Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: JJAC2005 Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 02/26/13 06:42 PM
The one thing that I am having such a hard time understanding is when you are already divorced and your ex has walked away, and is saying that she is all done with the relationship, that its over, and that you need to let go and move on, and she has no intentions of ever revisiting the relationship ever again. Your basically in a situation where there isn't anything that the 2 of you have that keeps even the slightest bit of interaction. example; we don't share any children, she refuses to let the children continue with any type of relationship that we shared over the past 7.5 years, everything has been divided up, there are no more things that have to be discussed on a personal or financial level.
There is just me, left loving someone who no longer wants anything to do with me....

All the DB'ing I've been doing and reading are fantastic tools to have and practice, but there really isn't any way to use them if the person they are intended for isn't around.

What type of advice would best serve this situation?
Posted By: needgrace Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 02/26/13 08:29 PM
hi JJ,

i am close to your sitch in that my D is almost done and there is little that ties me to W now. for me, i have been using my DB skills and other things i have gathered along the way to build a new life and to be ready for my next R. there were mistakes i made and i have hopefully learned from them and i have also learned that i need to make myself happy... not depend on my R for that. i think the biggest thing i have learned is to accept what is and to let go... so for now i am letting go, allowing myself to grieve but not allowing my grief to stop me from living.

as far as my W, though we have minimal contact... she knows the heart and soul of me from our M and if she gets past the anger and fear...she may remember that and miss it.. or she may not, she may have found the R of her dreams, and if so, while it hurts, i do want her to be happy..

in some ways, though i have lost my M, i feel as if i have saved myself. i don't think there is much else that could have given me so much growth..

not sure if that is what you are asking, JJ... but that is what works for me.
Posted By: 4311 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 02/27/13 01:49 AM
You ask what type of advice would best serve this situation. I would suggest asking a different question: What type of advice would best serve YOU in this situation. Seemingly only slightly different but takes you down an entirely different road. I understand where you are and what you seek. We all do. But it is very early in the game and what you should be seeking to reclaim at this point is yourself rather than the relationship.

Like many people I would assume you somewhat lost yourself in the relationship, especially during the end going through the separation and divorce. I know you have a goal of where you want to go but do you really know where you are now? Many people learn a lot about themselves during a divorce. Many people fall "asleep" during a relationship. Other than getting back with your ex what else do you want? Is there anything else?

I know that it is very difficult to think of anything but getting back together. Does it happen, yes, it happens. Does it happen with the state you are in now, rarely. Look at it like this - reconciliations do happen but healthy ones usually happen when both people have disconnected from the unhealthy previous relationship, have grown, and have been disconnected enough to honestly feel how it is to be alone and without their former partner.

Lastly, for now, you note how the two of you have no reason to stay connected in anyway in your daily life and are concerned as to how to keep some type of connection to keep the potential of getting back together real. My ex and I originally had a whole country between us and we ended up marrying each other when we previously lived 1000's of miles apart. We also ended up getting divorced when lived inches apart. Time, distance, space, lack of contact - none of these things can keep two people apart if there is a connection.

I hit on a number of points here - try to think about them and see if anything resonates with you.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 03/05/13 02:11 PM
Even your struggles become a blessing…..keep one foot in front of the other!


Well to be honest, I’ve been thinking about this post now for several days….I’m not sure just exactly how to say this, but my question seems to have missed its mark. I see that it was not quite the right context, to elicit the types of reply/response I was hoping for.
To answer the first comment, and thank you N.G…[as far as my W, though we have minimal contact... she knows the heart and soul of me from our M and if she gets past the anger and fear...she may remember that and miss it.. or she may not, she may have found the R of her dreams, and if so, while it hurts, i do want her to be happy.] I’m not at all worried that my “ex” will never look back on any of our times together without a smile, or a laugh or a warm thought. Quite the opposite, I know she will, and she probably has already, but she is using her anger to get her to where she thinks she needs to be. Be that what it may, (just as you mentioned above) she also knows my heart, and my head, and in many ways, all of my hopes and dreams. But I know that her main focus is and has been on the failures shortcomings, wrongs, and all of my “collective” mistakes that have caused her so much pain and doubt. Which is why she (IMO) she is trying so hard to get over me and strive for a new and fresh direction. And just as you, I will second that I want her to be happy, healthy and wish only the best for her and the kids, even if that choice isn’t me.
To follow on the 2nd comment, and thank you 4311, [Like many people I would assume you somewhat lost yourself in the relationship, especially during the end going through the separation and divorce. I know you have a goal of where you want to go but do you really know where you are now? Many people learn a lot about themselves during a divorce. Many people fall "asleep" during a relationship. Other than getting back with your ex what else do you want? Is there anything else?] Lost, OMG was I lost! I have to admit I slipped, fell, and struggled to get back, up, slipped and fell again repetedly since the get go. I allowed things, all sorts of things, to change my direction, my goals, my outlooks, and as soon as I started to fight for me (mostly in the wrong ways), I found a solid wall of discourse in my partner. Her fears of me and my independence, brought up fears of abandonment in her mind, and of course, the more I sought to find answers (in all of my unusual ways) in how to regain my life, how to be better for my wife, my kids, and my marriage, the more I sent messages to my wife that I wasn’t in to her and our marriage. On the flip side of that slide, and struggle to find a better balance with me again, I found a love that I can never replace, never duplicate, and a richness of a family that grew with every passing year. Something so unexplainably amazing, that I wanted to watch grow in the ears to come, it was something that I never wanted to end.
[I know that it is very difficult to think of anything but getting back together. Does it happen, yes, it happens. Does it happen with the state you are in now, rarely. Look at it like this - reconciliation’s do happen but healthy ones usually happen when both people have disconnected from the unhealthy previous relationship, have grown, and have been disconnected enough to honestly feel how it is to be alone and without their former partner.] I couldn’t agree more with this point about being a healthy me for any possibilities of a chance to get that second chance. And I’m happy to say, I’m well on my way! I have so many things going well in my life currently. My GAL plan is unfolding in so many positive ways that I am amazed at how great things are going. But it doesn’t change the fact that I miss my wife and family each and every day.
That being said…..it sort of brings me back to the beginning of my quest….with all her anger and pain in or with our past relationship….with her disconnecting as she has and dissolving any and all contact with her and the children….there really isn’t anything left for me to do, but continuing to work on me, my life, and furthering the enrichment of my soul and relationship skills.
I hear it all the time, and see it here off and on, as long as you have hope you always have a chance….but its hard to form a plan without a sign from the intended that something is either working or it isn’t.
I am learning and practicing patience….I am learning and practicing so many new skills…..I am learning to be more introspection, living a authentic life, and really can say I have learned from all of the mistakes I have made…..I am becoming the man I wanted to be from the very beginning, and I can only hope that someday she turns around to take notice and gives me that one chance to start to show her how much I have changed and all that I have learned.
I wanted to know from others what their ideas were/are on a situation such as mine, and how to proceed with positive results.?
Posted By: Pmac21 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 03/07/13 04:29 PM
JJ, I really love your thread! Like you, I had a WAW and like you, I want her back with all my heart. Unfortunately I did everything wrong once I found out about her affair & MLC. I begged for her, displayed all the wrong needy traits, etc. We were married 13 years and I truly did not see it coming. Our M was not perfect, but whose is, right? What I didn't realize until it was too late was the gripes she had about the marriage were really big deals to her.

The classic WAW is someone who appears to just leave without much warning (or have an affair, then leave). Our sitches are a little different because mine had an affair and it doesn't look like yours did (but do you really know for sure).

The point is that there was enough bothering our exes that they felt leaving the marriage was better than trying to repair it. I'm like you, I was in it until death do us part. And, I would have done anything to fix it.

I agree that it blows when we still want to reconcile but our exes have moved on. Look, I have read way too many stories on this site and others about being patient, praying, getting our lives back on track, and reconciliations still happen months of years after the D is final. I am going to keep praying for divine intervention, but I'm going to live the life that God would want me to live until it occurs.

I'm struggling with detachment at the moment but I am as hopeful as ever that real progress is right around the corner for me. I am so inspired by how you are doing. I hope to get there soon. One of the biggest issues for me was that a couple of weeks before I found out about her affair, I took a one year severance package from my high paying job. Unbelievably, I haven't found work over a year later in this economy.

Part of me thinks that she no longer sees me as the wealthy, confident man I always was. Getting my career back on track is a top priority and will need a little luck & help from God.

I look forward to encouraging you as you attempt to reconcile with your ex. Bert if luck.
Posted By: Pmac21 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 03/07/13 04:41 PM
JJ, in all that, I forgot to give you my advice. I would stay the course you are on. What is the current contact w/ your ex? I realize that you have to be very careful as to not come across as pursuing, but I would think that there would need to be some mild contact so she can notice all your new changes.

Do you have a plan at this point? And have you read through the MLC boards here? I wonder if your ex was going through something. Hormones can go bonkers around 40 as well.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 03/10/13 12:14 PM
Thanks for the time to share a word...
I think the key underlying themes I am learning are patience patience and more patience, with a whole lot of 180's, But the best lesson is that by GAL is you not only feel better overall, you look better overall and whether the ex notices enough down the road, only time will tell.
I am a little discouraged at the fact that there isn't any contact, or reason to be contact from her perspectives ....and I did just find out that she does in fact have a new B.F.
That being said, staying the course is seeming a little less likely to produce a new star at any new beginnings.
I do know that she still has a lot to work though...as do I
Im just not at all interested in seeing anyone because I still am in love with my ex.
I would welcome any more feedback on plans to a successful reunion
Posted By: Pmac21 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 03/10/13 04:28 PM
JJ, btw, I'm right with you on not wanting a new relationship. Although my ex played the field quite a bit before settling in w/ her current BF, I'm just different, I guess. Even though the chances if any reconciliation appear to be remote at best, taking my time feels right to me too. Keep us posted.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 03/10/13 11:10 PM
I wanted to see/know if you had any statistics on remarrying your ex spouse?
I read somewhere that the statistics for divorce are (approx.) 52% for the 1st, 64%for the 2nd, and 73% for 3rd marriages….but the odds for a successful reunification with your former spouse shot up to a 74% chance of success, based on both partners doing their own work, changes and healing prospectively, as well as having a strong love bond to reconnect with.
Do you have any ideas, thoughts and or resources for this type of reconciliation?

Well, this weekend was filled with all sorts of interesting coincidences…
I had a faith filled weekend retreat….scheduled as a “Christ Renews” weekend, which was overflowing with personal testimony on how God and faith brought people thru various difficulties.
I have been exploring joining the Catholic Church since early January, and during this lent season it has been a particularly meaningful event for me.
There is a lot of correlation between the reconciliation with God, and within our relationships…. particularly my past marriage.
I see the need for forgiveness to be extended, asked for, internalized and utilized in every aspect of my ex’s actions over the past several months with any of my genuine efforts to maintain any sort of civility between us, and my efforts to maintain a relationship with my step-children.
It is almost as if God is playing a hand in any of my reconnecting efforts currently…he is either letting me know that…(1) I’m not in a place solid enough for reconnecting with my ex yet….(2) My ex is not in a place that she needs to be to reconnect with yet….or… (3) The entire reunion isn’t meant to be?
We all search for the answer…we all long to hear what we want to hear…and when it come to the unknown factors that be, we baulk at giving up control……and for any of you that are in a similar boat as I am….I have one little piece if advice for you in the form of a prayer.
God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Sometimes word really hit the mark!
Amen.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 03/12/13 02:16 PM
OK fellow DB's
Admittedly, the situation I am in has its own unique set of problems and solutions....but I would enjoy actually reading some more success stories from those that came to DB site and were already divorced, and managed to piece things back together.
From what I gather, I am in a statistically small group....
Perhaps this is due to the fact that it hasn't had a lot of research done on it or that it really hasn't had much attention as a desired topic of discussion. I find that there are way more people out there that are of the mind set, that if it didn't work the first time let it go, and move on from it....why take the chance of getting burned by the same person again?
Anyway, my mindset is one of hope....hope that the love that once knew will someday rise again and deliver an amazingly richer life for both my wife and I.
I realize "hope" is all I really have at this point, which is one of the reasons I am looking for more stories and research on this topic. So, if anyone can drop me a few threads, or directions, or even if you want to comment with some advice or encouragement. I welcome it...and thank you for it!
Posted By: Pmac21 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 03/14/13 09:21 PM
JJ, it looks like I'm still on moderation so I don't know when this will post, but I wanted to thank you for posting this:

"It is almost as if God is playing a hand in any of my reconnecting efforts currently…he is either letting me know that…(1) I’m not in a place solid enough for reconnecting with my ex yet….(2) My ex is not in a place that she needs to be to reconnect with yet….or… (3) The entire reunion isn’t meant to be?
We all search for the answer…we all long to hear what we want to hear…and when it come to the unknown factors that be, we baulk at giving up control……and for any of you that are in a similar boat as I am….I have one little piece if advice for you in the form of a prayer.

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference."

As you know, I am in the same boat as you. I think we should communicate it directly that we forgive them for their actions (if there were any) and that we want to reconcile but we cannot be their friend (friend zoning is a big no-no as it only allows them to use us so they can heal emotionally). Then we must detach and move on. They will have to either get to the point that they miss us & the life we shared and contact us to ask for reconciliation or they will move on. That is placing it in God's hands.

I feel there is something to what I read on these boards about how people can't miss you if you're still around. The other way I've heard it said is that a dog doesn't chase a parked car. Meaning, if we move on with our lives and get happy (what God wants for us), there is a chance our ex's might get re-attracted to us at some point down the road.

Needy, clingy, desperate behaviors are clearly unattractive. And, some of our ex's have personality disorders, going through MLCs, etc. that were at the root of why their feelings changed or fueled their affairs and/ or their current thinking. These dysfunctions can make it nearly impossible to get them to change their minds in the short term. Some build up an emotional wall around their decisions and will refuse to be deterred from the course they've set, no matter how damaging to themselves, their children, or their ex's it is. Their selfishness is really hard to fathom. Which begs the question, why do we still want these former partners? For me, it's my faith in God. The Bible tells us that if we should not divorce and if we do, we should reconcile with our spouse.

Trust me when I tell you that your ex cannot possibly have anywhere near the relationship with her BF that you did over the 8 years you were together. But, her "need" to end your marriage and to get into another relationship, the luster of the honeymoon period, and the chemicals that are released during this phase of the relationship are going to be far stronger than anything you can do by trying to bargain with her through pursuing her. She has to come to you.

I don't have any threads with examples of folks who have rekindled after D, but you should be able to find them if you look. It usually takes a catalyst though. Some of the catalysts I have found are things like the WAW having a financial or other hardship that returns them to their ex or they go through a BU with a rebound relationship and begin to see their former marriage in a different light. Others (far fewer) have an epiphany for what was lost and simply long for their ex and re-connect.

For me, the WAW who reaches out to their ex is the best scenario because they have clear interest in possibly rekindling. For you and me, we are in situations where our ex's are nowhere near wanting us back. The only thing we can do for now is all the DB stuff like GAL, 180 (hard to do when you're in LC/ NC), etc. Essentially absence has to make their hearts grow fonder or it wasn't meant to be. I'm in a little better position than you because I will see my ex from time to time because of our girls (even though we exchange them at her Mom's so I don't have to actually see her; helps my healing).

This is important for you to know: For months during & up to about 7 mos after the D was final, I was in frequent contact with her (although we were physically separated) over a wide range of topics (including telling her how much I missed her, wanted her back, etc.). NONE of this worked. Actually, I think it pushed her further into her new BFs arms! There have been some extended periods of LC here and there (particularly within the last 2 months) where I just learned from my daughter that "it drives Mom crazy when I don't return her text messages". Furthermore, after we had a minor disagreement over text, she asked me not to be mad and asked me to please not go into "no communication again". The bottom line is that the better I get at detaching from her, the more interested she has in why, and she always tries hard to reestablish a dialog with me, even if she has to use the girls to do so.

In my situation, my ex has been extremely used to me being an important part of her life, even during and after the divorce. By my "being there" for her over the past 11 months, I never allowed her to fall on her face & miss me and I made the transition to life without me easier for her. Meanwhile, she continued to build her relationship with her BF behind the scenes and just when I'm getting better at implementing LC, he's in a position to take over the emotional support I was being used for. I was an idiot. Don't make the same mistake.

Keep us up-to-date on your progress.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 03/19/13 02:19 AM
Can someone touch on back sliding emotions ??
PLEASE!

I seem to get thru about 2 or 3 weeks of NO contact....thinking I'm doing really great, then I get a whopper of a memory tug and seem to be at the beginning stages of missing the family all over again.
Just [censored] to start to get 2 steps fwd then 3 back....wanting to try to force a fix in there somewhere (knowing damn well it wouldn’t work and probably do the opposite).
The situation is what it is, I am divorced, and the ex has moved on to another relationship...its obvious now....and she basically has asked that I do the same, not wanting to allow any room for any type of friendships to develop (my thoughts are she’s afraid of weakening) or allowing a continued relationships with the kids that I have gotten so close to for the past 7 plus years(She's definately trying to hit me where it hurts, but again, my gut tells me she’s also protecting herself).
Whenever I see another family enjoying a fun activity together I think of how much fun we all use to have doing similar things.

So for those of you that have been here....what might I do or try to do differently that will ease these periods of raw emotion?
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 03/19/13 02:18 PM
as a follow up...and to expand a bit further on the contact I mention above. I have always tried to respect her wishes for space, never really pushing back very hard, but as it turns out in the past 3 months I have reached out to her in a very minimal way to offer a gesture of friendship.
I know that it was the opposite (on my list of 180's) of what I should have done, but does anyone really think that I have already wrecked any possible future contacts from her way?
True love is wanting only the best for her....and I do...even if it hurts that she is able to move on to another relationship.
I realize that the kids are fine with their mother, but wonder about how much they might miss or think of me?
Posted By: Cadet Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 03/19/13 06:49 PM
Originally Posted By: JJAC2005
I know that it was the opposite (on my list of 180's) of what I should have done, but does anyone really think that I have already wrecked any possible future contacts from her way?

The best way I can answer this question is to say that you can not speed up this process.
However you can slow it down.

So did you wreck any possible future contact from her, probably not.
It is possible when this is all over she will not even remember 1/2 of what happened.

BUT - Are you slowing down when you are going to get to that point. - YES!

Begging, pleading, pursuing will slow down both her healing and your healing.

Best to speak through your ACTIONS not your words.

Let the results speak for themselves.

I hope that makes more sense.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 03/28/13 02:18 PM
I'm having a pretty shitty week....6months post good-bye!
I just don't get it....I don't get how I can have so many positive things happening for me and my life and still be so miserable (at times) in my heart about missing my wife and family. (God, Do I miss those kids!)
The thoughts never seem to leave me for very long....and although I do still have "hope" for a second chance....I'm not very confident or optimistic about getting one.
Posted By: 4311 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 03/30/13 03:06 AM
Originally Posted By: JJAC2005
I just don't get it....I don't get how I can have so many positive things happening for me and my life and still be so miserable (at times) in my heart about missing my wife and family.


Why do you find it so difficult? Why don't you "get it"? Life, most lives, are very complicated and intricate creatures. Our minds are never far from analyzing multiple aspects of our daily lives to a fault. Indeed, these thoughts are usually overlapping and fighting to gain priority and significance. Add to that the highly stressing times of a major life change and we're lucky we make it through the day!

Seriously though, the thoughts and feeling you are having are natural and expected - and they can be healthy as well. It depends on the frame of mind you choose to hold and the actions you choose to take (yes, it's a choice). You sound like you are working on many positive things - keep at it. You also sound like you get dragged down by missing you family - completely understandable.

Work at understanding the roots of your thoughts, creating goals to reach for, and...and...understanding the connections and feelings we have for others in our lives don't simply disappear - nor would we want them to...
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 04/01/13 06:02 PM
What is everyone's best way to keep from back-sliding?
Posted By: whitneypinch Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 04/01/13 06:06 PM
Boy, is that the $100,000. question !!

Try to keep as busy as possible.
When you feel you are going to backslide contact others on this board.

When all else fails, know that you are a human and it's going to happen from time to time.
If it happens, dust yourself off, forgive yourself as it did not destroy anything and learn from it.

Today will be better.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 04/06/13 01:30 PM
I was just blessed with a surprised chance encounter with my 12 year old step son. (yesterday)
He was playing with a friend at the corner of a street by a park near the place I was dog sitting for a friend of mine...not to far from our old home. I was driving down this street and as I approached I recognized that it was him and he recognized it was me, and I had to stop and say hello....It had been 6 months since we had seen each other. As I got out of my car, he was running across the street to greet me, huge hugs...huge smiles...I miss you, love you so much dad, I think about you all the time we both exchanged the exact same sentiments about how much we missed each other.
I was excited and nervous about seeing him in person like this, as I know his mother had set up blocks to prevent him from contacting me.
Besides the fact that this was a great moment of joy and happiness for both of us in just a brief (way too Brief) 10 min reunion....I cam away from it ecstatic! And as it turns out for more that a couple of reasons.
The obvious was that I found out that both him and his sister still miss me, and think about and talk about me all the time, and had often asked if they could still see me. (they still love me!)
Secondly I found out that he is an amazingly insightful young m man for 12, as he explained why mom had told him he couldn't see me during that time frame, as mom needed her space(for what, I don't really know but can guess). But he still has my number and will wait till he has the ok to call me...
He also told me that mom had been sad and depressed at times, and when I asked him what about he said she missed me. (proof that WAW do have feelings)
I was curious as to that response of his observation because I have know her to be in a relationship with another guy just less than 2 months from her ending our contact. And when I inquired about his friend he told me that it was the son of moms new boy friend, and that the boy friend, his daughter and son had come to town to spend spring break with them.
WOW, I thought, that was fast....probably way too fast, but reminded myself that was her choice to make and that's her life, and she's in charge of that. But definite proof to me that she is in a full blown rebound relationship that gave her no time to reflect, but only helped her to block out her pain.

I had a great moment yesterday and don't want to analyses it to death here, but I believe that I can take away some pretty positive signs and know with out a doubt now that I am still thought of fondly, missed deeply and still loved in various ways by what was my family.
Keeping hope alive....without expectations...can get trying to us all! And all we want is a sign that its worth it!
Learning patience, keeping my distance, until otherwise invited for change and sticking to making myself even better is the best reward of all.
That in itself is worth it...no matter what happens!
Posted By: whitneypinch Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 04/06/13 01:44 PM
Wow, that was a great post.
I LOVE this site for exactly that.

Thanks JJAC2005 !

May times our minds jump to the worst case scenario. It's nice when the negative "stories" we believe in our heads turns out to be not so negative in real life.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 04/09/13 01:30 PM
A few months before I even heard of DB's I was looking at various connections with thoughts and behaviors of people effected by personality disorders. I am a former counselor for an in-patient mental health facility and it just made sense to me to look deeper into the connections between the way my wife (ex) and I viewed things and what she said, and how she ended things the way she did in the end.
That research eventually led me to a few articles online at Psychology Today about Marry, Divorce, Reconcile....and since I was recently divorced, I was searching for all sorts of answers to the questions I had running thru my brain. The main thing I got out of that was that after reading DR, the woman in the article presented her findings to her husband (6 months post divorce), along with her rational for all of the why's and her sincere heartfelt apologizes for the way things had ended up the way that they did, and they eventually they began to piece and recover their R to the point were they remarried a year later.
Talk about inspired....wow...I thought to myself if they could do it I could do it. After-all, my situation wasn't even close to being as bad as theirs was...so ....that led me to about 80$ worth of books on marriage and relationships. The main one being Divorce Remedy...which led me to here and this site, and basically where I am today in my process.
Soon after that introduction I was given another inspirational book and story of reunification from a family member with a very different perspective, but with some similar underlying strategies. It was a story of a husband and wife reuniting after 7 years post divorce base on a deep Christian connection. The book was titled "I do Again" b Jeff and Cheryl and Jeff Scruggs.
As in the other situation, the woman presented her findings, as well as professions of change and desires for reconciliation....and eventually it did happen, it just went a lot longer time frame.

So where am I going with this you might be thinking....
I basically did some similar blends of both examples as well as following the advice of my DB coach (Jody is great BTW, however, in my letter to my ex, I only released my own faults and responsibilities and gave her the acceptance that it was over.
I have never begged her to come back or be taken back, but I in the beginning, have asked to at least be friendly and have a few chances to talk about things...as well as see the children....all of which have been denied, and met with a lot of anger as well as a "let me make this perfectly clear" response from her for me to move on, and leave her and the children alone.

I am in a place now where I am working daily on my GAL, my 180's, my health, ect. and trying to stay hopeful, and basically things are going along pretty well for me on the outside.....on the inside I still have my days, and my demons, and I still miss my family.

The advice I have gotten and for the most part followed, from DB is keep a low profile, minimal to no contact, and make myself better in every way I can...
I just received a reply back from a question i had in the church ministries approach to things and they suggested I write my ex another heartfelt letter, addressing all of my faults, my shortcomings and to express my desires to restore our marriage.

My gut told me that I basically did a little of that already, just that I didn't let it be known to my ex that I am still holding any hope for us.

I wanted to start writing another letter almost immediately, and had visions of her reading it with some sort of positive return....hey, remember I have 2 positive stories from above where it worked...but I'm a realist and I know the odds of that are slim to none, and it probably would produce even more distance since I now know she is moved to a more serious stage in her new relationship.

so..part of this post is venting, part of it is fishing for thoughts and advice on my situation.
Thanks guys!
Posted By: whitneypinch Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 04/09/13 01:53 PM
The hairs on the back of my neck stood up when I read your post.

This past weekend I spent it reading everything I could and I too came across the same articles/stories you did.
I wrote a huge letter to my EX about all that I was sorry for, what I had worked on and included all those articles/stories.
Of course I never sent it.

Over the last 2 months my XW and I have said very complimentary words to each other, hugged for the first time in 5 years, spoke how great of a job we are doing with our kids, both said we were sorry etc....... all the things I have longed for since our split...... except that a month ago she announced to our kids and I she is in a serious relationship. My kids are crushed and having real trouble.

I am sitting here jumping out of my skin as there is NOTHING I can do to facilitate working on our situation. I, like you, have found sooooooo many examples on how and why to fix our relationship, the low odds of new relationships working out, the research and first hand experience of the damage to our kids, etc. ext. BUT YOU KNOW WHAT..... my XW sees things in a completely different light.
She thinks the way our situation is, is great, and she wishes me to move onto another partner.

So there you have it...... I have worked SOOOOO hard to get to this state. I have reached every one of my goals, I have had some nice baby steps from my XW.... and it does not effect ANYTHING.

I am so frustrated right now as well.

So to answer your question... that letter is not going to mean a damn thing to your XW other than probably make her mad.

In the example of the story on Marry, Divorce, Reconcile the woman was the one that went back to her husband to reconcile. She was also the one that had the affair and initiated the divorce.
You and I are the LBS. Nothing will change unless its initiated by our WAW.

I feel for you my friend.... Its soooooo hard to see the possibility and not be able to effect change in our X spouse. We just want them to see what we see, thinking that will be the catalyst to change. It won't
frown
Posted By: whitneypinch Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 04/09/13 03:48 PM
Oh and to add to all of this..... how awful is it for us that desperately miss our kids. Some of us on here are REALLY active with our kids.

My XW has no more anger to me anymore... she has been complimenting me on how great a father I am and how lucky the kids are to have me as their dad.
She is just not interested in a relationship.

I can't say 100% what my XW is thinking now but I can guess she feels badly seeing how much this is now starting to hurt ours kids and me.

Feeling really down today that I can't do a damn thing other than just move forward continuing to be the best I can.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 04/20/13 11:56 AM
I need a little help right now....
I recently came back from a little vacation and am finding a lot of reminders of my wife and family everywhere along the way, and I have a very special date approaching to my "past life" situation as well.
I am feeling the urge to do 2 things....and they both have to do with contact.
I have not reached out in any way to my ex since early March, when I sent her a short little email to inform her that my mother had been hospitalized, to which she expressed a little concern, but didn't offer any more communication other than best wishes and prayers, so its been about 6 weeks (typical urge)
My wife will be having a Birthday coming up in May and while on vacation I thought of a perfect gift, and that sparked me having some sort of delusional fantasy that if I wrote her a short little note to accompany the card, it just might start a little dialog between us. The other form of contact was another attempt at a heartfelt letter about my thoughts and feelings....along with my desires to possibly see the kids again.
Both forms are chances....taking a chance that it could spark something (50/50 either way)
Now aside from my still missing my family my life seems to be picking up, busier and busier with projects, goals are being met, new opportunities popping up, and even more changes coming down the road. So, I have been doing pretty good overall....
I just cant get them out of my mind or heart for very long and honestly don't want to, but the ache still gets to me more than I want to admit.
So, I need to know if patience is my best course (my hardest lesson to learn) or if I send her a little reminder in May for her B-day would be a bad thing?
I'm confident now that she misses me less and less, probably not remotely curious as to what I am doing, so I guess I answered my own question....it wont do any good....but if it wont do any harm, why not take the chance?
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 04/21/13 01:39 PM
OK...2 more thoughts about making offers to reconnect.
I feel that my entire marriage was a prime example of the textbook mistakes people make on their way to a divorces...hence probably why I am divorced. My ex-wife seems to fit into the 2 categories of the WAW, and MLC.
Since we have been divorced she has been dating another guy, Im not sure just how serious it is but its serious enough or comfortable enough for her to move to the stage of introducing their kids to each others kids and spending nights together just over 6 months of me being out of the picture (her choice I know, but I feel its way to fast for the kids). I have for the most part tried to keep my distance, detaching (as much as I can), not be a pursuer, or to pressure her in any way. But some of my limited contact has been met by some angry replies, basically telling me that there is no chance she will ever give me a second chance and that she has moved on, and wants me to do the same.
That being said...I am once again here asking what are my options?
I am for the most part doing pretty well, my GAL is going on as planned, my health and fitness plan has me looking pretty good according to others, and I am getting quite a lot of offers to date if I would like to explore a few other options. However at this point, I'm almost feeling trapped in a state of limbo waiting for the fog to lift on my ex, for her to once again turn around and want to go grab a cup of coffee....or something!

Is there anything, besides waiting it out, GAL, doing work on me for me, doing my 180's, anything else that might be put out there to get a bite or a nibble?
Posted By: Cadet Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 04/21/13 10:06 PM
Lets say that she is in the middle of her MLC, being that you are divorced right now, could I ask why you would want to try to reconnect with her while she is in crisis.

I mean it is like putting a cake in the oven and wanting to eat it 15 mins later.

She and the cake are not yet baked.

You want her back when she is fully baked not before.

The OM is doing you are favor right now, he is taking care of someone in crisis. So what does that say about him?

Does that nake sense?
Posted By: whitneypinch Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 04/21/13 10:12 PM
Cadet,

Thanks for posting wise words.
I too am divorced and my wife just announced she is with someone else.

For the first time I am really trying NC and trying to disconnect.

Thanks for offering an enlightened perspective. It helped me be just a bit stronger to not connect her.
smile
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 04/22/13 12:17 AM
Feeling down was exactly what I was feeling
And probably for exactly the same reasons
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 04/22/13 12:21 AM
I couldn't agree more and I'm smiling at my foolishness
I'm so glad that I posted something and somebody responded because it's just so helpful to gain some insight before we act on anything that we are thinking
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 05/03/13 09:25 PM
I think I may be in need of a few lessons in detachment?
Any suggestions?

I seem to be getting a life ok (albeit alone)….however I am doing a lot more social things and events.
I am still continuing to improve on me and my life…my 180’s…ect
My biggest concerns are that I am still sad about my loss most days (I think of this way more than I want or need to)..…I was thinking or hoping that it would have improved more than what it is by now ….but since the beginning of the nice weather I have been uncovering reminder after reminder of the ex and the kids (seems typical of grief the first year)….the good I take away from all of the pain is that my love for them is deep and very real…..and I know if I am given a second chance I will have all of my ducks in a row, and it will be hard not to notice the changes or improvements…that is if I even get one. (goal “numero uno”, be the type of man that only a fool would walk away from)
I find myself often engaged in some “grandiose” type fantasies about doing this or that and having things play out just perfectly to have my wife and family back….but I keep it all in my head, knowing full well the rules of pursuit and its more likely outcome….lol
At this point, I am still a mostly silent LBS with a “hope” that things change sooner than later….but then again….I know that later would be better for everyone….its just really hard when you ache to be loved and love again that which had gotten so messed up and lost
So…I need a little encouragement, if anyone has anything to pass my way that will help……Thanks
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 05/07/13 12:06 AM
Hey....I found something interesting

"By letting it go, it all gets done. The world is won by those who let it go. But when you try and try the world is beyond the winning."
Detachment is the ability to allow people the freedom to be themselves. It is the ability to hold back from the need to rescue, save or fix another person from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational. It is the ability to develop and maintain a safe, emotional distance from someone whom you have previously given a lot of power to affect your emotional outlook on life.
Detaching is a process by which you are free to feel your own feelings when you see another person falter and fail and not be led by guilt to feel responsible for their failure or faltering - and to place all things in life into a health, rational perspective.
Detachment is the:
 Ability to allow people, places or things the freedom to be themselves
 Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix another person from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational
 Giving another person the space to be himself
 Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with people
 Willingness to accept that you cannot change or control a person
 Developing and maintaining a safe, emotional distance from someone whom you have previously given a lot of power to affect your emotional outlook on life
 Establishing emotional boundaries between you and those people you have become overly enmeshed or dependent with in order that all of you might be able to develop your own sense of autonomy and independence
 Process by which you are free to feel your own feelings when you see another person falter and fail and not be led by guilt to feel responsible for their failure or faltering
 Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing or controlling
 Placing all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective and recognizing that there is a need to back away from the uncontrollable and unchangeable realities of life
 Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to experience greater emotional devastation from having hung on beyond a reasonable and rational point
 Ability to let people you love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to practice tough love and not give in when they come to you to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them
 Ability to allow people to be who they "really are" rather than who you "want them to be"
 Ability to avoid being hurt, abused, taken advantage of by people who in the past have been overly dependent or enmeshed with you
Emotionally detaching requires that you change many of your attitudes, beliefs and behaviors. Detaching is not about enabling someone else; it's about disarming the other person by eradicating his or her ability to hurt you. It's not about changing your behavior so that you don't "trigger" your wife or girlfriend. In fact, if you successfully detach it will probably provoke them to become even more nasty and controlling for a while.
Before you can begin to detach you need to accept the following:
 Love does not conquer all. What you're experiencing in your relationship probably isn't love; it's a distorted and twisted version of it
 You can't fix or rescue someone from being abusive, sick, dysfunctional and lost in their own highly distorted reality. In fact, trying to rescue someone is like trying to rescue a drowning person who is crying for help and then holds you under water until you begin to drown. The more you try to rescue her, the more she'll drag you under
 You give your abusive spouse or partner the power to hurt you
 You can survive and thrive without the relationship. You don't "need" her or him. You had a life before this person and eventually you'll have a much better one
 You are not responsible for your spouses, partner's or ex's happiness, failures, shortcomings or bad behaviors
 The person who you want your spouse or partner to be is in conflict with the person she or he is in reality
 Continuing to hope for the best from someone who consistently gives you the worst is a set-up for more pain and disillusionment
 You are not helpless, powerless and incompetent. The relationship with your abusive spouse or partner causes you to feel that way, which is why it's often so difficult to take care of yourself and break free
 There is no shame in admitting that you need to walk away from a relationship that is destructive and toxic.
 It's vital that you begin to develop a rational perspective and distance yourself from an ongoing hurtful relationship that you can neither control nor change
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 05/07/13 12:09 AM
Negatvie Effects of Not Detaching

If you are unable to detach from people, then you:

■Will have people which become over-dependent on you
■Run the risk of being manipulated to do things for people which you do not really want to do
■Can become an obsessive "fix it" who needs to fix everything you perceive to be imperfect
■Run the risk of performing tasks because of the intimidation you experience from people
■Will most probably become powerless in the face of the demands of the people you have given the power to control you
■Will be blind to the reality that the people which control you are the uncontrollable's you need to let go of if you are to become a fully healthy, coping individual
■Will be easily influenced by the perception of helplessness which these people project
■Might become caught up with your idealistic need to make everything perfect for people important to you even if it means your own life becomes unhealthy
■Run the risk of becoming out of control of yourself and experience greater low self-esteem as a result
■Will most probably put off making a decision and following through on it
■Will be so driven by guilt and emotional dependence that the sickness in the relationship will worsen
■Run the risk of losing your autonomy and independence and derive your value or worth solely from the unhealthy relationship you continue with the unhealthy person
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 05/07/13 12:15 AM
Steps of Detachment...
You find it hard to let go of because it is addictive
The other is emotionally unavailable to you
Coercive, threatening, intimidating to you
Punitive or abusive to you
Non-productive and non-reinforcing for you
Smothering you
Other is overly dependent on you
You are overly dependent on the other
Other has the power to impact your feelings about yourself
Relationship in which you are a chronic fixer, rescuer or enabler
Relationship in which your obligation and loyalty won't allow you to let go
Other appears helpless, lost and out of control
Other is self-destructive or suicidal
Other has an addictive disease
Relationship in which you are being manipulated and conned
When guilt is a major motivating factor preventing your letting go and detaching
Relationship in which you have a fantasy or dream that the other will come around and change to be what you want
Relationship in which you and the other are competitive for control
Relationship in which there is no forgiveness or forgetting and all past hurts are still brought up to hurt one another
Relationship in which your needs and wants are ignored


STEP TWO
Once you have identified the persons you have a toxic relationship with, then you need to take each one individually and work through the following steps.

STEP THREE
Identify the irrational beliefs in the toxic relationship which prevent you from becoming detached. Address these beliefs and replace them with healthy, more rational ones.

STEP FOUR
Identify all of the reasons why you are being hurt and your physical, emotional and spiritual health is being threatened by the relationship.

STEP FIVE
Accept and admit to yourself that the other person is "sick," "dysfunctional" or "irrational," and that no matter what you say, do or demand, you will not be able to control or change this reality. Accept that there is only one thing you can change in life and that is you. All others are the unchangeable's in life. Change your expectations that things will be better than what they really are. Hand these people over to your Higher Power and let go of the need to change them.

STEP SIX
Work out reasons why there is no need to feel guilt over letting go and being emotionally detached from this relationship and free yourself from guilt as you let go of the emotional "hooks" in the relationship.

STEP SEVEN
Affirm yourself as being a person who "deserves" healthy, wholesome, health-engendering relationships in your life. You are a good person and deserve healthy relationships at home, at work, and in the community.

STEP EIGHT
Gain support for yourself as you begin to let go of your emotional enmeshment with these relationships.

STEP NINE
Continue to call upon your Higher Power for the strength to continue to let go and detach.

STEP TEN
Continue to give no person, place or thing the power to affect or impact your feelings about yourself.

STEP ELEVEN
Continue to detach and let go and work at self-recovery and self-healing.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 05/10/13 04:04 PM
well...happy Friday everyone!
Its coming up on another anniversary mark (mothers day Sunday), one that I was expected to, and did do a lot for the family on.
And I was wanting to throw this out there for comment....
I have been basically pretty dark over the past few months....and haven't gotten any type of contact or even a smidgeon of any indications that my ex might be open to a little hello or any type of contact from me, nor has she indicated that she may be softening her stand on allowing the kids to contact me for a conversation or a visit.
Anyway...I want to drop off a little something for her and the kids and just let it be something that might be welcomed on that day.
Should I do it....or would it be seen as pursuit?
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 05/10/13 04:10 PM
I should have added to the above.....I in NO way would "expect" anything to come of the gesture....however, I have to be honest when I say I would have a little "hope" that it would at least spark a smile or nice thought.

I think that its always nice to give a gift that says something about the "receiver".....and not about the "giver"
Keep it simple, but thoughtful..... smile
Posted By: jaytee35 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 05/10/13 05:46 PM
JJAC,

I understand your concern on this one. I think from the advice that I have been given is you want to do a 180. Whatever you normally would do and she expects you to do, do the opposite. I am still new to all of this but I had a situation where I still had a wedding gift to give my waw. She would have expected me to sell them and collect the profit since we are not together. I did the opposite and gave them to her with NO EXPECTATIONS!!! I heard nothing from her. So if you do, Do not even expect a thank you...and be prepared. This is my two cents but the vets can probably give you better information. Good luck!
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 05/11/13 12:57 AM
Thanks J..
I'm ok with taking the chance on the gift and gesture... and I really dont have any expectations.
The way I see it is that I have not gotten any contact from her since Christmas....So I dont really have anything to loose here (50/50 chance of something positive or negitive) and eve if its taken poorly, it should be only a minor set back.
There are really only a few things that really could happen here anyway.
She could take it and throw it in the trash...or
She could accept it and say something nice afterwards....or keep it and say nothing more about it.
But NO matter what her external reaction is, I am certain that she will eventually smile on the inside at what I did for her....and how this gift fits perfectly with everything that is going on right now in her world.
Posted By: jaytee35 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 05/11/13 02:02 AM
Jjac,

I hear you completely and you are right. We are in very similar situation with our wives. My wife is very closed and has only initiated contact with me like twice since January. Valentines day I did what you are doing as well. I decided to give my wife a card, and deliver flowers and dinner to work. All I got in response was..."I got your delivery, thank you" which was nice but in hindsight I wish I would have know that she filed for divorce the day before!!!!!

But I do agree with you, at this point we do not have much to lose. Let's just make sure we are detaching with love and giving them thier space. I am currently very dark with her and the divorce proceedings. If our wives are meant to be with us, they will come back some day!

I am told constantly to be patient on this site.....and lord know I am being patient. You do the same cause thier is no timeline to reconciliation. I wish you all the luck in the world and I hope to hear a positive ending from you
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 05/13/13 10:01 PM
Well...
As the saying goes....its not about the giver of gifts that creates the best impressions, its the thoughtfulness of the gift that really counts.
After much deliberation, I went ahead with my plans for a Mothers Day and belated Birthday gift for my ex wife...all of which had some tiny thought to it that that reflected/connected directly to some of the very good parts of our past relationship together.
I had NO expectations.....and my effort hit its intended mark of her heart.
I am pleased to say that she did reply....it was short and sweet...but she did reply!
I'm not going to make anything more out of this other than it was a positive reaction. I'm just left here wondering what might my next little move might be?

"Love is always bestowed as a gift - freely, willingly and without expectation. We don't love to be loved; we love to love."
Leo Buscaglia
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 05/13/13 10:42 PM
Originally Posted By: JJAC2005
Well...
As the saying goes....its not about the giver of gifts that creates the best impressions, its the thoughtfulness of the gift that really counts.

In other words it wasnt just the fact that I gave her something for mothers day...it was something that came from my heart that meant something for me to give and for her to recieve....

"Love is always bestowed as a gift - freely, willingly and without expectation. We don't love to be loved; we love to love."
Leo Buscaglia
Posted By: jaytee35 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 05/14/13 12:58 AM
Jjac, I am proud to hear you went with your heart and recieved a kind response, keep on loving unconditionally. If things do not work out with your wife, at least you will be a better man!
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 05/20/13 06:04 AM
So does anyone have any comments about what to do or not to do for staying dark a.k.a. Gray or any other shade of the same When it is obvious that the ex is involved in a relationship
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 05/20/13 12:01 PM
My dilemma seems to almost always play out the same way….each and every time I begin to think about it.
Its almost like a bad version of “Groundhogs Day” where I cant get the ending to come out the way it was intended.
I start thinking in terms of explaining everything that happened, good bad and otherwise, and the events that tripped each of our reactions and behaviors.
Of course the explanation is clear to me, my family, my friends, and anyone that gets even a little taste of my relationship dynamic….and even though it is clear that I may have done a few stupid things, reacted on various times with a bit too much emotion or passion, it is clear that I was (and am still ) truly in love with my wife.
I am often getting the same type of reaction from other married and divorced people that my crimes were not all that bad, and that there are many of those among us that have done so much worse, and survived so more, to make it back to a very happy and loving marriage.
I am starting to think I am stuck…really stuck on letting things go….thinking that if I let them go completely, they will be lost of any future possibilities for a second chance.
I get back on the horse, trying to detach, yet only seem to be able to get so far into that role, before allowing some memory to tug me back into that place of missing my family and getting so freaking angry that things played out the way that they did.
Plus when I add in the fact that my ex has moved on into another relationship, it just puts me into a place of…why waste my time?

Of course I have some really good days, but man have I been hit with a flood of negativity on my goal of reconciliation….does anyone have any advice?
Posted By: whitneypinch Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 05/20/13 12:04 PM
No advice here.... but am in EXACTLY the same situation as you with EXACTLY the same feelings.

Look forward to seeing what others write...
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 05/21/13 12:10 PM
A toss up question....
With the successful reply from a well planned out Mothers Day and Birth Day gesture a little over a week ago from my ex.
Would it be considered pushing or pursuing if I did another gesture this close to that one.
I am experiencing a huge bounty of blooms from all of the Lilacs I have around the property and I was always known for filling the house up with their beauty and fragrance this time of year since the time we first met.
I have the biggest urge to place a bunch of these fresh cut flowers on her front porch today, so that she might enjoy them as she once did...
I want to in my heart....However this would trigger another memory, hopefully a good one. But my biggest hope is I feel that she should be thinking of me and missing me on her own.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 05/21/13 04:10 PM
Ok, I just read/reread Sandi's list of dos and don'ts....
So, I only can realistically do this in my heart....this bunch will have to go to the girls at work....:)
Damn it's tough learning to have to live and love detached
Posted By: makingmagic Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 05/21/13 04:29 PM
JJAC... don't do it. Sorry, its not what you want to hear.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 05/21/13 04:56 PM
Thanks, I kind a got that on my own.... wink
But it's awful nice to have somebody Chime in....
The support here has been awesome... I really appreciate it....
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 05/21/13 05:04 PM
LOL.....I must be making progress
Sandi's list of 37 is making more and more sense
Posted By: makingmagic Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 05/21/13 05:15 PM
Its great when we finally "get it" and what we are supposed to be doing.... although, its still extremely hard to do and not at all what we want to be doing.

Wishing you a happy day.

wfm
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 05/30/13 02:12 AM
interesting day....
I was doing a bit of an errand this afternoon and received a little text from my S 12 (step)
I am in absolute awe....He is amazing me with all sorts of insight for his age.
I know its the little things that make us smile, but this was a big little thing!
Anyway...he wanted to know if we could chat and keep it between us....I was a bit apprehensive but seeing as how he has basically been shut out of my life for the past 8 months, I decided to risk it for a little bit.
He basically said all of his ” I miss and love you's” in the first few lines, still referring to me as dad, which I am so proud of, and actually very honored about.
Anyway, when it comes from the mouths of babes, I think you can pretty much bank on the authenticity of the information
Well…of course mom is still seeing that other guy, but she really loved that gift you sent her for mother’s day, and she actually is wearing the baseball jersey…he told me
He also let me know that there were several occasions when she was in deep thought about me and even got a bit depressed that I wasn’t around…could it be that the fog is about to lift?

I am taking it for what it is….for the most part…..its a connection…or at least the start of a connection.
I will have to move slow…stay detached….and continue to DB
But on the other had…I am freaking happy as hell!!!!!! smile
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 05/31/13 10:19 PM
HELP….
OK…sort of got really nervous just a little bit ago….and I felt the need to reach out for some helpful, encouraging, and calming advice…..PLEASE!
I just received a text from my ex-wife, whom has basically been a WAS since the end of Sept.2012
I guess, I can say though I am not completely surprised as I knew once she found out that the boy and I had been communicating and he invited me to come to his game the other night (which I showed up at)
She basically wanted to know how I knew about the game…..and to let me know that the communication between the boy and I had made her a bit angry and she didn’t appreciate it at all.
How did I know about the game…the boy texted me and invited me.
We have been chatting/texting for the past few days….he has really missed me.
I told him that the last time I let his mother know he called me, she basically cut off any and all communication between the kids and myself.
So, this time I would be a bit more cautious and let it go a little longer before we let on that we were chatting….as he wanted to ask if he could come to my place sometime for the weekend.

Sometime ago (Jan) I had wanted to chat…she wasn’t read…then she offered and I had to cancel
I sent her a letter…she didn’t take it well
I admittedly have disappointed her in many ways thru our marriage…but in the past 8 months I have grown tremendously
I need some serious advice here people…..my anxiety is starting to get the better of me…lol
I don’t know if I should play this very low key or spill my guts!

She is now wanting to meet in person at my earliest convenience…..and I am booked solid, I could make room at anytime to see her….and I think she knows that I will
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 05/31/13 11:50 PM
OKAY....
I'm one of those people that tends to get a little over analytical at times...lol
But in this case, I am really having a hard time with the sudden onset for the requested face to face meeting....
If it were to be purely about boundaries and my seeing the kids (the boy is pushing for a weekend with me)...which has been on my general request since last October....anyway if it were purely about boundaries, my feelings are that she could just send me an email or a text, and let me know that the kids will be off limits until adult hood and if I don’t stay the you know what away from the kids she will see that I pay with my you know what.
I’m trying to stay open minded and calm….
Posted By: whitneypinch Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/01/13 01:03 AM
Why not just send an email asking what she would like to discuss when you guys meet?
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/01/13 01:24 AM
I could do that....but she seemed to place this all on me and about me
That is what concernes me....
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/01/13 02:04 AM
Ok....now all she said to that request (I asked her what she wanted to discuss) is that she is now granting me the request to have a face to face so that I can fill her in on all that I've learned in counseling....???
I went to her way back in early January asking to see her, and was all fired up to show her all the stuff I had stumbled on, on my quest to find the solutions as to why our marriage and relationship had fallen to pieces and how I was blown away at just how classic everything in our relationship had been...especially at the ending….the path to enlightenment isn’t easy…LOL
At that time she didn’t care, didn’t want to hear it, nor did she even want to see any of the materials….of course this was just before I really started to even do any DBing….I was just in awe of the information that would have been so useful to me 3-6months prior
Posted By: whitneypinch Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/01/13 09:35 AM
The experts should weigh in on how to handle the meeting BUT I would love the opportunity to talk to my XW about all I have learned too.

It is amazing how classic most of our relationship problems were. I looked deep into mine and all the stereotype issues were there. With all the stereotype issues come stereotype solutions.
Its just that most of us don't get the chance to work through the issues once our spouses leave.

Looking forward to hearing what the experts on here say about how you should handle the talk with your X.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/01/13 11:59 AM
Well surprise surprise....she is still willing to go on a 3 to 4 hour afternoon ride and listen to anything and everything that I have to say...mmmmm
To this I can only say that I am impressed that she wants to spend that much time with me after all this time has passed
However I am very very cautious and very very skeptical that she only wants to do this For any purpose other than to say that she did it and to get it out-of-the-way
She has not stated any other interest or reason for wanting to do this, or get away or to even have a conversation with me.
I know it is a good place to start but...... It's really not time yet to have a conversation about relationship repair or is it?
Posted By: whitneypinch Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/01/13 12:10 PM
Well, in my experience you can never know what their motivation truly is.

Try to go with low expectations.... ahhhh I tell you this like everyone always says..... but we end up having expectations that something good will come.... usually it leads to disappointment.

BUT go and be confident, listen to her, validate, and if she wants to hear how you are feeling then tell her. Be appreciative that she is willing to talk about things.
HAVE FUN. Leave her with a good experience of it, not just a heavy conversation. Remember they want positive experiences with a confident person.

That is my (not expert) opinion.

Wish my XW would do that. In 5 years she has been very nice to me but has shown NO interest whatsoever in us.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/01/13 12:13 PM
If anybody is watching this thread or paying any attention to this all...
The only thing that I am really in need of is running a little advice on how to say something to somebody that I want them back in my life but I don't think that that's what they want to hear right now....
But then again if they really didn't want to hear what it is I had to say, why would they even want to spend any time with me?
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/01/13 12:33 PM
Thanks for chiming in....I will try to leave it as a positive and skip over the heavy
Just having the opportunity is a good thing
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/01/13 12:44 PM
I completely understand from the DB book why we aren't supposed to let out too much information but how do you proceed if somebody really wants to know
....do you what?
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/01/13 01:33 PM
Okay well I think what I have in mind is to keep everything light and not too in-depth
Posted By: whitneypinch Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/01/13 04:47 PM
If possible make it an enjoyable time. Don't go too overboard, just some fun.
Talk if and when she brings it up.
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/01/13 05:34 PM
WP has been giving you really good advice.

Dump any expectations. In fact, this request for f2f would be a red flag for me (based on my experience / my sitch).

If you are concerned she is going to get mad at you for not being able to schedule f2f around her, then I would say not enough has changed.

Is she asking you to go for coffee or is she telling you she wants to have a f2f with you? The difference might be considered (former) friendly get together / (latter) business meeting (possibly so she can tell you to your face that you are to NOT comm with step kids; even if they initiate).

Anyhow, all I would say is, do not get all excited about this f2f and think that if you cannot squeeze your schedule to fit her in, that you will destroy an opportunity to reconnect.

If she really wants to reconnect and begin a friendly R with you, then all you need to let her know is that you are extremely busy, the best time to get together would be (make one or two specific times / dates as options), and look forward to chatting.
Posted By: KEE Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/01/13 08:09 PM
I have been following your posts because I have been and am in the same situation as you. I never wanted my marriage to end but it did then after all my changes ( getting my MA) ex h wanted to re- marry.) We never remarried but stayed together 4 more years and moved out of our hometown to a new state together.
During this transition, ex h was exfremely unhappy again and started distancing himself again with his commitment with me. I always felt that it had nothing to do with us, but with the internal childhood issues inside that caused MLC and his running behavior.
My Mom passed unexpectedly, and h ran for the fouth time.I know he was grieving as I was but he was not present at her funeral or there for me. Instead he was plotting his next run and had already found a place to live when I returned.
I returned back to my home state after this latest run 2 years ago. He has stayed in contact professing his love for me and sorrow for not being there.He has stated that he wished he would of been a better man to me but never faced the demons inside.
He recently told me he is in a new relationship and I have went dark. I know that this relationship might be new and exciting right now but past history even before me tells me that he will run again.
He knows that I love him and I think he loves me as much as he is capable of , loving.
I still stand to reconcile someday but I need to GAL like crazy and figure out my new life. I had a career that I worked really hard for and I left it so I have been unemployed for over a year.
I still pray that ex h figures out someday that he needs to do the painful work within in order to be whole again but I dont think he will while in a new relationship. As much as I love him and miss him, I do not want him back until he does. I have accepted that this may never happen so I need to figure out how to go on and be happy without him I have offered my forgiveness but from previous conversations with him, I think that he knows how much damage he has done and his guilt overides everything so its easier to start over then have to do the painful work with me.
Kee
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/02/13 03:48 PM
First off I want to thank you all for your advice….I take in a lot from other posts as well, but I was absolutely reaching out for something specifically related to my sitch.
The F2F meeting was requested as a way to give me the chance at closure that I had requested back in January some 4 months after the door was closed on my relationship by my wife making the sitch a classic combination WAS/MLC
Initially I was shocked at her request, and was very nervous as to what might be coming as this was all happening right after the boy asked me to come watch his baseball game. I had been blocked from the kids for some time, and the last time that the boy had reached out to me she was very upset….
I accepted her offer for the meeting….waited to see what the guidelines would be, as last time she only wanted to do a coffee thing, and be in a public place so she could leave at her leisure or not feel trapped.
When she deferred, and the choice was up to me I made her an offer of a drive up to the lake and back (this is where we first started our relationship) and to my surprise she accepted….that meant it was going to be at the very least a 3 ½ hour conversation…and she was ok with it…..and when I asked her what it was she really wanted to talk about, she basically stated that she wanted to give me the chance that I had requested before, and to hear about all the info that I wanted to share back at that time.

I admit that my practices (haven’t been the greatest) of going dark were basically limited to a once a month attempt at some email for contact….as well as struggles with patience, and learning to detach as well as I should have been doing. But, like I heard, its wasn’t that I was actually hurting my chances, but I wasn’t helping them and most certainly was prolonging the process.
But as it turned out….all of the walls that she was erecting to keep me out, regain her self esteem, and move on with her new life, were in some way damaged by each and every attempt at my contact…and it angered her more and more that I still could do this to her.
I was blamed for any and all of her self esteem issues, I was at fault for her loosing trust in our relationship, she felt under appreciated , undesired/unattractive
ALL of this was based on my actions not my words…

I showed up with a handful/bouquet of asparagus (instead of flowers), and there was an immediate grin on her face. From that moment on I knew it wasn’t going to be an all day bitch session…The day turned out to be filled with all sorts of surprises, as I listened to her assessments, her gripes and her points of views from the day we said “I Do” to the last day we said good bye.
She covered it all, and I took it…trying not to defend myself too much with explanations, or turn it around on her, like I would have done in the past….The bottom line was I was wrong for anything and everything I did that made her not feel as though she and the kids were the most important thing in my life.
I will say that the day wasn’t all filled with heavy rehashing of the past…it gave me an opportunity to explain and show that I was indeed very sorry, and very changed from all that I had been learning since we had divorced. We had lunch together as if we always did, we laughed, we cut a few jokes and the few hours of that day turned out to be 10 hours together.
I was glad I didn’t have any expectations…as I ended up collecting to very nice long embraces, and a peck on the cheek as we parted at the end of the night.

I’m so impressed with DB’ing….even when I’m not the best at it…the little that I had been doing seems to be yielding a softening in the heart of my ex….one can always have hope!
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/02/13 04:19 PM
Glad to hear it worked out well, for you. Even if DBing hasn't saved your M right now, your efforts have certainly allowed you to become the person you are and opens the door to a great future.

Maybe one day I will be comfortable being in the same room as my stbx and even sit at a banquet table with her at some future, family event, laughing and chatting like old, great friends.

Right now, I don't have any desire to do so. But... who knows what the future will bring.

Did you get the "closure" you wanted? Or did you instead get a sense of hope?
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/02/13 04:42 PM
More like a sense of hope.....very evident that it wouldn't take much to rekindle the fire
However there is a lot of repair work to do to regain the trust that I have lost
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/02/13 05:06 PM
So, how do you want to move forward?

Goals? Plans of action? ie. DB / solutions oriented plan to achieve smaller, short term goals.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/02/13 05:25 PM
As to the All of the things that I would like to see happen I need to finish putting into place all of the 180s that were so important as well as committing to the practices that are solid enough to want a second chance For reconciliation
Right noemi good with the time frame....and confident that she is still watching to see if be changes are perminate
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/02/13 08:27 PM
To really answer this I was thinking of what I wanted in the beginning of my quest and how I got to where I am right now.
This journey might never have have even taken place if it wouldn't have been for me going thru a divorce that I so desperately didn't want.
Now that I have found so many new skills, and made a lot of acknowledgements as well as adjustments on how things should have and could have been.
That pain of the death of our previous relationship needed to be buried in order for any good to come to the 2 of us....and I'm beginning to see the benefits of all the hard work...at least for me.
I do know that I still miss my wife and family every day...and I now know that they miss me as well....as well as my wife knowing everything in my heart for her and the kids.
But there is still a lot of repairs to be done...trust to be won.
So, my first and foremost goal is to regain a solid trusting friendship....and take it slow....very slow!
I could tell that with in the right circumstances our little that were still glowing, could really ignite into a very large fire...and I want to be able to control that burn (to some degree).
secondly, I would say that I would like to stay on my continued path of learning to help me commit the things I am learning to a solid habit...they have to replace any and all of my past behaviors.
3rd I need to stay on task for all of the projects and goals that I have in the works with my all of my GAL goals and things ....I have been so easily distracted from things in the past when I move to quickly with my wife.

I am remembering something I saw on someones posts....you can be right or you can be happy!
I want the Happy back!
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/03/13 05:32 AM
Looks like you've got your head on straight. Just keep your expectations at zero. If all that comes out of it is a decent friendship, so be it. It could be that does not happen or, it could be something more.

I think at this point in time, at best try to treat it like any courtship. Yes, the two of you have a history, but you can take this from a frame of getting to know her and determining if she's someone you might want to "date". Does she have characteristics that you like. That you could live with. That you wouldn't want to try to change. If you can't accept her as she is, then maybe you don't want anything more than just a friendship.

This would be the time and place to work towards that.

Keep working on yourself. cool
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/04/13 01:16 AM
Well, looks like things are really starting to thaw out...
The ex has agreed to allow the boy to visit me over the upcoming weekend...plus he has ball tournaments.

I had to share this
When she had originally agreed to take a drive and be alone in the car with me for a min of 3-4 hours…I was shocked….but I was also very scared and very nervous!
I arrived as I always do…somewhat fashionably late….she is sitting on the front porch finishing a beer…she goes inside to put things away and shut the door, and just as she comes back from shutting the door I am at the foot of the steps holding out a fresh cut bunch of asparagus.
I say “some men might bring you flowers” but then you know me…I’m just a little different...
And that grin couldn’t hide...
The rest of that day seemed to follow a very easy pattern of comfortable familiarity…setting both of us at ease.
I thought it was a nice way to ask to at least think about becoming a bit more friendly…and leaving it open to exploring a friendship.

After she sent me short little text granting the boy permission to visit...she sent me another note, letting me know that she really enjoyed the overcooked, smothered in butter, fresh asparagus! (her absolute fave)
Sometimes it’s not the gift itself...it’s the connection that the gift can make!
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/04/13 11:01 PM
Any other thoughts ?
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/05/13 12:11 AM
nope...




but, since I'm here... grin

Be happy for her that she enjoyed the asparagus. Just don't take it personally.

I enjoy eating my chocolate and then I get fat (well, that's impossible for me, for now; but lets say I DO) and I think, maybe I should exercise. But maybe... I should stop eating so many chocolates.



On a serious note, enjoy the positives. Really, don't read anything into them.

Think long and hard about what you are doing right now, regarding how you are conducting yourself, your GAL, your 180s...

and keep doing them.

They appear to be working... but make them stick. Don't start getting over board thinking things are getting much better so you can do more. Keep doing what you are doing for another week or two and see if the results remain the same.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/05/13 10:25 PM
Hear this....my new smooth move! -NOT-

I think its called one step fwd and 2 steps back.....on another note itt might be the "dumb ass shuffle" LOL

I had been talking to my ex since Friday last week....we spent the entire day Saturday together for a long talk which wen very well (see above)...in fact I truly believe we had a very good talk….I even got a few really great hugs, and even a parting kiss on the cheek when I was leaving at the end of the night......and was given the go ahead that she would reassess us having a new friendship together.

She was nice all weekend, and even is letting me take S.S. over this up coming weekend to stay out at the farm….and take him to his baseball games.
I was even invited to go to today’s 7th grade honors assembly and afterwards we went to lunch together. She accepts, YEAH!

We flirted and bantered some, and I even let a few pet names (ie honey) slip out now and then (she even laughed last Saturday at lunch when I still refered to her as my wife to some otehr couple at the bar)….as it’s still so easy to do…and then she noticed me staring a little too long….smiling a little too big….it sort of made her uncomfortable, and she reminded me that this is just friend stuff right?

I told her that I agreed on the starting at a ground zero friends thing, however I cannot stop looking (thinking of her) at her in a very romantic way….and then after all that, I had to open my mouth and tell her how I really felt when I dropped her off after lunch.
Now I’m afraid that I may have said things to push her further away….
I don’t know why I did that…it just came out….as ”I still love you, always have always will”
And all I need is a chance to show you ….yadda yadda yadda…..
WHY DID GOD MAKE MEN SO DUMB!


ok all you VET's....let me have it!
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/05/13 11:37 PM
see... what you WERE doing WAS working...

what you DID do... probably not so much.

I think you can probably anticipate a pull back from her. How big, you will find out. But for now, just drop it completely.

You know when you make that really stupid comment about how hot that chick is at the end of the bar to your buddy... just as the music drops as the dj switches the album... yah... that's what you did.

Simle, wave, back away from the nice lady and then pick yourself up with confidence and move forward the way you were.

Given enough time, she'll probably reach out again to be a little more available. Hopefully she won't do something equally dumb and change her mind on SS visit and contact.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/05/13 11:40 PM
A friend of mine just sent me an email.....sort of exactly what I was thinking....
[You are so adorable Jim. For one thing I don't think you should worry so much. And you ARE NOT DUMB! You can't help that you still have strong feelings. If I were you I would not talk to her for a little bit (unless she approaches you first) but DON'T INITIATE ANY COMMUNICATION...and then when you get an opportunity let her know that you would rather be friends than nothing and try to keep it on the down low about your "real" feelings...no matter how hard it is. That is my feeling on all of this.]

The good news is that the boy is still coming for the weekend! smile
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/06/13 12:20 AM
KD....I watch and read your posted remarks regularly.
The humor hits me right between the eyes...as I know many a men have done exactly the same thing.
I know my ex....I know her smile...her looks…her laugh....her flirts....and much more than she wants to admit.
I am trying hard not to over analyze all of the interactions we have just had the past 4 days here, but hey, its obvious there are still some very strong feelings for each other here. (and I was just being honest)
But I understand that she isn’t ready to put any more trust into anything at this moment, other than starting a small and slow friendship….I am the one that needs a little more self control here.
I am confident that its still going well…ok, fairly confident…LOL
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/06/13 12:23 AM
Hold the vision....Trust the process

Get back up and prove you are all you say you are, and live for that which is right.

It wasnt just a coinsidence that I parked where I parked and walked into her walking along the sidewalk....it was something much bigger than that!
I have to believe!
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/06/13 12:51 AM
Originally Posted By: JJAC2005
Hold the vision....Trust the process

Get back up and prove you are all you say you are, and live for that which is right.


That... deserves an "'at'a'boy!"

Calm, cool, confident, suave... well, not so suave maybe... lol

cool
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/06/13 03:19 PM
Thanks.....I needed that little "at a boy" smile wink
&
I just wanted to say that it's a lot harder to stay so focused w/o showing emotion than anyone realizes, just as a dog would get excited to see its owner, humans can get carried away.
I sent a short note this morning to apologize for over stepping any boundary and closed it with an appreciation for the opportunity to have started a friendship connection with an emphasis on the value she has as a person.
Now I will back slowly away from the table and go back to work.....DB style!
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/09/13 12:44 PM
A hopeful note....
I was granted the best 2days I've had in 8mo
The ex let SS spend the majority of the weekend w me.
We talked a lot about the past school year, his ups and downs and he was open about his feelings on missing me being there at the house like I use to be.
I got a lot more information than I had thought would ever come out from him som of it was him just expressing his feelings some of it was me asking for him to explain his thoughts a little further.
The bottom line was he told me that he's not the only one that is hopeful
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/12/13 01:22 PM
A little updated note to pass along to anyone that starts to notice any changes in their spouse while detaching or going dark or implementing any of the number of techniques designed to help a situation.
For your own sanity….don’t over think or over react…and NEVER let it be known that you are overly happy or excited.

I was given a great gift over the past couple of weeks…..I was granted time with my ex and my step kids, primarily the SS, whom has made me smile to no end.
Just knowing that I have touched his heart as much as he has touched mine has meant the world to me…..and I can see that it touches his mothers as well.
Which is the point that I am trying to convey here….I know that she still has some very strong feelings, but I have been like a dog waiting and overly excited to get her attention and affection….smiling too big and staring too long at times….sending her a message to stay guarded and don’t take down the walls just yet.

Last night at the ball game I arrived early, and just as I was getting out of my truck the ex pulled up next to me…getting out of her car with a smile and starting some polite conversation almost immediately. Then she handed me one of the cookies that she had baked for the team after game party….and since she knew how completely distracted I was she then reminded me my windows were still down and it was about to rain.
The point is, I, or anyone in this situation, cant really read too much into these types of run-ins….even though the entire ball park was open for parking, that she didn’t have to give me anything, that she didn’t have to sit next to me at the game…any of this is more or less her just being nice….and it’s a hell of a lot better place to be than the opposite…so don’t over react, and let her continue to set the pace of the interactions and new friendship.
The advantages of keeping yourself on a lower key will help to create mystery, and she will continue to want to explore that more and more over time….its so important on so many levels to remain positive, sticking to the commitments you have made over the past months on all the hard work of 180’s, GAL, and healing…continuing to look better, be better, an ultimately becoming the kind of man only a foll wuld walk away from!
I am still hopeful….and it feels so good to have that hope...and will continue to be patient (LOL) or trying harder to be more patient than my excitement wants me too be.

Once again I am remided to “Hold the Vision….Trust the Process”


Side note….I came here to save my M…to regain my relationship with my exW.
I have found so much more and continue to grow in that knowledge.
I have also found out that there are a lot more people out there that have become divorced as I have and have eventually reunited with their ex….and I’m not just talking on the site, as just yesterday I had a talk with a fellow coworker who I was just sharing my excitement with from the past week/weekend, and he didn’t even know I was divorced….but relayed a story that he had 2 close friends that did the exact same thing by reuniting with their ex spouse a few years after the had divorced….underlining the changes and growth we all need to go thru to become a better husband/wife/partner/friend.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/17/13 11:53 AM
There are baby steps along the way...
I spent Father's Day on the golf course with my ex wife yesterday.
Lots of fun, lots of laughs, and even a few flirts here and ther.
Taking things as they come....and letting her dictate the pace.
Now is not the time to rush into a discussion about my feelings, about my changes, and definitely not the time to bring up my desires for reconciliation.
The only bad thing is that I'm baby stepping when I want to run....but then again, baby stepping is always better than standing still 😄
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/17/13 09:27 PM
OK….I’m looking for a little more insight into the past few weeks.
I’m thinking that I’m on a good start…and I really don’t want to over think it or jinx anything by not reading the situation as it should be….
During my time spent yesterday with my exW, she was happy go lucky, seemed relaxed, was funny and even flirtatious at times….I wasn’t sure how to react to some of her sexual innuendos or overtly open comments about some of our past experiences with each other….we both managed to poke and play with the other at time…breaking personal space often….and
We did manage to drink quite a bit together and I liked that she was or seemed very at ease (almost as normal as when we were together). On a few of the par 3’s we placed some silly wagers taunting and teasing with each other as we often did….and I even made a long birdie put toward the end of the day and teased her that she owed me big time for that one….and she laughingly said something naughty, but shrugged it off….any way on the very next tee I came up really close and asked her how she felt about “beer kisses” (knowing full well she always loved them)….anyway she pulled back a little and said no, she couldn’t do that one, and that it would be inappropriate…..and when I asked her why it was inappropriate, she explained it like it would be inappropriate of her, but not that it wasn’t inappropriate of me to have asked.
At the end of the evening which was close to dark….(again, spending the entire day together unexpectedly)….I gave her several small hugs and a few peck on the cheek….she didn’t refuse, but she wouldn’t kiss me back…until I made a few jokes and teased her enough to give me just one….and she did.
I’m probably searching and diggin a little too deep on this whole out of town relationship she has…but it seems to me that in the past few weeks she has really changed her whole stance on doing things together as friends….and I’m for certain that he BF would not be entirely comfortable with the fact that we have been hanging out.

So…I’m open to any input on this…..LOL
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/17/13 11:54 PM
Ah-ha…an Updated text just came thru....
Seems my exW is a bit pissed/disappointed at herself for going out and having fun with me...since she is in a relationship, she felt like she was being untrue to it.
She wanted to let me know that she will never reopen anything to do with a relationship with me…. And that we can only ever be friends….OUCH
And that since she really only wanted to be friends with me, its unfair to herself and to me to place herself in any type of awkward situation….
I almost feel bad for her – NOT!….but she was displaying some very true to that moment, and the past, during our afternoon together.
Keeping the road home open and smooth…
Posted By: whitneypinch Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/17/13 11:59 PM
Ohhhh, I feel for you !!!

My XW kind of did that with me as well a year and a half after BD.

Well, what can ya do but continue to move forward.

You had a great time and left her with good feelings.
What more can you ask for.
Most of us never even get that far.

My XW is in a serious relationship right now. One of my kids is flat out rejecting the guy and causing trouble for my XW.
I have been kind to her and told her I just want her to be happy. She was shocked that I was so good about it.
Again, what can ya do...
Just be a kind, loving person... to everyone.

We never know where any of this leads us.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/18/13 12:55 AM
well.....I'm doing pretty good overall
I feel that this has always had an air of MLC to it...and she is in a very long distance relationship that places them together only a few times a month....its all ok....we are divorced, she is an adult, and she can make her own choices.
On one hand I am a bit confused that she isn’t recognizing any of her own true feelings, but I can understand that she has yet to see all of the changes I have been making, and develop more trust again within those changes.
I will continue to continue to rebuild myself in all the positives I can, plus many more…because in the very beginning when we met…she liked and fell in love with the whole package!
I am happy that we shared the past few weeks...we cleared the air, we shared a lot of insight...and I am pretty sure she got it when I told her what I have been learning.
Yes, admittedly there is a bit of a sting to the reality that things are not exactly moving fwd on a different note….I do still miss her and the family all the time....but I can still remain hopeful.
And now that I had the opportunity to reconnect with my SS, I know he will always be a part of my life…There were a lot of connective and reminiscent smiles from everyone the past few weeks
And best of all, I know that the ex-still likes to flirt with all of it…she enjoys many of those good times…she may one day want to add to them who knows, but I do know that she can still have fun, and really enjoys herself when we are together.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/18/13 01:14 AM
Can I ask you if you are still holding onto hope?
Posted By: whitneypinch Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/19/13 08:55 AM
Ahhhhh, that question.....

Yes, I am holding onto hope. I think I will always have hope.

My XW is in a serious relationship now, one in which my 10 year old daughter does not like the guy and is causing real problems for my XW.

I just continue on, to work on myself, and to be as kind as I can with everyone, including my XW.
The truth is my D has changed me for the good.
I am trying to get to the point of truly just loving my XW as my children's mom and hoping she is happy no matter what. I am about 60% there.

My 8 year old son was upset 2 months ago when he found out about his mom's new boyfriend. He asked me, with tears streaming down his face; "daddy, why are we not enough for mommy to even try?".....
I just held him, told him I loved him, and said; "I don't have the answer to that and it would be better if he asked his mom".

My XW is extremely nice and caring towards me. So, I am happy about that but at the same time interactions with her leave me hurting. She and I get along so well, but I guess that is not enough for her.

Tomorrow is another day...
Posted By: LBH_LC Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/19/13 04:52 PM
Originally Posted By: whitneypinch

My 8 year old son was upset 2 months ago when he found out about his mom's new boyfriend. He asked me, with tears streaming down his face; "daddy, why are we not enough for mommy to even try?".....
I just held him, told him I loved him, and said; "I don't have the answer to that and it would be better if he asked his mom".


Uh, not a father, so forgive me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't you have said it has nothing to do with him?
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/20/13 04:33 PM
WP- I can see that we have a few things in common here. However, I am curious as to your situation and any DB techniques you have tried...with or without results.
I see that you have been D for some time now...definitely not sure about why you are not seeing any more progress when you are friendly with your ex. Do you express your feelings and desires to her at all?
I know that its not part of the process (entirely) but I had a huge discussion about that 2 weeks ago and it seemed to hit home to her.
I am enjoying the friendship stage for now, but its tough as hell when I am so freaking attracted to my ex, and it appears that she is still just as attracted to me...but since she is in a relationship she has asked for me to have more respect for her boundaries....but we still flirt like hell.
Do you and your ex exhibit any of the old flame?
Posted By: whitneypinch Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/20/13 04:52 PM
Yes, there are many similarities to our situations.

When I leave my ex alone for a fews days she is always friendlier to me, but when I am friendlier to her she pulls back. I understand this is typical.

I too am still very attracted to my XW. I see her ever few days because of our 2 children. It hard as we always get along.

My divorce has provided deep changes in me. I am much more appreciative, kind and loving. This has benefited my 2 kids and myself greatly !
My kids and I do everything together and go on great adventures all the time.

For me nothing seems to have worked other than my X and I get along really well.
Now that she is in a serious relationship she has put her wall back up with me.
My X has no interest in talking to me about anything between us.
The downside is that I don't believe my X has done the deep work to figure out herself and her contribution to the end of our marriage, like I have.

She is really having trouble with the kids accepting her new relationship.
In fact the kids have really started pushing back. They keep asking why did she not pick someone like daddy, who is down to earth, kind and caring.
Needless to say I don't think my XW is too happy to have the kids pushing on her with that. But she has glossed over the whole thing and has to now face the realities of all of this.

The other issue is that my X is extremely attractive and from a VERY affluent family. So, she continually has attention around her.
I dont believe she will ever do the deep work required of her.

For me all I can do is just be a decent person to her and stay focussed on my kids.
If she is not interested, what can I do?
It is a real shame as we get along great and we have 2 wonderful kids.
I dont' understand why we don't talk about it.... but then again, I m not her.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/21/13 01:14 AM
I actually have been thinking about this all day for many reasons…
I continued to improve…I worked on my 180’s and my GAL programs
I am a better version of what I was when I was married…and she (my wife) noticed it after our talk.
But in NO way is she letting on that she is at all interested in looking at us again…in fact she is stating the complete opposite…that she will never give me any more second chances.
So, I have to take the friendship offer for now….let my actions speak loud and clear!
She knows my heart…she knows exactly how I feel about everything…..I made it pretty clear, and yes I know that it pushed her back a few steps.
However, she is still there…she is still keeping in touch, still letting me know that there are things that she thinks about.
Being friends with someone you are deeply in love with and want so much more with…really [censored]!
But, It’s a lot better than the alternative…and in my case a complete 180 from 6 months ago!
That being said….I know that there isn’t a BF alive that would allow their GF to go out hanging with their ex…..
There was something I said about her new figure just 3 days earlier when we were golfing…something about her guns and her being buff….but in a good way, as she looked incredibale!
Anyway, she texted me again last night (late) when I know she should have been texting her bf instead of some silly insecure moment she was having and needed my validation on for her to feel better….but she reached out for that clarification because she gives my words and opinions far too much power.
I explained it in a way that left her happy to hear that it was all good…..
And she followed it up with a few light texts in the morning before work.

I have to be patient….as I only see this as a good thing….even if it’s only about being friends….I am going to be the best damn friend I can be!
But I’m not going to pretend not to want more….and eventually and periodically ask for it, and want to talk about it
Posted By: whitneypinch Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/21/13 10:20 AM
JJAC2005,

My XW and I did a few things together in the first year and a half after BD.
We also spoke more back then.
It was her way of trying to just keep the piece and have everything run smoothly.
I only say this for you to be aware.

There are some positives in your situation but TRY to keep expectations at ZERO and not mind read.

Just keep doing what works ....
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/21/13 11:00 AM
Have you done any DB coaching ?
Have you tried doing some family things together...like holidays or activities?
What other books have you read?
The other book that helped me was give to me by my brother after he saw a marriage work shop thru his church..."I do again" by Cheryl & Jeff Scruggs
A good read as well as some great point on marital roles.
Posted By: whitneypinch Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/21/13 11:08 AM
Yep, early on I did a bunch of DB coaching. I also went to therapy for a year.

Early on it was too painful to do things together with the kids.
The truth is now would be the ideal time to do stuff together as a family or just her and I. Unfortunately she is with someone else. I have asked her out for a walk recently but she said "she can't, and I should not ask".

I have read about 20 books on marriage, divorce, relationships, love, communications etc.
I am very familiar with the Scruggs story. Its heartbreaking and inspirational, especially what happened to their daughter.

So, as you can see, I have done it all.
Even my XW has comment on what an awesome father and person I am......
So, what can ya do..

I just continue to grow as a person and be kind and appreciative.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/21/13 11:18 AM
Whit....
Thanks for keeping me grounded on "expectations" as I try to keep them at zero.
The positives are evident but honestly, since there isn't really any tie between us like children together, one has to realize that there is more to how she views things and what she finds valuable enough to want to still have a available in her life.
I can see that is where "hope" lives.....and striving to become the kind of man only a fool walks away from
Posted By: whitneypinch Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/21/13 11:20 AM
Yep....

Keep doing what you are doing... you never know what can happen.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/23/13 10:07 PM
Silly me....silly question.....but I was wondering about detachement and still being so darn "in love" with the ex....who seems to be getting more and more involved with her new bf??
What about it makes me so irritated?
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/23/13 10:43 PM
And on a sidenote why do we always want to go a lot quicker than the process allows, as for some reason just when we get a glimmer that things are moving along in favorable direction....we always want to rush it frown
The first 21 days of June where the night and day difference from six months ago with my ex, as things seemed to be heading in a grat area of a new friendship and now I'm feeling like a complete doofus for the way my heart is pushing over reactive buttons in my brain!
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 06/30/13 11:58 PM
As lessons go.....
Patience is by far the most valuable!

Getting excited about progress, no matter how great or small, is all too natural...
But we have to always keep our feet on the ground, our heads in the now, as well as the end goal....and be true to ourselves!
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 07/02/13 02:31 AM
heres a little tid-bit that actually makes me grin....and laugh at myself for being such a dumb ass sometimes!
I can see that even after some minor little setbacks (tipping my hand, doing a little pursuing) The ex is still initiating communication......I sense her caution, but she continues to text me now and then.

I know that she still has feelings....
Posted By: MrBond Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 07/02/13 02:33 AM
"I know that she still has feelings...."

Don't mindread into this. If you're wrong you are going to be sent back into a tailspin and the anger will be back. Just let things go.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 07/02/13 04:13 AM
I've made that mistake 2x now....not so much as a misread, but as far as acting on it myself.
My instinct tells me that there has to be something left on that other level and my hardest lesson is "patience"
After all she is still talking to me and is sincere about building a friendship
Posted By: MrBond Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 07/02/13 08:44 PM
"Friendship" is different from a M. She may want to remain friends for the sake of the kids. You just don't know.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 07/03/13 12:18 AM
Very true Mr. Bond...She may only be interested in a friendship. I can see that at this point that her trust and interest are seeking validation and assessing future risk and benefit options.
However, Friendships are a base layer on which to build other things.....and I'm not being overly hopeful, but that romantic chemistry, that energy that was in our marriage, is still there, it’s never been the issue.
I have admitted my faults, failure, and short comings to her in great depth and detail, to which she has stated that she even has learned a lot from my perspectives in what I have been able to relay to her about our relationship dynamics and the "divorce trap" so many couples fall into. Plus, I have addressed them to the enth degree...and I continue to learn and improve on all levels.
That brings the question of whether or not my ex has done any work on her own issues....which I highly doubt at this point.
I will continue to be patient...but I have already tipped my hand twice, and she knows exactly where I stand, and what I eventually want out of our relationship.
I can/will always have hope!
Posted By: MrBond Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 07/03/13 12:27 AM
"that romantic chemistry, that energy that was in our marriage, is still there, it’s never been the issue."

It's nice to think that, but just be aware of what might happen if she finds someone else. Just saying. Good luck.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 07/03/13 12:48 AM
Mr Bond.
she is dating someone now....
and has been seeing him since Nov '12.....Not too sure about how deep or involved it goes (don’t really care)
But at this point, for her to want to remain friendly or pursue a friendship when there really isn’t anything that ties us to that type of a relationship other than the fact that we enjoy each other’s company……I am optimistic....I'm hopeful....and I cannot thank you enough for all your comments and insight, and for the luck my way! I certainly need it!
I'm in a place right now where it really doesn’t matter either way.
I have said my piece...I have planted the seeds of "what if" and "if we only would have done or known this"
And to that she will have to digest on her own....
The reasons for our divorce were not worthy of giving up on the love we had and I feel still have for each other.
She knows this and will be watching to see if I indeed do become the kind of man only a fool would walk away from.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 07/03/13 01:14 AM

Originally Posted By: JJAC2005
I have said my piece...I have planted the seeds of "what if" and "if we only would have done or known this"
And to that she will have to digest on her own....


Add to this of course all of the personal growth I have been able to experience and learn from, my new found physical and mental self, the work on GAL, 180's, and becoming grounded again in what I need and want for my own happiness...and if it is to be down the road, "our own happiness"

I'm thinking that I'm going to be OK afterall....;)
Posted By: dustmeoff Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 07/10/13 03:35 AM
'reconciliations do happen but healthy ones usually happen when both people have disconnected from the unhealthy previous relationship, have grown, and have been disconnected enough to honestly feel how it is to be alone and without their former partner.'

Priceless
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 07/19/13 01:16 PM
A very true statement.....
However, the here is "both" people have had to have done some sort of introspective changes on themselves!
Posted By: whitneypinch Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 07/19/13 01:34 PM
Boy, this is a tough situation to be in.

I have not seen a 'friendship" turn back into a relationship when it comes to a WAW.
I have seen it on these boards for men going back to their women but not women going back to their men (if they were a WAW).

I too am in a similar situation. Have had a couple of interactions with XW such as dinner out with the kids, breakfasts out with the kids etc.

She stared to see someone and was really serious and then broke it off. It hurt our kids so badly that my 10 year old daughter ended up in therapy.

Sometimes I just feel that these WAW are just trying to make piece with us, ease their guilt and show the kids that this is all ok.
My X tells me over and over she has no interest in me yet we do some things together as a family.

I think I am getting to the point of just wanting to tell her to get lost.


So much of DB is working on ourselves to be the man that no women would want to leave. I am starting to get resentful of this whole thing. How about accepting us for who we are. Obviously our WAW did not do that and felt the need to leave.
So maybe, they should just leave is alone to get on with our lives.....

Thats my rant for today..
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 07/20/13 02:39 AM
And a perfect rant it is ....thank you!
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 07/23/13 08:45 AM
Well one thing is for sure.... It's a whole lot tougher to dance alone than you would think
Apparently my friendship with my ex has been short-lived as she only says that she wants to maintain it for the kids and I should give up and seek somebody else as a romantic interest
Posted By: whitneypinch Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 07/23/13 10:01 AM
Oh my friend... I am soooo sorry.
This is exactly the situation I am in.

My ex and I get a long great yet she believes the solution is to go find new partners.

Its just so messed up.
As you can tell from my rant above...I want off the roller-coaster.
My divorce has made me a better man and a great father and for that I am thankful.
I am going to work on letting go and moving on.

JJ I hope today is a better day for you.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 07/24/13 02:27 AM
Thanks WP..
Its a bit better....and I agree the roller-coster is a tuff ride!
I feel the same as you as in this whole experience has improved me in so many ways of groth...and sad but the ex isnt really paying any attention to anything other than enjoying herself and living in the moment.
I'm not ready to drop the rope just yet...I'm just going to continue to live a life that makes me look better and better.
I have a lot of ground to make up finacially and I dont think any new relationship fits very well into my schedule right now.
But Im certainly not going to walk around with blinders on either.
Posted By: whitneypinch Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 07/26/13 02:17 PM
Yesterday my X and our 2 kids had breakfast together at a restaurant before dropping off our kids for the camp buses. Our kids go to summer camp for 4 weeks. We took photos of the kids and at one point my X asked someone to take a photo of all 4 of us together. This caught me so off guard. Why would we have a photo of all 4 of us together?

I texted the X last night to see if she was ok now that the kids have left for camp. I suggested to her that we could go and do something together sometime like a movie, walk, or motorcycle ride etc..
Nothing, she did not even respond to me.

This is what we deal with here !!!!
Posted By: whitneypinch Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 07/26/13 02:27 PM
Update...
My X just emailed me.
Here is what she wrote:
"Sorry, but I'm going to pass on hanging out".

So... as you can see she has only hung out just for the kids sake.
As all of us know its really hurtful for the kids to hang out with their families as all they do is get false hopes.

I have GOT to cut the contact with my X. !!!!
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 07/26/13 11:59 PM
I know that it feels like it [censored]...basically cause it suck...lol
However, I feel that there will always be hope if you can get to a different technique that works.
I know its tiring...I know the heart can only take so much...perhaps you need to detach more, ha, like I'm the one to talk on that one eh? Anyway, if you were hoping for something when you offered, that’s where you/we get burned....
I would probably agree and cut contact for some time...continue to be strong for the kids....and always improving yourself.
She may or may not developed an interest down the road....

As in my case...I'm encouraged by a few other stories that a coworker just shared with me about 2 of his friends that went thru the same thing. One got back with his wife about a year later , and the other took about 2 years...one of the couples did not share children together (as in my case).
So, there is hope...it does happen...but most of the time it doesn’t happen very fast.
They have to miss us…and they always do (even if they never come back they will always miss us to a degree)
They have to see the changes are permanent and for the better of us as men that they want to spend their lives with.
They have to trust that we will not back slide into what they walked away from.
So having hope for me is not such a bad thing….I’m still fairly confident that someday, we will have that chance again!
Posted By: whitneypinch Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 07/27/13 12:11 AM
JJ,
Thanks for the reply, I really appreciate it.

I think I am at the point where I am realizing that my XW will never come back.
As I mentioned we have gone out a few times as a family in the last few weeks.
Then the second I suggest to do something together she turns stone cold.
Its just too hard for me.

I have been so kind and caring towards her for 5 years.
I guess I am just burnt out from constantly being rejected.
I just want to have the joy back of sharing my life with someone who thinks I am awesome.

BTW my XW and I did everything together when we were married.

I just don't see her ever having interest, if she does not have any by now.
She has changed so much.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 07/27/13 01:31 AM
Man...I am so sorry
I know how that pain feels...I have had it on and off for not yet a full year now, and I don’t know how long I can go, but at this point I'm willing to still stick with it a while longer, and who knows. I completely understand your position and if you haven’t thought about it yet, you have succeeded more than you know if you are where you want and need to be for your own happiness!
I'm still working with a DB coach so, I've got a few things yet to try down the road....right now, I have to become better at detaching...and I can always work on my patience!
Take a break for a while my friend....your love will never die, but I know you can find it best to give what you have left to someone that really can appreciate all the changes you have made to make you the best “you”, you can be!
Good luck and please keep popping up to give me a little input now and then...its been nice to have someone in my corner that knows exactly what I am going thru
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 08/16/13 09:38 PM
Well....its been a while since I have posted.
Not much to share I guess as far as progress...it seems that things have hit a big pause.
I have been laying low since getting into a little hot water of sorts with contacting my step son and nephew for a lunch date after the family had returned from camping.
We had thought that we had permission...or at least I had thought that my step-son had given his mother a heads up...but it didnt happen that way and later that same evening she texted me to inform me that my privileges had been revoked for the remainder of the summer, as for the lunch dates, sleep over’s, activities, or any other contact was off limits for the remainder of the summer.
The boy and I communicated one last time that evening talking about how unfortunate the situation was and that we had to respect the law of the land, even if we really felt we didn’t deserve the punishment handed out..it was still her call.
Too bad….the boy later became so upset that he basically ran away for about an hour or so to cool off and really freaked his mother out.

I had one small conversation the next day with her in an little attempt to clarify that we both didn’t know that she didn’t know, and that it didn’t make any sense that we/I would (mainly me) jeopardize any of the progress we had just been getting since the end of school and beginning of summer…..I know that I should have double checked, but honestly I thought she already had gotten a heads up from the boy, and it was only lunch….

Anyway…it came at the back end of what I had thought was the beginning of some progress as to the ex contacting me w/o provocation as there had been a slew of texting back and for the previous week about running the local 5k’s and an out of town race I did with the dog….as well as her informing me (keeping me posted on her cardiac condition) her having to now where a monitor for the rest of the month to get some readings on her heart rhythms

Its now been a month since we chatted….and I am in no way going to attempt any contact…but I was just starting to do some pondering about the upcoming anniversary date of our divorce, and our wedding later in the end of the month.
We divorced a year ago Aug 22….and our anniversary is Aug. 27th (would be 8 yrs)
Have to say…I’m a bit moody….and emotional as of late….my head seems to still get stuck in a few too many what if’s!
I just came from a golf outing today at a course where my ex and I play just this past father’s day and we had a blast….but then again, I wrecked that day by over thinking, over reacting, and really feel I blew a huge opportunity that night by not staying relaxed…..basing my reactions on how much fun we had together.

I understand that it’s not about the fun times….or the attraction…..or the comfort levels we have for each other.
It’s all about trust….it’s all about how much pain I caused her to feel in her heart….and that wound still needs time to heal.

But if anyone has a few comments or suggestions on anything…I’d love to hear them….just need a little spark to kick me into another gear.
Thanks
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 08/17/13 05:32 PM
I was reviewing a text that my ex sent the other day after pointing out to me that she had bf...
My pride, my ego, my needs and my selfish ways
Caused a good strong woman like you to walk out my life
Now I never, never get to clean up the mess I made
And it haunts me every time I close my eyes
It all just sounds like uh, uh, uh, uh

Too young, too dumb to realize
That I should have bought you flowers and held your hand
Should have gave all my hours when I had the chance
Take you to every party cause all you wanted to do was dance
Now my baby is dancing, but she's dancing with another man.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 08/17/13 05:39 PM
I just thought it was quite convenient that she knew exactly what song fit exactly the right moment when we hadn't talked in a few months.
As you can see....WAW Spouse's still think about things we don't give them credit for....they do check back in their own way!
Reason enough to always look better in every way.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 08/17/13 06:36 PM
yes, this was a song quote from Bruno Mars....and after listening to it I had to admit, it hurt me to know that this is how she saw it....or still sees my actions as her husband.
Even if, I did get her flowers, hold her hand, do tons of romantic gestures....it just fits the essence of how she saw it as a whole.
Posted By: Live4myDay Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 08/20/13 08:27 PM
JJ, I'm curious. It's been two years from my divorce and XH has been with OW now since the separation. They live in different states and see each other prob 2x a month. However, they have gone on European 10 day excursion and spent 2 week holidays and extended weekends together. How do YOU handle the fact that X is with someone else? I go back and forth with hope and then back again with "look how happy he is without me"... X has no contact with me other than 2 kids S21/D22. D lives with me and he contacts her only...its as if I died. Never mentions me or asks. Completely gone but I still love him and never wanted divorce either. Honestly, sometimes I get just so obsessed with his actions with OW and not his kids. Trying not to go the "I hate him route". Do you know the OM? or anthing of their R?
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 08/22/13 01:17 PM
L4MD...nice of you to drop in.
I'm not sure what the best answer is here, because honestly I do have mixed feelings from day to day. (sometimes our egos play with us).
After I first found out about her dating, I admit I dug around a lot to find anything and everything I could about what, why, when, and how...things that were similar, different, ect.
I will say that I learned a valuable lesson in wondering about it, and that is, our memories are always with them....and their relationship is non of my business, as its not my relationship anymore, its hers, and she is no longer my wife.
And even though I still love her, and care about her in every way, she is an adult that has her own life to live...And my job now is to make my life the best life it can be for me, and if that builds a bridge to a reunion/reconciliation in the future, I think that would be fantastic! Hope can be a great thing, once we truly are detached....
I can take pride in knowing that in my heart and mind that there is absolutely no way that what ever fun they are having at tha moment, its just never going to surpass any of our own past experiences as a family or as a couple, nor can it replace the love bond that we shared.
I gain comfort knowing that for me it seems as though its just an activity of the 2 of them enjoying the moment, and those moments don't carry with it any true reality, such a life together when you come home and have to deal with it....because as sure as the nose on my face, if they had to spend time day to day coming up with ways to get thru even the little things, the pictures would be a bit less fun.
I pray for reconciliation daily....I pray for that heart to soften enough to give us another chance....leave it up to God....and I trust that it will be healed as it should be.

Today, is a very sad day of sorts....as it is the 1st year anniversary of my divorce.....and yes, I cried last night before going to sleep and again this morning with my coffee as I watched the sun come up over the trees.
I would say that this has been the most incredible year of my life ever...I have learned so much and felt so much more than I dreamed possible....I know that my changes are going to be noticed someday by my ex....and that's what I am counting on, that's what gives me hope.
Posted By: Live4myDay Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 08/23/13 02:04 AM
JJ...wow. I needed to hear that. You are so much further along than me. I'm printing what you posted to add to my book to reflect upon. I need to get to the place where you are at. I tell myself all the time, I'm not his wife anymore. he is not my husband.

I would hope that my memories have meaning, more so than his new ones with OW. He has torn me down so much and replaced everything good about us with tainted memories of his creation. He makes his life out with OW to be all that and how we could have never been anything more.

Who knows maybe it will come full circle. I pray. Sometimes I think this is God's plan to move on and He has someone else is in His plan for me. Then I think that this man I married was the plan...will always be the plan. He hates divorce and my XH has chosen a different path by his free will. Will he ever find me again?

Detachment is so dead on...but so hard to accept. That's where faith comes in. You can't go wrong in praying for what God has in his plan.

I don't know. Honestly, if he came back tmr I would have to try to R...but as my kids tell me...would you really want him after everything he's done to you? Like the prodigal son...I would have to believe in love.

Just they the X are searching for something that was right in front of them all along... love and 2 amazing kids and amazing families (his and mine) all for what?

I just have to pray and believe in something. I will keep reading your post, because you have truly helped me realize I have so much more work to do on me.
Thanks.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 08/23/13 09:53 PM
L4MD...
Glad you can take a few of my words and put them to use....honestly, I have to remind myself to practice what I am learning almost daily.
I have to admit, I still have a lot of peaks and valleys on my emotions....one of my biggest hurdles is/was that I don’t have children with my ex...and she really doesn’t have a reason to stay in contact. And if you have read any of my early sitch, I was really close with my step kids, but my ex wasn’t allowing for any contact until just this past June...lots of confusion has taken place on that issue alone.
Which I guess if you think about it, when she has contacted me or returned contact, it could/can always be taken as a good sign.

I did want to say that I have a few other sources of inspiration…. after I was given a copy of a book "I Do Again" and from there basically have given a lot of my worries/problems up to God.
I also have been working with a coach for a plan of action and feel that it helps, but there are still conflicting thoughts on how best to proceed....I know you have read this a lot around here, but the biggest thing is practicing patience…I know of 2 success stories thru a friend, and 2 personally where the individuals were divorced, and remarried their ex’s
I know its hard…incredibly hard at times….I still feel so married in my heart, and I want my family back more than anything.
But believe me, until my ex recognizes that she really does miss me and that I have a great deal of value to add to her life…I don’t see me getting a second chance anytime soon.
That’s exactly what I use to keep me motivated until then…
I know that her current situation cannot be sustained for another year without some sort of “trouble in paradise”
But in the slim chance that she and her current BF do work out…I am detaching enough to make my own progress even greater and more impressive w/o her
“We all should be striving to be the kind of spouse only a fool would leave” as this is what will make any future relationship successful!
Hope your days are getting better….note to yourself that it’s ok to feel the pain now and then….we all have ups and downs!
Peace Be With You….
Posted By: Cadet Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 08/24/13 11:12 AM
Originally Posted By: JJAC2005
it’s all about how much pain I caused her to feel in her heart….and that wound still needs time to heal.

Why do you think this is about YOU?

Dont you think she had something to do with this too?

You are correct that she needs to heal.
But they are not injurys that you caused.
You maybe just did not let them heal on their own.

Make sense?
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 08/24/13 01:36 PM
Why do I think its about me?
Honestly, I don't think that it is 100% me...however, looking back I can see that a lot of my actions (mostly unintentional, and stupidity based) were damaging enough to erode the trust she had given me to not hurt her.
From there it was all about the eventual breakdown in all the classic forms....

My wants/desires/feelings are seemingly pretty well known now, and due to my not so gallant attempts at staying composed when seeing progress, my ex has really been busy building up walls, and repairing the cracks I had just begun to see openings in at the begging of the summer.

I understand that my ex has her own views, her own demos, her own injuries to address....and giving her that time and space will be good for that.
But I know you are right on when you imply that I may have tried to help them heal more rapidly....I am a fixer by nature, and I hate to see someone I love in pain if I can help (especially if I feel responsible).
I am learning though, and found a great short clip for men to watch giving a great lesson on just letting their partner figure it out. If this link doesn't work, Google "it's not about the nail" Jason Headley (on you tube)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg
Posted By: Live4myDay Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 08/28/13 04:33 AM
JJ, i don't understand at this point what a coach is doing? Please explain. I feel that my X is so far gone with no contact. Is this something I should be doing? Has this helped?
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 08/28/13 06:04 PM
L4MD
Are you asking what a coach can do for you at this point, or as far as what the coach is doing for me in my situation right now?

What is you goal....? Your life goal?
Posted By: Live4myDay Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 08/29/13 01:04 AM
JJ, Well, I know for me it's a long way off before he even can see me again...so I'm doing my GAL, PMA, 180's...working on me stuff. I suppose that's what the coach is helping you with? I mean I have no contact with X...a very few exceptions, such as asking me about cremation bill regarding our dog.

He doesn't ask or want to know about me (guilt, shame, too hurt, i don't know) but honestly he acts as if he's all ok with everything and mature about it all. Still very angry with me and can't look me in eye when we do run across each other which is about twice a year.

I just hope he may hear of how wonderful I'm doing through my friends family and possibly mutual friends on facebook. It just doesn't seem to phase him.

If and I mean if, he ever thinks about us, it will be 20 years down the road as he is in love with this OW. As he told my parents they are compatible and have so much in common. I expect now they will marry at some point. It's been going on 3 years with long distance relationship...every visit is a honeymoon.

Not sure how a coach could help me on this...

My goal...I'd like for him to see me as the person he fell in love with. He made me into such a monster, such a horrible person compared to his new soulmate. He's told me, I don't like who you are as a person. A lot of very hurtful things. I've slowely gained "respect" from being the caretake of our D. But I'm a mom and he still has a lot of faults with that (being an enabler and not helping her independence). Things of which he has no idea what goes on since he is a Holiday dad visiting twice a year.

Anyway, my goals to achieve this would be:

1. Live my live as Assertive, Independent, self-assured person

2. learn to communicate and present myself in the above manner without the sarcasm, blame, victimization, etc.

3. become more healthy through cooking (D already lost 20 lbs.) I'm a GREAT cook but to him I don't cook healthy. He's all into eating healthy now with OW.

4. become more athletic. I used to bike to work and ride 30 miles a day, etc. You know with kids, job, lifestyle, it became harder and harder to have time for me. Now just as hard as I care 24/7 for D. but I have to make it work, for me! I want to lose weight in the process and go for trail hikes and ride bikes again. I joined a dragon boating club. things like that I used to be a part of.

5. Financial independence. I do accounting bookkeeping for a living but never made time to keep our personal finances in order. He didn't help either. We lost everything after D accident, house, car, truck, credit, business, etc. Blamed me for all of it...took some of the credit but mostly me because I had worked for our business for 10 years. When market bottomed out and couldn't stay a float, it was my fault. I just started Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University classes WITH my D. She's 22 and I want her to learn about her own money.


Ok...my life goal, once I achieve my 180's:

1. D independence. Not out of my life but where she can live on her own whether with hired help, or a relationship.
2. Companionship/Friendship
3. Financial Stability

I would love nothing more than to grow old together with my X and have our family D and S and their families together. Reconciled with both sides of families and mature the love we truly have for each other.... yeah and cinderella lived happily every after.

If not X, I know the kind of person I want to be with. Not searching but eventully I feel God will lead me to him...I pray it's my X.

I don't know how that will ever happen. I have nothing but love for him, yet his R with OW is starting to eat away at me. My sister said I need a rebound...someone to take my mind away from him and put back on me.

What do you think? I know pretty long and not meaning to hack, but honestly, how can coaching DB help me now going 3 years divorce with no contact?

That's why I asked you...you may have more contact on a monthly even weekly basis so there are instinances, but what can I do? but patience patience patience and wait for him (WAS not so much MLC) to get his heart broken by OW. I don't see it happening. And when I do become the BEST me that only a fool would leave... He'll be happy for me. Is it possible to change that around? Not when you're invisible and buried while OW on pedastyle.
Posted By: Live4myDay Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/02/13 01:03 AM
Can someone please add to my reply? How can a coach help at this point?

JJ, how often do you talk to your coach and what are your goals?
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/02/13 03:29 PM
Well, as far as I know, or have learned about the process so far….everything is pivotal on how well we continue to live without our spouses…and that includes everything that we need to do “just for ourselves”.
We can always remain hopeful that they notice and want to try again, with a new and improved us….because we didn’t want that other relationship either, we were as tired and frustrated about things (perhaps not exactly the same things) as they were, and we just didn’t know what else to do at the time.
Tragically you and I (as well as others in our same sit), were very unfortunate in our situations to have found the tools to repairing and recovering our marriages before our divorce, and saw the other person moving on w/o us….the good thing about it…and probably the best thing of all is that we learned and continue to learn…we learned so much about ourselves, about others, about relationships, about struggles and joys, and about the realities of how a loving marriage can be when you.

As for the Divorce Busting counseling/coaching helping me and my situation, I believe that its pretty tailored to the individual situation, however the same basic principles are always followed…and that is developing a stronger, better more confident and consistent version of yourself.
I don not have any consistent contact…and it dropped off the grid completely since mid June….so basically I haven’t spoken/emailed/or text to or from my ex in over 6 weeks.
I don’t know what she may have been thinking over the past few significant dates in Aug….I can only hope that she had some sort of positive memory pop up when our anniversary came…or perhaps a tinge of sadness at the divorce date being a full year now.
I will continue to keep the path clear for that return home, if that is where she find herself wanting to be down the road…I will also continue to periodically ask about seeing the kids or doing a lunch or some other sort of get together activity. I know that the boy cannot wait for the end of summer to have our restrictions lifted so we can see each other.

As to DB coaching for you…I am sure that they would be able to give you a much more positive outlook on what you can try…at the very least, they will be able to help you assess what you need to do for yourself….they are very wise on these matters….and also very compassionate.

I want to thank you for your patience…I know you may have been looking for a reply a lot sooner than this….I didn’t forget, I was just attending to a few other things and wanted to sit and write after I had had time to get back to you w/o distractions.
Also thank you for the compliments on how well I am doing…it means more than you know, especially when I don’t notice it as much as others do….I will admit I still have some very weak moments on missing my wife and family, and from what I can tell, its still pretty normal. I try to use those moments as motivation and continue to get back on my way to a better life for all of us!
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/02/13 03:49 PM
LFMD...

I would call or write an inquiry letter to DB to get a little more feedback on how specifically they can help you and your situation…
From my perspective, the coaching has been a huge part in saving me from imploding in the wrong direction…and its been used with a combination of things that aids me in keeping on tract with my goals….
I also have to add that I had to re-read the book again….as well as I keep my faith to God and add prayer to my daily routine. There are a few other stories on Youtube about others that have “divorced and remarried” and I used that term to search for them.
My most positive role model is the story of “I Do Again”, by Jeff and Sheryl Scruggs.

I hope you have some luck….I know its tuff to stay positive, but keep your chin up, you are worth it!
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/02/13 04:31 PM
On another note....you asked me what my goals are?

The main goal is for me to Become a Better Version of the guy that my ex fell for in the beginning of our relationship....to Become the kind of husband only a fool would walk away from.

And you know what....I'm getting closer each and every day! ;-)
Posted By: Live4myDay Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/03/13 06:12 PM
JJ, thanks for the update. I was worried that my post got a little to personal and interrupted your post.

I never realized how many people have to go through this. If 50% of marriages end in D then at least half of those people are going through the same type of endings.

The goal to become a better vision of you when they fell in love in the beginning may be different now for them. 21 years later I think my X is looking for something that "he" always wanted to be. But in many ways I was like the person he is with now...only she has no kids no baggage that I know of and is free to do what ever wherever etc. Doesn't have the 21 years of history of ups/downs with each other and various elements that contribute such as kids, money, business, families, dying parents, handicap daughters, etc.

The best me is living my life as a happy, joyous, grateful, loving, God fearing, compassionate, open, honest me...so much more to me.

I don't think X will ever see that side of me again. I want to read the book "I do again" been to 2 different stores and neither had it. Have to order online. I do feel so hopeless when it comes to R especially with OW in picture.

I know I am the kind of wife only a fool would walk away from. I stepped up to the plate and am making a life for my D and I without him. He see's it all differently... I just want him to see the real me again not the contrived person he wants me to be to justify his leaving.

How do you get to the point of the better version without her even noticing or looking?
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/03/13 08:33 PM
L4MD
I hear you...and truly feel your pain! I am sorry that you are going thru this w/o as much as a smallest little contact now and then from your ex.
I see that there are a lot of things that DB refers to as trying as LRT and I am too much of a new-be in the ways of DBing, to accurately give you advice on what you could change or continue to try that might bring about some sort of interest or dialog.
I have heard a nice catch phrase a little bit ago...as I did it w/o knowing what I did, but I was/am disrupting the disruption.
I am doing this by not doing what the ex is really expecting me to be doing....as I had been dropping into contact every now and then with an email, or a short little text about every3-4 weeks....but I haven't done or made any attempts at contact for almost 7 weeks now.
I feel conflicted some days, but more often I have been feeling almost liberated from some of that attachment that went along with it.
I may not be correct on this, but your situation sounds more like MLC now than WAS...so you might want to do a bit more research in that area.
I have some of that going on, but still get the feeling that I am dealing mainly with a WAW situation.
So, if you are feeling already that you are the kind of wife only a fool would walk away from ...Id say you already have a one up on the OW...besides that, you said it yourself...you have a rich history and life together with your ex that she cant ever have those same life experiences...especially if they only get together a few times a month.
I know that the counseling/coaching isn't cheap, but after the first few sessions you get a direction and goals laid out enough to set it up as a tune up now and then for you as you need it.
How do I get to where I am better, and get her to notice...I'm not 100% sure on that yet....but I have work to do...I know that shes not going anywhere soon, and if I need to put it out there in a more direct way, I am not opposed to doing it...I mean at that pint you still have a 50/50 chance it working, and If it doesn't work at all, you still have planted some seeds to grow.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/03/13 08:39 PM
Also...I found this interesting

Statistics Regarding Restored Marriages

Statistics for restored marriages, where ex-spouses remarry each other, may be somewhat surprising. While statistics in Psychology Today suggest that 67% of second marriages and 73% of third marriages end in divorce, things seem to go a little better for people who remarry their spouses.
Reunited

Dr. Nancy Kalish has researched rekindled romances since the early 1990s. Her research focuses on ex-boyfriend and girlfriends who reconnect with lost partners after a five-year break. The first phase of her research, which ended in 1996, consisted of approximately 1,000 survey respondents. In the end, Kalish found that overall, 72% of reunited partners stayed together.

Remarriages After Divorce

Kalish is not the only individual who researched remarriage statistics. Michele Weiner-Davis, who holds a Master of Social Work and who has received awards from the Association of Marriage and Family Therapy, operates the Divorce Busting center. She has investigated remarriage between spouses and has said that as many as 10% of divorced spouses remarry.
Posted By: Live4myDay Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/05/13 12:37 AM
JJ, I got the book "I do again" and I can't put it down...it is sooooo everything to the tee except kinda role reversal. He found someone else. Well and the fact our D was in horrific life threatening accident that catapulted me back into relationship and him immediately out of it.

Haven't gotten to the meaty stuff yet about the in between years, Seems long and time is all I've got right now.

Praying that he'll come around for all the right reasons.

What about you? any encouraging contact?
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/05/13 01:45 AM
Nothing yet....and really nothing planned until the official end of Summer when the punishment is lifted.
All in good time....as the more I show her respect and honor her requests, the more trust I can regain....the more trust regained....hopes that eventually leads to more contact. The boy and I are looking fwd to getting together...of course I will invite the daughter to join, but so far she hasn't made any move to want more contact...hope it's more her age than something else. The boy says that she did mention missing me a few times but they are fighting more than talking the past few months...typical teens.

I just sat down to look thru my latest book purchase as I picked up 3 new ones from the Smalley Relationship Center "Winning your wife back before it is too late" and "Men's Relational Toolbox" and "If Only He Knew, what no woman can resist"
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/05/13 11:40 AM
L4MD....I love that book.
I have used it as a springboard of inspiration at some very dark times....
I also think that it gave me so much more than hope for a restored marriage, it brought me closer to understanding what God intended for us as a husband and wife.

Stay positive...stay inspired....stay true to yourself!
Posted By: Live4myDay Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/07/13 05:47 PM
JJ...ok finished the book. Well I have to say that the beginning of the realization of their emotions and what they were dealing with and the way things spun out of control was sooo on target. I mean I kept thinking I should send a copy of book to my X just so he could process it all and understand it.

I do not have young kids and we are not in each others lives. If he has those feelings of somethings not right I don't think he will ever reflect that it's our M. Like the woman in book he is in lala land with the throughs of a new relationship. Soulmates. I always tell him to find God again. It's a path he has to take to find us again.

I know he's mentioned to D how he goes to church when he can and is doing his own reflection, but like the book the OW calls and it's like a drug addiction and he runs away from what is hurting him the most.

I just wish I had kids to secretly plant ideas and thoughts of R into his mind. I mean I do have kids and I'm working on my GAL and 180s and all and those are the seeds...patience right?

I just feel he's missing out on so much with D and S in these young adult years and he manages to convince himself that he has as much contact as he needs to. There's nothing that could keep me away from them.

Just recently an incident came up with my sister contacting my X in regards to money situation and told X she didn't ask for the money hoping that he would see his D more since it's so hard because we live so far apart.

It ended up my D told her dad that it's ok you don't visit cause if she was in college and in a normal body person he wouldn't be visiiting as much anyway.

Argh!! I said but your not in that position!!! You still need your dad to be here for you. It's like she protects him or helps to justify it.

Anyway, I agree with what you wrote about the gaining trust and earning respect which may lead to other things. I think that is how I'm handling it. Just being all that God wants and asks us to be.

I've been reading alot on obidience to the Lord. and well this trial I'm going through says alot. These past 4 years since accident has brought me closer to God and like the book...he should have always been 1st.

How's your weekend going?
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/07/13 09:59 PM
Hey there girl....
nice of you to drop me a note...I was looking for it! ;-)
Well..honestly my weekend could be going better...LOL
I'm working...all WEEKEND.....as I just changed spots for someone on the day shift.
I was thinking of you and the book the past few days.
Glad you enjoyed it...hopefully it puts a new perspective on the word "patience"
Believe me when I say this…it’s the number 1 thing I have had to learn (and am still learning) thru this entire experience….
Here is a good example of being human….or recognizing we are human…with a unique ability to apply reasoning skills to our behaviors and emotions.

You know the rational for leaving it alone……giving it time..….giving it space…..letting things heal over if you will.
All of the detachment helps us way more in the end…but we have to relax enough to allow for that to take place.
On the flip side of that mind-set you tend to get anxious as you don’t know if that letting it be will do anything more than gently increase the distance between you and what our/ your heart truly wants.
You want so badly to speed up that process….this pain you have, hurts like nothing you could have imagined hurting you before. (And its constant)
You want another chance….long for it……dream of it……pray for it…and prepare for it like nothing you have ever done compares to its importance…..and you know without a doubt that if they could…if they only would, take a look at what you/we have discovered….BAM…it would change everything!
Not so easy…and definitely not so fast….we had to come to this learning for a reason….lets take this lesson in and make sure that it’s the life changer that we need it to be.
If they notice…it will really peak their curiosity….if not, it becomes another lesson that they learn from not wanting to know more about loving better…deeper….and stronger than ever before.

Like I was saying I picked up the Love Dare the other day....very interesting that I had that exact same book in my handsonly a few years ago....hmmmm....makes you wonder, nod doesnt it?
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/07/13 10:02 PM
BTW....the very first chapter in the Love Dare....relates directly to patience!
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/11/13 07:20 PM
Quandary?
Perhaps....a bit of how you view pursuit.

I was asked a while ago that if I still wanted to reconcile with my ex why didn't I just ask her or let her know my desires?
This is based I think mainly on the fact that I am in a unique situation of not sharing children with my ex....and she has really NO real reason to stay friends or in any type of friendly contact. The other main reason I am sure others have asked me to go ahead and let my position be know to my ex is that they think that I could stay in some sort of holding pattern of "hope" as life passes me by.
I try to assure those that share their concern for me, although greatly appreciated, I am well aware of moving on from a relationship, and moving ahead with my life.
And my life is moving ahead very well thank you...

I have been under the impression that from a DB standpoint, we are to avoid R talks, as to not look like we are pursuing the R
But after speaking with several Christian based organizations and professionals, they thought that I should at some point state my desire to reconcile, but to do it in a way as to not pressure for it...as in just being content to be in the moment and build on the friendship as it leads to a deeper trust in the desired change. But not in a way that would indicate that if we talked today, and dated next week, that it will all be a path for reconciliation....they just want the pressure taken out of it....but the desire to be known.

Does anyone have any input on this type of disclosure?
Posted By: MrBond Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/11/13 07:43 PM
"I was asked a while ago that if I still wanted to reconcile with my ex why didn't I just ask her or let her know my desires?
This is based I think mainly on the fact that I am in a unique situation of not sharing children with my ex."

It's not a unique situation. In fact you raised her D and son for most of their lives so you should have some kind of connection to her. I mean you do care for your step D and S right?

"The other main reason I am sure others have asked me to go ahead and let my position be know to my ex is that they think that I could stay in some sort of holding pattern of "hope" as life passes me by."

What have you been doing since your D? Have you not progressed in life? That is one thing that you shouldn't be doing. As long as she feels you will always be there, she will have no incentive to look back your way.

"I have been under the impression that from a DB standpoint, we are to avoid R talks, as to not look like we are pursuing the R"

Yes, but again, every sitch is different. If doing one thing hasn't produced any results, you do something different. Either way, don't put your life on hold for her.

"But after speaking with several Christian based organizations and professionals, they thought that I should at some point state my desire to reconcile, but to do it in a way as to not pressure for it...as in just being content to be in the moment and build on the friendship as it leads to a deeper trust in the desired change."

If you tell her that you want to reconcile, she will shut the door on you immediately. HOWEVER, if you contact her in a friendly manner to ask how your stepkids are doing and then slowly lead into how she's doing, you'll be able to get in that way. BUT be sure that if she asks you how you are doing, DO NOT tell her that you are hoping the two of you get together again.

"But not in a way that would indicate that if we talked today, and dated next week, that it will all be a path for reconciliation....they just want the pressure taken out of it....but the desire to be known."

Won't work. In fact it may take awhile for you to even get her to go out and have even coffee with her, so forget about a date.

"Does anyone have any input on this type of disclosure?"

Doesn't sound like closure to me. Anyway, you told her that you wanted to reconcile before and haven't said or done anything to prove anything else. What makes you think saying it again will help? All it will do is show her that you're still waiting for her like some weird stalker.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/12/13 12:50 AM
Bond...
I agree...I have learned a ton since discovering DB....I just wish I could have held back on a few of my reactions to some of the positives that were begining to show back in May, June and July.
With each positive I saw...I ended up over thinking and over reacting to the point that it pushed the walls to go back up again.
I have honored her wishes and not sought out a play date or meeting to see the kids since my mishap on the luch date mid July...and the end of summer is officially coming up in a week, so I can wait that one out.

I really dont see that I have put my life on hold....except in the area of dating (but I am just not into anyone I have met, and still only want one woman)
I have made huge progress on - 180's - GAL - working out, running 5k's, training for triathlons, - working on getting back into a masters program - gaining more financial independence and security - I have become much more connected with getting back to church, God and actively practice my faith - plus I am feeling better about every aspect of my life....and really feel that I am a way better person for al that I have learned in the past year. I most definately am a way better version of the man I was when my ex first met and fell in love with me.
My plan was to wait til the first day of Fall to send her a little note to let her know that I admit my mistakes of adhering to her rules or conditions for interaction, and would like the opportunity to continue to see the kids on what ever terms she see's as nessasary for her comfort.
I want to assure her that my intentions to see the kids are strickly about them and about only wanting to stay a small part of their lives as they continue to grow into adulthood. it has nothing to do with her...only the kids and me.
I want to thank her for all that she has done in the past for allowing me the opportunity to have had them in my life to this point, and hope she can see the benefits of continuing to have an adult that cares for nad loves her children as much as she does...and wants to see them succeed in anything that they would like to try.

Sent from my iPad
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/12/13 12:52 AM
in other words....I have been dark since July
with No contact what so ever to the ex.....nor has she tried to send me any
Posted By: Live4myDay Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/13/13 01:10 AM
MrBond...I find your responses invaluable! I mean you put it out there and make you realize what is the root of what is going on in our minds.

Do you find there is a difference between the male vs female WAS in coming full circle and returning? I sometimes think the male is proud to admit what he did and come back.

I don't think JJ was saying he wanted closure as much as "disclosure". Putting it all on the table.
Posted By: MrBond Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/13/13 01:20 AM
"Do you find there is a difference between the male vs female WAS in coming full circle and returning?"

There are differences. Women tend to (not all) base things on more emotion than men. When women leave, many times they'll have a fall back plan like having someone to be with once they jump ship. Many times men would just leave.

Either way it really comes down to the individual. If they do the "work" on themselves and go through the trials they need to on their own, they will find out what they have. In any case, the revelation that they usually have to achieve is that their happiness resides in themselves and is not a result of external factors. Think about those times when you see a less fortunate family, but they are happy to be with one another compared to a rich couple who may have everything yet say they are unhappy.

Happiness is a state of mind you create yourself.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/13/13 08:19 PM
First off all….Thanks for the comments
But I do think that there needs to be a few clarifications made with what my quandary was about.

Bond - Yes, you have some of the past history correct as in I was able to have a really good talk with my ex sometime back in the begging of June. (some sort of closure, some sort of an attempt to crack open a wall for opportunity).
I’m sure that she now only agreed to that meeting as to grant me some sort of closure, and to extend a bit of a peace treaty for interacting with the kids in the future. I think that the combination of space and persistence of checking in now and then was working to a certain degree.
I do believe that on that road trip, and during that conversation, at some point along the way she was genuinely took a small interest in listening to what I had learned about my role as a husband, partner and friend…she especially was receptive to my heartfelt honesty and apologies. I also think that as I talked about the interesting discoveries of the natural dynamics that seem all too common in divorced couples or those couples that are even thinking about it. I was fascinated with the male/female mindset and the ways in which we each feed that divisional process. I could see more than a few times, a light bulb went on…..but alas…the following days, weeks and months showed NO signs as to wanting to ask about more.
And After the Golf outing, I assume that her attempt at offering a friendship based on the most basic of premises, that we genuinely do enjoy each other’s company, and have a great time together. And I cannot be more clear on this, “We had a great day together that day”, it’s just too bad I got a little to tipsy and pushed for a kiss….
Now, I am almost certain that her feelings and behaviors influenced her distance after that as in how she expressed guilt about going golfing when she did in fact have a BF.
Since then, there has still been a handful of texts from her that were or could be somewhat misinterpreted as flirting…and it could be that she was just falling back into how she use to communicate with me…..but there has been NOTHING since my messing up the lunch date with the boys.

L4MD – [I don't think JJ was saying he wanted closure as much as "disclosure". Putting it all on the table.]

Correct…I am not looking for any more closure. I was looking for opinions on or examples for “disclosure” on letting your partner (or former in my case) know your desires for reconciliation.
BOND – ["I was asked a while ago that if I still wanted to reconcile with my ex why didn't I just ask her or let her know my desires?
This is based I think mainly on the fact that I am in a unique situation of not sharing children with my ex."]
[It's not a unique situation. In fact you raised her D and son for most of their lives so you should have some kind of connection to her. I mean you do care for your step D and S right?]

Yes, I help raise them…and I care for them deeply…in fact I know she believes in her heart that I did a very good job as a step-dad, and that I gave them a lot of unique experiences that they will always remember. Plus she knows just how much they mean to me and how much I love and miss them.

BOND – [What have you been doing since your D? Have you not progressed in life?
That is one thing that you shouldn't be doing.
As long as she feels you will always be there, she will have no incentive to look back your way. Doesn't sound like closure to me.
Anyway, you told her that you wanted to reconcile before and haven't said or done anything to prove anything else.
What makes you think saying it again will help?
All it will do is show her that you're still waiting for her like some weird stalker.]

As to the “holding pattern” remark or progress in life..…I’m ok with being a “stander”…..and my life is moving along nicely as to continuing to improve (still a slip here and there, but moving along). I’m hoping she has already noticed some things (which I had know she was looking at until going dark). Waiting hopefully, and patiently for a 2nd chance, is all up to the individual involved, but as long as you are continuing to move forward with a solid and productive life, it shouldn’t ever take on a “stalking” aspect. I am very confident that my actions and efforts in this area will start to increase curiosity…..especially with the reinstatement of privileges for spending time with the boy

BOND – [If you tell her that you want to reconcile, she will shut the door on you immediately.
HOWEVER, if you contact her in a friendly manner to ask how your step kids are doing and then slowly lead into how she's doing, you'll be able to get in that way.
BUT be sure that if she asks you how you are doing, DO NOT tell her that you are hoping the two of you get together again.]

I can see bits and pieces here….and I am not going to make some sort of announcement or declaration that I am not giving up at getting her back…I shouldn’t have to, because I know that she knows my heart. All I need to concentrate on is me and my life as good as it can possibly be!

Thanks again everyone for anymore input….
Posted By: MrBond Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/13/13 08:41 PM
"I am not going to make some sort of announcement or declaration that I am not giving up at getting her back…I shouldn’t have to, because I know that she knows my heart. "

So why did you ask ...
""But after speaking with several Christian based organizations and professionals, they thought that I should at some point state my desire to reconcile, but to do it in a way as to not pressure for it...as in just being content to be in the moment and build on the friendship as it leads to a deeper trust in the desired change.""
"Does anyone have any input on this type of disclosure?"
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/13/13 09:33 PM
I guess…I only asked because it seems to have that attraction of the romantic notions….and that just by hearing it, she will be able to connect the words with the actions. Plus I wanted to gather input…which helps facilitate learning and lesson the anxiety of doing the wrong thing

However, I get that there are 2 different views here……and I am just wanting to increase the odds!
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/13/13 09:34 PM
I do get it...though!

The actions should be the one thing that Speaks the Loudest!

and that is what got me to this point.....
Posted By: MrBond Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/13/13 09:34 PM
Just think of it this way. The last outing you had with her, you went in for a kiss. See where that got you?
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/13/13 09:39 PM
yeah....but that was a long day of really playful interaction...I just couldnt help it...I hadnt been with her (or anyone) for the past 9 months.
But I again have to remind myself, stay the course, stay patiet...stay confident....and remember that she is watching "all" my actions!
Posted By: MrBond Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/13/13 09:45 PM
"and remember that she is watching "all" my actions!"

That's mindreading. She has a BF right? Have you done anything that would make her actually wonder what you're doing? IMHO, in your case, if you started golfing and going out with other women (just as friends) it will get her to start looking your direction.
Posted By: Live4myDay Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/21/13 05:22 AM
So...any updates? What is she really watching? You? The kids? Your interaction with the kids? I think when they become detatched they don't see a thing because they really aren't looking.

Like talking to someone on the phone while on the computer at the same time.

Be yourself...the person deep inside that they fell in love with...you know, the best you! I know this is what you're working on.

They notice when you stop noticing them.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/24/13 03:26 PM
Well here is a bit of an update.... I formulated a small little correspondence asking if we might be able to set up some sort of visit or get together with the kids now that summer is officially over.
I sent off the text last night and have yet to hear back....and I don't know how long I should wait till I text again? Or what else to follow up with?

Bond...As to the question of what makes me think she is watching?
I know her...and I know she spends a lot of time on FB these days. She had mentioned things that I did and people I was visiting when we last spoke in the summer....so I know she ca t resist taking a peek now and then, which is why I don't hide my profile to private.
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/24/13 10:32 PM
Ok... I got a reply
Wish I could say that it was more favorable.... But the ex is taking the stance that my relationship with the kids is seen as a disruption and that it would be best for everyone to cut all ties.
I asked for a little understanding as to the breakdown in communication and clarity of the ground rules.... But was denied any further review at this time.
She also feels that it would be inappropriate of her to meet in person with me over coffee to discuss things because she doesn't want her BF getting upset with her.
Mmmmmmm.... Can't wait for the comments to come in on this one.

Ps...I will say this...I will respect her wishes about her boundaries on the children.
She is their mother and its her call.....
But... I'm still going to continue to DB :-)
Posted By: MrBond Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/24/13 11:51 PM
Wow. Hate to say it, but your W's a b*tch. You helped raise these kids and now she just wants them to forget about you? Are they going to C?
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/25/13 02:36 AM
If you mean counseling a done a little bit and I've been talking with my DB coach.
Up until now I've had some really good interactions with the boy and I feel that he at least understands that we are at the mercy of both of his biological parents if we are to have any relationship Now or in the future....
If we have to wait until after he becomes an adult and continue things on his own and for himself then that's what we have to do
we just have to respect that he has two parents that love and care about him and want to see him succeed....and he knows my doors always open to him
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 09/25/13 02:41 AM
Sorry I missed that you asked if they had been going to counseling and no they haven't
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 10/05/13 02:11 PM
About the only update that I have at this point is that I did take a chance and speak with my stepson. I just wanted to let him know that I had asked to see him and wanted to make sure that he understood that I didn't just give up after our little hiatus from the summer.
I assured him again that I still love him, his sister and his mother and I would be checking back periodically to see if his mother has changed her mind on allowing us future contact.
I just felt it important that he knows that I am always going to be there for him in whatever capacity I can and that my door will always remain open.
So now it's back to work on all the projects that I have going staying focused on me and my future and the directions that my new life is taking me I will check back in a month and see if anything has changed and continue that pattern until I do see a change... Or until something shakes it up in another way
Posted By: JJAC2005 Re: Divorced-not done-But wondering ? - 10/14/13 03:43 PM
Well...I guess this leaves me at the same place I found myself almost a full year ago....holding on to hope.
I'm continuing to make my way thru the painful healing of my divorce, and the loss of a family I once had. I'm still surprised at times how much I still think of and miss my ex, and the kids, and how a simple smile of a past memory can eventually bring me to tears if I enjoy it too long.
But on a good note, I know I am wiser and stronger for everything I have gone thru and in gaining the knowledge I have now. All I can do is continue onward to a better and new beginning.

Dropping the rope....doesn't mean you give up. It just means you are not going to struggle with that battle anymore.

And since it is clear that I have no other options at this time, I resign my self to, giving my ex the room, and respect she requests, and holding on to Hope that some day I might get another chance....peace be with you all!
Thanks for your input.
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