I recommended this forum after digging through thousands of posts trying to find other's who could relate to my sitch and the DB folks were kind enough to oblidge. Specifically I wanted a place where former Walk-Away-Spouses who are now the LBS can give and recieve advice from other former WAS's and LBS's. Of course, we can learn from everyone no matter their sitch.
Excellent Idea...Matter of fact...I've tried unsuccessfully to locate books on the topic...I've even discussed it with my counselor and he had no idea what I was talking about. Maybe it's time for me to switch counselors. I commend you for hanging on for 5 months..I'm having a hard enough time dealing with 5 weeks. So..Has it gotten any easier over the months? Does your H seem to come around at all? Do you ever have set backs? Why can't it be easier than all of this?
It does get easier. When I first started DBing I didn't know how long I could do it. I would get frustrated after a few weeks and backslide. After about two months I was able to start DBing consistently. I just keep reminding myself that he waited 9 months for me and I was once acting much the same. We have been very slowly building our relationship. We are not yet at the point of recommitment but we are good friends and just last weekend he talked about being open to the idea of getting back together sometime in the future, but is not ready for that now. I do have setbacks. My DB coach told me that there will be occasions when things will seem to progress then he will back away to let me know that all is not forgiven and ok, but to not be discouraged by this.
Just tonight I felt confident enough to suggest the intensive with Michelle at first he said no, but did not bring up the reason he did when the Bomb first dropped, because he wants a divorce. Then he said he will think about it. So I do have setbacks but the steps forward are slowly coming to a point that they occur more often than the setbacks. I wish it could be easier. He hasn't filed and is open to getting back together so let's stop playing games and work on our marriage. I am willing to take it as slow as he wants, but it just isn't that easy. I hope that we can all be success stories and we can give hope and support to those in the same sitch.
Hi HOPEFULinCALI,
Just scanned your thread and wanted you to know that I am here for you. I almost walked away, but did not have the finances, so I stayed in the M. It was not my H's fault other than he ignored my emotional needs and other things that I won't get into now b/c it's too long. You can read my thread...or at least the beginning. I had an internet EA and it devasted my H. However, I only saw his ugly side toward me.....I never saw the hurt, etc. He kept that from me and I saw a side of him I never want to see again.
I will tell you like I told some other W's that went back to their H's only to discover he wasn't as receptive as expected by the W. I know from my own experience that I closed my heart to my H for many years and tried to fill my emptiness by involving myself in other things. Did not help my M, in fact, I just put more distance between us.......and he was doing the same thing as far as putting emotional distance between us. Anyway, once that heart has been closed for a long, long time....it seems awfuly hard to open it again. At least, it has for me. I'm not even sure I want to take that chance again. A wall of resentment has encased me for so many years that I am having a hard time tearing that wall down. Anyway, that is about me and not you.
I think I have seen by the many LBS here on the board that have worked on themselves very hard and discovered that they liked themselves better and begin to get attention from the opposite sex b/c of their new and improved looks, etc......well, it effects everything. They have protected themselves by withdrawing & detaching from their S for a long time to the point that they are not so sure they want to take a chance at a MR with them again. I think it goes back to that closed heart.
I know that you are confused by some of the advice you have been given. You need a counselor that is pro-marriage and finding solutions to fixing the MR. Too many secular counselors just start telling people they need to start over and find happiness with somebody else, etc. Finding a Christian Counselor is good. However, unless they are really formally education as a counselor, they don't always give the best advice either, so you have to pray for them and yourself that God will lead them in what to tell you in the sessions. After all, they are only human too.
Men seem to have a problem about going to Counseling or any kind of marriage retreat, etc. They just do not like discussing private matters with "strangers" and airing their dirty laundry. I think it is a "male" thing....lol. Maybe it's their ego or something, I don't know. My H will not even consider going to a C. He won't go to a Pastor or anyone. He is a good Christian and very faithful in the Church work, etc., but he is not going to talk about our private R to anyone else! So, I don't bring it up anymore and I pray and rely on God's influence on my H's heart since he is not going to listen to a C......maybe he will listen to God!
You mentioned your H's reaction to seeing you on the computer. I took it that you meant when you were on the board here. His reaction to your telling him that you were trying to help others....is very typical for a lot of men. I personally think they are thinking in their own mind, "Who are you to give anyone help when we are in need ourselves?" They don't realize what this board is all about, but I woudn't even try to explain it to him. Unless of course, he shows a lot of interest and asks more sincere questions.
I would be very hesitate in trying to get him to read certain books or talk to counselors or go to retreats, etc. unless you feel the timing is right and he is very receptive to the idea. Otherwise, these things are seen as "pressure" to him and his heart will be closed to anything that you are wanting him to "get" by doing all of this. I think in his mind, you believe he needs to be "fixed" to make the M work. It's like the H's is showing by attending any of this, that it's all his fault that there ever was a problem in the MR. So, he finds it easier just to say no to these things.
I think you can be encourging to other newcomers that were WAW's and then decided to return to their H's only to feel like a LBS themselves. We will all help each other......what you say?
The fact you and your H are in the "friendship" stage is very good. It gives you time to show him your improvements and let him see the woman he originally fell in love with. During this stage you are in (friends), you can use opportunities (when the timing is right) to use a little light flirting, etc. Gradually work up to more romance and physical touching. And, I do mean gradually! That requires.....you know before I say it.....patience. And a determination not to give up.
As far as the emails to you from the OW.........I would advise you to never delete anything she sends you. That is your evidence! It is no longer just your word against hers. Now, I don't know how to retrieve something that has be "Permantly" deleted, but I think some computer tech person might be helpful. I have heard that nothing is truly lost from a computer, that you just have to know what to do to find it. I will ask the computer tech guy at work if he can give me simple instructions as what to do to retrieve it. I think the SIL needs to see what the OW said and I think your H should see it also. That is just IMHO, and not everyone will agree with it.
That is just part of my "personality" coming out, so take it however you feel about it.
You mentioned his depression. It could be that he knows more about the OW than he is telling you. He could be disappointed in her b/c she did not live up to his "fantasy" about her. Or, he could be trying to make up his mind who he is going to decide to spend his life with or have a R with.........the OW or you. That takes a big toll on a person. I know it did me. Just making the decision to break it off with the OM and to stay with my H........oh, Lordy, that was hard! And, as I told my H (who was disappointed that I was not acting like I wanted to put a 100% into working on our M) just b/c I made the decision to stay with him did not give me any miraculas feelings of desire or any other feelings. Plus I had to go though the grieving process of getting over the OM. Even though I never had a PA, EA's can be very powerful to a woman. The OM is her fantasy! He is in her mind and heart and it is awful hard to wash that away when you aren't having a physical R with your H. When I would go to bed (alone) the OM would be there in my mind and I would began to fantisize about him. So, maybe your H is going through some of the same stuff. However, I had to get my eyes open and so does your H. That is why I suggested that he sees the email from his OW with his own eyes and not just hear it from you. He may be depressed just wondering who to believe.....you or her. I'm sure you did look in your delete folder to see if her email was still there after you hit the deleted button. Unless you permantly deleted it, it should still be there. Print it out or forward to your H. It's your evidence. I would even keep a tape recorder by the phone just to be ready to recored any unwanted phone calles from the OW or the SIL that may call you every name invented. You probably wouldn't want to play it unless your H just would not truly believe they would do such a thing. Then you could show your hard evidence. When he asked why you recorded it, be honest and tell him that you wanted it in case you needed to prove to him how you were being bullied by these women.
Okay, I've talk enough, but I want to be here for you b/c I know you need a friend that understands and I think I do.
Don't give up and be sure to take care of yourself and keep improving yourself. Come here to blow off steam and frustration instead of your H. Let me hear from you.
Sandi2
Sandi,
I just wrote you to check out this forum but I see that you already have. I can't thank you enough for taking the time to write to me. I will be back with a more sufficient response, but I just wanted to make sure and thank you for your support.
I guess I fit...
Good idea for the forum.
I was a WAH in my first marriage, and an LBS in my second.
Not sure if I qualify.
Jack, I think any that walk away or started to walk away would qualify. I think I am very blessed that I have not been in the shoes of both sides where I walked away and then was the LBS too. You are the ones that can really give us advice, I think, since you have experienced both types of pain. So, please feel free to do that.
Sandi
Sandi,
You said that your husband put emotional distance between the two of you. Are you closer now? My husband and I are friends, but I still feel so much distance between the two of us. I have always been the talker between the two of us so I am used to carrying the conversations, but it is exhausting for even me. It takes some time for him to warm up to me everytime I see him and sometimes it is like pulling teeth trying to get him to engage and joke around. How do I get us closer if he is resistant to it? I am seriously contemplating the intensive with Michelle.
I am shocked how many therapists are not pro-marriage. For a short time I stopped seeing the therapist we saw together, but I was so disappointed by the other therapists I found, including a Christian counselor, that I am back with our original therapists. I think that she is a good individual counselor, but couples is not her strength, she is too passive for it. One Ph.D I saw made a whole session out of trying to convince me that my marriage was over and that I needed to move on. Needless to say that was our last session.
I agree with your assertion of what the LBS is feeling. I think it even applies to me as a WAW. When I walked away there wasn't much he could do immediately to change my mind because I had built up a wall and emotionally distanced myself to protect myself from the hurt and disappointment.
Any thoughts? How are things with you?
This is a wonderful idea!
I was a WAW ... waaaaaaaaay before I found DB. He was abusive, but if I had found DB way ba ck then, I would have healed a lot sooner,changed a lot of my behaviors sooner and made fewer relationship mistakes (I sure hope so, anyway
).
Thanks!
sgctxok,
He was abusive, but if I had found DB way ba ck then, I would have healed a lot sooner,changed a lot of my behaviors sooner and made fewer relationship mistakes
Would you have gone back to your H after your healing? I am curious because I am in a similar situation, only I am the LBS. This is my 2nd M. I am like Jack - a WAS in the 1st M and LBS in the 2nd M.
-PH
PH--he just stayed mean and very bitter. If at ANY point after he left, if he had been kind and decent, to me and the kids, ... at least while my kids were growing up, I would have considered it seriously, because I so believe in marriage and my vows.
13 years later, he's still bitter. He remarried for 2 years, they divorced...she never met my kids, she was 20 years younger, he says she cheated on him, but he says that about me, and that isn't true.
I think it is a somewhat unique situation, although a girl I work with is going through pretty much the same thing. (Although, where in my company work, which is in corporate America, oddly enough, there are good marriages all around me).
The thing that I have seen and experience have the most success, and I certainly am not an expert, just talking about my life and the board....is REAL GIVING. (Do a search on this site and look in DR). It certainly made a difference in my life.
Now did I try real giving with my exH? A little. It made things worse. It made him jealous. I may not have gotten it right. I didn't DB ... I had never heard of it then (1994).
But I have since then, and it really makes a huge difference. AND I get it in return.
sg, I am confused. Your previous post said you were a WAW. So, even though he was the abuser, you thought that your DBing could have helped save your M as long as he also responded to your DBing? If this is what you meant, we are thinking alike. This is what my thinking has been from Day 1 of DBing, 18.5 months ago (i.e. 2 weeks after he moved out). He moved out 2 weeks after a VERY angry outburst, which was the 5th in 2 years of our 3.5 M (then) We are now married 5 years. The first 2 weeks, he kept talking D and behaved as if we were D. After the 2 weeks (after DBing started), no mention of D ever.
I too believe in Real Giving, which I didn't understand prior to reading DR.
But I have since then, and it really makes a huge difference. AND I get it in return.
Do you get real giving in return, automatically in response to YOUR real giving? Did your real giving cause the receiver to ask why the difference and the motivation to find out about real giving before they practised it?
So my husband has agreed to the Intensive with Michelle. My stomach is turning and my head is spinning. He is so convinced that the D is what he wants that I am not sure that anyone can get through to him, but I am confident that if anyone can it is Michelle. I am also asking myself if he is ready for this. Then again I think that time will only solidify his decision to get a D.
I am very nervous that this will not work and on the other hand excited that he has agreed to an opportunity that may save our marriage.
Oh...I'm so excited for you. You are right. Wait til you meet Michele in person. There is no way it will solidify his decision to D. I will be praying for you....but this truly is amazing.
In my situation...
If he would have just been decent at all I would have kept stayed. After I had learned about DB, there would have been things I could have done to make the situation much better. I was pretty classic. I shut up, started working on myself, I wasn't consciously preparing to leave, if I had, I would have saved money.
But I did start exercising, losing weight, started a direct selling business, got my confidence up, decided to go back to school (hadn't made actual plans). I thought it would make him happier. He got meaner.
It took being with someone who wasn't like that for me to see the actions of MINE that weren't 'working'. When we broke up, I fell apart, and found Michele. YEAH. Peace of mind.
I'm not the most perfect DBer. I am the most grateful for DB.
I have so much hope for you!
Hopeful, I am so excited for you that your H agreed to go with you to the intensive session with Michele. I had considered it but didn't have to money to spend on it and wasn't confident about my H agreeing to go. How did you manage to get him to go? How did you even bring it up to him?
Good luck for the session. When will it occur?
sg,
But I did start exercising, losing weight, started a direct selling business, got my confidence up, decided to go back to school (hadn't made actual plans). I thought it would make him happier. He got meaner.
You would have stayed even though he was being abusive?
I have so much hope for you!
Not sure if this was meant for me or for Hopeful. If it was for me, why do you say you have so much hope for me? Sometimes, I still wonder about having the intensive session with Michele, but it is beyond my budget at the moment. I am not sure if bringing up a MC session would push my H further away or bring him closer to me. Another thing to pray about.
sg,
Thank you so much. I am so anxious and scared.
About your sitch. That is what I love about DBing. It helps us to find ourselves again and hopefully in the process restore our marriages, but if not we are a stronger person for it.
ph,
I was lucky enough to catch Michelle on the phone when I called to get more information. I am waiting for them to contact me as to Michelle's availability but I am hoping for this week or weekend. His family is coming into town on Sunday through the end of the month so I will have to wait another month if it isn't soon.
I told him that I understood that he didn't want to be married and I wasn't interested in marriage counseling, but I needed this to help me come to terms with our sitch. I asked as a favor to me. Of course he asked why I couldn't do it in our hometown and how I was so sure that she would help me in one day. My response was that I didn't want to spend weeks, months or longer with a therapist when Michelle could set me in the right direction in one day. Furthermore, I explained that she had an excellent reputation.
HIC,
did Michele encourage you to attend w/your H? I to am facing a similar dilema. It seems to almost contradict DB principles to ask the WAS to go to an intensive, but I personally feel that if we could get there we may be able to turn the corner.
I asked my W to consider w/ a similar talk last week and she said she'd think about it, but I'm ceratinly not going to pressure her. I will be anxious to hear feedback once you've attended. I wish you the best
I gave you, Saus and Brian a thank you in the "To all potential WAWs...Don't go" thread. My sitch is kind of explained there.
Hopeful...
I was the LBS, and I've often considered becoming the WAS after DBing and reconciling. My H didn't actually leave the house, but we lived in separate bedrooms and had very separate lives for about 6 months.
I don't know if you're interested in my perspective, but I'm offering it anyway. Of course my sitch is my sitch, but maybe it applies to yours? I don't know.
Anyway, DBing saved my life. My H dropping the bomb woke me up. The combination of the two events helped me see what I needed to work on, but they also opened my eyes. Wide.
A lot of my trouble...my resentment...has been how now that H has gotten everything he wanted from me, he's not seeming willing to work as hard...or much at all...on giving me what I want and need from a partner. Like I said, these things woke me up to the crappy life I was living and what I didn't have in a spouse.
We've been in MC for two years now, and while we communicate really well these days, I see that my H's attention is pretty much where it always has been...work, his projects, etc. I find myself often wondering, "But what about me? What about what I want?" I've expressed it...asked for it...and I'm not seeing a sincere effort from him like I'd like.
So I think about leaving sometimes, now that I know what I deserve and want and need in a partner. I wonder if I'm doomed to a life with a man who had the nerve to demand something different from me, but then couldn't man up and do the same for me.
Your H had a lot of time to think and contemplate while you were gone, so I'm wondering what he's discovered...what he truly wants. I know you WAS's have your own pain you go through, but the LBS has their own brand of hell to deal with. When the WAS recommits, we feel relief and a sense of, "Okay, now we can work on building something great!" But when the WAS is just content now that their needs are being met or just doesn't have the perspective we have (especially w/DBing)...well, it's grating.
I really wish you well. Honestly, I think both of you having the perspective of the other gives you a lot of hope for building a strong, solid marriage at the end of all of this.
Good luck,
SD
Brant,
I disagree, or should I say agree that as a WAS, I wish I had known more about the DB stuff!!!! My H mentioned it to maybe once or twice, after I first left. But he really didn't get my attention. I truly feel that if he had been more persuasive, I would have listened. He gave me the "5 languages of Love" and I read it in one day soon after I left. I suppose he too, felt that giving away the DB secrets to me would leave him at a disadvantage. I think that attending DB intensive with the LBS and WAW would be an excellent idea. If anything, ask her to attend for your sanity rather than a reconciliation. In other words, trick her, I wish my H had!!!
DB has changed my life and my perspective on marriage, I only hope that with time I can rebuild my m, you are fortunate to be able to attend counseling so close to home, unfortunately we don't have anything way over here on the East coast..
Take care and best of luck to you!!
HIC,
did Michele encourage you to attend w/your H? I to am facing a similar dilema. It seems to almost contradict DB principles to ask the WAS to go to an intensive, but I personally feel that if we could get there we may be able to turn the corner.
Brantacan,
I was also concerned that asking my husband to go would be perceived as pushing which is against DB principles. At this point though I feel that I have played all my cards and I need a resolution. I don't see my sitch getting making much more progress without Michele's help.
I told Michele that I was interested in attending with my husband and she asked if he was receptive to it. I replied that at first he said no and then said maybe. I asked him before talking to Michele for the first time then again after talking to Michele. After talking to Michele he then said he would go. She didn't say that he shouldn't go.
Personally speaking the book and coaches have helped me get to where I am without his participation, but I think my husband and I need to work together with Michele's expert advice to give us that extra push. Therefore, I wouldn't go on my own.
If you are interested you should contact Michele and ask her advice on how to approach the situation. Thank you for the kind words. I will respond to your other posts if I can be of help or just to provide support. I wish you the best of luck and I am here, as we all are, to support you.
I would have stayed if he would have stopped being abusive. And when I was mature enough, I would have tried to learn REAL GIVING. I would have built from there.
I soooooooo believe in this.
I'm so lucky that my SO responds with REAL GIVING to me as well. But that was the key to this relationship. The glue that holds us together. For some it is their sexual relationship---but then--that turns out to be the REAL GIVING there. For some, it's their activities together....etc.
It's learning to try to give what YOUR SPOUSE NEEDS AND WANTS. Not what you think they should appreciate that you are giving.
It doesn't fulfill your whole life. It isn't meant to. You fulfill your life. This fulfills the relationship. The love that grows people. Grows their hearts.
Michele once told me something like.... G is a package. He comes with a package. No matter how much he loves you, he won't become a different person.
So ... even when you're piecing.... this person isn't going to be your whole life, isn't going to be the end all be all for most people (some people do find that, I think)....but it isn't necessary.
Knowing you are loved. Loving someone. Really.
It's enough.
It's fun. And it's wonderful.
HIC,
I am keeping the intensive in my back pocket just in case I need a secret weapon. Any idea on what the cost of that can be? It would be helpful to know what kind of funds I would have to come up with to make it happen if the need arose.
I am currently 2/3 of the way through my DB coaching and it has been a great help so far. I also think that our MC has opened the lines of communication for us and for that I am very grateful.
I certainly wish you all the best. I know you can make it work. You have been such a positive force in your M. Keep going and you can't help but come out of this a better person and with an excellent chance of reclaiming your M!
Well gotta run...time to pick S12 up from hockey practice.
-B
SD,
I am truly sorry that we have to meet in this fashion. Did you do the LRT? Maybe your husband needs a wake up call, like I did, to realize what an amazing person he would be losing.
Of course I am interested in your perspective. As a former WAW I have a bit of understanding of how my husband feels, but not entirely. I thank you for offering your perspective. My DB coach said something similar. When I came back I was all to happy to let things be and not put in the work. That lasted all of a week before he dropped the bomb. I thought he should be happy, after all his months of trying, to have be back. She and now you, have helped my realize how incredibly selfish I was to expect such a thing after hurting him so deeply.
Just a few weeks after the bomb dropped I found DBing and have been DBing ever since. I hope there is a light at the end of the tunnel for us, you and all DBers. Believe me, I will put in 100% effort into my marriage and not just until we are on safer ground, but for a lifetime. I will never again take my husband or my responsibility for this marriage for granted. Thank you again.
All the best,
HIC
Brant,
I disagree, or should I say agree that as a WAS, I wish I had known more about the DB stuff!!!! My H mentioned it to maybe once or twice, after I first left. But he really didn't get my attention. I truly feel that if he had been more persuasive, I would have listened. He gave me the "5 languages of Love" and I read it in one day soon after I left. I suppose he too, felt that giving away the DB secrets to me would leave him at a disadvantage. I think that attending DB intensive with the LBS and WAW would be an excellent idea. If anything, ask her to attend for your sanity rather than a reconciliation. In other words, trick her, I wish my H had!!!
Saus & Brant,
I feel the same way. I wish my husband had really pushed more or got me in to see Michelle. Of course I am by no means excusing my insanity. That is the only way to explain it. I look back and say what was I thinking. I was crazy, insane, in a fog etc. etc.
When I talked to my husband about the intensive I told him that it was to help me come to terms with our sitch. It is part of what Michele does after all.
However, everyone is different. I can't imagine though that the intensive wouldn't work. I think the difference lies in whether the spouse is at all receptive to it. The fact that you two are in counseling is a good sign that she may be receptive
B,
I tried sending a PM to give you more information but you are overlimit. Send one to me if you like.
I always appreciate the encouraging words. I also wish you the best. It is truly an inspiration to me to see the dedication you have to your family and your wife. I pray that she sees that in you soon enough. Keep it up!
HIC,
I don't think the messaging works for anyone. It said that you were over your limit of messages too. I know that can't be the case for me as I have only received one message and it was the welcome message from DB.
You may email me if you like. You can find my email address in the contact page at
http://www.bryankelsen.com I look forward to hearing from you.
-B
Bryan,
Sorry I clicked on the email link. Hopefully it goes straight to you. BTW the photographs are breathtaking. Photography truly is an art.
HIC,
Yes, I did get the email. Thank you for taking the time to send it. And thank you for your kind words. Every so often I manage to get one in focus...LOL.
-B
HiC, I asked about the cost and it blew me away. Did Michele talk to you directly because you expressed interest in the intensive? I had imagined that it would all have been arranged through Virginia. I would love to be able to talk to Michele. In fact, I was hoping at the very beginning that she still did the telephone coaching. Because she didn't, I found Laurie and benefited alot from speaking with Laurie for 18 months.
I think you handled the talk with your H very well. Did you also offer to pay the entire bill for the intensive or did your H agree to share the cost?
sg, Thanks so much for sharing. I am going to paste this in my thread. All the best with your SO. It took me a little while to decode "SO".
-PH
Did Michele talk to you directly because you expressed interest in the intensive?
Did you also offer to pay the entire bill for the intensive or did your H agree to share the cost?
PH,
Thank you. The first time I called I spoke to Virginia just to get information. At that time Virginia told me that Michele would speak to me about how to approach my husband if I was interested in pursuing the intensive.
The second time I called just this past weekend to get more information I just happened to catch Michele on the phone. Either way at some point Michele will talk with you to help you decide the best way to approach your spouse and to get more information about you and your spouse.
I am paying for the intensive since it is by my request and I haven't told him the cost. I suspect that he would not go if he knew the costs.
Saus and HIC,
once again, many thanks. very reassuring thoughts from both of you.
when I brought up the intensive w/W I was so worried that I created an enormous setback. She immediatley perceived it as an attempt to pursue more marriage counseling and was quite skeptical and a bit frustrated . So, at that point I had to share DR w/her and did use the advice Virginia provided for trying encourage W to go. She took the book with her and agreed to consider attending an intensive. It's been about 9 days and we've had a couple brief, but friendly phone conversations, but DR or the intensive has not been brought up. So, not sure what she's thinking or if she's even reading the book.
Now I'm looking for the appropriate time to discuss it w/her again. Don't want to be too pushy with her. It's even more challenging since she has OM in her life. I'm sure much of her reluctance is related to the possibility of losing OM if she goes through with this.
Again, I am so very thankful for what both of you are sharing, and will continue to keep ya'll in my prayers. I hope I can be as helpful and inspirational as the two of you have been and I'm sure will continue to be.
Hopeful....
thanks for pointing me over here.
Just wanted to say that in my R I was the WAS. I was absolutely smothered and needed to be on my own for a bit. I was called 20 times per day and lets not even get into the texts. At least one an hour.
My H followed the principals from the boards ( he is on a different board) and he detached and learned how to be happy and independent. I really liked the changes. Lets just say that I spent months trying to R and all i ever heard was how much he did not want the R back. How he did NOT love me that way. how he was happier in his life now...and so on
I believe that he was waiting to see changes in me like the ones he had made. I broke his trust when I left and I really really hurt him. Our seperation was happening (without the name) for over a year before I actually left.
It took until almost NOVEMBER for him to finally let me in. He did. He started to trust me again. NOW I have screwed that up again.....with my own insecurities. It was 7 months before he was even open to being my friend again is my point.
My point is he would not even pay attention to me until I started being happy. I was independent. I did not count onm him for things.
I have now hurt him again and unbelievably he is still talking to me. We do have 2 children together os HAVE to talk but I have offerred him a D and he will not take it yet.
It is a hard road. I sometime lash out and say I want a D so I can the pain of it over NOW. sometimes I dont see putting off the inevitable hurt and act rashly. He always points this out to me. It is definitely a lesson in patience.
As a WAH.
IF my wife had shown me the book. I would have been...ehhh.
IF my wife had read the book, and actually changed. REALLY changed in aspects that were important to me. Not nagging, not being so co-dependant, I'd probablly be married to her still.
DBing is in reality self help. Saving the marriage is secondary to it. You improve yourself and how you interact with others, you improve your marriage. IMHO.
LBL,
It sounds like you are stuck in the blame game and I mean blaming yourself. Like I said we have all made mistakes.
Since the bomb dropped I have seen three new therapists besides the one we saw together. I am now seeing just two, but they all pointed out the same thing that I was being too hard on myself. I believe I deserved it for being so hurtful to my husband. Still, I was dealing with my own hurt from the relationship and I did what I did the only way I knew how. Walking away may have not been the best solution, but I can't keep looking back or I and we will never move forward. Furthermore, and it is sad to say, perhaps this is what I needed to see how much my marriage really meant to me and to see my own faults. Otherwise we may already be divorced.
There are some days when I still really get down on myself, but I am no good to anyone that way and I have to continue to make changes not only for my marriage but myself. I was really able to DB once I was guided to this realization. I have an end goal in mind of who I want to be and it helps me to stay focused when those old behaviors or insecurities creep up on me.
JTB,
I couldn't agree more.
Hopefull in CA,
It's funny you should mention the fog..I too, cannot for the life of me figure it out. It was like, I was a different person. I look at my H and my children and think, how could I have walked away? Than, I think of the Bf and I literally become sick. It took us leaving to realize the value of what we had!!! Take care and best wishes!!
Saus,
I am sure hoping that the fog will lift for my W. I KNOW that she has changed and I will just hang on until the winds come up and blow that fog away.
-Bryan
Saus,
I wish I understood it better so that I could avoid it happening again, help the other WAW's and LBS's, and better understand how to handle the fog my husband is now in. The sitch is a mixed blessing. If, God forbid I lose my marriage, I am a stronger person and I understand more about relationships. If, God willing, my marriage is saved I believe my marriage, with some work, will be more amazing than I could have imagined it would be and we could become a stronger unit than we would otherwise have been.
I hope your sitch continues to improve. I will be offering my support. Good luck!
Bryan,
At least we can laugh about something..I like your response!!
Littlebitlost,
I too, at times become weary of the limbo that we live in (together/not together) and lash out at my H. But, my H, like your H, sees this as a complete negative and it sets me back an entire week in my efforts!! It's extremely hard to live in the unknown, while we watch seemingly happy couples live their day to day lives. Some days, I do want to just give up and say I'd rather be divorced than wander aimlessly not knowing. But most days, I see the light, and I go forward knowing that I have to try my hardest or I will never be able to forgive myself.
Your children are still young, and like I've said in most of my posts...It's not easy when you're on your own and you walk...but when you walk with two small children involved its even harder. It's hard to decide what to do, but ultimately you will make the decision that's best for you...just remember...what the consequences of that decision may be..
Take care and you're not alone!!!
HiC, Thanks for sharing. When is your intensive? Is it in Boulder? I have heard that she can do it outside of Boulder depending on her travelling schedule. I can't wait to hear your thoughts on her intensive.
PH,
How are you?
My intensive will hopefully be on the 29th in Boulder. I was praying it could be this week or weekend, but my husband could not get any time off during the week and the intensives are only during the week.
I hope that things work out and we can make a weekend of it. It would be nice to get away and reconnect. I believe she also has intensives in Illinois. I will make it a point to come back and let everyone know how it went and what I learned.
Thanks!!!
HiC, I hope the 29th date works out for you. I will pray for your intensive. Keep praying hard for the intensive. Have you heard of "The Power Of A Praying Wife"? Great book. I use it EVERYDAY.
I hope that things work out and we can make a weekend of it. It would be nice to get away and reconnect. I believe she also has intensives in Illinois. I will make it a point to come back and let everyone know how it went and what I learned.
I hope you get to spend some time together. Keep the positive thought flowing. They definitely help. "Thoughts become things", from "The Secret".
I will have to enquire about the intensives soon. I would like to hear whether Michele thinks it'd be helpful in my unique situation. I have already had many many hours of DB coaching.
I am doing fine. Hanging in there, amidst a very busy work schedule. I have been thinking about my H, even though it isn't a conscious thing at all, especially when my mind is so busy working on work stuff.
Have you heard of "The Power Of A Praying Wife"? Great book. I use it EVERYDAY.
I actually just picked it up a couple of weeks ago. I have been trying to read it everyday. It has been a great resource for me. I also picked up the secret some months ago, but I have yet to read it.
I will have to enquire about the intensives soon. I would like to hear whether Michele thinks it'd be helpful in my unique situation. I have already had many many hours of DB coaching.
If you decide to do the intensive I hope that it helps to turn you sitch around. I anticipate getting more insight that I can share with everyone.
I am doing fine. Hanging in there, amidst a very busy work schedule. I have been thinking about my H, even though it isn't a conscious thing at all, especially when my mind is so busy working on work stuff.
It is difficult not to think about our spouses although, it would worry me if I ever did. That is when you know it is over for you. Thanks, as always, for your support. This board has been a lifesaver for me. I am praying for us all.
HiC
So here is my new dilemma. What to do for V-Day? His sister and mom will be in town and I planned to get something for everyone.
Also, having to move out put me in a terrible financial sitch. At this point I am basically living off credit cards and between the two of us we have mostly depleted the large savings we had when returning to the states 2yrs ago (a significant part of that was buying a house). My motive for moving back to the house is in large part for financial reasons. Should I breach the subject with him? Since he has agreed to the intensive I don't want to put too much pressure on him.
HiC, My suggestion is to pray about. I agree that this could be adding on the pressure. Remember to ask yourself "Will this bring me closer to or further away from my goal?" Since you are worried about finances, especially after paying for the intensive, would you consider doing something low key for V-Day? Like a small box of chocolates and/or a card with cute/sweet words for each one?
hopeful,
I agree with your idea of not mentioning the finacial thing to him.. I would get him something small and thought provoking for V-day. When I want to give something sentimental and inexpensive, I usually purchase a book and write an inscription in it. (However, the book obviously needs to relate to something that will trigger the thoughtfulness of the gift) The local Barnes and Noble here on the East Coast had some excellent ideas and selections. Like I told Bryan, about V-day, I think we WAW now LBS should give the H's something that will cause them to think.. not mushy, but simply thought provoking. I hope that all goes well for you in the mean time. We all have a rough week ahead of us next week...It's a shame we all don't live close enough for us to get together on V-day..I'm sure that would make it alot easier on all of us!! Take care.
saus
HiC, Be cautious in picking something out for your H. It needs to be safe and light, not guilt-provoking. You know best where he is at and what he'd find offensive or guilting. Only get something for him, if you're also getting something for the others. Do you normally get something for the others? If not, I would be careful about starting this. It may come across as insincere and "using" them as an excuse to also get something for your H. Try to picture your H's reaction and theirs.
SInce the S, I never got anything for my H for V-Day or our wedding anniversary or birthday. I only got him something small for Christmas because I got something for the boys, my stepsons. Getting the boys gifts for Christmas/birthday wasn't something new at all.
However, this year I bought some V-Day cards, which I probably won't be giving to him. I just bought them in case I decided to give them or decided to write them out but keep them with me to give him after we reconcile.
Saus and PH,
Thank you. You have given me some things to think about. I normally only get my husband a present. For any gift giving holiday I would know exactly what I want to get him just by the things that he says or does, but since we hardly see each other it is difficult to know.
Are you planning on doing something for your H's?
I've decided not to ask him about moving in for now. I don't want to do anything to jeopardize going to the intensive. I am unhappy that he will be lying to his family by telling them we are divorced or that he filed for a divorce while they are here.
Thanks again!!!
HiC, I am not planning on doing anything for my H. I am going to let him take the lead. This has been my DB strategy as a rule for romantic occasions, and it works better for us this way. Last year was the only time I initated celebrating his BD.
You don't know what he will end up saying to them, and you can't control it, so try not to think about it too much.
I am also not doing anything for my H, but he is deep in his PA & EA still and is not interested in R yet so I am trying not to pursue.
Sometimes I feel like he has complete control. I try not to give him that power, but it is such an overwhelming and foreign feeling for me. I drives me crazy that I feel as if I have no say in our future.
I'll try to get my mind off of it, enjoy the rest of the day and tomorrow is a brand new day. Thanks for the encouragement.
I have the double coming up... V-day and my W's b-day which is a week later. Ugh! I have decided that I will help the kids do something for their mom, but I won't be doing anything directly. No cards, no gifts. It will be obvious that I assisted the kids, but it won't be something "I" would have gotten her, it will be what they want to do. I will just be financing it. I figure that way she will get something from the boys and see that there is nothing from me other than helping them.
I was tempted to do something amazing for her b-day to show that I still care, but she will get that message by seeing that I helped the boys without signing my name to a card.
The hard part will be explaining it to the kids. I am sure I will manage.
-B
Bryan,
That is rough. I would say you are doing the right thing. She still knows that you care. Shortly after our first separation was x-mas, my birthday and v-day and he got me presents for all three of course. That would have definitely peaked my interest if my H did not get me presents.
How are you doing otherwise? Your wife is lucky that you are making such an effort to save your marriage. Continued luck!
Bryan,
Good plan. A Very good plan. The one with the boys.
Get a B Day card for her and sign it. Nothing mushy, or overly sentimental, a friendly one, with a simple signature, and do not give it to her. But keep it handy. Maybe even a small gift card to a book store of coffe shop.
IF she mentions that you didn't get her anything pull it out and give it to her, saying that you wanted to give her space, and weren't planning on it unless she said something.
Otherwise do not give it to her.
Jack,
Now THAT's a plan! I will just do that. You da man! Thanks for the suggestion. It is friends like you guys that keep me going and making positive steps toward getting my family back on the right track!
Thanks for being there for me! I know this will work. It will be on God's timetable, but I will be here when he does his thing.
-Bryan
"Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up" Galatians 6:9
The hard part is going to be NOT giving it to her.
The opposite of Nike.
Just DON't do it.
I love the V-Day plan Bryan!!!
Jack's idea is fantastic!
Not to worry...I can do it. Or not as the case may be...LOL
Thanks Michelle. I think I am all set now. I say bring it on! LOL.
-B
"Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up" Galatians 6:9
Jack has been here awhile:
Registered: 01/25/06
Valentine's Day is going to be interesting to say the least. It's comforting that I'm not alone thinking about what to do. It's not enough that it's Valentine's Day, but it's also our 3 year anniversary, and my birthday.
Since there is OM in the picture I am totally lost. If feel damned if I do, damned if I don't (with respect to even a low key gift).
I am almost inclined to not do anything. I fear that attention from the OM on that day, plus something from me related to Vday and the anniversary would just overwhelm her and lead to further frustration on her part.
As much I'd love to do something great for her, she probably expects that I will do something to "compete" with OM, so maybe just backing off will really get her attention.
Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
I wish you all the best next week
Doing the opposite of what you normally have done will get attention.
It's your B Day too. Man I am sorry, the pain of what she more than likely will not do is something you are just going to have to suck up and prepare yourself to be dissappointed.
I totally understand what you are going through. I didn't get crap for my birthday or Christmas. It wasn't til almost 1 week after my birthday that I even got a half-a$$ed "I hope you had a good birthday".
My in-laws took me out to dinner and I had a great time with my friends and such. However, it really hurt to not even get a happy birthday IM or e-mail or voicemail. After 6 years it seems like the least I deserve.
The birthday thing is not really that big of a deal. I'm not expecting anything from her despite the fact that we have been getting along pretty well. The tough part for me is not giving my W something for our anniversary and knowing that the OM will likely do something romantic. But I know a gift from me, even something light will increase her guilt, so...
Nobody ever claimed that DB was easy eh?
JTB, I wrote this in another post under another topic heading a few days ago: "we get the problems we need in life to fix those things about ourselves that need fixing". Well, among many other things, patience and handling stress well were never my best qualities. Because of my current M sitch, I have made tremendous progress improving those particular traits.
Bran,
I'm going to go off the beaten path here!!! I disagree with not doing anything!! My H doing something special for me on my B-day meant the world to me...and actually showed me who the real man in the picture was..and trust me, it' wasn't the BF, (who bought me a massage gift certificate, which he buys everyone the same thing..).
If you've read any of my posts, my H and I had been apart for 4 months when my B-day came around. He went to great lengths to plan a special surprise for me. Dispite what others think, I still believe a small thoughtful gesture lets the other indivdual know that you at least care. Doing nothing, to me, simply says that you don't care. It's not the size or price of the gift, it's the thought put into it!! Being extravagant would push someone away, but I don't feel being thoughtful would. That's just my 2 cents.
Bryan and I had this discussion in our posts a day or two ago, and I just have to stop and wonder at what point this mind game (gift/no gift) stops? I believe we all have to adjust it to our sitch. No one knows our H or WAW, better than we do...so we have to step into their minds for a moment (the old minds not the foggy ones..LOL) and think about how we should handle the sitch!
It will truly be interesting to see, our stories that we have to share on the 15th!
Bran,
Forgot to mention, our wedding anniversary was 10 days before my b-day, and he gave me the book "The Five Languages of Love" with a thoughtful inscription in it. I read the book the next day, thinking only of him. Ironically enough, If i had read the book before I left, it would have helped me figure things out! From the perspective of a WAW...I say, once again, give something thoughtful that only you (someone who knows her so well) would be able to give!!! My H followed ALL of the other DB rules, but he also knew how to work the gift thing!!! ONLY you know your W, and it's your call...
MR. HYDE VISITED TODAY
I had a bit of a backslide today. I saw H on Saturday and when leaving said I would see him the Sunday to say hi when his sister flew in for a visit from overseas. He said ok. So I see him yesterday and the entire time he is giving me the cold shoulder and hinting that I need to leave at some point.
This morning I tell him I needed him to treat me nicer. He responded "are we doing this again?". I said, "doing what again, I'm kindly asking that you treat me with some respect". He kept trying to make an arguement out of it and I tried my best to stop it. He said, "a friend doesn't come over uninvited". Huh? The day before we had discussed getting together when his sister flew in. He is also bothered that I come over to OUR house on very few occasions without his permission. Also, he is bothered by the fact that unlike him I tell others (my friends and family) the truth, that we are married. He also felt I invited myself to get together with him, his sister and mother when they go skiing on the holiday. When in truth I was planning on going on the same day and when he told me he was I suggested that we all go together which he thought was a good idea. According to him all my actions are nonsense and dramatic. He says he is leaving because I am dramatic however, I can do all the things above when, not if, he decides he wants to be married again. When? Why all the game playing? He is creating drama by being a man completely void of all moral fiber or compassion.
I am getting really sick and tired of his hot/cold attitude, him telling his family and friends lies about me and our relationship, trying to date behind my back, looking at porn and telling me what I can do and say. He even gave me a hard time about what I ate for lunch on Saturday. He has also given me a difficult time about how I spend money. Keep in mind I am the saver. He is spending his money pimping out his car. What rights do I have? I have no say in his life and apparently not in mine either. He appears to have no problem with 99% of the things I do and say, but then later tells me this, that and the other bother him. Please tell me how one goes from being put on a pedestal to someone who can't do anything right.
I have the intensive with Michele in less than three weeks, but I am afraid I might just flip out on him before them. I am simply not accustomed to be disrespected and taking it. I think he is particulary aggitated because his sister, and on Wed. his mom, will be visiting for two weeks. If I come around his lies about our sitch will fall apart.
Help please!
Hi, hopeful. Don't know the sitch, but imho, it's far easier to be angry and nitpick than it is for the WAS to be understanding and empathetic. It's their way of justifying their feelings and actions.
Try to let it go. It might in fact just be that your H is under some stress with his family visiting and all.
Good luck with the intensive. Take care.
Hi HiC,
I have the intensive with Michele in less than three weeks, but I am afraid I might just flip out on him before them. I am simply not accustomed to be disrespected and taking it. I think he is particulary aggitated because his sister, and on Wed. his mom, will be visiting for two weeks. If I come around his lies about our sitch will fall apart.
DO you think your H is going through some kind of crisis? If he is, his actions are not going to make much sense at times. Keep up the DBing for your own well-being, at least, if not for the R. I hope you are able to get through the intensive with your H, especially if you've already paid for it and if it's non-refundable. I am sure talking with Michele will be very helpful. If I were you, I would rock the boat as little as possible, with your H, to maiximize the chances of him attending the intensive.
PH,
Thank you. As I know everyone can relate to the fact that at times the stress of the sitch and our spouse's behavior can be overwhelming. At times I feel as if I am on the edge ready to jump. Jump right out of this sitch. The advice here helps to bring me down.
Your right. I don't want to risk him not attending the intensive and I don't want to give him a reason to resist Michele's advice once he is there. We were able to talk calmly later last night. I need to stop trying to take control of a sitch that is out of my control at the moment. That would be something different for me and after all I am trying to make positive and lasting changes. Old habits die hard.
Hi Hopeful...
Good job.
Just breathe into it.
I wouldn't worry about presents for anyone right now, esp. if finances are really tough......you could make a cake or cookies or something for the visitors.
Hang in there.
I just had a very scary sitch. I had to put the intensive our credit card because of some issues with my personal card (long story) and I didn't want to lose my spot. He saw it this morning, looked into it, completely lost it, and told me to cancel the trip and intensive. He said he is done with counselors and that she can't change his mind. I was able to calm him down and let him know that this is for my closure with the sitch. Um, excuse me but what marriage and family counselor only helps people work out their marriage they have to be able to help people to work through divorce if the marriage doesn't work out. He reagreed to go, but said the minute she starts talking about reconciliation he is walking out. I just had to get that off my chest. That was SCARY to say the least.
All I can do now is pray, pray and pray some more that God softens his heart.
Also I bought a book by his favorite author and some of his favorite candy with a simple card. I only wrote "happy valentines day love, tifani". I figured the love was ok since he still writes it to me in xmas and b-day cards. Too much? It isn't romantic at all.
Hey Hopeful,
That sounds like a good gift. It's seems pretty lowkey
and I believe it wouldn't cause any guilt.
On the same note, anyone think the book "The Walk Out Woman"
would be harmful to give to a relatively new WAW? I found it helpful to understand my WAW thoughts and would like to tell her that in a short note with the book.
guinness, If I were you, I would think very carefully before giving it to her. If you believe in God, pray for guidance in this. Remember that you probably know her better than anyone here, and try to put yourself in her shoes. Have you read Divorce Remedy and about pursuing? Also remember to avoid giving them advice as then they will try all the harder to convince you they are ok, or whatever is opposite of what you're telling them.
Thks hopeful.
Great Advice. I did go back and read that part in Chapter 6, Stop the Chase and LRT.
You are right. The more I think of it , the more I agree that it would be taken the wrong way.
Many thks for helping me to see it that way.
whew..close one..
have a great day.
How do I handle this sitch?
So my H's mom, sister and cousin (didn't know about the cousin coming) have been visiting over the last few weeks. Their visits have been staggered and his cousin is the last one to leave today. When she first arrived I came home to see that she was wearing my house slippers. Under a normal sitch this would not be a big deal, but this is on top of all the disrespectful things he has done in the past six months. So I ask where are my slippers. He says he has no idea. What am I am idiot they are on her feet. This was Thursday night.
This is the one that really got me. Apart from my full time job I am also an independent sales consultant for a makeup company.
Saturday I go into the guest bedroom where we have several things stored only to notice in plain view that several of my products are in her suitcase. I don't say anything. Yesterday I ask H, "have you seen my products, several are missing" and I go on to name the items I saw in her suitcase. She pretends to be ignoring the conversation, but I see her turn to him when she thinks I am out of the room and ask him about it. They say something in Greek I don't understand. This morning I notice that she has taken the care to hide the products under the lining of her suitcase. I go to H and say, "why are my products in there" and I point to the bedroom. He walks over to the bedroom and I leave because 1. No matter what his friends and family say or do I am the bad guy 2. We are going to the intensive on Friday and I don't want to make waves 3. I don't know who took it, but I do know that whether she knew or not at the time that it was wrong she knows now and has not only not come clean, but tried to hide the fact that she has them.
How do I respond to this. Either my H, SIL, or his cousing took the products and stole from my biz. This is BS. She is leaving today so I can't confront her and she will probably deny it if I bring it up to H. Or H will deny it if he took them. Point is I don't think that anyone will come clean particularly him if he took it, but stealing from my biz is NOT OK. I don't think I can or should let it slide. Am I wrong?
HiC,
Point is I don't think that anyone will come clean particularly him if he took it, but stealing from my biz is NOT OK. I don't think I can or should let it slide. Am I wrong?
You're right that it's wrong to steal from you. Think about whether bringing this up will negatively impact the outcome of your intensive on Fri. Perhaps, you can bring this up during your intensive (preferably privately between you and Michele). Just my 2 cents.
-PH
You're right. I don't want to do anything that will negatively impact our intensive. It is important for us to not have any negative interactions before the intensive or ever for that matter. Good idea about talking to Michele in private. It is difficult to think straight when you get emotional. Thx for the advice!!!
Thx SG. I am excited and nervous.
HiC, I can't wait to hear about your intensive... Good luck, and hang in there.
HiC,
I too am excited to hear about how the intensive goes. I am so happy for you that you have the opportunity to go with your H. Just stay focused on that day and be thankful that you and your H will be meeting with a world renowned counselor.
Unfortunately for me, I just received a brief letter from my wife asking about a couple of logistical items and then she closed with “sorry, I just can’t go to the counseling thing, it’s just too late for me, talk soon.”
She was referring to the intensive. I think you read a previous post of mine where W said she’d consider. This was during a month spell where we were actually getting along very well, although things were still very delicate.
So, a question for a former WAW (including you Saus); My wife and I are at a little over 8 months S now, just a few weeks ago she was saying things like “I’m just not sure what I want anymore” and “if I knew an alternative to divorce I’d pursue it, but my heart is so empty” and “if we’re going to make it I think we need a clean slate”…these statements were actually giving me a bit of hope because for a while she was very adamant about D and not waffling, but now I receive this letter with her wanting to revisit the mediation process and her stating that she’s just too far gone. At 8 months do you think she’s hit a point where maybe she is sure that she has found a better life, or is this one of those statements that I should just tuck away with all of the other ominous things she’s said and not worry about it? I suppose I shouldn’t be worrying about it regardless. I just wasn’t expecting it and it caught me off guard. Was very upsetting. Fortunately, I maintained my composure and avoided calling her and have now brought myself back down to earth.
Maybe bringing up the intensive was a major mistake that’s sent her running again???
Anyway, if you have any perspective to share related to where your heart was at 7-8 months of S I would love to hear about it. I know she doesn’t hate or despise me, but something’s keeping her from taking a chance on us again. Probably the OM? That’s the one thing that I’ve managed to avoid thinking and worrying about, but it does perplex me that she’s been able to maintain a R w/a co-worker for this long. Anyway, I've been doing a great job w/DB, but man I miss her sooooo much
and just having a down day, so had to ramble & vent a bit, so with that I’ll close.
PH and Brantacan,
Thank you so much for your well wishes.
Brantacan,
At the 7-8 mark I had no plans to reconcile with my H. Although I still cared for him I couldn't get passed the thought that things would never change between us. My fear was that I would return home only to find nothing had really changed. In addition, I just didn't know how to go back, how to make things work and felt that perhaps just too much had happened between us. In all honesty, it was just easier to walk away and admit defeat that to face my own problems. At the 9 month mark I realized that my expectations where unrealistic, that I had to take responsibility for my part in making our marriage unhappy, that I loved him, that I made a commitment, and that anything worth having in life was never going to be easy. Furthermore, I wasn't solving anything by walking away from my marriage, but rather taking a break from my problems until the next relationship.
In my opinion it is difficult for a spouse to see either sitch (meaning yours together and her's with the OM) for what they are when they are involved with someone else. Suddenly the LBS is this and that, all things horrible and the OP is perfect. Hopefully, she will see the reality of the sitch.
I don't believe that bringing up the intensive ruined anything. Now you know that she is not ready for counseling just yet. Keep on track with what works. She just has to see that your changes and the changes in your relationship are lasting. Again this is just my opinion, but her skepticism about your sitch and the OM are contributing to her reluctance. No matter what continue to be her friend. I am sorry for your pain and I continue to hope that your sitch will turn around.
HiC,
thanks for the response. it reminds me that I need to set more achievable, small goals. get back to the basics. I was making baby steps and then got overly confident. even though I know better, part of me is often stuck in that old mindset that one perfect conversation will win her back. it's tempting to want to fast forward when you have a few good interactions, but wise DB know to be cautious. thank God for the forum.
I am so glad that I at least made the decision to refrain from calling her when I received the letter. I was so angry and upset (because my expectations have been too high). I'm finally back in a relaxed, calm state and feel so good about allowing myself to ride the emotional wave rather than reacting irrationally with a desperate phone call...
stay focused and keep a positive outlook as you approach your intensive w/Michele. we're all pulling for you!
brantacan how do you keep in touch with your spouse with no children?
PR,
It has primarily been to discuss logistical issues. Prior to Thanksgiving we were meeting every couple of weeks to grab a coffee and just chat. Then we'd see each other to do things like separate the bank accounts, or for her to get some things from the house, etc.. Then around Thanksgiving she became adamant about D, so we started the mediation process. On the advice from my DB coach and from another program I did early on in the separation, I learned that the D process is an opportunity to connect w/my W. Not the ideal circumstance, but didn't have many other options. She didn't really want to get together otherwise. So, I just dropped the rope so to speak or stopped resisting and just became a friend to her. There were no R talks. I just accepted that we had to do this.
After a handful of get togethers we started getting along better, but at the same time we were getting close to finishing up the paperwork associated with the mediation process. So I reached a point where I had to let her do the remainder of the leg work. I wasn't going to be the one to put the final nail in the coffin, nor did I want to help pay for the D. Instead of just backing off for a bit and giving things a little break I felt the urge to talk about it and expressed this to her and it led to a serious R talk. I should have never brought it up, because she actually stopped talking about the D and stopped pushing to get it done. I just got anxious. We met one more time to do taxes a few weeks ago and the day went very well, but unfortunately I backslid and went into another R talk !!!and that's when I brought up the intensive. She said some things (mentioned in previous post) that gave me some hope, but I think the pain of reliving the hurt over the past couple of R talks has caused her to retreat, and I have barely had any contact over the past 3 weeks. She sent me a gift for my B-day which was Valentine's day (very neutral gift, nothing romantic), and then I received the brief letter yesterday that said "it's just too late for me" (described in detail in previous post) and also asked if i've had a chance to finish up my portion of the mediation paperwork...
so, now I'm kind of stuck again. do i just send her the mediation paperwork and put this into her hands, or back off for a while and see what she does next. I don't like the idea of going dark, but I also want to avoid another backslide...
part of me is often stuck in that old mindset that one perfect conversation will win her back. it's tempting to want to fast forward when you have a few good interactions, but wise DB know to be cautious. thank God for the forum.
I understand. This has been my problem as well. I become anxious when things are going well and I use to think that there was one perfect conversation to win him back (some books will claim this is so). I soon realized these thoughts and actions set me back. My marriage didn't take a turn for the worse in one conversation so it certainly isn't going to make a turn for the better in one.
Sounds like you are back on track and you know what works. Do you have a telephone coach? If so, what does he or she say about going dark? I think you may want to share time together other than just mediation and everyday things in order to build your friendship. By getting along with her in these sitches just shows her that you can have an amicable divorce, but you want to show her that you can rebuild your relationship. Have you invited her to do things you know that she likes to do or something new that she is interested in him. Best wishes.
Unfortunately I had to cut back on the phone sessions due to finances (even though I am willing to break the bank with the intensive???). I've been left w/a fat mortgage to pay for by myself (i'm sure many of us are in that boat). Anyway, probably need to re-think this and get back in touch w/coach. Again, back to the basics. The intensive in my sitch is analagous to that "one perfect conversation" and i've been too focused on getting us to Michele.
anyway, to answer your question about inviting her to do other things, yes I have to a degree. Movie, dinner, walk w/the dogs...but she declines. Says she can't be doing stuff w/me like that when she's seeing somebody else. That was also her initial response to the intensive invite: "I can't go out of state w/you for a weekend when I'm in another relationship, that's just not appropriate", but then said she'd consider. I've managed to bite my tongue in these situations, but it makes my blood boil. She is obviously still clinging to OM and probably fears that taking a chance on me again could be too risky (i.e. could lose me and OM). She's admitted recently (last R talk)that her and I are way more compatible and a better fit and have much more in common; so I'm guessing he's obviously wooing her in the romance dept right now. He's been divorced twice, has an exW that wants him back, and 2 kids (that my W is not super fond of). So, I just don't get it???? Maybe it's not about either of us (me or OM). Maybe W is struggling w/something else that I'm just missing.
I am going to follow your posts to see what happens. I do hope things work out for you in the end. I am not good on giving advice so I'll let others do that but I wish you well.
I certainly understand about finances. I haven't talked to my coach in sometime, but seeing Michele is my sort of LRT.
Says she can't be doing stuff w/me like that when she's seeing somebody else. That was also her initial response to the intensive invite: "I can't go out of state w/you for a weekend when I'm in another relationship, that's just not appropriate", but then said she'd consider.
I was blown away by her comments. What about that it is inappropriate for her to be dating when she is married. On the bright side it sounds as if she has some realization that you are the better choice. Try inviting her to do something new rather than movies and dinner. Try something that she is interested in but would never expect you to do and if she doesn't want to go then go anyway and have good news to report when you do talk to her about what you are doing without sounding as if you are doing it to get her attention. Take comfort in the small things. Hang in there!
I've got your intensive on my radar. Saying a prayer. I hope you also have fun!
Ok the comment about it not being appropriate?? Weird how they can crush you but are afraid of hurting the other person. But you seem to be doing at lot of things correctly. I am keeping my fingers crossed for you.
I was reading your post,wow is all i could come up with.i have been reading a lot of posts.But this one gave me more insight then all the rest combined!Thank you so much for writing this.my wife also just walked away from me and kids.Wish more people in your shoes would post here.Anyways I admire you determination to repair your marriage.I hope you really get your wish.Thanks for replying to Brantacan,that must have been kind of hard for you.Thanks very much,Take care
Tomcat,
I haven't read your posts just yet.
I was reading your post,wow is all i could come up with.i have been reading a lot of posts.But this one gave me more insight then all the rest combined! Thank you so much for writing this.
That is one heck of a compliment. Thank you so much. This site has been a saving grace for me. Everyone has been so giving and encouraging and I hate to see the pain on this board. So I hope that I can provide the slightest bit of insight into what goes through the mind of a WAS. I wish you the best for your sitch!
HiC, How did your intensive go? Have been thinking about your intensive.
-PH
PH,
I was hoping for the best, but trying not to be naive about what to expect. In the first half of the session my H admitted to things that up until now he had refused to admit. Amongst them were that our therapist not only was unhelpful, but made our sitch worse (i.e. letting us argue at every session without ever attempting to solve the issues that caused conflict and supporting my reluctance to move back in); that he understood why I left and did not come back when he asked; that our childhoods were poor examples of healthy relationships; and that knowing all of these things and with the right therapist our marriage could be saved. I felt a small bit of hope with these admissions. In the end he held his ground that the D is what he wanted.
I still have hope that the intensive planted a seed of doubt about D being the solution that he may realize in the days, weeks or months to come. Michele and I talked about my plan of action which included to let him know that I wasn't holding out hope for reconciliation, that I would still need time to come to terms with the D and I wanted to continue to work on our friendship.
It is too early, I think, to say if the intensive will mean the difference between us getting back together or not. I still believe, however, that it was worth every penny. Michele is great! With Michele's help, a new plan and lots of prayer I believe that my marriage can be saved.
Thank you so much for asking!
HiC,[quote=HOPEFULinCALI]PH,
I was hoping for the best, but trying not to be naive about what to expect. In the first half of the session my H admitted to things that up until now he had refused to admit. Amongst them were that our therapist not only was unhelpful, but made our sitch worse (i.e. letting us argue at every session without ever attempting to solve the issues that caused conflict and supporting my reluctance to move back in); that he understood why I left and did not come back when he asked; that our childhoods were poor examples of healthy relationships; and that knowing all of these things and with the right therapist our marriage could be saved. I felt a small bit of hope with these admissions. In the end he held his ground that the D is what he wanted.
It's wonderful that your H admitted these things. As Michele's book says, "only listen to half of what he says". Is it possible that he held his ground on the D out of pride? He still has a chance to change his mind later.
[quote]I still have hope that the intensive planted a seed of doubt about D being the solution that he may realize in the days, weeks or months to come. [quote] Good for you. Hope is a good thing. I would be surprised if the intensive didn't plant a seed of doubt. [quote]Michele and I talked about my plan of action which included to let him know that I wasn't holding out hope for reconciliation, that I would still need time to come to terms with the D and I wanted to continue to work on our friendship.
So you each had individual sessions with her?
It is too early, I think, to say if the intensive will mean the difference between us getting back together or not. I still believe, however, that it was worth every penny.
I agree it's too early. It will take as long as it needs to. Hope is good. I am sure it was worth the money. If I sum all my telephone sessions, they would probably cost the same or more.
Michele is great! With Michele's help, a new plan and lots of prayer I believe that my marriage can be saved.
I am so happy to hear your positive attitude and outlook. Hang in there.
PH,
I am so happy to hear your positive attitude and outlook. Hang in there.
Your encouragement as well as the other's here really helps me to maintain a positive outlook!
So you each had individual sessions with her?
After lunch we each met with her for about 45min and then came back together then she gave us her thoughts. We ended about an hour early (good thing because we made it to the gate as they were boarding) because there wasn't much discussion from us when we came back together. If I have learned anything I know that nothing I say will change his mind. He was the second to meet with her and I wanted Michele's words to be the last that he would remember. I didn't want to risk a negative interaction.
When we got home I went to get into my car to go home and he asked, "Aren't you coming inside?". I did in part to see my baby girl; a little yorkie named Ginger. We talked about her during the session and I started to cry. Anywho, I digress. Once in the house I sat him down, thanked him for coming with me to the intensive, and began to tell him what Michele suggested. He seemed willing to really work on the friendship. As I left he gave me a hug, a kiss on the cheek, and said that we should take these trips more often.
One thing that did baffled me is that he asked me to stay in the home that we own together when he goes to the CHP academy in September. Um if you file won't we be divorced by then, was the thought that crossed my mind. Also he gave no good reason why the divorce hasn't completed if he filed in September
as he told Michele. Yup, the papers are still in his glove compartment as of last night, unfiled.
Another thing that I discussed yesterday was making him think I am "up to something". In otherwords make him jealous without actually dating someone. I suppose this would be one of those "act as if" situations.
Any suggestions PH or anyone?
HiC,
Once in the house I sat him down, thanked him for coming with me to the intensive, and began to tell him what Michele suggested. He seemed willing to really work on the friendship. As I left he gave me a hug, a kiss on the cheek, and said that we should take these trips more often.
One thing that did baffled me is that he asked me to stay in the home that we own together when he goes to the CHP academy in September. Um if you file won't we be divorced by then, was the thought that crossed my mind. Also he gave no good reason why the divorce hasn't completed if he filed in September as he told Michele. Yup, the papers are still in his glove compartment as of last night, unfiled.
It sounds as if he isn't sure about filing for D. This is good for you. All the more reason to DB very carefully.
Another thing that I discussed yesterday was making him think I am "up to something". In otherwords make him jealous without actually dating someone. I suppose this would be one of those "act as if" situations.
I would think very carefully before doing this. It's possible it'd backfire. It's one thing to get a life by keeping busy and having a good decent time, but it might give him the "licence" to go dating himself if he thinks you are.
-PH
HiC:
thanks so much for sharing with us. i new you were going to the intensive, but didn't realize it just happened.
personally, i think how your H interacted with you when you got home (i.e. inviting you in) and the statement he made about taking more trips like that one, leads me to believe he has some doubts. in addition, he has delayed in filing. just play it cool though and continue to work on the friendship. you guys probably got everything out in the open w/Michele, so I would say to follow his lead and just be a good friend right now. anything more right now, especially after an intense therapy session like that one, might push him further away. being in the LBS role right now, and having been here for approaching 9 months, i have periods of anger and resentment. sometimes I feel like all the effort I put in will amount to nothing and feel like letting go for good; and I'm sure your H reached a point in his DB efforts where he just had to let you go and now feels upset/angry for having gone through all of that. i doubt he's doing it intentionally, but to a degree he is almost being vindictive/spiteful on a subconcious level. Just hang in there though, I sense his heart is softening a bit.
I personally don't like the idea of intentionally attempting to make somebody jealous. If that's your intent and it backfires then you're setting yourself up for disappointment, whereas if you continue to GAL and pursue things that are truly making you happy and doing them for your benefit, you've put yourself in the best possible position to lead a fulfilling life no matter what happens. It just seems controlling to do something with the intent of making somebody jealous and then it just becomes one more potential conflict and issue that will have to be resolved. Anyway, my two cents. You ultimately have to be the one to decide, so just make sure you really think it through.
Thanks again for all of the insight you've provided in this forum. I know you're helping a lot of LBSs.
PH and Brantacan,
Thank you guys! I too fear that making him jealous will give him the green light to begin to take the flirting to a new level, but I was surprised to find that M thought it wasn't all that bad of an idea to make him think that something was up.
Brantacan,
I began to realize a few months ago the pain and anger that the LBS feels toward the WAS. I am beginning to wonder if I can forgive my husband for all the cruel things he has said to me and about me or all the things he has done to me, particularly behind my back. I never did any of these things, but he feels the need to be especially cruel and seems to have misplaced or broke his moral compass. Maybe I should put up some flyers in the neighborhood...lost, Husbands moral compass. Nevertheless, I did hurt him first. And afterall what am I doing all this work for just to go back to old patterns of unforgiveness. It is something I will have to do.
This process definitely takes patience. Just keep hope. Keep an open mind and heart. Regardless of the path of your sitch I would hate to see the anger get to you. Part of why my marriage is where it is now is because I could not forgive my parents for my childhood and I could not forgive my husband for his mistakes. Anger is an emotional burden we can't afford. Keep in mind that sometimes, such as in my case, you can go with months without change and as suddenly as your sitch went bad it can take a turn for the best.
HiC and others:
I highly recommend Eckhart Tolle's A New Earth, Awakening to Your Life's Purpose. Somebody gave me this book about 6 months ago and I shelved it for some reason. Just didn't have an interest. Saw that Oprah was promoting it the other day and now a lot of hype surrounding it, so gave it a shot. Finished in 2 days.
He briliantly discusses the ego and how it's the cause of all of our pain and suffering. And more importantly, ways to break free from your ego (my very general interpretation). Anyway HiC, your last paragraph made me think of recommending the book. Very applicable to all of our sitch's. I'd be curious to get your feedback if you choose to read it (or anyone else's for that matter).
Brantacan,
Thanks for the recommendation. I read some of the many lengthy reviews about the book on a popular website and it sounds right up my alley and in line with the some of the personal transformation I am trying to make. I just may pick it up today and I will give you my feedback.
I'm glad you went...I knew you would like Michele. I believe in you Hopeful!
Wishing you every success!!!
SG,
Michele is amazing. I could tell just from the day that we had with her that she is different than all the therapists and counselors I have met. And I have met many. I learned more with her in that day than in all the years with other therapists. It is a shame that more people don't know of her. The D rate would surely drop. Move over Dr. Phil.
I wish we knew her when we first started having problems. He said the same thing too. What is frustrating about the sitch is that he admitted that with the right we could get back on track. How can you walk away knowing that??? Yes there are some couples that just can't work things out, but he knows that we are not one of them.
As always thx for the support. Hey, BTW you are doing a great job!
That means more to me than you know right now. Thanks.
I just can't imagine anyone who meets her not at least giving it the old college try.
Thank for all your wonderful posts and for helping the newbies.
Thanks for sharing your intensive...I want to go but don't know if $ or WAW will.
and that knowing all of these things and with the right therapist our marriage could be saved.
quite an admission...I'd consider that positive...
Michele and I talked about my plan of action which included to let him know that I wasn't holding out hope for reconciliation, that I would still need time to come to terms with the D and I wanted to continue to work on our friendship.
I'd have a hard time saying that knowing I felt something different...How do you juggle such feelings/thoughts? I wonder how many LBS need to show their WA's that they aren't holding out hope...I imagine it applies to me...
Thanks for sharing your intensive...I want to go but don't know if $ or WAW will.
I knew that my husband would likely never be receptive to going back to a therapist. So that is not always the best measure. For me it was about planting a seed of doubt. I broke the bank on this one and either way I feel it was worth it, and I am a saver. Your wife still sounds a little hostile right now. Anytime before reducing the hostility is not a good time. She will just see it as pressure. Michele can give you advice on how to approach her if she is unreceptive.
HiC: and that knowing all of these things and with the right therapist our marriage could be saved.
jmw: quite an admission...I'd consider that positive...
Thanks! I sure hope so. At first I tried time and time again, without success, to get him to understand that we had the wrong therapist. So I hope this is the beginning of him thinking realistically about out sitch.
Hic: Michele and I talked about my plan of action which included to let him know that I wasn't holding out hope for reconciliation, that I would still need time to come to terms with the D and I wanted to continue to work on our friendship.
jmw: I'd have a hard time saying that knowing I felt something different...How do you juggle such feelings/thoughts? I wonder how many LBS need to show their WA's that they aren't holding out hope...I imagine it applies to me...
I know this is what is best for my marriage and I see the results of taking pressure off of him. It also helps you to detach. Michele suggested that by telling him I wasn't holding out hope that he would allow himself to open up to me. I also know this is true because that same night when we talked after the intensive he told me that he would give me the cold shoulder because he thought I was still holding out hope. By giving me the cold shoulder he was trying to send me the signal, hey don't get too comfortable.
I understand. Detaching is a work in progress for me, some periods of time much better than others. Perhaps my WAW got some messages of me not holding out hope by making decisions based on me and 5D, my 180's for me, etc..but telling WAW that when 5d and I go somewhere and we do our holding hands thing there is always one hand missing doesn't exactly show not holding onto hope. So, perhaps I can show not holding onto hope by doing somethings differently...
I really appreciate the thought. Not going to say I am not holding onto hope unless absolutely necessary, I am just going to do what I can to demonstrate it.
Detaching is a ongoing process. Without a doubt you should hold onto hope. For the longest time I thought by detaching I was giving up hope but I am realizing slowly but surely that you can detach and still hold onto hope. My therapist recently gave me a copy of a chapter from a book about codependence. At first I thought why is she giving this to me, I am not codependent. But in reading the chapter I realized that it applies to anyone who is having a difficult time detaching. Detaching not only in my sitch but in life is something I am working to overcome. I understand that worrying or trying to control a person or problem will not only not change it but it will drive me crazy.
you can detach and still hold onto hope.
Think my biggest problem is just not thinking about things...guess that isn't detaching.
Regarding codedependence, my sister recommended me going to a group b/c of my mother's drinking issues...she told me how it would help learn to deal w/ mother, also meet some people, and I suppose, after reading your post, would help in my sitch w/ WAW as well. Thanks for reminding me.
jmw,
It depends on what exactly you are thinking or worrying about. I think we could all benefit from a greater understanding of detachment. If you are thinking about how to improve yourself and all that good DBing stuff no problem. Even if you are thinking about your spouse, I would be worried if you weren't just a little because we are human and do love our spouses, I don't see that as a problem either.
If you are constantly worried or trying to control the sitch then you aren't detached.
I think we could all benefit from a greater understanding of detachment.
isn't that the truth...
your post is so helpful, most of what I am thinking about WAW is no big deal, nothing controlling, angry, blah blah...however I do worry/overly-consider how she will react to simple things. And that is just unnecessary grief I put on myself.
Hello Ms. Hopeful...
Thank you for sharing what you've learned on your journey to date and your intensive with Michelle. I'm still bewildered with my situation but truly appreciate how others evolve.
*hugs*
I agree...you are so helpful, Hopeful!
HiC - in some of your posts, sometimes directed at me, you described your R with you now WA as in stage 2 of friendship. How do you know when you get there? As an illustration of my question, my WAW and I communicated in someway, six times, this past weekend, with it being positive or definitely non-negative everytime. However, when I told WAW about my truck breaking down and didn't get any sleep can we adjust plan whatever, she didn't ask any obvious question like what happened, are u ok, blah blah, I guess show interest in me...is this part of the process/steps? Is this when I know we are starting stage 2, when she shows interest in simple things about me?
JMW,
That is great that your interactions were positive or non-negative. I knew that we had moved into stage 2 when he would invite me to do things or would accept my invites to do things. For example, he invited me to lunch two times this weekend and we ended up going to dinner last night. He does ask questions about me sometimes but mostly just "how are you doing?"
I take more of an interest in his life than he does in mine, but for us that is the way it has always been. If she took an interest in your life when you were friends before then that would be a sign to look for and part of your goal setting. Because she wants space and may want to avoid you asking too many questions about her she may avoid asking questions about your life. Creating mystery and having exciting things to report, without giving away too much, could spark her interest in what you are doing with your space.
I noticed in your thread that you said she is sharing more unnecessary information with you. That makes me think that you are moving toward Stage 2 because she is opening herself up to you. My husband didn't do this in Stage 1, didn't engage in conversation and kept interactions as brief as possible.
Thanks so much hopeful, things are definitely a bit different. We had a 20 minute conversation where she talked at least 15 of it. Keeping dog, etc...when I told her I was out all night and real tired she said "oh really" definitely some sort of interest. I then told her truck broke but she had no question of why out to begin with...or 5D bathing the other day taking long time I said I think I am to blame for that and she said "just like her daddy"...
Having blabbed about all that...I am not getting invites. That would to me fell like moving into stage 3. And perhaps her also. I'd love to have the conversations you describe but I do feel I need to wait before I try to call for these kind of conversations. She is not asking "how are you doing" yet...
I did mention an event 5D is going to be involved in and parents asked to attend...WAW will be out of town, but she was very interested and asked details like where, when, and this could be a sign toward stage 2.
Anyhow, thanks so much for the insight...it's very helpful and gives me something to look for and to look-forward to.
So, what have you been up to? Are you squarely in stage 2 or are you leaning toward stage 3?
Since the intensive I have been leaving it up to him to contact me. I was surprised that he attempted on sat. and sun. to spend time with me. I plan on beginning coaching again b/c we are squarely in stage 2. He is having knee surgery on Fri which I will take him to and pick him up from. I am hoping that this will be an opportunity to nudge us closer to stage 3. A few months ago when mentioning that he would need surgery I said that I could help him out, but he said that he would be fine however, when he had surgery on his other knee for the same problem he was OOC for weeks. Thanks for asking!
Seems different to me...before no help, now he wants your help...definitely positive...and taking him...that's great.
I tried asking to get WAW mail while she was gone...she said "no thanks, it's not a big deal, I don't get that much mail anyhow." I said, "just wanted to offer, have fun on your trip, I know you'll have a great time." Maybe next time I can get the knee...I mean mail...lol. I do get to keep the dog...
I am hoping that this will be an opportunity to nudge us closer to stage 3.
I can think of nothing more loving than for one to take care of another...so if he wants you to help out at all, such as taking/picking up, maybe help when he is home...I think that is a huge positive. Especially, if he wants you to do just about anything for him when he is home.
Jmw,
I hope that you are right
This is a lesson for me in PMA. Shortly after our 1st separation I became really sick for a few weeks and he waited on me hand and foot and, while I was grateful, it didn't turn me around.
Here goes the PMA. I think it didn't affect me because this wasn't "something different" while be taking care of him will be "something different".
Our puppy is a good excuse too. Because our puppy is especially needy he will not be able to attend to her and will realize that he needs me to at least take care of her. It will be a good thing for him to know that I care. And it is great that he wants me to help.
Thanks for the encouragement.
Shortly after our 1st separation I became really sick for a few weeks and he waited on me hand and foot and, while I was grateful, it didn't turn me around.
mine wouldn't let me...I just noticed she was not feeling well. And she acknowledged...still early in stage 1, so that kind of help definitely not wanted. I would have done the hand, foot, etc...and I imagine no difference then either...
Our puppy is a good excuse too.
Interesting you say that because it an interesting variable that I noticed also. Did he have the puppy before 1st knee? If so, you'll definitely have an opportunity to see a difference...if not I am curious what he wants you to do...It is still helping him and I think that's great, if you get your chance. My WAW is visitiing her brother out of state. She has gone and visited family during holidays or whatever before and took the dog with her, boarded it, had someone take care of it or whatever...this time I was asked to keep the dog blah blah...it's something different, who knows what it means...but it is definitely something different for you to notice.
mine wouldn't let me...I just noticed she was not feeling well. And she acknowledged...still early in stage 1, so that kind of help definitely not wanted. I would have done the hand, foot, etc...and I imagine no difference then either...
Would that have been a 180 for you or?
Interesting you say that because it an interesting variable that I noticed also. Did he have the puppy before 1st knee? If so, you'll definitely have an opportunity to see a difference...if not I am curious what he wants you to do...It is still helping him and I think that's great, if you get your chance.
That reminds me that he did say this weekend, when I asked about the dog, that SHE wanted to know when I was going to visit and that anytime was good for him. We talk about her like she is human...weird...I know. We didn't have the puppy when he had his first knee surgery and he needed a lot of help then so I imagine with a needy puppy he will soon want my help if he doesn't already (we haven't talked about it). I have to ask my coach, but I will suspect that if she finds it a good idea to help him out that I will have to make sure that it is seen as a "friendly" gesture and not as a wife.
yeah, perhaps me keeping my dog while she is visiting her brother out of state is a friendly gesture...she asked me. Who knows. I am curious if things will be different when she gets back...
I hope you get to wait on him hand and foot...like I said nothing more loving then that kind of opportunity.
If nothing else, looks like your going to get puppy time and that's something. Especially when he says
when I asked about the dog, that SHE wanted to know when I was going to visit and that anytime was good for him.
Anytime...that's nice to know...kind of like free invite(s). Use them wisely...
gl2u
yeah, perhaps me keeping my dog while she is visiting her brother out of state is a friendly gesture
Michele said to look out for signs of him opening up to much, such as this. To him it is a friendly gesture, she says, but he is allowing me to get closer to him.
He still hasn't filed so that's a plus, but it is still frustrating to hear that it is over yet he hasn't filed so I am guessing something is holding him back. I wish he would wake up already. It's hard to believe the person that he has become.
T: 8yrs,
M:7,
Sep as WAW: 11/06 - 7/07,
H's 1mo. trip: 8/07,
Bomb: 9/07,
Sep as LBS: 12/07 - present
Michele said to look out for signs of him opening up to much, such as this. To him it is a friendly gesture, she says, but he is allowing me to get closer to him.
that's kind of what I was thinking...hard not to feel this is something different on her end. Never know. Just like your dog sitch...lol
I wish he would wake up already.
I heard that. WAW text me earlier with her basic(it is a text) plans and included hope I am having a good week and asking 5D schedule question. So, I got to call her. Told her to be careful and she queried me about my dead truck. Why is it dead? Why? lol...wish she would wake up, too...
Just so weird having friendly interactions yet knowing we cannot reach out to hold their hand...
gl2u
Just so weird having friendly interactions yet knowing we cannot reach out to hold their hand...
Frustrating doesn't begin to cover it, but it sounds like you are making good progress. I struggle with not getting ahead of myself when I see positive signs, but I have gotten much better as the months go on.
FYI: I started a part 2 to this topic.
Hopeful -
Wow, I have been following this thread and thought it was time to comment. I have a WAW. She gave me D papers the day before Valentine's. Now it's been 4 weeks since I received those. I would take her back in a heartbeat; but the longer she's away, the harder it is to think of taking her back so easily. Through all this, the LBS is trying to make themselves better and to forget the hurt. Without trying, I notice myself getting angry that she just doesn't come back. So, I can see after more and more time where it gets harder for the LBS to just welcome the WAS back with open arms. They kind of feel like "You hurt me so bad and I am just supposed to forget about that?"
In all honesty, I would try my best to do that; but I know it would be very hard the more time has passed. I just try patience and love to get me through the days. Somedays aren't very good and this is one of them for me. I wish you the best and will continue to follow your story!
jaw,
Thanks for stopping by. I am sorry to hear your pain. I haven't read your threads yet, but I will stop by to offer my support. It saddens me to see the anger that builds as time goes by. When first experiencing it from my husband I couldn't understand it, but since finding this board and becoming the LBS myself I can certainly understand the pain and anger my husband feels. I sometimes wonder if I can forgive my husband once he comes to his senses and returns. Just yesterday out of nowhere I began to remember all the hurtful things that he has done and said (both to me and our friends and family). Initially I will be overjoyed, but once the dust settles will I be able to forgive and trust him again?
With that being said, whether or not to forgive my husband is not an if rather a when. Forgiveness is not only for my marriage, but FOR MYSELF and for the people in my life both present and future. I give reasons for this in another thread. Link below "
Forgiveness". Also I have started part 2 to this thread since you wanted to continue to follow.
ForgivenessThanks!!!
I wish you the best of luck
Thread continues in Part 2.