Okay, I've probably screwed up more than most people. Last time I posted, people were helpful, but not in the ways I needed them to be. I returned to the crying, begging, pleading person I was in the beginning.
A short recap, I've been divorced since January, just got the final papers. Ex probably hates me at this point, as I've ruined everything over and over again. We have one son together (5), we were married for 4 years, and we're both very young: 25 and 26. My friends are trying to be supportive, but I'm never very clear about what I want and my anger from the relationship has definitely made them question my decisions (rebound relationships and switching to DBing, and back). Ugh, I am/was a mess!
Okay, fast forward to now: I just decided that I'm going to make one last shot at this before throwing in the towel. I'm shaky on my own two feet, so I could use some encouragement. I've backslid all the way back to the beginning, so I'll be journaling here for anyone who possibly wants to help me along my way.
Some positive signs from today's conversation:
*He was finally honest about the demise of our relationship and his conflicting feelings for another woman.
*He is happy that our relationship is heading in a friendly direction "for the sake of our son". (Not for long, read my goals next)
That's pretty much it that I can remember for now. After our conversation today, and realizing I was begging for him to come back yet again (Doh!), I knew I needed to start over and get a grip. I've been too sad and too depressed for too long. And while I was making a lot of progress, I was also backsliding pretty hard.
So, for the next several weeks, I am doing no contact. I will not speak to him and I did the hardest thing I can think of to do - I put his number on my blocked list on my cell phone. He can still call, but it will go straight to voicemail, and I will only see that he has called. I will not answer the phone for at least two weeks, though I know several sources recommend a month or longer for NC. If he has a question or concern about Travis I will wait and call him back and deal directly with that issue rather than having any of our friendly chats we've been having lately. He doesn't miss me (yet), and I have to give him time to have something to miss.
This is hardest because we exchange our son every Tuesday and Wednesday night in addition to every other weekend. So I've enlisted the help of some close friends to keep busy and I'm trying to enlist the help of others in the same situation here for some encouragement. I feel strong today, but we all know how quickly that can drop.
I will allow him to initiate any contact. That's it for now, the only goal I have to achieve. It's all about baby steps. And resisting the urge to call or text is going to be hard for me, so wish me luck!
I miss him terribly, and firmly believe that every relationship is just a repeat of every other relationship you have, the ups are simply different scenarios as well as the downs. But nothing beats having your family together and happy. And that's my ultimate goal, to restore my family.
Thanks for reading, your good thoughts, and your prayers!
It's only been about an hour and I'm already struggling. Kind of makes me wish it was this hard on his end. Maybe it is. It's not my right to know that.
So I'm supposed to recieve alimony and haven't yet. He thought it was supposed to be automatically removed from his check and sent to me. How do I check that out? Can I call the court and ask? And if not, I suppose my only option is to hire a lawyer to collect or ask him for it directly - which would be against the whole NC thing I'm trying to do?
I'm not money hungry... I was just counting on that for school - which is what he agreed to pay it to me for in the first place. Or maybe I am money hungry, but I don't want to be rude about it.
((Cautious))
Thanks for visiting my thread. Left a question there for you.
I want you to know that I am doing the same thing with my X. Being grey. I am kind and curteous to her but I will not call her unless she calls me first.
It is usually hard for me to see her or even talk to her because all those emotions come back. Especially when we are face to face. I have to show a PMA up front while holding back the urge to hold her and tell her how I feel and that I miss her.
To protect myself and to not put pressure on her I try to emotionally detach from her. Very hard to do but Im getting better. I do this by convincing myself that she is never coming back (which is most likely the case) and that we could both be happy in time by ourselves.
She usually only calls when she needs something but she does offer me dinner or lunch so I chalk it up to doing a friend a favor. And this way she can see my 180s.
Not familiar with alimony but his workplace would need something to start the deductions so they and your H should know. If he doesnt know then I hate to say it but it sounds like he didnt do what he was supposed to do or he is playing dumb. Hope Im wrong.
Forgive me if I am out of line with that.
Hmmm, the way I see going dark/going grey/NC, it's an effort to make them miss you and let them know you're not going to just be there for the taking. By agreeing to these lunches and dinners, it seems like you're allowing her to be connected with you for as long as she likes, just to drop you when you become inconvienient. Are you setting a time limit? It's best to not stay for longer than 1/2 an hour or so and to line something up directly after so you're more inclined to leave. Or simply leave when you're having a great time (leave them wanting more). I know I can say all this stuff, but I've failed repeatedly at all of this in the past as well. Pretty much everything here is easier said than done and part of the reason I've failed so many times is because I couldn't seriously commit myself to the hard work involved.
I really don't have any advice for calming emotions. I know I've certainly let my emotions get the best of me in face-to-face interactions. So I'm finding things to reward myself with when I'm doing well, and trying to find support and encouragement from friends when I fail.
Today's Goals:
1. Do not call X. (Also, no texting and ignore unimportant X calls) Reward: Evening with good friends
2. Organize paperwork that seems to be EATING my house! Reward: TBD
3. Practice guitar for one hour. Being able to complete lessons and play like a pro is it's own reward.
Status report to be posted later this evening.
Cautious- thanks for stopping by my thread as well.
Good for you for the goals- lookng forward to you update later.
I agree that NC is SOO difficult- I can con myself into thinking of a dozen reasons to contact W- but I post here, and remember I literally have nothing to say to her b/c I've already said it.
Its the worst- she used to text me "call me" and I'd do it immediately- heck I wanted to talk to her anyway, but nmow that I look at it, it's like I was a dog and that was a cool trick she could get me to do.
Did you at least get a doggie biscuit?
Sorry, I'm a bit snarky today. The only way for me to get through a whole 24 hours of NC is to keep in mind what I DON'T want for my future, and, right now, that is being controlled by my WAS.
Going dark is not easy but you got nothing to lose. It will get better with time and remember to breathe. If you are GALing then going dark/dim is much easier cause you will be busy. Hang in there!!
Sadly no biscuit, just another interaction where I was needy and submissive- UGH!!
Try not to do that anymore these days. The worst part is I do Want to talk to W mostly anytime I can- BUT I have touched the hotstove enough now to realize- she is not the W I knew and loved- so I fight to avoid it.
ppenton-
It looks like our sitches are on the same timeline- where's your thread, I'd like to read up on your sitch
Did you at least get a doggie biscuit?
Sorry, I'm a bit snarky today. The only way for me to get through a whole 24 hours of NC is to keep in mind what I DON'T want for my future, and, right now, that is being controlled by my WAS.
Ouch never thought about it until now but you are right. I am being treated like a dog also.
But yes I am getting the doggie biscuit (lunch & dinner etc).
At least we only do this once every two weeks or so. But you guys made me realize I am being way too available too her.
Its a good thing she is not offering sex otherwise I would basically be her gimp. Damn, I really need to GAL.
I seem to be way too needy and available and this goes for all women in my life. Nice guys always finish last.
Well, my best intentions failed. I ended up texting X last night about S5. It quickly became an argument, in which I was really upset, so I told him I was no longer speaking with him. I didn't specify for how long, so it wasn't even the best way to end things. Therefore, no night out with friends. Didn't end up organizing all this paperwork or playing my guitar either. Pretty much afterward, S5 and I ended up sleeping straight through until morning. I don't feel much better today.
I feel pretty weak, and, though he is still blocked from the phone, I'd be tempted to call him back today.
You gotta be strong- it's like anything else we might be addicted to or "habituated to"
go a day, then a day- jeep occupied, and it gets easier...
Hang in there
Today's goals:
1. Have to talk to ex about S5 if he calls, so my goal is to hang up during any arguments.
2. Organize paperwork, or at least START. Seriously, guys, there's a paper monster on both MINE and my S5's desks.
3. Pedicure. Okay, sure that's sort of a reward, but if I put it on the list, maybe I'll actually do it.
Okay, my report is somewhat positive, so I'm feeling good - but anxious. The talking hasn't really happened yet.
Here's what DID happen:
Went to drop off S5 at X's house. Saw a suspcious car leaving - LOST IT. Now, many of you would see that as a backslide, and, in a way it was. I asked "Who was that? Who just left?"
X calmed me down and said he had no idea. I admitted I will never feel comfortable as long as OW is in his life (long story to this, OW was using and manipulating X and he was falling for it, I sort of told him that over the weekend during our blowup). He says "Okay, I'll delete OW from my phone right now. I don't need anything to do with her." I said "Been there, heard that." He validated. A hug was exchanged and then I revealed the info I have about OW (close social circles) and who she is cheating on her husband with - along with the cheatee's extensive list of alleged STD's.
He thanked me for not pressuring him to leave OW in the dust and allowing him to make his own decision. OW - I hate to be wrong, but - is GONE!
Well, one is anyway. I know he's got other interests, which is why I have to keep being grey. Anxious about tonight's conversation, especially since I have guitar lessons on Tuesdays...
wish me luck guys, but at least that ONE hurdle has been defeated, if only for now. And, you know, even if I ultimately decide not to be with him, I can rest easy knowing that won't be the future step-mom to my son and will never influence him in any way.
Hugs all around!
Convo never happened. I'm not going to ask him for it either. He doesn't get input anymore, he's put me off long enough. That sounds kind of bitter. I'm not bitter, I don't think.
He's trying to break my grey. I have to be better at avoiding that. He's my best friend, it's hard not to tell him everything I think. I refuse to let him break down my plan, though. That's how I ended up here in the first place, not following the steps because "oh, things are getting better, etc." He's not showing all his cards, so I'm not showing all mine either.
He made mention to me that he will be unavailable by phone at work on Thursday. The Negative Nancy in me believes that he's taking the day off Thursday rather than the "work class" he claims he's taking at that time. But his lies are his lies, who cares? Goal number two is not checking his phone records (to which I still have the password). Let's pretend he's at face value here. After all, he went through all the trouble to explain to me that he's only spending time with his boys and no one else (when I know that he's been initiating contact with a female friend from high school, but we'll keep that tucked away until it actually matters). I was the ultimate snoop before, and don't really intend to change that - I don't like the wool pulled over my eyes. But I need to develop some trust with X if I don't want a repeat of our last R.
So, long term goals are to keep being grey (no info about me, STOP ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT HIM!) for 3 1/2 more weeks. I need that clean slate, he needs to worry about ME. I'm not ready to be asking the questions about his life, I haven't got him flustered enough yet. But trust me, I've got him flustered. That's long term goal #2- Start asking interested questions, keep track of what's going on with him. Stay silent unless asked about what's going on with me. #3 - NO ML. Ugh.
Tomorrow's goals:
1. No phone contact (voice or text). Let him come to me.
1 1/2. End convos at S5 exchange quickly and escape.
2. PRACTICE YOUR GUITAR. I'm learning a song that will melt ANY man's heart. Unless he has none. Kinda hoping to play it for X someday, but realistic enough to think that it may be just playing it for S5.
3. Pedicure. I exchanged that one for "buy St. Paddy's Day wig" today, apparently. I look awesome in green.
Yesterday didn't go EXACTLY as planned. I managed to escape, but politely ending the conversations? Ugh, I was too exhausted.
Did not call/text. Ignored his call, which he claimed was S5 calling. S5 knows how to leave a voicemail.
Today's goals
1. No phone contact (voice or text). Let him come to me.
2. Have a good time with friends from school.
3. Practice guitar or finally get to that pedicure.
At least the goals I'm screwing up on are about selfish things, rather than DBing goals. Gonna be really busy today, which is good, but I also am dreading having so much to do - I hate being overbooked.
Additional goal for this entire NC period: no more hugs. Those make him feel so much better, like I'm just okay with the way things are, so he can't have them anymore.
keep posting those goals...good job on not getting too "outta hand" seeing the suspicious car
Something I found that works, that surprises me really: his need for approval is overriding everything else, so I've been very vocal about my disappointment with his actions re: me and our son. Not in a rude way, just a simple "I'm disappointed you would act in that way."
My detatching is getting very hateful. And there's a lot of anger brewing that I need to set aside for now until he's ready to talk about the R. So I'm going to vent a bit tonight.
Today went fairly well. Goal number 3 was half accomplished: I gave myself a manicure. At an unusual time, 9:30 this morning. You see, I had a field trip with class and our tradition is to go to the trip then meet up at the bar to discuss and let loose. The downside is we usually have school the next day, as is the case today.
Didn't call or text Ex, though the anger building up inside and the isolation here at home is making me want to, if just to scream "you're a great big jerk for x, y, and z" to him. No guitar today, I'm exausted.
Goal 2 definitely went well. Had some girl time with schoolmate M on the drive to the field trip. Aired some grievances about Ex, listened to her grievances about schoolmate P, who is completely smitten by her enough to be used as a rebound for M's former boyfriend. Gave some advice (loving that!). Field trip was just okay. Decided it's not a place I'd like to work, but definitely interesting, none the less. (I should mention here that my future goal is to be an instructor at my current school, and that I invest myself into my schoolmates successes) Made sure everyone had a good question to ask to get their face time in with the "manager" of the company. Then we hit the bar. Some of my schoolmates were already there (we divided our field trip up), and already near the floor.
Had some juvenile fun with Schoolmate S (most of my schoolmates ages are 18-24, so it comes with the territory what I'm about to share) by borrowing 75 cents to go to the bathroom to buy a Pee-Wee brand barrier contraceptive. I'll pause while you all let that sink in
At some point it was opened and passed around - we had a lot of laughs. I had the BEST burger I've had in a long time, then it was time for some pool. I won the first one for our team, and subsequently lost the second for our team. I quit somewhere in the third and called it a night (er, afternoon). We're a very close group - going to make it excellent for networking purposes after we all graduate. And, of course, they all call me "Mom" because I always talk them out of things I think might be disadvantages in the long run.
Counseled a little in there, which made it a little more exhausting. Sometimes I just care too much and haven't really figured out my limit on empathy just yet.
Spent some quality time with S5 after his school let out. Had a talk about responsibility before leisure. Didn't go so well. Will try again later.
He's playing the wii now and getting tired. All in all, a pretty good day, soon as I can get the Ex's recent flippant attitude out of my mind.
Just wish he'd make more of an effort with his son when it's NOT his day with him - such as when he's so dehydrated I had to take him to the hospital after having the flu. That one is really burning my butt right now, especially since S5 is showing flu-like symptoms again this evening.
Goals for tomorrow:
1. Have to see Ex at exchange, it's his weekend. So polite, short conversations (POLITE, POLITE, POLITE!!). Refuse invitations to spend "family" time together over the weekend - legit excuse: Too busy. Not for his info: work and playing my guitar will barely take up 15% of my weekend, but it still has to be done.
2. Call S5 at 8 Fri and Sat nights to discuss his day before he goes to bed. Avoid ANY contact other than phone transfer requests with the Ex.
3. Find some other things to do this weekend before S5 returns Sunday.
Tonight in all my fuming and anger, a little inspiration: I'm doing 180's without even knowing I'm doing them. High five, Cautious! When it's unconcious at least I know I'm TRULY doing them for me and not for him.
thats awesome... you inspire me
Thanks meghunny, and thanks for stooping down to my level down here to leave some support on my thread!
You know what's hillarious? Ex is probably horribly confused by my behavior right now. Here's somewhat of how I imagine his internal dialogue: "I got rid of OW, so why is she being so distant NOW? Maybe her worst fear really WAS having S5 around OW." Hey, it's true, at least. I can handle him dating. Not very well, mind you, but I can handle it. And it's almost sick to admit it, but I know he's not over me completely and that will ruin that relationship and just bring him closer to me. I've said for a long time to my BFF that he NEEDS to date, to figure out how hard it is to have a R with someone else, and realize the least common denominator in hard R's is HIM, not me. That would set our reconcilliation back by some years, but I've got nothing but time.
I refuse to put my son in that position of "Who do I call Mommy and Daddy?" at this point in his life. He's 5 and suffers from anxiety issues, no need to put more pressure on him. Therefore, I will not be dating (anyone but my Ex) until he's much older. Besides, then I have more money to spend on ME!
Keep being confused by me, ExCautious. It's good for you.
Thats a great attitude- in the meantime be the best mom you can be!
Okay, so a small recap of today and then bed. I am just too tired tonight to set goals or anything else.
School stuff, awkward after school gathering. No fun. Took S5 to Ex's for the weekend. Ex asked to step inside the car for a minute to get out of the rain. Tried initiating conversation, I resisted.
Possible backslide?: Ex asked why I seemed angry (I wasn't trying to seem angry, but an ambush is going to make me anxious). Asked if I was angry with him, I responded "I am beyond angry with you" He responded "Okay."
Just okay. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't even know whether to chalk that up as moving forward or moving back. The scoreboard is totally confused right now. I know I shouldn't be keeping score or whatnot, but I need to gauge my progress somehow.
So I just let it drop, promised to call S5 at 8 and left. Yay, way to go? I'm still not sure.
BFF's birthday was today, so we went out to dinner then to the casino. Called S5 as promised, Ex avoided all conversation with me. This bothered me in a way, but I need to let it go too. Played penny slots for a couple hours and decided to leave. Now here I am, lost and confused about Ex. Am I getting under that skin or did I mess up again?
Time for sleep, set more goals tomorrow.
Stealing advice I read on another board.
You see, my Ex is currently texting me about a haircut for my son. Refuses to call. I told him last night I didn't want to talk to him, so he's texting the crap out of me.
So I'm refusing to answer. Whatever he needs to say or ask can wait until he's willing to ask me personally - he has my number.
Besides I don't know if I can control my feelings over his crap today. Had a dream last night he took my son to a party where he was doing a wide variety of drugs in front of my son. All of my dreams tend to have some basis in reality, so I'm waiting to see exactly what this is representing (when I dreamed Ex was telling me he was leaving me for another woman he was starting to see OW, when I dreamed my friend R's girlfriend came to live with me for a few days because they had broken up - well, three months later that girlfriend just sent me a text last night asking me to tell all the girls at school to get rid of his number). I'm really anxious, so please save your opinions about dreamology... everyone has something they believe in that's a little wacky.
My PMA is down today, I'm just going to hang out at home, then try to stay out of the way at work.
Here's a question for you guys (and sorry for talking so much here, I just need all the support I can get): Should I unblock my Ex's number?
I'll explain as best I can: On my phone I have the opportunity to block numbers. When I do, the phone does NOT ring when the blocked number calls, simply goes straight to vm. Later, when I pick up the phone and look, it will state "Missed call from [blocked number]". I decided to block Ex's number because I did not feel strong enough not to pick up the phone when he called. But I don't want to miss a call from my son who would call from his number also over the course of this weekend. Then with ex asking via text message about son, I wonder if I should pick up when he calls? Am I strong enough for that yet? For now, I'm ignoring ex's call, but what does it matter if he cuts S5's hair or not? Do I really need to be consulted on that?
Thoughts, advice, support?
A little journaling:
Torture.
He called about an hour ago. Good thing I took him off reject, I've been checking my phone every few minutes. The only way to stay focused is to be a little mean and evil, so I am apologizing in advance for this: I'm imagining that he's been checking his phone every few minutes for any sign that I've called all day today too. Internal dialogue: What's up with this? She can't even answer a simple text message? I'll send another. No response, huh? What could she possibly be doing? I'll try calling. Voicemail. I wasn't ready for this, I won't leave a message. No return call. (anger sets in) SHE COULD AT LEAST CALL ME AND TELL ME IF I SHOULD CUT S5'S HAIR!
My response: Really, ExCautious? You really neeed me to tell you to cut your own son's hair? Is it going to make a huge difference in the grand scheme of things? I mean, as long as you're not hacking it with a chainsaw yourself, what does it matter? He needs a haircut. Be a man... no scratch that, be a FATHER and do it. End of story.
That was cathargic. And better than having that conversation in real life.
So, what I've learned from this is that I have silver plattered everything, and now he's freaking out because I'm refusing to continue. I always kept him informed of what was going on at S5's school when I spent $20 making copies of all the calendars, routines, etc. the school sent home in the first place. I never made him even look this stuff up, just reminded him constantly. Now I have to let him fail on his own. Boy is that hard! I always invited him to spend family time with S5 and I, and allowed him to be affectionate with me for that duration, just to kick me back to the curb once he was "full". Now he's going to truly understand lonliness. Sure, it's a little vengeful - I want him to pay for the insults he laid onto me a week ago, the forclosure he put on MY record, the car he got reposessed, the material items (that, mind you, I miss but am doing fine without) that he left in the foreclosed property and I will never see again (wedding dress included). I want him to come to me in a place of remorse, beg for me back the same as I did, just so I can say "No." the same way he did, with the same cold look. Okay, maybe not that far. But I will take my sweet time when/if he comes crawling back. It's not going to be easy anymore, not for ExCautious.
The hardest part, I think, is that I REALLY want to see him, feel his hugs, etc. And before I was willing to sacrifice myself in order to have part of him every time he asked me to go out somewhere with him. I never said no. Now, I have to say no. At least the first time, I absolutely HAVE to. The second time, I get to choose if I want to join in the activity or not. I'm totally looking forward to the second request!
Wish me luck!
Oh crud. Help!
What do I do when I call S5 later and ExCautious wants to know why I didn't answer his ? today? Do I tell him I thought he could handle the question himself or do I just say that I was busy? Do I lie and say I never saw the messages or got the call?
Here's what I'm considering: Listen to him ask "Why didn't you return my call?" and respond "Well, what did you decide?" and avoid the question altogether. But that seems passive agressive.
I think that's a personal decision you would have to make based on your own level of self control.
I have read many times on this board that if your not sure about what to do then do not do anything at all until your ready. That way you makes less mistakes out of angst. Sleep on it if you have to.
My understanding is that you are doing exactly what I am doing with my X. Gone grey. If so I would not block the number but I am strong enough to at least act like I am detached. So that would be your judgement call.
Oddly enough I have not heard from or seen my XW for almost a month and she calls me out of the blue today for something she really needed to call our (grown) Son about. Most likely she simply wanted me to help her with a problem since our Son is hard to get ahold of. She can figure this one out herself. I am no longer her husband by her choice.
Your sitch is different though since you have a young child. I personally would make my child priority regardless and not block calls at all. That's just me.
As to what your H is thinking...who knows. But it sounds like he is using your child as a reason to contact you. Wouldn't that be a good thing? Sorry if im off base. Havent been to your thread in a while. I guess I have to ask again, what is your goal in going grey?
Mine are pretty simple.
1)Help me detach from her and lesson the impact of the pain of divorce on me.
2)Show her I can live without her but still care for her.
3)Leave an open door for her but let her understand that I will not put my life on hold for her and that this open door is not permament, nor eclusive only to her.
4)Show her I have grown, improved, matured and learned from my mistakes. Not for her but for me. But she and others can benefit from those changes if they so choose.
It's her decision to make or to ignore. Either way my life will go on for the better. And I think this should apply to your H as well.
I agree with everything you said, g450, just see it slightly different because of my own obsessive, needy, and generally anti-DBing behavior previously. He's doing exactly what I did, and I'm relishing in it, perhaps too much. Now the shoe is on the other foot and he's the needy one.
My goals... well I'm still fence sitting, overall, with the hopefulness that he will realize how much he loves me. Not that the changes aren't for me, but always optimistic that the changes will open his eyes to what I see is already there.
Here's the phone thing: Keeping him blocked means I won't answer the phone. Period. He can leave a message and it will teach me to think before I speak (as I have NEVER had much practice at that and often interupt speakers. I'm a terrible listener). That works on the days that ExCautious doesn't have S5. However, when he DOES, S5 can't call me, technically. Then again, S5 knows how to leave a message, since ExCautious refused to take calls from my number for a long time also. In addition, I don't know when the call comes in who will be on that line. Am I in for an ambush or a pleasant chat with my son? I know ExCautious is getting angry and he's going to blow up at any moment. I just still haven't figured out how to navigate that minefield because, previously, I WAS the minefield. And he managed to trip a few bombs himself, so I'm not learning much from his behavior.
I definitely used S5 to contact ExCautious before. However, (though not a good excuse) I had no idea how to handle childcare without ExCautious. We had always traded shifts, and I allowed him to be Commander In Charge Of Discipline. Suddenly, I had to be both parents and I got lost figuring the whole thing out. So it wouldn't surprise me if ExCautious was doing the same. We have a lot in common
All in all, I appriciate your feedback. I'm trying to do what's right for me, given my mishaps of the past and my goals for the future, but I feel like every now and then, the footholds are giving out.
It has to be very tough for you to maintain NC when your S5 is involved. How often does your S5 call you when he is with your EH? I think it would be best for you to leave his number blocked no matter if S5 is with him or not. Will S5 really be that bummed if he has to leave you a V/M?
You have to seriously stop with the hugs/affection too. Does your EH deserve your affection? Didn't he want the D? And if it is raining he should go in the house not get in the car with you. You have to have more respect for yourself and he has to miss you in order for what you are trying to accomplish to work.
It sounds like you are doing good in your GAL'ing and I think putting your daily goals out there like that is a good idea- I might try that.
Go get that pedicure - you deserve it!
I'm both getting excited and irritated at the same time. NC is hard because it is the exact opposite of what I've done in the past. But it's working, and that's exciting.
Just got a text: "You alive?" I'm tempted to squeal.
My emotions sure move quickly. I'm on to guilt over making ExCautious have to feel pain.
Thanks for stopping by my thread! I think you give great advice in the posts you make. You made a post in my old thread once that really made me think. Thanks for that!
I thought you were kidding about the "Seasonal affective disorder (SAD)" but I looked it up and its real. I think I have that too? And you know another good source of vitamin D - pickled herring - delish! J/K!
Have a good evening at work and don't let those co-wokers bug you. You know they probably just don't want to be there either.
And why do you feel guilty about making him feel a little discomfort in your not being available to him? I say again, did you want the D? Didn't he cause you pain by splitting up y'alls family/leaving you? Be strong!
Think if bitter co-worker asks, I'll just say "You know, I really don't want to talk about that right now." and leave it at that. I'm too moody today and I might say something I regret otherwise.
Hey, I read in some of your first post that your were seeing an IC to evaluate some of your anger issues. Have you been able to work those out?
Yes, sir. My anger issues were all about control. IC didn't help me discover that, I helped me discover that.
Took some deep thinking into my past, present, and future to see that I had control issues, who taught them to me, and why I did the things I did. Not easy to choke down an elixer of self-hate, but it had to be done. I need to know where my mistakes were, and in the beginning I was focusing on ExCautious's mistakes. Took me a year and a half (and a D) to start taking stock of my own blame.
I also have attention issues, can you tell?
A little "stuff that worked for me" journaling:
1. Most important - Keeping my sense of humor about the situation and life in general.
2. NC is all about making HIM come to me, on MY terms. He's currently coming to me via text, I want the phone calls. I also want to be invited to share in his life (a date or family outing with HIS money for once)
3. Good friends - to go out with, to stay in with, to hug.
4. Staying busy
5. Trying new things - who would have thought I would enjoy guitar so much, or GOLF for that matter?
Just found out there's a new OW. Freaking out, trying to get a grip. Stupid roller coaster.
I'm both getting excited and irritated at the same time. NC is hard because it is the exact opposite of what I've done in the past. But it's working, and that's exciting.
Just got a text: "You alive?" I'm tempted to squeal.
Cautious I had to LOL when I read this. That made my day.
I could only dream of getting that response from my XW.
I will probably never be at that stage post-divorce so I have no clue how I would respond. Might do the same thing you did. Maybe relish in it. We are human after all.
Like you, journeling has also helped me. I dont know why but putting in on type has always helped me to deal with things. Thats probably why my posts are so long winded.
It will be interesting for me to read my journal years from now and see what emotions it brings. Dealing with the hardest part of your life you almost have to record it somehow. I may even delete it as a final detachment but right now I value it as a reminder of a hard learned lesson.
Just found out there's a new OW. Freaking out, trying to get a grip. Stupid roller coaster.
OMG! ((Cautious)). Im so sorry.
I was just online when you posted this. Damn!
Are you certain that she is a threat? Maybe just a friend? Has your XH changed towards you? Your last post looked like he was intersted in you again.
I am certain it is a romantic interest in some fashion. That's why he needed the haircut - he's going to take her out for the first time soon.
It's not that he's disinterested in me, just that he's doing what he said he was going to do (and what I vowed not to do) - finding someone he wants to be with that's not me.
I guess the best way is to explain why I am NOT dating: S5. Simple as that. I did date a bit. It felt wrong, but I did it anyway. I convinced myself I deserved to be with someone who loved me. But in the end, S5 was seeing less and less of mommy. And he suffered. No, I WILL be there for my son and will not be distracted by a romantic interest. Nor will I put S5 in the position of deciding whether or not to call new man "Daddy". Wrong, wrong, wrong.
I just have to ride out ExCautious's storm right now, but I am pi$$ed that he's been talking to OW all day instead of spending time with his son.
I'm sorry to hear that there is a new OW... I know that has to be difficult for you. Is she someone serious?
I'm so sorry. It makes sense your not wanting to date. It is crappy that he is chasing a piece rather than being with his son.
Not yet. But with him, it will probably quickly become serious. He has low self esteem and will cling to her.
That sucks. I feel like that's kinda one reason why my W has clung to OM too. She likes to portray herself as positive and strong but deep down I think she is very insecure.
Why couldn't we help them overcome these issues? Why wouldn't they gives us a chance? It makes no sense.
On a side note - I like your list above. I feel like I've lost my sense of humor some because of my sitch. I'm trying to get it back.
Did something stupid, he's going to know it's me. Blast me.
Told his best friend something that ExCurious was keeping confidential. Want to know my reward?
Ignored his call and got this text: "You know for someone who wants to stir up **** you dont ever seem to want to talk to me"
I would calmly apologize by phone or in person and NOT let it turn into a conversation or argument.
(((Cautious))). I've read most of your thread but may have missed some things.
That is a hard place to be: divorced yet still hoping for reconciliation. Your X is legally and (most would say) morally free to live his own life, including romantic relationships.
I think you are right to try NC right now (though ideally arrange some way for your S to contact you without having to leave a voice mail). But remember that NC is mostly for YOU...to give yourself the space to rebuild yourself. Obsessing about your H isn't helping you to do that.
I don't blame you for continuing to want to reconcile...but you need to make self care a serious priority right now. I've started to read a book that might help:
http://www.amazon.com/Journey-Abandonment-Healing-Relationship-Beginning/dp/0425172287Even if there is a reconciliation in the cards for you...you still need to address all the feelings that come from being abandoned...and from your posts those feelings are very alive in you, not surprisingly.
Are you in IC? I think that would be wise...it really helps to get support to deal with the tough stuff.
Hang in there...
Thank you for the advice and recommendation, flowmom. I guess I'll let slip the confidential information now so you all can see exactly WHY I am so angry and flipping out right now:
I told ExCautious a week ago I was pregnant. He told me to have an abortion. I said I was not comfortable with that. He said he'd talk to me on Tuesday. Talk never happened. I don't think it's right for him to date while I'm pregnant with his child, so I texted this information to his best friend tonight, asking for his help in getting ExCautious to talk to me about the pregnancy... whether he's involved or not, whether he plans to sue for paternity or not, etc.
I don't feel wrong for what I did. A tiny bit guilty, sure, but definitely not wrong. He doesn't need two women pregnant at the same time, but that's not my choice to make.
Omigosh Cautious...that is a lot to deal with. I'm assuming ExC is the father? Would he have reason to doubt that?
I think you need to go NC more than ever now. I think you should not discuss your pregnancy at all with your H...he will see it as emotional blackmail. Give him space to absorb and wait for him to bring it up with you.
Yeah, I guess I should feel guilty. I just don't. I gave him ample time to talk to me, instead he ignored it. He claims he's "trying" to take care of his responsibilities, yet he never seems to come through on the big stuff. But he'll pester the crap out of me over a haircut?
And no, his only reason to doubt it is that he "doesn't know" what I do, since we don't live together. Um, hello? Taking care of your kid, that's what I do.
I'm really angry this evening. I had to work and it always puts me in a bad mood.
OMG Cautious,
I had no idea about the preg. I completely missed that in your thread somehow.
I have to say that I have no respect for your X at this point.
Regardless of divorce, if my X were pregnant with MY child she would be my #1 concern until the child was born. And I would be on her like white on rice until we both made a solid decision about the unborn child.
Unless he thinks your bluffing.
And I hate to say it but it sounds like your XH is too immature to be married or be a father. JMHO.
Wow Cautious that is a difficult situation. Calling his friend and disclosing that info may not have been the best approach.
I believe flowmom is right. You have to back off from him. He should man up and take responsibility for his actions - don't get me wrong. Pursuing him with this though may really push him away.
I'm headed to JC's house this morning. I'm going to say a prayer for you.
You guys are all probably right. I'll just ride out the storm and let him make all his stupid decisions. Maybe he'll figure it out along the way or maybe he'll just be selfish forever... What a depressing thought - he used to have his act together.
Screwed up a little today.
Ex dropped off S5, and I lost it. I went off on him for being a bad father, for spending more time with his phone than his son, etc. He said he stands firm on abortion. I asked him to spend more time thinking about it.
Here's some mistakes:
- Lost my temper. Duh, that was a huge one.
- Cried.
- Asked who he was involved with. (Got major denial on this one)
- Begged him to reconsider his decision.
- Asked for help during pregnancy.
- Told him what he's doing "wrong" in his R with S5.
All speculation, but I think I know ExCautious enough that this is pretty close to the truth: He's going on that date tonight. He may or may not feel some guilt about it, but mostly he feels like he's "pulling one over" on me. Eventually that's going to become a difficult R to maintain, especially since his best friend and his father now know that I am P. At this point, I just have to ride it out, try to keep my PMA up, and see how and when he'll be willing to assist me, if at all.
The weird part is, he made me consider the A as a viable choice. But he has to realize that would cost him $200 - $250 for half as well as I would be out of commission for a month for recovery (can't even lift over 12lbs for two weeks). I'm definitely not going to keep silver plattering. I'm going to make this as difficult for him as he's making it for me, just subtly.
Maybe I'm being a bit too harsh, though. For now, back to NC until he comes to me.
I forgot to say that my mood today is mostly that he doesn't deserve me. Doing a bit of waffling, I suppose.
I forgot to say that my mood today is mostly that he doesn't deserve me. Doing a bit of waffling, I suppose.
Big fat BINGO! My alarm bells are going off. He DOES NOT deserve you! Now let that fact simmer in your mind. Sorry for getting emotional here but I am starting to take a personal interest in your sitch. Let me know if I am out of line.
This may or may not be some tough love from me but I have to say it.
Yes you screwed up but I will say this. IF HE does continue to go on that date despite what you just told him then there is something seriouly wrong with the man. Honestly.
I hate to say it but I think you need to sit down and re-evaluate why you want him back in the first place.
If he really has that little respect for you and your children (born and unborn) then I would tell you to start detaching to the point where he no longer matters because it sounds like your XH is like my XW. They just do not care and are blindsided by their own selfishness.
I think you need to start thinking about your own well being and that of your children in the long run. Start thinking of him as only your XH because that is exactly what he is.
Do what I do. Hold on to a little hope but do not live for it. Go on with life and consider the fact that he may never come back. I honestly think that this type of detachment would be the healthiest thing for you and your children.
I know your hurting and I wish I were there to give you a real hug instead of a virtual one. Please take your time to consider what I just posted.
Cautious, I think you need to consider whether you would want your X to reconcile with you because of your pregnancy. It seems like that's what you're asking him to do...but is that right for you and your S and your unborn child? If your H felt emotionally blackmailed into reconciling with you...realistically would he have the motivation to do the necessary work?
I can understand that your emotions must be all over the place with dealing with the D and the pregnancy and all the hopes and fears that that brings with it. But I think you need to deal with your emotions so that they are not continually exploding with your H. From your posts it sounds like you are trying to control your reactions...but I think you need to be more proactive and process all the pain and anger that is present for you.
hugs to you. These are very difficult things.
(Hugs)
Cautious- I'm right there w/ you, except I'm not P...You DO deserve better!! Hope is an OK thing to have, but like G said- you cannot live for it...
Even today, I fight the urge to beg, convince, and emotionall breakdown for WAW...IT DOESNT WORK...
W/ your future interactions, you need to do what works, and stop doing what does not.
I know it's hard- but it will help you detach further, hopefully to the point where it would be nice, but you could care less.
You have a lot on your plate- every interaction w/ WH will leave you in pain if you do not detach...
Today I evaluated some of my "more of the same" behavior and I've pretty much enabled him and bailed him out any time he had issues. That is going to stop.
As for your concerns above... THANK YOU. But it's like someone mentioned a long time ago: Sometimes I see glimpses of the person he USED to be, the person I fell in love with. At this point, he is someone I don't know and don't want to be with. Will he change "back" or will he continue on this selfish road? I don't know, but I'm not going to put money in his hand every time he holds it out any more.
I need some time to think about the other (P) angle of my sitch, though, so forgive me if I'm not around as much.
For a while there I saw small/tiny/miniture glimpses of the person my W used to be too. It is crazy how they change into a completely different selfish person.
It seems like a WAS can never completely change back. From what I have read here the WAH are more likely to come back, but the WAS is out there having different experiences during their WA that will change them permanently in some ways. It sounds like you are not even the same person since all of this began for y'all.
Did you tell his F about the P or did he? Telling his BF may not have been a good idea but IMO telling his parents is. He needs to accept his portion of the responsibilty for the P and hopefully his parents would hold him accountable (if he won't hold himself accountable).
P.S. It is good that you have recognized you were enabling him and you are going to stop. That sounds like a healthy step in detaching for you.
Please don't judge me, but I decided to go ahead with the A. After much thought, I decided either way would be difficult, but that I would need to get support for unborn and he would resent unborn because of it in the long run. It would be a toxic environment for this child, and if you're anti A, I'd really appriciate not hearing your opinions right now (though I understand if you're mentally keying my car right now). I feel terrible about it as it is, please don't make me hate myself more.
It's true, Quart, that I am not the same person as I was before I started all of this, but I feel like all the changes I have made are positive ones.
As for who told his dad... Well, I have to own up to that. I did discuss my reasons why with him (ExCautious constantly hides things/lies about things with his family and I enabled that behavior - though I tried to be sneaky and let them know certain things behind ExCautious's back, such as the foreclosure). I told him he should own up to his actions, but I couldn't force him. He admitted that he lied to BF and his father both, telling them that I am psychotic because of recent illness in my family. I said "Great, make me out to be a psychopath." He denied, I let it drop. No use defending myself. I'll tell his BF and dad the truth if asked. Otherwise, at least I made my feelings about his lying clear. He paves his own road from here.
Going dark. I love him still, because when he tried to ambush me today ("Hey Cautious, I'm on my way over"), instead of telling him no, I told him I would be home in 15 mins and rushed to get my errand done in time. I have to stop that.
So pretty much I'm going to re-execute the plan... with a few twists here and there. I'm going to wait until he calls me to invite me out (more than likely under the guise of a family outing) and refuse the first invitation. I know some people think I'm weak or what I'm doing isn't worth it, but this is the decision I've made. I have a life of my own and don't really care if this works or not, but it would be nice if it did and I had Mr. Cautious back, instead of whoever ExCautious is now.
Cautious,
Dont feel bad. We all slip up. I also slipped this weekend.
XW called me after almost a month of darkness and like a love sick puppy I went over there and fixed a bunch of crap for her.
And it was all stuff that I probably should have left for my Son to do (he is her landlord). But at least she called first and gave me dinner. (again with the doggie bisquits).
Next time I will refuse the scooby snack and see what that does.
Again though Cautious, DETACH detach detach. Yes anything can happen but just prepare for the worst by getting yourself ready for it emotionally and mentally. Put it on your bathroom mirror like I did so that every morning it gives you a reality check before you go to work or play.
You never know Cautious, there could be a prince of a man out there that was made for you that you have not met yet. Have faith.
Hang in there girl. You can do it!
You never know Cautious, there could be a prince of a man out there that was made for you that you have not met yet. Have faith.
It's very likely that I am using ExCautious to avoid this scenario, but I don't really care if I am. I do not want to meet anyone at this point in my life. I do not want to 1-take away any attention I have for my son (to text Prince, to talk on the phone with Prince, or worse - to spend time with Prince instead of S5) or 2-force S5 to have to make the decision whether to call Prince Dad or not, either way someone stands to get hurt. I've seen how quickly ex sis in law found someone new after my brother, and within WEEKS she had my neices all calling new guy "Daddy". Killed my brother. I'm not doing that to ExCautious - no one deserves that pain, I don't care WHAT they did to me.
I hear ya Cautious. But you are still very young.
Your Son will not be a child forever and one day you will find him moving out on his own.
This is the empty nest scenario that sparked the start of my own failed marriage and now me and my XW are older and alone. Would not wish that on anyone.
But to be honest, you have complete control over who your Son calls his Daddy. That would be your choice. As long as the family unit is a loving one then the child will benefit no matter who is called daddy. Just MHO.
And you also deserve to be happy. And Im not saying to rush out and grab the first guy you see. Im talking years and maybe a decade from now.
But do not fall into the trap of living only for your Son. It is not healthy for you or your offspring. Never say never Cautious. Just keep an open mind and an open heart.
In my situation I love my wife still dearly. But I have come to realize and appreciate how much better other women treat me as a man and show respect for me that my wife did not show me for years. I understand that my options are all wide open. But I would take my wife back in a heart beat and she knows it.
And those my dear are just some of the benefits of detaching as I am starting to learn.
Cautious, I just want you to know that I am pro-choice. It's such a difficult decision to make, and I think it's the rare woman who would make it lightly. I have known women who have made that choice for the sake of their families and children, and I respect them for that. hugs to you.
Thanks for not throwing stones, fm. I just can't bear the thought... but I do know that I will live through it and it will only get easier. What won't get easier is waiting for ExCautious to come out of denial.
I feel sorry for him in a way. He doesn't have a single real friend or family. He only has himself, since he lies and denies his own life to everyone around him. But I'm not enabling that behavior. And, again, if his dad or BF ask, I'll tell them the truth. It's the best favor I can do for him, the way I see it. Once he's exposed to the people who have been there for him, he'll have to start answering for his own actions and he'll have to REALLY deal with life.
But if they don't ask, there's no reason for me to push the envelope again.
Journaling:
Today was... like that noise horses make... or maybe donkeys.
I accidentally hugged ex... he woke me up and caught me off guard. I pretty much yelled at him all day, so pretty large backslide, but I'm not letting it get to me.
I'm pretty much depressed today, think I deserve a couple days of downtime. It's too hard to keep up PMA every time I see ExCautious, almost wears me out because I have to psych myself up for it.
Decided I'm going to put some money into myself to try and cheer myself up. Dunno if that will work out the way I plan, but maybe.
Sorry for being so vague... I'll try to explain when even I know what I'm thinking.
(((Cautious))) Can you spend less time with ExC? It sounds like the interactions are not helping your goals...
It will be easier after Wednesday. We just had to finalize all of our "plans" and had S5 exchanges every other day due to the weekend and he has Tues and Weds evening custody. I won't see him all weekend - just good friends and - something I've been looking forward to - graduation for my friends on Thursday.
Just have to see him tomorrow and then I can sleep it off for a while. Thanks for asking, it was just one of those weeks.
The donkey says, "Hee haw, hee haw." Is that what today felt like? LOL!
Cautious no one should judge you for that decision you made. It is your body and you are a grown woman. You have the right to do whatever you want.
It’s just like anything that happens to us in our sitch's - it occurs, we have to deal with it, and we have to learn/grow from it.
I wouldn't feel bad for telling Ex's family and friends the truth (especially if you are asked by them). The dude shouldn't be making you out to be a psycho to them. The common theme (of course) is for our Ex's to down play us to their fam and friends. I guess it makes them feel better. It’s not fair to you.
You should not feel sorry for him not having close friends and family (especially if it’s because he lies to them). Like G450 and others have said - you have to detach from him. The interactions, thoughts, missing Ex, and communicating with Ex will all just wear you out. It doesn't seem to get you very far except more hurt.
As far a seeing Ex, I have only experienced it a couple of times since my W and I split, but it’s like you have this built up anxiety and excitement to see them. You hope it goes well and then you want more. It’s heartbreaking.
I don't blame you for not wanting to bring dates or another man around your son. Seeing someone that actually WANTS to see you though seems like it would be good for you. You're too young not to get out and enjoy life and find someone else to really enjoy it with.
Thanks as always, Quart. I really needed some encouragement today.
Today went fairly well. Managed to keep it cool as I dropped off S5, even though I was slightly miffed by ExCautious's actions. Made small talk with ExFIL, but kind of abruptly ended it because of the miff... eh, you win some you lose some. I'll do better next time, he's always been more of a father to me than my own and I'd hate to damage that connection. (Don't worry, I'm not overindulging either, it's just awkward and I'd like it to be smoother)
Got home, took a nap. School today was exhausting & I guess I used all my energy being a "team leader". That's a long story that can be shortened by simply saying I intend to come back to the school to teach in 3 years, so I go over and above in class.
ExCautious showed up while I was just arriving home from picking up a special request from S5. Strange sidenote: S5, who NEVER calls for the 2 hour visits, called around 7pm tonight. Just to chat. Really weird, but he didn't really mention anything. Sometimes he's afraid to say things because he'll get in trouble with me or ExCautious for "tattling". But he didn't bring it up tonight either. So I'll just let it go. He's had to act well above his age since this whole process started, I can't expect him to outright say "I am having trouble with my relationship with you/daddy because I am not recieving enough attention/praise". I'll just keep an eye on things and try to work it out when it becomes more clear.
So I was juvenile. I'll admit it. But the overall effect, I think, will probably work out to my advantage. ExCautious was in his "dressed up" clothes. So I said "Have fun on your date." and walked away. To which he initially said "Okay!" Then changed to "Wish that's where I was going!" I said nothing, just kept walking. Got my popcorn popping, just waiting for this to pick up speed so I can watch the wreck. I hope there will be 3-D glasses.
Just need to vent:
Why is it so ******* difficult to pay your **** child support? Going to the courthouse tomorrow. He can think about the former question in jail.
Can't you have his wages garnished? No worries then mate.
I think it is cool that you have a good relationship with your ExFIL as that probably makes it better for S5. Sorry to hear that it is not better between you and your own dad - I know how that goes.
This has to be tough on your S5. I was about his age too when my parents split. I read so many sitch's on here where the WAS selfishly thinks their kids are "resilient" and "will bounce back." It makes me wonder if any of these people had D parents and if they consider how it made them feel?!
ExCautious was in his was in his "dressed up" clothes. So I said "Have fun on your date." and walked away. To which he initially said "Okay!" Then changed to "Wish that's where I was going!" I said nothing, just kept walking. Got my popcorn popping, just waiting for this to pick up speed so I can watch the wreck. I hope there will be 3-D glasses.
This is hilarious! This is the stuff I would say if I had the chance. Dude, I wanna see a wreck too! I think that is bad DB'ing though?
Cautious, I also backslid myself yesterday so you are not in an exclusive backsliding club. Hell I think we have membership jackets for that here.
Like you I WAS Grey. She called me to help her with my Sons riding mower. Had a flat tire and needed to buy and install a tube etc.
Like a love sick idiot I went over there to take care of it. She seemed grateful but still distant. Almost a month ago she said she wanted to be "friends" with me. I took that hook line and sinker. Well yesterday she got upset because I sat too close to her on her couch and she got up as if I had just tried to grope her or something.
I asked her why she was so cold to me if she in fact wanted to be "my friend". She then told me that we could NEVER be friends. Well WTF? That's not what she said a month ago.
I started to get my sh** and leave. She made a comment that I was upset and could not handle things etc. Well no sh**! I told her she needed to make up her mind. I also told her that I was not putting my life on hold for her and that I was stronger than she gave me credit for.
Why the hell should I stay there and keep her company? Asked her what was the point of it? She doesnt want me as a husband (obviousely) and she doesnt want me as a friend. Although she does things for me (scooby snacks) she basically treats me like her personal Maytag Repairman. And with the same love and warmth that you would give a mail man or taxi driver.
So with that said I am no longer grey. I am now going dark. Will NOT answer her calls unless its an emergency and she will have to text me. Better yet, she can call her Son since he is her landord.
Honestly, Im just tired of her sh**! I deserve better. Now dday will come in here and plant a 2x4 upside my head for sure and I will deserve every splinter I get.
What the hell is wrong with these people. What freaking planet do they live on? If I didnt still love the woman I would have blocked her calls months ago. That would have been the smart thing to do. So why can't we let go of our love for them?
Sorry for hijacking your thread to vent but you of all people here know exactly what I am feeling right now.
Hey Cautious. I am sorry for you, me and everyone else here that our WAS's care more about the temporal pleasures they are seeking than committment, loyalty, integrity ect.ect. Even though I want my husband to desire a life with my son and I again, there is that thought that he simply lacks character, and will never change. And you know what, I don't want my son to grow up to be like that. Maybe we are lucky they left even if it hurts like h...!
The truth is my son worships him. Maybe someday my husband will be able to be a role model for him. Maybe when his testosterone level decreases, his son will be more important than OW.
Don't let yourself get on a guilt trip about the choices you have needed to make. Honestly, having to experience the pain my son is having is enough to make me wish he had not been born so he could avoid this. We tried so hard to have him, and were so happy when he was conceived and it just blows my mind that STBX could walk away.
Like you, I am stuck seeing STBX often due to child care. The good thing about that is, I have done a 180 in my behavior and attitude, and he has noticed. I came home from work and he had gone to the grocery store for me and bought some of my favorite things, folded my laundry, and changed the lightbulbs. And he has been sticking around a little longer after I get home. I need him out of here though, because he is able to satisfy what little desire he has for family and home, have his cake and eat it too.
I am pathetic! I look for anything to convince myself he is missing us. So what if he buys groceries ect ect. He filed for divorce and surprised me with it, and had me served on our son's first day of kindergarten. Why I still want him is the million dollar question.
Thanks to everyone for being here and sharing yourself. This forum has been my life line for over a year.
This is hilarious! This is the stuff I would say if I had the chance. Dude, I wanna see a wreck too! I think that is bad DB'ing though?
Absolutely not. Sometimes our WAS have to have a fight with the new person in order to realize that ALL couples fight and there's no such thing as happily ever after without work. Additionally, the first fight is your "in", where you get to be the knight in shining armor as you "rescue" them from their problems by doing the same thing OM/OW did to you - lending an ear for listening. You have to stomach some details you'd rather not know, but it's par for the course as you're awaiting the X coming back. Again, this is just a strategy I think is appropriate, and not some kind of solid rule. Just makes sense to me. To tie it in with DB, I remember a line in DB that said something about "an affair with your spouse", and that's how I view it: if she/he can steal him/her from me, I can steal right back, except I'll be more understanding about the withdrawl symptoms than she/he was.
g450: Hijack away. We're all in this together. Do you want the positives or the negatives first? Of course you want the positives! Okay, W is showing signs that being around you makes her uncomfortable, awkward even. This means that she is dealing with feelings of attraction and familiarity that she isn't ready to process. A small positive, but definitely a positive. Now the negatives: She's confused. She has no idea what she wants, but she has made up her mind that it's NOT you (not yet, anyway, but that's all up to you if you). You have to accept this decision, as painful as it is. Next time she asks you to do something for her, tell her "I'm sorry, I was about to step out." or "I'm too busy for that right now." You could be busy counting the lint in your belly button, but she doesn't need to know that. All she knows right now is you're her safety net: If she can't find someone NEW to take care of her needs, she can fall right back to you. I applaud you on going dark, but you have to decide that "emergency" better mean someone is bleeding or something is on fire. And even then, she should be calling 911 instead of you, so WTF is she doing on the phone with you?
yrsofhurt: Would it have been better if you had been served on your son's 2nd day of kindergarten? Either way you go, it's a blow. When my papers arrived, it was just another day, but you know why it sucked so much? I went to a friend's house and said "friend" told me to suck it up, she had her own problems. The lack of support is what broke me down to tears. People ask me all the time, especially on this forum, why I put up with ExCautious, only you know that - and you don't owe any of us any explanations. You do owe it to yourself, though, so if you're really wondering, give yourself some time to think/write about it.
I'm glad he's helping you out with the things right now. If nothing else, at least those are a few less duties you have to carry the burden of. Accept what he's offering graciously, and keep moving on with your changes. I would definitely tell him, if I were in your sitch, that you appriciate that he took a couple things off your to-do list, but leave it at that. You don't need a long drawn out conversation to say thank you. In fact, I sometimes give ExCautious a thank you card when he does things, because it encourages the changes I see in HIM that I would like to see in our future, should there be a future of which to speak.
Now for me. Journaling:
Yesterday was a tiny backslide, but I got footing in the end. ExCautious tried to ambush me again while dropping off the check. I admitted my wrongs (after I let him go on about it for a minute or two) and half apologized. I should have given a full apology, but I was caught off guard by the angry ambush - which is becoming his style lately. Did I mention I looked HOT? I could not have looked any better without the aid of cosmetic surgery. Had a graduation to attend, but I'll get to that later, so I already had my cute little dress on, makeup done, hair did, perfume on, etc. So the whole time he's arguing with me, I'm just listening, saying what I have to... then I grabbed that foothold: As you can see, ExCautious, I have some things to do today; we can discuss this at some other time.
Took S5 to the graduation. He was a typical 5 year old, so I was nearly in tears after the two hour service. Not to mention the bad jokes. I had a great time with an attractive classmate. Don't make those "OOOOoooooh" noises, he's three years younger than me. But I didn't mind being seen with him, even if he's not interested. And, in a shady part of town, I was excited to have a man along, even if it was by accident.
My friends had a lovely graduation (former classmates from my school), and there were only minimal tears shed. And for once, I wasn't a cryer. Had a somewhat deep conversation with attractive classmate about how he is too good for another girl who graduated yesterday. Thanked attractive classmate for the company, made some hick jokes (he grew up on a farm), and went home. The rest of classmates attended a pretty wild party last night. I got some much needed sleep.
Overall, I'd say yesterday was some major PMA points. Today, I intend to stay in with S5 playing his favorite video game and, for once, not cooking - we're going to order in, since he fell asleep last night and we couldn't go out to a nice late dinner.
Thanks for your viewpoint Cautious. I hope you are right that she may still feel something but it sure as hell doesnt feel that way to me right now.
She only called me when she had things that needed to be done that was technical or guy stuff etc. My Son is her landlord but he basically just ignores her or procrastinates on her requests until she gets frustrated with him.
Basically she is on the phone with me because she only has three choices. Either 1)Con me into doing it for her. 2)Pay somebody to do it or 3)Get an OM to do it for her. And option 3 will complicate things for her as I do not think she wants another man around her wanting the usual favors that men want when they do labor for a woman. Sad but true, that is how most of us think. Present company excluded for now.
My only fear is that in my darkness she will seek help from other men. But then again, what do I have to lose? What is she going to do? Divorce me? Like I have been told before, she needs to know what life will be like without me. This going grey thing was only temporary and what I expected to happen actually did happen. Not really a surprise. I took my chances and lost.
Anyway, Im going back to counting the lint in my belly button in the dark. It's a new hobby of mine.
Ironically, the kind of stuff I used to do for my XW I am now doing for my female friend. At least she feeds me and is friendly and affectionate towards me. And NO there is no sex involved. We have set that boundry up in our friendship. And she has made this perfectly clear. You have to love a woman that knows what she wants and will tell you straight up with no BS. Only wish my wife was like this when we were married to each other.
And yes you are absolutely right. There is nothing stronger than seeing the woman you love wearing that little black dress. This absolutely drives us guys crazy. Use that to your advantage. Let him know what he is missing. He may not act like it but I guarantee you he will be thinking about you tonight. I would bet money on it.
Good luck Cautious. We both need it now.
Checking in on you Cautious,
How are things? Anything new?
Not posting here is a bit out of character for you so I was worried even though its only been three days.
Just wanted to poke you with a stick to see if you were still kicking.
Take care.
Eh, password issues. I should never have logged out.
I haven't really done anything worth noting. Just GALing with the small fry by playing video games all weekend. Haven't talked to ExCautious in about 4 days. Feels good. Have to see him tomorrow... ugh.
Goals for tomorrow:
1. Get out of crabby mood
2. Get laundry done
3. Avoid arguing with ExCautious at all costs.
Good to hear. I like video games as well. I'm just a big kid at heart.
I'm doing pretty good being dark myself. Zero contact for over a week now. My Son did her (his) lawn today so I'm glad he took care of it before he left town. This way she wont have an excuse to call me for a favor.
The less contact I have with her the more detached I feel.
My goals for this week:
1)Do my darn lawn.
2)Laundry, Groceries, Clean house.
3)Spend quality time with my friend.
Journaling:
Read some of the success stories today. Checked users' old threads (as much as was archived). Found a few gems: Detatch from the rejection, not from your spouse. Make yourself irresistable.
Resistance comes from negativity. We naturally move AWAY from things and people who make us feel slighted. In order to make ExCautious more comfortable, I will have to take away the negatives. I'm trying to remember to keep my mouth shut and stay on topic when discussing important issues.
Additionally, FYI to my friends here on the boards: I will be away next weekend. Thank you for being here for me while I go through this journey. I don't think I could be this strong without your support.
TY Cautious, the feeling is mutual. Glad you visited my thread and gave me things to think about.
FYI, I keep this on my cellphone to remind me of what I need to do and my goals. I stole it from somebody else here and modified it a bit. Thought I would share it with you all:
Go dark! Do NOT contact her.
Detach!
Do not talk to old friends and family about her.
Let her deal with her issues and
the consequences of her divorce.
Let her call YOU.
Stop persuing, be the lighthouse.
Let her know I want her but don't need her.
Be a Friend.
Don't Monitor, spy, bug, nag, etc.
Don't be at every beckon call.
Support but from a distance.
Take care of myself and stay visible.
Goals for self:
Become an Alpha male.
Make myself attractive.
Exercise.
Diet.
Get enough sleep.
Cut back on the beer.
Update wardrobe.
Be a Man, not her doormat.
Anyway, see you next week. take care.
Goals for yesterday were half done. I half avoided arguing, at least managed to walk away well. I half did the laundry. Some stuff happened with a friend, but I don't know the details at this time, so I'm giving him some space to sort it all out, but it definitely had an effect on me last night.
So tonight, I'm taking it easy on my goals and just finishing the other halves:
1. Finish laundry
2. Play the stupid game my son wants me to play/finish my homework for school (new class next week - woo hoo!)
3. Avoid arguing with ExCautious at exchange times tonight.
Reflecting on ExCautious's patterns of behavior, I think I have at least 5 months before he's going to start coming around and building from there will be hard. I expect the big change from him around September (our anniversary). If he's not seeing anyone then, he'll likely be getting nostalgic. This effect will be increased over the following months, as he will be gearing up for deer season, which, for whatever reason, has an emotional effect on him every year. If I can continue to be patient with the upcoming months and "play my cards right", I should be able to be where I wish we were now by about Christmas. If not, I'll at least have a couple years of GALing under my belt and be well on my way to a new job and a new life.
Some anger: I hate that I know ExCautious so well that I can predict his patterns of behavior as above, yet ExCautious keeps trying to fit me into a tiny shoebox of a limited amount of information he knows about me. And that info includes some incomplete data he doesn't seem to care to complete - because it's easier to see me as some kind of monster who makes firm decisions for "no reason other than spite". This has been an issue for a long time and will need some effort on both our parts if it is to be resolved. It has caused many issues and arguments over the years from the very beginning - one year, ignoring my repeated admissions that I am not a fan of jewelry, he balked at my reaction to a Christmas gift of a lovely necklace. It wasn't that I didn't like the necklace, I simply wasn't as excited about it as he had hoped, because, in his mind (due to commercial brainwashing probably), jewelry is the gift that gets the huge reaction from women. I hope that, should things go well, I might be upgraded to a hat box or something.
Last night's argument was slightly necessary, but I didn't handle it completely well: issue with son's imaginary play incorporating ExCautious's comments about alcohol consumption. I managed to walk away from it with SOME dignity and grace.
So I'm kind of crabby today, totally ready to get this week out of the way so I can move on to a new class and gear up for all the waiting I'll be having to do!
I can NOT be polite to save my life! I'm so angry that it just comes spewing out in my actions and the way I treat that man. Maybe it's better that way for now... I have every right to be angry, but isn't that a little anti DB? Aren't I supposed to sweep this stuff under the rug for now?
I wasn't really RUDE, per se... I just was rushed, like I didn't have time to listen to all the things he wanted to tell me today. Maybe it will go better this evening when my son comes back home. I just don't want him getting any ridiculous ideas like I want to be with him or something like that. I do NOT want to be with THIS man, but I would consider a man who apologizes appropriately and realizes the hurt he has caused.
Cautious, I don't think that DBing means sweeping your anger under the rug. It means dealing with it, not venting. ExC isn't an appropriate or safe person for you to process your anger with right now. That's for IC, personal work, and very supportive friends. You're having trouble controlling your actions around ExC and I think it's because you probably need to deal with some of your feelings in a focused way. I hope that you can work on this. Staying calm would be a 180 for you...what would make it possible for you to do that?
The thing is, how do I discuss the big issue that concerns both HIM and ME without allowing my anger to show? Or problems with S5?
Cautious, use us as your sounding board.
Even if it means getting nasty. It is what we are here for. Just think of me as a D.A.M. and use me if you have to.
Never direct anger at your WAS. It's counter intuitive.
You have to release your anger before dealing with him and keep you and him on an even keel.
Honestly honey, just suck it up and play the good guy and fake it if you have to. Take out your frustrations on us if you have to. Its what we are here for and you wont hurt our feelings.
Let it go.
Deal with him on terms that put you on the high road. Do not stoop to his level.
You could stick to email communication. It's less personal, but frankly personal isn't working for you. Also, there is affordable IC out there...I recommend it.
I was going to IC before. Scheduling conflicted, as there is no one to watch my S5 other than myself. ExCautious refuses to spend time with S5 that isn't "his" time, meaning what is on the court papers. The other side is that I saw two Cs. One was WONDERFUL, but she left the company, so I was transferred to a woman who treated me like she was better than me. I didn't need the judgement or the hassle.
I can't avoid F2F communication with ExCautious as we are constantly exchanging S5 throughout the week. He determined this schedule. My theory is that he wanted to keep constant track of me. His reasoning for factoring Wednesday into the equation was so that I "could go get drunk" with my friends. Wednesday was ladies night at a bar I used to go to with my friends. We would vent, talk, etc. but I did not get drunk, much less what is he thinking when I'd have my son back that evening? That I'd go get ****faced and then be an excellent mother? I've considered asking to meet for exchanges at the courthouse (many high conflict couples leave a child in a special courtroom with a court provided guardian and leave while the other parent comes from the other side to pick up), but the cost seems enormous to drive all that way 2 to 4 times a week.
No clear cut solution.
Last night went ok. ExCautious asked about taking S5 on vacation in July... I am REALLY uncomfortable with the idea of going on a 12 hour drive to another state to spend time with ExCautious's best friend, mother and step father, with the potential for additional persons that I have never met. I told him that I would have to think about it, but that the dates are completely acceptable (he has to provide dates by the 31st, according to our PP). He kept trying to give me information and I kept cutting him off, stating that I would have to think about it. He told me he "understood", but kept pushing with more and more information. I finally told him "you don't even have all the information right now, let's talk about this when you know the exacts." His best friend is a horrible influence for my son right now. There are several reasons for this, but I'm not going to say anything right now about it - it's an ongoing argument between ExCautious and I. I have to bite my tongue to keep from telling him to just get naked with him and be done with it, since ExCautious couldn't be more up his best friend's a$$.
We discussed some other issues... upcoming birthday party, funeral services, etc. Then he mentioned that he had bought a new video game, one I had mentioned when things were going "well" that I was excited about. I couldn't control the words from my mouth as I said "@$$hole". He said I was welcome to come by and watch it at any time. Kept insisting that I was welcome, etc. I said no, no, no, no, we'll see. He is the master of the weardown, isn't he? Tried it with the vacation, worked on it with the game... geez. That must have worked really well on me before. Sounds like a good place to start some 180s.
I'm tempted by the game, but I'm not ready to spend that kind of time with ExCautious at this time.
Goals for today:
1. Play with S5.
That's it. I don't have the energy necessary for three. I was incredibly productive yesterday, today I get to take the day off.
He is playing you it seems.
But you are doing a good job of showing him that you will not play that game. Im proud of you.
Any way to have him adjust how often you exchange S5?
No, he's dead set on that. You know how they say that we only remember 50% of the message? ExFIL encouraged him to be a family man and take care of his kids, all ExCautious heard was "50/50 custody" without really grasping what that meant, I think. It's harder when he's trying to do the right thing while still MLCing... or whatever you want to call what he's doing. I can see that he's trying what he thinks is right, and I can see that he's failing, and I can see that I point out his every mistake, and I can see that this is what my life is going to be like for the next 13 years or so. Thing is, ExCautious was the best father ever when S5 was S0-18mos. He was PRESENT, he held himself accountable, he even helped with the overnight feedings/diaperings. So I don't know if that was the real ExCautious or all an act. That's what I'm trying to understand now, I guess.
When things were going "well", I went over to hang out with ExCautious and he made some incredibly lewd remarks to me and then seemed defensive when I told him I didn't appriciate that kind of humor. He told me that is the way he interacts with his friends and I tried to explain to him that I'm not one of his buddies and this sure didn't look like a head shop. Do I have to be one of his friends and degrade myself to their level to be with him? I certainly hope not, because he's not worth that.
Hell NO! Again, you stay on the high road.
Sooner or later he will realize what he has done and what he has lost.
Keep up the PMA and when you are forced to interact with him, show him that you are the better person. Show him you are the adult.
Today, I don't want to do anything. I had the first day of my new class (for the month). I'd love more than anything to just sleep the rest of the day off, but I know that's not practical, especially when you're a mom... and about to pick your son up from the bus stop in less than 10 minutes.
Yesterday, ExCautious was somewhat kind to me, but not affectionate in really any way. Just civil. He half-heartedly gave me a hug before leaving. I half-heartedly accepted the hug. Kind of wish that either one of us was in this 100%. Unfortunately, I'm too busy GALing and worrying about backfire from all the issues that have gone unaddressed to even be close to 100% anymore. Maybe 80 to 85. Then the pressure from friends and family to "give it up" is probably not helping my chances much either.
Weekend was ok. Not fabulous or supurb, just okay. I definitely got out of the house and did something with my life. Spent a lot of time drinking and dancing, but I didn't send a single drunken text message or phone call ExCautious's way. So I GALed, but it felt empty when I came home to my own bed alone and by myself. And then the sleep wasn't much good either.
Today, I'm wishing I had a weekend to recover from my weekend.
Goals for today are out the window. I just want to relax and not feel the pressure to be anyone I don't want to be or do anything I don't want to do.
sometimes those days are necessary...I think you're doing a really good job...do watch the anger, though its deserved...
Hey Cautious! Just want to say thank you for the well wishes.
I was catching up on your sitch and I have to confess I was shocked when I read a couple of posts back where you said you don’t like jewelry?! You do like video games though! Do you like sports? OMG! ExC what is wrong with you man!!
I’m sorry to hear about some of your anger resurfacing. It seems justified – especially with the way he has been jerking you around. I wish there was a way for you to see an IC as flowmom suggests. I know you say it is tough because S5 would need somewhere to stay. Could you work it in w/ your school schedule? Does your school offer IC?
Please be careful with the expectations (for him to change/come around near your anniversary or with hugs and affection). It seems like you might be setting yourself up for more hurt there.
Congrats on the GALing and on not sending a drunken text. You’re lucky to have that much self control. This sounds cheesy, but you know what I’ve been doing when I get that intoxicated urge to send the ‘ol booze fueled text? I send whatever I wanted to say to her to myself. Then when I wake up and I look at my phone to find out how much of an idiot I was I instead see how much of an idiot COULD have been.
Thank you all for your support during this time. However, in light of last night's events, I have to declare that I am DONE. There is no longer anything worth admiring about that man whatsoever, as far as I am concerned.
It hurts that, for whatever reason, I still care about him in any way, but I do. It's going to be a long hard road from here to complete acceptance, so I may still be around, but there is no way I can actually be with this man ever again. He can't even be true to his word concerning our child.
Im so sorry Cautious.
That was my gut feeling about him when I read your last few posts. And I was hoping I was wrong but I think you see what I see now.
Now you will need all your strength to detach from him.
And some of us never fully detach. But we can do it enough to have a life post-divorce and still be happy.
I wish you the best and hope that you will not leave this forum for good. If you do then let me say I will miss you and your outlook on life. You were a breath of fresh air in my and others threads.
Take care honey.
Hi Cautious. I'm sorry that you've been dealing with unpleasant events. I hope that you get some support as you detach. That will help you be the best mother that you can be as you reach for acceptance of the painful truths of your sitch. Take care.
Your efforts to try and retain your family have been admirable. You deserve better treatment though (we all do). Good luck to you and stay strong Cautious.
Hi guys! It's been a while, and I thought I'd update a little. If nothing else, just to get some of this stuff out of my head.
First of all, happy mother's day to all the moms!
My mother's day started off pretty pleasant, actually. ExCautious was a little late dropping S5 off, but no big deal. He had paid for some gifts of chocolates and greeting cards for S5 to deliver to me. I joked that he was angling for a father's day watch. Unfortunately, from there, S5 decided to compete for a spot on Supernanny... or whatever that show is where they come in and tell you your kid is a brat and it's all your fault. I survived, though.
Over the last month, I've cut off nearly all contact with ExCautious other than to ask about S5 stuff (field trip, talent show, and graduation coming up). ExCautious pretty much took it in stride, not showing any outward signs of dissatisfaction.
That may have changed Friday night, but I can't be sure. You see, Thursday, as I was viewing my facebook (where exCautious has ignored my friend request and I never unsubmitted it), it showed that ExCautious had added a girl to his facebook friends. Long story short, I know the girl and pretty much everything there is to know about her. Somehow, Friday, I decided to throw an accusation his way about his involvement with her. I'm not sure where the conversation went that made me feel vengeful, but I did it. I didn't lie about anything, and the matter was quickly dropped. I really don't care if he's involved with her or not, it was more of a defensive move, if I recall correctly.
Anyhow, our conversations, when they are lengthy, are rocky at best at this point. And, once we were inside discussing things about S5, I decided to part ways with ExCautious with one more stab: "We're not friends, ExCautious. It has become painfully obvious that is not what you want. Emphasis on the painful. I've tried being your friend, then I tried being civil, then I tried being completely uninvolved. You always want something different from me, and I'm not going to be a part of your stupid games anymore. I'll live up to the ridiculous contract you drew up and called our divorce, but nothing more and nothing less." And then I left. Didn't talk to him all weekend until Sunday morning to tell him thank you - and, despite the fact that you have all warned me against this - I felt he deserved a hug for putting the effort into making my day special.
I felt so special, in fact, that I had the gall to call him that afternoon and ask him if he would like to grill some steaks at the park. He declined and stated he was fishing with his cousin. I didn't push the issue, though I'm sure I could have made steaks for four and had a generally good time.
To corrupt this story more, I will admit that I had a date Friday night. To thinly veil his identity, I'll say nothing more than he's a public service worker - of a group that has a reputation for being especially attractive (which he lived up to that reputation). It wasn't an unpleasant date, but I still don't know him very well and I'm living up to my screen name. Cautious. I'm not going to go out and say that he's the one, I'm going to marry him, etc. etc., I simply felt it necessary to include this information to provide a full background to my next topic.
I talked about ExCautious a lot during the date. Date was divorced, also, and spoke a lot about ExDate. Pretty even match. However, sometimes, I get this nagging feeling I'm cheating on ExCautious, possibly due to the fact that this is the one area of my life I am not completely truthful with him. In addition, when I start to have any interest in moving on (such as a guy asks me out on a date or I meet a guy I'd like to know better), ExCautious starts to show a great deal of interest in me again, like the mother's day gifts I recieved this morning. Now, I'm not thinking of doing anything crazy like going back to trying to get him back. There needs to be a whole lot of talking and changing for ExCautious and I to have even a slim chance of giving it another go. It just starts tugging on that corner of my heart that he still holds. Regrettably, it's a large portion of my heart. I've heard from others that this is normal, and that sometimes it goes away, and sometimes it never does. I'm not sure how I'd feel either way - after all, ExCautious has been a huge part of my life... over half of it. He's part of my past and has largely had a part in shaping me into who I am today. I know I would be different if I had never loved him, and I know I'm not completely over him. I don't think that dating at this point (5 months divorced, over a year living separated) is a criminal act - after all, a lot of people started dating before the divorce was filed. I'm trying to take things slow in the dating process, but I wonder even if I find some kind of magical "love of my life", would it seem in some way second best?
Just what's on my mind these days.
((Cautious))
Honey you will most likely never be over him. It's normal. Just like you, half my life was with her and she will always be a part of me even if I find another love. At least I will be honest about it. But I can love another.
Yeah had a date as well. Nothing serious. She was also divorced.
Us "dates" tend to always talk about the "ex-dates". She did as well. It comes naturally because being married to X is all of our history and all we knew. Otherwise we would be talking about the weather or our jobs. At least the drama is interesting.
I am glad to see you back Cautious but was hoping it would be for better reasons.
Sadly I recently confirmed that my XW has been having an emotional affair (and maybe PA) for quite some time, even before the bomb so I am still dealing with this emotionally. Just when I got used to the idea of being divorced I get bomb #2. Only thing that will save me is detaching but Im having a hard time of it.
I hope your sitch gets better. At least you have hope. All I have is an usure future ahead of me.
I hope you date more. Being with another woman seems to be the only thing that takes my X off my mind 100%. Sad but true. But I am dating for the right reason. Companionship, friendship and honesty etc.
Good luck.