her to do something like meet for a drink at Starbucks?
I wouldn't be trying to make dates just yet.
I would check in with her each day. See how she is. See if she needs anything.
When she calls, answer and talk to her.
Do me a favor.
Go read ndsmhlp's thread in Newcomers. Read what his THOUGHTS are about how to treat his wife.
If you can emulate that in any way, you'll be on your way.
Be the man that loves her. More than he loves himself, or anything else.
Bill
The thing that bothers me about this approach is that she wants her space, wouldn't this be intruding on her space? Believe me I would love to talk to her everyday but I don't want her to feel smothered.
Don't you see her each day anyway?
You don't have to CALL her per se. I just meant that it wouldn't hurt to show interest in her that is not "I love you, I want to fix our marriage."
Trust your instincts.
Bill
Almost everyday! I did not have my son today but I did call and asked to speak with him. Then I briefly talked to her and asked how her day was. Talked to her for about a total of a minute. Do you think that I should keep all contact very brief and upbeat, or maybe get a little more involved with what she has been up to? I need my books ASAP...finally got confirmation that they are re-sending them!
Be YOU.
No shows.
But do try to be positive and happy with your life. Of course it helps if you are doing things to BE happy with your life.
And if "being you" means relationship talk, disregard my first line. No relationship talks. None.
If she brings one up, answer honestly, offer up nothing of your own, don't judge her comments, and end it as soon as possible.
jonzy man how are you doing? You sound good today, I hope you are beginning to work on yourself. I think Bworl hit it dead on, it's pretty much the MO of a WAS. We men are kinda dense, we think as long as there is no major issues and things seem to be going fine just like Bworl described we are pretty much happy and feel we are doing it right, WHAM!
If I changed yours and mine screen names around OMG! You've been married 8 me 8.5 both together 12yrs the oldest is hers the youngest both of yours it's like looking in a mirror at my own reflection.
Now is not the time to persue. Now is the time to work on you and the kids. Like I said last night the old marriage is dead she is not into you just as my W is not into me. It's up to you to make the changes and let her notice, become the man you need to be.
Going dark is a strong thing you must do it right if that's what you choose to do. Going dark means no contact from you and if you have to make sure it is only about the kids, finance, just the basics. It doesn't mean be a jerk or rude to your W, but be less available it is a time to work on you and get some goals set in place for yourself, get solution focused become detached but in a loving manner it's a fine line to walk read up on LRT in the book, the books are invaluable, like I said last night they are for YOU and YOU only don't tell wife about them or that you are on these boards, this things are all for you, to vent ask questions and to learn.
There are alot of good and wise people throughout these boards listen to what they say they can HELP! If you can afford it get some coaching lessons, they are a bit pricy but from what I have read they help you get a game plan set in place and teach you how to carry it out.
Remember:
1. stop the ILY
2. don't persue
3. no R talks let WAS start them
there is a entire list of things to remember, I will try and find it for you and post it it has ALOT of good things to keep in mind as you ride this rollercoaster of H*LL.
Remember to breathe, go slow, work on yourself, spend time with your kiddo's, you CAN do this IMHO this can be saved, you have some positives working in your favor above all be PATIENT!
I will check back later...
Peace be in your heart
Brian
No more relationship talks for me, that is a promise I made to myself! I am working on my overall attitude and trying to stay upbeat as much as possible. Whenever I get down I try to go for a walk or run. Today was the first day I have ever voluntarily ran in about 17 years, still trying to figure out if that was a mistake or not but my legs say yes
Today was a great day for me. Even though I did not get to see my son and only talked to my wife for a minute it all felt good! Had alot of time for myself and got to think of how I need to accomplish all the goals I have set for myself. It is a long list but I am on it like stink on s@#t!
When I feel comfortable enough giving my own advice I will stop by and hopefully be able to give you all some good advice! Thank you all for the input!
Well folks looks like this is the end of the M for me. She brought over some paperwork today to go over and try to agree on some stuff. I didn't think that this would ever happen but it is in full steam ahead now. Arrrgh this sucks, I am so weak and started crying when we started on the paperwork.
Let the drinking begin!! Thanks for all of the advice!
Jonzy,
I only read your first and last post but I wanted to chime in. It is still early in your DBing and in the process. They are just papers. Divorces take at least six months so use this time to keep on DBing. There are several people here who are in the midst of a D or even already D'ed. I was a WAW and I came back after 9months of being absolutely sure I no longer wanted to be married. Hang in there! Best of luck.
jonzy... WHOA!!!! Slow down man! Like HOPEFUL said it over YET, I don't hear any fat lady singing. She is speaking the truth, there are people all over these boards some are even just days away from their D's being final and they are still doing what they need to do.
Only you know when it's over in your heart, if that's your choice then so be it then you hold your head high, but I don't think that's what you want to do IMHO. As HOPEFUL said there is plenty of time to keep working on yourself.
Read the books man, they have a host of info that can point you in the direction. My W was sure that's what she wanted to do went to the lawyers I went to mine she moved out 2 weeks ago and she hasn't done anything more since then who knows what she is going to do, certainly not me, but I am getting to the point of knowing I will be okay without her. Sure it's scary it's the last thing any of us want, which all the more reason to detach, work on yourself, spend time with your kids, go out with friends become the man she fell in love with.
WAS have no direction they are running on anger and resentment, they are as lost if not more than the LBS. You haven't been at this very long Dbing is all about making yourself a better person,not so much for the WAS but for you so that you can know there is a future with or without them and becoming atractive to the WAS to make themselves start to question their decisions this has to be your focus YOURSELF.
Slow down take some time to let what has happened sink in, use the 48 hour rule, don't make a decision based on emotion. As I said in the end it is your decision and as long as you can respect yourself and feel you have done everything that you possibly could do then so be it but ask yourself that question, HAVE I DONE EVERYTHING???
I will check in on you tomorrow and see how you are doing it's going to be okay. I will see if I can get some more people over here to help.
Peace be in your heart
Brian
Hey everyone just checking in. Decided not to drink and instead went out to dinner and then for some ice cream. Decided to take a drive around the valley and just lose myself for a little bit. Wife called me at 11 pm and at 2:30 am..wtf! I never answered any of them just wanted to have some alone time. She then calls me twice today and instead of answering her I texted her back and asked if everything was ok. She then calls again and asks if I can watch my son while she gets some shopping done. Of course I agreed because I jump at any opprotunity I get with my son.
And HiC you are correct the fat lady has not begin to sing yet. Hopefully I have enough time to help myself and my wife will have time to reflect upon herself and open her eyes to my sincerity.
Have to finish writing a 12 page paper on online predators. Due in 2 weeks and I have only 5 pages written :0 Hope you all had a good day today!!
jonzy, didn't forget you, busy day today D11 had a soccer tournament.
"Hey everyone just checking in. Decided not to drink and instead went out to dinner and then for some ice cream. Decided to take a drive around the valley and just lose myself for a little bit. Wife called me at 11 pm and at 2:30 am..wtf! I never answered any of them just wanted to have some alone time. She then calls me twice today and instead of answering her I texted her back and asked if everything was ok. She then calls again and asks if I can watch my son while she gets some shopping done. Of course I agreed because I jump at any opprotunity I get with my son."
YES good job. Find yourself EXACTLY work on you that's the key.
IMO you raised some couriousity in W for whatever the reason you were less available your getting it. Detachment is the key. Don't be mean don't be rude it's about letting her know that you have more going on in YOUR life.
Work on that report, GAL, spend time with the kiddos, work on YOU!
Will check you latter man. Good positives going on keep it up.
Peace be in your heart
I hate telling my son goodbye everyday when I should be the one to tell him goodnight every night. I hate being a part time dad
Seems like all I do is cry, but have gotten better by not doing it in front of him.
Tonight pissed me off because I have the paper to write but my wife calls. She asks me if I would watch my son while she goes and buys a kitchen table and some other odds and ends. I say no problem she said she would be home around 9 or 9:30. Well 10:00 rolls around and she says that they are going to stop and get something to eat. Pisses me off that this is her weekend with him and she pulls this crap!!
I understand she doesn't want to be with me right now but don't take advantage of me! If it wasn't for my son I would have said no.
FOrgot to finish that up by saying that she finally got to my house a little after 11!
racefan hope your daughter did well today, did she win? I am going to get my son in swim lessons and t-ball which will be awesome!!
Take care all and talk to ya soon!
jonzy...
Can totally relate, since W left I HATE being a phone dad to D11.
WAS's have no concept on their selfishness and what it does to everyone elses lives. But don't go down that cheeseless tunnel, not worth your time. When it comes to being available for the kids all else goes out the window.
In these types of situations document it if you can, write it down in a journal you have to CYA yourself if it comes to the worst this will help you in the eyes of the law. It's not being mean to W, it is looking out for what is best for your kids!
You really need to take a different frame of mind right now, not one of husband but as father, don't tell her you are doing this just do it please. Think of the kids and what is best for them nothing more nothing less.
Continue to work on yourself, have you gotten the books yet? If so read them and reread them, then you will get an understanding.
Stay calm, breathe, detach, work on yourself, be the man you need to be your doing okay. Get the crying under control, you can't show this side of yourself like I told you before, go somewhere else, go for a drive, go outside, go for a walk whatever it takes to not show it in front of W or kids.
You're doing okay stay the path brother...
Peace be in your heart
Brian
Hey racefan I read in one of your other posts somewhere that you said you were from Nebraska? Is this correct? I am from Nebraska and we have been living in AZ for the last 6 years.
Today was the most amazing day ever! I woke up to the phone ringing and it was my wife. I didn't answer but when I finally came to I am like great here we go again, another day of misery.
So I go hop in the shower and do the normal routine where I start to think about my wife and what not. So I am sitting in front of the mirror shaving and just lost it. I looked at the person in the mirror and didn't like what I saw. I told myself that I am a better person and I am not going to let this misery take control of my life! I am a better person than this and enough is enough. So I finished shaving got on the phone and called some buddies and made a bunch of plans.
This saturday we are going to watch some bands play and have a guys night out. We then scheduled a trip to San Diego for my birthday which is over the 4th of July weekend. And the great thing is I stood up to my wife. She asked if I would be able to watch my son on saturday because she had plans. Sorry missy but I am going out, didn't really say that but I wanted to
So she asked me where I was going but just said its a guys night out.
For some reason everything just dawned on me that ya my world came crashing down but it is not the end of the world. If my wife doesn't want to be with me there is nothing I can do to change her mind only show her what she is going to miss out on
I have decided on a new attitude, DGAF which means Don't Give A F#$k!! Not saying I don't care or love my wife but I am just tired of feeling miserable and am not going to do it, I will have my moments but no one will see them.
Hope you all had a good weekend talk to ya soon!!
Ted
Hi Jonzy,
Hope you are well.
Tink
Hey tink welcome back. Hope you had a good few days off!!
Hi, I did thanks.
I kind of feel that right now you are walking on a fence. To romance but not pursue; to go dark yet be her friend.
I'm a little psychic sometimes and I'm getting an image. Tell me if it has anything to do with you; the woman has short light brown hair with bangs. Kind of looks like a bowl cut.
Anyway, I don't know about your W's hair but the feeling I'm getting is that she is definitely still open to things working out through communication.
Tink
LOL way off on the hair thing but whatever. With me going semi-dark, meaning I do not initiate the contact unless it has to do with the kids, or I do not answer all of her calls she gets mad. Like this morning she called and said that I might want to start answering my phone in case daycare were to call about my son, duh that is what caller ID is for
And she continued on about it and I said ok and she responded with a nasty thanks and hung up! I can see that it bothers her but just hope that it is not the wrong signal.
Everytime I see her now I am always as upbeat as possible. The other day I had to drop off my sons lunchbox and I was all giddy and went in and was saying hi to everyone and the such. She again offered me to sit down and eat before I went to work. Sometimes I wish I could read her mind and figure what she has going on upstairs!
jonzy....
Haven't forgotten about ya bro, just kinda had my plate full and haven't been real positive...
Will stop back later tonight and post. I have been reading and have some thoughts just busy right now, will also answer you on my thread thanks for stoppin in
Brian
You just make sure you stay positive!! Keep your chin up buddy and we will get through this together! You do your stuff first and you can post here when you feel up to it! Take care
Ted
Hi Jonzy,
I'm kind of at a loss myself. On the one hand, it sure seems like she wants you to court her. After all she accepted the date and keeps asking you to stay and eat, etc.
On the other hand she gets nasty whenever you say no or don't pick up the phone.
I suppose they are both consistent. She's getting nasty when you say no because she's taking it as a rejection.
But what are you supposed to do? Let her control you so you're afraid to say the wrong this for fear she'll divorce you?
Has she brought up the date that was supposed to take place last weekend?
Tink
The key to no contact is to make it look like you're getting on with your life.
Just refusing to answer the phone because you're not wanting to answer her calls, especially if she gets that impression, just leads to pissing her off.
You've been upbeat around her, that's good. And probably why she asks you to stay for dinner.
No contact is not a punishment on her. It's an opportunity for you to unplug from the drama that keeps you messed up inside. If you're not answering your phone, have a good reason why. Don't sell this as though "I'm cutting you off!" Sell it as "Sorry darling, I was out with Larry and Mo doing a little golfing and didn't realize you had called." When you do speak to her, you should be upbeat and positive, kind and friendly. No realtionship talks, no questions about you and her and your marriage.
Get it?
Blessings,
Bill
No she has not brought up the date that was supposed to happen.
She does have me very confused. It seems that when I am trying to be the "new and improved" version of me she responds very nicely as one would imagine. And then the next minute she is asking me to go over the details of the divorce
As for her trying to control me I try not to let that happen anymore. I have been saying n quite a bit now, but have come to accept the fact that she might divorce me either way. I am coming to terms with this and as I stated before there is nothing I can do to change her mind or feelings I can only show her what she is going to miss out on.
Tink did you go on a mini vacation?
Got it Bill!
As for me not answering I usually am doing something like either working out or am out to eat with some friends and she even called when I was at the pool with my son, and my time with him is far more valuable than an argument or whatever may happen. So I am trying to do stuff it is just not as easy to go out with friends during the week cause they have "normal" jobs and I am stuck at nights for the time being.
No she has not brought up the date that was supposed to happen.
She does have me very confused. It seems that when I am trying to be the "new and improved" version of me she responds very nicely as one would imagine. And then the next minute she is asking me to go over the details of the divorce
As for her trying to control me I try not to let that happen anymore. I have been saying n quite a bit now, but have come to accept the fact that she might divorce me either way. I am coming to terms with this and as I stated before there is nothing I can do to change her mind or feelings I can only show her what she is going to miss out on.
Yes I think the best thing is for you to not answer the phone when you need to, and if she says anything just say, oh sorry I was [whereever in a general way] without explaining too much.
And if she gets angry and threatens divorce just stay calm and say, look if you want to get divorced that's fine, but don't threaten me everytime you get upset. Why don't you explain to me what is going on that is getting you so upset right now?
Tink did you go on a mini vacation?
I spent the weekend at my fiance's. He lives in the next state. I took last weekend off for myself because I was getting very annoyed with him and I realized it was coming from my fear of us moving up to our new level, plus I was spreading myself thin working five jobs. The weekend did us both good and I appreciated how much he missed me and the attention was great.
Tink
That is awesome tink and ya you could say you were spreading yourself this with 5 jobs!!! I am glad you had a decent weekend with the fiance!!
OK so here is the conversation I had with my wife today. I dropped my son off and was making small talk with my wife and exchanging jokes. She begins to make comments on how she likes my new shoes?, how she likes my new haircut, and my new shorts, well none of them are new as she has seen them all before but anyways I thanked her and told her she looked nice as well. So as we were talking she brings up the whole me not answering my phone last night at 1 am. I explained that I forgot it at home when I left for work,which I did. So I then asked her if it was my SD that called or if it was her. She told me that it was her and that she wanted to get a little. I never responded to that.
Fast forward to tonight while I was at work and she calls again. She asked if I thought about what she said. I said yes I have thought about it but never gave an answer. So she then asks what time I will get off work tonight and I told her that I will be working late. So then she asks if I would accept a raincheck and she would call tomorrow.
What do I say, mind you it has been a while for me!! I am not getting my hopes up that this may be a sign or anything but women have their needs and so do I. It is hard for me to say no to a beautiful woman but should I accept or what?
Hi DON'T DO IT.
Because if she's not committed to making the marriage work, then she's using you for sex and then you will feel used when she hands you divorce papers.
I strongly suggest you communicate with her. Look back there was a post I suggested three things to say,...
Something like, listen, you've been giving me a lot of mixed signals. One day you ask me to lie down with you or stay and eat with you or rub your back or visit with your out-of-town relatives, and now this. And then you tell me you've seen a lawyer and are preparing divorce papers. Then when I politely decline dinner or miss your call you get angry.
Why don't you tell me what's going on inside you?
And then just really listen.
Tell her look, I don't want the marriage we had either. But if you'd like to work on a new and improved marriage let me know. But if you want to get divorced and just have me for companionship off and on, I'm sorry, I can't do that. I want more.
Then give her a passionate kiss and take off. Let her think about that for a while.
Tink
jonzy, sorry man just kinda been floating....been in my own 'fog' for a few days.
"She told me that it was her and that she wanted to get a little. I never responded to that."
This is always a TOUGH sitch, to be a 'booty call' or not to be a 'booty call' some would say if you realize that's all it would be well then why not? Depends on where you are at. IMHO I think Tink is spot on DON'T! Your sitch is to upside down, with her being in and then out of it. Stay status quo semi-dark. I would say something like, I would like that also but I am just not in a place where I can deal with that right now, or that would be nice but I don't want to give you the wrong impression that it's okay... use your own words I think you will know what to say.
No this is no sign right now she doesn't know what she wants, that is part of the rollercoaster my friend don't buy a ticket. It's a cheeseless tunnel you have a right to your feelings and right now they have to come first IMO it will just hurt you more.
Stay the path keep working on yourself, you have some good GAL plans going on that's great. She is noticing things stay the strong man that you are becoming she will flip flop back and forth so expect it and be ready in your mind how to handle it stay sharp you have to be on your game, don't let her suck you into the drama.
You have been getting some good advice from the others follow it fit it into your sitch and use it to your advantage. Be nice to her care as a friend would. Remember it's not about being mean to her it's about helping yourself to be better, don't do things out of bitterness take the higher road. You are starting to detach some and that is the key, don't 'react' but 'act' of your own accord don't let her bait you into a response that will fuel her reasoning.
By the way I live in Lincoln, so howdy old neighbor.
Stay the path, work on you, remember at this point you're a father and a friend unfortunately not a husband ya feel me?
Brian
Do you all think that saying things like "you are sending mixed signals" is OK? I've posted on my sitch, but I'm really looking for advice. It would be good for Jonzy to know, too, because it really does look like your W is "testing the waters" to see how you will react.
Is it "more of the same" for you to complain about her sending mixed signals? I would think if it is normal of the old you to do that, then perhaps avoid that conversation and "act as if"
The point is to avoid starting any R talks, let the WAS do that.
Learn to validate and say "Iunderstand why you... or "I can see why that made you feel that way..." yes act "as if"
If a R talk is started by them and it gets uncomfortable then learn to say "right now I prefer not to answer" or "let me get back to you.." don't let them bait you into something you won"t be able to get out of with validating.. it's okay to walk away if it is leading down a cheeseless tunnel...
At least be able to say something that won't be confrontational and that can give you time to think before just reacting.
Brian
Do you all think that saying things like "you are sending mixed signals" is OK?
Hi if you're referring to my suggestion to Jonzy, it is not in general, it is specific for a specific situation and a specific reply in a specific way to the WAS initiating specific subjects.
Tink
That is being really specific tink
Now I am starting to understand alot of this terminology since I finally got my books. I have been reading and taking lots of notes so time to put my evil diabolical plan into play...muhahahaha. Sorry just been in a great mood lately and me and my son are hanging out and playing Hulk smash 'em!! Will have to see the wife here in a couple of hours and I feel like I should just throw her onto the floor and start making sweet l... oops started daydreaming again
Will keep updating as more drama unfolds!
Stay strong everyone!!
Ted
Good point, Tink. Jonzy....keep up the good work. Being happy for the sake of being happy for yourself is a hard thing to do for all of us here. Take it while you have it and enjoy! It can only get better
That is being really specific tink
LOL!
Being happy for the sake of being happy for yourself is a hard thing to do for all of us here. Take it while you have it and enjoy! It can only get better
Very nice outlook!
Tink
I have to be happy or else I am sad...heh doesn't make sense
I have accepted the fact that I have no control over anything with my marriage, so I just focus on me and my son.
I have also begun to find the old me that my wife fell in love with except this is the new and improved version of me...Ted v2.0!!!
Hope you all have a good weekend as me and my son are going to watch Kung Fu Panda!! Stay the course young Padawans and all will be golden!!
Ted
Hi have a good weekend Ted! Enjoy the movie with your son!
Tink
New update. Wife called and she wants to go to the movie with us. Don't know what brought that on but what the heck. Making her drive all the way out here this time, I am tired of driving all the way over to her place everyday!
Tomorrow I spend all day with her at my daughter's volleyball tournament. So this should be an interesting weekend.
Attitude is in check and I am going to have fun whether she does or not. No mushy stuff just general conversations and everything should go smooth. Got the duck's back all oiled up and I am not smelling any cheese...oh wait I don't smell anything cause I lost my sense of smell
Wish me luck!!
Hi! Good luck!
And when she tries to seduce you, remember to remain in control. You are going for the big picture, not one night.
Once she does brooch this, then you can say something gently and calmly asking regarding the mixed signals with examples and really wanting to know what is going on inside of her.
And really listen.
(And I was serious about a passionate kiss and then LEAVING.)
Tink
Well all was fine until all the text messaging and then she mysteriously has to go to the bathroom but is gone for like 30 seconds. I am beginning to think that there is another man and that hurts the most. I am so tired of the lies that I am about ready to give up. She told me it was the daughters volleyball coach but I know that is bullcrap!
All I did was smile and told her to go have fun. She then begins to give me a sob story that she does not want to go out because my son does not feel good. Said that she does not have "friends" waiting for her. I told her to just go have fun.
The fricking lies...I hate them!!
God just when I think I am so strong then I get this! I know it is a rollercoaster but I honestly don't know if I can win this fight.
Think I am going to just watch cartoons with my son and quit having my pity party now.
Ted
Ted....whoa down big fella! Take a breath, step back, regroup, detach, and focus man you CAN do this. Yesterday you were doing great, you accepted you can't control it, you were finding the new improved Ted v2 you were hanging with your kiddo and the world was right, what's that called....DETACHMENT!
OH YES it is a rollercoaster and you alone have the choice to buy a ticket. It's not our 'fight' to win, it is the battle of the WAS not ours. Remember Dbng is about & for us not them, it is our weapon to deal with the sitch use it read and reread again. You are strong when you don't let her 'bait' you. You said a ducks back that's the right attitude live it be it as I say. You have to remember that for every positive 'expect' more negatives.
Do you know there is a OM? If you have no proof for yourself then all you are doing is putting yourself thru torture. As they say around here the OP is not the problem it is just a circumstance of the sitch. You can't as much as it hurts concern yourself with it. With that said if that is something you can't forgive then that is a line you must draw in the sand, but don't make a decision made from emotion, remember what I told you about the 48 hour rule?
We all feel your pain, in my sitch I do all the bills and looking at the cell bill I saw where the W's phone usage went from about 150 minutes a month up to almost 800 after the 'bomb'. So I confronted her with the bills in hand what did she do...denied it I really had no proof there were no numbers it just showed she was checking her email granted it was like every half hour but still I had no real proof.
It is a tough path we are all on only you know when enough is enough. But IMHO you have just gotten started give yourself time to adjust time to learn the principles of Dbng.
You can do this don't let her bait you, don't read into things, don't try and read her mind how can you do that when she doesn't even know what she is thinking. Stay the path, detach. Tink and others have been given your good advice listen and learn. Slow and steady is the path brother one day at a time, live for you and the kids, be the man you want to be.
So enjoy the cartoons, be happy for the kids but almost as important be happy for yourself...
Peace be in your heart
Brian
Hi is there really another man or is she just doing a really bad job to try to make you jealous and pursue her?
It's starting to sound that way to me.
Why would she say it's the volleyball coach if it isn't? I need to think this through but right now I'm thinking Why don't you just ask him?
Tink
I can't say for sure if there is another man or not, but none of her stories add up the least bit. When I did approach her about it of course she is going to deny it!
Last night was a bad night. Wound up taking my son to the ER because he got so sick. So I sent my wife a text and called her to let her know. She got all sorts of pissed off because she thought I was trying to start a fight. She then proceeded to tell me that I should have let her take him home and yadda yadda yadda...like I cant take care of my son!! I just got scared because none of the stuff I gave him was working and he wouldn,t stop crying. I think she got mad because I ruined her plans!
Hi sorry about your son; I hope he's feeling better.
I don't think she was angry about her plans; I think she's upset for some reason we're trying to figure out.
Exactly what did she say about the volleyball teacher. Was she saying it like she was joking? What makes you think she was lying?
"but none of her stories add up the least bit."
Like what exactly has she been saying? What stories? I didn't know anything about stories?
"When I did approach her about it of course she is going to deny it!"
Why would she deny it if she just admitted about the volleyball teacher and about the male stranger who she went to with other female friends?
Tink
Well about the v-ball coach she showed me the text like I wanted to see it. She said she went out to call our daughter but I know that is a load of crap. She sat there and texted all throughout the movie and she would cover the screen so no prying eyes could see.
I don't know maybe I am just playing some stupid mind tricks on myself. That is the story I am going with and have to tell myself that there may be another man I can just be there when it falls through.
She would deny it because she is afraid of hurting me more.
I know for a fact that it is not the v-ball coach, forgot to state that.
"Last night was a bad night. Wound up taking my son to the ER because he got so sick. So I sent my wife a text and called her to let her know."
I am sorry to hear this I hope he is doing better how frightful. You did the right thing when it comes to kids better to do more than not enough good call dad. You did well by letting W know this is all the more you could have done.
"She got all sorts of pissed off because she thought I was trying to start a fight. She then proceeded to tell me that I should have let her take him home and yadda yadda yadda...like I cant take care of my son!!" "I think she got mad because I ruined her plans!"
IMO don't take this personal, it sounds more like a mother that was concerned for her child and maybe felt helpless and the anger was not directed at you but at the situation of not being there. You tried everything you could think of, nothing was working so you just did the next logical thing, if I were in your position I would have done the exact same thing.
You did nothing wrong you cared for your son that's what is important and again I hope the little guy is doing better.
Brian
Ya Jr. is doing fine now. We think he is having migraines so we are going to take him to a neurologist for further looksies.
Spent the afternoon with the wife at daughters v-ball tournament. Everything was good, she was leaning on me and we were making small conversation. She was even playing footsie with me. But I had to leave early because the mind started wandering and also the boys called and am leaving here in about 15 minutes for lots of drinking:)
Well about the v-ball coach she showed me the text like I wanted to see it. She said she went out to call our daughter but I know that is a load of crap. She sat there and texted all throughout the movie and she would cover the screen so no prying eyes could see.
She would deny it because she is afraid of hurting me more.
Hi I'm sorry but I'm not following this. She showed you text by the volleyball coach. You don't say what it is. Then she called your daughter but she was lying. You don't say what signs she was lying. Then you say she would deny there is another man even though she showed you text she told you outright was the volleyball guy. Can you be clearer. I can't really get or give insight on this because it's not clear what was said or done and how you are coming to these conclusions.
Thanks,
Tink
OK she did receive a text from the volleyball coach. That text was received if I remember right at around 8:45 is what it said and it was about the schedule for the tournament. So lets forget about the v-ball coach because I know for a fact there is nothing there.
She sat there and texted throughout the entire movie and when she made the call it was towards the end of the movie. She told me that she had to go to the bathroom but I have never seen a woman go to the bathroom so quickly. Plus the bathrooms were quite far from our theater. If she was going to call our daughter then why didn't she just say that?
OK so did she say the text was from the volleyball coach? Cause I thought she said that the man she's seeing is the volleyball coach but you know she's lying. That's why I was confused.
I think the weird thing is is that she asked to go to the movies with you too. Why would she do that and then spend the whole time texting? Was she really texting throughout the movie or was it like for 1/2 an hour?
(Sorry all the questions; just trying to clarify.)
Tink
No it was throughout the entire movie. Not constantly texting but it happened the entire time we were there, in the 1 1/2 hours we were there I would say there were roughly 25 texts and 1 phonecall and that is no joke! This was one of my gripes since we have been living out here. She would always be on the phone talking or texting and it would piss off everyone in my family even her mother had said something. But she never saw it as a problem.
I was reading that your thread will lock at 150 posts, what do I do when that happens? DO I just make a link and post it in another thread?
I was reading that your thread will lock at 150 posts, what do I do when that happens? DO I just make a link and post it in another thread?
Hi I didn't know about that. So yes start a new link and paste it in a post here.
"This was one of my gripes since we have been living out here."
Hi please explain; did you move far away from where you used to live??
Tink
Ya we used to live in Nebraska and we moved to Phoenix. We came out here to go to school and such with no family or friends out here.
As for making a new thread I think I will put it into newcomers because there is more traffic there. So don't be shy
and come over there because your advice is awesome tink!
Ya we used to live in Nebraska and we moved to Phoenix. We came out here to go to school and such with no family or friends out here.
As for making a new thread I think I will put it into newcomers because there is more traffic there. So don't be shy
and come over there because your advice is awesome tink!
Hi Jonzy..racefan sent me over here. My name is Mike. Do you know for sure whether or not an OM is involved in your sitch? Is there anyway you could find out for sure?
Have you started a thread in Newcomers yet?