Divorcebusting.com
So, for some reason I have been struggling again so I decided to jump back on the forums.
Ex and I email each other once a day and talk about logistics of our 2 kids. Occasionally we tell cute stories about our kids and exchange photos.
We send hugs to each other sometimes as well. We hug each other sometimes when we see each other. Ex W knows I love her and miss her.

Our kids are doing well. I do everything with my kids but I miss them like you can't believe.

I struggle as ex W and I are nice to each other, caring, and kind. I just wish she would step over the line but she is 100% moving forward in her life.
She tells me she loves me but has no romantic interest in me and that I need to move on.

Anyway, just struggling a bit again.

I just miss my family so much.
I know exactly how you feel! I am struggling too. I miss my family being whole everyday. I have my kids pretty much 100% of the time, as XH lives 700 miles away, so it isn't my kids I miss, I miss my H!

I have been on the "mid-life crisis" board for awhile. I know he was/is in mlc, but now that OW is gone I can't help but want him to want to come back home and be with us again. He knows I still love him and we talk more now than we have since all this started. He told me he still loves me, never said not romanticly, but doesn't indicate he wants to pursure a relationship like that. He did say the other day when I asked him why he wouldn't want to do that "I'm just not 100% sure we are compatible, yet". Like he is working on figuring out if we are and will then do something if he moves in that direction.

But, I know he is going out all the time and I fear he will just meet someone else and think it is easier with them. I have told him that it won't be easier cause I know his needs now and am willing to meet them, and with someone new it will be a lot of work. Also, with someone else he won't have his kids in his life much at all. I get so upset and distraught when I know he is out with people, mainly cause I know a woman is after him big time. I don't let on to him that I care he is out and I never get upset about stuff like that while talking to him. I have learned patience like I never knew.

We are suppose to take the kids on Spring Break together the end of March, he is checking with work this week and should give me a final answer by Friday. I just want the strength to go on this trip, have a good time, not have any serious talks and show him how much fun we can have and do have together.

I just wanted you to know that there are others out there struggling with similar things as you are, wanting your family together! I just don't understand why any parent would want anything but a whole family for their children. I hate divorce and I hate that our society has made it so easy and acceptable. I was meant to be a wife in the 1950's I think! Hang in there and just keep doing what you are doing all while "GAL" for yourself.

A
yep, there it is.
You are feeling the same as I do, and many of us on here.
Augtan I am so sorry you are feeling what you are. I too should have been born in the 50's.
There really is no answer here for any of us. We just continue on doing the best we can.

Everyday this hangs over my head and I know that will never go away. My parents divorced when I was 5, so I know what is ahead for my kids. My EW thinks everything is fine and she is always justifing our situation as just something different.

My EW is very attractive and from an affluent family.
As she has said she does not need me for anything.

This past weekend was family day, which is a public holiday here in Ontario. EW took our 2 kids on a skiing trip to Alberta with her sister and their family. She did contact me a few times about how our kids were doing.

I am starting to build up some resentment.
I am starting to get to the point to where if this is her decision then she can go and live it.
She never once tried to work on anything with me. She just left one day. Sure I did things that were not ideal but not stuff to destroy a family over.

In some ways I wish I had the strength to just tell my EW to hit the road and have no contact with her. I try to distance myself but just keep getting sucked back in.
I have a lot of resentment I try to release everyday by thinking there is nothing I can do about him or what he does. I read a poem type thing called "Letting Go" I got from livestrong.com.

I am raising our three kids alone, was a stay at home mom for 15 years so this is really hard for me to juggle a full time job, house and all this kids stuff alone. I moved 700 miles away to have job that would pay me something worth working for (we have a family company here).

I resent that he is living better than we are, he does whatever he wants whenever he wants, my expenses are crazy and my parents have to help me (my XH knew they would help me that is one of the reasons he knew he could get away with what he did), I hate where we live and so do my kids but I have no choice right now. We are going to have to either move again to a cheaper state or move to a smaller place over the summer.

Don't get me wrong, he helps as much as he can and pays child support on time with no issues.

I get the resentment part a lot. I also deal with wondering how he justifies what he has done to us in his mind. He is in MLC so I know he just doesn't get it, but he was so the opposite of this for 20 years. It is so hard to watch! My kids had a great Dad and now none at all really. I just want him to realize what he is missing. I know our marriage wasn't even close to perfect, I did a lot of things too. But, I wanted to work on them and improve myself while making my marriage a priority that it should be. He wanted to do it too at first, then he brought the OW back into our world (I didn't know it!) and that is when he decided (with her help!) that our marriage wasn't worth saving and left. I can't seem to get through to him that with the OW in our marriage there is no way he could have seen anything clearly. Now that OW is gone, I wish he would just give us the chance we deserved, now that he can see things since she is out of the picture completely.

I was doing so good before him and OW broke up. Although I prayed and prayed for this to happen, it is hard now, cause I keep wanting him to want to come home. Whereas before when she was with him, I knew that wasn't going to happen at all, now it is a possibility and I am making myself crazy wondering what he is doing, who he is with and if he will meet someone else before giving us a chance.

I have decided to just leave him alone...again. If he tells me on Friday that he is going to come on the trip with us, then I really plan to just ride it out till then, if he doesn't come with us, I have no idea what my plan of action will be. I guess the same, cause what more can I do?

I am the first person in my family (both sides) to ever get divorced!! So, I hate having to imagine what it is going to be like for my kids for the rest of their lives. I am sorry about your parents! Your kids are sooo young too and so were you! I really feel for you and know your pain. I was doing so good, I hate how I feel now and am trying so hard to get out of this funk!! I know the weather here doesn't help me at all, I lived in the South for 10 years so this constant snow is making me crazy! Hang in there, have you tried dating at all?

A
Ahhhh yes, I too share so much of your story.
I do everything with my kids as a single dad. When I have the kids I wish my EW was with us. I send her photos of all the activities I do with the kids.

I too was doing better until recently. I had been keeping it pretty professional between us. I found that some of my anger had demished so I started acting loving towards her. Sometimes she was even caring back. That is when the problems started to come up. I guess I wanted more and started to have expectations. Whenever I did that she would go cold.

My kids are doing really well. The truth is sometimes they actually like the situation. They realize that they lead different lives with each of their parents and they appreciate
that. My 7 year old daughter likes that she lives in 2 different houses. My 5 year son does not even remember mommy and daddy being together.

I can't even imagine how tough it must be for you to have your husband still interacting with your family but not interested in working on your marriage.
At least my EW stays out of our lives.

No I have not started dating. I just can't seem to have any interest in that. Maybe my selfworth has taken a big hit.
My favorite date is to go out alone with my daughter.

I too look back on my EW and rember the person I fell in love with. She is no longer that person.

Well, we go day by day now and all support each other anyway we can.
I have read so many books since all of this has happened. I end up helping all my friends now with relationships and being a parent.
I wish I could apply that knowledge to my own relationship. The truth is my EX just does not "see" any of it.
Posted By: g450 Re: 2 years later it's still not getting easier - 02/21/10 01:00 AM
Ouch, two years?

I have only been divorced two weeks and separated for 3 months. I would hate to feel the same way two years from now. That scares me. Why? Because I am still in love with my XW.

She knows this but keeps trying to convince me that I need to move on (hate that term!) and that she is never going to come back to me. She is trying to do me a favor and even went dark on me since I have a hard time doing it on my own. Im still having a hard time detaching.

She is right but its still hard to get past my emotions some days but getting better.

I only have one Son and he is grown and has his own life so I am basically alone now. I still talk to my XW on occasion and even see her once in a while and it still hurts like hell when I see her.

Thought about dating and honestly think I could pull it off and not do it for the wrong reasons but I am discovering that the dating pool water is a little cold when it comes to 47yr old ex married guys. Seems I am invisible. Perhaps there are too many 20yr old Viagra adicted Playas out there snatching up all the women my age? LOL, who the hell knows?

Not crazy about dating but what other option do I have? I dont want to spend what is left of my life alone and Im not getting any younger. I feel like my emotions are between a rock and a hard place. XW doesnt want me and dating is a double edged sword.

Anyway sorry for the hijack and rant. Ill follow this thread as it interests me. I just pray I do not post the same misery here two years from now. Wish me luck.
g450,
Well your situation is "a bit" different than mine. I have 2 little kids so that seems to keep me tied to my EW. She and I email daily.

I don't know what to say to you that has not been already said a million times on these boards. You just have to live day by day and who knows what happens.

I just can't seem to effect my outcome at all.

Ya, dating holds not interest for me. I have my hands full with 2 little kids. Sure it would be great to have someone around but it would just be too much for me.
There seems to be many of us stuck in this boat. My WAW announced almost two years ago that she was done with the marriage and wanted a divorce. I fought like hell to try and save the marriage and with the help of the state I live (requires a full 1 year separation before you can even file for divorce) have delayed the divorce so far. She moved out about 5 months ago. When she moved out she made it clear to me that she had no interest in remaining married to me, so I tried to "move on" recognizing that all of my actions so far had made no positive impact. I had no problem finding someone to date who obviously likes me a lot, however it just hasn't felt right - I am clearly not ready. Now I feel bad for this person that I have been going out with.

Too make matters even more confusing, my WAS lately has started giving me conflicting messages about her resolve to get a divorce, i.e. increased affection (lingering hugs and a couple of kisses.) Recently I sent her an email asking her if she was having second thoughts and got no response back, other than a bit of distance initially, but now she is back to giving mixed signals.

Because we have two school age girls that we share responsibility in getting to school each day, we see each other on a daily occasion. These interactions are always friendly. We co-parent extremely well and our girls have adjusted completely to our separation. My problem is I am tired of limbo and do want to move on one way or the other - however with the mixed signals I still don't want to miss out on an opportunity to put this family back together. Sorry for the rant and ramble - and hijack. Just wanted to let you know you are definitely not alone.

BA
That is exactly my situation. EW and I get along so well. We hug each other when we see each other and send hugs in emails to each other. WTF why can't they wake up !!

I am just the same as you I want something to happen. Either I am ready to move on or my EW does something.

Blahhhhhhhh !!!!!
Hello Canada,

Been two years for me too. Two years this week in fact. I would have been married 15 years this week as well. Two important dates in the same week.

It sucks.

My Ex also tries hard to be nice. Like she never did anything to hurt me or my kids. Hard to understand, I know.

You are not alone but that is of little comfort.

I would suggest that you start to let go. No more hugs and such. Limit the emails as much as you can. You continue to be her "safety net". She knows you are there "just in case" her new life falls short plus you ease her guilt about breaking up the family. I would go dark - at least it will not hurt as much or give you false hope. And it may cause her to think ....

Just a thought. Live for you now.

But it is hard - hard to follow my own advice smile
Hi Jeff,

Sorry to hear you are in a similar spot.

Yep, the hugs and the email were really taking their tole on me.
Even in the last few days I have started to pull back. It has been
much better for me. The problem is when I go dark she comes around and is all "warm and fuzzy". I am sure it's just a bit of guilt on her part.
At no time whatsoever has she ever felt she did anything wrong or that this has any negative effect on me or our kids.

Anyway, thanks for the email as I really needed to hear that.
Now my EW is basically ignoring my emails ????
2 weeks ago she was all warm and fuzzy and now totally cold.
She sent me a photo of our daughter and I wrote her back about it and some stuff I was up to. Nothing.....back.

Why does she even bother to send me anything?

Yes, I know 2x4 to the head to me for even worrying about her.

Yep, just get back to me and focus on my kids. My EW is off in her own world.
I think maybe you're getting too excited about the warm and fuzzies. Hard not to, right? Going dark is working!! She comes around, wants to know what you're up to, possibly feels guilty? All good signs. Now just to put a little manipulation in there. When you go dark for a while (try at least two or three missed calls from her - unless it's about children, then call back immediately! - and she starts coming around, keep the conversation casual, light, and keep the mystery alive. Don't tell her everything you're up to. Then you're putting the ball right back in her court. She knows your every move, to the point that she could "accidentally" bump into you if she wanted.

So when she says "How are you?" Just say "Good" and let her interpret what that means. When she calls, don't answer, listen to the voicemail and determine if it's important. It takes a LOT of patience to go dark, but I can see that you've had some great results. You just got too excited about those results. Remember it's baby steps here! Be vague, but not impolite. Realize that, though you want to share everything with her and want her to share everything with you, the simple truth is neither of your lives are each other's business anymore. And it's okay to say so, with tact. When you do talk on the phone, at least for now, don't talk to her longer than 2-3 minutes. Tell her you have to go because you're about to go out. Eating while on the phone gives you two power-ups: One, you sound casual because, hey, you still have your appetite and two, you're so focused on eating that you don't have time to sound panicky and desperate - unless the nerves get the best of you and you choke! So try to avoid that! Then, when you hang up, GO OUT, just like you said. I don't care if you're taking the kids to the park. The point is, the more you're at home dwelling on things, the more depressed you're going to be.

Great job and great progress, I have faith that you can keep it up!
Hello Cautious,
Thanks so much for the reply and suggestions.
I too have read your post and I am sorry you are here.

I dunno know....out of the blue last week my EX asked me if I want to come to my kids hip-hop dance class and then asked me to come out to dinner with them after.
Sure, you could look at this as baby steps....but I don't think that is the case at all. I think my EX wants us all to get along so that she has easier access to the kids when they are with me.

My EW has a completely new lifestyle now with new friends and a new cottage.

Yes, I know I am in a much better situation than many on this board.

All I can tell you is that it is not necessarily better when you are friends with your EX. In fact I find it worse, as it's like a carrot being dangled in front of you that you can't have ever.

I don't believe my EW is ever coming back. If you read these posts enough you will realize that in most cases it's the husband who left that is the one that comes back. Most WAWs never come back.

My EW is extremely attractive, outgoing and very affluent. She has everything in life that she can want. I believe having a husband is a burden to her.

On a positive note I had a great weekend with my kids. We went up north and went dogsledding. What a fantastic experience for the kids and I.
So I continue on doing all the wonderful things I do with my children and just focus on that.
It's good that you have the realization of the stats on WAW's- the more I understand the improbability of WAW coming back, the easier it is to take strides in moving forward. It is really sad though that that is the case.

The best thing to do is be the best person and dad that you can be. I'm glad that you're doing that.
I'm glad you are able to put your personal feelings aside for your children. I struggle with that on a daily basis as S5 looks exactly like X. It helps to have new experiences you can enjoy, definitely. How was dogsledding? I've never been, but it definitely looks exciting!

Being friends with the ex is dangerous territory. You have to handle it carefully if you want a reconciliation. You have to decide (and pep talk yourself) that you will not accept anything less than a long term relationship. For some, this means no ML until there's a commitment (then again, that's a female POV). For others this means refusing to listen to them talk about the OM or OW. Either way, I feel it's necessary that, until they are ready to talk about reconciliation to keep a civil R talking only about the kids and not allowing them into your private life. Be vague about your plans, but don't lie. If asked, state it simply. I definitely think this works (even for WAWs) because I've seen it in various states. The thing is, as DB put it, you have to aknowlege your responsibility to do the lion's share of work. It's all about the mystery/jealousy/chase advantage. You become more of a challenge and most people are responsive to an adventure.

I'll definitely be ready to be your cheerleader. It helps to watch everyone's small successes to keep my PMA up!

Way to go, whitney!
Hello all,

Thanks for the responses.

Cautious, dogsledding was fantastic. I do everything with my kids. I took them whitewater rafting, Miley Cyrus concerts, monster trucks, art galleries, skiing, ballet, museums, travelling etc. I expose them to everything possible. There is nothing I love more than to be with my kids experiencing life.

Right now my kids are on March break with my EX. They are at a Club Med. I have only been away from them for a day and I miss them soooo much.

My EW never have R talk and just talk about the kids. She asks about work but that is where it stops. I don't ask her about anything as it's too painful to hear all the great things in her life that I am no longer a part of.

I have done all the DB stuff. Sometimes I backslide as I miss my family so much. About 2 months ago I said to hell with all this "strategy" and just showed only love to my EW. I was very affectionate in the emails I sent her. She return the affection in many of them but then pulled back.
It seems that she mirrors back to me how I treat her. If I leave her alone she stays away. If I email her then she emails me....

Please don't read any of this and think there are baby steps here and that my EW is coming around. I think it's more about the nature of my EW. Everyone likes her and she does not like it when someone does not like her. I think she just is the way she is to makes things better for all of us in the family. I think she just wants us to all be friendly.

Ya.... not feeling so great right now.

I just miss my family.
I know exactly what you mean by mirroring...you know EW best, so you're the best judge for progress- do you have other threads I can brush up on?
Hi,
Just click on my name and it should show you other threads.
I doubt my threads will be able to help you much.
Really, all of this is in our ex's hand. They really decide how they want to treat us.
Of course we can do things to make it worse. That is where DBing comes into play.

I think if we did not have kids this would all be much easier. I just believe we are a family and you do everything you can to work it out. I never even had the discussion. She just left one day.
I know exactly what you mean by that last sentiment. Everyone wants their family together, and, in my opinion, there's no reason a relationship should ever end. The only reason they do is because people become selfish and self serving rather than working on the problems. And usually the damage is so great by the time they get help that they have no choice but to call it quits.

We just keep living the same relationships over and over again, just the scenery changes. That's why second and third marriages have such a large percentage of failure. JMHO.

And by scenery, I mean that the fights aren't EXACTLY the same (In my M, money was an issue, but I could get with a fiscally responsible person and we might fight over how to discipline my S), but there's still the same amount of conflict. Maybe in lower doses. Maybe the new person is more willing to work. But either which way, it's always the same. I'd just rather have my family all together than try to incorporate a new person into a father role to my S and have the conflicts between the two "dads" to add to my level of stress.

((whitney)) You are absolutely doing the right thing, IMO.
I am desperately trying to not relive my current R over again. And that is why I'm dead set on addressing the issues...sadly, it is not all up to me. I do fear that W will no doubt relive it, but I cannot mindread, nor predict the future. I too believe that a R should not end and that when they do, it is one party being unwilling to address the issues.

Very very sad.
I agree 100%.
I have seen it with my friends that have divorced and remarried.
They ALL say the same thing. "If I had known how hard my second marriage would have been I would have worked harder on my first marriage."
They DO just trade one set of problems for a different set.
Second marriages are not better, just different.
Unfortunately our EXs have to figure that out on their own and it's usually too late.

Hey everyone, we are all doing the best we can and should be proud that we are at least trying.

I have never been more thankful in my life than to have the two wonderful kids that I have.
All I wanted was a chance to work on my marriage of 20 years, I didn't get that, either. Sounds like for so many of us, the ex made the decision and we must go on with life. I have no kids, so maybe it will be easier to go my way? I don't know yet, our divorce should be final next week.

Our house (my dream house) is sold and I have to move in a couple of months. Not quite sure where I'm going, but I had to get out of the *prison* in hopes of moving forward. Glad I found this thread, but I hope I'm not here 2 years later.:(
Sorry to hear you are here.

We all wish we have the chance to work on our marriages.

2 years goes by really quickly.
My situation has only changed a bit for the better in the last 6 months. It has taken that long for the dust to settle and the resentment to start to dissipate. Don't get me wrong though "triggers" happen all the time.

We march on...
The difficult thing is that our marriage was good, really good for many years (probably 18 of the 20). Then, he started traveling more with hi job and I begged him to cut down on the travel. But, now he tells me he loved that part of his job...I never knew. I didn't get ANY communication and he just went along with everything until the OW came in the picture and has "masked" all the hurt and anger. It's classic MLC and I fought hard, but how long do I wait? We even went to Michelle W-D who wrote the Divorce Busting books, but I think he was just "done." Since that day back in June, I've seen my stbxh a few times and he looks terrible (gained weight, very gray, very sad). Is he really happy? I would have done anything to save my marriage given the chance; I didn't get that chance. So, I stopped trying to fight it and I've begun to look forward.

I love LOVE, I will always have LOVE, and I will find another to share that LOVE. I WILL LOVE again....
Yeh, it's a similar story for all of us. I look back at photos of my family and my EW was happy.
Then someone else came along and she decided that she really was not happy for our whole marriage and left.

My EX looks great and seems to be really happy. She is involved in everything and has not slowed down for a second. Maybe that is how she just moves forward.

Who knows with all of it.

Most people believe that eventually the WAS stops and realizes maybe it was not so bad and that the grass is not greener.

I really miss being a family. To me that is what life is all about. Anything else is a waste of the precious gift that we have been given with children.
We didn't have children, so I grieve that loss as well. He was the one who never wanted kids and, being a teacher, I got my fill of kids at work...or so I thought. Now, I feel really bittersweet about that and feel like I got that stolen away from me as well. I just need some help in dealing with the losses, so many of them!!
The exs are only doing the same thing MWD tells us to do: GAL. The busier they stay, the less time they have to regret things. And usually, that comes in the form of staying busy with the OP. It's always easier when you have someone to give you that rush of emotion. But I think everyone eventually has that moment when they realize the grass isn't always greener, either because there are massive problems in their current R or because they feel they missed out on big stuff with their children. Kind of kills me to see the position one divorced person I know is dealing with it... he wants to be back with his family, so he incorporates himself in their lives, and his ex allows him to... and they want to be together, but they're both with OP, and SHE'S getting married this summer.
Yes, it's time for me to be alone...SOLO for awhile. Time for me to work on myself and GAL. Tonite is salsa dancing, tomorrow pilates. I took a rebuilding seminar and can be as busy as I want to be, but I also want to process this pain so I can heal and move forward. Of course I contributed to the collapse of the marriage and I will be SO much better the next time around, when that time finally happens.
whitney, what are your small goals? Can I suggest some? I'm going to anyway. I think for you it's time to add some manipulation.

LISTEN twice as much as you speak. We have two ears and one mouth for a reason. Now the other half of this is that you have to REMEMBER what's said. If she has a hobby, ask about it. You can still be grey and ask about her interests. Plus it's an ego boost when someone is asking about you. She's going to see that CONSISTENTLY, you are asking about X hobby, and how it's going. Do some research about it too, so you're well informed when you speak. Ask interested questions. Then when you've really got her going about it, ZAP, end the conversation "Oh sorry, I'm out of time, I have somewhere I have to be right now". This little manipulation tactic works best when you're dropping OFF the kids, because she'll call your bluff about going somewhere if you have the kids. What appointment would you have that you're bringing the kids with?

Eventually OM is going to stop asking about hobbies. So you will have this "how was your day" thing going in your favor. Remember stuff she says from one week to the next and follow up. It'll put you into some good graces as a friend, but you're not making yourself too available. Remember, you won't settle for anything LESS than a full reconcilliation.
Cautious,
Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it.
Will definitely consider all of that.

At this point I am trying to move forward in life.
smile
Okay, okay. I'll stop... or try to. Keep me up to date on all your adventures with your children! How lucky they are!
Oh, no worries.
It's just that I am at the stage where my EW will sign her email with love and/or (hugs) but I can't get her to move forward.

Yes my kids and I are so very fortunate to experience all that we do. Whenever I meet a new lady friend they all appreciate the father I am. I only wish my EW appreciated that enough to work on reconciliation.

Each day is a new one. smile
Reading this thread also scares me. I can't imagine it being this tough for another two years. STBEW and I have no kids so I am hoping that two years from now I will have been able to forgive and forget her.

Your kids are lucky to have such a good dad Whitney. It sounds like communicating with your EW is real torture for you. I read where you said you have no interest in dating but if you did begin to see someone it might help relieve you from thinking about your EW, plus it might make her a little jealous?!

Its either a blessing or a curse but my STBEW doesn't communicate with me and I try not to communicate with her unless I have to. I hope this will ease the process of the D and my moving forward.
Hello Quart,

Thanks for posting.

Everyone is different so who knows where you will be 2 years from now.

I think having NC is the better way to go. I find that when I do have contact I feel awful afterwards.
Some days are better than others. I tend to post on my bad days, so know that I do have good days as well.

Yes, it does get better when you finally meet someone else.
MWD is right. When you have kids together divorce does not end your contact with each other. That makes moving on for some of us very difficult.
Wait! What do you mean by, "It does get better when you finally meet someone else"?? Please don't say you define your life by having a significant other. IMHO, you have to be okay with being alone and become a whole person again before even entertaining the idea of being with someone else. I spent several months searching for someone to ease the pain....only to realize that someone had to be me. Are you in the place where you are feeling really good about yourself? How are the kidlets?

Just my opinion....
Thanks for the post.

Everyone is different. For me I really enjoy experiencing things with others.
My EX was my ideal companion. We did all our activities together.
For me I am much happier sharing my life with someone.

Last year I treked to the basecamp of Mt. Everest alone.
I would have much prefered to do it with someone I liked.

Had a great week with my kids. We skied, went to museums, maple syrup festival, and cooked many great meals together.
As great as it was I wished that my EW was with us. Family is important to me.

I totally understand and I am the same way, I enjoy experiencing with others. For me, I know I will have that again and it will be even better. Yes, sharing experiences with someone you love is the best.

In 2003 I trekked to Annapurna South Base Camp with some fellow teachers. In 2005 I taught English In Romania and in 2006 I volunteered in an orphanage in Peru. I experienced all of this without my stbxh and that won't happen again. This was supposed to be the summer I headed to Tanzania and Kilimanjaro, but that ain't happening. Someday....

Glad to hear you had some great time with your kids and I'm sure they loved the time with you.
Whitney..you still out there? I think I like to punish myself! I am losing it! We went on spring break as a family, my XH came too. It was very up and down, we spent time talking about everything..he still isn't ready to come home and won't consider dating me long-distance. We slept together a few times, the last time was incredible and unforgetable! But, then I went back home and to him it was like nothing ever happened. He refused to recognize we were together to his friends, says that he is actively dating and everyone knows everyone and it wouldn't look good for him to have gone on Spring Break with his XW!!

I was devestated that he just denied our trip and wanted to pretend it never happened, so I got very upset, we had it out, and now are basiclly not talking at all. I told him before the blow up that if by December, he had gotton his s**t together and wanted to make our family whole again, I would move back down there. Then, the blow up, and I told him that was off the table.

I have pretty much gone dark gray on him, can't go completely black due to the kids. He seems to like living his life like he is 21 again. Goes out almost every night, always on the weekends, gets drunk. One of my friends who hangs in his same group said she was out at the same bar as him on Friday night and he just sat at the table drinking, didn't try to hit on women or anything. But, I figure he is dating someone and she had her kid(s) and couldn't go out.

He is coming up here to see the kids in a few weeks and then again in a few weeks after that. I really think I have come to a place where I don't want him back anymore. He is just sooo messed up and not the person I married at all. I can't seem to get him to see what really matters in life and I just need to leave him alone completely, which I truly have never done.

If he is happy living like this then that is his deal. I cannot imagine meeting a 43 yr. old man who lives with another man, acts and drinks like he is 21, let his wife and kids move 700 miles away and didn't care, let his house go to shortsale, cheated on his wife of 18 years, etc and want to date him. But, if some desperate woman thinks she can change him and that their love is so much better and different that he won't do it to her..then she can go for it!

I just hate being divorced and being alone. Thought I found a good guy, but he turned out to be a user too. I am done looking..they say "you don't find love, love finds you". But, if I barely leave my house cause I am raising three kids alone, how is love gonna find me?

A
Yep, I am still here.
Ahhhh my heart goes out to you.
I hear your pain 100%.
Your husband sounds like a classic MLC and as you know you can't do anything
to change that.

I too have spent a couple of outings with my ex wife and our kids. I had the best time BUT was left completly empty and hurt afterwards.

About a month ago I stopped initiating contact with my ex.

I will tell you it has helped 100%. I don't obsess about her as much anymore.
She does contact me every few days about the kids. Sometimes she tries to spark
up conversation but I keep it professional just about the kids. This is one of the hardest
things I have ever had to do. Of course I want to talk to her and spend time together BUT every time I go there it gets me nowhere. In fact it just brings more pain.
So for me having no contact has really helped.

I feel exactly how you do about going out etc. I have 2 kids.
Divorce is awfull.

Sorry for all the spelling issues. I am trying to post off my iPhone and it won't let me go back and correct anything. Arrrg

Hope this helped a bit
up a conversation but I don't bite. I
Thanks Whitney! Glad you are still on here! I mean, I wish none of us were here but, you know what I mean!! Lol!

I think.. had I not allowed the sex to happen, I would have not felt so empty and sad, but I know I would have been somewhat that way, regardless!

I have not had any contact with him at all for 4 days now! I know that doesn't sound like long, but since the OW has been gone that is a long time for us! We haven't even texted or emailed about the kids! I can't even stalk him on facebook anymore cause my D changed her password so I can't see his page anymore thru her! I know that sounds nuts, but he is obsessed with facebook and I could keep tabs on him that way. Each day that I know nothing about him, it gets easier and easier. So, good for you that you have been doing it for a month, you are doing great, keep it up! I think you are 100% right that it makes it easier

You have helped me a lot! Wish you were closer and we could get together to vent...there are lots of us out there but hard to find, sometimes I think we should wear a "scarlet letter" of sorts, so we could spot each other and be there for support!

How did you get thru your 1 yr anniversay of the D? Mine is coming up in a few days, so not looking forward to it at all, not an anniversary I ever thought I would experience!!

A
Hi there,

Glad I can help anyone out !

I know exactly what you mean when you talk of making it 4 days. In the last 2.5 years I have never gone more than about 4 days. Like I said it's been about a month of me not initiating but we still have contact. My ex has tried to be a bit chatty but I usually just kill the conversation. I don't know if I am doing the right thing. What I do know is my ex is never coming back. There really is no reason for her to do so. She leads a very charmed life with anything she wants afforded to her.

I miss my 2 little kids like you can't believe.

As much as I would love to be intimate with my ex right now I can't possible imagine the pain and emptiness that would bring after. So, I feel for you.

I have to see my ex on Saturday at my kids school fair. Not looking forward to that as I will also be surrounded by all the other parents that we are both friends with.

My ex contacted me a few days ago and asked my how I was. I could not even answer her so I just answered about a kid issue that was also in the email. After I responded to the kid question she emailed me again and asked "if I was good?" I wanted to scream NO I am not good our family is destroyed and I miss everyone....but I didn't. I just said I am good, thanks. She wrote back "glad to hear". It's like she has no idea of any of this.

Ya, try not to look at anything like Facebook etc. I used to torture myself with that stuff. It's not worth it. My ex has also been in the paper and magazines as she is very social. frown

To tell you the truth the whole divorce papers etc. did not bother me so much as I was in denial that all of this was even happening. I really thought she was going to wake up and we would be a family again. Unfortunately I now know that is never going to happen.

I too am really bitter now. From what I understand I am entering the last stages of the grief process. Hopefully I will be able to let go soon.

Ya, my friends and family don't really want to hear about it all anymore so I do wish there were people around to talk to.

So many of us survivors are uncomfortable about saying that we lead lonely lives now. When I don't have my kids I just walk around in a fog trying to fill my time.

A few weeks ago I got an text from my ex on a weekend she had the kids. She wrote "I hope you are having a nice weekend". She meant it in a positive way. Can you imagine??? I ended up writing her back saying yes my weekend was going ok but it would be much better if I was with my family. She never responded.

Sorry I am venting as I am feeling really down right now....I don't have my kids tonight.
To tell you the truth I am just feeling overwhelmed.
I hear you Whitney.

1 1/2 years for me. My wife just emailed me tonight saying she was going to hire a new attorney because this was taking too long.

Jesus, this has been a nightmare. The loneliness is incredible. I wish I could drown it all out with another woman but I am simply not interested. I cannot foresee when I ever will and that is scary.

I miss my kids too. A man NEEDS his family to be whole. It gives him purpose in life and a reason to give it his all.

May God help us.
TulsaTime,

I am so sorry.
When I read your post my heart just sank as that is EXACTLY how I feel.

I am not interested in any other women either, not at all.

I agree that our family gives us purpose.

I just think that we have only one life to live. One time on this earth with the most precious gift of our children. Once they are grown we don't get that time back.

We will all get through this somehow.
Whitney, how did it go on Sat.? I am now 7 days with no contact but an email he sent regarding the taxes and I only replied "ok", don't think I have ever done that! It is hard to sit here at work cause I am logged into IM and so is he, but I resist and make no contact at all, even about the kids!

I am coming closer and closer to realizing that although I wish I could have my life back, my family whole, etc. it would never be the same if I did! He is not the same person and is still in MLC big time, it's just that now the OW is gone. I thought when the OW dumped him, he would snap out of all this and want to come home. Not the case.

It hurts that he can act like our trip never happened and all that went with it, and is just off dating and doing his thing again without a thought to me or the kids. But, that is who he is now and I have to find a way to accept it and keep moving forward. He is one man in this world an although he was suppose to be my man and my husband forever, he isn't anymore. He seems fine with it, so why can't I be?

I agree about the time with the kids and all. I have tried to get this across to my ex, that he is missing so much with the kids for no reason! He just doesn't care! He enjoys living like a 21 yr. old now, but one day he will regret it all! I don't know how he couldn't, it might not be until he is on his death bed, but I can't save him. I am seeing my kids grow up each and everyday! I am sad cause my D17 is going to live with him for her senior year. But, I want her to be happy and be with her friends that he forced us to leave behind when he did all this to us. My kids should have never had to give up anything because of his choices, but they have had to give up the most and he could careless. I don't want a man who can watch his kids be miserable and suffer because of him thinking he deserves to be "happy" more than they do! What kind of father is that? He has sat back and watched their whole life have to change for one reason, cause he wanted to be with a that ho and live in a fantasy world with her instead of reality with us. Where is she now? No where to be found, but I'm still here holding on to a shell of a man from 700 miles away! Something is wrong with me!

I have such hate for him right now, but I contiue to pray for the hate to end again. I move close to forgiveness and then something happens to bring back the hate! Oh well, I could go on and on!

Fill me in on what has happened with you!

A
Thanks sooo much for thinking about me and my day on Saturday.

Ahhhh..I too have been dealing with the emotional roller coaster. Lately I have been really bitter. I tried so hard to be happy when I saw my ex and I was. Then I started to get resentful watching her interacting with all the other parents. She is very happy now. I overheard her telling one of the parents all the stuff our daughter is into now and all that she does with our daughter. It's like I have been completely erased.

At one point I was watching my son play a game and my ex came over and stood next to me and watched. I wanted to tell her "why are you standing here when you are not wanted here" but I didn't.

I could tell my ex was picking up my coldness and then she started to get cold to me. At the end she said bye to each of my kids and turned and walked away. Did not say bye to me. I felt like yelling you #X@!!! you were the one that abandoned our marriage and destroyed our family, how dare you give me attitude.

Now, on a positive note. I saw a very attractive mother at the fair. I asked my 7 year old daughter who that was. My cute daughter said "daddy, that's Cole's mom and Cole does not have a daddy, you should go over and say hi to her".
So... I got up all the courage I could and went over and introduced myself and told her what my daughter said.
So......hmmmm....I kind of like this woman. This is the first time in over 2.5 years I have felt anything for anyone else.

Damn, my ex just called and I let it go to voicemail. She asked that I give her a call.
I am NOT going to. I will send her an email in a few hours.
Not very happy right now !!!

[censored], she is calling again !!!!!
Good for you Augtan, with the NC, and responding just with business tones.
Prepare for him not liking the new you and your aloofness. This is good for our exes to feel what it is like that we are not hanging on their ever whim.

I know we would love it to all work out but it's time for us to to focus our energy where it is reciprocated and appreciated, period.
If they can't at least cross the line to us then it's not worth all the heartache.

Try to stay strong. I have "almost" contacted her a couple of times but did not and felt much better the next day.

I would suggest you get another IM account and let your friends know. You ex can email you.
My ex and I used to Skype and IM and I started to expect it. That's when I started to get hurt that she didn't contact me. Now I don't ever IM or Skype her.

It's all part of detaching.
Even 7 year old want's me to get a nice girlfriend !!!!

Whitney,
Are you in the alt?
I have heard about that but I am not there ?
Should I be?

Well, I just found out why my ex was calling.
She was calling to tell me the cottage that I spent 2000 hours building has been sold.
So I now have no where to take my kids.
They are going to be crushed.

frown
Wow! They just don't get it at all! Today, my divorce has been final for 1 year! Probably the best anniversay he has ever had! Still no contact! I am getting angrier and angrier today! We have no money and I got totally screwed in the divorce! I am getting bitter that he is just living it up while I can't even pay the water bill. In the divorce he was to make the house payment, well.. once it was final he let the house go to foreclosure, my name was on the house too, so my credit was ruined. Now I can't make the car payment that is in his name and he has the nerve to send me an email saying that it isn't fair for me to ruin his credit by no paying the car payment and that I agreed to do it in the divorce and that it isn't his problem that I can't make the payment! I about levitated out of my chair...!! He can do whatever he wants, but when I am just trying to survive, I am the bad one!! Amazing!

I am sorry your encounter didn't go well! But, awesome about the new lady! So cute of your daughter. My kids tell me all the time they want me to be happy and that their Dad doesn't deserve to be happy! I hope you ask that woman out, you deserve so much better than such a cold woman! GO FOR IT, what do you have to lose?

My ex comes up here in a week!! I had told him he could stay with us, but now that is off the table. Not sure if he is aware of that or not, but since he doesn't speak to me, IM me, or email me..I assume he knows! I just wonder if he has even given my kids any money to get me something for Mother's Day this Sunday? Doubt it!

Well, keep me posted on the new love interest! I have one, but he lives where I use to live, we never get to see each other. So, I am still looking for someone more local at least to date sometimes for something to do!

A
Hi Augtan,

I am just at a loss today.
Now that my cottage has been sold from under me all my hope and dreams for me and my kids have been taken away. I told my daughter this morning the cottage has been sold. I tried but I could not hold back the tears.

It's probably not a good idea for you or for the kids for your ex to stay with you.
I believe it gives the kids false hopes and hurts them in the end. It would also be too hard on you.

Sorry, don't feel like writing anything today.
frown
Hey Whitney! So sorry you had such a rough day yesterday!

Do you live in the cottage or is it a vacation place? Why did she sell it? It is okay to cry, you are a real person and your kids need to know that you have feelings too.

Any update on the new woman?

I know what you mean about him staying with us, but when I told him he could, we were moving in a certain direction, not really back together, but it was on the table. When it was going good, right before the blow-up, I had told him that I wanted him to date and such so that he could realize that it isn't so great out there like he thinks it is and that we really do belong together. I told him that he had until December to figure it out and if he wanted his family back we would move back down there in December. It was not a ultimatium or anything, just information, he could take or leave it. I set that deadline because it is the end of the first semester for high school and my son is going to be a freshman in the Fall, he wants to stay here and play football, so when that is over we could move back down there. But, then all the s**t hit the fan and all of that is off the table as far as I am concerned. It has been a very up and down situation since the OW dumped him in Jan. I have seen glimpes of my H a lot, and was getting my hopes up! Now, I have no expectations at all and am going forward like he is non-exsistant. He took advantage of my love for him over and over! I just can't be a doormat anymore!

Well, I hope today is a better day for you! Each day with no contact gets easier and better for me! But, I am lucky cause he lives so far away, I don't have to see him or run into him.

A
The cottage was a vacation place that my ex and I built.
When she left her parents started construction on another cottage for her, right next to theirs (on another lake).
I was able to use the cottage I built until it was sold, so now it is sold.

Sounds like you are doing all the right stuff. Detach, no expectations etc.
Watch the ultimatums as I understand that is a no-no.

So I have been thinking a lot about the woman I met. She has two kids. I am not sure I could handle 4 kids at all. I am thinking it's best for me not to get involved with her.

Being divorced sucks. EVERYTHING becomes so difficult.
I just don't see any happy ending for anyone that is divorced. In fact, in most cases it becomes more difficult. I guess I have this view as I am on the "dumped end". I am pretty sure my ex thinks everything could not be better. For her she has everything she could want in life without the burden of me.

I am feeling ok, but I want to lash out so badly to my ex and my in-laws.
I HAVE to take the high road and not say anything. Saying anything is not going to change a damn thing.

I almost sent my ex a note last night. I was so sad about the cottage being sold. It was our dream place and it is so important to our children. I just felt like reaching out to her, but I did not.
I am being really cold to her right now. I am sure she will view this as how awful I am.

We should not worry about our exes and just try to cope and forge ahead.
Hey, you are so right about not worrying about them adn doing our own thing!

I did finally have an IM conversation with XH yesterday, completely initiated by him! It was a good one! I am doing all I can not to say a word about anything dramatic! Today he sent me a few emails and told me he was praying for my Mom, who is very sick! It took everything out of me not to reply with "praying? since when do you ever pray, and if you had started doing that 3 years ago we wouldn't be where we are now" But, instead I said "Thanks for praying for my Mom" Which was/is the only Mom he has ever had, his died when he was 8 yrs. old. And, my Mom is the best Mom ever and always treated him like a son! My Dad is the same way! Whatever!

I think you should at least date that woman, just dating someone and having fun doesn't mean you are marrying them and having to take on their kids!! You deserve some fun and company of a nice woman! Go for it! Don't think so much!! LOL!!

Sorry about the cottage, why did it HAVE to be sold? Sounds like they could afford both so your kids would have that one to go to with you! People are so selfish and have no clue what they are doing to other people!

A
That is an interesting development.
You handled it great. Just remember DB. Be kind, not needy and cool.
Also expect him to pull back. They typically poke around, get close and then pull away. If you know that might happen then you will be able to handle it.
Remember no expectations. smile

I may ask the woman out.

As far as the cottage .... Yep, I agree. The inlaws have more money than you can possibly imagine. They could have kept it in the family so easily.

So, tomorrow is another day.
((whitney))!! Sorry your cottage was sold, I know it probably held many memories for you with your children.

I hope that things begin to look brighter, even if one day at a time.
Thanks so much Cautious.

This whole thing has given me new feelings of anger towards my ex.
I had been so kind and loving to her for the last 2 years.

I now have NC with her and when she contacts me I am just "to the point" with my responses. I can see she is not happy with that.
I think this is for the best.
Need some help.
My ex suggested that we all go out for dinner on Friday night. (my 2 kids and her).
I said yes.

How do I make sure this is a good experience?
We have done this a few times.

I don't want to do it if it's just her way of smoothing things over between her and I.
I just don't want to do it if it's her ways of softening her guilt of the situation.

I was the one that suggested it would be nice if she was with the kids and I when we do stuff. That is when she said she would love to do things with the kids and I.

Of course I know not to do and R talk.

Suggestions from anyone that has been here...
Whitney,

I haven't been on here in awhile, because my ex was in town, staying at my house, really playing house!! It was like we were a whole family again for the 4 days he was here. And, for the first time in over 2 years, there was no R talk at all, none. We got along and had a good time. I did make a mistake and when he was upstairs watching a movie, looked in his computer, thought he was sending pics of our kids to a woman and told him I didn't want him to do that, but turns out it was sending them to his facebook. He really didn't get that upset, I told him I was sorry, and that I was a snoop before this mess and am still but working on not being. Everything was fine. Night before last (his last night here), he came in my bed and slept with me snuggling and other stuff. But, totally initiated by him. That wasn't the first time we were "together" while he was here, but it was the first time we actually slept and cuddled all night. I have no idea what he is thinking or doing, and I'm not asking. I think that is making him even more curious about me. My son mentioned that we might move back down there, and ex's face lit up and looked at me, I said that we are not going to move back down there that there is no reason to do that now. Ex just said "oh". I am hoping some seeds have been planted and that he will really start thinking about everything instead of going back into the "tunnel" when he gets back down there today. He did call me from the hotel when he got there last night and we just talked about stuff like we use to when he would go out of town. And, like you, I am the one ending the conversations and saying I have to go, etc.

If I were you I would go to dinner and pretend there is no reason to be upset with her, smile, have a good time with the kids. If you can do that, do it, if you can't then don't go at all. At work yesterday, ex and I talked on the IM about some money stuff, I got upset and said a few things, then said I had to go and signed off. A little while later, he texted me and asked if I wanted to join him and the kids for pizza before he left. I said I did. But I wasn't sure if I could handle it, thought I might have reached my limit (didn't tell him that, just said I would be there), but I went. I walked in with a smile, said hello to everyone, asked about their day, etc. It was so easy to do, and I had no idea it would be. I was so proud of myself. When he left I asked for a hug, shouldn't have, he gave me a half hug. I know he is scared sh**less of what he is thinking and feeling. One minute he is drawn to me and wants to be with us and the next he has no idea what he wants. You have no idea what your ex is really thinking! And, you have no idea when it is going to "click" with her and she is going to realize what really matters in life. I say, go if you can be a happy, fun, desirable person, not for her, but because that is who you are!!

A
Wow,
That all sounds like decent news. Sounds like you are handling it great and keeping expectations in check.

It's funny, I have wanted my ex and I and the kids to do stuff all together for so long...... and now I am luke warm.
We are going to dinner which is an awkward situation in general. We will try to have small talk but that's about it.
I guess I wished it would have come about in a different way. I was hoping that she would have contacted me and asked to go out.
Really what happened is that I suggested last week it would be nice if we were doing stuff together to which she replied she would love to.

I just have waves of different emotions roll over me. One minute I can't wait to see her, although I can be all over her. The next minute I feel I am getting used to being a single parent and her being at dinner will add nothing.

I know what I really want.... I really just want to know wtf she is thinking? Why does she even want to come out with us? Is it me she wants to see or does she just want to see how I am with the kids.
This is causing all the fear in me. I just want to know why she even wants to come out with us.
My "gut" says she is just trying to smooth things over so we can all be great co-parents and both be a part of our kids lives.
The problem for me is that I am a really good dad and do everything with my kids already.
Sadly, I don't really feel like just allowing her to be able to drop in or out whenever she feels like it.

Arrrg..
Hi everyone,

Just hoped over to this forum to get some hope, and boy am I getting it!

It has been 18 months since my bomb hit and thought it was way too long for H to ever want to come home.

If anyone gets a chance can you please advise me on how you got to the point you are at?

I want to save my M and get my family back together as a whole again.
Well....you have to do all the DB stuff.
Get a life, have a positive attitude and then decide if you can handle contact or not.
Some people go with no contact and that helps them. It really helped me !
No relationship talk. Don't be needy.

Just hope that your H wakes up and misses you but don't wait for it.
You have to go on living and do that best you can.
It's a hard journey and we all know how you feel.
Come to the boards for support.
I've messed up so much on the DB stuff. He would push my buttons and I would give it right back.
I'm still very depressed, on AD's that he was on for 12yrs. and stopped taking them. That's when all of this started.

I just started the no contact thing again. Made mistakes because we had relations in Nov and then just in March and brought up dating and he said that Sundays weren't good for him because of his work schedule change. I just said ok. Let me know. BIG mistake. He went right back into tunnel.

I at least want us to get along for the kids sake, for now. Don't know how to even get to that point.
Don't be too hard on yourself, we all backslide. It has taken me 2 years to get the DB stuff right and often I still backslide.

Try to not let him see he is pushing your buttons. I only text my ex so it gives me time to cool off.

The best way to get along is to just focus on the kids stuff that is necessary.
Don't talk about anything personal other than just being a kind person.
Don't forget to validate (for the time being) what he is saying to you as apposed to fighting with him. Remember the saying "it better to be happy than right". Think about every thing you say to him with this filter: "Is this going to make the situation better or worse?"
I might suggest that most of your dialogue could be in emails or texts.

You have asked him for date and he ran so don't do that any more (2 x 4).
Just show him a positive, fun person and hope that he wants to come around.

Be cautious with the "relations" thing. Sometimes it brings people closer but most of the time it just hurts one of the people deeply.

(((((We know how hard all of this is))))))
Whitney is right, the sooner you can do the DB stuff the better. It has helped me so much over the last 2 months to keep detatching. It has been a slow process, but gets easier everyday. I self-talk a lot, telling myself that saying and doing certain things like checking his facebook, having r talks, getting upset and crying, calling him, IMing him, texting him, will do me NO GOOD at all. We have a very werid relationship, but my ex is classic MLC!! Look it up on wikepedia and you could see his picture..lol!! So, when he is out of the tunnel things are good, and he seems to be staying out longer and longer. We live so far apart that it is easy for me not to want to know where he is and what he is doing, cause I can't just get in my car and go try to find him, etc. We have slept together the last few times we were together, but we never really stopped doing that, a few months when he was really hot and heavy with OW we didn't, but he even cheated on her with me!! The DB book says if you can have relations and feel okay to do it, that it is a bonding experience no matter what, but at times I think men can do that and not feel much at all. And, I think my ex is one of those men. So, that part of it depends on you and how you personally handle it and stuff.

This is hard stuff, and I most days wonder why I am even trying...the man cheated on me, got caught, promised never to do it again, left me saying she had nothing to do with it and they weren't together, let me move 700 miles away with his kids, found out he was with her again and had been long before he moved out, let our house go to foreclosure, runs like he is 21 again, lives with another man in a rental house at 43 yrs. old...I could go on and on!! So, I have to ask myself what is wrong with me that I want a man who can do all these things to the woman he was married to for 18 years and his own three kids?? But, for some reason I can't stop loving him and wanting our family together.

Hang in there and come here for support. Be confident and happy and eventually you won't have to fake it anymore.

A
My problem is that I don't see him at all. We don't talk about the kids or anything anymore. The only reason he contacted me in March was because I asked him if he could help me get water off of the pool cover and he said yes.

But not to do it yet, because of the ice under it. Then a week later he texts me and asks if I got it off and I said no, and we joked back and forth about the pool and he said he didn't want to come to the house cause my girlfriend was there, and he told me his door was unlocked. I thought I was going there to talk, well one thing led to another.

The next contact was on April 7th when he dropped D13 off and gave me their left over pizza and D13 said Daddy said to give this to you and Happy Easter. I texted him and said thanks and happy Easter to you too. LOL

The next contact (April 29th)was when I asked him (nicely) through text to please watch his computer cause D13 saw some stuff that was not appropriate for her to see and then all hell broke loose. He called and accused me of cheating on him while being M and I told him (wrong thing to do DB) that I didn't cheat and still consider us M since we still are unlike him. He said he doesn't consider himself married, then I go and say well you are and you will have to face God when you die. Then he comes off with "I wish I would die already", I got to the boiling point because of discovering him on match.com and him saying he doesn't consider himself married that I said I wish you would too. Then I begged God to forgive me! I didn't mean it at all so a few hours later I texted him and apologized for saying it. So, when he picked D13 up on May 8th he took it out on her, by not letting her use his computer and didn't take her anywhere all weekend. This was Mother's Day weekend. Also was our anniversary on Mother's Day and she said that he woke up very sad (she didn't know it was our anniversary) and opened up at beer at 8:30 in the morning.

Then on May 12th I heard he was not doing well with his blood pressure and stomach problems through D13, so I texted him and told him that if he needed anything to let me know. She said he was so down and out, so then I say that I would be their as his friend if he ever wanted to talk I would listen and not judge him for the way he feels or what he says. I told him that I take some of the responsibility for us not making it but I did stand to prove to him how much I loved and cared for him and I also know what he was going through, since I went through it 6yrs. ago and didn't talk to anyone about it. I also told him that I will stay away and not bother him anymore and that it's up to him whether he would want to call if he needed someone to talk to.

Now, this has been going on for 18 months with his depression, she said he will hear a song and get all filled up. His parents (mom & step-dad) that actually set our wedding date and everything, so it would be on their anniversary don't want us back together. He didn't talk to his mother for over 12yrs. because she made a comment to his sister about H adopting my S.

And H started talking to his mother in August and blames me that I never liked her. WTH? He was the one that kept away, I would always say to him what if something happens to her, you need to make amends.

Then of course there is his father and step-mother who are Pro-divorce! He lived with them for the first 6 months of separation and then the witch that said she loved me sooo much set him up in his apartment and told him to just get divorced and be done with it. He blamed me for his depression and our M. How can he do that when he is still depressed? Now he is drinking really heavy, and went on match.com (step-mother did that).

He would go on and off his AD's and when he was on them would call when he had D13 and joke with me and everything.

Haven't heard a word since then and I'm afraid I won't either. I have gone dark now. Some people on the board have told me he is spiraling down and maybe it's a good thing and just to sit and watch, but I didn't want him to do anything to himself. 3yrs. ago he was suicidal so that's why I sent that text saying I will be there for him as a friend. He has suffered depression on and off for 12yrs. but neither set of his parents believe in depression and to top it off the step-mother is a nurse. LOL

How do I have any hope left, when both set of parents don't want us back together and he will do what they say, well he has so far. I really think he is afraid of things because of them. He doesn't want the rejection again from either set of parents.

Thank you so much for giving me the advice and answering me. Just don't know how to fake anything anymore in front of him since I haven't seen him in person since March 17th. It's like he has gone dark too. Sometimes, I swear that he is doing everything as far as DBusting to get over me. If we both go dark, how the heck will we even discuss anything to do with kids. He goes through D13 all of the time, even though I have asked him nicely not to get her involved.

Where do I go from here?

Sorry, so long just wanted to catch you two up on the sitch.
Ohhhhhhh......I was exactly where you are now. frown

I know how tough this is and I hear you 100%.

I am just over 2 years doing all of this and it's getting better by the day.
You will just get to a point that you will stop focussing on him and you will start to focus on yourself and your kids.
That is when going to no contact really makes things better.
Also, that is usually about the time our spouses "may" take notice and start poking around.

So, you really have to try to not focus on him. I know it is not easy, trust me we all know. When you first start the disconnecting process it is extremely difficult but I can tell you it does get easier.

I know hearing all of this does not make you feel better at this point but just know that we were all where you are now and it WILL get better.

I too have ex in-laws that turned against me. That is very difficult for me to take as well. I just stay as clear away from them as possible now.

Keep writing as we are all here to help you out.
smile
But when did you get to the part of doing things with the kids together? I don't know since mine are older that he would ever suggest me do something together.

When did your ex contact you first after going dark? I just sometimes don't know how I'm going to keep going on sometimes. But like you said it does get easier I guess.

Since he is completely dark, is me going dark helping?
I totally understand your anger about the in-laws. My ex's parents are dead, but his very distant family was all for him divorcing me even though my ex was the one who cheated and everything. Also, his old time friends from his hometown who I thought had enough sense to tell him what a mistake a divorce is, didn't say a word or try to talk him into staying with me. Now, he has all these divorced or single friends who are just like him and support his lifestyle completely and even supported him when he was having an affair. And, then there are those that say to just "move on", that we are both better off just getting over it all!! Those people make me the most crazy, cause they have never been seperated, or divorced and think if it happened to them they could just dump the guy or girl and be just fine in minutes!! They say if someone ever cheated on them they would be gone and not look back, they have no clue!! Cheating or no cheating divorce is beyond anything anyone can describe, it is beyond painful to the one who never wanted it.

I am having a very hard time today. I want to IM my ex and just ask what he is thinking, if he feels nothing even after all that went on when he was up here. I want to know how he can just go back down there as if nothing happened between us at all. As if he couldn't see how much his kids need and love him. I want to know how he just goes on with his life the way it is without regard to who he is hurting and all he is missing each and every day. What if something were to happen to one of our kids, would he feel he spent every minute he could with them and not regret any of the choices he made? I know I can't and won't ask him any of this, cause doing so changes nothing at all. It is a waste of time and feeling so sad is a waste of time for me. I know I shouldn't sleep with him when he is here, I have to stop that, but it is so hard when I want him to love me, miss me and think of me when he isn't here. And, like an idiot, I think that if I do that with him he will think about it when we are apart, but I think it is just sex to him. I continue to fool myself and that is just wrong.

I see all these people who get divorced and are moving on so easily, dating within months, etc. I think those people both felt their marriages were not good and wanted to divorce though. Our marrige was good, he just went into a full-blown MLC and can't get out of it. I read and read about it, but at times like this it does me no good to be logical about it all, I want my H back, my real H, the one I married and had my babies with!! I want him so bad to come running back and telling me that all will be okay again and we can be a family. I pray and pray for God to bring his heart home to us, for him to realize how no one could ever love him or know him like I do, how no other woman will be the mother of his kids and make his family whole. I beg God to make him see what matters in life and make those things my ex's top priority. I even talk to the people who have died that I think are my ex's Angel's (his Mom and Dad & his nephew who died at 16) and ask then to guide him home to us.

Sorry, just so sad today, so I am venting here and not to anyone else who doesn't really "get it"!! Thanks!!

A
Here is some information on how messed up these walk away spouses are:

On Wednesday my ex W asked if we could all go out to dinner on Friday night.
I said that would be great. She texted me a bunch of times on Wed as well.
On Thursday we exchanged texts a few times and I could tell she was different and cold.
We all went out to dinner last night and she was cold and aloof.
I sent her an email saying I had a great time and that if she wanted to do that again it would be nice. She never even wrote me back.

So, you see, we can have no idea what they are even thinking.

Now, for something more positive....Tonight I am taking my 7 year old daughter to see Taylor Swift in concert and get this .... we are going to get to meet Taylor at the meet and greet. I have a friend in the music business that arranged it. We are also going to meet Kellie Pickler and Glorianna. They are the opening acts for the concert.
I think if she doesn't really acknowlege the dinner in a positive way (as she may have had a lot of conflicting emotions too, and got scared) the next timee you see her "going cold" you should back off and not go.

Depends on what type of person she was--did she do things half-hearted and then have "good memories" later? or if she was pushed to do things she didn't want to do, did she have negative memories later.

Going dark means just that--you don't really come out of it much if at all. It seemed to have worked well for you, but then you came out pretty quickly to accomodate her.

Don't jump at every invitation. If you do go, be "distracted" when it comes to her--answer some texts and have a mysterious air. Let her be curious what you are up to.
Hi LauraOH,
Thanks for the reply !

You are right.

I just want to ask my ex why did you want to even go out to dinner? Of course I won't.
I think when she is pushed to do things she does not want to do, she does have negative memories later.
But I didn't push her, she was the one that asked for us to all go out.

It's just that it has been over 2 years and I thought here is a baby step. In two years I have had 3 invitations so it's hard not jump at them.

I have to go back to being dark as it served me better.
Augtan,

I do know what you were going through on Friday. I have all of the feelings you have. I just want my H to come home and tell me he loves me and wants our family back so bad.

I just don't know what to do....my H isn't with OW yet. But it is his parents that are telling him to D me already. I know I wrote about the in-laws but how the heck do I get a man that was always afraid of his F to just come home. I found out over the weekend that mine does think of coming home and wants us but is too afraid of what his parents would do. So he has a lot of confusion going on in his head. Talk about messed up. He doesn't even contact me or anything, but loves me and the kids all of this is so confusing.

But anyway, how do you fight for your M when the S is afraid of what everyone will think and what their parents will do? Has anyone ever heard of this before? It's usually an OP involved not parents, especially at our age.

I pray and pray every day and night. I found rejoiceministries through this website and get the daily devotionals and thought maybe God was telling me to stand for this M. I was always praying don't get me wrong, but being so lonely I almost went out on a date and everything until I found the site.

I was also told that I'm not strong enough yet to have H come back because he is very needy and always was, and also that he is in such a bad state and I have to be strong because of all the baggage he will be bringing home with him as far as his family goes.

So like this site tells you to do....go dark, no pursuing, etc and so does the rejoiceministries site and far as no pursing, I will continue to stay dark and fake it till I make it.

Just hope that I can last, I have to get strong in order for H to come home. I started on Saturday with cleaning out the closets in our bedroom, I need to do the whole house. I have put so much off the past 18 months because of being so depressed and I know I have to get my act together.

To be honest, I know I will probably be down and out tonight. This really stinks.
Whit, I haven't even been asked for any invites in 18 months. I did invite H to D's 13th Bday party. It was a skating party for just her and her friends and he never showed. Then both of my children have the same Bday so I invited H to the house for cake just for the four of us and he said no to that too.

That was back in October towards the end of the month then on Nov. 15th he calls late at night and asks if I would make him my Mac and Cheese and he would pick it up when he dropped our D13 off and I go and say yes. It wasn't done by the time he dropped her off so I had her call him when it was done and ask him if he wanted me and her to drop it off of just me and he said it didn't matter.

So I go alone, and one thing led to another and I thought things were getting better for us and that he was seeing the light but NOPE. He just went right back into the tunnel, so I do know how it is to just jump in and want to be with them.

My point is that with in 3 to 4 weeks he had different feelings or emotions towards me. I don't get how they are either. How I wish we could get into their heads and know what they are thinking and help them already.

My H doesn't see things like a lot of other people do here or maybe it's because he is afraid things will get back to his parents but to not go to your own child's party.

I see a lot of people on this board that get together for things that are separated or divorced, but not mine. Just wish I knew why mine isn't like them. It really hurts the kids.

But he was raised like that, so I guess maybe that might have something to do with it. His parents divorced when he was 2 and his father married the OW. So his parents never got along after that, I can't believe how much they hate each other to be honest. And I don't want it to be that way with our D but I don't know how to fix that either.

I didn't find this website until we were 5 months separated. Wish I would have found it sooner. I made way to many mistakes.....begging, pleading, you name it.

Well, that didn't take too long, I thought I would be sad again tonight, but within hours I'm sad again already.
I truly understand how you would "jump" at the chance at going to dinner. But I would carefully moniter that as much as any other interaction--and yours just screamed from the beginning "don't do it". She waffled, was moody, etc. It just wasn't going to work out well.

Go dark again--really dark. Let her get curious. And either don't go to the next one (probably a 180 for you) or act very distant to her and very warm to EVERYONE else. Be very careful here--if you "jump" normally when she says "jump", you are very vulnerable to looking like a pursuer which is very unattractive.

Have you read the book No More Mr. Nice Guy? This will help you fight the tendencies you have to pursue.

I almost think a guy like you SHOULD date--they can smell it or something and you give off some "vibe" that they pick up on. I know--it's probably a horrible idea on so many levels--but try to capture that "vibe" somehow.
Thank you so much for posting again.

I am just burnt out of all this crap.
Unfortunately I think this going to all come to a head soon.
I am sick of all this "dance".

Yes, I am open to dating except I know myself...if I meet someone that I actually like I will never look back.

As far as Goodfight....as you have heard over and over, no mater what we do our ex's are on their own journey. The best thing for us to do is just get out of their way and let them continue on, without us.

As you can see from my experience...going out with my ex was not so great. In hindsight I wished I had not gone with her. It just left me empty and wanting more.

I will go back to my no contact and only respond to my ex when required.

BTW my daughter and I got to meet Taylor Swift on Saturday night. She was the nicest, most personable person I have ever met. She bent down and hugged my daughter and said she looked like a fairy. I thanked her for being such a great role model.
She hugged us both and they took a photo of us.
It made me realize that there are genuine people out there with decent values.
All of us are struggling so much here.
I just want us to all think about something. Think about the legacy we leave our children.

Really take the time to do something truly memorable with your kids. Something so good that they will remember it after we are gone and do that with their kids.
It does not have to be a monumental event. It could be something small. But just make sure it's really thoughtful and focused on the child, you and the experience.

For me, knowing I will leave my kids with such incredible experiences gives me the greatest fulfilment I can possible have in life.
You know, this journey, the reason we are all here--it's not "fun", it's definitely got a lot of twists and turns we didn't ask for.

But when I think about my son, and all I have learned here--I *know* I have been a better mom, and I BET you--I KNOW that you have been a wonderful dad.

There is a profound sense of "what is important" in us that our WAS's may or may not have--but we DO have it.

I don't know if I would have been able to focus so clearly on him if it hadn't gone the way it has--I used to worry about a dirty house, or friends, or ....so many other things took my attention away.

This sitch has given me such a clear head that THAT STUFF means NOTHING. When I am with my S, I am WITH him in the present. And I know his LLs.lol. That is certainly a gift.

I've been doing this 6 years off and on. I could get really bitter about that. But I look at my now 14 yo S who just got an award for his grades (4.0 the entire year) and some special recognition for some plays he was in. I have focused on him for the last 6 years, and I don't regret anything in my sitch--nothing. I almost had ADHD with him before--the other stuff was SO distracting.

Your outing with your daughter--wow--so special. Such a treat. But even in the littel things you do, you are different now.

In a good way.
I could not have said it better.

This has been the worst and the best thing in my life.

It has given me appreciation and compassion.

It has helped me really focus on what matters.
Sadly, that also brings me a realization of how much
of my kids lives I miss.

But each day is a new one.
Again, focus on the positives.

There are ways that YOU ARE DIFFERENT. Positive things that would not have happened.

You may have been home with your kids 24/7 if this had not happened--but would you have been "there"? I was with my S for the first 8 years and wasn't.

You mention compassion--don't you know what a gift compassion is? If you are a more compassionate person, every aspect of your life is now "different" in a positive way. Your children, all the people that you come in contact with--they will benefit. I wasn't a compassionate person. I was selfish and self-absorbed. Now I "see" and "feel" when people need me. And I express my needs so much more freely--and they are met in the strangest, most interesting ways. I was very unpopular in school--very mousy, very nerdy, very shy.

I feel like a rock star--I have more friends than I know what to do with. Amazing.

I also went through college in an unfocused way--graduated with barely a C average. Had no direction. Fell into a job. Not what I want to do "for the rest of my life".

I am back in school. Again, focused like I have never been. I want all A's. I am 25 years older than those kids. They are so kind to me--I just love it. I raise my hand first--no more shy, mousy person.

I am now at 47 more toned and fit and healthy than I have ever been in my life. I can focus easily on my exercise goals. I used to HATE exercising. Now it relaxes me.

My H married one person. I am now another. Do I ever want to go back, even if it means losing him? Nope. Adjust, or get out of my way. I'm having way too much fun.

Focus there Whitney--look back. Focus.
I agree 100%.
My changes have been huge, and I am thankful this has happened.

The challenge is I have interaction with my ex way too much.
On Friday I was out to dinner with her and our kids, then last night she came by to pick up my daughter. She came in my house and was hanging out with my kids and then gave me a hug when she left.
She just seems to want to smooth things over so it's all cool between us.
I just can't seem to get past everything yet. My ex got up walked out the door without trying to even talk to me, has a new life now and just expects me to say "oh well".
I made a commitment to her for life, we have a family. I will never take the "oh well attitude ever !!

So yes, I am very grateful this has happen but not happy that I don't get to have a traditional family life.
I get to experience my children every few days and that is it.
I don't let resentment get in the way of my life with my children at all. It's just that I miss being a family.
You have been growing--your W did something immature and selfish.

You DO have interactions way too much. Stop "smoothing it over" with her. She did break up your family. Focus on that and treat her more like the stranger she is. Be cool, aloof, and not mean, but not warm either.

Why does she get a hug?? Make her work for it--she hasn't done anything to deserve that. Make YOU the priority here. What do YOU want.

(I know, an intact family is what you ultimately want--but that isn't reality now--stick with reality)

What would you be doing if you were dating someone else--meditate on that before you have interactions with her.

You have to stop playing victim here--even in your head. Be proud of you. She may *look* like she is having a fine, wonderful life. Don't be so sure. Has she grown? has she matured? did she run from problems? without saying a word? What work has she done on herself so that won't happen ever again?

Detach, look at her from a distance. Trouble is coming her way. You just wait. Nothing about her is different--everything about you is different. Your next R is going to be SO MUCH BETTER. And it may even be with your W--but you have to do some more work too.

Focus on those challenges.
Whit,
I know exactly how you feel as far as the family thing goes. That's all I ever wanted since I was a little girl.
I don't have contact with my H because he only sees our D13 and she is old enough to go outside when he beeps for her.

So it hurts both ways. I want to cry every time I hear him beep his horn for her to come out, wishing he would come to the door or something. It just seems I guess that when they are around it hurts no matter what.

LO is so right and I'm glad I read her post to you. It made me feel better also. Thanks LO.
LO,

Yep, god you are so right on all these points !
I can't even respond to the points as they are so dead on ! smile

Feeling good today as I am away from all of it from the weekend.
No contact is so much better.

Ok, it's beautiful weather out. Let's get outside and enjoy !
Ohhhhh, here comes the roller-coaster again.
Today I was planning a summer trip for me kids and I. I felt sad that my ex W would not be a part of this. I actually felt a loss for her.

I picked up my kids from school and my 5 year old was telling me all about his weekend at the cottage with his mom and her family and all the great stuff they did.
I am so resentful to hear this. My ex W and I moved back to Canada from NYC to build our own cottage. I have 2000 hours into the place. Well, it was just sold recently.
All I can think about is my ex W over in her new cottage with my kids.
I was thrown out like a piece of trash.

Of course today she contacted my all sweet and nice asking if I could take the kids to the dentist next week. I work on my own so I like to do this stuff as it's additional time I get to spend with my kids.

My ex W has an ohhhh so fabulous life now. She is now really close with her sister and her parents. Of course she was not when we were together.

Ya, I am feeling really bitter right now !!

See, we all go through the roller-coaster of emotions daily !
Listen, you are WAY too reactionary.

How are you going to work on that?

FOCUS. (Get some goals in place for detachment PLEASE)

Make plans for you and your kids and STOP wishing she was there. Why? Because you want your kids to do exactly what they did to you--go on and on about all the fun things you guys did WITHOUT HER. Do NOT be mopey in front of those kids!!

Let HER feel left out--and she will!! OMGoodness--they are at that precious age that they are doing new things every day. And dads bring out a different side of thier kids. SHE KNOWS THIS and it will KILL Her to be away from them. GOOD. SHE DID THIS!!

She is very immature--make her GROW the heck UP!!

Nobody will love her kids like their dad--nobody on the PLANET. It's a very, very strong force you have on your side--you need to understand how IMPORTANT YOU ARE!!! This is a HUGE and WONDERFUL opportunity for you!

Make those plans. You don't have to do anything expensive. You could get cardboard boxes from the grocery store and make a fort--they would be in heaven. (be glad you don't have teenagers yet.lol) Speak to her MINIMALLY. text MINIMALLY. Do not jump when she says--STOP THAT. Let her MISS YOU--make it TOUGH for her. Make her be alone with her THOUGHTS.

Make sure the kids don't speak to her if they are having any sort of meltdown (like at that age they always do). Wait until they are in a GREAT mood and have THEM call. If they say "Mom wants to talk to you." tell her you'll call her back you're busy--and make her WAIT ON YOU.

Gee--have a bit of fun with this will ya! She may be in that cottage alright--in it and MISERABLE if you just stay a few steps ahead of her!

Cottages and houses are THINGS. FAMILY is EVERYTHING!!!!
Hey LauraO.
You rock !

You know it's funny how we all go through this roller coaster. One day we feel great and the next not so great.
Today I am feeling great !

Firstly, I can't thank you enough for your perspective on this. I really never think of the situation the way you are. It's especially great to hear a woman's view as well.
I just assume my ex could not be happier with this situation.

You know you are so right about the cardboard box thing. My kids love doing that.

This weekend I have my 5 year old son. I have arranged for us to have a tour of a power plant. He will love seeing all the big machinery.
I also just bought tickets to see Green Day for him and I. It's going to be his first concert. He is through the roof excited. My 7 year old daughter said she didn't want to go. She is more into Miley Cyrus and Taylor Swift. She and I are going to Carrie Underwood in a few months.

My daughter took to school photos of her meeting Taylor Swift and Kellie Pickler from the weekend. One of the teachers that is fond of me commented that she would have loved to have gone with us. She told my daughter how lucky she was. She did this in front of my ex. My ex said "Chloe, you have the best daddy ever".

Anyway, yes you are right. I will continue on having such a great time with my kidlets. The truth is I was doing not too badly when I had NC with my ex. I got messed up when I got sucked back in.
Must stay strong and keep ahead !

Thanks again LO. You have been helping soooo much. Feel great that you are helping someone else ! smile
Listen, if she appears "happy with the sitch", it's because YOU have HELPED HER!!

OMG! if I left my H and he was at my back and call and there were no consequences, heck, I'd be happy too!! I deal with a lot of BS from my H--I'd love to have the "best of him" with nothing else!lol.

This is the week that you have a TON of fun, and W gets to grow UP.

Don't let anything stop you from helping her grow--expect sadness, anger, whining, tears--oh well. Every tear she sheds is because she MADE A MISTAKE and is REALIZING IT. Tears mean GROWTH.

Again--MINIMAL CONTACT. Your cell was out of range, or not charged or...whatever. I would even go for like 2 days if the kids can stand it....

This is the life SHE CHOSE. Now let her deal with it!!

NC and consequences that are painful--you must concentrate on this. She thinks she can pick and chose what parts of you she wants--DO NOT let her THINK this!!

YOU have let her have that idea WAY too long. Your kids need a mature woman for a mom, not a child. Think of THEM FIRST. She is now last on your priority list.

You're a fantastic dad--I'm very excited for you and your kids are SO BLESSED!!
ha ha ha.

I don't think my ex has shed a tear ever.

You know she calls here after ever great event that I do with the kids. I do get resentful of that.

The kids never ask to call her, but call me when they are with her.

Yep, back to the NC.

Thanks again.

Have a great day !!
Hi LO,

So this weekend I have my son and my ex W is taking my daughter to Montreal.
I have a action packed weekend planned with my son.

My ex just emailed me the following:

"Hi. I left some clothes for you in Kelly's backpack. He also has some reading to do this weekend so please take it home with you.
Have a great weekend with him! We are flying out at 4pm and return before 6pm on Sunday."

Do I even bother to respond to her?

What if she phones this weekend to see how we are doing should I just let it go to voice mail?
Here is my 2 cents. Yes respond with:

Thanks, hope you have a great time too.

She will wonder you are being so chipper. I did it once to my XH and he actually asked why I was so chipper - really through him off.

Have a great weekend.
Thanks for the reply.

Just never seem to know the right way to handle all of this.
When I am distant and/or have NC my ex is super nice to me.
When I am nice to her she becomes cold and distant.

I just ended up texting her back "ok, thanks".

Have a great weekend planned with my son so I am looking forward to that.

You have a great weekend as well.
I got the impression on reading through the posts that whitney has been too available with his ex.

If it were me, I wouldn't. Make her wait--let her think--let her wonder.

Then (later) just a very cool "Thanks". or, if that is uncomfortable for you, make it just "less" than what you normally do. No "Hi" or anything chit-chatty.

She just doesn't get "your best".

I'll be interested in what she does with that!

Have FUN and give that little guy a TON OF KISSES!!

LO
Oops--just missed ya!

PERFECT!!

Have fun!
Laura
Thanks LO

Will keep everyone posted if I hear from her this weekend.
My guess is that she will want to talk to our son on Sunday and/or will want to hear how the birthday party was that we are going to.

You have a good weekend.
Update.
Ex w went away with my daughter on the weekend. I had my son.
Ex contacted us as soon as she was home on Sunday night to hear how my son's weekend was. Fine
My son and I went to an airshow and went flying. We also toured a bunch of buildings in our city as it was the annual "Doors Open" event.

Ex contacted me this morning as my son was sick. I work from home so I took care of him.

Ex asked if I wanted to have dinner next Wednesday before my daughter's dance recital. It's my night that I have the kids. My ex wants to get my daughter ready before the recital.
I replied back to my ex "what does SHE want to do as far as dinner?"
She took a day to reply and said yes, let's go for dinner.

So, here I am again... a week later in the same situation. To tell you the truth I kind of don't want to go to dinner. If my ex was really enthusiastic about it then I would be too, but she is not showing that. I can't back out as my kids know we are having dinner together.

I really want to just ask my ex "what's on her mind, why does she even want to do this?"

I am just going to keep moving forward with NC on my end.
I would ignore this woman and be very warm and chatty with the kids. She is an inerloper into YOUR NIGHT and she is going to be COLD to you!! She has no regard to how it looks to the kids.

Wear something different, order something you normally would not order, flirt with the waitress, notice any pretty women. And do NOT chit chat with her, which is temperature taking. You don't care--PLEASE--make her "feel" that from you. Care about the people there that care about YOU. Your KIDS--that's IT!
Hi LO,

Nice to have your reply. I was hoping to hear from you.

The truth is I could have said no to her.
I would rather take the approach of just being
happy and light when we are all together.
I think taking the high road is best, especially in front of the
kids.
If I was to act the way you suggested I might be better off not
going.

I think I am in a better position now that I have NC.

Please excuse any spelling issues as I am using my iPhone to reply.

smile
This time I have no expectations.
Ordering something different is taking the low road?

Explain to me what is wrong with creating mystery. I got it from the DB book.

Explain to me what is wrong with being aloof and not warm to your ex W--again--it's from the DB book.

And chit chatting with her IS TEMPERATURE TAKING! The minute you do it, she will be cold.

You are not taking the high road--you are taking the easy way out.

If you don't do anything different, expect a lot more of THE SAME.
How's it going?

Done any good 180s lately?

I'm here on my own, H and S gone for the week to Canada for a fishing trip. I'm about to take a sledgehammer to the fireplace.lol. (it's something he has promised to do for over a year now--we need the space in our living room).

Can I justify it by saying it is a 180 for me?lol.

Anyway, hope all is well with you--no news is good news they say!
Hello LO,

Go for it, smash it down and get it all fixed up.

Well, I have been a bit burnt out and am getting tired of all of this. That is why I did not post.

Went out to dinner with my family last Wednesday and then to my daughters dance recital. I was cool, yet light and fun.
It was nice to be all together and then the next day I was alone and it left me feeling twice as empty.
I am really struggling here not being with my two kids. Why would anyone have kids and not want to do everything possible to be a family? We only have one life to live.

To tell you the truth my ex is never coming back ever, no matter what I do. There is no reason for her to do so. She is from a super wealthy family, is beautiful and is as fit as a 19 year old. She has a fantastic job and an ex husband (me) that takes care of the kids.

As she walked out the door 2 years ago she said to me "I don't need you". That sums it all up. She does not need anyone. She has a nanny, a gardner and a maintenance person. Her parents pay for everything on top of her high salary.

I am just burnt out of the whole "dance" and am just trying to concentrate on my kids.

Sorry you caught me on a "down" day.
I am sorry--really I am. I have some thoughts if you don't mind...

But first, I have to say that I have more votes to "go ahead and smash" then not, so....that actually is making me feel better!

Detachment is your friend here. I read that part of her having everything, and I thought wow--we sure see things differently. To me, she is a.spoiled b. a user c. boring and all that adds up to an UNATTRACTIVE person.

There is no growth in her. She is perpetually going to be? a teen?? Supported and cared for by her parents?? This is an interesting woman?

I know there is plenty to focus on that is negative. You have GOT to get past that and see the positives. Your attention and focus and drive for your kids. That is huge. You may not have ever had it if you had stayed with her (being the perpetual teen that she is--she sounds draining) Especially the focusing you will have developed. The attention to small details. I will bet that she will always be jealous of you and your abitilty as a father--it will surpass hers soon, if it hasn't already.

These are gifts that you need to open and treasure and be grateful for. There are more--you have to look for them.

The sooner you focus on the positives in this sitch, and the sooner you detach and really "see" her, the sooner you will be able to focus on the important stuff.

And making waves in their little "fantasy" of you being perpetually at their back-and-call is good too. My H thinks of me as a servant. I have run around for years doing his bidding and trying to be "nice" all the time.

I'm slowly and steadily releasing my inner "bitch".lol. But seriously--it seems to be working!! Where's my sledgehammer!!
LO,

I just love getting your replies.

Well, you are so right on so many levels. She is jealous of the father I am. I do soooo much with my kids and we will have a life rich in experiences.

I totally agree that there has been no growth in her through this. I have had HUGE growth and for sure am a better father for it.

Go ahead and smash the chimney !
I had a fabulous day yesterday. Borrowed a REAL sledgehammer from neighbors. Took MAJOR CHUNKS out of the fireplace. It felt soooo good.

I hope you get the opportunity to be wild--look for that gift. You can't imagine the fun.
That is awesome !!!

Moved out of the cottage this weekend. The kids and I were very upbeat and positive. Many new experiences ahead for the kids and I.
Sent a few photos of the kids swimming for the last time at the cottage etc. to my ex. She wrote back that she was heartbroken that the cottage was sold and apologized for any and all pain that everyone was suffering.
Then sent lot's of hugs and love. WTF !!
I guess some guilt is setting in for her.

Oh ya, my ex also sent me a note on Father's Day saying how outstanding of a father I am etc...... (rolling my eyes)

She suggested that we go out for dinner next week with the kids and we have to take them to a camp open house. I told her I would agree to that if she was happy to be there and it was fun. She said she is always happy to be there.

Well, just plugging on and planning all kinds of fun travels for my kids this summer.

Just trying to keep a bit of distance and not get sucked in.
smile
I picked up H from the airport yesterday. I was full of anxiety for about 2 days--the workers hadn't finished the drywall and there was SO much dust it took forever to clean.

I treated H very coolly on the way home (a 1/2 hour drive). He asked me a lot of questions about my week. I told him a little about my life lately (he has been completely uninterested for about 5 months--I am done pursuing him to care).

Got home and he asked why the truck was in the backyard. I told him because of the workers. He was like, huh? I said he'd see when he got in the house.

Long story short, we had a long talk, we hugged and kissed, and I got lucky!lol.

He will be cold again soon I'm sure, but 180s DO WORK!! If you have been available and "nice" and it hasn't worked, you HAVE to go the other way.
Well, sounds like you had some fun times. Good for you.

I had been thinking about getting together with my ex this Wednesday.
Told her I was only interested in getting together if it meant something to her. (I know, give me the 2x4). She said that she just wanted us to be friends and nothing more than that. I told her that I was not interested in getting together then.

So, yes I am going to go completely the other way and no longer be nice.

This weekend I am flying the kids and I to Boston for 4th of July celebrations. We live in Canada but my kids are getting their U.S citizenship on July 14th. I wanted them to truly experience all the patriotism of 4th of July.

You know, as I planned out all the trip, all I could think about was the tremendous "family" experience we are about to have. An experience that will only come once in our lives.
I thought about my ex and that she should be there. If she has no interest in working on our family then how could I even love this person let alone want to be friends with her. Given the rare chance to work on our family she does nothing.

Why would I even want someone like that?

We have 2 of the most precious kids on earth. I want to spend every minute with them. I want to experience every possible great thing life has to offer with them. If my ex does not feel the same way then screw her.

Yes, I messed some stuff up BUT I did not end a marriage and destroy our family.

So, maybe a bit of anger is what is required here so that I can move on.
Anger has done nothing but good things in my sitch. It is "riteous anger" and there is a difference.

Riteous anger is going to see the abuse they are heaping on innocent children.

Riteous anger is going to tell you YOU are not deserving of this.

Riteous anger is going to move you away from the abuse. You and your kids are being treated terribly. It will open your eyes to this fact. Being nice to her is a disservice to your children. It is teaching them they are not worth you standing up for them.

I have tried to think of ways to tell you that you are contributing to the abuse of children by treating their abuser kindly, but I didn't know how. I know you love them. I know it's not because you are doing it consciously. But you are modeling a very unhealthy man along with your unhealthy W.

I hope today was Ok to tell you this. Have a wonderful 4th. And along with the fireworks, remember that riteous anger got this country away from the tyranny and made it strong.
Oh, and we are good friends with England now.lol.
Hi LO,

You know if you had sent me this post a month ago it would have bothered me but now it is exactly dead on.

The anger I am feeling right now is her lack of responsibility and accountability to me and to our kids. Its the total disrespect for our family and our welfare.

When I am away in Boston I will not be sending any photos. I know my ex will send me an email asking how it is going.
I will be responding in a very harsh way.
Basically I am going to say "given the choice to work on our family you have chosen to do absolutely nothing. I have too much love and respect for my children to continue to have you be this way. You have made a clear choice to not be a part of our family."

How's that wink
And some more that I will write:

"I just simply will no longer go along with this behaviour. The kids and I deserve better!"
It is perfect timing--all of it. You can show your kids you tried one way, the way that most would say to do. And it didn't work.

Now you are going into Poppa Bear mode. She IS being disrespectful and you MUST treat her with the disdain she deserves. Her behaviour is UGLY and TERRIBLE to those kids!! Call her out on that!!

I would start to be saying all this now. Prepare her for what is coming.

Then on vacation send her a one-line Zinger-- Something to really a. shock the heck out of her and b. Resonates a "truth" that she won't be able to get out of her head.

She will try to "argue" with that truth--you don't answer it or "argue" back. Just let it sit there and percolate.

I'll try to think of one--or you think of one. One sentence. Really powerful. Think on that for a while....
Awesome !!

I agree I need a "one liner". If you come up with anything let me know. I will think about it as well.

On Wednesday I am taking my kids to an orientation day at their new camp.
My ex will send me a note asking how it went.
I think that is when I will start laying it into her.

When she emails on the weekend I will send this:
" You have made a choice to not be a part of our family and given the choice to work on it you have chosen to do absolutely nothing.
I just simply will no longer go along with this behaviour. The kids and I deserve better!
YES!!! Perfect, perfect, perfect.

What is "the truth" about her? You know her best. Something that you know she knows is true. It is something she would argue to the death because she doesn't like it about herself.

Hm....
She is very focused on her image.
I am ready to let her have it !
OMgoodness, I got chills.

How has her "lie" destroyed your family? How is she using it to hurt her children?
Really the issue is it's not what she did...it's what she did not do. She just did not want to work on our relationship.
To quote her "I let her down and she fell out of love with me". All she said at the time was it "was sad and unfortunate."

She just decided she wanted a different lifestyle.

She has a multi-million dollar home and a multi-million dollar cottage.

She thinks I am the most "outstanding" father and she wants me to move onto a happy life for myself.

That's about it.
My husband's "lie" is that he cares about our S.

You can NOT care about our S and treat me so poorly. You are affecting his marriage and dooming him to a miserable R some day.

I keep up a barage of "this and its variations."

I am slowly using it more and more--I am seeing results--it is powerful!!
Oh god, is that the truth.

I have read very book I can on divorce and it's effects on children. I too am from divorce. I know how bad this will be for everyone.

BUT as you know you can't change anyone's mind. They have to come to conclusions on their own.
You can't change anyone's mind, no. But a "truth" is a truth. It is powerful because--it IS the truth. They "diffuse" this truth with their arguments and "noise" in their head.

That is why saying it before leaving them, or using as the last thing you say on the phone, or best for you--the ONLY text she gets during that weekend is going to be so powerful.

You can't argue with a text. She will HAVE to dwell on it. You can FORCE her to do this! (fun, huh!!)

You send her one "message" over and over and over and tell your kids in front of her the "message" and she knows YOU are saying it to THEM and they are LIVING the message??

That a parent that loves them doesn't "give up" and fights for the "wonderful dad?"

It's not polished, but it's coming!!
Sheesh--I'm trying to come up with my own. It's hard to get "the right words".

My H and I had a C session and he states "he wants out". So I figure, hey, let's have an in-house separation and I go to the spare bedroom.

He doesn't text, but I went to the ATT store and see he gets about 10 texts a month

I need to send him a text--a good one--myself. He'll read it. Then complain that it cost 20 cents. I need a line for that one too....

"It takes just as much energy to end a marriage as it takes to rebuild a marriage. And rebuilding is cheaper."

Then later--Sorry H, but 20 cents seemes a bargain compaired to the thousands you will spend on a divorce.

What do you think?

Meanwhile, I am doing another home project!! Hey, the last one was a lot of fun!!! Now I'm getting rid of pocket doors and putting in French doors--again, I fought it, he wants it--he's getting it!

Crazy stuff, huh!
Well.....

The truth is no mater what we do, either loving or mean, nothing is really going to change their mind. As DB states we have to focus on ourselves and move forward in life.

I had been thinking about "letting my ex have it" while I am away. Really, it's not going to help the situation and it most certainly is not going to drive her back to work on our marriage. She is gone and is never going to turn back.

I think I am just going to calmly respond to her "that she has chosen to not work on our family and that she wants me to move on. Then just let me move on by no longer contacting me while I have the children".
Our separation agreement states that each parent will respect the privacy of the other when they have the kids.

Mostly I am just really sad that I don't get to be with my children everyday. As you can probably tell I miss them more than you can imagine.

Enjoy doing the upgrades to your house. Try to sit your H down and look him in the eye and tell him how important the renovations are to you. Tell him you value him and that you wish he could work with you on the renovations. See what happens.
Hi whitneypinch
just to say thank you for your kind support on my thread. I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with your sitch yet, but wanted to say my heart goes out to you - I'm so very sorry you're apart from your kids. I'm sure they love you very much, and think of you as often as you do of them. Take care, PG.
PS - just wanted to say it's nice to meet someone on the boards here, who is also from Canada.
Whitney,

I think you are right, there's no need to do anyhing concerning your wife.

Just don't respond to her emais at all while you are on vacation and just enjoy yourself.
I think he got back from vacation a while ago.

So a litle about me: My H went to a L yesterday! So my fun continues.

He has responded really well though to my being very, very strong. I think he wanted to see me crack yesterday. Didn't happen.

2 very, very good books I picked up recently from lurking in Infedelity: Love must be Tough by Dr. Dobson (awesome!) and Boundaries in Marriage. Spells out POINT BLANK how I got to this point--no boundaries, no consequences to his actions--this leads to the disrespect.

So how was vacation? and life in general for you??
Hi there !

Yes, got back from a fantastic weekend in Boston for 4th of July. It was incredible. Saw the fireworks, Boston Pops, whale watching, aquarium, great restaurants and lot's of history.
Ex contacted my just before we flew back to send her love to our kids.
When I got back I sent her photos and videos of us all having a fantastic time.
Hee hee rubbing it in.

This past weekend I took my 5 year old son out on his new moto-x motorcycle. He is only 5 !! He rode awesome and was the happiest boy in the world.
The next day the kids and I went to the Honda Indy race here in Toronto.
Sent photos and videos to ex wife.
Hee hee rubbing it in.

Just finished planning a 8 day road trip for the kids and I through NY, VT, NH and ME. Visiting caves, clam bake, Smugglers Notch resort, Ben & Jerry's factory tour, outdoor concerts, etc.
Sent itinerary to ex wife.
Hee hee rubbing it in.

Took kids to Buffalo last week for an citizenship interview. My Canadian kids are now also Americans !! Dad took care of all the legal application process for over a year.

You picking up the theme here....?
Life goes on and I will continue to do fantastic adventures/experiences with my kids.

I think my ex could care less that she is not there.
She has said again what a fantastic father I am....wtf? Should that not be worthy of at least talking about our situation??? Apparently not for her.

smile

You need a few good "truth darts" as they call them.

W: Oh, you are such a fantastic father!
You: A fantastic father would be in a committed marriage with their mother, but I'm doing the best I can.

W: You are so great with the kids, taking them to all these great places!
You: They are probably being spoiled out of my guilt that I can't be with them 24/7. But that's what divorce does....

W: Isn't it great what wonderful parents we are!!
You: Wonderful parents stay in a committed marriage since statistics show that children or divorce are more likely to have a lot of problems when they get older.

See what I mean? She is in lala land, and needs "reality".

(btw, I think it's GREAT the things you are doing too--UNDER the CIRCUMSTANCES!!)
ha ha ha

Yep I have thought of everyone of those responses wink
The truth is no matter what I say it's not going to change a damn thing. You are right she is in la la land.

It was my birthday last week and my ex's mom sent me an email wishing me a great birthday and how wonderful it was that I was spending it with my kids.
She is in la la land as well.

All of them think this is all just awesome and that everyone is doing great.
Of course anyone that has read any real research knows that damage occurs to our kids and it starts to show up in their teenage years when they attempt to start to form relationships.

Really, there is nothing we can do to change the situation.
We just continue to focus on ourselves and our kids.

smile
Originally Posted By: whitneypinch

The truth is no matter what I say it's not going to change a damn thing.

Do you think though, that it might help you to hear yourself, in your own voice, speak up for you and assert yourself with these kinds of responses? It might not change her, but it does wonders for the self esteem!
Ya,, I have done that in the past and I will hit her with some zingers in the future.
wink

Although I find that I initially feel great when I snap back at her that I later feel not so great being nasty.
Trust me I used to be nasty all the time.
There is just no need anymore to be nasty.
Karma has a way of finding a way to nasty people. My ex will get her's in due time
smile
Oh! Sorry no WP... I certainly didn't mean to say to be nasty... I agree and nasty never helps the self-esteem. Just concerned for you, and hoping you weren't letting her say things to you that made you feel badly, without speaking up and letting her know she hurt you. Take care! smile
Oh, don't be sorry. You didn't say anything wrong smile

Well, the truth is these walk aways say many things that are hurtful but they have no idea. They connivence themselves that just because they have no more feelings that for sure their exs will have no feeling as well.

I am just trying to keep my distance for it all and focus on my kidlets.
Right--no need to be nasty. You can be SAD when you say these things--they are sad truth darts, to be sure!

I have another ?? Do either of you plan on being involved with anyone in the future?

Because all this "happy divorce stuff" will probably fly right out the window when that happens.

W: Isn't it great we can get along so well!
You: Yes, and I hope the person I end up with loves the kids as much as you and I do.

THAT, above all else, makes my skin crawl--someone else involved with my S.
After lurking in Infidelity a bit I had to come back over here and give you a few things to think about (they use those truth darts to GET THROUGH to their affair addicted S's--affairs being very much like on drugs!)

They are always stated rationally and calmly and with a bit of regret. Get yourself to the place that you can do this without being at all nasty. The work to get yourself in that place must be done first.

They are texted more than spoken. That gives the S something to think about and NOT argue with. Any argument by the WAS is rationalization and negates what you said. They WILL try to negate and argue--it's the nature of the beast to difuse a hurt that stings.

They must be stated over and over. Your W is very much like the affair partner--she is in huge denial. You need to arm yourself with statistics about what she is doing. Start to educate yourself on the harmful effects of D on children's future lives.

There are guys around here that need the 180 of being more involved as parents, kinder, more helpful, etc. This is not you.

You are on MY end of the spectrum. You need to be MORE assertive, MORE proactive, MORE able to stand up for truth and what is right. Most people like us are terrified of a D that we just sit passively and let the WAS walk all over us. But you have already D'd!! There is nothing to fear now! What you have feared has already happened!!

Look, I am where you are, except I am not going down without a fight. I have armed myself with some very good books--Boundaries in Marriage is AWESOME. Shows you how in the marriage there is the proactive S and the passive S and how we get into these messes is by NOT putting up boundaries 1.with ourselves (!!--yes! We have to have boundaries FIRST) and 2. with the S.

I would suggest for you "No More Mr. Nice Guy" that they advocate over in Infedelity as well.

I encourage you to do what you can--you need to stop throwing your hands in the air and saying "there's nothing I can do". YES THERE IS!! Get yourself educated! I may end up D too, but not without an education on WHAT I did, and how this is PREVENTABLE, and how even when D'd I can STILL get to my H.

Yes--you will always, always, always be able to get to your W. Knowledge is power WP, and you have the ability to get yourself educated here.

Get those 2 books!! And go over to the Infidelity boards and see how they get to the S that is in lala land.
Hey WP, just wanted to let you know I may be hanging out over here soon...

Got served yesterday--I am still going to try to win him back--he seems "winable" at this point.lol. He is in much worse shape mentally than I am!

How's it going with you??

Take care,
Laura
Wellllll, I am sorry to hear that, but good luck on the winning back. Make sure you do what MWD suggests.

Sorry I did not respond to your last posting.

Yes, I am VERY aware of all the statistics and effects of divorce. In fact I am a Social Analyst and Forecaster by career. In other words my job is to know everything that is going on in society.
Most of us LBS end up educating ourselves to all the statistics etc. of divorce. We are armed with so much information that we can "almost" predict what is going to happen to all of us. The problem is, is that we are the only ones seeking this information. The WAS never bothers to look at the information. They are all about "gut feelings" and are just looking for a happy release. Years later "some WAS" start to look around a bit as they realize there are additional problems that they did not expect. That is when "some WAS" return. Pretty much the majority of WAS that return are men. Very, very rarely do women ever return if they are the ones that walked away.

Trust me I have read every single book that various people on this board have suggested. The No More Mr Nice Guy is a valuable book as well as Hold Onto Your Nuts.

I just want to clarify something.....as you probably can tell from my posts I am a pretty caring guy, deeply involved with his kids.........That was my 180 !!!!
I was NOT like that while I was married. I was arrogant, opinionated, negative, and not an involved father. So you see...the No More Mr Nice Guy book is not exactly what I need.

My kids have been away for 2 weeks with their mom. Every few days they video Skype me which has made it bearable. I am so lucky that my kids keep in contact with me. When they are with me they never ever asked to contact their mother.

Yesterday I had lunch with a friend. She is my age and has lung cancer and cancer throughout her body. We had a great, fun lunch together. We told travel stories etc. When I left her I had tears steaming down my face. This time next year she will probably be not with us anymore. It's in those moments that all I want to do is be with my family and hug them so tightly.
You see we all change as we get a bit older. The simple, most pure things are what matters.

As much as I try to influence my ex we all know that people only change when they have to. Usually it takes a major life catastrophe for someone to truly look deeply into who they are and what really matters in life.

So yes, I have days of bitterness and I have days of love towards my ex. If I could be a perfect person I would forgive and just be loving to everyone I can. At least that is what the Dalai Lama is all about. Unfortunately I am not there and am still triggered easily into feelings of anger.

Behind anger is hurt.
Behind hurt is love.

Ahhhhh...I am so "flaky" now wink but it's who I want to be. It's more honest.
I was NOT like that while I was married. I was arrogant, opinionated, negative, and not an involved father. So you see...the No More Mr Nice Guy book is not exactly what I need.

I just didn't picture this at all from your posts. You have done a wonderful 180 on that. I know you wouldn't change that just to get your W back.

Are you SURE you described yourself accurately??
Well, for the most part I was critical and not so appreciative. I also was not compassionate.

Just to be clear though...I am divorced primarily because my wife lacked commitment to our marriage. Her whole life she has just done what she wanted and had a family that would pay for it.
Yes, I made mistakes, but who doesn't but there is no reason why we are divorced.

We have since gone out as a family again. We had fun but I see no love in her eyes for me.
I think if you asked my ex why we are divorced she would say we wanted different lifestyles.
Wow. WP. I'm just reading up on your sitch. It sounds an awful lot like mine -- except I'm not D'd yet. I too don't see any love in STBXW's eyes and there's no reason for the D other than she doesn't "feel" love for me anymore. The commitment part -- well, those were just words.
Yah, it's seems to be a common theme in today's disposable culture.
Everything and anything can just be tossed away.
I just wanted to thank you guys for your posts, your honesty, and for putting into words all the feelings I too, have. Divorce creates such a lonely place for the LBS, and children, and there is little understanding from those that have not experienced the "amputation" that we were forced to experience.
Well, happy to help anyway we can.

Ya, there are many books out there by WAS that speak of how great life is etc.
There are really not too many books out that talk of the pain, loneliness and loss of our families.
Maybe it's time for a LBS (husband) to write a book. wink
Hi, I've just read your whole story because we share much in common. My ex also has family money and is beautiful and never looked back and is loving her new life and lets me be the great dad and I ask the same questions as you do, over and over. It's been three years now for me and I still ride the same roller coaster and have to see her more often than I would like because of kid events and kid hand offs. I was hoping to get to the end of your story and find a way to deal with my latest discovery, but alas, you, like me, haven't gotten there yet. However, I wanted to add something that may have no bearing on your sitch but as it might, maybe we could work through it together. SO, yesterday, I dropped off the kids stuff at our old house as scheduled but left my phone in a backpack. When I returned unannounced an hour later to get it, she was in the bedroom with a friend of mine. I didn't see him, just his car but, it was enough to satisfy my suspicions and allow a new kind of thinking about how my 3 year story really has been playing out. Her unbelievable ability to reject our perfect family this whole time has been because she has been madly in love with my friend and nothing else mattered. She and he have been hiding it this whole time and probably for some time before that. The waves of emotion are huge but I've become such an expert of my version of DB that I imagine that I will continue to act as I do. Being kind, and fun, and funny and the best father. I can only hope that this latest discovery can help me to see her for who she really is and not as the perfect partner I continue to hold on to, but I doubt it, as I move incredibly slow in this respect.
My reason for dumping this on you is because I believe that there must be a reason that your ex is able to move on without looking back. Her heart was probably already taken care of before you found out. She is probably the person that you fell in love with but during the early years with the kids she allowed herself to fall in love elsewhere. I realize that this is a harsh accusation and I don't know you or her and I may have crossed the line, but the questions that we share are the same.
What would you do? So far, I have done nothing. Her response to my first ever unannounced visit was to bring the kids over unannounced three hours later and act only a bit oddly as if she was trying to make sure that I had seen nothing and make sure she still had control. But something inside is finally dying, I hope. I refer to your several exclamations of being over it. I, like you, don't expect her to wake up any time soon especially because she has been having a blast these last years. The man of her dreams and an ex who overcompensates with the kids giving her more freedom than she ever imagined.
A side note here, when she and the kids showed up it was moments after a beautiful lady had just left and I almost had to deal with explaining it to the kids and reveling in the reaction of my ex, who most likely would have been relieved. I hate dating. I am not ready, but I do it as a GAL. It goes, great date, bad date, mostly because I bring up my ex to try create a safe distance between anyone trying to get close. Avoid it at all costs.

Anyhoo, thanks for sharing your story and I hope you will continue to write as things get better with time. If you can get there, than maybe I can follow your path.

There was one story I found in here about a guy named Persistence or something that waited 5 years and finally turned it around. I've fixated on his story throughout my 3 years. My family and friends and therapist think I'm nuts, and his story is about all I have to hold on to now. I don't know if it's real, or placed there by some nerd who thought it would be funny to waste my life waiting but I'm sure I would do this anyway.

Hang in there, enjoy the good stuff, and thanks again.
Hi Lucas,

Ohhhhh, thanks for writing.
When my ex gave me the "I love you but am not in love with you" speech, there were a couple of guys that she for sure had an emotional affair with and most probably had a physical affair with.

My ex has never turned back but occasionally suggests doing stuff all together. The next time she suggests that, I am just going to ask her why?

Ya, I think if I had the harsh reality that you faced it would probably help me a bit. Yes, I am still deeply woven in all of it still.

I hate to say this but this seems to be an all too common story when beautiful women are involved. They constantly have men after them. It seems like they always keep an eye open for a better opportunity.
I am very close friends with a fairly well known actress. She always complains to me that she wants to settle down and have a family yet always has a couple of guys on the go.

Here is a typical week for me....Saturday night my ex drops off our kids. She brings me some cake she baked and walks right into my house. Even hangs around for a few minutes as I can tell she wants to.
This morning I had to drop something off at her house and she is cold and distant and could care less that I am there.

I wish there was something I could say to you as well to make all of this easier to deal with but I can't.

Please feel to write anytime as it seems like we share so much.
Thanks, I was sure in a state that day. I've calmed down a bit since. One day at a time, I suppose. Sometimes when I freak out, I try to remember that nothing has changed for her. I can go through all of the peaks and valleys and she is still disconnected. Sometimes that helps.


My therapist, (thanks, ex, never thought I need one of those) asked me yesterday what I was waiting for. I didn't say frontal lobotomy, or serious car accident, or life threatening illness but I was thinking all of those things. Surely there has to be something that would bring her back. Guess I better keep going to therapy, right?

Good days to you and I'll check in later. Oh, I know an actress as well. She's married and I swear she comes on to me. I hate that. What a world.

Thanks again,
Ha,

Ya, we all have up and down days. One day I hate her the next I miss her.

My friend the actress was one of my closest friends. When my W left the actress totally hit on me and suggested that we should get married.
6 months later she had become best friends with my ex and no longer talks to me. Oh ya, my ex was an actress at one time too.

I am at the point where I ready to tell my ex that I no longer wish to have the contact we have. My ex has her own life now but yet still wants to know about what the kids are up to when they are with me.

Here is what I am going to write to her the next time she wants to know what's going on with the kids:
"love and miss you and our kids very much. My family is the most important thing in the world. It makes everything I do deeply mingingfull.

We are a family, PERIOD.
Families do whatever needs to be done when there are times of trouble. When there is any problem in a family everything gets placed on the back-burner so the issues can be worked though.
EVERY family has challenges. What keeps them together is commitment and a value system. I believe 100% in my family and would do what needs to be done for my family.

You have made a decision to not work on our family. That is your decision alone.
What I will no longer do is participate in the situation the way it is.
^^^ The sentiment is right. But it is too long.

Make it short and to the point.

Find something that can become your "mantra". Something that is true about your sitch.

So when she has a million different responses, you just repeat it to her.

Here is mine: "Mature, rational adults do not abandon thier families for "stupid reasons." "

(because my H loves to say we are getting a D for the "stupidest reasons ever".)

Keep going after her with the truth!!
Hello LO,

Ya, I am just getting fed up.
One minute she is all happy and being nice to me and the next she is cold.
I just feel like telling her "don't give me attitude, you are the one that left" !
But I am just feeling bitter right now. This bitterness passes and then I miss her.
The more she is cold to me that more I don't like her which makes all of this easier.

My 7.5 year old daughter is now learning how to email me. It is so cute and wonderful ! Although I am not a big fan of technology it's so great to be able to talk to my daughter directly whenever I want.

Ya, I agree that my message should just be to the point. I will consider your suggestion.

Hope you are doing ok LO
Hanging in there WP. I am still DBing. Ever read any of Gucci's stuff? I am finding his words to be more in tune to my sitch--I have tried the "being nice" and it doesn't get me anywhere.

But being tough and strong and not taking his BS? Has been getting me some very interesting results. And sometimes it's quite funny!

I do have to say though--a lot of the veterans think this really isn't a R to save. My H is just....spiritually he is bankrupt. He has always been moody and negative. Always benn hypercritical. Always filled with false pride. I wanted him bad when I first met him. I can't get up that kind of desire for him, and without it...I know I kept things together all these years and he was just along for the ride....

My dad died a 2 weeks ago. He wasn't great, but he wasn't too bad either. People just do their best I guess. This world is not perfect. The funeral was Sunday and someone came out of the woodwork and has expressed interest in me. I am floored, flattered, and repulsed all in the same instant.lol. But for once I thought....maybe there could be someone else that would be a better fit someday...

It's crazy, isn't it? Love your kids to pieces. Learn to text (that is coming next!!) It is wonderful to send my S a message any time I want to (and my H doesn't do texting!!lol. )

And no matter what--it doesn't hurt to leave them with a few truth darts to ponder....
Hi LO,

I am soooo very to hear of your father's passing.
Sometime's when I think of my kids it makes me so sad to know that one day I too shall pass. My kids will be devastated as I am so close with them and we do everything together.

You know...I have to tell you something. I USED to be exactly the same as your husband. I am not kidding ! It took losing my family for me to change everything. People can change but it usually takes a life altering event to make them want to change. Sometime they never change.

I too have been on some dates but all it does is make me miss my family and the life I used to have.

I have a question for you. I just got a text from my ex asking if I could drive the kids to school on Monday morning. My ex has an early meeting.
Normally I jump at the opportunity to see my kids any extra time. I am wondering if I should start to say no to my ex when she asked about these favours?
Thoughts?
WP, when you tell me you were like my H, I don't know what direction you should be going--I hope you understand.

My H lost all respect for me when I made my weak attempt to straighten him up. He cried, begged a little, and I quickly forgave him and with no work on his part at all, he was "back".

And worse than ever. I wonder....if your W didn't save you ultimately. Because my H is truly a miserable person. And I think hates me for not being stronger.

My fist instinct was to tell you to do something different (and send her a quick mysterious "Sorry, can't do it this Monday").
I spoke to a few of my divorced friends about the Monday request just to hear what they had to say.
The concensus was to drive the kids for 2 reasons. 1) it's an opportunity to see my kids. 2) there will be a time when I will need to call upon her to help me out with the kids.

Notice, I am not doing this to try to be the nice guy. I am just doing it for reasons that suit me.

As far as what direction I should be going......I just try to work on being more appreciative and compassionate. To not be affect by others and do the best I can. That is a huge change from where I used to be.

Again, all we can do through all of this is GAL and move forward the best we can.

We little girl phoned me this morning and asked if I would come to her street party today. How can I say now to my little girl.
smile
It doesn't sound like it is "over". Be patient. Be loving without expectations of anything being returned in kind. You are still fighting for your entire family.
Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it.

Who knows what will happen?
Last week she told me she does not love me the way she needs to and the way I need her to, to get back together.
This week we had a major conflict with my daughter at school. My XW and I went and met with the principle. We ended up emailing each other at length about values and how we are raising our children.
Here is what my EX wrote:
"When stuff like this comes up, and even yesterday with the principle, it reaffirms for me that you and I are on the same page. We share the same concerns and the same values for the kids and we approach things in very much the same way. Thank goodness for all of that. We really are great parents and we really do have great kids!!!

((((Me))))"


So yes, I continue to solider on.
I could be completely wrong but it appears that she is looking for confirmation that she has chosen the right course. Her concern with her being viewed as a good parent seems to be important to her. And the fact that she was seeking to have you recognize that (or otherwise she wouldn't be voicing it to you) would make it appear that it is important what you think about her. She probably already thinks you are a great parent with it being important that you are raising the kids together.

I read once that the chance of a marriage reconciliation is over when both parties decide to give up.

I respect that you continue to soldier on. Your kids will know how much their father loves their mother by the courage you are showing.
The truth is I wanted to say to her:
"Good parents stay in a committed marriage since statistics show that children of divorce are more likely to have a lot of problems when they get older. (this was a quote another poster suggested to me).

My XW was feeling closer to me. That is why she ended the email with hugs.
I figured it was not a time to lay into her so I took the kind/compassionate route.
This is what I wrote:
I am glad you have feelings like that. It makes me feel closer to you.

The truth is what makes me feel closer is not that we share similar views...it's that we care enough to talk to each other and work through things. It means a lot to me. Open communication are the key to everything and can solve anything. Sometimes in life people are scared to openly communicate for fear of the response they might get.
I will always listen."

You have to understand that in the past I would never listen. We did not have 2 way communications at all. It usually was me pushing my opinion.

As the saying goes..."you can't change anyone's mind. They are on their own journey and have to figure things out on their own".

I just try to be kind and compassionate. In life now, those 2 values are important to me.
My kids know how much our family means to me. They know how much I value marriage and they know that I love their mother. That they know 100%.
They also know that their mother does not want to work on our family.

I am very, very close with my kids.
You are correct that children are impacted by divorce. In my experience, I haven't seen kids that are impacted by divorce. Before this happened, my kids were quite different. They are still great kids but their opinions about marriage lasting has changed. They were pretty happy children and thought that mom and dad were very close.

I think they will be okay but the scars are there. I am hopeful that they will not repeat the mistakes that their mother and I have made.

Keep the faith buddy.
Ya, I am from divorce as well and there is nothing good for kids.
My kids have the absolute best situation given that we are divorced. They love their 2 different lives and households.
My XW occasionally asks for us to all do stuff together.

It's f-ed up. Everyone around us asks why we are divorced when they see us.
We are a divorced couple that does everything like we are married yet we are divorced.

You keep the faith as well. We all have to stick together and support each other.
For most love is such a strong bond.

I came to this web site for support, and I feel there is a lot of good support.

I have not read your sitch, but from what I have seen your XW has the comfort of a relationship without being responsible for you and your needs. She is using kids as that glue for that R.

Prayer for me is a big part of my life but since going through what I have gone through, I pray now for myself and everyone on here.

My W was to see a L today and am just preparing myself for the worst. Last night we were talking and she commented on how she thinks that we will still do holidays and family events as that a family. IDK if this was the right thing to say to her, I told her that if we are not married after this Christmas I cannot see us doing any family event together. IDK if I can even stay friends with her. I know that it is not in the DB spirit, but my life needs to away from W drama. I love her to much to continually allow her to hurt me.

R U finding XW to be walking back toward U and a R? R U GAL/Detach? I ask for you and myself.
Hello HIL,

I can tell you I don't have the answers. I wish I did.

No, my XW is not walking back towards me at all BUT she does keep connected to me. Somedays she is cold and some days she will send ((((hugs)))) in emails.

She thinks we are great parents (LOL). The truth is we are the best divorced couple I know. My kids have the best life they could have, given the situation.
My 7 and 5 year are starting to have trouble at school. Of course my XW thinks that's just normal. I am from divorce and I know it's a direct symptom of the situation.

The big factor in my situation is that my XW is from an extremely wealthy family and my XW is very pretty, successful, physically fit etc. She has it all and a non-stop group of friends etc.
She owns her own house and cottage now.

She really does not need me at all.

I drive my kids to school and have extra nights with them when she is travelling for work. I have debated many times not being available but concluded I would rather have the extra time with my kids instead of trying to make it difficult for her.

I have been out with her and our kids a number of times and I can tell you 100% (for me) that it is not very good. Most of the time she is guarded and it's heartbreaking to be standing next to her and be treated like a stranger. The next day is also awful as it plays havoc of your self-esteem. I also end up missing her and my kids even more.

I am not sure how it will be for you to spend holidays together but maybe you should try a few times to see how she reacts.

The next time my EX suggests we do something all together I am just going to ask her "why"?

Just keep coming to these boards to read.
Every once and awhile someone will post something that you may save to read.

Here is something someone else posted that sometimes helps me:

There are people who can walk away from you.

And hear me when I tell you this! When people can walk away from you: let them walk.

I don't want you to try to talk another person into staying with you, loving you, calling you, caring about you, coming to see you, staying attached to you. I mean hang up the phone.

When people can walk away from you let them walk. Your destiny is never tied to anybody that left.

People leave you because they are not joined to you. And if they are not joined to you, you can't make them stay.

LET THEM GO!

And it doesn't mean that they are a bad person it just means that their part in the story is over. And you've got to know when people's part in your story is over so that you don't keep trying to raise the dead.

You've got to know when it's dead.

You've got to know when it's over. Let me tell you something. I've got the gift of goodbye. It's the tenth spiritual gift, I believe in goodbye. It's not that I'm hateful, it's that I'm faithful, and I know whatever God means for me to have He'll give it to me. And if it takes too much sweat I don't need it. Stop begging people to stay.

LET THEM GO!

If you are holding on to someone that doesn't belong to you and was never intended for your life, then you need to...

LET THEM GO!

If you are holding on to past hurts and pains...

LET IT GO!

If someone can't treat you right, love you back, and see your worth...

LET THEM GO!

If someone has angered you...

LET THEM GO!

If you are holding on to some thoughts of evil and revenge...

LET THEM GO!

If you are involved in a wrong relationship or addiction...

LET THEM GO!

If you are holding on to a job that no longer meets your needs or talents...

LET IT GO!

If you have a bad attitude...

LET IT GO!

If you keep judging others to make yourself feel better...

LET IT GO!

If you are struggling with the healing of a broken relationship.......

LET IT GO!

If you keep trying to help someone who won't even try to help themselves...

LET THEM GO!

If you're feeling depressed and stressed...

LET IT GO!

Get Right or Get Left, think about it, and then...

LET THEM GO!
Don't get me wrong my feelings change each day.
One day I am angry and feel I deserve better, the next day I miss my XW and the next miss my kids terribly. I always miss my kids.

I had to email back and forth today about Halloween costumes. I have the kids on Halloween weekend but they are going trick or treating with my XW.
She wrote "If you want to come around with us you are more than welcome!"

I just never know if I should go anymore. On one hand I welcome any extra chance to be with my kids. My kids would love me to come.
At the same time I feel that it sends a message to my XW that this is all just fine, when it's NOT.
Michele says accept some invites but not all. I get invited about once every 6 weeks. Most of the time my ex is cold when I am with her. It leaves me feeling so empty and heartbroken the next day.

Anyone want to chim in about me going trick or treating with my kids?
I know many of you out there are saying that "you wished you could hang with your X, but let me tell you it is not easy ! It's so hard to hang with them knowing they feel nothing towards you. All I want to do is hug my 2 kids and XW and never let go.
BTW I have a typical WAW with all the trimmings.;)
So I have my kids this upcoming weekend.
On Halloween (Sunday) I have to take my kids to my XW house. It's her turn this year to take the kids trick or treating.
My XW in an email back and forth on the weekend wrote this " If you want to come around with us you are more than welcome!"

Should I go?
I will have had a great Halloween weekend with my kids already. I worked with both my kids to make them their costumes, etc.

I am just wondering if this is one of those times when I should politely say "no thanks" to my XW.

Thoughts ???

BTW my XW is travelling on business this Wednesday. I am picking the kids up from her place and driving them to school as she is going to be away.
My XW has asked if I could watch their dog while she is away. WTF ?
If she makes you feel bad, I would not go.
Ya, it's funny. A lot of us want our Xs to invite us to something. Then when it happens we struggle with it.
In the past times I have been with my X she has been very neutral when we are out with our kids.
The next day I am left feeling really empty.
It's nice to spend time as a family but it leaves me wanting more.

I think really the issue is that I agree to get together with expectations. I hope that when I see her she is happy for us to be together as a family.
As we are all told we need to have no expectations. It is really hard not to have expectations.
Posted By: JMC Re: 2 years later it's still not getting easier - 10/27/10 05:19 PM
Quote:
Ya, it's funny. A lot of us want our Xs to invite us to something. Then when it happens we struggle with it.

I agree. Our daughter recently married her high school sweetheart. About five weeks before the wedding my ex-w sent me an email (after receiving my check for the agreed upon amount) that was very happy oriented and suggested we all get together for dinner and go over the ceremony, etc.. Although I have always wanted her to reach out, at this time I responded in a somewhat distant tone. She suggested again. I guess my feeling was that why should we pose as a happy loving family when she is living with one of the people who helped her destroy anything that a family should resemble. However, for my daughter's sake I responded with a few dates that might work. I guess by this time my ex was annoyed enough to agree with my original suggestion that we could discuss at the rehearsal. Ultimately it was a wonderful and beautiful event, but it would have been better had we been a couple, or at the very least had the OM and some of his friends/family not been there.
Ya, it's their lack of sensitivity and/or selfishness that drives what they do.
My ex probably wants me to come along to show the kids that we are all friends now. I believe she thinks it will make what she did to our family ok.

The bottom line is us LBS have to decide if we want to go to these events for our kids.
We can't worry what the motivation is of our Xs.

My daughter is home sick with me today. She asked me if I was going to come trick or treating with her. Ahhhhh how can I say no to that. She is only 7.

On a happy note I am taking my kids to the session opening basketball game tonight.
Toronto Raptors ! We have gone for the last two years.
Posted By: JMC Re: 2 years later it's still not getting easier - 10/28/10 01:15 PM
Quote:
Ya, it's their lack of sensitivity and/or selfishness that drives what they do.

Yep - midlife crisis, narcissism..who knows. Bottom line, my ex had a dysfunctional childhood that lacked love (angry father who was a functional alcoholic, mother who died while my ex was 17 & pregnant, father died a few years later). I have simply come to believe that dysfunctional childhoods more often than not lead to dysfunctional adulthoods.

I agree that we LBS have to suck it up and do a lot of things for our kids. Hope you had a great time at the Raptors game.

On a side note, one of my best friends is from Toronto and several years ago we spent some time at his parent’s cabin on Lake Muskoka - beautiful!
IMO, if your wife is sincerely wanting you to be there, I would. If it is simply to be there for your kids, I would be there. And I agree about letting go but letting go doesn't mean its over. It means that you love someone enough to let them do what they feel they need to do.

A huge concern for anyone, including me, is to be considered a door mat. While I would watch my wife's dog, I won't buy her a dog. While I would help her, if asked, to move a sofa or hang a picture, I won't buy her a sofa. I am not worrying about the consequences of her actions because that is not up to me. I will choose to show her unconditional love because I promised that I would love her in sickness and in health, in good times and in bad (and isn't separation and divorce the epitome of bad?) but there are times when I can be getting in the way of what has to happen in order for her to progress through MLC or whatever she is going through.

I no longer believe in "tough love". I tried that (and I don't think that is what Michele espouses) and it smacked me right in the face. Instead, I considered how I would treat someone if they were going through an addiction or a mental illness. It isn't up to me to tell her she has an addiction or a mental illness but I can choose whether I can lovingly be there for her in small ways where I am not trying to manipulate the situation. Honestly, most of us, me included, have a nature of wanting others to feel the pain we are in. It is an opposite reaction for me to assist someone who has hurt me when asked.

My wife rarely asks me to help her. She is very proud. When she does, I consider reasons to help her and reasons why I shouldn't help her. I don't help her financially because, while I am not poor, I have my own financial burdens. And she hasn't asked for financial assistance.

Something my mom always tells me when I am feeling rather negative about something my wife has done or said is "do not focus on the circumstances because you have no idea what is really happening". She is right. I don't know what is happening.

We have all been told that this can be a very long term process while our spouses are making this weird odyssey. If we react to each positive and negative circumstance, it will drive us crazy.

A lot of people may disagree with me, but my recommendation is to love your wife. I'm not saying to say it (definitely do not unless your relationship with her is okay with that) but demonstrate it with acts of genuine expressions of love without expectation of anything in return. In my situation, it is limited to picking up the kids for her when she is feeling sick or very tired.

My point is, if you want to go to the halloween party, I would go. If she wants you there and you start saying no, she may quit asking. Depending upon her personality, if she feels you have moved on, she may decide she is interfering and won't ask anymore. She may build up walls between the two of you.

It is encouraging that people think you two are still together because the amount of time you spend together. If those questions don't bother your wife, then that is a good thing.
I was just pulling out of the driveway after dropping off my kids.
When I read what you wrote I picked up the phone and called my X to ask if I can come.
She said absolutely.

I have to say your post was the best posts I have ever read.
I can't thank you enough for writting such a fantasic note.
It will give me so much to think about.

I can't write a more detailed response right now but will when I get a chance.
Ok, so I went out with my kids and XW trick or treating.
It was really nice. IThe kids were through the roof happy that I came along. My X was very aware how happy they were.
My X was able to see how close I am with my kids. The kids and I have a very loving relationship.
After I hung out and watched the kids divide up the candy and then left.

My X and I texted a few times after the event and both said we had fun.

Feeling a bit empty today and my kids are with her. It sort of goes along with the experience to feel down the next day. I just want more...but that is not to happen.

Oh ya, on Saturday I took my kids to the symphony for their first time. It was a great evening for us !
My X went to a Halloween party dressed up as cop in a really dirty costume.
It was heartbreaking to hear that. She is still craving attention.
frown
My XW has gone back to being cold and distant to me again.
Seems like this is a common pattern for these WAW's.

Tonight I am taking my daughter to see the Carrie Underwood concert. We are soooo fortunate, we are going back stage to do a meet and greet with Carrie.

My 7 year old daughter is a very lucky little girl. She has meet Taylor Swift and Kelly Pickler as well.

Just have to continue to try to just focus on my kids.

I will tell you hearing that my XW was at a Halloween party dressed in a slutty cop costume has really, really upset me. What happened to the girl I married ?
whitneypinch - I just read parts of your thread and it really resonated with me because I am the same way with my H. We will be D'd officially on Jan 13. I filed because he continually said he didn't want to be my H, but didn't want to file either. He said he wanted the family, but not the marriage. I finally filed when I got a postcard from his travel agent that was a thank you for booking a trip and it was addressed to H and OW sent to my house.

Anyway, that is the short of my story, but what I like about what I am reading with you is that I am also very "friendly" with my H. We will text about S all the time. We even spend S's birthday together and went to a college football game together because I didn't want to miss out on S's first game. It is always hard for me because H and I get along great, and I can't understand why he doesn't want to make it work.

Saying that, I did last night set a boundary for H and I. He wants to bring up sentimental things every once in a while and be buddy-buddy with me. I told him that it had to stop because it hurts me too much. He will go a week of talking almost every day and other weeks of nothing. I said I will talk to him every day about S and do things with him and S, but beyond being good coparents, I don't want to know anything else. We will still get along great, but there is a boundary that I don't want to cross because it hurts me, and I think it is only when H is being ignored by OW (she is still married).

I completely understand what you are going through and glad to feel some support through your post. S has a great D life in that H and I work together all the time, and it sounds like that you what you are doing too. I wish you the best.

missing - I also like what you put. I would still help H out if he needed help and he will do the same for me, but I won't be responsible for him anymore. I agree with always loving your spouse. I will listen to H when he talks about work or wants to vent, but I draw the line at talking about sentimental things like how the watch that I got him for our anniversary broke.
Hi awest1217,

Thanks for the post.

Ya, this is a hard journey to go through.

One of the things that I struggle the most with is that I do so many amazing experiences with my kids. Every time I do that I have pangs that my XW is not with us. I always end up sending photos to my ex.

I don't get it either...we had such a great night on Halloween and I want more of those. She on the other hand has gone cool to me again.

Oh well, we just move forward.

BTW the Carrie Underwood concert last night was incredible. My daughter and I got to meet Carrie backstage before the show. It was lot's of fun.
Hi WP,

I just finished reading the whole thread... I too have been divorced close to 2 years now, I am also a father of 2 wonderful boys ages 11 and 7. I don't want to sound like I know everything and I won't claim to be an expert. All the advice that has been given are good and as I read you did follow most of them. Based on what I have read, it seems that for every invitation that you receive I observed that you feel down after the event. May I suggest that what ever you have decided to do or not to do... is to not to attach any "Expectations" to it. Most of the time if there are "Expectations" attached to a deed... and somehow you don't get the "Results" it brings out your "Feeling down/empty" afterwards.

You can say yes to every invitation but have "Zero" expectations. I believe you need to go back to basics and practice "Detachment". You are not yet in a place where you can interact with your ex without getting hurt after wards.

Try to be the best dad you can be without expecting any "brownie points" from your XW (sort of like a "pat in the back"). Do it for the kids and you nothing else. "Accept" that this is already your situation and "Let Go and Let GOD" do the rest. I was given an advice before... that "as long as you do your best and leave the rest to GOD" then and only then you will see what is really meant for you. Blessings will start to show up. Sometimes we as human beings get caught up with all our accomplishments and think that we actually did it by ourselves. We lose track that God helped us along the way of our accomplishments. We become too proud, and forget to thank him and give at least a small credit to him... sometimes don't even acknowledge that he even exist.
Thanks so much for taking the time to read and reply to my post.

I hear you 100% about expectations. As we are know it's not easy on any of us.
It's hard as human beings not to have hope. Hope sometimes comes in the form of expectations.

Today I got a call out of the blue on a project that I have been working on.
It's funny, after I received the call I was thinking fate has a way of showing up when you least expect it.

I am not a religious person but I do understand everything is for a reason.
Just not so clear what that reason is yet wink
@movinonORnot - excellent points. I have to say it took me forever to detach and not expect a "pat on the head". Once I have, it became much easier (and also I felt more love toward my life instead of resentment).

@whitney - If you can successfully detach (without losing the desire to restore your family/marriage), I think you will enjoy the moments with your wife and children more without feeling the highs and lows so often. Praying for you, your wife and your children.
Thanks so much for the reply. I really do appreciate hearing from everyone.

I am trying hard to detach.
The truth is I start to gain some distance and that's about when I get sucked back in.

I am still dealing with a high level of resentment.

My heart goes out to all of you parents who are separated from your children.
WP, I just read through your thread, it would seem like some others, my sitch is very similar to yours. I struggle with some of the very same feelings as you. My x has just filed a few weeks ago and it will finalize in a month or so, but we have been seperated nearly 3 years. I am working on the same things like letting go and detaching, yet I still love my wife and family and ultimately hope that things may work out. It is without a doubt the hardest thing to do...... detach and hope at the same time. Unfortunately we do not have a friendly co-parenting relationship. And to be honest I do envy that. Thank-you for continuing to post and to the others who reply with such good advice. It has given me hope for myself that things can get better for me, even if the M is over. Many times I have felt that I am the only one who respects the vows we took, and sees the effects of this on the kids. (who have had a really hard time with this). It is comforting to know that there are others out there, going through the same things.
Hello Nvrgivup,

Thanks for posting. My heart goes out to you. It is a very difficult struggle.

I just want you to know that it is not easy having a friendly relationship with my EW. Many times I wished we did not talk at all.
As an example; last night my EW and my kids video Skyped me. It was so nice to see everyone but then it left me with an empty feeling today. It left me with feeling resentful in the morning and sad by the end of the day. What kind of a life is this that I get to see my family on my computer.
I am trying really hard to be thankful that I did get to see them as many of you don't even get that.

The people in piecing must have a really hard time. All the negative feelings must come flowing out as they have been suppressed for so long.

Lately I have been feeling like just telling my XW to just leave me alone.
Two nights ago I got a text from her telling me how much she loves the new Taylor Swift CD. I too like TS and have met her. I wrote my EW back agreeing that the new CD was good and suggested a few other artists that she should check out. Of course I never heard back from my EW.

You see how this all goes. My XW drops in and then when I try to spark up a conversation she disappears. That is why I am getting to the point of telling her not to contact me anymore.

Each day is a different one....
Well I applaud the effort. Though I don't have nearly as much contact with mine right now as you seem to, I know exactly how you feel. For the last 3 years it has been exactly the same for me, I get sucked in by a message or conversation, I reply, try to continue a conversation etc, then boom she shuts it off and never responds. I will say that since I was served a few weeks ago, I have had zero contact. And feel like just saying leave me alone. But I know I need to be friendly for the kids sake, and am working towards that. We switch the kids every Friday, and I hope one of these Fridays I'll be able to smile, ask how she is, and "chat"? But as I've read above, it the expectations that are the killer, and I'm trying to get those out of my life.
"each day is a different one" thats for sure.

Thanks WP, appreciate the support. Fellow Canadian too! Always a good thing!
Ok, well here we go again.

So this weekend I have my kids. My XW is going away to NYC. She is coming home on Monday.
I let her know that I will keep the kids until Tuesday morning.
She informed me that she wants them back on Monday night. We had a few email debates over this point and then she suggested that on Monday that I come out to dinner with her and the kids and then hang out with them. Ok.

I then suggested to her that the kids and I could pick her up at the airport on Monday. She loved that idea.

I also mentioned to her about a big event that the kids and I are going to on the 27th and that the kids wanted her to come with us. She said she wanted to came as well but she would have to leave at 7:45 pm to go to a party. (arrrggg)
The event fireworks start at 8:00 and then there is skating afterwards. Those really are the specific events that the kids and I wanted her to come to. I told her that maybe it was better that she did not come as the kids would be disappointed that she had to leave before the fireworks. She said ok, and that she was sorry she could not be there.

Ok, so I know all of you are saying to yourselves "wow, this sounds great so far".

Later this afternoon I sent her a note saying that I appreciated how she handled the situation today. That she was able to defuse a situation and turn it into something nice. This is a 180 for me as I never showed her much appreciation in our marriage.

Ok, to summarize..... The kids and I are picking her up at the airport and hanging out for the evening and she accepted an offer to come out with us another night (I cancelled).

So....here is her response to my email of appreciation:
"Thanks. I'm happy it turned out this way too and that you feel good about it. This is always my goal with us! Everyone benefits".

I know her..... this note basically says "I am glad you feel good, I feel nothing other than it's great that we are all friendly".

You know what, I just don't think I can have interaction with this person and not have expectations and hope. How the hell can you not have expectations when the person is offering to hang out.

Am I just not getting all of this? This is just cruel. Maybe this is the extreme patience I am supposed to have.....I don't know, someone help me out.
I need a big 2x4 to the side of the head.

My XW knows I still love and miss her. She knows I want us to be a family....

Should I be telling her we should not be hanging out at all?
Arrrrrggg, just don't know what to do. I have read so much about being friends with the EX and that sometimes it blossoms into romantic attraction again.
Is this how that plays out or is my XW just cake eating?

Who the "F" picks up their XW at the airport and hangs out doing stuff?
Whitney, I have to say, and this is not my preaching but sharing about me, I don't know how I would cope without giving this up to God. Again, I am talking about me and not anyone else as I say this. I have been a Christian for a pretty long time but you sure couldn't tell by how I conducted myself. Yes, my family was more important than most other things in my life but personally I was selfish. Even when my wife told me she wanted to leave, knocking the wind out of me because I never would have thought we would ever separate let alone divorce, I started to "use" God to try and get her back instead of putting Him first. It wasn't until I realized that I was missing the whole point, i.e. having a real relationship with Him, all my other relationships were really one-sided. When I say one-sided, I was trying to control everyone else because it was about how I wanted to be treated and what I could get out of the relationships. I was really, really nice to people overall but it was so I would get something back. If a person wasn't reciprocating, I get hurt and angry.

For me, when I started reading scripture, it became a users manual of how God expected us to treat others and how to act, inside and out. With God, you can't be fake. Before this happened, I knew some basic rules about what He expected but I chose what I wanted and threw out the rest.

Whitney, what I am saying is, I don't know how to tell you how to handle the situation with your wife except from what I have read out of scripture. I know that I promised God (and my wife) that I would love her and protect her until the day one of is no longer living regardless of what happens. I reread my vows and it told me to do these things in sickness and in health, for better and for worse, etc. I couldn't see anywhere where it said to me that I will only do these things as long as she adheres to her promises. In fact, as I was rereading my vows, I realized that even though I was facing my wife, I was telling God that I promised Him I would be forever faithful.

When I read what your wife is doing, I can't know why she is doing those things. Could she be using you? Maybe. I am responding as if I were you and your wife was my beloved wife that I miss with every fiber of my being. I would hate for her to leave our family to go to a party but at the same time, I would cherish the time we spend together. And I can't help but think that somehow, inside your wife she will eventually see how empty the party life is and that when all is said and done, family is what is most important. The challenge is that she is a child again at this time and will act like a child.

I have to go for now and I seriously hope that sharing how I am dealing with my sitch, isn't making you or anyone else who reads this uncomfortable. It is just that I can admit there is no way I could be handling this on my own.

MMF
Hi MMF,

I am not religious at all BUT I do get a lot out of your posts.
It does help me put things into perspective and sometimes alters how I look at things.

Many times in business the smartest business people surround themselves with other smart people. I view these board this way. Sometimes we need to hear the perspective of others so that we can see clearly.

So thanks again for the post.
Hi WP,

I don't know if this helps or if it is perhaps just another perspective, but I thought I'd share it. I am not particularly religious either, but like you, I enjoy and get something out of posts like the one from MMF. For me I look at the vows I took, and view them as a promise or even a covenant I made with myself. I promised myself that I would be faithful "till DDUP" that I would remain committed in good times and bad (and divorce is as bad as it gets as another poster mentioned). I guess what I'm saying is that whether you have made that promise to God or to your spouse or to yourself, in the end it is you who makes that decision, and ultimately you are accountable to yourself for how much or how long you decide to commit to it. What is so unfortunate in our world today is the weight put on selfishness. It is encouraged, rewarded and respected. Remaining hopeful, or committed is not an easy path. It is fraught with tough emotions, fear, and disappointment. Your position will be questioned, frowned upon and perhaps even condemned by others. But with the bigger risk, comes the potential for bigger reward (and bigger failure too obviously). The thing with DBing is that no matter how it turns out, you will be a better person for it. As so many here including Michele have said. You have to follow and trust in the process for sure, you have to be patient, you have to mitigate your losses. It is about doing for yourself, without being selfish. I know for me it is really starting to help me not worry as much about "what does she mean by this" or "Is this a little sign?" Ya just can't worry about it. We cant control what our ex's do, only how we respond. And if we are taking care of ourselves, we are in a stronger position to respond the right way. And right now thats all its about. Be good to the kids, be good to yourself, and try to enjoy everything as much as you can. Put your faith wherever its best suited to who you are. For MMF its in God, for you it may be in yourself, for others it may be in the DB process. And if the day comes where you just cannot hold on anymore, you will be able to look at yourself and know you did not only the best you could, but more than most, and probably more than you thought you could. And even if the world doesn't throw flowers at your feet, you will know what you did, what you endured, and most likely your kids will know. And that will have a huge payoff for you and for them.
And to MMF, just wanted to say that don't worry about being preachy or making anybody uncomfortable, the message is a good one, no matter the context. As I said I am not really religious, but that doesn't mean there isn't great wisdom in what you say.
Nvrgivup,

So well said !
Thanks again for your post. It's really nice to get a reply as "we" are the only ones that know what each other is going through.

You know, I would not have changed a thing through all of this. All of this has changed me for the better !!

Yesterday, my kids and I picked my XW up from the airport, we went to a playground, went to a movie and had dinner together.
It was so nice. My XW had her guard up and was texting on her phone most of the time but at least we were together.
Ya I guess you just take the little things and make the best of them. Its nice that you still get a little "family" time. I admit I'm a bit envious. But at the same time I do know how tough that would be, and am maybe a little glad that I don't have to struggle through something like that again. My problem was (is?) being able to do something like that without expectations. Though I have certainly progressed and hope if the opportunity presents itself someday, that I will be able to just take the time for what it is , and not expect much.
Keep your head up WP, you seem to be doing things the right way. you can be proud of that.
Thanks again, so much.

I have a friend that does not get along with her XH. She never sees him and they never do stuff together as a family. Many times she says she wishes that they were like me and my XW, in that we all do stuff together.

Let me put the records straight. It's is really not that great to be out with your XW and to see no love in her eyes. She is guarded and not the person I married.
I continue to do it as I am hoping things change.

On Monday we were out my 7 year old daughter was walking holding my hand and her mom's hand. A few times she pulled her mom's hand and mine together to get us to hold hands. Not so good....

I will continue to stay focussed on my kids and receptive to going our with my XW and see what happens.
Lately I have been feeling that it's time for me to meet someone else. This is normal and all part of the process.
Oh I get it, before the the "official" OM came into the picture, there were some times that my XW spent a little time with us. And I certainly know the feeling of being around her and seeing no love. Guarded and even a little deceptive. It is incredibly hard to feel a particular way about a person who not only doesn't feel the same way but seems to go out of her way sometimes to go overboard the other way? We lived "separated" in the same house for 2 years! Believe me I know what its like to be around that kind of situation.
I have also felt the need to meet somebody else. And have gone on a few dates. But honestly I'm not sure if I'm ready, and trying to force myself may not be the right way to go. And I do worry that the kids would have a tough time with it. They watched their mom for the last few years going out all the time, and now with a boyfriend I've seen them struggle with accepting that. Even with him around, by middle son (15) asked me the other day if I would move back into the house (we, actually she, has an empty suite in the basement) so that we could be more like a family again. I think because I remained dedicated to reconciliation for so long, and so obviously, and have basically given all my energy to the boys for so long now, that they have a certain trust and expectation that I will continue this way... it has me torn? I worry that if I got serious about somebody else I'd be betraying the trust they have in me? Its yet another hard set of decisions to make. All I know for sure is that my boys have to come first, and I'll need to figure a way to meet my own needs and balance that. It helps knowing that I'm not the only one struggling with it.
I too am dedicated to my kids 100%.

I have been on a few dates and quit frankly I would rather go out with my kids. They are not jaded and happy to go anywhere as long as we are together. They don't care how fancy a place it is. I do everything with my kids. It's so nice to be with someone genuinely excited to be there.

Ya, I have been out with my family twice in the last 2 weeks. When I drop my kids off my XW gives me a big hug now.
I have NO idea why we do all this stuff together.

I would like to hear from someone that had a WAW that stated to hang around with that lead to reconnecting. I would like to hear about the stages they went through.

I don't believe my wife is coming "towards me" but it does seem a bit odd.
I've dealt with many "odd" occurrences (I think I know exactly what you mean), and unfortunately I think its good thing that you don't believe she's coming towards you. Not that I have any idea whether she is or isn't, or if you should or shouldn't want that, I just know that for me I hoped so much that my XW might be, that I would lose track of what was more likely going on (which of course was nothing) and the expectations etc, would have me feeling like hell later. Letting go is this long and arduous process, and I know i'm not there totally yet. I sometimes have to remind myself that a text or something that "looks" a certain way is about me and how my feelings may project onto her actions? ie I want her back so I can make a text look like she wants to? But I've realized that if she did, or ever does, that it will likely be more obvious? and I can't hold my breath any longer for it.
I took my boys to see the new Harry Potter movie tonight, the movie was great, but just being with my boys made it so much better, we talked at great length about it on the way home. I hadn't been that happy in a while. Definitely better than any date.
Well.... I think I am done.

As you all know I have been out with my XW a bunch of times with our kids.
Each time I do it I want more (expectations).
I had not heard from my XW since Thursday, which is not the norm.
I was really struggling with having not seen my kids in days so I stopped by their school to say hi. I walked away broken hearted. This is so wrong that I have to go to my kids school to visit them. I should see them everyday.

Anyway, I received an email last night from my XW that my 7 year old daughter had punched my 6 year old son in the eye (gave he a black eye). We have recently started to have problems with my daughter at school as well. Probably due to our divorce, no doubt.

Anyway, I wrote a somewhat positive note to my XW about dealing with my daughter as well as some feeling I have been having.
My XW wrote back how grateful she is of our relationship and always thinks of us as a family.
That was it for me !
I very calmly and rationally explained that we would have to agree to disagree on this. I told her that we are two people living independent lives. Then I went on to describe what a real family is....blah blah blah.

The way I see it my XW comes and goes as she pleases now with no accountability to me or our family. She hangs out with me and our kids when it suits her. She contacts me when I have the kids to see how they are doing. We send each other photos of all our kids milestones etc.
ENOUGH, I desserve better !!!

My XW and I are the perfect example of a couple that should NOT be divorced.
The only problem is that my XW does not see it that way.

I think it's time for me to drop the rope.
It's also time for us to start acting like a divorced couple.
I think next time she contacts me when I have the kids I am going to calmly and firmly reply....."We are a family, if you want to be a part of this family then I welcome you to join us. If not, then can I ask you to please just focus on your own life"
Sorry WP was out of town for a week there. I totally get how you are feeling. Not seeing my kids is the hardest thing I've ever had to deal with, and especially for this reason. And as we've both said "expectations" make it even harder. I'm not totally sure what to tell you, but the idea of backing off and becoming a little more independent from her seems like it may be the right idea? I mean if you look at it from a DBing sense, you could call it a 180, or going dark, or even an LRT? I started to realize (and believe me I didn't want to) that it was my effort in trying to keep my family together that actually drove it further apart. I see it this way now, by putting in all this effort, and trying to be somewhat benevolent, I was just empowering her to continue her behavior. She could get away with anything because she knew I was there to pick up the pieces. My kids have and are struggling in school, and very obviously because of the divorce. My kids are older so the problems are a little different than yours, and probably more serious at this point. My oldest (17) dropped out last year, my 15 yr old does well on his week with me, but skips classes (or whole weeks) when he as at XW house on her week. I've tried talking to her, forming a co-parenting plan, but she is in her own world where SHE is her only priority, and after repeated failure to get on the same page, I finally just went to the schools, met with teachers and formulated a plan where my sons HW assignments etc, were rescheduled to work on my weeks, in other words we kinda cut her out of the picture.. The kicker is that she hasnt even noticed!
You and I know the divorce is wreaking havoc with our families, we both know and try our best to "hold it together" and our XW's haven't got a frickin clue and aren't going to to until some of the crap they've stepped in starts to stink a little? Right now they don't WANT to notice. I don't know if this is going to work for me yet, I don't know if it is the right advice for you. All I know is that what I've tried so far hasn't and isn't working, and it is my kids that suffer most for it. I needed to find a way to do what was best for them, without her help or even her input. And though its only been a short time, I am seeing some benefit already. And to be honest it has freed me a little too, I worry less about what she thinks, or how I can get her involved? And without that I am finding that I am feeling better. Time for myself has become important to me, not worrying that my 15 yr old is skipping all week with her, because I have a plan to help him when he's with me. I AM feeling empowered myself now, it is making a difference!
Hi there !

Thanks again for the reply.
It's funny. You and I seem to be on a similar path and similar timing.

Even though it's only been about a month I have started to initiate contact with her less and less. To tell you the truth it does make life much easier.
About the same time she has opened-up us all getting together more and more. In fact we have all done something together now each week for the last 4.

Something has come up that she wanted to do with the kids over Christmas during my time with them. I took the high road and told her that she can do the activity with them on her own. In turn she suggested that I join them.
At this point I kind of pushed back and said it was not out of the question but that I was concerned about the kid's (and mine) expectations after spending so much time together. I offered her the opportunity to speak her mind about it, to see how she feels.
Guess what.......... no response. wink

So I think I will pull back a bit.
To tell you the truth I am not missing her as much lately.

I am sorry to hear that your children are having such a tough time. Sadly it's the kids that suffer the most. Maybe there is someone professional that could help them out through these challenging times.

The more we focus on ourselves and our children the less our Xs effect us.
Well pulling back is the right thing I think, I mean could it make things worse? probably not. I think you are doing the right things, and really even if they don't seem like much, her asking to do stuff IS a really positive step! As long as you keep those expectations in check, take it as it is, and not what you want it to be, I think she'll ask for more? Seems like she is kind of already? I wish you the best my friend, Xmas with your family is fantastic!
Ya my kids have had a really hard time, and of course that effects how I feel about her and us. She couldn't have done this at worse time as far as their ages go. Younger kids have a rough time with all the changes, but they do adapt (even if its not a good thing) where my kids understood what it meant when she came home drunk at 3 am night after night, they heard her on the phone with other men, and realize what she was doing. It had a huge effect on their trust in her and respect for her... hence my 15 yr old won't go to school at her place because he doesn't respect her. Thats why it was important for me to make arrangements. He sure doesn't like the extra homework at my place but he DOES respect that I'm doing what sbest to help him succeed, and he appreciates the effort i think
Ahhh, I am so sorry to hear that is what you and your kids had to witness. It must have been heartbreaking.

I was lucky as all I saw was emotional affairs. I don't know if physical affairs occured but they may have.

All you can do is your beat with your kids. At least older kids can kind of understand it. It does not make it ok though.

I am sure we all have not heard the last of this all.
I suspect there will be more things come up sooner than later with my X.
Update.
I just had 9 of the most fantastic days alone with my kids. I am very lucky in that I get my kids on Christmas forever. My XW is Jewish.
We did so many fun things, dealt with us all being sick, had a great Christmas etc.

Over the month leading up to Christmas I had a lot of contact with XW. It's mostly about the kids but occasionally about other things. My XW and I get along fantastically. I started to get expectations every-time I spoke to her. I just can't seem to handle not having expectations. I just can't.

I start to have my phone with me everywhere hoping she will call etc. When she does not I get upset etc. Expectations are a biatch. wink

My XW now has our kids and is in Florida for a week long vacation with her family. We all used to do this every year.

I just got to the breaking point. I emailed my XW saying I just could no longer go along with these cute little emails back and forth when we have a family in ruin. I told her if she wanted to deal with our family then fine, if not I was no longer going to be a part of these cute little emails.
It's just too painful to get email photos from her of my kids on their Florida trip.
It's just too painful to see that and not be there.

I know this is probably not the best approach but for me it's easier to get through my day not expecting contact from her.

When I dropped my kids off yesterday something happened for the first time. My 7 year old daughter started crying when I was to leave. I lost it too and had tears.
I just hate to see my kids in pain. I am glad my XW saw that though.
Honestly my XW thinks this situation is great. She says she is so happy about our relationship..blah blah blah

So, we will see how this week goes while my kids are away. I am sure my kids will phone me a bunch of times.
BTW they never phone my XW when they are with me.
Wow Whitney, I have just read your thread and I don't know how you do it. My STBXH has stated from the beginning of this mess that we have a chance to make this new stage in our lives better than ever and show them what a "real family looks like".

My hat off to you for being able to spend as much time as you can as a family as I have not been able to. I would like to but I think in my situation it would confuse/hurt our daughter way too much.

I always hoped that maybe one day we could get to where you are but it doesn't seem to be any easier than where I am in turning down invitations.

Happy Holidays to you and all the best for a week filled with peace and happy memories of your Christmas with your children.
Hello fullsteamahead,

Thanks so much for the reply. I appreciate it.

Well, I tried for us to all have fun together. My XW started to suggest it so I wanted to see how it went. It was no fun. Each time I would go I would see no love in my XW eyes. Most of the time she was texted on her phone while we were together.
It left me feeling empty and wanting more. I am sure it confused my kids as well.
Many times my 7 year old daughter would pull my and my XW hands together to hold hands. Thinking back on it I am heart broken for my little daughter.

I have no more interest for us all to get together. It more fun without my x being there.

I believe you are much better off turning down invitations. Looking back I think my XW does it to ease her guilt and as a PR strategy with our kids.

I believe if an X is interested in you and/or getting back with you that they will make that intention very known. I tried being friends with my X and all it did was cause me to be stuck and hurt over and over.

I wish you luck fullsteamahead. Feel free to write me anytime.
Hello Whitney,

Wow, our situations are similar, and I understand all about developing expectations, and staying emeshed with them. He is always going beyond his responsibilites to me i.e, taking my car to be fixed, buying groceries ec t.ect., and giving me more money than the divorce awarded me. He will call me and tell me to be careful when the roads are bad, he will call me 'honey' on occasion. Because he is at my house often when I am working inorder for our son to be home ( I don't work but twice a week, but they are long hours), he also does my laundry, takes care of my dog. But, he never talks about coming home.

I am sure he is trying to relieve his guilt, and at the same time keep that tiny carrot dangling in the event that his "soulmate" doesn't show up. It has worked. I am still here, still hoping for my family to be put back together. My heart breaks for my son, for the pain he has endured, and for the years he has had half a mother due to my pain.

I am so thankful enough time has passed that I can enjoy life again, and be present for my child. Lately, not only am I enjoying life, but I am having less emotions, and feelings regarding my ex. And although that is a good thing, it is concerning also, in that I am afraid if I stop having feelings, then it is really over. Nevertheless, I have been close to telling him, like you did your ex, that I want him either to come home or stay away, but just haven't done it yet.

Thank you for sharing so much about your situation, it has helped me so much.
Hello yrsofhurt,

Thanks so much for your reply. It means a lot to me to get responses.

Of course I don't have the answers but for me I "think" having very little contact with my XW will help me through the day.

I don't even know who my X is anymore. She is so different than the person I married. Some of my friends have suggested that my X is now who she always was and that she changed to suit me when we met each other. They might be right.

A few times in the last month I have seen glimpses of my old wife. That is heartbreaking to see. I just want to reach out when I see that.

I think for most of us we hold onto a glimmer of hope. When we finally push back it's our way of saying goodbye. I believe we finally start to get our own lives back and start to realize we deserve better.

For me I just can not accept that given the chance to work on our family my XW did absolutely nothing. My 2 beautiful kids are starting to show signs of deep hurt and trouble yet my XW does nothing.

In her last note to me she said she was sorry and would always be. I am not sure that made me feel any better. I think a lot of people on this board would be grateful to hear sorry from they Xs. For me it just stung that it's really over.

I think the best thing for our x spouses to do is say over and over that they are not interested in us. I think that helps us move on. When they are being kind to us it's hard for us to tell if it's out of guilt or they are feeling warm and fuzzy towards us.

Believe it or not I am very grateful for this to have happened to me. It has gave me the greatest gift of all and that is appreciation and compassion.
It has also driven me to seek out projects with meaning to work on.

Yrsofhurt, I applaude you for having the strength to go through what you are dealing with. I hope it works out for you.
You too may find that it's too much to take and ask your XH to leave you alone.
Each case and person is different.

Please feel to write anytime.
Hey yrsofhurt,
I went and read some of your posts.
My god I saw your post about your son saying that your H should move back because you were not fighting.
You are absolutely right in that life is so simple. We should all just work it out, especially since we have kids.
I am in exactly the same situation. My X and I get along great. My daughter always tries to put us together. It really is that simple.

My mom left my dad 40 years ago. She recently told me that had my dad offered an once of effort to at least try to work on things that she would have worked it out with him. She does say that she is 100% happy with the man she re-married but had me dad even tried she would have kept our family intact.
My mom is livid that my XW does not even try to do anything given that I would do anything/everything for my family.

I am at the point where seeing the pain my kids are in and that my XW will do nothing that I am starting to really not like my XW.
Whitney, I can completely understand how you feel about starting to not like you XW when you see how much pain your kids are in. I get this feeling a lot and wonder how the WAS can not see the pain they are causing.

I don't know what it is that makes them think that you can still carry on like a family.

My heart goes out to you and your kids.
I can relate to whitneypinch. I get the same thing. I think that I need to move on for my own sanity. The WAS does this because they think they don't have any other choice. They will have to hit bottom before they realize what they have done.

The refusal to work on anything is maddening. It drives me crazy to figure that out, but may it's better to just let it go and move on.
I think it's best to move on BUT it takes a long time to get to that point of strength.
It has taken me 3 years to get to this point.
I just find that I am better off with no contact from her. We have tried this in the past but we both seem to cave in.
We will see what happens this time.

Tanks everyone for all the responses.
Keep them coming...
Good luck to you. Another crazy part is that deep down she misses you (thus the breaking no contact). My STBXW does the same thing. One moment resentful, next very nice. It's a pattern that repeats, but I need it to stop. I need to move on for my own health.
Yep, that is exactly the situation.
She will have a birthday party for my 6 year old son with all his school friends, relatives and her friends then phone me on the way home with my son to tell me about it.

I leave her for a few days and she is sending me hugs in emails etc.
I get sucked back in and then the expectations start to happen.

I too need it to stop so I can move on in a healthy way.
Hey, just so all of you know out there...my WAW is just like all the others.

On Saturday last week I emailed my XW and told her not to send me photos from her upcoming trip to Florida. It's too painful for me to see my kids and not be there on our annual trip.
I also told her that I no longer wanted to have our cute little emails back and forth when we have a family that we should be working on.
She replied that she understood and that she would take my lead and do what I wished. She ended the note that she was sorry for all of this and would always be. She did not have enough feeling to work on our relationship.

They all left on their trip Monday morning.
On Wednesday evening I received a photo of my kids eating caramel apples from Florida with this note:
"Kiddies sending sweet caramel love to daddy! We'll call u in the morning.
XOXOXO from all including mommy."

See what I am dealing with here !
This is the pattern. If I reciprocated anything loving back to her I would not get a response.

I just replied:
"Cute, and yummy". Will speak in the morning"

The kids phoned in the morning and my XW never even came on the phone.

Blahhhhh
Hi Whitney, I'm so sorry and really feel for you. After much soul searching the last couple of days, I've decided to change my approach from the LRT and be a little more open to the friendship option although obviously at the end of all this, that is not where I'd like to be.

I look at your situation and the ages of yourself and your XW and my STBXH and I are pretty close to where you are. I worry about that myself, particularly since STBXH has concluded that this was one of our problems and is obviously something I can't change - wow, how I wish I could turn the clock back!

I don't really have any words of advice but do know that I'm watching and praying for you and your family for a positive outcome, whatever that may be.

Happy New Year.
Hello FSAH,

I do believe age is a factor.
When we were all in our 30's life was full of so many possibilities and we felt invincible.
When we get into our 40's we realize we are not going to live forever and that every moment is precious. I think that is why we are so heartbroken when our kids are not with us. We know that time is flying by and that we don't get it back.

I am going to continue on my path and no longer contact my XW or send photos etc. I find it easier for myself. I don't end up with any expectations. Expectations are what is causing me so much pain and it tends to keep me stuck.

I don't believe I have heard the last of my XW.

In fact I predict that she emails me and suggests I pick the kids up at the airport on Tuesday. I am not scheduled to have them until after school on Wednesday.

Have a happy new years everyone !!
You are so right Whitney, we do realize how precious moments are in our 40's.

I'm going to say you are probably right with your predictions and it must be so hard to weigh that decision ... you so want to see your kids every possible time you have a chance but you also know how much it hurts. Continue on your path and may peace come your way.
So my kids came back from their trip to Florida with my XW.
They phoned me last night which was nice. I will see them today.

On the way to the airport in Florida my XW sent me another photo.
I have responded in a pleasant way to each photo, but I specifically asked her not to send me any photos while they were on vacation from Florida.

It just seems like my X is trying to be "friendly". Perhaps it's just to ease her guilt, who knows.
In the past I had sent her photos and tried to encourage us getting closer. Each time she pushes back and says she has not enough feelings to ever consider working on our situation. Sometimes we all go out as a family but I stopped that as it's too hard on me and the kids.

When my XW is kind to me and I am kind back to her, and then it stops on her end.

She ended one email from Florida "hugs and kisses from mommy".

I decided to pull back and not contact her anymore.
God, I hope I am doing the right thing.

I really miss being married and a family.....
It's been awhile since I have posted on this board, I have been on MLC board reading and doing some posting, but not much!

Whitney- I totally sympathize with you and understand where you are coming from and the fine line you walk, as I do others on here with similar situations to mine.

I have gone back and forth, up and down and back again with my XH! He is very messed up in MLC and been through two OW's. We have been on family trips, he stays at my house when he comes to visit me and the kids (we live 700 miles apart), we are intimate when he comes, we act like a family and it is pretty good most of the time, he even drove 10 hours and showed up unannounced on my doorstep on a Friday night to spend the weekend with us. I have done things to screw it all up when we have gotton really close because I get my hopes up sooo much and don't handle things like I should, I get all jealous and do things that just push him away.

Before Thanksgiving he was texing me "good-night beautiful" and things were going really great between us despite the long distance, but I freaked cause I found out he was at the same party with OW #2 and walked her to her car!!

We got past that..sorta..and he was coming for Christmas, I wasn't over his continual contact with her (even though we had made no commitment to each other, except having been married for 17 plus years). He showed up Chrismas Eve and I went nuts on him..it was 10 pm and I hadn't eaten and had had too much wine, but still no excuse and it was awful. We made up and he left on a good note, but had said something to really hurt me during sex, so I was determined not to contact him. I stuck to it and he called me about our D18, then I sent him an email drawing the line in the sand, saying I won't be used and abused anymore, I am done with it all, I deserve more and will find it. He called and said he got the email and was soooo very sorry, that he knew he had hurt me and owed me an apology, I accepted and moved on from it and we had a nice conversation. I haven't heard from him since or contacted him either, it has been 4 days, which I know doesn't sound long, but for us with all our kids stuff, it is a long time.

I refuse to initiate any contact anymore and I think he knows I am serious this time, but I don't think he cares. I have to move on in 2011 and am determined to do so, no more family trips, no more staying at each others houses, no more sex, no more pictures or videos of the kids from me, nothing. It is just to painful and leaves me stuck. I don't want a liar and cheater and know I would never, ever live in peace even if he did come back, he has lied too much.

I miss being married and having a whole family more than I can describe. I miss the husband, man, father, and lover that I once had in XH, but that man is gone and I now believe he is gone for good, I might see glimpes of my old H, but it won't last long before the alien that took over is back.

Hang in there all on here, it will get better, and believe that if the X is going to want to come back and you want them back...they will show you in a big way and be willing to prove it in a big way!! I believe that with my whole heart. When a man wants a woman he goes after her, I am not going to settle for less than him coming after me in a really big way, and I am sure women who have done similar things would do the same with the man they really want! We need to stop letting them cake-eat!! They chose this, let them live the REAL consequences of what they picked and wanted so bad, we need to stop making it so easy!!

A
Hello Augtan,

Thanks so much for taking the time to write to me.

OMG I don't know how you actually did that with your XH.
It would just kill me to be that close with my X.

I too am in the same situation as you. I have decided enough is enough. I will no longer contact my XW, send photos, compare stories etc.

For the last 2 weeks I have only responded to her emails with just short answers and no emotions at all. I can tell you it's much easy to get through the days now, now that I don't have any expectations.
Soon I am not going to respond at all unless the email asks for a specific response related to our kids.
It's time to cut the cord.

Augtan I completely agree in that if our Xs want to get back with us they will make their intentions very known.

So....we continue on !
It has has destoryed me to be so close to XH, but back in the Fall he came up here a lot and things were really looking good, then he fell back in with OW #2 who is truly a horrible, awful woman...she lost custoday of her 13 yr old daughter because she was having men in and out of her bed and the D13 could hear her mom having sex with these men, D13 and D4 (both by different Dad's and the whore is only 33 yrs old) were being left alone overnight so she could sleep over at other men's houses, she beat D13 one morning cause she left a dish out, pulled her by the hair down the stairs....it goes on and on...this is what this man, my XH wants over me and his real family.

But, only because he thinks so little of himself and subconsciencely knows this is all he will be able to get to date him after all he has done to his own kids. It is beyond a mess and sooo sad. My D18 was living down there with him and he put her in the middle of some very awful situations, he goes out partying every single night (and I am not exhagerating this at all!!), he has no job now so he is even more miserable and latching on to anything to take the pain away for even a minute and I guess this OW does that (he says they are just friends now, but I dont' believe a word he says!!), the crazy drama that she brings leaves no time for him to think about his own awful life and mess!! D18 is moving back up here to graduate HS and be with me and her family this weekend...so he will be left with no one and nothing again.

I asked him when he lost his job this past Fall when things were going good with us to move up here and live in my condo, that I would take D18 and live at my parents (who leave for 5 mo.) while he stayed rent free at my place with D11 and S15, it would cut down on expenses and such, but he hasn't even entertained the idea and continues to want to live like a 21 year old again, with no responsibility and no family. He was very into my D15's football, coached him, etc. He came and saw D15 play one game this last fall and that was it, he is missing his son play HS football, something my real H would have never missed...but I am finally really done feeling bad for him and trying to make him see all he is missing, I don't cry anymore about it and I am really feeling so strong now. I am DONE!!! He will one day be very, very sorry and I will feel really bad for him then, but no matter how much he blames me (and he does everytime he can say "you took the kids away from me", like our marriage was great and I just up and left, not that he had left us for OW #1 and was telling me he was never, ever coming back!!!).

Stay tough and strong!! You can do it, and it gets easier everday..doesn't it??? We are better off without these people who don't want us!! Why I kept wanting someone who didn't want me is something I know is wrong within me and need to fix, I mean I know why..I wanted my old H, I wanted my family like it was, I wanted the fairy tale back that we had, but I have to deal with that this is DEAD, he is DEAD, the real him anyway!! I am working hard on ME!!! And, being a much better mom to my kids, cause all these years I have been in so much pain haven't been fair to them at all!! But, I am human and I am real..so they know this and I think that is okay, but now I will do better!!

A

I
god speed!
It's amazing how these people really do change and become someone that we have no idea of.
Every once and a while my old X pokes her head out and then disappears.

You stay strong as well !!
and yes it does get easier each day !!!
Today my XH turned 44 years old, 4 years ago I took him to Mexico for his b-day and I had no idea that he was having his affair at that time. He was cold and distant, now I know that he was thinking of her the whole time and wishing she was there instead of me. It hurts to think of that, but not nearly as much as it use to. I never in a million years thought he was having an affair or ever would have one.

I got him a massage gift card and a kroger gift card from the kids, he got the massage one yesterday and thanked me via IM, we chatted a bit then I said I had to go to the bank and signed off. Then I texted him this morning Happy Birthday and sent him an e-card and that was it, my S15 called him to tell him HB and then XH asked to talk to me, he again thanked me for the card and text and was talking about stuff with D18 and his reffing basketball and all, I was nice, but kept it short and sweet. He said he had no plans at all for his b-day and I told him that D18 should take him to dinner. I am going out with a some friends for dinner and live music, gonna have fun!!

A
Yep, been there as well.
About 8 month before my XW dropped the bomb I fly to San Francisco to meet her on her business trip. She was cold and distant while I was there as well. In fact I caught her checking her email on her phone. I did not suspect an affair but knew something was off. We got in a huge fight on the plane on the way back.
She must of already knew she was leaving me at the time.
There was a good chance that she was having an affair and that person was going to meet her in San Francisco instead of me.

I have my kids this weekend and X has already contacted me to check in and see how the kids are doing.
I just answered her texts with a short answer, with no emotion at all.
I did not send her photos of the kids and I tobogganing and skating today. I used to send her photos thinking that may shock her into wanting to work things out. It kills me to get photos of my kids with her. I always wish I was with them.

Anyway, I am finding it easier to cope now that I don't have expectations of her.
So I am on week 3 without initiating contact with my XW.
I only respond to her in short neutral sentences, void of emotion.

Man, this is not easy.

Last night my 8 year old daughter told me she does not want me to get a girlfriend. I asked her why and she said "because then you can't get back together with mommy". God, I could just scream at my XW !!
I feel your pain!!! I am having a hard day today! Had to have contact with XH because of D18 and he just makes me so angry inside. I did so much for him for his b-day and didn't have to and he is back with OW #2 who is just beyond a horrible and awful person!! I can't wait for D18 to get back up here so I can just cut XH out all together, since we live 700 miles apart, it will be easy to do physically, but so hard for me not to want try to "guilt" him into wanting to be with us by sending pics, videos, updates and stuff, like we both have done, Whitney, and it hasn't worked yet!! I am not going to do it, I am going to stay strong and ignore him and accept that his relationship with the kids is his and only his!! I can't do it for him and it isn't my job!! I am done, I am done, I am done...if I keep repeating this will it get easier???

Hang in there Whitney, you are doing soooo good!!! I hate when the kids say that stuff, it makes it so hard and makes me want to shake the [censored] out of my XH!!! They just don't get it at all!! And, one day they will be the ones who pay the price and are suffering, unfortuantly our kids will be the victims and already are, their one and only family will never be whole again, I don't care what all the pro-divorce people say, kids are effected and it matters!! Stay stong!!

A
Hi Augtan,

It's Monday after a weekend with my kids. I always have a really hard time after spending every waking hour with my kids. I always feel really down and miss them terrible.

The kids and I had a great weekend of skating and tobogganing. For the first time ever I did not send photos to my X. I usually send photos when we do stuff on the weekend but since it makes no difference I am stopping.

I am feeling really angry right now. I am exhausted from doing all that I do with my kids alone. Don't get me wrong I love all that I do but I never signed up to do all of this alone.

I too used to do nice things for my XW when it was her birthday, Mother's Day etc. and it too got me nowhere.

Yes, the pro-divorce people ARE WRONG about the kids not being effected.

btw my X is extremely wealthy, beautiful and fit. She always has "options" so I am sure she will have no troubles in life.

Autan, you hang in there as well and try to cut back on doing so much for your X as well.

smile
So, since I have asked my X to only contact me if she wanted to work on our family (3 weeks ago) she has continued to contact me. Nothing about us, but stories about the kids, news articles etc. Just "touch and go" I guess

She is just trying to keep things good between us.

Of course I want her to contact me to work on our situation BUT I have been holding strong and just answering with non-emotional short responses.
I wish I was strong enough to have done this about 2.5 years ago.

I do feel kind of cruel that in some way, out of the blue, I am being really cold to her. I am sure she has no clue.

I don't really want to be portrayed as the bad guy in all of this.
Hey Whitney,

You seem to be sticking to your guns, even if it is killing you.
I need to do the same, but instead I have continued to play the game, and hoping each interaction with ex is a good one, meaning one that gives me even a sliver of hope.

I have had a few good interactions, even today, but inadvertently, our son told me he had been with his Daddy when Daddy did errands for "Denise", a old girlfriend, and that Daddy had taken him to "Laura's", a woman he had a affair with while we were married, to help her start a fire. I was livid with him. He had agreed that he would not take our son around her, and infact he has taken him several times. Of course he turns this around on me, calling me bitter, telling me I am like my mother who he knows I would not want to mimic, with me then telling him, we would go back to everyother weekend visitation, instead of me letting him see our son whenever he wanted to. This made him livid of course, and he proceeded to hurt me even more, saying to the effect that he regretted how long he spend having a unhappy relationship with me. At that, I called him crying, and left a message telling him I never wanted to see him again, and that he just continued to hurt me more and more, and I had had enough. I haven't heard anything more from him.

To go within 30 minutes to having him initiate a phone call to see how our day was, to that ugly event is just crazy. I cannot do this anymore for my own sanity. I stay so hurt, and I worry about my son being around my ex so much, afraid that because he adores his father, he will take on more of his character traits than my own.

I don't know how to let go. The only way I can think I can begin to do that is not to see him anymore, and only to tx about our son what we need to. Are you feeling any better with limited contact with your ex? It sounds like you drew the line in the sand, and she is crossing over the line. And you said you think she wants to keep a good relationship with you, but why? I know why I want a good relationship with my ex, and its because I hope it leads to him coming home. Otherwise, I would probably feel apathetic about a relationship with my ex. I guess it is their guilt leading them to appear to care sometimes.
Sure is confusing, and not just to me, but to my friends also. They can't believe how much he does for me, but it appears he does alot for many other woman too. He always did.

I am so grateful to have this place to be honest, and to know I am not alone.
Hello yoh,

Hope is both a wonderful and an awful emotion.
I think most of us on this board have done everything we could based on hope. Hope that our X's would come to their senses and want to work on our relationship.
The truth is, if our X's wanted to work on our relationships then they would. They would find a way to talk to us and/or be with us.

So, it all just boils down to common sense and that is what DB teaches us. We are to work on ourselves, focus on our children, GAL, and be pleasant with everyone (including our Xs).

We have all tried to "show" our X's that we changed, that we love them etc. They just don't see it because they are so focussed on themselves.

Why our X's do anything is something that we will never figure out, nor should we try.
We are all so hurt that this person just got up and left and deceived us is too much to take. It is one of the worst experiences we will ever have.

Our X's lie and deceive us because they are weak and/or they do not want to hurt us further. The truth is, lying to us in an effort to protect us hurts us worse.

To answer your question; "Are you feeling any better with limited contact with your ex?" YES, I do feel better.
I still check my email "hoping" to hear from her BUT I can function much better now. I don't have my expectations constantly crushed. So in a way I have slowed the roller coaster of emotions.
I do feel bitterness every once and awhile though. I am at the stage where I am pretty mad at my ex for completely abandoning the life she and I created.

I think my X wants a good relationship with me to keep communications open about our kids. I do a lot of things with my kids and I think she wants to still be a part of that. Unfortunately I will no longer include her in all that I do with the kids. She made a decision to leave us so she will now have to live with that decision.
She is also the kind of person that wants everyone to like her.
I don't think she wants a good relationship with me in case she wants to reconcile.
I don't think there are any feelings of guilt from my X at all. Her attitude is "oh well", it's very unfortunate that she lost feelings for me. Of course this is a very immature view of marriage, but that is what she feels.

Anyone that is really having trouble with the emotional roller-coaster I strongly suggest to try to back away from the whole situation. Don't be the "one with all the issues" in the eyes of our X. Be the strong one that is moving forward in life.
As I have said...if our X's want us back then they WILL pick up the phone. Until then it's best to not have so much hope.

So, no this is not easy and somedays I am lonely, some days I am angry, some days I am happy and some days....well some days just drag on. BUT we will all get through this.

Yoh try not to worry that your son will become like your X. It's amazing how much our kids are pre-programed from the day they are born. Our children with have bits and pieces of their parents, bust mostly they will become themselves.

I completely agree with you about how grateful we are to have these boards. I appreciate and love when I get someone posting on my thread.

Yoh, try to vent your frustrations on this board and not to your X. 24 hours later you will feel better that you did.

((Hope you have a better day today.))
very inspirational thread - good luck to you all
Thanks christienick !

I appreciate that.

Have a good day !
the problem is, whitney, why should she change things? she has her life with her kids, then the greatest babysitter in the world when she wants to go out and party with her boyfriend, im sorry, but its true - youre giving her the world. most psychologists say that a person like this will never see thier own problems, and pin the whole demise of the marriage on the other partner.
Yep, That is exactly the situation.

She has everything...a beautiful house, a beautiful cottage, unlimited finances, she is beautiful etc.
I do believe she is very happy with the situation. She can come and go as she pleases and I am there to take care our our kids....BUT there is nothing in the world that l love more than to take care of and be with my kids.
So, I am VERY thankful for that. I am a fantastic father. Something that I grew into.

So, no I don't expect my X to ever come back. All I am doing now is just trying to heal myself by staying away from her.
sounds like a plan. lucky this didnt happen when you were 60. now you have more time to find someone who actually cares about you. has the boyfriend met the kids yet? and dont say theyre isnt one - there is...just remember its going to be hard for him to compete against you. ive been told multiple time and read in multiple places that if she ever really want you back, its when you really move on and are through with her (not just lip service) - the problem (or not is) that when she wants you back, you really have moved on, and will tell her to jump in the lake! hard to believe, but it will happen, especially when you meet the right person. im not a vengeful person, but to see you really happy with someone will kill her.
No boyfriend that I am aware of.
She is the "dating kind" so I am sure there are men around.

My poor little daughter told me the other day "daddy, I don't want you to get a girlfriend because then you and mommy can't get back together"
Could just scream at my X !

Ya, I have heard that from a lot of people that the X only wants you back when you have completely moved on.

It has taken me 3 years to get to the stage of just finally starting to move forward. That is why I no longer initiate contact with my X. It is hard, let me tell you. Over the last few weeks I have come so close to sending my X photos of stuff I have done with the kids...but I have resisted.
dont do it - that way hasnt worked for 3 years - cheeseless tunnel as michelle would say. its still almost zero chance the new way will work either, but its better than zero. im sure it makes you feel good, no matter what you say pubically, that your daughter is on your side (for the family unit), but im not sure that it helps her heal. i think of all the high roads we take, letting the kids realize that its over, and reinforcing that, it the hardest thing to do, when every ounce of your soul is saying "go ahead kid - let her know how much damage she has caused" - do you think your ex knows you are on this forum?
Yep, have no interest in sending any more photos to X.
There is also no point of me "letting her have it" either. That won't change anything.

Oh ya, for sure my kids say things to my X about wishing we were all together. As you have probably read I had been out with my X and the kids a number of times but don't do that anymore. It's too hard and me and on the kids.

No, my X does not know I am on here.
well, at least theres no guy important enough to be introduced to the kids - and that tells you that you have a leg up on the competition in that respect. how do you guys do the holidays?
Ahhhh. I am so very lucky about the holidays.
My X is jewish and I'm not. I have the kids for a week at Christmas forever.
Of course my X and MIL call us on Christmas.

To tell you the truth there are no conflicts with my X at all on any issue. Even if I want to see the kids more than I do it's not problem.

Not to brag but I am not worried about competition. When I say I do everything with my kids I really do !! So much so that other parents have started to ask if I would take their kids on some of our adventures.
I am not afraid to ask for anything, so the kids and I have been very fortunate. My 7 year old daughter has been to a Miley Cyrus, Taylor Swift and Carrie Underwood concert. We have been very fortunate to meet both Carrie Underwood and Taylor Swift one on one. Btw Taylor Swift is one of the nicest peson I have ever met.
I got my 6 year old son into motocross riding so he and I ride dirtbikes together. My daughter is now interested in it so I took her to a race and she got to meet and become friends with the women's world champion.

The kids and I have gone dogsledding, camping, road trips, flying trips, concerts, art galleries, galas, NFL NBA NHL and soccer games. We rock climb, snow and water ski etc.
I live downtown in a big city so they also get exposed to every kind of food, restaurant, and culture.

Recently I was able to get my kids U.S. citizenship and to celebrate we went to Boston for 4th of July and all that entailed.

So,.....overall I have the best possible divorce in history and am very grateful to have my kids.
smile
they say you have to break up before you make up - maybe you two were never far enought apart. i guess youre doing that now. good luck.
Yep, in 3 years we have not gone more than a few days without speaking. Finally I am changing that !
I need to come on here and vent...

I just had a nasty exchange with my XH and am so sick of all this crap. We have huge issues with D18, she lives with him right now, but is moving back up here with me, she is a teenage pain in the a**, I love her to death, but she has had issues with anxiety, ADD, being what I think is just lazy and so on...She has been to many, many Dr's both here and there and seems to get no releif when it comes to things she doesn't want to do, but when she wants to do something the problems disappear making it hard to believe they were real in the first place...Anyway, she is stuck down there due to snowstorm and just today can make it up here, so the plan is for her to leave tomorrow, but now she doesn't want to come and is having anxiety...blah, blah, blah..XH calls me and I am just so distraught about so many things so I start saying things like "I didn't ask for this (to raise three kids completely alone), I didn't chose this (to live like we do, which really [censored]!), I am in school almost full-time, work full time, have the kids full time with no break, I just can't take much more, I can't have D18 come up here and cause nothing but problems and anxiety for me and the other two kids" XH says "I don't want to hear all this again, I don't want to hear how you didn't chose this and that you blame me for everything, I have heard it a million times how you didn't chose this or that, you just say all of it to make me feel guilty and I don't want to hear it"

I was just speechless, cause honestly, he deserves to hear it each and every day, cause he is the cause of all of it, he did chose it and he made it all happen, I didn't want a D, I didn't leave, I didn't cheat, but me and the kids are the only ones with consequences to all he did and chose for us. I just said "f**k you, you have no clue what I go thru each day, I am sick of it" He said something about not wanting or having to hear it and hung up!!

I AM DONE!! He says he has heard it a million times, but really he hasn't!! I have kept it all in check and not shared so many things and problems with him regarding the kids, finances, downsizing to a small condo, the company my family owns and all it's problems, etc. I have treated him with kid gloves and sheltered him and now he says that I have laid the guilt on him a million times and he shouldn't have to hear it!! Who else should have to hear it?

I am just venting here, I am so upset and don't know what to do!! I truly can't take much more, I am so good to that man and he can't listen to me vent for 5 minutes? I told him D18 can just stay there and not graduate HS and he can do as he sees fit, I have to get some tough love with her. But, I really want D18 up here away from him, and so I don't have to have contact with him at all!!

HELP!!

A
Hi Augtan,

I am so sorry to hear all that you are going through. I believe all of us on this forum can feel for you, hear you and understand completely.

This all [censored] !!

Unfortunately you know the answer. You know you are not going to get relief or understanding form your X.

Just know that all of us on here care about what you are going through.

Vent as much as you can on here.

(((all of us)))
Thanks so much Whitney!! I needed to know that!! I feel so alone sometimes! You are right, X doesn't care about my problems!!

He did just call me back and we talked nice...he has no job and no prospects (he made pretty good money at an executive level and those jobs are hard to find)! We both have a lot on our plates and D18 isn't helping. I did again offer for him to come up here and live at my condo, I can live at my parents house, they are in Florida for the next 4 months. One household is much cheaper to run than two, but XH won't do it, he values his friends there more than his kids here! I told him not to respond to me and to think it all through and weigh the pros and cons...he said he would, but he won't! It is just sad!

Thanks again for all your support!! It means more than you know to me!!

A
I am so glad I could help in a small way. That is why we are all here.

This form has been a fantastic support to me as well.
AugTan,

You came to my new thread and offered help. I wondered where you went...now I know. Sorry you are going through this.

I've been skipping around this site tonight (it's 3:30AM) because I can't sleep. I found a cool place here with a collection of some great posts.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...484#Post1757484

I think from reading that I'd want to ask you what your goal is...

I'm out here thinking of you.

Best,
MZ
Wow, thanks so much MZ!! I will read that later, I have a paper due tomorrow and need to get back to it asap! I went back and read some of your situation, your piecing your marriag after an A and MLC, right? I wish you all the best and hope you can make it through all this! I am on the MLC boards a lot too! I would love to hear about your discovery of the A, as mine is quite a story too, which does involve jail!! I don't know what my goal is, I would like to say it is to move on and be over all this, happy with a man who loves me and is healthy enough to do so, who I love and respect back just as much, but I still pray daily that XH will want to come home and be a family with us again!!

Today, was a weird day with XH. We are still having issues with D18 so we talked and IM'd a few times. As I have posted on here before, XH and I have never stopped ML through all of this crap. I know it is different, but we have great s*x and enjoy it. Well, this last time I have sworen to myself will be the last time because of things he said to me in relation to OW#2 that was so awful and hurtful to me. But, he apologized for it and says they are just friends and D18 had confirmed that she isn't around anymore. I still want to have better boundries and need to make that one of them. Today on the IM he said he was going to get in the shower to get warm cause he was cold, I said that I wished I was there and I could warm him up right, he said I wouldn't want his cold hands all over me right then, I said that I loved his hands all over me warm or cold and some other flirty, sexy things, he replied just as flirty and then I ended it. He called me twice since then about D18 and has texted me too, nothing major, but we are getting along good. This was happening before Thanksgiving and I messed it up, I don't want to do that this time, and for some reason feel like I could take it or leave it and like this feeling. I am not going to be the one to initiate all the flirting. I know he wants to come up here soon, I just need to stay strong and let him prusue me, I doubt he will, but I am not going to accept anything less, if he wants any form of an R with me he will go after it.

Just needed to update and vent, this time I don't feel as desperate or that feeling like I want to hear from him or I am going to have an anxiety attack! I feel secure and good, not as "stuck" when it comes to this part of it all anyway, I still have my anger and resentment of all he has done, but that too is going away little by little!!

A
Ok, XH is coming up here tomorrow night, D18 convinced him to drive her up here and fly back, so he will be here for just one night, and will stay at my house. I have to have strength not to let him in my bed...I will just continue to remind myself of the hurtful thing he said and I hope I will have the strength, I really think I will cause I just feel so much stronger.

So, now I just have to make sure there is no R talk, no anger, no pushing him or questions or comments about OW#2 at all!! I am going to keep strong boundries and be business like, yet fun at the same time. Pray for me!

A
Dear Whitney,

I hope the plan for distance is still in the works for you. Not for me, and the need for distance is greater than ever.

My son slipped, and told me about a visit to XH's OW's house. This was a stipulation I had during our divorce proceedings, that he would not take our son any where around this person. It was unrealistic to believe due to the fact that she is everywhere he is, both jobs, one of which he is around both her children. Nevertheless, I was not prepared for XH to take son to her house several times. Appears that visits were not for dates, but to do favors for her. I was livid because he told my son not to tell me.

I called and confronted him, and he admitted that the visits did happen, but that he would never take son on a date. Whatever. Such a disgusting rationalization. He did not admit to "dating" her, nor deny it, but I doubt what they do is date anyway. I didn't know what to be more upset about, the fact that he put our child in such a situation that he had to lie to me, or the fact that he is more than likely continuing to see her. I do know though for a fact that he is doing "favors" for others also, again my son told me. Maybe I should let the OW know.

I was a emotional basketcase, and could not control telling him how hurt I was, and that I had continued to hope he would come home. So much for keeping my distance.

I gently told my son that it was ok to tell the truth and that his father had confessed. Talk about heartbreaking. He then ran upstairs crying, so ashamed for not telling the truth.

I let XH know that I could not continue to see him, and have him in my home anymore. Of course, he said something like "Well I guess you hate me that much", inorder to enlicit a denial from me, and it worked. I denied I hated him, and said I wish I could.

Well, the distance I intended to put between us only worked until the next day. When we did the changing of the guard ( my turn to work), my car would not start. He gladly took over, making the phone calls to tow, he paid for the work, picked me up after work, and I am sad to say it was wonderful to be in a vehicle with all three of us. It was a long ride, made longer by him taking me to pick up my car. We enjoyed our son together, XH was playful with me, complimentary, and for a short time I felt like we were still a family. But, the front door closes with him on one side, and us on the other.

It appears he wants me to continue to be dependant upon him, but for what reason who really knows. I know he is not here, and hasn't been here in over a year. I know our divorce will be a year ago in a few months. And I know other women are dependant upon him also. He just doesn't have to feel so guilty about the other women now.

A friend asked me the other day, "What does he have to do to convince you he is not a good guy, murder someone?" I know my friends and family want me to REALLY move on. But, I look at our son, am reminded by moments like the above how much fun XH can be, and remember how much fuller my life was with him, and the bad things are forgotten.

I guess you have experienced the same things many times over, and finally said enough is enough. I suppose I will have to make myself create distance, because I doubt I will ever really desire it.

I too, have read, and researched effects of divorce on children. I know all that lies ahead. My XH should too, since his parents were divorced, but he thinks he turned out "good enough". I could never get him to read more than a page of the books I bought. Too convicting, and created guilt and doubt in his decision to leave.

Ok, I have gone on way too long, but I so appreciate this place. No one else really understands the day to day struggles that divorce brings.

I know one thing, for the sake of my health, and inorder to be around many years to influence my child, I have to get rid of the stress. I love my child enough to do all I can to stay strong, and create a great home for him. One of his parents needs to be the pillar, and that is me. You are too for your kids, and I hope you are getting to see them this very second.
Hi YOH,

Wow, I don't know how you do it. In a way you are a strong person to be so intertwined with your X.
I kind of tried that and was such a basket case afterwards that I could hardly function.
All of us have different levels of what we can and can't take. I applaud you for what works for you.

It's just awful to see our kids go through all the pain that they do. It's heartbreaking for me to see my kids go through it. I do try to talk to my kids about it as my parents divorced when I was my kids age as well.

Sadly I don't have my kids this weekend and I am absolutely feeling empty and lonely.
Tomorrow my X is taking them skiing for the first time alone. I have been the one skiing alone with my kids for the last 4 years.
My kids and X are all going to be out there having a great time without me. I was the one for 4 years out there teaching my kids to ski and all the hard work that entailed. frown

I just went out to dinner alone and thought about the life I had with my family and how it just changed 100% one day. For the years we were together I led a very charmed life. Trips all over the world, lived in NYC for a few years, we had a beautiful cottage etc. Now I am out having dinner alone.
Sorry to be so down but it's all part of the roller-coaster.
Dear Whitney,

The feelings you described last night while at dinner, are the unbearable ones, the ones that make you feel hopeless. When I get to that place, which I am sorry to say is more often than not, I start the blame game. But, I usually blame myself or start finding fault with myself which of course no one is innocent, but we didn't decide that committment was irrelevant, or that what we wanted was more important than the greater good. We didn't decide that what we wanted or felt was more important than our childrens welfare. We didn't decide to lie whether by witholding our thoughts, or lie about where we were, who we were with. We didn't surround ourselves with people who would agree that our choices were understandable, and that you only live once, and might as well do whatever you want to do.

We may have been wrong about many things during our marriages, but we were willing to try to make it better. They were willing to create chaos, pain, and lifetime problems for our children, and other people in our families. Not only our families, but our friends, our co-workers were affected because we became different people. I couldn't hide the tears, the devesation that my XH created.

I know I sound angry too, but it makes me so angry that all of us here, are left to pick up the pieces for ourselves and our children. It is going to take time and a ton of glue to put us back together, and it seems we will always have a missing piece.

Can I just say that today I hate them all, and hope they rot. And that goes for the others that were involved with them too.

Talk about emotional rollercoaster. One day I am crying, the next day throwing things. I hope you are doing better today, but it has to be harder when you don't have your children. I am only without mine when I am working a couple of days in a row, and then I am so tired that it is nice to just come home and rest. I wish you could see yours more, and I hope the time goes by quickly until you do.
yrs-

My XH forced my kids to lie to me about OW's as well. The worst was when my D11 who was 9 at the time came home from 3 weeks with XH, I picked her up at the airport and took her to lunch at her favorite place, we were sitting there and she said "mommy, can I talk to you in the bathroom" I was like, "what's wrong, just tell me here" She refused so we went in the bathroom and there she said "mommy, my heart hurts sooo much, I just can't take it anymore, Daddy made me meet OW (she said her name) and told me not to tell you, that you would be mad at him and at me, but I can't lie to you and it is hurting my heart too much" I just grabbed her and held her really tight and told her "I would never, ever be mad at you for that, that is Daddy's fault he did that to you, not yours, I love you very much and you are just a little girl, your heart doesn't have to hurt anymore, I am not at all upset with you" We went back and enjoyed our lunch.

But, there are many other things he has done, could type all day, that has destroyed HIS relationship with HIS kids!! It is all about him and what he wants to do (or it was, he has gotton so much better since that OW and OW#2 are gone), but those things he did will forever effect our kids and have changed how they view him forever, and it is beyond sad!!

I have an even worse story about how he made D17 lie to me too, but again it involves an OW. I understand your pain with this, I fought to keep and will forever fight to keep horrible, awful, nasty, bad influence, bad morals, woman away from my kids, if he ever wants to chose a woman who is decent, we will talk about her meeting the kids, but so far both have lost custody of their kids, have no contact with their kids, have broken up marriages, beat their kids, drink way too much, sleep with many, many men in front of their kids, etc. They are just not people I will accept and I have the power to keep them away and I will. Not everyone can do that, and if they can't then the conversations with the kids needs to be very open and honest about morals and right from wrong. This is all just my opinion, of course.

A
Hi YOH,

I LOVE your postas it summed up so much of what I am feeling now.
I swear I may lift some of what you wrote and send it to my X when the time is right smile
In the 3 years I have been split from my X I have not laid into her once. Being nice, compassionate and caring was one of my 180s.
I have a sense that we are going to have a blow out soon. I no longer have anything to lose.

I am just about to see the new Sophia Coppola movie "Somewhere".
It's about an actor's relationship with his daughter and the emptiness of fame.

So yes, today is a bit better.
Thanks so much for checking in on me.
Hope you have a better weekend.
smile
Sorry for all the typos in my last post. My iPhone makes posting a bit of a challenge.
So, this weekend my kids were with my X.
They went skiing with her for the first time ever.
I have been the one skiing with the kids and teaching them for the last 4 years. Only recently have both the kids become proficient enough to ski with my X alone.

I had a feeling I would hear from them and sure enough the kids video Skyped me at dinner last night. They were excited to tell me all about skiing, which was great.
My X also got on the video conference to tell me about skiing, new movies and where her parents were going out to dinner last night etc. We all sat they and ate our dinner together through the video call.

It was a nice call with the kids but left me feeling very bitter. My X just acts like nothing is the matter and this is all fine. He attitude is "oh well, our marriage just did not work out, just make the best of it".

Does this bitterness I am feeling go away?
whitney - you must be dating someone.
smile
Are you suggesting I "need" to be dating someone?
I honestly don't have the energy to do that at this moment.
no - just wondered what your girlfriend thinks about this circus - its likely keeping you off the market to a lot of women who would want to go out with you. if you dont want to, fine - just sayin....
Ha ha, thanks for that.

The truth is once that I am ready to date and meet someone there will be NO turning back.

smile
Hey Whitney,

I just wrote a very long reply, but lost it somehow. I will try to redo the jest of what I said.

It boils down to either they are somewhat confused still and that is why they give us mixed signals, or their hearts are so hardened, that they are simply unconcerned about our feelings. I guess it could even be both depending on the moment.

I try to put myself in their place, but whenever I was done with a relationship, I didn't want to talk, or see the person. I know that when I reached the place that the relationship was over, I did not give the person any reason to believe differently.

Maybe it is wishful thinking that the X's are confused. Maybe they are like they are only because of the children. If so, how good of them to think about getting along with us for their sake, when they were so unconcerned what they were doing to the kids in the first place.

off the subject. I need to go for a while. Is there anyway to save what we are writing so we can come back to it?

Whatever they are doing, it appears to be for their own good only.
Ya, I have to agree with what you are saying.

I think for my X it's all those things you suggest. She wants us to be friendly and says she thinks of me as family (just different), she wants the kids to see that we all get a long great and I also think her heart has hardened.

Ultimately I believe we have been brainwashed to be the "me generation" and that "I" should be happy no matter what. In fact my X said to me "life is too long to be unhappy". She then said "I don't need you" as she walked out the door.

Taking my kids to the dentist tomorrow. I work from home so I am able to do that. Friday is ski day at my daughters school so I get to ski with her. Yeh !

So sorry that you lost all that you had written. I have had that happen as well.
If I am going to write a lot I do it in MS Word and then copy and paste. That way I have a copy.

Yep, it's just for their own good !
I talk all the time about the "instant gratification" stuff...hate it! It is all about "what can you do for me RIGHT NOW and this doesn't feel good RIGHT NOW, so I am not going to do it even if it is for the betterment of all, or it is the right thing to do in the long run for the kids or otherwise!!"

I know my XH is caught up in this so very much, I mean why else would you do the things he has done to our kids and not think there would be huge issues and consequences. He never sees the consequences until it is too late, then he says to me "you're right, I should have thought about that" or "I just didn't think that through and yes, now I know it was a bad choice and wrong, but what am I suppose to do now, it's over and done with" But, I always have a long discussion with my kids about it, cause I don't want them to think it is ever okay to do what he has done. And, because I forgive him it doesn't mean that I am okay with what he did or does, it is about me when I forgive him.

I hate the choices these people have made and how easily they made them, although I know what drives it and what is causing it, it doesn't excuse it. I know who my XH was before the ET took over his mind, but he is a 44 year old man, and should know right from wrong no matter what your thoughts are telling you.

I went through a mid-mom crisis around 34 yrs old, I got married early and had kids early so it came early. I had an EA with my high school boyfriend, it devestated my XH, I never even considered a PA or leaving my XH in reality, at times I fantazied about being out the "the box" of my life, but my logical side would take over and I would tell myself "is this really worth losing all I have; a loving H, great kids, beautiful house, the security of our 15 year relationship, etc." I always came up with "no, it isn't worth it, I have never lived with this man, I have no clue if we could make it long term, why would I lose it all for something I have no idea is good or not, just cause it is fun and exciting to have someone else notice me and say he wants me" My XH wasn't capable of pulling himself into reality when he had his EA/PA!! He didn't come from the family I do and had no one but me he felt accountable to, he doesn't believe in God and had no family. He knew I would be upset, but he would have the OW to make that better, so he went for what felt good. It isn't an excuse but it is what he did and it [censored]!!

OW is gone, which I told him over and over would happen, and I have asked him several times if it was worth all the destruction and he says "no", but for some reason can't just come home and fix it now. Maybe someday, but he just hates himself too much and is afraid I will eventually go back to "hating" him again and make his life miserable, he just doesen't trust I have let it go. That is my opinion, and it is not at all fun. I can't tell him anymore that I have let it go, he has to realize it on his own and only TIME will do that.

Whitney, I know your XW didn't have an affair, but she did the same thing in her mind where she wants to live in her perfect little world with freedom to do as she pleases, I know you say she will never hit "rock bottom" cause she is beautiful and has all the money she needs, but you just never know what it might be for her. Hang in there and continue to do what you are doing, cause what you did before didn't work, and what you do different now might not work either, but it might, with these nut cases you just never know!!

A
Hi Autan,

I could not have said it better. In fact you summarized what most of our X spouses are like.

Actually my X did have a couple of EAs just before she dropped the bomb. I remember confronting her and got the standard "we are just friends". More than likely there was an PA that I just did not know about.

Ya, you never know what will happen. For us, my X and I are travelling in opposite circles and I don't think we could ever be able to be a couple again. My X has this independence right now that quite frankly I find so unattractive.

Really, my heart is broken more that we are not a family and not for my X. She really is someone completely different than the person I married. To tell you the truth so am I. If my X and I met now we would probably have no interest in each other.

All I can do now is just continue to help my kids out. I can see some real pain that they are having. They are just burnt out of all the back and forth between our separate houses and the very different lives they live in each.

Not liking my X at all in this very moment. In fact I am not liking my X's whole family.

Thanks again to everyone who responds to my posts. It means a lot to me.
Whitney, I know how you feel, I love when people respond to my posts too. How did skiing and the dentist go?

I have many moments when I don't like my XH or anything about him.

My XH is a different person than the one I married, most of the time, but I see the real H emerging more and more. Our X's are completely different and in different places, but the results are the same, hurt kids, hurt us, and so forth. It is not fun and I hate it.

You are a great man and one who will be quite the catch when you are ready, no rush!! Just know that you deserve someone who desires you and wants to be with you!! I am sure you are a hottie and are the talk of the single ladies at your kids school, it will all happen when you are ready.

I too miss being a "family" more than I miss my XH and that is sad to me, although if I remember my true H, I miss him so very much. I love being in his arms and I love him in my bed next to me, I do love him, but I love a "him" that is gone right now and might never return.

I have lots of plans this weekend and can't wait! My XH just texted me, I have had no contact with him for two days, he is thanking me for sending him job posting, since he is out of work and I come across them at my work, so I sent him a couple. I just texted back,"ur welcome, sweet dreams" It is so hard, but necessary to just be short and sweet, and not initiate anything. I am not going to pursue him!

A
Hi Augtan,

I cant tell you how much it means to me to get such a nice note.
This "thing" we are all going through destroys our self-estem. I really appreciate the kind words.

Ya, I took my kids to the dentist today. They have a new dentist and it turned out that we travel in the same circle of friends. She and I hi had lost to talk about.

This weekend I have my kids and we will go indoor rock-climbing one day and try out roller skating the next. It will be lots of fun.

X and I have texted a few times in the last few days but it's just empty. We just say short one liners to each other. Today we asked each other how were were and we both just said good. I am not good, in fact I could not be worse but just answered her that "I am good". It made me feel awful that my best friend, someone I dedicated my life to and that I have a family with just got up one day and became someone else.

Anyway I see my kids tomorrow so that will be good. I will go to my kids school to and go skating with my daughter in her gyms class.

smile
Hey Whitney,

I know what you mean about the X's parents. I was actually very close to his family, but when X decided he was not happy, although they were hurt about our separation, they wanted him to be happy above all else.

My X wanted to see our son today, so I had to see X tonight. I hate it when he comes in the house acting so happy and carefree, while I am struggling to keep my composure, and ACT carefree.

I too, like Augtan and you, miss having my family. I have such a small family as it is, and loosing my X and his family has left such a void. They still include me in big events, and even call sometimes, but I can't help but think if they had objected more to what their son was doing, he might have stopped.

It is so hurtful to think of your X with someone else. I know we are divorced according to the law, but according to my heart I am still married. It is torture that no one should have to endure. I have been trying to do 'thought stopping', whenever the vision of him and the OW, come to mind. It does help, but I have a feeling it won't be long until I am face to face with their relationship that can now be out in the open. Its highly likely that their are several relationships he is in now. He, like your X, Whitney, has many things going for him. He is handsome, very fit, intelligent, and charming, and always ready to 'help' someone, esp. exgirlfriends, new girl friends ect.ect.

Interesting thought about if we were just meeting our X'a now. It would be hard for me to be interested in a man who was unfaithful, and left their child. I am sure he tries to keep that as quiet as possible. Unlike you all, I cannot say with certainty that my X has really changed. I think I just didn't want to acknowledge the character deficits. Sadly, this is the father of my son. It breaks my heart that my son has to pay the price. And it makes me sad and mad when I read the price your children are having to pay too.

Did either of you read the book, Between Two Worlds? Don't go buy it. It is difficult to read in that it is sad what this study exposes about what it is like for children to go back and forth between parents. The benefit to reading it is the awareness of what children of divorce may experience. I did get my X to read some of it before he moved out, and I could tell it hit home with his own experience, but that didn't curtail his desire for going on with his plans to leave.

I am so sorry for all of us, and especially our children. I hope that we can help them avoid intentional pain. I hope I can teach my son to make choices differently than I did. Just because the outside of the package looks good, doesn't mean the inside is good.

I am sorry we find ourselves here, but it sure is good to have others who understand.
YOH,

Yep, I read the book Between Two Worlds !! I gave it to my X about a year after we split and she turned around and gave it back to me the next day (not read of course).
My kids are experiencing "Between Two Worlds" 100%. In fact my kids get it worse than most. My kids live with two extremes.
My X lives in a big house in one of the most affluent neighbourhoods in all of the country. I live in a more downtown area. My kids go to the country club with my X and more cultural things with me.
My daughter summed it up best once. She said "daddy takes us to cool things and mommy takes us to fancy things"
I do see the tole it is taking on my kids living between these two worlds though.

I study culture trends as part of my profession. I am hyper sensitive to all the change that is happening with our throw-away culture. I just never thought I would be part of it.

I have not had to face my ex being with anyone yet. Of course she hides it well.
But naturally I will have to deal with that.

Time to go to bed... or at least "try" to get some sleep. Have not had a good night of sleep since my X left.....

Night all
whitney - its been so many years - why do you think she hide the identity of the guy(s) shes with...?
To tell you the truth I have no idea at all of my X's status.
I know she likes to date and has done some dating since we have split.
she's never introduced any guys to the kids, so thats good. im sure you have had to done some to. at the risk of being inappropriate, no one goes for three years without fooling around some. not neccesarily a bad thing as long as everyone is on the same page
Ha ha ha,
I have not fooled around with anyone.

Oh I am sure my X has had lots !
I am cracking up!! I have fooled around with a few, not lately, but sometime ago. Had a 26 yr old lately who I dated for a few weeks, he wanted to get married and have a baby, this factory is closed!! I knew if I slept with him, I would be addicted, so I ended it!!

Whitney, I am convinced that you are super hot, not that that means you should "fool around", but you might consider it as a possiblilty! LOL!! Don't know many men who don't like gettin some now and then, but I guess they are out there, just not in my world...

I, whether good or bad, have a lot of good s*x with XH, it was never an issue in our M! We just very much connect that way. I can't imagine a marriage without it and yet I know there are many.

On a more serious subject....I am crazy about who is around and in my kids lives, so Whitney, you are lucky she hasn't brought men around the kids. I think that says a lot about her. My XH knows that I will not allow his crack a** who*es around my kids, but has tried and even made my kids lie about it, which I posted about before.

I just had a very profound conversation with D18 and she said "mom, if he loved you, he would be with you" and although I agree with her to a point, what an 18 year old knows about love is so limited and really it is so much more complicated that that. She said "Mom, he has no job, he can move here and if he really loved you he would" Again, I agree, but his demons are so deep, he just can't get there. No excuses, just the way it is. Sad...really, really sad!!

I am in a weird and very honest mood tonight..

A
smile

I too had a GREAT s*x life with my X. She was my absolute perfect partner. In fact the night before she dropped the bomb we had s*x.
BUT my X had lot's of s*x before me. She spent a couple of years with the "Hollywood" crowd in LA before me.

Yes, fooling around would be a nice option but I have always preferred to be in a committed relationship. It always made the s*x better.

Ya, my X is really good about doing the right stuff when it comes to being divorced and the effect it has on children etc. She is a good mother.

You know I hate to say it but your D is right. In fact I think about that all the time, in that if our spouses really did love us they would be with us. Most of the DB stuff is to just get us through it.

I am thinking about ending this thread and starting a new one called "3 years later and it's time to move on" in the Surviving the Big D section.
I think it's "time".
i'll be interested when you do move on to see what she does.
Ya, me too.

I have noticed her being nicer to me since I have pulled back.

Ultimately I don't think anything will ever change. She lives in such an extreme world of fun, wealth, etc. that she will never really "feel" the emptiness of any of this.

Last night my daughter said she has only seen mommy cry once. I guess my 6 year old son told her he hatted her. I am sure my son was physically exhausted and had something taken away from him by mommy. It's the only time he would ever say something like that. He loves his mom very much.

I don't think my X seems to be effected in any negative way at all through this. In fact she has a much more fun, carefree life now.
maybe she does, maybe she doesnt. i guess it depends if she wants to live a party life forever, or if she wants the traditional family life. as the kids grow, her opportunites to experience that family life go away - but she may not care...
Update:
So, Friday was ski day at school. I went with my daughter.
Saturday morning I got an email from my X "So, how was ski day".
I answered "it was good although a bit cold".
Then my X also wanted to know if our daughter got in the right lessons our daughter wanted.
She just does not seem to get that I don't want to hear from her....Well, of course I do, but not in this way. wink

I am being just to the point and I do not initiate.

Today I took my kids roller-skating for the first time. It was great. I did not send photos, videos or text to X.
Tomorrow the kids and I are taking BMX lessons at a huge indoor BMX park. My X would love to see and hear about it, but that is not going to happen.

I am just livid over this whole situation !
I am still livid too, at times. But, I spent two hours on the phone last night with a very good friend in a horrible marriage, her H has had two affairs, still sorta in one of them, but he is also a control freak, she has no peace at all. I went to bed thinking that at least I don't have to live in constant turmoil and anxiety. I have enough of it still, but it I don't wake up with that each and every morning wondering if he is lying or cheating today or with that pit in my stomach all the time. I hated living like that. I don't love my life without my XH, but love it without that feeling all the time.

I have not really contacted XH in over a week. He called over the weekend and asked me a random question, I was nice and answered, that was it. Then, today he responded to an email I had sent him about stuff (not relationship stuff, life stuff that he needed to know) and he said "thank you for the info, hope you had a good weekend". I didn't respond. I am not going to do a damn thing for him anymore. I have been kinda bitter about him and all he has done the last few days, and today took the cake, we have snow here (which I hate, I miss the south so much), I don't have a garage anymore, had to lug groceries in the snow down a path to get into my house, S15 was helping and noticed a bolt in my tire causing a hissing sound and leak...I had to get back in my truck and drive it to Walmart, tire is unfixable and I have to buy a new one...so I didn't get home to sit down with my glass of wine til almost 9 pm!! All of it just makes me mad!! I didn't choose this, I didn't want this, yet it seems me and the kids are the only ones paying the consequences, our lives had to change and XH is just running all over doing exactly what he wants with no responsibility!! YIKES!! I need a break!!

A
Sorry to hear about the tough day you had with your tire.

So when you heard from your X and he said "hope you had a nice weekend" what did you feel ?
Yep, I got an email from my X today about something and she ended with "I hope you had a nice weekend". WTF ? I was taking care of my kids this weekend because my W left me. My kids are in pain and my 6 year old son was crying for his mom on the weekend.
I have not initiated contact with my X in a month. She has been very nice to me each time she contacts me (kid stuff). On Saturday night she sent me hugs in a text.
I am just burnt out ...
my feeling has always been that God hates us. i believe in Him - i just dont like Him.....or Her...i think its amazing that the walk-aways have absoulutely no insight or empathy......
whtiney - read "the short happy life of Francis Macomber" - a short story by Hemingway
Thanks Whitney!! I am better tonight..how are you?

XH called me today to check on D18, I first ignored his call then, texted him with "what's up" he told me he wanted to know about her and so I asked if he wanted me to call him back, and he did, so I called and was very distant and kept it short. He said his job leads are pickng up and we talked about D18 some too. I was distracted cause I was still at work. I had to really take the time I needed to be able to call him back, because I know he is back with OW#2 again or at least they are in good graces, which I know shouldn't matter to me, but it does. I never said a word to him that I know what is going on, but it was difficult to do that. She is just such a God-awful person and I have no clue why he wants someone like that, but not my problem. It just hurts that he comes up here and is with us and then poof he is gone. I know you are on the MLC boards too and know this is classic MLC stuff, but it is still is hard.

You are doing so great with your no contact. I know it s*cks sooo much and isn't fair at all to you or your kids. I hate where I live and miss so many things about my other life in the south. My friends, tennis all year, my gorgeous house, etc...but most of all my XH's strong arms around me each night, and when I have a night or two of that and then he is gone, it is so painful and I think self-torture..I need to stop letting that happen!!

A
Hi Augtan,

I hear you about the pain with dealing with our X's.
I will tell you that it is very hard not initiating contact but it is better overall.
My X does feel it and I can tell when she contacts me. She is much nicer.

I had to go to my X's house yesterday to pick up my kids skis. My X and I chatted and I backslide and showed her videos off my phone of the kids riding at a BMX park and roller-skating. They did both these things for the first time this weekend when they were with me.
My X laughed at stuff and had a nice little visit.
I drove away so upset that this whole stupid mess does not have to be happening at all. Then I became so mad at myself for showing her the videos. I should have just picked-up the skis and left.

Of course an hour later my X texted me about an event that she was at with my daughter.

So it's been a month since I have told my X that I didn't want to have anymore contact. She has contacted me almost every day. I have not initiated contact once.
I am getting fed up of this whole situation and all the energy that it is taking.

She is going away skiing with my kids this weekend and may end up contacting me. If she does I will probably push back pretty hard.
For me, the anger/bitterness is that she never tried to do anything to work on our situation, not a single thing. Now she acts like nothing is the matter.

On Saturday night my 6 year old son was crying for his mom when I put him to bed. Seeing that makes me so angry.

It would be different if my X and I hated each other and could not be in the same room together but that is not the case.

Augtan, I try not to give advice out unless asked. All I will say is that for me no contact makes my life "a bit" better. For me there is no way I could be intimate with my X and then have her just drop out of my life. That would just destroy me.

I hope everyone has a better day today.

I am going to post something I found that I read sometimes:

Let It Go (by T.D. Jakes)

There are people who can walk away from you.

And hear me when I tell you this! When people can walk away from you: let them walk.

I don't want you to try to talk another person into staying with you, loving you, calling you, caring about you, coming to see you, staying attached to you. I mean hang up the phone.

When people can walk away from you let them walk. Your destiny is never tied to anybody that left.

People leave you because they are not joined to you. And if they are not joined to you, you can't make them stay.

LET THEM GO!

And it doesn't mean that they are a bad person it just means that their part in the story is over. And you've got to know when people's part in your story is over so that you don't keep trying to raise the dead.

You've got to know when it's dead.

You've got to know when it's over. Let me tell you something. I've got the gift of goodbye. It's the tenth spiritual gift, I believe in goodbye. It's not that I'm hateful, it's that I'm faithful, and I know whatever God means for me to have He'll give it to me. And if it takes too much sweat I don't need it. Stop begging people to stay.

LET THEM GO!

If you are holding on to someone that doesn't belong to you and was never intended for your life, then you need to...

LET THEM GO!

If you are holding on to past hurts and pains...

LET IT GO!

If someone can't treat you right, love you back, and see your worth...

LET THEM GO!

If someone has angered you...

LET THEM GO!

If you are holding on to some thoughts of evil and revenge...

LET THEM GO!

If you are involved in a wrong relationship or addiction...

LET THEM GO!

If you are holding on to a job that no longer meets your needs or talents...

LET IT GO!

If you have a bad attitude...

LET IT GO!

If you keep judging others to make yourself feel better...

LET IT GO!

If you are struggling with the healing of a broken relationship.......

LET IT GO!

If you keep trying to help someone who won't even try to help themselves...

LET THEM GO!

If you're feeling depressed and stressed...

LET IT GO!

Get Right or Get Left, think about it, and then...

LET THEM GO!
onesDear Whitney,

It makes me so sad to hear that your little boy missed his mother. He is so young, and doesn't have the coping mechanisms to deal with all that is happening. How can we expect them to be able to cope, when we ourselves struggle daily.

According to the therapist, that we took our son to, your son is coming upon the age that boys need and want their fathers more than their mothers. If your X has geniune concern for your children, hopefully she will encourage and allow your son to have more time with you. Coming from the Mom's perspective, it is tough to let go and allow that attachment to deepen when it is happening in a broken marriage. Especially since I would rather my X to experience less of our child, so that X could feel pain. But, I love my child more than that, and hopefully your X will too.
I had a friend say the other day, that she was more angry with my X, because he intentionally and selfishly did all he did for me, kept in contact ect ect., inorder for me to continue to have feelings for him. I think this is what your X is doing also. She wants to keep you reeled in, even when you have told her not to contact you. It is obvious she cannot let go. Now, if only she would see that the greener grass turns brown with time.

It was painful to read about letting go. I believe there is much truth in what he writes, but it is difficult to let go when the X's are the way ours are. I think you are doing the right thing in trying to let go though, inspite of her refusal to.

Reading how you felt after sharing your videos, is exactly how I feel more often than not. I get so mad at myself after I have had those light happy moments with my X. It is easy for me to forget all the bad whenever we are talking or laughting about our son, but it all comes racing back whenever X leaves. Honestly, it is better for our kids if we get along, but in doing so I feel like I am sanctioning X's leaving us. But, I don't think punishing X will make it more likely he will come back either. LETTING GO, and really letting go is probably the best for us, and the only thing that will get their complete attention. Such a scary thing though. As I have said before, I am scared if I let go, there will never be a chance of restoration, so I am stuck. And while I am stuck, he does whatever he wants, and makes himself feel ok about it.

I am sick of all of this too. What unnecessary pain our children and ourselves are having to endure.

I know this, this life is short, and we have such a small amount of time to influence our children. I want to hear the words, .."Well done, my faithful servant", from the only One whose love never fails.
You captured the essence of all of this so very well.

Yes, letting go is very difficult but hanging on is not working either. It does seem a bit better to try to gain some distance.

Ya, I have no idea what's going on in my X's head and why she keeps contact.
I believe the only reason she keeps in contact is to just "smooth" things over between us.

I have my kids tonight so I can't write too much, sorry.

Have a good night.....
So glad to hear you have your kids still. Enjoy!!!
Whitney I have been keeping up with your thread for it has a little over 2 years for me also.

I feel for you so much, because I'm just like you and Augtan. I'm having such a terrible time this week.

I still pray every day and every night for reconciliation and not just for my M but for anyone that wants reconciliation. I really thought I was the only one still having a really rough time after 2 years. I never thought in a million years my H would be gone this long.

I thank God that there wasn't and isn't a OW in H's life cause I don't think I could take the pain. But then again I'm against a lot of people cause H never could stand to be alone ever since I met him.

If you could hop over to my thread and give me your thoughts I would greatly appreciate it.
Augtan,

You and Whitney have so much in common with me. Was hoping you would hop over to my thread also if you could. I would greatly appreciate it.

I can't believe how much we all have in common.
Unfortunately this same story is shared by many many more. That is what makes it even more heartbreaking.
http://fliiby.com/file/17959/h2hjfqt8uq.html
Hi Christienick,

Thanks for sending the story. I read through it. Had a bit of a hard time focussing on it though.
Can you tell me what you think the moral of the story was?

So, Sunday night I got an email from my X. She had been away all weekend skiing with my kids.
The email said..."Hi, Kids skied great and had a good time. They had no problems with their new gear (I Just bought them new gear). She then said she thought my daughter's skis were cool and that she loved the design on them.

Then ended it with "Good Night"

This was one of those e-mails that never had to be sent to me at all. I did not ask for it at all.

Last night I stopped by my kids school to say hi. I do this often on night I don't have them. I was missing them a lot.
Ok, so I am human like the rest of you and I backslide last night.
I was feeling really down so I sent my X an email. All it said was "miss you"
I know, I know I should not have but I am telling you all just so you know I am a human too.
My X replied back with this; "((((me)))"

So there is the latest.
Hey Whitney,

Ok, what do you think she meant by the "me"? Whatever she meant, I am impressed she replied to your admission. She knowingly, more than once, has stepped over the line you made in regards to contacting you, and if she had not emailed you first, I doubt you would have had the inclination to randomly email her.
Maybe she is reacting to your decision to pull away. My friends tell me often, that once I appear to have moved on the X will have a rude awakening.

I have determined from a conversation I had with X, that he is not having a physical relationship with anyone, and the way in which he told me that sounded convincing. I have imagined the worst, thinking he and OW were getting serious again, so now I am getting hopeful again. What a rollercoaster ride!!!! And who knows what is going on in their minds, certainly not us, and its doubtful they do either.

I keep going back to the DB guidance of GAL. I have thought about dating, but just cannot get excited about doing it. So, I think I am going to take dance classes instead. Kills two birds with one stone, a great workout, and its something I have wanted to do for some time.

I also have thought about a conversation I had with one of the DB coaches in regards to being a lighthouse for XH, being someone who beckons him home. I can only be that though when I am not consumed with thoughts of X, or thoughts of how to control X, or thoughts of X with someone else ect, ect. I can only be a 'lighthouse' when I am being myself, my best self, the self that is aware of my values, beliefs, the self that is honest, and prayerful, the self that will wake up each day and make the day count even if X is still not here.

You are wanting what is right and good Whitney, not only for yourself, but for your children. That makes you a good person in my book, and your X may never find someone like you ever again. Somewhere in her mind she knows that too.

Take care, and I hope you have a great day tommorrow.
Hi YOH,

Thanks for the reply.
Ya, my X replied to me with (((me))). That is her giving me a hug.

Honestly, I really think all my X is interested in is "smoothing things out" between us. I don't believe she has any interest in me at all.
Last night there was a whole bunch of back and forth between us about cute kids stories.
I will tell you I go between feeling good about her to hating her that she does NOTHING to help our family get back together.

I kick myself for contacting her and opening the door for her.

Anyway, I will try to just get back to only replying in a warm way to her contact.

Ya, I hear you about us always thinking the worst when it comes to what we assume our spouses are doing.

Hope today is great for everyone else around here too.
It's a snow day so I get my kids early today ! Yeh !
the moral is - he had a great life - even if for only 30 seconds - when he finally realized he would have a better life without her.
unfortunately, years of hurt, not appeared to have moved on, but actually in your heart moved on - then its too late for them..
Whitney, how are you doing?

I have been trying to stay away from the boards for awhile, as it seems to suck me back in and leave me feeling worse sometimes. But, I had to come on here and tell what has been happeneing the last week.

XH is very mad at me, and isn't talking to me. Which is fine, he has a right to be (long story), but I have apologized and he owes me forgivness cause even though I was wrong it comes no where near to what he has done to me and I have forgiven him, so I have been letting him process things on his own like I should, keeping busy with school, work and the three kids I am raising alone!! I forsure have my moments of bitterness about what he has done and chosen for all of us, but I continue to let it go cause it is the past and nothing I can do about it.

So, last night..D11 comes down stairs crying and saying that she finally told XH all she has wanted to say to him. I asked her what that was and she said... she asked him over and over why he did this to us, told him how unfair it all is and that she doesn't understand how he could do it and that if he really loved her he would have thought about her before he did it (have an affiar and leave us). He never really answered her directly just said "your mom and I couldn't get along" to which she promptly told him was bulls*it! He then said he would "explain" when she was older why he did it" and she told him she was older and wanted an explaination!! He didn't give her one, then told her he was proud of her for sharing how she felt, that he knew she had wanted to tell him for years. She asked him if he would move here and he gave more excuses for not doing that too. Why can't this man step up and be a man?? Why can't he just say there is no excuse, there is no explaination, I made a mistake and I am very sorry for it?? Why can't he just tell her that he should have thought of her and tried harder to make it work? What a coward and a liar and a wimp!! In the past he has even told her that I divorced him and that he didn't want the divorce!! WOW!! That is the furthest from the truth! He told me he was very happy in our marriage 2 months before he started the affair, he is having a classic MLC, alien take over, jeckle to hyde..all of it!!

Anyway, he put on his facebook today:

"I see the angels and demons in my rear view mirror..... Looking forward to the road ahead."

What the heck does that mean? Why would you want to see your angels in the rear view mirror?? Aren't they good for you and suspose to help you? I just don't get him! Does he think because she told him all that that everything is fine and he is able to just move on leaving it all behind him and not caring yet again about the destruction he has caused? Does he really believe his road ahead will be good when he has done nothing to change himself or acknowledge anything he has done to the people who loved him the most? I wish he would ride off into the sunset, never to be seen again...execpt I need money from him...so...I am just so sick of it all!! He has done such awful things and all the consequences are mine and my kids..he seems to have none!

A
Augtan,

I am sooo sorry to hear that you and your daughter are struggling.
I am from divorce myself. My mom separated from my father and he just took off for years. Then I would only see him a few times a year. I carried resentment around for a long time. When I got divorced my father basically said "oh, well". Boy did I lay into him. I let him know exactly what I felt from all the years.

I am glad your daughter "got it out". There is nothing worse than to let emotions fester.
Sadly, you XH is never going to tell your daughter or you that he should have tried harder. That would be a admittance that he was at fault. We all know that our Xs will never do that, especially if the are in a MLC.
My X actually said she was sorry and always would be.

Of course it's classic MLC for them to rewrite history to make us out as the bad guy. I too have experienced that with my X.

2x4 coming......get off Facebook. At least remove him as a friend. I did that in the first weeks of my separation as it was just too painful to see.

Unfortunately our Xs do think it's all going to be good moving forward. It's their selfish thinking.

I have been really good and have not contacted my X. She has contacted me but just about kid stuff. I am noticing that when she does contact me now she seems agitated at me. Good !! Go and stew in it.

I dropped off some gifts for my kids last night while they were out. I even gave my X a beautiful candid photo I took of the kids. I had it blow-up to 24" x 20". I even made the Oak frame for it. Last night the kids video Skyped me and my X came on the screen and said "thanks, it's a nice picture". That's it, that is all she said.
I continue to say to myself "you did a nice thing and who cares what she said". It's who I want to be.

I stopped by my kids school tonight to say hi and I gave my 8 year old daughter 3 roses.

I too have been laying low on the boards. By constantly talking about it, it gives it energy.

I think today was very hard on all us LBSs.

I am alone tonight so I am going to go to my favorit place and sit at the bar and have dinner and a nice microbrewery beer.

Tomorrow will be better day for all of us.
Do you ever have one of those days when you wake up on the really wrong end of the emotional roller coaster ride?
I am having that day !

Yesterday, I was with my XW at our kid's school. Each one of my 2 kids did a half an hour presentation to us on their school projects.
As I sat there it felt like I was in the Twilight Zone.
Here we were 2 parents together with our children yet she had no connection to me at all.
My XW sat there drinking tea from a travel mug with a photo of my 2 kids and their 2 dogs. Just seeing that was like getting a knife in my heart.

At the end of my 6 year old son's presentation I got up. My XW started to read her emails on her phone (that is so upsetting to me). I said bye to her but she was too focussed on her emails.
I started to walk away holding my son's hand and my X said bye.

I see my kids tonight and then they leave for a 2 week trip with my X to Africa. A trip I have done with her a few times. A trip that I always dreamed of doing with her and our kids. frown

Today I am heartbroken.
How could I have a marriage and a family with this person and then one day she just got up and left. I honestly thought she would start to snap out of her fog but as time slips by it appears that that is never going to happen.

Just having a really bad day today.
Whitney..I am soooo sorry!! I totally understand the twilight thing!! I even said to XH "don't you sometimes feel like you are in a twilight zone...cause we had such a normal life before and now it is like this" He said "I don't really think about it" But that was a long time ago, now I think he gets it, kinda.

I wish the feeling of heartbreak would just end. I pray each and everyday and that is all that helps me, and not as much as I wish it did.

Africa?? How can your kids miss two weeks of school? Wow!! That is nuts, I can't imagine my kids doing that kind of thing with out me. I would be so upset too.

I am thinking of you and praying for you! Try to keep busy, that is all I can think to tell you to do. Sending you hugs!!

((Whitney))

A
Thanks so much for just letting me vent. I appreciate the kindness.

There really is no one else I can tell this stuff to.
No one would understand.

My kids are in SK and grade 2 so it's not too bad that they miss that much school.

My little girl had lots of tears tonight at bedtime over being away for 2 weeks.

What can I do ........ nothing..... it is what it is.
Whitney-

How are you doing with the kids being gone? Hope you are keeping busy! Just wanted to update on my sitch...Let me know how you are too!!

I posted this on MLC board, and got no response, I am kinda over that board, no one ever really responds to me...I don't know why..But, I wanted to post it here and see what you think...

Just wanted to journal an update on my situation with XH...

He is still without a job, but is close, has a few offers coming in this next week and still interviewing. We have talked a lot about us all moving to where ever he gets a job or even back to the city we lived in but to a totally different part, at least 50 miles away from where we were...long story why..but I will not go back to where we were, it isn't a good place for me or my kids.

Last night when we talked, I said "we need to be in the same place for the kids" XH said "the same place?", I said "same town" he said "same place and same town aren't the same" I didn't say anythinig, just moved on, but could tell he wanted no part of living togethter in this new town...so that made me sad, but I know that is not at all where he is with "us" right now anyway, so not a shock.

Then we talked about S15 who doesn't want to move at all and XH said "D15 will be fine, even if he doesn't want to admit it, he needs me and I need him (his voice was kinda cracking and he was choked up)" I said "you need us too, we need you, I need you..not like that but to help me with the kids" XH said "you need me to (insert sexual reference)" I said "oh that too, but we all need each other" We both laughted.

As many know, XH and I have never stopped ML for very long thru all of this. I read all of the posts by "Butterfly" and her H and their restored relationship and dont' think this is as bad as I previously thought, her H said it did keep them connected and that he thought it was part of why he did come home...so I am not going to beat myself up about continuing to ML with XH when he is up here.

I am not sure what is going to happen, but I don't want to be back together with him on only that level when we live in the same town and him think he can just date and stuff right in front of me all while we are MLing on a regualr basis, it is different since we live 700 miles apart now. but if we are in the same town, I will have to be strong and cross that bridge when it comes. I will not give him any ultimatiums such as "we have to be together if I move to where you live" or anything like that, I am moving there for our kids to have their father in their lives.

I want to handle this all very carfully and make sure I do it as best I can and not push him away. I want to be his friend, but I don't want to be those people who say "oh, we are divorced and great friends, we get along better this way, we can't be married, we can't live together but are great friends apart...etc." I hate when people say that, it might be true for some people, but those people aren't attracted to each other anymore or something. I don't want to pressure him, I want it to be totally him who comes to me and says he wants to try to work things out and be a family again. I don't think it will be good or right if he does it cause it is what "falls into place" or because of finances or whatever the reason..I want him to want it so bad that he is willing to do whatever it takes...is that wrong? Is that only wishful thinking and that never happenes with and MLCer? I don't have any expectations really at all of this happening, and I guess that is why I set it so high, cause I really feel it isn't in him to do that. Because when we live in the same town he will get to see the kids as much as he wants, and I think that is a good thing, cause the kids need him in their life, but I am afraid he will be satisfied with just that and not feel the need to come home to me. Does that make sense? I will have to have very strong boundries and not fall back into being the "XW with benefits" and doing everything a wife does for her H, but he is still free to do as he pleases cause we are really D'd.

I don't know, I guess I am just doing so well, and am very proud of myself, I don't contact him at all and am fine with it, but he continues to come to me and tell me stuff...

I am rambling..so I will stop for now. Just so want him to WANT to come home, and I want it to come from him, and for him to process it all by himself and come to the conclusion that we love him so much and that he belongs with us..all of us, me included!

A
Hi there.

Ummm, well... from what I have read no X ever comes running back committed 100%. It's seems like it is a very slow process in bits and pieces and a challenging one at that. That it's one step forward and many steps backward.
I guess the fact that he is not running away is a positive sign BUT as you have pointed out yourself...caution is what is needed.
As you also know, you really can't do much about the situation except protect yourself with boundaries that only you know.

I would suggest to just continue with all the DB stuff. GAL, be positive around him, no pursuing and acting as if. He knows you would love your family put back together.
Remember this is all about him. He has to do the work himself.
As you also wrote...you don't want to be his fallback because it's easy.

I have been really good since my kids have left on Thursday.
My kids phoned me at the airport just as they were getting on the plane. I spoke to the kids and when we were done I just hung up the phone. I did not talk to my X at all. I never gave her the chance to even talk to me.

Then yesterday the most bizarre thing happened. I received an email from my mother-in-law. My in laws are on the trip in Africa with my X. In fact their whole family is there on a big safari.
My MIL sent me a photo of my kids and X on their safari. There was no title in the subject line of the email and no note with the photo. Initially I was very upset. How could my MIL be so insensitive that I might be hurting that I am sitting here while my family is off on some dream vacation.
I spoke to my mother who suggested that maybe my MIL was not feeling too good about the situation either.
All I wrote back to the MIL was "cute, love to all"

My MIL has never sent me anything.
Well, thought I would update...

My kids have been away on vacation for 10 days now in Africa.

On Saturday I received an email from my X telling me how good the kids have been on their trip and that the kids are dying to talk to me. She told me they would call the next day.
She signed her email with "Big Hugs"

What does "Big Hugs" mean?

The next day they all called. The kids were excited to tell me stories etc. It was nice to hear from everyone.
Today I am not feeling so great. My family is off on a huge trip that I would have been on.

I just seem to be stuck with this one aching feeling.
It just feels like my X is so happy and not bothered in the slightest by all of this. It just seems like a perfect world for her. It's like she has never been happier and I was just a passing phase in her life. Honestly I feel like I was just a sperm donor.

Not feeling warm and fuzzy today.

On Friday I am going to the airport to pick up my kids. It's my weekend with them so my X suggested that I could get them at the airport.

Arrrrgggg...just venting
i'm still interested in seeing how the completely ignoring her works - give it some time - either (most likley) it will be over and youre out of limbo or (much less likely) shell reconsider - at least youll be out of this nightmare....
Ya, it's much better when I don't talk to her.

I actually was doing really well. I went a whole week not having any contact as she was in Africa.
It's funny how a couple of words can suck you right back in.

In a way I don't think any of us every truly get out of the nightmare if we have kids.

You probably read that my MIL sent me an email photo of my x and my kids in Africa last week. It was so weird to get that. Only a photo came, no note, no subject. I wrote her a quick reply and never heard anything back. She has never sent me anything before.
Whitney,

This whole journey is still amazing to me. I am so sick of all of it. My XH made a big leap back into the tunnel today and I am really feeling done with all of his games and stuff. If I don't put an end to it, it will never end and I can't live like this anymore. He is not going to be better anytime soon, and I am sick and tired of waiting, it is too hard.

The email from your MIL is very perplexing to me. I don't know what to think of that, and it isn't me, so I can only imagine what you think and feel about it. That is a weird one, forsure. My guess is that she has huge guilt over what her daugher has done. I know if it were my daughter, I would! I have and continue to try to raise my kids with compassion, morals, integrity, honesty, and to treat people as you would want to be treated. They have watched my XH do horrible things to me and really to them too...and I haven't always handled it right, but in the end I have used it as a learning tool. If it was my child doing what your XW is doing, I would be beyond disappointed in her, as my daughter and as the person I raised. I don't care how much you love your child, wrong is wrong and as a parent you know that deep down. But, this is one of those things you will never really know the answer to and it is best to just forget it and move on.

Have a great time with your kids when they get back. They will be so thrilled to see you, you are an amazing dad and I so wish I had chosen a "real" man and father like you for my kids. My kids got jiped and it [censored]!!

A
Hi Augtan,

I am sick of all this as well.
I think we are all sick of the in and out of the tunnel stuff.

Thank you so much for saying that I am a good dad.
I love being with my kids. It gives me the greatest joy in the world. I would rather be with my kids than go out dating.

March break is coming up so I will have my kids for 2 weeks !! We are going away skiing, going to a piano concert, going to the indoor BMX park, going to a maple syrup festival, Supercross motorcycle race etc....

You hang in there too and thanks again for always relying to me when I am having a challenging day.
does anyone know if there are any books along the "divorced but still trying concept"
I am not aware of any. Of course Michele's books cover chapters on this.

It's pretty straight forward:

GAL = be all that your are and how you were when you first met your spouse. Be dedicated to something your are passionate about....work, hobbies etc.

Act As if = Be positive and move forward with your life.

Focus on yourself = take the time to explore all that makes you happy as an individual. Take the time to learn about yourself, relationships, communications etc.

Focus on your kids = Make their lives the best you can given the situation.

That is really all you can do at this point. You have to leave your spouse to do what they need to do as they are going to do it anyway.

That being said, it still all [censored] ! There are good days and there are bad days.
When I leave my X alone she becomes friendlier. When I reciprocate warm and fuzzy feelings she pulls back.

It's such a waste, but there is nothing you can do about it other than all you are doing.
thanks
smile
to show you how dumb i am, i still wear my wedding ring 4 years later
Not dumb at all Christienick.
It just shows you you miss being married and all the feelings of love that go along with it.
I (and most on this board) can relate 100%.
Hi there everyone,
I came to these boards more than 3 years ago and they helped me cope with my H's determination to leave our marriage. He swore he was not having and affair and I believed him. I know--DUMB. He STILL claims he was not having an affair, but clearly it was an EA if not a sexual affair.

Though he did not tell me he was "seeing someone" until several months after he left (when our older daughter saw an email he and the OW had exchanged), he told me he actually did start seeing her that summer. He left at the end of June 2008, so do the math. And it was a woman he had worked with for several years and who left her own marriage at exactly the same time.

Anyway, fast forward to now: I had a bf for over year, which was fun and very distracting for a while, but ultimately it didn't work and we ended things a couple of months ago. I'm not heartbroken over that relationship, but it feels now like the anesthesia has worn off and I am re-experiencing the pain of H's leaving--and WORSE, much worse, the fact that he is still with the OW, who has two boys the same age as my girls. H & I have 50/50 custody, and essentially every other weekend they spend with him, his gf, and her two sons. My girls like all of them and often allude to the good times they have with dad, his gf, and her boys and it is still KILLING me.

I WANT to be OK with this, to meet her (I've asked H to introduce me several times and he won't because I've said some mean things about her). For my kid's sake, I want to rise above it all--but it's TOO HARD and I fall apart inside each time they mention their other life with dad and gf and the kids.

I know that if I were in a happy relationship, it would be so much easier. I can't say at this point that I love H or care much about his private life--but I still feel totally deceived by what he did and the fact that he INSTANTLY created this Brady-Bunch like family is a non-stop nightmare.

I've made a life for myself. I got a full time job a year ago, after 18 years freelancing during my marriage. I've dated and had a relationship. I realize that I will always be my D's mother no matter what, yet STILL I am beside myself with pain (have also been in therapy and taken ADs). I constantly have to pretend that I'm OK so my kids don't worry about me, and I'm just exhausted by the pretending.

So, I'm letting it out here because I found it so helpful back when we were just separating. I am NOT "standing," we are almost officially divorced, so that's no longer on the table. But I am in terrible pain over having to share my kids like this and I don't know what to do to get over it.

Thanks for letting me vent!

Me/H: 47/47
D14, D10
ILYBIDLYA: Oct 2007
H moved out: June 2008
D almost final
i know we try to hold on, but a sitch like that seeems like its done - most of the time the new relationship doesnt work, but here it appears it has - i think youhave to wish him happiness and go out and find your own now....
Oh, it's definitely done--I just can't stand how it's turned out and while wishing him happiness sounds good in theory, I am in way too much personal pain to actually feel that way. It's like the nightmare that I never wake up from. Just this morning I learned that he and his gf are heading to Rome for a week!

Mostly, I hate that he instantly created a whole new family with MY kids.

I am still in shock that my H--who was such a good guy with two capital G's, and who said he wasn't having an A, that he had to leave to be "alone" and to get "space" actually turned out to be a total MLC cliche. And he apparently feels no guilt whatsoever. It's just astonishing to me--and, again, hitting me anew now that my own post-M relationship is over.

Initially, it was kind of fun to be single again, to do online dating, to look forward to a new life. But now, 3 years later, I'm just tired and discouraged and completely pessimistic about my romantic future.

I know, I know--GAL, all that. I DO THAT and I keep doing it and I know I can't control what my XH does, but the anger and pain I feel is just unbearable.
Newnamenewlife,

I am so sorry to hear that you too are feeling all of those feelings.
I too feel EXACTLY the same feelings and I am sure many others do on this forum.
Please know that I feel for you 100 %.
Sadly there is nothing we can do about any of this. frown

Some days are better than others.
Hope you have a few good days.

Thanks for posting to my thread. I appreciate it !

(((for a better day)))
newname - what kind of men did you meet on the dating scene? any nice guys? hows the prospects for a 47 yo female? i would think there are lots of nice guys.
guess he's done!
No, I am still here.
I am just burnt out of posting.
Quiet frankly I am trying to not give any of this crap energy.
Still good days and bad days but just plugging along.
ok - just thought something really good or really bad happened
i guess the minimal contact didnt get her to come around
Ok, here is a quick update.

Yes, I have gone dim with my XW. We have 2 kids so I still have contact with her every few days. We both share duties of getting the kids to all their sports etc.

In the last month I have been out with my XW and the kids 4 times. She has initiated each time, as the kids were with me at the time.
I don't think my XW is doing it to spend time with me. I think she just wants the kids to see we all get along well.

I will say it's still a roller coaster of emotions. I do miss her, but many times think I miss the thought of her and being a family. It's lonely for a lot of us on here. One day you are a family and then one day you are sitting alone with no one.

I have made a really great life with my kids now. We do everything together and travel a lot. I don't even know if my XW would even fit into our new lifestyle anymore.

On a side note my EX has become so skinny from working out and changing her diet that I have become worried. I really can't do anything about it but hope that it get's better. I have a feeling that she may be starting to struggle.

Anyway, sorry I have not posted in a long time. I am just living day by day. Some days are good and some days are not as good.
I will encourage anyone to try to pull back from their Xs. It really is better and makes it easier to deal with. We all end up doing this when we are finally strong enough. I just wish I was strong enough to have done that when this first happened 3 years ago.
When I do go out with my XW and our kids I find I am sad for about 24 hours afterwards. But I guess I still do it with the "hope" that something may change for her.
thanks for the update
update?
Hi there !

Thanks for checking in.
Well, not much to report. Have been out a number of times with my x and our kids.

X and I went to see a family therapist to make sure everything is ok with our 8 year old daughter. It turns out that our daughter is having trouble understanding why we are divorced. Geee I wonder why she thinks that considering we all go out as a family and hug each other on occasion.

Needless to say we will not be going out as a family anymore. Pretty much all the family therapists highly recommend against going out as a family as it is too confusing for the kids......

So, I don't really contact my x but she contacts me every few days over kids stuff. She is always pleasant but that is about it.

So that is the update.
Wow..I had no clue the family therapist would say that, I know they would in our case cause we always end up fighting and I cry, because we were still intimate and he stayed at my house and such, but if things are good and you get along around them, I would think it would show them that you can get along and such.

I understand it might be confusing too though. But, I have had several adult friends whos parents did this when they were kids and even had holidays with everyone including step parents and step kids, and they seemed to appreciate it and like that they knew that their parents could be in the same room for graduations, weddings, etc.

I finally have detatched from my ex. I just hung up with him and that was the first time I had had any real contact with him in weeks. We did have issues with our D18 and I talked to him briefly then and he texted me and emailed me on Mother's Day, but that is it, nothing like before and I haven't been anxious or counting the "no contact days" etc. He is a lost soul and is very broken. He doesn't want to do anything about it and he doesn't even want to change his lifestlye to have his kids in his life. For the last four years I have tried to be good to him and such, and now I am finally ready to make it only about me and my kids, he is out of the picture. He had his chance and he blew it, actually many chances. He comes up here in a week for D18's HS graduation, he is not invited to the family party, he is not staying at my house, I hope he doesn't even speak to me. There is nothing left to say or do, that is how real divorce is and we are really divorced!! It is beyond sad and my D12 is very messed up by all that has gone on. She will never be who she would have been had this not happened, but now I just have to pick her up and do the best I can to help her. My life was about trying to fix him so my kids could have their dad back, trying to show him I had changed and that he should want me and the kids back, I thought if I could succeed in that it would benefit my kids so much, but I can't do it and I have to stop trying, it is only about my kids now and I will not walk on egg shells for him anymore.

Sorry I hijacked with my own update, but it has been so long and I was glad to see you back on here too. I have been away for awhile and it has helped me detatch and move on. Hang in there!

A
Hi Augtan,

I am glad that you posted your update. It helps me too.

I am sorry to hear your D12 is having a hard time. I am a child of divorce and it's not easy.

I just can't seem to separate myself from my X. I really think she just wants us all to get along great and all be happy. As I said I don't contact her anymore but seem to get sucked back in when she contacts me.

Oh well, lives moves on....

You hang in there too.
i think this whole thread (divorced but not done) only goes to prove that the wayward spouses never come back except once in a blue moon, and that the marriages are done for good. i would wonder what michelles opinion would be on this - that is to say, is there a plan divorce-busting plan once youre divorced, or is it time to go forward.
I think it's time to move forward.

I have been on these boards for 3 years now and only know of a handful of spouses that have come back.
I would also "guess" that is only the men that come back.
Originally Posted By: whitneypinch
I think it's time to move forward.

I have been on these boards for 3 years now and only know of a handful of spouses that have come back.
I would also "guess" that is only the men that come back.



Funny enough, I was discussing this very thing on another thread. This seems to be the consensus. The women rarely ever return. Once they are done, they are done for good. They never come back.

Part of my thread:

"There have to be changes in the person that left too. That person has to be able to acknowledge that they had a part in the deterioration of the marriage too. There are so many factors involved, perhaps that's why it's so very rare for a woman to return.

True change is very difficult for all parties. Someone has to be supremely motivated to do so, and even then, if it isn't for the right reason, it won't be true. There has to be enough time and interest from the partner that left to acknowledge and believe the changes. Ultimately, to come back means that the partner that left has some fault as well. This is too difficult for some to admit. That would mean the pain and suffering caused to the entire family wasn't necessary and that is too large of a burden to admit.

So many factors, the odds of anyone returning must be slim to none."
yep !

Most of the change happens with the LBS. We are forced to go through such trauma that positive change is usually the by-product.
The Walk Away generally does not go through as deep of a trauma therefor is not as motivated to look deeply to what needs to be done.

In the end either you are committed to marriage or it's disposable.
Unfortunately we have become a disposable culture that was started in the late 70's with the Me Generation. (be happy at all costs)

Just like the environmental crisis most people are going to have to see catastrophic negative results until they start to change their values and ways.
Posted By: JMC Re: 2 years later it's still not getting easier - 06/06/11 02:24 PM
Originally Posted By: whitneypinch
I think it's time to move forward.

I have been on these boards for 3 years now and only know of a handful of spouses that have come back.
I would also "guess" that is only the men that come back.


This has been my opinion as well. There have been other sites I have checked and it appears that men come back more than women. However, that could be because more women use these forums. Who knows. Howeve, at my high school reunion last fall one of my classmates did get re-married to his ex-wife who had left him for an OM. Not sure how long they were divorced and all the details as I received this information second hand and did not get a chance to talk to the actual source.

I also wonder about the statistic regarding relationships and ultimately marriages that fail. It has been a while since I have checked my sources, but I remember seeing that most affairs end anywhere from 6 months to 4 years and 85% of marriages to the affair partner end in divorce within 5 years. However, I can think of four cases off the top of my head where that has not been the case.

Anyway, just my $0.02. I had a lonely weekend and for whatever reason was thinking about her more than usual. Oh well, as someone posted there are good days and bad days as we continue to GAL.
Yep, good days and bad days for all of us !

I had a GREAT weekend with my 2 kids. I rode a 25km charity bicycle ride with my 8 year old daughter. My kids and I have been restoring a 1949 Schwinn tandem bike for months. We just finished it in time for my daughter and I to ride together this weekend in the event.
She had a great time and will remember it forever.

Of course my XW sent an email asking how the ride went? You can just imagine what I really wanted to say to her back. But I just wrote it was GREAT and sent her some photos.

In the end our spouses lose so much of their children's lives through divorce.

When we all are on our death bed how many of us will say "I wish I had more time with our kids?"

Good riddance all you Walk Away Spouses !

I am DONE !
nice work
Yep !

I sent my XW a note yesterday telling her to stop contacting me after every experience I have with the kids. I told her if she wants to know how an event went then she can ask the kids when they are with her.
She replied "ok, as you wish".

I don't have a clue who my XW is anymore.

Done ! Done ! Done !
im still shocked that after all this time she hasnt introduced a new guy to the kids. i wonder what she will think when you meet up end up with some smart pretty woman.
I don't think she is seeing anyone.
maybe lesbian? not that theres anything wrong with that?
No, just really social with lots of friends and family.
Trust me she is having fun.
Posted By: JMC Re: 2 years later it's still not getting easier - 06/08/11 12:24 PM
Originally Posted By: christienick
im still shocked that after all this time she hasnt introduced a new guy to the kids. i wonder what she will think when you meet up end up with some smart pretty woman.

Be thankful she has not. That is painful for you and the kids. At least it was for me and my daughter, 24 at the time and out of college, who had to meet OM on her mother's birthday. My daughter told me later she was devastated and proceeded to drown her disgust. Seeing that our daughter was annoyed and not having a good time my ex went over to her and said "why are you so needy?" Knowing that my then separated wife was seeing this guy I later asked my daughter if her mother had introduced her to anyone, to which my brilliant daughter replied "you mean the chain-smoking redneck?". That's my girl! That will be four years ago this fall and my duaghter is now married to her long-time beau, and she now simply states that her mom is a different person.
Thanks for the reply JMC !

To tell you the truth I do everything with my kids and love it. If I was to introduce a new person into our lives it would not work out. Honestly there is no room for it. I am ok with that.

I am sure my XW has a number of guys in her life, just none serious. She is more of the dating type.

Lately I have been putting up more and more boundaries with my X. It's an effort to push her further away. It's jut too painful to have her around.
keep us updated. mine was with another woman, and i exposed it and he went postal.. they hadnt completed the plan of both getting divorced (him first, then her) and then just happening to meet. now family and friends know that the secret love birds had this planned all along while the spouses were home doing the best they could - in the dark the whole time....
Ya, there was another guy involved just before she left. It was clearly an emotional affair, which of course she denied. My guess it was physical as well.
So who knows.

But really, I just want to get to the point of not caring.
Detachment is your friend.

Volunteer at a hospital or with the elderly or something that gets you out of yourself. Show your kids that there is more to this world than "endless fun". Remember Princess Diana doing all that work with AIDS patients and people who lost limbs to hidden mines?

If anyone on this earth had the means to just "have fun" it was her. But she was bigger than that. Or she grew bigger than that.

And I'll bet she didn't think too much about Charles and Camilla. They became pretty small I bet, in the whole scheme of things...

I volunteer with my local Hospice. Have a dying 95 year old man that I have been visiting for the past 2 months.

It helps put things in perspective. Helps make sense of this. Brings back a purpose.

Helps to detach.
Quick hijack: Hi Laura! sounds if you are doing really well. Stop by my tread sometime and we can catch up.

I have known a few couples that divorced and then reconciled/remarried. They seemed to get all their issues out of their systems before they could reconcile. Keep working on you and get yourself to a place where you are happy just being you. There is no time clock, we all get there in our own time.

kat
LO,

Thanks for stopping in to post.

You are absolutely right. I have been thinking about projects of social value that I might get involved in.

Yep, detachment is your friend.
im still waiting for some major event to occcur - like you meet someone and thats it for ex
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