I used to be on the db board quite a bit when I was trying to rebuild my relationship with my then separated H. DB worked for me to an extent. It lead him back, but it did not lead him to treating me much better. It changed my behavior but it did not change him.
So, after I confronted him about a PA he'd had in the past that I found out about a couple years after the fact (that had continued as an EA), he told me we were over and he wasn't in love with me, blah, blah, blah.
This time I couldn't see any reason to continue dbing. It would be humiliating. I ended up filing myself because he hadn't taken care of it as in the past when he insisted we were over, and he started threatening to control me with money and the house. I figured I needed to protect myself, so I took care of most of the divorce stuff myself. He didn't change his tune about us until he had moved across country to the East Coast and I moved to the West Coast. Then he sent me a letter a few days before our tele-conference divorce court date. He recanted everything he'd said about not loving me and said he'd never wanted to leave me, etc. But he did not ask to stop divorce preceedings. So I did nothing and the divorce was finalized almost a year ago now.
I raise our 8 yr old son by myself now, while working a lot of hours and constantly worrying about money. I have very little family or close friends near me. I'm working on meeting people, but it's slow going while I'm trying to keep it all together.
So I don't know exactly why I'm back here. Maybe just to hear from others in the same situation. I don't expect that my XH will ever say that he wants me back. Even though both my son and I harbor fantasies about him suddenly finding a back bone and asking for the three of us to be a family again.
I don't have a whole lot contact with him, but my son flies across country to see him 2x a year now. It's scary and hard for everyone, especially my son. When my son visited his dad last I got lots of texts from my XH, some very sweet ones not just about our son but about me, but as I expected, when my son came home, he stopped. I knew I was being pulled back in by him, and I knew the sting and hurt was coming when he would inevitably pull away again. It's his way. And it's my way to take the bait.
Anyway, after a year I am still hitting these vicious walls of depression and overwhelmed with thoughts of XH. Every store I go into reminds me of some time I went into the same store in a different town with him. It's only been a year and the long road to "getting over it" doesn't look like it has an end. I barely keep things together and sometimes and struck immobile by this overwhelming fear. Fear of having all this responsibility, raising my son alone, living in a house alone, working a job that requires so much self-initiative, and having so few people to turn to for help. It's so frightening it makes sleeping very hard sometimes and I'm even more scared that my son will see how scared his sole source of stability is. And there is no end in sight.
I think the biggest issue with your DBing efforts is that you did these things in an attempt to change how your ex was going to act, and expected him to be different instead of doing these things strictly because they were going to make you a better person and although you might not get the result you wanted - you would get the result you needed.
I have been divorced for 4 months now, and I didn't have much choice as my ex initiated the proceedings. She is still seeing the OM (I don't try to focus on it, it just goes on next door) and I just don't worry about it. I have noticed that he has been cheating on her with another woman when she is not around - but it really isn't my business any longer.
I'm raising my two sons and have joint custody of my daughter, and basically filling up the time I used to spend worrying over my ex and the OM with the kids.
My boys play football now, and I spend most evenings at their practices, or at the games. I don't really date, though I did go through a post-D fling thing.
The important thing is to do things to be happy about yourself. If your ex comes back around, that is fine. If not - that is fine too. You do what you have to for you and your son to be happy, and things will be alright in the end.
I live about 4 hours from my family, so I kind of know what it is like to be alone. You have to be superwoman for your son. Don't lean on him for emotional support.
Yes, I suppose you're right. I picked up DB because I wanted to keep my marriage, not solely to become a better person myself. I do a lot of things because I want to grow and learn, I'd been to counseling years before I ever heard of dbing and have been a closet self-help book junky since high school. Although I certainly did grow and learn as a result of dbing, I picked up the book because I wanted to save my marriage. At that point I really believed that I could do it all myself. But by the second separation I realized I couldn't do his part and I'd done my part to the best of my ability.
What dbing did give me was a lot of tools for parenting I'd never thought of before. So I did come away with something. And thanks for the reminder not to lean on my son for emotional support. There are lots of things we know, but still need to be reminded of.
Hey, I've been divorced for over a year now myself. We all picked up DB to try and save our M's. But the funny thing is that you end up helping yourself. I know it also helped me to realize how bad my situation was and how I deserved to be treated better.
I too have been divorced for over a year now and I still have fantacies of him pounding down our door saying it was all a mistake and that he wants to come home. My 11 yr old dd does too! She wants him to at least move closer to us, he lives 700 miles away. So, I know how you feel! I know my ex is not changed and is still so deep in MLC, but I just want my normal life back and I am sick of people telling me that I have to create my own "normal" now. Look, I was married to him for over 17 years, with him since I was 18 yrs. old, I will always think of my life with him, being married, living in our gorgeous house, going to bed each night together, talking 5 times a day, eating dinner together each night, raising our kids, etc. as my normal life and everything else is just like living in a twilight zone. I never dreamed we would ever be divorced, we had our issues, but they were nothing that wasn't fixable with therapy, DBing and such. He just went into textbook MLC and it was over!!
Hang in there! I haven't been on these boards in months and here I am! No real reason, just missing my married life so much!
Yea, it would be nice if they could just get a hobby instead of an OM/OW...lol
((((Opti))) so glad to hear from you. So sorry to hear about your worries. One thing I do know is that you are an amazing woman and not giving yourself enough credit. I know things are very scary, but I bet you're doing a great job.
So your H is on the east coast? Mine is on a boat on the lakes.
Hard to believe your DS is 8 years old, mine are 15 and 16 and both driving. I finally had H served with D papers just yesterday. What a horrible couple of years it's been, but I know that I am doing the right thing.
I sent you a friend request under my real name...
Hi Opti, I'm not sure if welcome back is appropriate but it's good to hear from you.
You got to the water and a warmer climate and writing right? so there's something good.
I'm sorry the pieces have not fallen into place to bring the inner peace you need to find. Finding the real you is still the key.
In the absence of my H I had those horrible memories of him wherever I went as I moved forward without him. Now, it's just as weird when H joins me again after dong things alone for so long.
@Optimist - Maybe you are back here because there is something inside of you that says to keep going and keep trusting. One of the biggest challenges that people face is dealing with the circumstances. Circumstances have a tendency to control our actions. We really don't know what is happening behind the scenes. Our "loved ones" appear to be having fun with no concern for us, and while that may be true, we don't know what they are feeling inside or thinking. I believe that is why Ms. Weiner-Davis encourages us to find a hobby and focus on the positives rather than be ever watching what our spouses are doing. Typically, the reason why we are in this situation didn't happen overnight. Any changes in ourselves didn't start until we were forced to look at ourselves. Even then, we have to decide whether we want to change.
Our changes can have an impact on our spouse and help to shorten the duration we are apart from each other but there is no guarantee that is the only thing that has to be done. For a spouse to walk away from a marriage, there are some serious issues happening with them. So even with our own changes that we are making in ourselves, there are changes that our wayward spouse will probably have to make in order for them to want to have a marriage restoration. Like an alcoholic, they have to admit they are an alcoholic and then decide to do something about it. I know from battling weight issues in my life how hard that can be. No matter what someone says to me about getting fit, it will take something in me to make that happen.
It is no different for our spouses. They have to see the problem in themselves, realizing running away is not only not the answer but it is adding to the problems in their lives (not to mention the harm that it causes to our children). Once they see that we aren't really the problem, they have to decide if it is worth it to make changes in themselves.
Imagine how hard it is for someone who runs away from another issue (marriage problems) to then have to deal with taking ownership of their own problems and not blame their left behind spouse? If they can get to that point, then they have to start the long road to dealing with their emotional issues. And it is unlikely they will ever contact us during that time. They can be too proud or too embarrassed to tell us. Who can blame them? I know how proud AND arrogant I can be myself.
If they are successful in dealing with their issues, then they may start looking at the possibility of a reunion with the left behind spouse. And this is now the crucial consideration.
Did we, the left behind spouse, close the door on them? We are talking about emotionally injured people in the first place that are dealing with choice of running away from their family, to have to swallow their pride in order to come back home. No one likes to admit they were wrong or handled an issue with immaturity so can you imagine what it would be like for them to admit they made a bad choice?
Adding to the challenge with having to swallow their pride and try to return home, are the situations where the door was closed and nailed shut by their hurting spouse. Yes, we feel rejected and we want them to know it out of hurt and anger but what will the result be? The possibility that they don't feel it is okay to discuss a possible restoration.
My kids know that I am safe. Throughout this whole horrible chapter in our lives, they know that no matter what, they can trust that I will be there for them. I am safe for my children. (And I did make some mistakes before, during and after my wife left).
My wife, doesn't know it is safe. I don't know that for a fact but I wouldn't be sure if I were in her shoes. She doesn't know if I would welcome her with open arms or slam the door in her face. Does she know that I love her? I think she does. But that isn't enough.
Many people would consider showing unconditional love as a sign of weakness or relegating one's self as a "doormat". Maybe they are right but when I look around and I see so many broken marriages (and torn apart families), maybe we shouldn't be listening to them or even to our own emotionally distraught selves.
Now, I don't think anyone deserves to be abused or should choose to allow themselves to be mistreated but I do believe that our measurement of what it is to be used or abused has changed a great deal. If someone is causing harm to another, and that person has no remorse or willing to change, then the best thing is to remove ourselves from the danger.
But in many cases, we aren't talking about something this severe. In many cases, we are emotionally hurt because of the lack of love and/or respect we are getting from our spouse.
In the case of unconditional love being displayed, it is something that we do crave ourselves, knowing that no matter what, we are loved. We want to know that we have that safety in our lives.
Our "prodigal" spouse is no different. They are probably so conflicted emotionally, they have no clue what they should do. In fact, they are encouraged by many people, the media and even other self help books, that are misguiding people to seek out whatever is pleasurable, to continue on the path of separation, divorce and seeking whatever makes them happy. Chances are what they feel one day about their situation is different the next day. When they are alone, they may be completely unsure what they should do.
The only thing we, as left behind spouses, can do, is to provide stability for ourselves, our children and a "lighthouse" for our families. Is this going to be easy, i.e. to be a place of safety for our children and spouse? Absolutely not. This is why the rate of divorce is way above 50% now and that many of the children today are seeing high rates of suicide, sexual experimentation, emotional distress, etc.
The sad thing is that we don't have the support of others like we should. Most people consider people who DB as foolish. The solution they have is to start dating immediately. I can only speak for myself (and actually for several friends of mine who have gone through this in the past) that is not a wise idea. I have a number of friends that have gotten remarried and regretted it several years later only to repeat the whole separation and divorce model. Several "honest" friends have suggested to me that I not date and wait until I can be healed from what has happened. Some have even added that they would recommend that I not get remarried, basing on their experience.
Praying for you!
NNP, WCW!
It has been a while hasn't it? It's hard for me to keep up with boards like this now because everytime I'm at any computer I have deadlines calling to me. I think I also just needed a break from the boards. In order to walk away from XH I needed steely resolve. He did his usual cold declarations that it was all over and for the first time went so far as to tell me there was always something missing (of course, I knew that...he was missing). In no uncertain terms he let me know this time was it. So I turned around and walked away because my own life was somewhere else. And he has done things since to recant, telling me he was wrong to say he didn't love me, that he missed me, etc. But I had already picked up and moved and I knew if I told him I'd come rushing back, he'd recant again. It's the way of our relationship, and it continues to be even though we have very little communication.
I only admit on these boards and to a couple of my closest friends that my feelings for him have not changed. I love him, I'm attached to him, I'm in love with him. There are wonderful, upstanding things about him. Then, he becomes another person. I'm sure the years of alcohol and running away from himself have a lot to do with that. But I don't want to be seen as one of THOSE women. And I don't want to turn into my mother who never moved on from her last marriage and may be alone for the rest of her life, still crying herself to sleep a time or two a week.
And yet, I still haven't moved on and am not sure how to do it. And I know a part of me really doesn't want to. For example:
My XH is now in training at a unit where we were stationed together. The only part of our marriage where we lived together full-time in fact. And where our son was born. He sent me a text before he went telling me to call him on his cell if I needed anything and that things at our old stomping grounds hadn't changed much. I don't know why he felt the need to send that text. But I didn't reply. Last night he sent another text saying the bartender on base remembers me. I don't know why he would send that text either. I haven't responded.
I kind of want to ask him about his training, because I was a part of the course years ago and want to know if they're doing things the same way. I know that it would probably start a texting conversation. I don't know if I want that.
If I was actively DBing I would text him back (the going dark thing never worked with him). But that keeps me hooked.
On the other hand, can I be a big enough person to start a friendship with him and yet harbor no expectations? I don't know. My gut tells me it's too soon. Any friendship I start up with him is going to just lift my hopes of a reunion no matter how I try to justify it to myself.
Should I just tell him I'm not ready to be friends because I'm still in love with him and it wouldn't help me move on with my life? And ask him to please not send me messages reminiscing about our past together?
Part of me thinks that would be smart. Because I know he would comply. Part of me just doesn't want him to stop sending me messages.
Obviously he is thinking about me, and I like that. But it does put me back on the roller coaster. An alcoholic shouldn't keep booze in the cupboard. Maybe I shouldn't allow XH to keep sending these messages.
**on a positive side note, an hour after XH sent that text and I was awake in bed, crying a little, I got another set of photos on my phone from a bunch of guys I got to know on a business trip last summer (a very respectable group of guys) who are stuck on a boat for a month at a time. I told myself to stop feeling sorry for myself because at that very moment a whole bunch of men were thinking about me, even if they were all in other states. This little bruised ego could use as much of that as it can get:)
There is definitely an element of post-traumatic stress a lot of us go through, I think.
My situation is very different from yours, as my H had an affair 8 years ago, I DB'd and we successfully reconciled, had several more great years together before he fell down the midlife crisis rabbit hole. Somehow, though, for me - once he actually moved out, I was very quickly DONE. Seeing him put our college-age kids through that killed any last little bit of respect I had for him.
And since I WAS done - and didn't have the complication of little kids at home - I was able to move on into a very healing rebound relationship. I was ready for it, and this man admired me for the very things my ex used to criticize, made me feel sexy and attractive, kept me from being lonely just when I needed it most. We're not together now, but we're still very good friends, and I know this really helped me in the process.
Now I look at my ex, and although I still have good memories of the good years of our relationship, he's not the kind of guy I would want to go out with now.
I guess my point for you is this: be careful of confusing loneliness and anxiety and nostalgia for who he used to me, with a desire to be with who he is NOW. You DON'T want him back unless he does the WORK necessary to fix all his problems.
I think on one hand a rebound relationship would be a good thing for me. A moving on kind of thing. On the other hand, it isn't as easy a thing with a little kid at home. I have struck up a long distance flirtation. It feels risk-free and a good way to open up a little.
You're right. I don't want to be with someone who's way of dealing with their fear is to lash out at the person they love. Someone who is so afraid of being hurt that they make sure to hurt everyone else first.
I don't know that there's a huge amount of difference between who my XH was THEN and who he is NOW. I was just discussing that with another divorced friend the other day. She said that in retrospect she can see all these red flags about the kind of person her XH was, but she just didn't see them before. However, in my case, I think I saw all those red flags, but had so little relationship experience that I didn't realize they could be a problem. I changed when our son came along, stepped up to the plate because I had to. My XH, while he loves our son, wasn't about to change his behavior for anyone.
I think the divorce and suddenly only getting to see his son a couple times a year has had a big impact. Of course, he chose that impact, while my son didn't. I have no idea if he's done any of the work he needs to do for himself. I know he's told me he's quit smoking, but that's just one of his addictions. He told me he regrets scoffing at the idea of marriage counseling. But of course he told me that only after we'd both moved so far away from each other it was a moot point. I can imagine him taking an honest look at himself and getting some help. But I would be embarrassed to admit (anywhere other than here) that I might be holding out for that day, or rather for the years of work that come after that day.
I'm thinking that it is getting time to ask XH to stop sending the personal notes. I just got one a moment ago about how the area where we were stationed together is really beautiful (he's back there for training) and that he didn't notice it before. And that now he notices what a great place it would have been to live.
Of course, when we were there he had nothing good to say about it, even though that's where my family is and where I wanted to live. So once again, I find myself unproductively trying to figure out why he would say that to me at this point. What is he getting at?
Reality check Opti, you walked away and went through all that legal stuff, just to be back here trying to read his mind and being pulled around by his little hints? If I let myself be effected by these little notes this way, perhaps it is time to ask him to stop sending them.
Hi, I totally hear your pain. I have D for 4 months now and my XH had an affair and is now planning on marrying her next year. I also want my family and wish he would just change his mind. Everytime he shows me a bit of humanity I start to slip back, however I have to stay strong and draw a line under this all. I need to focus on the positive, try not to be bitter and start to make choices for myself and my sons. I am in control of my destiny, not him.
Not sure if that helps.
Opti- I too admit stuff on here that I don't to anyone else. I am still in love with my ex also, as I have posted on my thread. Yesterday, if still married we would have celebrated our 19 yr. anniversary. I was a mess all day for many reasons. During the day, my XH messaged me on the IM and we chatted about kid stuff and work stuff, then at the end I put "19 years ago today I married the most amazing man and I miss him so very much. We all miss you and love you! I know you won't respond and that is fine, I understand, just know that my love for you is unconditional and as you look back you have to realize that I never, ever turned my back on you and support you 100%!!
Have a great day and let me know what you find out or if you get the note!!" (a doctor's note for our D17 that lives with him). He responded, just said he would and thanked me. So, after work I went out with a bunch of friends and had a blast, I got home and at 11 pm got a text from him that simply said "Happy Anniversary"...I lost it and dropped to my knees sobbing.
So...I know exactly what you mean by not wanting to get the texts but wanting to get them all at the same time. It would be more healthy for you not to get them and not spend the time thinking about what they mean, I am right there with you. I need to stop too, but on the off chance that this is working and all my efforts and DBing, GAL... all of it, is finally helping him see that my love for him is real and unconditional..I just can't stop. I can see him going in and out of the MLC tunnel and I just keep, keeping on with the same stuff of working on myself and improving me and supporting him when he initiates it... and hope that one day he will come out completely. I am not putting myself on hold though either, I have dated, I have a life with friends and family. I pray to God each and everyday for him to help me heal and handle things with my XH the exact way I am suppose to with the Lord's guidance.
Hang in there Opti!! I love everything "missmyfriend" said too, so right on and exactly what I believe too. Thanks everyone on these boards, I think it is so great to be able to come here and vent to people who really understand.
A
Hi Opti, it's Nicole! I can't believe your son is 8 already! I've thought about you guys lately and wondered how you were doing.
Hi Nicole! Yeah, it's been a while. I've been checking in now and again, but not on here like I used to be. How are you?
I've received a string of personal notes from my XH, which he's tagged onto emails we have been exchanging about issues our son is having at school. I haven't responded to any of them (the personal notes, not the stuff about our son). He's reminisced about the old places we lived, the people we used to know, etc. And last night, after I sent him a set of photos I took a couple years ago, he said they make him think about the good times and wished it could be that way now.
I'm still not responding. Don't know if he wants me to or not. When we were separated I was pulled back in by this sort of thing. He hinted at it, I took action. I don't know if he wants me to take some sort of action or if he really just wants to reminisce and that's it.
Honestly, I am pulled back in already. My feelings for him have never changed. But I had to start thinking with my head instead of blindly following my feelings around. I'd like to tell him that all he has to do is tell me he wants to get back together, show me that he's getting help for his emotional problems, and find a way to move across the country to where our son and I live now, and ba-da-bing, it can all be his again. Somehow, that doesn't seem quite right, or realistic, or likely.
I did allow myself to pray for a reconciliation and renewed marriage vows between he and I last night. I've been fighting with myself about that. If I pray for it/manifest it is that just holding on when I should be letting go and moving on. Or is there no harm in it, since I maybe I can't force my feelings to change and I'll move on in my own time anyway?
okay here's a question for you
say you open the door and he walks thru... what has changed? Has he taken any steps to remedy his problems? or will things be just like they were?
Only you can answer that Opti. I am behind you rooting for you either way.
Oh, I have no clue. But, it doesn't matter too much, because there are no actions to take... finally.
I told him the school wants me to get professional counseling for our son, and my XH is suddenly supportive of it. When we were together he was totally against any kind of counseling for us, or any kind of intervention at school for our son. It wasn't until the divorce was nearly finalized and we both had moved across the country, that XH said he wished he hadn't scoffed at counseling.
So now I think the reality of losing his family has hit him and he's suddenly reconsidering his attitudes. He's asking for old photos of our trips and talking about shared memories and being cooperative about getting help for our son. But, I have no clue if he's taking steps to deal with his problems. And I guess I don't know what that would look like for him beyond counseling, an AA program and maybe a doctor for his insomnia.
I don't think I have to answer any questions right now, or any time soon. I'm not about to uproot my son again, even if XH said he wanted to get back together. He'd have to come to us. And that won't be an option for him for a few years. Maybe by then I'll have moved on. Certainly he'll have had opportunities to do the same.
If XH said he wanted to move here to be closer to his son and approached me about trying again, I'd know something major had changed because that would be totally out of character for him. But if he decided to take that kind of initiative and risk for what he wanted, and I didn't have someone else, that would be great. So whatever happens, the problem solves itself. And for now, I guess I'll just enjoy knowing that, in fact, letting me go is cause for regret.
Well, I've started an email dialogue with my xh about a lot of things we never talked about while we were married. It's been back and forth a few times now with him saying he wants to continue the discussion and learn more about me and answer all my questions. His last email, however, asked why I was now "spilling my guts" with all these feelings I had that I kept to myself. It's a very, very, very good question. I tried to answer it, more for myself than for him. But I don't know if I did a very good job.
When I walked away and filed I was 100% sure it was the right thing to do and I'd exhausted all other avenues. I thought I would always atleast have that. Now I'm feeling that slip away. If I'd just come out with all these feelings I had a couple years earlier...would I still be divorced today??? Aaarrghgh. I did my best, right? I just wasn't able to open up at that time, maybe. He was not easy to talk to, he walked away, he was hiding his own heavy secrets.
IMO your R with your H works better based on the distance between you physically. The words work great to bring you together but when you are physically trying to live in the same space the R falls apart in a short time.
I wish all the best for you.
Are you enjoying your current location? it's due to start getting cold here again....frozen hoses....ugh.
Opti, I think what you are going through is completely normal and expected concerning your situation. I think most of us would find there are more similarities than differences (only the name have been changed to protect the...).
I would say that your last post is exactly why several divorce programs encourage people to wait for a period of time before dating again. We have gone through so many emotional upheavals and the last thing we really need is to be in a relationship even though it can make us "feel" cared about. Unfortunately, it usually leads to more heartache and sorrow.
I do agree with Michele on this topic, encouraging people to find other healthy activities such as a new hobby or other outlet.
Hugs to you, (((Opti))) how ya doing?
Hey NNP!
How am I doing? Well I'm not checking these boards very often, obviously!
Life is so tough, trying to hold down a job, take care of myself, and take care of my son and all his special needs at school. I keep hoping that one day things will not be so stressful.
Anyway... Conversation with XH continue. He's super nostalgic about us. I let myself be pulled back in. Maybe I'm deluded (yet again) but I feel like it's OK for now. I keep saying it's my goal to go out on a date. Just a simple date, to keep my perspective. But it hasn't happened yet. Have my eye on one prospect, but haven't made any moves.
XH is working on retirement plans. It would be nice if he moved out to where I am with our son and could be a present father. But we'll see. He's still several months out from where any serious decisions will have to be made. I'm actually contemplating a trip for my son and I to go see him on the other coast. I have a airline pass for a companion traveler to use, so we'd both have to go... not sure if it'll happen or not.
In any case, I'm starting to beat myself up less for feelings I have for XH and decisions I've made and will make. What matters most is how it impacts my son (which is a big consideration for this trip). Whether I end up back with my XH one day or not doesn't mean having feelings for him right now is wrong or even that acting on them is wrong. Maybe it's possible to be friends with him despite having romantic feelings for him. I don't know...when I'm introduced to his girlfriend my tune may change in a big way. But hopefully, I'd eventually come back around to wanting a friendship.
How are you doing?
My STBX says that he wants to remain friends. Perhaps keeping that door open even after D could lead to a reconnection. I believe you have to haev that before you can have a reconcilation.
Perhaps I'm fooling myslef too. I want what some of you want and that's to have my married life back. I know it will be better this time around.