My wife and I have had a bad year, her more than me.
In April 2007 a business we were trying to sort out went wrong
She then had an investigation at work that could have ruined her career
She then broke her coccyx
One of her clients died in her arms and because of this another potential career flushing
Her dad has been unwell
She had a new boss who was not nice to her.
I have sufered from depression and basically have not supported my wife, have taken her for granted and not done my part in our relationship for the last 6 months to a year. I love her very much but she wants a divorce.
On 22 January 08 She said she needs space and I left for a week to give her that space, came back and she said that the idea was to shock me but it has gone downhill.
She said she wanted a divorce on 2nd Feb 2008
She made us separate (same house) and I am in the spare room, she is very extreme at the moment and has got more so over the last 5 weeks.
She did bring up relationship problems in Oct/ Nov 07 but because I was depressed I did not react well to it and went more downhill.
She says that she doesnt love me, doesnt see a future with us and doesnt want to try any more.
She has not spoken to anyone about it including her parents apart from telling them that we are divorcing. Whenever she has seen her parents she collapses into tears. She had a fight with her sister when her sister questioned her about the decision and snapped at one of our friends when she asked if it was the right decision.
She also made her mum cry when her mum tried to speak with her Her parents are really distressed at the situation and all of our friends are shocked, I am basically a good guy and love my wife very much. Everyone knows I love her dearly and until recently she loved me too.
We have done great things together and have been very successful for our ages.
She has told me never to speak with her parents or twin sister and she has told them to never speak to me.
She says that she does not regard us as married and has not worn her wedding & engagement rings since the end of January, she said she is looking for someone else and feels like f8cking a 19 year old.
She is 32 in April 08 and I am 31 in May 08.
We have been together for 9.5 years and married for just over 4 years.
She has got a very vicious tounge and can be very spiteful and I am getting both barrels at the moment.
She is absolutely set and runs away whenever I push (I have stopped pushing)
She has some younger friends at work who she seems to spend quite some time with.
She has been smoking maruana and drinking quite frequently over the last 5 weeks. She has also been out quite a few times and stayed at her work friends and her sisters houses.
Her behaviour is a bit erratic such as putting the house on the market but paying some costs either when its sold or taken off the market. Saying she will stay away for several days but comming back after one nigh.
She had a first meeting with a divorce lawyer on 6th Feb then nothing happened, then due to me looking after her when she was very, very drunk on the 14th Feb (sorted her out when she was throwing up then lay with her to make sure she was ok)she went nuts in the morning and got the lawyer to write a letter to me warning me and saying divorce proceedings have been started but I have not had any letters through.
I have changed myself and taken steps to do so(you know when you change fundamentally)I have done all of the tidying up in the house.
I am working on myself and these forums have been helpful.
I love my wife dearly and really want to save our marriage but don't know what to do when she is so adamant and nasty. She refuses everything at the moment.
We do actually make a great couple
I have recently discovered DBing and will do it in earnest.
Our marriage and relationship is well worth saving and I love her lots, What can I do?!?
Any help or guidance or advice appreciated.
I understand and feel the pain of you others out there, it is terrible.
Thanks all
Gavin
Anyone?
I don't know but I would have thought that she would have spoken to someone about divorce possibly even just her parents or just her mother, also she is not talking to anyone at all. Is this 'normal'?
As stated any guidance from wiser people is appreciated.
I love my wife dearly and really want to save our marriage but don't know what to do when she is so adamant and nasty. She refuses everything at the moment.
The key sentence is that she refused everything at the moment. So you've been suggesting do this or that (marriage counseling, going out, etc)? If so, stop. She won't do anything for this marriage until she's ready.
Your first step is to diffuse this anger of hers. She won't see past it. How to do that? Give her space and remove any pressure. Don't be obviously hung up on her and don't go overboard trying to initiate conversations, etc.
While you are giving her space, give yourself permission to focus on yourself. Find activities that you enjoy. Work on the issues that troubled your marriage. If you are depressed, go to the doctor and get some anti-depressants to help lift your mood. Don't let her see you broken. Be strong, confident, happy. I know this sucks, but it isn't the end of the world or the end of your life. Use this time where she's angry to better yourself. And try to hear her out without defending yourself.
Hi, thanks for the reply.
I am on antidepressants at the moment and have been for a couple of weeks, I have also been focussing on myself doing gym training, seeing a therapist and so on.
I am also aware of the issues that were there, I took her for granted and did not nurture our relationship. It has steadily declined over the last year and really bad the last 6 months (depression)
I am committed to saving our marriage as it is worth saving but it seems hopeless at the moment, why the thundering towards the divorce being nasty and so on (i'm nice so dont really understand nasty especially to somone you love). She is even packing some things.
She has always said she woudl only marry once, that I was the one and she does not believe in divorce but here we are (or there we are going).
I am ready to move forward, I have grown up somewhat as I do all the housework at the moment, she has done none (I have no problems with this) its just the reconnecting with each other but I am getting stonewalled all the time and have done over the last 5 weeks.
Any suggestions of how I can get her open to the possibility of us sorting things out? I have decided (rather than hope) to make our relationship fantastic if we get there.
Its just getting there.
Keep moving forward for yourself. Do not push her to do anything at all. Let her make the moves. I think she is being extremely nasty to you because she is still trying to sort out what she wants and how she feels. Let her have the time.
Keep working on yourself. Make yourself worth while. Be positive... SMILE!!! you will get through this. Keep going.
Any suggestions of how I can get her open to the possibility of us sorting things out?
That's the problem; you CAN'T get her open to anything. Basically, you can't make her do anything. She's in independent mode and will resent any of your attempts to control the situation. You can only hope that she at some point becomes open to the possibility of sorting things out. That doesn't mean you can't indirectly influence her. You can show her someone that she'd be crazy to leave.
I do all the housework at the moment, she has done none
This is fairly classic. The guy suddenly switches gear and becomes Mr. Do everything. I personally think it's a little overboard. It comes across as too much in her face. And, just like her, you shouldn't have to do everything. You can continue to do things around the house, but I'd slack off of it a bit. Find some activities outside the house. Did you say whether you have kids? If you do, then spend quality time with them. If you don't, then pick a couple days a week where you get out of the hostile environment of the house. You need to recharge your batteries if you want to be in this for any length of time. Rediscover old friendships and interests. If you don't have friends, find some group to belong to or do some stuff for yourself. It's okay to tell her that you are going to something, and casually ask, "wanna come?", but go anyway if she isn't interested. Don't let her wear you down with her anger.
I will keep hanging in there, thanks for the advice.
We don't have kids but we do have a cat
it has been 5 weeks so far of steadily getting worse, vindictive and angry.
My parents advocate giving her a shock somehow by offering to buy her out so giving her the keys to escape, though I don't want to take the risk at the moment as she is likely to take the cash and run. I need time,
Anyone got a magic wand handy?
Thanks for the advice, any further guidance is welcome
Gavin,
No ploys. First, it's not what you really want, so why do it? Second, be true to yourself. Become a better person, yes, but don't become someone you are not just for her. There may come a time when you just can't take anymore of this. Sometimes being together in the same house is just too much. Although it may be too soon, it may actually be preferable for you to be the one that suggests she leaves rather than she be the one that either suggests you leave or that leaves you. But that's down the road. Just try giving her space in the house, even if you need to vacate it a couple nights a week.
Hi Gavin, you have come to the right place. I'm in no position to give advice, but I do know that the best thing you can do is just work on yourself. Doing 180's and stuff like that. I assume you are reading the books. They are very helpful. So are the people here. There are lots of us here standing for our marriages. We know what you are feeling and that it is hell. Good luck and God bless.
Hi Gavino,
Listen, this poor girl has had enough shock in her life the past year.
My parents advocate giving her a shock somehow by offering to buy her out so giving her the keys to escape
From everything you told us, she has had a hell of a time and you were not there for her. My personal advice is to show stability and strength.....not shock treatment.
I think she is trying to escape her life. Well, who wouldn't want to escape! Look what she has been through. One of the reasons that I turned to OM was that my life sucked so badly that I wanted to escape. I wanted to rebel and become totally opposite from what I had always been. I also wanted a knight to come save me from all my dispair. That is what she is looking for.
She is trying to run from all the mess that has happened to her lately. You may have no choice except to give it time to run its course. In the meantime, take these other folk's advice about working on yourself. I know how it feels when the H is not there for you. I also know what it's like to have depression, so I'm not trying to be mean to you. Hope you can try to hang in there and not move on without her in your life too quickly. Have lots of patient. Don't give in to a D easily....by that, I mean don't just give it to her to get it over with b/c she could change her mind. She is very hurt, confussed and sounds like she could be on the edge of a nervous break-down. I hope her family will be there for her and help her.
Keep coming back. We care.
Sandi
She stayed away last night as she had a drink but came back this morning.
She said that she doesn't want to try anymore and she doesnt love me, also that she wants to go pubbing and clubbing but without me.
She also asked me how I was doing, was my work ok and so on, also that she told the estate agent to do viewings and so on during the week when I was at work so as not to upset me.
She says I am not accepting that its over.
I said marriages are hard work and she said not this hard.
She said that marrying me was the easyist thing she has ever done and this divorce is the hardest thing she has ever done.
I don't know what to do, I love my wife more than anything. I also believe she loves me as well
What do I do, what can I do. Is it all words or does she mean it? I dont know and I am lost.
GavinO, I don't think she really means all of those words. She is trying to get away from the pain of everything she has experience and she doesn't know what to change or how to make it stop hurting, so she is chosing to live a different lifestyle and to leave her M. Of course, she is jumping out of the skillet into the fire, but she will have to find this out the hard way. That is what concerns me about her mental health. I really wish she would get into counseling just for herself.
As far as what you can do.....well, of course you can't apply any pressure by begging her to stay or showing any weakness in front of her. You may just have to let her go and hope that soon she will see her mistake and want to return. If you think she is valuable enough to do this and you think you will want her back, then set her free. Work on yourself to be the best you can be, so when she sees you, she will like what she sees and hopefully want the man she married back again.
Good luck and God bless. I hope all works out positive for you.
Keep coming here for advice and encouragement.
Sandi
One of the things that I see repeated all around here and other places is the phrase "believe none of what is said, and only half of what is done". This is true in what I have found so far. Actions speak louder than words. You can talk all day and none of it will mean anything. Show her that you have improved but DO NOT get up in her face about it. It seems as if she is very sensitive about things right now. I agree that 'shocking' her is not a good idea. That will just drive her away.
Take your time. Do not push. Whatever you do, do not push her or crowd her. By some of the things you have described, there may be feelings still there but hidden behind her confusion. Just give her time.
If anybody gives you advice that seems less than honest... I would recommend not doing it. Be honest. No deception.
Gavin,
You mention it has been worse these last five weeks and also that she has being taking 'soft' drugs in the same time period. Surely there is likely to be a correlation here?
I have spoken to my parents and they have said that it is not over and I should stop acting as if it is. If she really wanted it over then she would have left and stayed at her parents and just sent me solicitors (Lawyers) letters. They have pointed out that:
She still comes home
She tells me where she is going and when she will be back
She still talks to me
She still shows concern for me
She seems to have got somewhat over the angry stage
They say that I should listen to her and what she is saying, they also say that I need to accept (or pretend to)what she wants. They say that she wants the old Gavin back (I am a lesser man than I was say 2 years ago) and that I need to sort myself out and support her. They also say that there is still quite a bit of hope but if I remain the mess I am at the moment and remain the lesser Gavin then I will lose the chance. If I regain myself then there is a good chance.
They are saying that Clare (my wife) does not really want to give up someone who really loves her, the house we have, the friends we have and everything that we have done and could do together. Also that as I am willing and want to change for the better, it is more than most blokes will do. Why would she want to give that up?
Am I blind to the obvious?!? sorry I am a bloke and cr4p at communicating and listening as all blokes are and I am in a mess so can't see clearly.
I am confident that she does still love me and I of course love her, I realise that I love her much more than I ever thought I did.
Am I being silly and blind? Do I support her and hope she decides to stop (I can't make her stop of course)
Thanks for you help and support
Welcome Gavin..
It's not over til the fat lady sings!
Sayings and quotes that I never really understood make sense now.
"Why do you notice the splinter in your brother's eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye?"
Hello.. I have the worst time with anything my H says to me (he promptly moved out and initiated divorce proceedings 3 weeks after he said he had to live his own life). My own misery colors what is going on. He sent an informative text letting me know his plans while I was away. I cried because all I saw was how impersonal the message was and that he couldn't stand being anywhere near me.
After lifting the block of self centered emotion (helped by friends wielding 2x4's of common sense) I found the positive. He was keeping me informed, letting me know what was going on, it was very polite. I started to see the forest for the trees!
I'm working on taking the letting go, accepting the emotional mess of his departure and intent to D (my block) to listen to what he is saying AND take the time to improve myself.
Take a moment to read, to hear what is being suggested without the veil of hurt, helplessness. Relax your shoulders, breathe deeply and calm. Listen, listen listen.. no need to react.. listen..
*hugs*
Should I let go? and let her do her thing is that what I have to do?
It is difficult. Are there positives? why are they positive? how do i know its a positive rather than just being nice.
She said she has been trying for 2 years, I am just a bloke who loves his wife and has taken her for granted, been selfish and not shown that I appreciated and loved her or put effort in the relationship. I appear to have messed up severely but recognise that now.
I want nothing more than to look after her, cuddle her make her feel loved and cared for. I can guarantee that no one else in the world will ever love her as much as I do or will look after her as much as I will.
I have always given her 5+ back or foot massages each week thoughout our 9.5 year relationship for instance, I bet there are few people who do that. Though I know there is more to it than that and that is what I got wrong.
Still too many trees there for me at the moment.
Thanks for the help and support.
Should you let her go? If she wants to go.......for real, what could you do to stop her? On the other hand, don't open the door for her or help her pack her bags. You have got to study the DR book. It has the answers you are looking for. I don't know what you meant by the statement you are a lesser man now than you use to be, but you need to become the man she fell in love with. Everything the people here on the board have told you so far has been good advice. Listen and keep coming back.
Sandi
I chatted with my parents yesterday eve and they have told me that I have gone downhill over the last month. I'd agree as I was/am obsessed.
Interestingly the advice they gave was similar to the stuff here. They said that I need to stop focussing on the divorce as it has not happened yet, nothing has happened yet, but if I keep going the way I am then it will happen. If I sort myself out then there is a chance.
I have been speaking to friends too much and allowed it to dominate my life recently. Which my parents said is likely to piss her off.
They said that I need to become the man she married again as I am not at the moment, I am a mess.
They said that I should also listen to her as they believe that she is throwing lifelines and opening up.
She said that we are both finding it hard though for different reasons and I am not accepting it.
I will be pulling myself together for myself and for my wife. I just hope that I have not done too much damage.
W will be staying at her parents for a week around the 17th March, she also wants a holiday.
I love my wife
Gavin,
Can you see that what your parents are saying is actually very hopeful.
I know my H found it very hard to be with me when I was depressed - living with someone who is suffering from depression is not easy. I think your parents are daed on about saying you need to work on you. That's what saved my M - my H saw the changes. He complicated it by having an A as he was so miserable but basically he was willing to turn back to me because he saw how hard I was trying to change.
Has your W spoken to your parents much about how she feels?
Dig deep and do this.
BTW are you a fellow Brit?
No, my wife does not like my parents, one of the other pressures was that my parents were having issues with my 2 little sisters and kept asking for our opinions and help, which did not help us.
To be fair to W she has flagged issues with me/our relationship within the last year, Oct/Nov as stated and once again earlier in the year. I did not do anything (damn blokes eh?)
But fundamentally both W and me want the same things including a close, loving and friendly relationship. Though it is not happening at the moment
I have improved and changed over the last 5 weeks in many ways, though I still know that there is more to go. The main issue at the moment (apart from the impending/actual doom of our relationship) is that I did not show that I loved her but she will not let me get anywhere near her at the moment.
This is silly as i can accept the mistakes that I have made and i have changed and recognize what is important to me (W and our marriage) mine and my W's happiness is paramount. There is no real sense in throwing it away.
I am digging deep now and I am going to restrict my support to that from my parents and my aunt and this board. There is no need to burden our friends with this situation.
I want us to get over this and have a stronger relationship because of it, though she doesn't want to
Yes, I am a Brit Saffy, i live in the South of England, not far from Bournemouth.
Gavin,
When I was suffering from depression I was on AD's but then I started going to see a cognitive behavioural therapist. I was lucky that I had BUPA cover and so got to go immediately once I got GP referal - but you can get this through the NHS. It's something the Goverment are meant to be really promoting in the UK. It helped me loads. The C attached to my local GP practice was terrible - she was very old school and just wanted to keep raking up the past. I wanted strategies for helping me deal with things. I wanted to change my approach and behaviour. CBT is great at helping you adopt a more healthy approach to things.
A good book is 'Learned Optimism' by Martin P Seligman; he also wrote 'Authentic Happiness'. If you can, try and get a copy of Learned Optimism.
Once my H could see that I really was trying to sort myself out he was willing to meet me half way.
Keep at this, it sounds like you are trying the right things. Give it a bit of time. Your W needs to be able to see some changes and know they are for real.
My email is in my profile if you want to email me. I live in the Midlands, between Northampton and Milton Keynes, in a pretty rural area.
Just an aside really, but just in case you are tempted I would stay away from RELATE - I have only heard negative accounts from people that have tried to use them; they appear to be not particularly pro M which I found very strange - I am not sure how well qualified their staff are.
I have started an account with moodgym (www.moodgym.com (or.co.uk) which is computer based CBT, seems helpful.
W stayed out last night didn't go to a b'day that she was going to , she went 'somewhere else' and did drinking games & drank from 9:30 until 2:30-3:00am, she said she woke up at 8:00am but was not home until 12:00pm.
She also said that her parents were telling her grandparents about our divorce as W couldn't deal with it, her gran was distraught.
When she got home she started packing stuff up but she also came down and sat with me for a bit (opposite) while rolling some fags. She asked what I was up to today, asked me where the marriage certificate was as she couldn't find it. I believe she knows where it is as she asked me to look where it is actually kept, I of course have no intention of doing so.We also sat in silence (not uncomfortable) for a while while she rolled fags. She also asked if I wanted the wedding stuff as she didnt want it.
She also reminded me that it was mothers day tomorrow. Also she was going to stay at her parents this weekend but said she was likely to return home as it would probably be too hectic. She also said that she had better get this done (move books to her parents).
My parents think things are more positive as we are talking and there are no sharp edges or cross words, and that she is actually approaching me to talk with me, still keeping me informed and so on.
Everyone is rooting for me as I am a nice guy and have a lot going for me, it is also obvious that I love my wife more than anything.
I don't think we need relate or anything like that, i am aware of what I did wrong and want the opportunity to show I have learned from it.
I hope she will stop and allow us to rebuild.
thanks for all the replies, they all help. It is good to have the support and help from people who have gone through/going through/have stopped divorce as there are wiser people here than me.
Hey GavinO...
saffie gives good advice...Dig deep. You are a confident, strong, fit, put-together, cheerful man (act like it, whether you feel like it or not). It's time for you to get a life.
What are some solid actions that you can take this week that will make you more of "the man she married"? Do you know what she means, or is that just fluff talk?
What will you DO today to get you closer to your goal?
Hi Chery,
I have stopped going through the last few weeks and what went wrong to get us to here as I was not moving forward and grinding myself down.
I have resumed my physical training.
I am dressing tidier and nicer.
I am confident
I have stopped chasing W and being a wet fish.
I have removed the doom that I was/am feeling.
I am getting happier and liking myself more.
I am regaining my discipline.
I am digging deep, i believe i have come a long way in the last 5 weeks considering i was very depressed, then had the bomb and had a hard time.
Gavin,
You list sounds good and very positive
I am getting happier and liking myself more.
I particularly like this one - a hard one to do but very fulfilling.
Gavin, sounds like you are making positive steps for you. That is great. I hope that you can continue them. I know that it is discouraging, but keep at it.
your situation does have some positive points. Namely the communication. You stated that you thought it was not difficult to just sit there and that it was not uncomfortable. This is good. Your WAW's drinking and doing things to excess sounds dangerous. Let her sort that out herself. Did she have this type of extreme behavior before at any point?
Anyway, keep on going forward. You have a nice list of things. I think I am going to borrow a few of them for myself. Keep up the good work.
great job GavinO...
stay busy and focus on being the best you possible. So much more attractive.
What are you DOING when you are not being a "wet fish"? If I were watching you, what would you be doing instead? It's important to be specific in the affirmative, rather than just "not" doing something. Does that make any sense?
When you remove the gloom, what are you doing instead?
When you are not grinding yourself down, what are you doing instead?
Do you understand what I am trying to get at? You are on the right track, but in order to keep up with behaviors that work, you must be specific about what those behaviors are, or you'll fall back into old patterns. For instance, a solution-oriented goal might be "When I feel the doom coming on, I force myself to go out with friends."
You have a couple of good, specific solution-oriented goals, like "physical training x times per week". "Dressing sharp every day", "get 8 hours of sleep a night"...these behaviors can be seen, measured and repeated. You can do them on purpose because they are specific. And when they are specific, you are more able to do them even if you don't feel like it, and that's what you have to beat.
"I am going to re-read and highlight Divorce Remedy"
"I am going to read The 5 Love Languages by Gary Chapman and figure out what W's love language is and start showing her love in that way".
There's a couple of specific goals for the week!
You're doing incredibly, GavinO...I'm nudging you a bit more.
I thought I'd update on the situation so far,
W stayed away Fri and Sat as mentioned above. She called me on Sunday to say that the car would not start and that she will be back when the AA had come to fix it, she wanted to let me know in case I wondered where she was if I went out, I offered a jump start with my car but she said no.
Sunday was mothers day so I went to see my parents, I believe she saw hers. Had a missed call in the afternoon from her and a text asking when I was back as she wanted to move something.
Sun eve she cam back and we had a brief chat, she asked how I was doing mentally etc she then told me why she wants D and blamed everything on me said she did not love me, had nothing left was hovering near hate, I ignored her, didnt listen and gave me a load more reasons and was getting a bit nasty. I spoke up a bit but not too much didnt push much and was polite. Then went to bed.
Monday she phoned me to ask where some keys were, conversation was pleasant and brief, she also told me that some of my stuff was where she found it as she was tidying up. Did not see her Monday morning as she stayed in her room and she was back an in her room when I got home that eve at about 11.00pm, she finished work at 10.00pm.
Yesterday (Tuesday) I got home from work and said hi then went straight upstairs to get changed for training and came down to use the gym (one in the house). W told me she was nipping to work to get some stuff and she will be back in a bit.
Later when she came back she offered me a jacket potatoe (there have been no eating together or cooking for each other or anything for about a month). I declined as I was going to go out, she got a bit stroppy and had a brief go about the wedding cert and asked if i had hidden it, I said no.
I went into the kitchen to put a plate in there and I emptied the bin, she asked where I was going and what time I would be back, I told her. she just stood there staring into nothing looking a bit down and she wanted some coke (cola) so she could have some vodka and coke, i offered to get some and bring it back, she also asked for some potatoes as well (we had none) . I did this then 'went out with my work friends' (I went to see my parents, its part of the game as such)
When I got back about 10:30pm she asked me to have a look at the back of her head as she had a lump, I had a look including touching her head and hair and confirmed that there was a small lump there but it was not a spot or anything. She asked me if I had a nice time. I said that I did and that I was goiung to go to bed, she said she would be up shortly. We said night and she told me that she had to leave early in the morning so I wont see her. I said I'd see her tomorrow eve.
I believe that there are some positives, only on Sunday did she say that she was uncomfortable around me and she has said a few times over the last few weeks that I was never going to touch her again ever, but I looked at her head for her.
She has moved some stuff out, only small stuff so far and I can't see anything major gone yet.
My parents soke with herson Monday and they have not been able to make any sense of it and they are finding it distressing (they really like me and want theri daughter to be happy (pref with me)) they said that she needs time and emotional space. Whenever they tried to speak with her she got defensive and fiesty. They backed off as they did not want to push her away.
I am detatching myself and backing off. I love my W very much but know that I choose and want to stay with her I do not need to.
I am focusing on me by doing the things I mentioned in a post above.
I know I cannot do anything about the situation though I can do something about how I react to it.
I am hoping my W falters and sees that there is hope, i have learned a lot over the last few weeks and I will make our M and relationship fantastic IF we get the oppertunity. I will make her feel loved and appreciated, I will involve her and me I will look after her and protect her and let her do the same to me.
I am good and strong and I have many qualities that girls would kill for in their men (sounds arrogant doesn't it but it is not intended to be). If W does not want that then there will be someone else out there who would benefit from me. I don't want this, I want my wife back.
I believe I am doing ok, people all around have noticed a difference in me recently (last week or so).
Are there positives or am I reading too much into this? I know it is a long game and I am prepared to play it as it is important to me. I choose my wife and I choose to love my wife (she chooses not to do any of that for me at the moment lol)
The kindness and guidance from you guys and my parents have helped me loads, any further guidance is also appreciated. I am relaying my story to hopefully give a little back and some hope to those who felt hopeless as I did.
(I may well feel hopeless at times myself and i am not 100% there but I am close)
Gavin,
Sounds okay. Nothing is likely to happen rapidly given what she told you earlier. You handled it okay and have at least done some things outside the house.
One thing I'd ask you to consider is your GAL activities. What if you were to actually get back together? What if she liked the fact that you were doing these things with "friends" and wanted to be part of it? She can't really be part of pretend activities. I'm suggesting that you should actually do some activities that you enjoy or really go out with friends from work if possible.
Just_Me makes a good point. Some of the dance is partially games, but most have to be honest strides forward. Not that what you are doing is bad, just try to actually go out with friends.
Other than that, it sounds as if things are going well for you. As well as can be expected. Let her take as much time as possible. She is still seemingly very confused. Be careful. She will be trying to test your limits. Be supportive but not needy. Work on yourself. Continue making improvements. Think positive thoughts.
I hear what you are saying, work do do social events every few months and people do go out reasonably often so the option is there. I did yesterday on the fly to make a bit of a break.
Also to give her some space, I wanted to 'show' a bit that I had stopped chasing her and was sorting myself out.
It was part of the 'make it look like you are even if you aren't yet' that is dotted around the forum.
I admin I am feeling around in the dark somewhat but as long as I avoid doing any of the DO NOT's (or try to) I hope it will be ok.
She let me into her personal space to check her head for instance, she has kept me away for 5 & a bit weeks. Also offered me some food for the first time in about 3.5 weeks.
I am trying to balance a number of things and I am hoping that W will be open to reconcilliation and stopping this nightmare (for both of us)
Gavin,
Just a thought, but when she 'has a go' at you about why she feels like she does DON'T ignore her.You don't have to agree with her and it's not normaly a good idea to argue and try to justify yourself but it is quite good to validate so that she knows you are listening and understand her point of view (POV).
You can say things like "I'm sorry that you feel like that" or 'Thank you for explaining your feelings to me".
There's nothing worse than off loading to someone and thinking that they are not listening.
Hi Saffie, sorry I think my explanation in the earlier post was a bit off, when she 'had a go' I listened and validated. The 'I ignored her and didn't listen' that I mentioned was one of the complaints she had about me. I of course was listening fully and understanding (even though she was a bit extreme)I defended only slightly (the really outrageous bits)and pushed only slightly. Other than that I listened and took it and validated (felt appalling inside but held on).
Well done Gavin. I know it's not nice when those conversations happen.
W seems to be going full tilt towards D with little to no consideration to me or my fellings. She is adamant that she will not try again. She is chuckingh everything away and does not seem to care at all, she is going out regularly and staying away.
Her parents are in dispair as are my parents and our friends.
We had a rough year and apart from a couple of bad points (not that bad really)I am actually bl00dy good.
She is not considering anything, no councelling no separation, no try again nothing, just full steam towards D. She is blaming me for everything and her claims are unrealistic and her reaction (D) is extreme. WTF is going on!?! There is pracically no let up at all!
From what I understand she is gonna chuck it all in and go live with her parents, at nearly 32!
Even her parents think she is unfair and overreacting, they are devestated!
Could it be that she has got so powerful because of this that it has gone to her head?!? She is upsetting everyone and really does not seem to care at all.
Anyone got anything I can inject her with to sort her out?
I still have texts from early Jan saying she loved me loads etc, even late Jan (when it went downhill) she was a bit unsure but now its full tilt?
She seems to have changed into the opposite of what she is.
Any wives or ex wives here done something like that and could provide an insight?!?
Is it really this hard?!? I want to save our marriage but she is not giving a millimeter, nothing.
WTF!!!!
I have hesitated from saying this before, but I was wondering if your W has gotten involved with someone else? The staying out drinking etc made me think this. Do you think that's possible?
Hi Saffie,
Not as far as I am aware but then she is not gonna tell me is she, her parents don't think so and a friend who she spoke with doesn't think so.
Don't know, I suppose it is possible, but don't know.
Would that explain the absolute obsession?
The obsession with pursuing a D? It could well do.
I just find her behaviour strange.
Have you ever asked her if she is having an A or if there is someone else involved and that's why she wants a D?
No I haven't sat her down and asked her, i did angrily ask a few weeks ago but she said no.
Her behaviour is strange.
Do you think i should ask her (won't she say no?) or ignore her and GAL and see what happens or what?
I wouldn't ask her again but I would keep it in mind.
Have you asked her what the hurry is to D?
No i havn't actually, just asked why D and get the 'dont want to try again, no love left in me, no future together, I'm the problem, I'm a git' etc.
Basically she wants to offload her life and get on with it (living at parents etc) Which is not who she is.
Last year we got the house extended (July to September/Oct) and we got a new suite in Oct. As people have pointed out that is not the actions of someone who is in a failing relationship and planning on a divorce.
Os is it?!?
No, I don't think it is but then nothing is certain. However it does indicate that something has made her feel this way fairly suddenly so I can't help but go back to the feeling that there may be someone else involved.
Any suggestions as to what I do?
I want to save our marriage but she is so focussed and obsessed with destroying everything (including her parents and everyone else)
A good friend of both of us I spoke with yesterday (she said she went to see him and she told me she saw him) and he said that he hates it but I should give up and sort my own future out. I asked him if there was someone else & he said that he doubted it, she said she has had offers but is not interested in it.
aaarrrggg what is going on and why, why the absolute determination to divorce, the refusal to sort it out. MC or a split or a 2nd chance have all been ignored in favour of D.
Gavin,
i am sure you will find out in time. All I can advise is that you carry on with the changes you have made - after all they are to help you first and foremost and if they show your W that she should be reconsidering her course of action then that is a plus.
Don't dwell on is there another person - I just mentioned it because of her behavior. If there is someone else you will find out eventually. How neutral is the person you asked if your W could be having an A? Is there a chance they would cover for her? Is there a chance they could be involved?
Hi all,
I sincerely doubt that there is anyone else involved, I spoke with well meaning friends who suggetsed it and made things far worse for me.
Incidentally Michelles advice of staying away from well meaning friends is sound advice. I spoke with a couple of them who she had spoken to and although they only told me what I knew (and is reality at the moment) but for some reason it hit me hard... Fortunately I was round my parents so it did not matter.
I have seen very small positive steps this week, I have no expectations but since I have 'backed off' she seems to be comming to me more and keeping me a bit more informed. She enquired where I was going and what time i was back the other eve (why care if you are divorcing me?)she left her door open last night rather than closing it or having it ajar (slightly, mainly closed though) and we had a nice chat this morning about mundane stuff like adverts also she sat on the sofa with me rather than the floor or other sofa, I have taken my wedding ring off and made a point of stroking the cat (yes the real cat) in such a way that W would be able to see, W asked what I was doing later and I told her that I was going out to dinner, she asked who with and I told her some 'people where my parents work' (I am going round my parents for dinner and some of the people they work with are comming over (all girls - I am not looking but may be a nice boost for me)
I told W I would see her tomorrow morning as I would likely be back late.
I am doing a bit of GAL and slowly detaching, W needs to see that I am getting on with my life and it will hopefully bring some reality to her of what it would be like without me.
I hope she comes round, apart from a bit of a blip the last week or so seems a bit easier, bit less D talk and some small positives.
It is hard work but I am doing my best
I am fortunate to have the council of my mum and 2 sisters who give me a bit of an insight into how girls work. They believe that there are positives there (still need to be careful) and that it may well improve (I hope so).
It 'seems' a little easier this week and I get a soft feeling that she may be faltering slightly (may be completely wrong)
I am going to avoid speaking to any friends about it as it can do more harm than good.
I'm in for the long haul as I want my wife and friend to stay with me (she doesn't though (yet) lol)
From what I understand from talking to friends she has noticed changes in me though they and she say it is too late.
It is never too late is it?
I don't want to read too much into the positives though I believe that there are positives there. Just need to keep myself going.
Thanks for the help and support
Although she 'seems' to be slacking, it still appears that she is going towards divorce. W worked the weekend and I was out, we had a nice chat on Sunday eve but she was still going out to stay at one of her friends, she has spent the weekend at her friends (Girl) and been smoking lots of marijuana with a couple of other deadbeats that she works with.
She asked me how dinner was (I went out on Friday)she asked about this twice and if I had met new people, also said that I had learned to socialise.
We laughed together a bit about some minor stuff and she told me that she was going on the mini pill so to watch for any emotional imbalances over the next few months. (Why tell me this if you are f*cking divorcing me?!?)
She said that it was good that I was out and she was in. She told me she had 'picked up' (got drugs). She also asked me to help her roll a joint and asked my opinion on some marajuana that she got, she said she smoked 5-6 joints last night (Thats a hell of a lot for her!!!) and she was staying at Sue's that eve, she also said that she was meeting with a couple of her (deadbeat) friends from work tomorrow (today) so she can go and meet their main dealer (drugs).
Today I noticed that she had changed her facebook profile to Relationship: It's Complicated and Interested in: Men from being Married to me. I also got a facebook Hug from her (don't know if it was specifically for me or one she sent to loads, her profile shows that she sent 1 hug and later sent others.
WTF is going on!!!!
Granted we had a bad year relationship wise (plus the otehr stuff that happened) but is that enough to chuck everything in?? are there any WAW's out there that can give me an insight into what the hell is going through her head?
She seems to want to chuck everything in that she has ever wanted for Marijuana, alcohol and her deadbeat (single) work friends.
It seems to have started out as her needing to shock me to (Back in end of Jan) but seems to have gone so downhill.
Give me strength!!!
she told me that she was going on the mini pill so to watch for any emotional imbalances over the next few months. (Why tell me this if you are f*cking divorcing me?!?)
I have to go back to what I asked you in an earlier post. This seems just weird. I can only conclude that she is having an A or is anticipating starting one. If she hasn't been on the pill prior to this why start now?
I know in my sitch when H was having an A, the OW had never been on the pill throughout her M but she went on it for my H. Luckily he broke up with her before she pressurised him into unprotected sex.
Ah, she is on the normal pill at the moment, she has some health issues (Very high Blood Pressure) and she smokes so I think that they are some of the reasons that she is moving to the mini pill rather than staying on the normal pill.
I sincerely doubt that there is anyone else or an A. If you want a divorce so bad then why not tell the spouse that to speed it up or something.
Still doubt very much that there is an A. (never know though of course).
It seems she wants deadbeat friends booze and drugs?!?! She is 31 and married with responsibilities, a husband who loves her, a nice house and a cat, she is not a teenager or a dropout but she seems to be acting like one.
I could understand the reaction (divorce) if I slept around, drank too much, beat her etc but I am not and never have or will.
We had a poor relationship for a year plus she had a bad year as well, a really bad relationship for 6 months (my depression). And she wants to bin it all.
Her parents are devestated and believe that she is overreacting and blaming me FAR to much for silly things really.
My wife appears to have gone nuts!!!
Sorry Gavin, I thought she was going from no pill to the pill.
sometimes they don't admit they are having an A because they think it will be easier all round if the LBS doesn't have that rubbed in their face. Who knows what goes on in their minds
This BB is a great source of support, just read some of the successful men ones and there does seem to be the following theme:
Wife has everything she wants.
Wife decides she doesn't want it and starts to chuck it all in and is absolutely adamant.
Husband wonders WTF??
Husband does all of the don'ts (crying, begging, pressure, jumping up and down)
Wife feels supremely justified in ruining everything
Husband nails the forums and starts DBing
Husband makes genuine deep lasting changes
Wife ignores all and is still set (but still notices changes)
Husbands changes are maintained, Husband does not give up.
Wife gets a bit worse.
Husband maintains changes and does not give up.
Wife continues but seems to slow a bit.
Husband maintains changes and does not give up.
Wife falters a bit.
Husband maintains changes and does not give up.
Wife starts to wonder what she is doing.
Wife sees a bit of reason.
Wife comes back.
Husband gets wife back.
Stronger marriage.
lol.
I really doubt that W is having an affair, I believe that she is looking for a new man as such (WTF you have a husband here!!!).
I think that it is a combination of the relationship problems from the last year plus the 'lure' of the single life plus deadbeat friends plus drugs and booze. I am hoping she is having a bit of a nuts time and will come out of it soon.
It is just so not like her at all.
I suppose I just have to keep going and hope she comes to her senses.
She likes lots of attention but she will not let me do any of that at all at the moment, the only time I touched her in the last month was when she asked me to look at her head.
I have done 180's such as stopping chasing, I also do all of the housework and most of the washing, I have also gone out quite a few times.
This is nuts and really, really hard.
Thanks for listening
So far it has been 7 weeks of steadily getting worse. In the beginning it seemed she was in 2 minds or at least not 100% dedicated, then it went downhill, though it appears that she is slacking off a bit.
She still seems to be off the rails a bit with the smoking loads and spending time with the deadbeats. It looks like low self esteem stuff or something.
She moved some stuff out about 2 weeks ago, small things like her books and some teddies and a dinner set and she has packed a box but not got much in it. Nothing else has been moved.
Her bedroom door is open more so, sometimes half way and sometimes just ajar.
The marriage certificate is still in the study and the estate agents (real estate) details have not gone back to them to put the house on the market, finally I have not heard anything from the solicitors about the divorce papers.
I have done some 180's and GAL, but I belive the issue was that she felt neglected and rejected by me so i am not sure that going out so much is good so may reel that back in a bit to make sure I am there a bit more and talk to her when the oppertunity arises (not R stuff). I also want to put my wedding ring back on.
I do love my wife more than anything and want us to forge a new and stronger relationship, its just waiting for her to stop and realise that it is not so bad and that we can move forward together.
Speaking with my little sister she believes that everything will turn out alright as my W has always been adamant that she loves me loads. Little sis also thinks that it will still be a bit hard for a few more weeks.
I believe that there are some positives but I am unsure how to move forward if at all possible. If anyone has any suggestions they would be greatfully recieved, especially if they are from a WAW.
Thanks all
I think you will have to really address some substance abuse issues. It's proven that she is an abuser of drugs. How is your relationship to her parents? Can you talk to them? I think she really needs help.
That being said, put the wedding band back on. Be proud of your faithfulness to her. Don't jeopardize it because of a possible moment of resentment/weakness.
Hi all,
W came back from work yesterday, left the car running and stomped in to get her phone charger. She told me that my parents had been speaking to her parents and was angry with that, she said she was staying at her sisters overnight, she then left and reversed out without looking back at me.
About half hour later she phoned me and told me that she had spoken with her mum and sai her parents did not want any contact. Her parents are absolutely devestated and cannot cope with what is going on, they have even booked a holiday to get away.
She got her sister to leave a message on my dad's phone asking them nicely to leave their parents and that my W and I should be able to sort it out whichever way it goes.
I said to my wife that she is not the person I married and that the person I married was in there somewhere, what is going on, she had changed over the last 6 weeks. She said that she was happy (drugs, drinking, deadbeats and limited future?!?!) she called me a d!ck and asked if I remember the other Sunday (where she gave loads of reasons most are poor really though obviousley not to her). She said that she did not love me and did not want to be with me anymore, that we are getting a divorce and I shoudl accept it and that w can go our seperat ways and she will never hav to see me again. I said why is it so sudden and she said it wasn't for her.
WTF!! there has been no give at all and no change in what she wants (divorce) she will not do anything at all for the marriage or relationship and does not want to. She seems to have gone through all of the emotional stuff and is now 'cool and calculated'
A bad year relationship wise plus others outside pressures and she is going for the jugular mercilessly.
We have been together for a long time and had fantastic times but there is no give at all and doesnt look like there will be any give.
It takes 2 to save a marriage and relationship but there is nothing at all from her corner, I have done my changes and can only focus on me. Its really sad that my W seems to have turned inside out and upside down and doesn't care about anything at all.
I have put my wedding ring back on as I am committed and want to heal our relationship.
I will have to start speaking with her about the divorce stuff and what she wants from the house etc, will also have to adjust the household bills as I pay over twice what she does but 50% is over 1k and she can't afford that.
It looks really bad and hopeless I don't want to give up but what can I do against such a wall?
I have put my wedding ring back on as I am committed and want to heal our relationship.
......
I will have to start speaking with her about the divorce stuff
......
It looks really bad and hopeless I don't want to give up but what can I do against such a wall?
Do what will heal YOU right now. Want to show your commitment, then wear your ring - but only because YOU want to.
Don't want to divorce? Then you don't HAVE to talk to her about it...just put some distance between you for now.
Up against a wall? You can go around, go over, paint it to blend in with your view, or knock it down. But in any case, start by focusing on YOU right now!
Someone herre has a tag line in theirr sig "Be the greener grass" and that has become my mantra. It might be that you are cultivating a fantstic yard for your NEXT relationship, but whatever you do....get your own lawn in order.
You can't "fix" her. Only you.
(Suddenly having a flashback to the old Kung Fu series..."When you can snatch the pebble from my hand, it is time for you to leave" LOL)
Hi Weldingguy,
I am working on me and I have come a long way over the last month or so.
I am and what she already has is the greener grass (no really), she doesn't see that. She wants to give it all up for nothing, certainly far less than she has at the moment. Single instead of married with a committed and loving husband, tiny flat/houseshare or at parents instead of the fantastic house we have, 40k drop in income (combined), deadbeat young single 'friends' instead of the friends we have both had for many years.
She was always really pleased at how well she and us had done, we have done really well for our ages. She has turned into the complete opposite of who she is, what she wants and what she stands for!
It was only just over a month ago that I last saw the 'real wife' and about the same time that she last said she loved me.
I know 7 weeks is a short time but there has been no shift at all, no movement and no deviation, even the small positives are only really small things. There has been absolutely nothing.
She is staying at her parents next week as they are away, I could do with the break anyway and I hope she sorts herself out, I don't want the person she is at the moment, i want my loving kind wife back
<snip>
I am and what she already has is the greener grass (no really), she doesn't see that. She wants to give it all up for nothing, certainly far less than she has at the moment.
...i want my loving kind wife back
We all do, my friend. And they will all look like they want to give it up for seemingly nothing. Today is 5 months for me. I've made changes, etc.
All I know is this - you can't PULL her into being your old wife. All you will do is tire yourself to the point of physical and emotional exhaustion. Just stop trying. (I know - easy for me to say, right?)
But it isn't working, and will actually drive her away, and you will be a tired emotional mess - not something that ANYONE will want to get with....her or the potential next Mrs GavinO.
I'm still not even to the piecing stage, but sneaking up on it - or so it seems for today. Tomorrow could go right back to the old crazy ways...who knows. I'm just focusing on being the new and improved Mr. Welder and and letting her see it and it HAS made a difference...but it had to come from HER...not me. And once that happened, she suddenly started coming to the house for hours (rather than the abbreviated txt msgs)and calling every night. She is still saying at her parents house, but the combination of that drama and my changes (plus some serious changes on HER part) have given me a ray of hope.
But that's all I am allowing for now too.....like I said, there WILL be a snap back LOL.
So sit down, buckle up, shut up and keep your hands inside the ride at all ties...until it comes to a complete and final stop!!!
update,
W came home yesterday about 10:00pm and we had a cofee and a chat together. We discussed what went wrong (basically down to communication and me being withdrawn, classic example). W has been spending time with some work friends and her sister and seems to have calmed down on the smoking.
While discussing, and I was listening!, what went wrong with the relationship she got a bit tearful. She felt that I ignored her which made her feel unwanted and unatractive (she is gorgeous and I love her) she tried everything and wanted to do things together, but no response from me (typical bloke withdrawal due to pressure and also I was depressed)
She did not like it when I was desperate (early on, a few weeks ago, I have calmed down more now. She wants me to be a better person for my next relationship. I said ok, and we talked a bit more, I asked her if she would help me learn to cook some stuff, she agreed (positive?!?). Then she went up to bed and asked me to bring up a drink, which i did. She let me come into her room and sit at the bottom of the bed while we chatted, it was a nice general chat, we also discussed doing some stuff in the garden over the weekend together (yay). Spend about half hour chatting nicely before she wanted to go to sleep and i left
I know my wife, she does not really want a divorce and to get rid of everything that we have worked for.
This morning we had a brief chat, she said we cant do our garden tomorrow (sat) as we have to help a friend do theirs, she asked if it was ok if she came along as well as it is difficult. I said it was fine for her to be there. W looked a bit unhappy & sad this morning.
I am improving myself in many ways. I love my wife more than anything and I am seeing some positives albeit that they are small.
It is hard but worth it, I have ordered DR which has turned up to my parents, DB will be along in a few weeks. I understand the principals which is to improve yourself so that your spouse sees that and has doubts. I am improving myself for rebuilding a new relationship with my wife, or for my next relationship.....with my wife.
Baby steps, not pushing, being loving, letting her do her thing, I can 'see' that she still loves me but she doen't realise that yet. Time, patience.
Thanks for listening
By the way she still said she didn't love me and she still wants a divorce.
Update and some advice please,
W did a girls night with some of our mutual friends last night and then went on to a party afterwards where she smoked maruana and got drunk really quickly, threw up and got put to bed by one of her girlfriends.
Saw her this evening and sat with her for about an hour and a half, we chatted nicely and laughed some, she told me about the party last night and a possible new job thing on Tuesday.
Her parents are away for a week on holiday and she said that she is going to stay there On Wed and maybe Thur with some workfriends and smoke maruana. She is out this evening with some friends and going for an indian maybe, said she won't be back late. She did some of my washing (for a change), I also made her some toast.
She got changed to go out and I told her she looked nice, she said that she had lost weight and bizzarely said that she might fit into her wedding dress again?!?!?!??!
Incidentally she said that she cannot party with 20 year olds as she is knackered, and she looks tired and has been tired for ages, she did nothing today apart from lay on the sofa, watch telly and doze (she told me, I was out).
She only mentioned briefly about noting things down for spliting up the house for the divorce and mentioned something about us being 'split up'
She also offered me breakfast in the morning?
It seems that we are getting a bit friendlier which is good but I want it to move up a few gears (not up to me I know)
The thing I find really upsetting is that she does not seem to care about the 'fact' we are getting a divorce, she is acting a bit like a teenager and does not seem to care that we are MARRIED and what we have done together. She seems to want to chuck it all in to live at her parents WTF!!!!!!!
It is really hard and difficult to know which way it is going? she is my wife and I love her and want to do things with her, be intimate, sleep with her(sex) and stay in the same bed as her.
I have improved myself in many ways, physically, emotionally, mentally and I am ready to move forward as a great HUSBAND and partner.
How do these things go, does anyone have a rough idea? there has been no physical contact for 7 weeks and we have had seperate bedrooms, there has been no inclination so far on her part to even try with our marriage and relationship.
Since I have backed off and started focussing on me, she has approached me more and we have been able to spend some nice time together? am I doing the right thing? how do I (if i can) move it onto the next stage?
What do I do, how do I do it? are things going ok? How do I get my wife back?
Any advice appreciated
Thanks
Gavin
Bump,
Any suggestions welcome
"You" can't really move it along. You'll have to just keep up the PMA and working on improving yourself. Be the person she will WANT to be with.
For what its worth, that will probably include watching her find for herself that partying and acting like a kid again are actually self-destructive behaviours. IF she asks, you might be able to suggest that she might not have to spend the whole day hungover if she didn't party so hard, but bringing it up yourself will be seen as pushing.
Long and bumpy road...and a real pain in the a$$ to watch. But you are doing the right things, just keep it up. Keep coming here to vent, and keep acting 'as if" everything is just fine....
Had breakfast together this morning and she started to make a list of everything so it can be divided up for the divorce.
We spoke for a while (me mainly) and there is NO MOVEMENT AT ALL, she is not willing to give it another go, not willing to do anything at all, she wants the divorce and that is it, she is not interested in anything else, there is absolutely no give whatsoever. Not interested.
WTF!!!
Anyone else had a W that had no want or interest at all in saving the marriage and relationship? No remorse, no upset (so it seems) no possible regrets, nothing??
Maybe I pushed a bit much a bit soon?
All over me not paying her any attention for the last year (rather less and less attention (unintentionally))even marriages where there is physical abuse, affairs and such like seem to get more of a chance than I am getting, I have said that we should be able to get over this and have a stronger relationship but she is not giving at all.
Anyone been in a similar situation? and how did you turn it around? I am committed to saving the relationship but it does take 2 she is set on it and regards our marriage and relationship as over? Falling at the first hurdle?
*^*(ing hell!
Advice really appreciated, I do not want to give up but what do I do??!
Pushed too much yesterday
hate it when you backslide.
Told her to move out to her parents, which she may do
don't want that as I said it in pain and frustration, at least if she is at home then there is communication.
W did flag issues a few times over the last year, I though that they were just normal arguements that couples have
She said she has got nothing left and doesn't want to try any more
Just want one last chance now i really see!!
Definately think I messed up yesteday
too much pressure and chasing aarrggghhh.
There were some small positives but i think I have undone them. Have to start again I think.
Noticed today that she has removed me as a friend on Facebook
I think she has set her mind on Divorce and the only thing I can do is go along with it and try the LRT.
I kick myself for not noticing the signs/paying attention/Listening for making silly mistakes that I could have avoided that seems to have cost me the girl I love and cost her the man she loved. She loved me dearly, though it looks like it has all gone, I love her dearly and still do.
I wish and still wish that mine can be a success story, I still don't want to give up hope, please all pray for me.
Anyone else had a W that had no want or interest at all in saving the marriage and relationship? No remorse, no upset (so it seems) no possible regrets, nothing??
Gavin,
I am having the same problem. The only good thing is that your W is talking. I have not talked to my W for 3 months. She has started lesbian R, won't talk and is accusing me of physical abuse in court papers that she actually did to me while she was drunk. I also think she has started drinking much more. Alcoholism runs in her family. That sad part is I still love her. It hurts me everyday to drive by her work. I don't know what to say to encourage you but just don't give up if thats what you want. But to be honest, it sounds like she is an addict in some ways to weed. She probably will not change until she hits rock bottom.
Hi Germ, its a nightmare isn't it.
Incidentally I have been looking at things and understand a bit more about DB and the goals, I had the following short term goals (and still do)
1) W continues communication
2) W spends more time at home & with me
3) We talk small talk/rubbish
I had actally got some good ground with them, we had dinner together (seperately) and breakfast together which she cooked.
But I backslid and seem to have f*cked up
on Sunday as I pushed and chased. I hope there is not too much damage.
She said she was going to take the property list and marriage cert and stuff to the solicitor on Monday, but the list and the cert are still at home as of this morning.
Her parents are away this week and she said that she will be staying there, definately on Wednesday, maybe on Thursday, but she was not back last night and I did not hear anything so I assume that she stayed at her parents.
I am letting go slowly but never giving up! I will focus on goals and DBing and I am in for the long haul, i hope to minimise my backslides and get as many baby steps forward as possible.
I owe it to me, my future and my W to never give up. I hope that she 'calms down'/loses focus/sees sense whatever and comes to realise that M is not all roses and easy and that love is more than just the high (kept it going for 9.5 years which is good eh!), that there is a deeper understanding and love that is worth going through pain to get to.
A magic wand will also be handy if anyone has one spare
Is it normal for the WAW/spouse to be completely uncaring, not interested and extremely foul mouthed?
For instance she has called me every 4 letter word under the sun and more, with extreme venom as well.
Is it also normal for them to stick the knife in and twist it practically non stop?
Also is it normal for them to appear to try and burn every bridge? hate my parents, doesn't want me to contact her parents or her sister.
Also some of the things she has said and has said other people have said are somewhat untrue from what I can gather.
Also considering that it was only the begining of Feb that she seemed to be unsure, its not that long ago and she has gone downhill!
Is this & the other stuff 'normal' behaviour? because I think it is ultra extreme and think it is a bit silly really and completely unnessisary.
Any advice?
I think abnormal behavior is the norm. Also, demonizing you is a way for them to convince themselves that their questionable decisions are justified. Think of them as a possessed pod person. That is the only way I could rationalize my W's own irrational, atypical and sometimes erratic behavior.
Hi Gforce,
It does seem to be bizzare, I have heard mention of calling the spouse 'Aliens' or something in a number of places through this forum.
btw I had a look at your story and you seem to be doing really well considering, keep up the good work on yourself.
Do we have any WAW's who are able to shed some light on what they do and why? What prevents them from recognising that what they have (and are about to throw away) is good and worth working for, what made some WAW's return and give the marriage a go.
Would be good to get a bit of an inside track on how they work and why
Thanks for the encouragement in my sitch. I hope I can continue to do as well in real life as I seem to be doing on paper.
I think you should stop trying to figure out "why" WAW do what they do. Have you thought about what your part in her leaving has been? And what you can do to fix those things in yourself for your own benefit? If you make those changes in yourself, the likelihood that W will see something she may want to return to is greater. Even if she never comes back, you will be a better person for your future.
Remember - do as I say, not as I do!
Yesterday I cam home and W and one of her girlfiends were in, I offered a coffee to them and W came down with her cup. I asked her about a job interview she had that day and she said it went well, she has to do a couple of trial shifts and do a formal interview at some point but she is confident she will get it, I said her hair looks nice (Glue in purple streaks in it)she thanked me and told me she had new jeans as well.
I asked if she was home or away tonight, she said away and I know she is away on Wed as she has a couple of friends round to make hash cookies. She is staying at her parents while they are away this week. W said she would be back on Thursday.
During that discussion I saw my real wife for a bit which was sooo nice.
I took the coffees upstairs to them and said I was going to do some training, W waved at me.
When they left W said she'd catch me later.
So far:
*she has not packed or moved anything else out (yet lol)
*our marriage certificate is still upstairs in the study
*the list of property is in the table downstairs
*The details for putting the house on the market is still in the house unsigned and not returned to the estate agents
*there is a picture of us next to her computer where she pays solitaire
*I have not had any divorce papers through yet (but have a letter I need to sign for
and collect from the post office)Dunno what it is.
I have got the 5LL (hers is quality time then acts of service, then physical touch, which I knew anyway really - I did the questionaires as I know her) Also got DB and DR and men are from mars, women are from venus so I have got to read and learn like a mofo.
W seems to be running the 'single life' at the moment, I hope it burns out and that she realises that what she has already can be great! If we can renew/rebuild/restart our relationship things will never get this bad again, she will never feel hurt or neglected again as I will be giving our relationship my all.
Just want her to 'come out of it' and be open to regrowth and rebuilding.
Hanging in there and improving myself, I like myself and I am being positive, friendly and upbeat most of the time genuinely as well (I have bad moments of course)I am also keeping the house tidy as well (one of my 180's that have been consistent)
Hope it all comes good
Gavin, its frustrating how it feels that something this drastic had to happen for us to really change. In your case, there is still hope that it could lead to something positive. Do you ever feel you are too nice to her? She is walking all over you by living together and buying drugs with your money. I say that because it seems like every post involves her doing drugs. Weed is her H right now. That being said though. I think you are doing great. You are a strong person. I wish I even could talk to my wife right now.
Thought I'd update somewhat as advice and encouragement is always appreciated.
Went home yesterday after work, W had nipped back at some point as the outside light was on and the kitchen light was on. There was an ashtray in the lounge and part of a long rizla (for making a joint) the coffee cup (cup with some coffee and a spoon in) I left for W was still in the kitchen untouched.
The marriage certificate has gone from the study but the list of property is still in the table downstairs and the house details (for estate agent) is still in the kitchen.
Went to see some friends last night which was nice, only spoke about me and W for a bit and no one knows why she has gone for divorce, no one noticed any problems or issues and from what they understand the 'reasons' for the divorce are:
1) Not doing enough around the house.
2) Not spending time with her.
Not insurmountable problems I don't think?!?!?
W has not changed tack yet (still over and divorce) and she seems to be getting on as such but there are a few contradictions.
From her is no hint of us getting back together or her wanting to try or anything. She is out quite a bit and smoking and drinking quite a bit.
Is it a phase I wonder? My wife and best friend has turned inside out and upside down and is someone she it not (I know her, I have known her for 1/3 of our lives)
I'm gonna hang in there and keep improving myself, I have no idea what is going through her head or why she is like she is, i had a bad patch of 6 months or so and did almost nothing with her due to depression, maybe its her turn so to speak?!?!?
Thanks for the support guys and gals and again any advice on how to proceed would be appreciated. I am committed to my wife, marriage and relationship (she isn't lol) so not sure what to do in the circumstances.
Cheers
Gavin
G'Day Gavin,
Thanks for sharing your situation with us on here. It seems remarkably similar to mine except I was the one agressively pushing for divorce when I found out about my wife's OM. I think this 180 led to my wife stalling and woke her up to what she stood to lose.
Keep doing what works and rejecting what does not and be sure to look after GavinO's own life and enjoyment. It's very, very tough I know but we simply have to hang in there. The consequences of not trying are far worse than the consequences of trying - irrespective of the outcome. I know what it's like to want the chaos just to end.
best,
GH31
Hi GH31,
Thanks for your reply, I have looked at your story and admire your attitude, your wife is giving very mixed signals saying one thing then doing the opposite which has to be really hard. I salute you for your strength.
My W on the other hand seems to be saying the bad things and doing some bad things, she has not acknowledged or hinted that there may be a chance and is going out loads. I don't know if it is due to confusion or determination or what. She seems set and rational when I speak to her and when I push (bad) she diggs in and gets.....'spikey' (verbally nasty) eg: 'I need a big stick so I can beat it into your f*cking thick head that its over' - I am going on the believe none of what you hear and half of what you see but don't know where to draw the line.
She said the other day she missed the foot rubs and back rubs...but that was about it. - lol in 9.5 years, thats all eh?
Everyone (friends/family) thinks her behaviour is bizzare and extreme and that what she says the problems are are not insurmountable and certainly not a reason to end a relationship and marriage.
Ok, our relationship has been poor for a year and I did nothing for our relationship for 6 months or so due to depression. I understand I did not help enough around the house and that she felt like my mother rather than my wife, I understand that I did too much of my own thing and didn't do enough with her (very little over last 6 months).
Why is this so bad that we need to split up and affect loads of people and ruin 9.5 years of relationsip and 4 years of marriage?!?!?!?
My thinking somewhat is ok, she felt unloved because I didn't show it and wants to chuck it in, I feel unloved at the moment as she is being a f*cking b!tch and divorcing and so on but I am still prepared to sort out our relationship and marriage and move on together, I know it doesn't quite work that way, and it has only been 8 weeks since issues started and 6 weeks since she said she wanted a divorce.
Going to hang in there still and look after me, it is surreal that my wife and best friend has done/is doing this. I hope she runs out of steam or something but at the moment it seems there is no stopping her. Ultimately a divorce is a bit of paper and it is the relationship that is at the core of it. She does not seem to be budging yet and appears to be desperate to get out.
(sigh)
Hope everyone is doing well (or as well as it can be) don't give up
Is there any way that you can do something nice for her? Like put together a fun (note: not romantic) night for her? Maybe go see a movie or something.
I may well give that a go, this weekend is a bank holiday weekend so will have to see what happens. It would be nice to try to do something but she may well tell me to shove it.
I'll see how it goes
Finishd work today and went to my parents for a bit. W called me at 18:30 to ask when I'd be home as we said we'd get together to discuss (divorce) things, she said that she'd be happy with 10K (GBP)(20k USD), she'd looked at it as that seemed about right. (me buying her out was a possibility. How I'll afford a 335k mortgage on 40k I don't know)but we'll discuss it later
She mentioned her new job but again we'll discuss it later.
I said i'd be back at 19:00 ish. I also though f*uck that and didn't want to discuss divorce stuff as it wears a bit thin when it is the main topic your wife talks to you about, also not sure i want to give her 10k so she can dissapear (time is a nessecity etc). I text at 19:15 that i would be home later (GAL and that, also I'll do what I want to do etc)
I got home and she called out for me and left the front door open, she went upstairs and we chatted briefly about her sister going to hospital for a back thing and a bit about her trial day (today), she has an interview tomorrow at 2pm. She was a bit p!ssy about me being back late as we were going to discuss (prob divorce stuff) and it was too late for that.
She avoided looking at me for pretty much all the time, she sniped only once (progress? lol) then she went to bed (left door half open for a change ish) and chatted with a friend on the phone, she said she was worried about her sister and didn't have anyone to talk to (er hello, husband here?!?) she also mentioned that she was moving to her parents next week. The conversation was done reasonably loudly. I didnt get a good night or anything (normally do albeit in response to mine)
Anyway I do want to say:
'WHAT THE F*CK IS F*CKING WRONG WITH THESE SPOUSE B4STARDS WHERE THEY JUST SEEM TO SWITCH OFF EVERYTHING FEELING WISE AND NICE WISE TOWARDS THEIR (in my case, husband)SPOUSE AND ACT LIKE RIGHT F*CKING BAGS OF 5HIT TOWARDS EVERYTHING THAT YOU (In my case, me) ARE, AND EVERYTHING THAT YOU HAVE DONE TOGETHER, AND THEY ARE JUST CHUCKING IN EVERYTHING(in our case - Me (someone who loves her and just was not a good husband for a bit)a fantastic house, cat and our future together.
Part of me wants to scream 'F*ck off then if thats how you feel and don't want to do anything at all for our relationship, even f*cking murderers get appeals, couples have physical abuse and affairs and get through it why can't you accept its been a rough patch and us sort it out, no one can understand why you are thundering towards divorce like a train!'
(I think I have said similar to her mind - not my finest moment lol)
Ok some bits she has told me why she is getting divorced:
1) I don't love you anymore
(A)Love is an action not just an emotion, you do loving things then you can feel love etc.
2) I don't want to be with you anymore
(A) Thats cr4p, I'm great, and people like me and I'm nice too and I love her and want us to have a great relationship. A
3) She can't forgive me for how I acted when she has a misscarriage (never new if it was or just a heavy period - doctor could not confirm. If she was pregnant then it would have been no more than 2 weeks. - I said 'At least we won't have to sell the house or cars' Not a good thing to say really (people have said and done worse) but I hugged her and comforted her and made her coffee and sat with her. This was 2 years ago by the way.
(A) F*ck, aren't you overreacting a bit really?!? - Honestly?
4) I'm a lazy f*ck, never did anything, she was the one that pushed me and got us to where we are. Also do nothing round that house.
(A)Er, she has been in the same job for 10 years, I have had several including 100k a year contract work and now a highly paid professial job, I did a 2 year qualification in 3 months and a further qualification while I was out of work for 6 months - We got where we are because of US working TOGETHER, not her pushing me. I agree that I did not do much about the house so she got me there really.
5) She can never forgive me for laughing at her when she broke her coccyx (not sure of spelling but basically it is your a$$). I did nothing around the house and she had to mow the lawn, (then we flew abroad for a friends wedding a week later)
(A) Er, what can I do when you have a broken a$$??? - I comforted her as much as possible, she broke it on a monday and I work during the week, she did stuff around the house when she could because a) I was not there but she was b) it was normally fairly tidy anyway d) something for her to do as such. Ok I didn't mow the lawn and she did, maybe I should have mown the lawn but is it that bad?
6) She hates my parents (disproportionately)
(A) My parents are not me, yes they chucked their burdens on us and asked opinions and help with my sisters who were going through a bad patch, which has affected our relationship/marriage. They are an outside influence, this has stopped etc.
7)She didnt want me to do contract work but I did and I stayed away and left her.
(A) Ok she did not want me to contract but was happy with a 100k income, also I stayed away for 3 nights a week for 2-3 months, I drove to and from every day for the rest of the 14 months so I could come back and see her - this was 250 miles a day with a full 8-10 hour day at the office.
8) I never supported her
(A) I did 90% of the business and finance part of the business we were going to set up (went down due to fraud on the finance broker's side. Rather than go into details I'll just say have supported her. Ok I told her not to talk about her job too much (was getting a bit much as it would go on for ages when she got home - stressful care job) Sorry about that, lets talk about it then.
9) I never showed I loved her.
(A) maybe the wrong love language at times, but I always gave her back and foot rubs (5-7 a week!!), ran her a bath ready for when she finished work after me, did loads of little errands for her like getting bits from the shop, getting practically anything for her at any time really. I have c0cked up on the quality time thing (primary LL) over the last year and the last 6 months (to Jan) I was struggling with depression (only 'discovered' it in Feb due to divorce) so not really responsive, I just played on the computer and smoked maruauna (yes me too lol, given up though - not good stuff really) and was depressed. We did not a lt together over this time and looking back she did try loads and i did not repond (depression).
Sorry for venting but it is frustrating getting stonewalled at every turn. I feel (felt, I'm stronger now) like a mouse against a cat - Tom and Jerry style where no matter where the mouse tries to go it gets stopped by the cat.
Also frustrating is the absolute lack of any emotion like regret, remorse, compassion and such like, although there has been the occasional teary look whe we discussed what went wrong and another when I pushed a lot.
I think it is a bit much and really believe that the reasons are cr4p and are things that can easily be overcome, IF she wants to but she doesn't.
Would you divorce someone for the reasons above? or is it all a bit extreme, also why the heading for divorce like a train, no councelling, separation or anything like that.....over?!?!?!?!? Divorce....End.
Anyone got any suggestions or advice?!?
(Bangs head against wall)
Sorry for long post
BY THE WAY I STILL LOVE MY WIFE LOTS AND WANT TO SORT THINGS OUT
Update,
Looking at baby steps, had some nice time together yeaterday (3 times) and this morning. I am focussing on her primary LL (quality time) and I am meeting my goals of more time together with small talk.
She invited me into her room yesterday for a cigarette and a chat. One of our friends is getting married today and initially we were not going to go but she got the oppertunity to go and is going. I don't mind this and want her to have a nice time.
Just looking at baby steps at the moment though she is still going for the split.
She said yesterday that one of our friends said that he thought it was really strong of her to decide a 10 yr relationship wasn't working and finish it.
F*cking w4nker!!!! He knows nothing about our relationship, if his wife decides to chuck it in because he is obsessed with poker and does nothing to help her then I'll f*cking tell her that she made the right decision and that she should get it done ASAP.
Anyway, moving painfully slowly forward.
Wish me luck
Good luck to all
Spoke with W this morning, we were going to have breakfast but she didn't feel like it, we chatted about the wedding, she enjoyed it but found it really hard and felt it was a bit difficult as lots of our friends were there and they are all couples. She text last night when they were leaving and the text had a x on the end!, the first one in a month! (sad getting excited that your wife puts a x at the end of a text)
She found the wedding hard and said that our first dance song came on a few songs after the first dance and she found it really hard.
This morning she sat on the sofa opposite but came and sat right next to me (touching all one side) to show me the pictures she had taken on her camera, she then went to sit back on the other sofa, we chatted a bit more. One odd thing she said was that she shaved her legs but didn't need to as she was wearing a long dress and it was not line I (me, Gavin) was there or she had a partner. W also brought back a small easter egg for me from one of the favors that they have at weddings. She is staying at her parents this eve and seeing her sister who has an infection in her spine
She mentioned that she will move to her parents next week (she only has one day off so not sure how that ill work, though it can be done if she just moves her stuff like clothes and toiletries)
So far we have spent some nice time together over the last few days, she has also stated that the only good thing out of this is that she has lost some weight (WTF YOU DOING THIS THEN IF YOU HAVE ADMITTED THAT THERE ARE NO GOOD THINGS ABOUT IT!!!!)
Mum and my sister think that there are loads of positives and that she is slowly making her way back to me but can't do it all in one go?
I am cautiously optimistic, she 'seems' to have slowed somewhat and we are talking a lot more, D gets brought up only a bit and with less vehemence.
This is hard, I know my wife and it is not what she 'truly' wants even though it seems to be what she 'really' wants.
Any WAWs able to put a perspective on this? Is she slowly coming back to me or is she not? things do seem more positive but I don't want to get hopeful and then shafted!
Any advice appreciated.
Cheers
Gavin
Gavin,
It sounds like you are doing ok but a couple of things... are you still focusing on improving yourself? Maybe you can think about her less for a little while. Start running or lifting or praying more. Also, have you thought about going out for a weekend? Nothing confrontational but maybe like a retreat weekend or something.
At the same time, just be excited that you are at where you are at. If you read my story you will see that it is pretty much hopeless. My WAW is definitely under the throws of some mental/demonic disorder. I can only hope that your WAW will recover.
Ok update time,
Friday
Spent a bit of time together in the morning before she went out, just general chat stuff. She came back later and we chatted some more, she asked me to help zip her dress up a couple of times (dress she was wearing for the wedding the following day)- she looked fantastic!she also made a card for the wedding and aksed my opinion on a few bits (signed it her name only). She then went out to one of her friends. When she came back invited me into 'her' room for a cigarette and a chat, & we had a nice chat while I was sat on the bed next to her.
Saturday
Got up early and sat with her on the sofa (she sat next to me for a change) & we chatted for a bit, mt brother in law picked her up and came to the door while she was in the bathroom so I spoke with him briefly 'I don't want a divorce, unnessisary etc' Then they left to go to the wedding up north, W said she would text when they left, which she did and it included a x on it (first x since Jan!) I was in bed and asleep when she got back at 00:45.
Sunday
Went downstairs and she sat on the sofa opposite but came and sat right next to me (touching entire side) to show me the pics, after she sat on the opposite sofa again, we were going to have breakfast but she didn't feel like it. She said the wedding was nice but she found it hard especially when 'my girl' was played as that was our first dance song. she then went out to see her sister and said that she was staying at her parents that eve.
I saw my brother in law that evening at a B'day party and spoke with him a bit. He said that she seems to be thinking about it a bit more but also seems determined to go on with it. He said that maybe her starting her new job and moving to her parents for a few weeks may bring some reality to her, he confirmed that there was no one else as W's twin sister had asked directly. He He agrees that there is no real reason for a divorce and that the issues are not something that can't be worked out, he thinks its difficult at the moment.
I also spoke to a very good friend who W had spoken to and he was of the opinoin that what she was saying was overexaggerated and nothing like me at all, and he said that she seemed to believe it and that if he didn't know me he would think I was a right a$$hole from what she said. He also thought that she was using it to justify her decision. He thinks that its all a bit cr4p really.
Monday
Was back early, I went downstairs at 9.00, she had got out all of the breakfast stuff (bacon, eggs, sausages, eggs, beans etc) and got all of the pans out. I sat in the fornt room with her and she seemed a bit off, she asked how my evening was at the birthday, I asked her how her evening was and she said she 'got drugs and had sex' I repeated this back to her and she said 'what do you think' (I don't know?!?) we chatted for a bit then she made us both a really nice breakfast. I said I was going to go into town if she wanted to come, she did and we wandered about in town and had a coffee in the bookshop I got some new shoes then we cam back home, she left the car running and nipped in the house to use the bathroom before going off to her sisters and seeing her parents (back from holiday). That eve I came home at 22:00 and she was in bed she left her maruana, handbag ect on the table so she had smoked again. I tidied up and went to bed.
Monday
This morning she had got up and showered before I came down and she stayed in her room for a bit. When she came down she walked around the table to come and sit next to me to put her shoes on. (instead of on the opposite sofa like I expected) we chatted briefly. She said she was working until 6, she asked me if I was in or out - I said i didn't know and asked her - she said she had no plans.
There are also a number of inconsistencies in what W has said such as me not being invited to the B'day party (we both were and we had to sort it between us) She said that me friend at the wedding followed her out a pushed her a bit to speak whereas he said he was outside and she came out and told everything when he asked what was going on. She said that he understands about us whereas he actually doesn't. and so on I have not heard anything from lawyers, the marriage cert is in her car, she has not moved anything else out yet (and if she does move out she will leave all furniture at home until she is sorted) She is supposed to move to her parents this week but dunno.
Is this going good or bad or what? if anyone can give me an indication of what I am doing is working that would be cool and any advice on how to move forward. Also any WAW's able to provide insight into what 'stage' she is in (if at all).
Cheers all and best wishes
Gavin
W phoned me last night to say she was delayed at work as somone had a car accident, I told her to text me when she was on the way home, shich she did (I was out & friends for dinner).
I came home and we chatted for a while before she got in the bath, she asked me to make coffee and put the fire on downstairs while she was doing that.
When she came downstairs she sat next to me on the sofa (I was expecting her to sit by the fire) and we chatted nicely (no OR talk)for a while longer (about 1.5 hours in total) before going to bed in our respective rooms.
This morning as I went downstairs she said 'Morning, coffe please' in a light nice tone that she used to speak to me with, I made coffee and she asked me to roll her a cigarette, I did, she sat next to me again and we chatted for a bit, she said, just as an aside, that she didn't get any texts from anyone (her friends) last night and no one loves her (I didn't say anything :)even though I felt like saying, I do). She said she finishes at 18:00 so will see me later then went to work.
Seems positive so far but I am wary, my ultimate goal is for her to recommit to our relationship and marriage but I am meeting my current goals of spending more time together and talking about rubbish and her being at home a bit more & her sitting with me on the same sofa.
Not sure how to progress at the moment, my mum and little sister think that she is slowly coming back to me. She has certainly changes a bit over the last week.
Any advice on how it os going or what I need to do moving forward? I have improved myself a lot, lost weight got more toned, on AD's and I am good again
Advice still appreciated.
Cheers all and hope you are moving forward.
Gavin
Hello GavinO,
I am by no means a wise DBer but if you find what you're doing is working then keep doing it at all costs. Don't for a minute change tack if what you're doing is giving you the results that you want.
From what I am reading, the more "to the letter" you stick to DBing principles i.e. doing what works and rejecting what does not, the greater the odds of success. I hope that one of these days we both become living proof of that.
best,
GH31
Hi all,
Spoke with W briefly when she came in this eve, she was on the phone to her mum and talking about moving there, I overheard her talking about the issues such as having no room to put all her stuff or her clothes (she has 2 full wardrobes) and being able to afford it as she will have to keep paying for our house and her friends are miles away etc. I am hoping that some of the reality of her decision is starting to hit her.
She called me down for a quick chat before she went out and basically just said that she probably won't move out as she can't afford it. She was off out this eve with one of her girlfriends and she will be staying away but back early tomorrow morning.
My thoughts on this:
I want to save our marriage and relationship BUT I WILL NOT HAVE MY WIFE BEING 'SINGLE' AND USING OUR HOUSE AS A HOTEL OR SOMETHING. I believe either she stays and we work on our marriage OR she leaves and sorts herself out, if she can't afford it then tough! its her decision and she has 'thought about it for a while' and 'planned it' so shoudl have thought about these sorts of things.
It is either her taking the p!ss somewhat or a more subtle way of maybe bridging our relationship and again coming back to me, our marriage and relationship.
How should I view this? if anyone can provide any guidance or insight I would be grateful as I am not sure how to progress.
Cheers all
Gavin
Bump
Any advice or guidance is appreciated as I am unsure of what to do or how to read the signals. So far nothing else has come of the divorce papers and she seems to have backed out of moving out and there have been some more positive things (more time together, sitting together her going out slightly less etc) but there has been no physical contact for 7 weeks and does not seem to be any move to resolve our relationship.
The main positives have only been fairly recent
I am not sure what to do, am I trying to run before I can walk, is it comming together and I'm not seeing it or what.
I am confused and woudl appreciate the 'outside looking in' view as it will help.
Cheers
Gavin
Gavin,
I'm pulling for you bud. You can do it. It sounds like there are good days and bad days but you have to look at your trend. It's gong up. She may even try to divorce you just for effect. Stay strong, don't react. Be that rock in her life but don't be overbearing. Keep up the good work. I wouldn't worry about the physical part, it will come. Your sacrifices will pay off. You are stronger than primordial urges. You are a TRUE man. I would trade spots with you in an instant regarding the status of your R. Don't get discourages.
Hi Germ, thanks for the encouragement, I spoke with W briefly this eve, she can't move to her parents due to space but she said that she will sort something out.
There doesnt seem to be any movement or remorse or second thoughts or anything and if i'm honest I am getting very resentful, how she can just chuck it all in without a second thought about us and everything that we stood for.
I asked her if she wanted to do dinner on Sunday (as in us together not her cooking lol) and she was indifferent and said she doesn't know her plans. She asked if I was going out tomorrow I said no and asked her, she said she had no plans, I asked if she wanted a chilled one (together) and she said maybe but was a bit indifferent still. She is out Saturday and is at a party (drungs and booze probably) and she said she will share a bed with a girlfriend as its safe.
I am getting p!ssed off with the lack of everything from her and I am thinking of doing an extreme 180 and chucking our wedding pics in the bin, dropping my household payments by 1/3, marching her to her solicitors to get an agreement done there and then, packing her stuff and telling her to F*ck off.
Some of you have the occasional positive from them wanting to do something with the M, I have had nothing like that and to be fair it is an overreaction to a bad year. But there is NOTHING from her to indicate that she wants to do anything.
I want to save it but for f*ck sake she could at least throw a bone!!!!!!
I don't know how much longer I can keep going with practically nothing from her part of me thinks I should just go and find someone else and leave her to her miserable b4stard life if that is what she wants.
Its not what I want but it takes 2 to at least try and make a go of it, perhaps if I force her hand it may come good, maybe I just move out and start a new life without her and let the house get reposessed and we lose everything (won't get much from a D settlement anyway).
Really am frustrated and looking for a reason to keep bangng my head against a brick wall with no give.
I think maybe one reason you have not received more responses than you have is that people just don't know what to say other than what has already been said. The girl is in crisis. She is self destructing before everyone's eyes and nobody seems to be helping her. She is taking drugs, drinking, and having sex (?) but not sure cause she can't remember?
You are expecting some kind of magic to happen and it isn't going to b/c she is in bad shape. This is not the more normal (if there is any) WAW b/c of what has brought this on. Her excuses doesn't hold water b/c she is searching for some reasons to give you for being a bad H. You say you have been a good H except for one year (if I read correctly). If this is not normal behavior for your W, why in heaven's name has somebody not helped her? It sounds like she needs an intervention program.
You are very, very angry with her and I don't know that you are in the right frame of mind to work with her on healing the MR right now......I'm not blaming you for being angry, but I am just saying that I personally believe she needs medical attention before you can put the M back together. Who knows what all she may be taking when she goes out to these "parties"? Doesn't her family see that she is on a downward spiral and despartely needs help?
This is just MHO, but I think you could work on yourself till the cows came home and it won't change her mind about the M until she gets the right kind of help. I also think you have been too focused on the wrong things about the stitch. Perhaps I did not state that very well. I just mean that you are so frustrated that you have gotten to the place you can't think straight. Both of you need somebody from the outside to come in and help you. But, I am very concerned for her. She must receive help soon before it's too late.
Hi Sandi, thanks for your reply.
She seems to have calmed down on the drugs and drinking somewhat (she is out on Sat for a smoke) and I doubt very much about the sex thing, I think it was just a hurtful comment. There is no one else at this time.
She just seems set on it and thats it and just cannot be bothered/doesn't want to sort it out. I love her dearly but she is killing it somewhat though I refuse to give in. In fact if anyone should want to chuck it in then it should be me because of how she has been over the last 7 weeks.
I don't know a small part of me wants to do a scorched earth policy and destroy everything, but nearly all of me wants to save our M.
I have come a long way and my friends respect that and my commitment to saving our M.
I just don't know and can't understand where and why we are here, yes we have had a bad year but WTF!
One of my 180's was doing the majority of the housework but she said i was doing a poor job.
I am hoping it is just a phase and she comes out of it but this is soo hard, as there is just nothing, some of you at least get some small positive comments, or occasional hug/kiss or something.
Maybe I shoudl bring a large dose of reality to hit her squarely.
I just don't know but still care.
Help
Your frustrations, her seeming indifference, the desire to just say f**k it -- I know exactly how you feel. But you need to decide if you still want to save your M. If you do, try to be patient and persistent. Right now she is trying to convince herself that the course of action she is taking is justified. You can't change her mindset. But if the cloud lifts, sanity returns, and you are there -- solid, stable, an oasis -- she will see you and you still have a chance.
Hang in there.
I am, its just hard. I really want to save our marriage and relationship and don't understand the mentality behind throwing in the towel. We have had great times in the past and can have even better ones in the future. She decided on divorce on 3/Feb and told our friends & others on the 5/Feb for instance.
Really, really hard (I know that there are others out there who's situations are far worse than mine and my heart goes out to them)
I don't understand it either. I have notes, cards, and emails as recently as 2 months before the bomb - all expressing her deep love and devotion. Then the bomb - we are too different, I don't have the same feelings for you, no point in trying, yada yada yada. Unfathomable. If you figure it out, let the rest of us know.
Gavin,
I stopped responding because I didn't know what else to say.
Sandi is right I feel in saying
something is causing your W to self destruct. I know you disagree with me but my best guess is it's an OP. Maybe she's not involved with them yet or thay are M'd too but her lack of knowing what she is doing all the time makes me feel she is waiting on someone else. That's why she blows hot and cold - doesn't know if she can do sunday dinner as she may get a better offer yet - if the better offer can free up their day???
I am just guessing - but that's what it feels like to me.
Your W is in turmoil for SOME reason. No-one knows why; she will hit the bottom eventually and it will come out. I just hope my feelings about it are wrong. I have been reading along and when you posted about the 'sex' comment she threw out my tummy flipped. She is testing you.
I am sorry you are experiencing this pain - I know how much these things hurt.
I know we are not meant to snoop etc - but as someone whose H did have an A, I would be snooping in your position just to find out where I stood. My H told me about his A because I hadn't snooped - apparently he had been leaving me clues and I never picked up on them. He was trying to get me to see so that I would stop it all!!!! I was just a bit too trusting to realise. I know that is not the most common sitch tho' so factor in my experiences when reading my post.
From what I understand she is spending time with her sister, and a couple of girlfriends from work (all smoke).
As I said I am hoping it is a phase and she will come out of it, A few months ago she was trying really hard and I was unresponsive (depression) and she said that if I/we didn't sort it out by Feb the house will be sold. This was somewhat unfair as I was in no real position to respond well and went further downhil (more depression). Since she went for D I sorted myself out, I have got AD's and I have stopped smoking maruana as well (yes I did and we did together but she did not smoke much) and feel much better for it.
Maybe I just need to wait for her like she waited for me, its just we didn't get to the same place at the same time and I just have to hang in there until she does.
I have done some snooping (bad eh) and have not come accross anything that would suggest anything, though I am not sure what to look for.
She starts a new job next month and will be away from her work friends (the deadbeat ones) she also hates her job so this may bring a bit of clarity to her I hope.
You guys provide great support and my Mum and sister have been rocks for me, they want W and I to stay together. I will continue improving myself, keep up my 180's and make our home comfortable so its a nice place for me W.
9 weeks in so far, gonna hang in there, as it is all too much to lose. The rollercoaster is not so fun at times but may we all end on a high.
How is she testing me with the 'sex' thing may I ask? and what do I do (I think it was just a hurtful comment mind as she was in a bit of a stroppy mood)
Saffie, Sandi thank you for your responses and your interest, they help greatly.
Gavin,
I seem to remember you posting about her commenting on having sex when she was out - don't you think that was to see your reaction????
Is your W still smoking maruana? Can't it make one paranoid about stuff? I guess it's something to factor in.
I think the change in job thing sounds great - well worth waiting to see what happens then.
Hi Saffie (I think your name is great)
Yes, when I asked her about her evening a week or so ago she said she 'Got drugs and had sex' i repeated this back to her as I was listening and she said 'what do you think' She was in a bit of a stroppy mood (drug related comedown or hangover or something maybe?)
She is still smoking though I think it is a bit less than she was somewhat, she is out on Saturday for a smoke round one of her friends.
Glad you like the name!!!! If you knew the real one
One of the folks on here googled my real name and it took them to a porn site - and NO NO NO it REALLY wasn't my site!!!!!
Gavin,
I'm here for your daily cheer up. You will do well. Guys, I could really use a friend right now. I'm really lost with my situation. I'm very close to getting divorced. NC for 3 months. She is continually threating that I am "stalking" her through her lawyer. Honestly, the only thing I have done is checked her e-mail once since I filed. That revealed all of her darkness. Lesbian trysts and even inquiring about being an escort. Wow...
Gavin,
Whats new with your life? Is it any better?