Just my bookmark:
Last Thread Jeff 52, former W 44, son 10, daughter 6.
Married 12 years, together 15.
Bomb: Feb 2006
I moved out (to give her space): May 2006
She wants a D: June 2006
Filed for D: Sept 2006
D final: Jan 2008
No recap.
Happy New Year. I so hope this one is better. But I said that last year too.
My last thread locked but I thought I would open one here until the divorce is final next month. Almost two years to the day.
W found a house and her offer was accepted. She emailed that she had "good news" and how "thrilled" she was.
I felt that I was once again hit in the gut when I was not looking. It hurt. I thought I was detached - past it. Not.
I did not respond to her email.
I was hoping. That is a bad thing to do. I was hoping with her mom's recent death and her opening up to me recently and with the holiday (you know, good will toward men) that maybe there was a crack in the armor. But no.
Can't help it - I still love her despite everything I said.
Or --- is it love or is it the loss? Loss of family and loss of my *control* of my life????
I just don't know.
I did not respond to her "good news" so she calls me. First, during 'movie night' with the kids. That crossed a boundry and I let her know. She got mad (all about her) but backed down.
She calls the next day earlier than she said she would. I was tired and did a poor job acting upbeat.
She asks "did I get the email"? I said (with a bit of sarcasm) "what email"? Long pause by her then she said "about the house".
I told her I was happy for her.
She then keeps me on the phone 30-minutes, asking all kinds of questions and asking if she did well (several times). All I did was validate and pat her on the back. She did do well I have to admit. I saw the house and it is nice and she got a good deal.
Then she asks about the settlement. Have to polish the papers some; she admitted her lawyer made an error (which I pointed out when she accused me of holding things up a few months ago). She asked for the latest copy - claims her lawyer did not have it (a lie by her lawyer - I checked with my lawyer: she delivered it to him two weeks ago).
Then she says that we should sign "together" next week. I told her we did not need to be there together. She almost insisted (she reminded me that I once joked about her having to buy ice cream if we settle so if we sign together she would buy) but she changed the subject back to the house.
Overall I am back in my depressed state. Please don't beat me up for the pity-party. Nothing much is going right in my life right now.
I have reread some of my past threads. I do not recognize that guy. It is SO interesting how my attitude and feelings changed over time and continue to change.
I am still not where I want to be. Hopefully next year will be better. I do get my house back but the place is falling apart and I just am not motivated to fix it up.
Guess I need to find a female who is good with tools! LOL.
Again, Happy New Year everyone.
Strength and Honor.
Oh Jeff I'm sorry you're down. I read your last thread with STBXW's "I'm so thrilled" email ... in my opinion it was insensitive. But what can you do? If I were in your shoes it would be hard to lie and say "oh yes I'm so happy for you" but on the other hand I wouldn't want to spew out any anger. Sigh
She wants you to be happy for her and pat her on the back. For what? Being a brave girl, getting the D, getting her independence, going it all alone no matter who gets hurt ... it takes more bravery to stay and try to make things work, but obviously she doesn't want to do that. You gave it all you could.
Jeff, I know you are down and I'm not going to pull you out of any pity party, you're entitled to feel down. But you did all you could. You came here, you listened, you made changes, you accepted the 2x4's, you did far more to save your M than most people do. You are to be congratulated on that.
But there are no gurantees with DB. you can do it all 100% right and still end up x-filed. But you took the noble path and at least TRIED. you can ever hold your head up for that one.
And ... you have changed, you've said so yourself. But you say you're still not where you want to be. Where is that? Could you be specific about where you want to be? I'm getting at .. you guessed it .. goals. What are your goals and what needs to happen for you to get there? 2008 beckons, let it be YOUR year.
Finally .. if I could I would send round to your house a bevvy of beautiful ladies who are all DIY experts. They'd have it fixed up in no time and put a smile on your face
Hey, Boo, Happy New Year.
Sorry you are struggling. Perfectly understandable under the circumstances.
Sounds like Missy Ma'am wants daddy to give his blessing to her new car...or boyfriend...or choice of college.
Let me suggest this to you: if you see her like she has shown herself to be recently, as a child who perceives that she failed to receive the love and validation that she wanted as a child, as a child who now struggles to claim that missing love and validation, and who attempts to fill that void as an "adult", and who fails miserably because that kind of love and acceptance can only come from within, then maybe you can let go of your anger and disappointment and instead feel compassion for her. Maybe you can accept that you, nor anyone else, can fill that void for her, and that until she reconciles these issues on her own, that with such limited emotional capacity, this is all she is capable of, this is the best she can do. Maybe then you can accept that this is not the relationship that you want or deserve, and she's not capable of giving you that. The best you can wish for her is that she try to work on herself, and work on finally filling the hole in her heart with love for and acceptance of herself. Maybe she will get there, maybe she won't.
All you can do is let her fly.
In the meantime, you sound like a man who could use an extended vacay to some place warm and sunny, where they bring you little drinks with umbrellas in them, where you spend endless hours drawing pictures in the sand with your toes, and where you start growing those dreadlocks.
Work on that.
besos,
BA
BBA,
What a great response. I was kind of 'stuck' on what to say but you said it best.
Jeff, this is very bold advice. Worth thinking about.
as always,
your friend,
frankd
She wants you to be happy for her and pat her on the back. For what? Being a brave girl, getting the D, getting her independence, going it all alone no matter who gets hurt ... it takes more bravery to stay and try to make things work, but obviously she doesn't want to do that. You gave it all you could.
Thanks Jenny. I guess I am feeling sorry for her. You hit it on the head.
Sounds like Missy Ma'am wants daddy to give his blessing to her new car...or boyfriend...or choice of college.
BBA, thanks also (and Happy Holiday - your thread locked).
No, Missy wants daddy to give his blessing for moving out "on her own" - like she is off to college or something. She is scared to death I bet but she is looking forward to "spreading her wings" so to speak. Just like she is 18 years old. How come I could not see that until your post?
And let me post a recent email from her to show how your assessment fits perfectly BBA:
"Hey Jeff, I looked at a satellite picture of our house and the new house. The new house wasn't on the picture, but where I think it is is only about 1000 ft from our house. Just on the other side of the creek behind the neighbor's house."
Kind of like saying, "although I am moving I am still close by - I can be home for weekends daddy".
a child who now struggles to claim that missing love and validation, and who attempts to fill that void as an "adult", and who fails miserably because that kind of love and acceptance can only come from within, then maybe you can let go of your anger and disappointment and instead feel compassion for her.
Right on again. You exorcised my anger with that remark. Thanks. Compassion it is, and that is so much better a feeling, believe me.
And she needs compassion. I remember how "great" it was when I moved to the apartment. Yes, great for the first few months. And then it hits you how great it is NOT. How alone you really are.
Maybe then you can accept that this is not the relationship that you want or deserve, and she's not capable of giving you that.
Yes again. I am beginning to see the dynamic here. Why am I beating myself up to want someone who is acting like a teenager? What does that say about me and my self-esteem?
The best you can wish for her is that she try to work on herself, and work on finally filling the hole in her heart with love for and acceptance of herself.
That is the path.
Thanks again. Maybe I do need a little umbrella in my drink (not the Tenn Whisky - something colorful!
And thanks for sticking with me frank_D. I know you have much on your own plate right now and I am a pain in the a$$ most of the time.
Yes again. I am beginning to see the dynamic here. Why am I beating myself up to want someone who is acting like a teenager? What does that say about me and my self-esteem?
I think it says that you on some level derive your self worth by being needed by her, by being her rescuer, by being her white knight.
That's a pretty basic male ego driven thing, as I understand it.
Where you run into trouble is when it becomes co-dependent, and as a result, unhealthy, as it does when you have someone on the other side of the equation who has that desperate need for love and acceptance by the man in her life.
So you stop the cycle by accepting and loving yourself, rather than trying to get the validation and reassurance that you need by being her rescuer.
You're a good man, Jeff. You're smart, you're funny, you're a good dad and a good son. You're loyal, a good listener, and a compassionate and thoughtful friend. And I suspect there are lots of other, um, fine qualities that I can only wonder about...
You're no frog, Boo; you don't need any woman to turn you into a prince.
Now get your butt to the beach.
besos,
BA
I would like to see you with dreadlocks.
I think it says that you on some level derive your self worth by being needed by her, by being her rescuer
Hey, another light bulb moment! Thanks.
I do see now how I fed on her wanting me to be her daddy. Made me feel good. Only I thought I was doing the family leader and protector role, not a daddy role.
I was very blind. And when she pulled away from her needing me, as she shifted focus to the kids, I took it personally and tried to keep her in the 'nest' - her being dependent on me. She was dependent on me doing things/decisions and I was dependent on being "in charge" and doing for her.
Duh...........
Of course it came back on me since she would not work on herself to resolve her "need" for a daddy. No wonder she thought me controlling.
Duh...........
It all fits. And now she lost her mom and is now looking to me again for emotional support and validation.
Only took me two years to realize all this.
Now, how best to use this insight for my growth.
Happy New Year Jeff, You may not be feeling very happy right about now but this will be your year I'm thinking. My suggestion would be to try and get off the roller coaster. By that I mean when you talk to the stbxw, don't be upbeat and validating or angry or resentful. There is a third option, just be straightforward and keep things short and businesslike. That's what I've been doing the past few months and don't know/don't really care what the ex thinks about it but I feel a lot more grounded after any conversations. Think that us men sometimes overanalyze things in an attempt to be "Mr. Fixit". Something to think about anyway. Take it easy, RonJon
By that I mean when you talk to the stbxw, don't be upbeat and validating or angry or resentful. There is a third option, just be straightforward and keep things short and businesslike.
I second that! This is what I have been doing for some time now, and it works well for me. I simply do not discuss anything personal with stbx. he used to ask me how I was doing and what I was up to, and I would tell him what I was doing, and be all upbeat and happy. And then I thought, "Why am I sharing myself with someone who just sucks me dry and gives me nothing in return?" So I stopped. And when he started telling me about his life, I ended the convo. It may sound bitter or resentful, but it's not. He is an acquaintance,, not a spouse, not a friend - not someone with whom I share anything...except two children!!
Thanks Ron and Nic. I believe you are right.
This is a good thread - so much insight.
I don't like to seem down when I interact with her. That makes me feel bad. I do like when I am upbeat but netural may be best.
---------------
Nothing new really. W still is looking forward to moving. I went to the house to pick up the kids and she insisted on showing me all she has done. She is not closing for three weeks but she has packed a lot of stuff. Her best girlfriend was over helping her and cheering her on no doubt.
I sensed again that she wanted me to 'confirm' what a great job she was doing. I basically kept my trap shut. In fact, I had to cut things short. She was not gloating or even appeared happy really - she just seemed down and like she needed me to confirm that she was doing well and that everything would be okay.
She has left me some stuff I thought she would take. That is good but I do not want too much of the old stuff. Better to start fresh. My hobby stuff was well covered in the settlement agreement so I was not concerned about that. She asked about 'trading' some stuff. I have no problem in that I am not attached to anything specifically.
I am looking forward to leaving this apartment. It has been great but time to move.
This is all so senseless in a way. But as Nic points out they take and take and give nothing back. That is no way to live or to love. I best avoid that co-dependence trap this time.
I deserve a better R than that!
Strength and Honor.
Journal.
More of the same. W calls me at work. She has been saying "Jeff, this is xxx" in a business-like tone. Today it was a big "Hey" like we always did to each other in happier times. I almost did not realize it was her.
She first asked about the kids - I had them this weekend and today school restarted after Christmas break. She was very upbeat and talked like we were still together.
Then she asked about insurance on her new house and other inspection things to support the final closing. She was clueless on so many things but I am not so sure she knew but wanted to "run it by" me first, like she always did.
I felt a bit used again but I was as helpful as I could be - WTF does it matter. I don't need this co-dependent stuff but I don't need to act like a child either.
Then she asked about some final paperwork I received from her attorney. I told her I could not provide info or sign until I talked to my lawyer. She became upset, not angry but in a 'concerned' sort of way. She said that she thought we would sign all this stuff "together". I said she should sign first and I would get with my lawyer after. She almost started to cry like she needed us to do it together.
But she agreed to sign first and we left it at that. But she followed up shortly with an email:
"Thank you. I'll try to get over to see my lawyer this afternoon, but I feel like a juggler with too many balls in the air. Thanks again for all your help."
This stuff about not being a 'little boy' is hard work.
I think that's an awesome post Nic.
I too believe that there is nothing to be gained by putting on false aires for our ex.
The nicest thing is when you reach the point where you realize you are not doing that any more, and your not even trying to not do it.
I think that's when you know you've finally let go of the hold they always had on you.
And it feels good.
Blessings,
Bill
Thanks Bill.
Forgot to email you at Christmas. Hope Deb is well and your family too.
Good advice. Slowly I am coming to put all this into focus. I have been solid since I let go of the anger a few months back and I like it.
Work is going better and I like the "new" interaction with W. I think she wants to reach out but she "needs" the D. And I accept that. Last few interactions have been good - no false aires on my part as you call them. I just let her interact.
She is scared and uncertain. All I can do is to support her unconditionally. And I am.
But in my thoughts of the future she has faded into a shadow. Now I am thinking of me, my goals, my life ... and maybe a new love.
I once talked about being on top of the mountain. I will not say it this time, b/c in the past I always fell off.
I will not say it - instead I will live it. A little more each day.
Strength and Honor.
Strong post Jeff.
Both you and our friend FIB are sounding very strong. It's great to hear you there.
Moving forward in confidence with the peace inside that comes from KNOWING you are strong and capable of anything is a sure fire way to know that what lies ahead will be great. Regardless of what it is.
Blessings,
Bill
I will not say it - instead I will live it. A little more each day.
thanks sugar, feel better knowing you are looking out.
I keep up with you everyday HUGS
and you are living it everyday.
Jeff,
You sound really good. It is so nice to be able to look at your future and not see your ex as a part of it -- and not miss that, either.
I'm looking forward to finding out what it's like to really be loved in a healthy R - wouldn't that be a change, lolol!
N
Well, today was the day.
Went to lawyer and signed all the required forms:
The Settlement Agreement and Visitation Schedule.
The Qualified Child Support Order.
The Financial Disclosure.
An Affidavit saying there is "incompatability of temperament", that we "cannot live together as husband and wife", we are not "mentally compatible", and that it is "in our benefit and in out best interest" that divorce be granted.
And last but not least: The Final Decree of Divorce.
So it is done. Lawyer walked it across the street to the courthouse. Good news: the affidavit means I don't have to appear in court.
Only thing missing was the blindfold, the cigarette, and the drumroll.
Or at least they could have thrown in a lap dancer!
I found an old calendar. On January 21, 2006 my wife told me she wanted to break up. But she held me tight that night and the next day told me that "don't worry, we will work this out".
We ML twice in February but about mid month (no valentine) she told me she was sure. I moved out in May, she asked for a divorce in June, we filed in September 2006.
Two years almost to the day. One month short of 13 years married.
I called W to tell her I signed (she already signed). Her response: "wonderful" and then she paused like she wanted me to agree.
I opened a bottle of 9-year old small batch bourbon whiskey tonight. I am fixing ME a special meal.
And it is SNOWING here!!!! Cold as a witches tit.
Time to reflect.
No regrets. In some ways these two years were wasted - a trial...
But the trial brought so many gifts. So many opportunities. So much insight. So much growth.
But so much left to do!
I will do fine. I just know it.
Thanks everyone for your support.
Strength and Honor.
You sound great, I hope I can do as well.
Jeff,
Some words from our friend FIB that meant a lot to me at this very same moment in MY sitch.....
In the midst of winter,
I found there was within me,
an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus
You have found your invincible summer.
No doubt about it.
Blessings,
Bill
I love that, Bill.
Yes, Jeff, it is done, and you handled it with love, compassion and dignity. That is something to be proud of, something you will always have.
As always, you have my support and my very best wishes,
Nicola
Sending you best wishes Jeff! We all are here for ya!
Thanks frank, Bill, nic, and CIAZ. And the others who sent wishes.
Had a good "D-night". Made ME a special meal. Had a few drinks to celebrate but I did not over indulge. I did get some spinish dip - my Ex and I liked spinish dip so it brought back many memories. But good ones - about the love we shared. I was not sad at all.
Plus some memories about what creative things you can do with food!
Overall a good evening.
-----------------
Backslid a little yesterday. My weekend with the kids and I had to take S10 to basketball practice. In walks xW. Says "hope you don't mind but S10 asked me to come". Then Ex plays with D6 while we watch the practice.
At least she was not with anyone.
All together, just like a "whole" family.
I said nothing but I did mind. I don't cut into 'her' time and she gets them more. But she does not give a sh*it about my feelings. It hurt.
She tried to engage in conversation: "where did you get those great jeans for D6?", "S10 is playing well, is he not?", "how is work going?", etc. I gave one word answers.
So my little boy in me got to come out and play a bit. But so what. It still hurts to deal with her when she is hurting me. Or to say it correctly: when I allow myself to be hurt by her. I will figure out how to be at ease in these sort of situations.
Maybe when I show up at practice arm-in-arm with someone else
Jeff,
It gets better my friend. It does get better.
I am one year post divorce this past December. At this point in time, I don't even get the shivers any more when my ex-wife calls, texts, or emails.
I saw her at Christmas time to exchange the boys and I can honestly say, there is nothing there anymore inside of me towards her. I recognize the face, can see flashes of the person she used to be, but that's about it.
You will get there too. And to be sure, should you reach the point of walking arm in arm with another, you will know what I mean.
Just like we tell the new people who come to this place in such pain...there are positives even in the midst of the chaos. As time passes we find ourselves more and more able to both SEE those positive and ENJOY them. I know that you know just what I'm talking about.
You know that I have found the ultimate truth in the midst of this mess - that it is possible you will find new love one day. And I can tell you that when that happens, it has an amazing capacity for bringing that final dose of inner healing that we all long for. God has blessed me with Deb, and he will bless you too one day.
Blessings,
Bill
Bill, Totally Agree!
Actually tonight I had my first dinner in my new place...one that I actually cooked. Sitting at the table alone brought back memories but realized that my XW is not ther person that I married. Not sure what it is all about.....if she will return....but certainly not the person that I married. I know people change, but not that much.
Jeff, glad to hear that you did something for yourself tonight. It does get better. It will be strange though now that you are legally single again, but it gets better!
(((Jeff)))
The D is final. She can't hurt you anymore. It is up to you to not allow it. Like Bill said, Life does get better and you will find someone when the time is right.
When you can do the things you both used to do and not have negative thoughts; have good memories and know that it doesn't hurt when you think about it, you know you are on your way.
It is time for you to focus on Jeff. It seems to me that your W needs your support, your advice and encouragement. While that is great and you should treat her with unconditional love, it is time she made her own decisions without you. She got what she wanted but somehow I don't think she knows what it truly entails yet.
In my eyes, she is concerned that you are going to move on and by contacting you, she keeps you at bay.
You have survived. You have reached the top of the mountain. Check the view and stay awhile. Can you see what is ahead of you? Dream it and do it.
Hugs,
ISLH
Hi Jeff :
Sorry to hear this news......
On some level this must be a sort of a relief. Sometimes to move on we need these chapter ending events as way of knowing what we must do.
My heart goes out to you.
Keep doing good things for yourself.
Echotango.
So you are available?
Um I mean, divorced.
Lovey, you sound good. I am sorry it had to happen, but it is a blessing in disguise for you lovey.
God bless.
Lissett
Hi ISLH. Thanks.
The D is final. She can't hurt you anymore.
After your situation I am not so sure. I am still not looking forward to meeting the OM. No, I still have no proof but just that feeling.
Echo!! Long time my friend. You must be close or D'ed yourself by now but Canada is as slow as Alabama here. Hope all is well with you - have a great 2008!
Lissie -
No. I don't "feel" single yet and I am not venturing out into the water just yet. I will be fixing up my house over the next few months so that will be my "excuse" not to venture out. But I need to get past that fear one day.
Slow for now. I need to feel divorced.
-------------
Update: xW closed on her house yesterday and moves tomorrow. She is in a big hurry all of a sudden. Could not blast her out of the house before. Guess it is the promise of a great and wonderful new life without Mr. Lowlife (me).
She asked to keep the kids Thursday so they can "help" move. I think she needs the support. I said yes.
I still have a problem figuring out my boundaries. Thursday is my day with the kids but I felt the bad guy if I did not let them stay with her. A favorite reference book of mine says that a personal boundary is soild when you are used to hearing and saying 'NO'. So I still have some growth to do.
Anyway I am happy with my decision to let the kids stay with her. One day will not kill me and I don't need the negative energy of feeling that I made a decision out of spite.
Guess I need to find a female who is good with tools! LOL.
I don't stop here often -- I guess I'm not really done either but there isn't anything I can do to change the D. That's what XH wanted and in this state the spouse has no choice.
However, I just stopped to let you know there are girls/women out there with power tools that like to use them.
Supposedly Home Depot is a great place to meet guys but I sure haven't met any. I did just add a mitre saw to my collection and I'm remodeling the only hovel I could afford to buy on one-fifth the income with 50% of the bills.
So, go play at Home Depot and perhaps you'll find a lady to help you with that remodeling. If Alabama wasn't so far away, I'd volunteer. I couldn't charge anyone since I'm slower than a 7-year itch but it's hard to get 'er done in the evenings after work.
Had to laugh. My mlc-waw loved to do projects - tearing up bathrooms, running electrical, laying flooring - yes, impressive stuff. HGTV was one of her favorite channels. I was not good with tools, but was a capable helper and a much better painter.
In addition to her impersonation of Bob Villa, she was/is a gourmet cook (I did the dishes).
Don't tempt me Glenda. I LOVE snow - I would love Alaska (been there - that is GOD's country but He lives in Alabama too).
JMC - I am a good cook too, and I did the dishes.
Thanks.
I guess xW crossed my boundary today. I went out to the bookstore tonight and she called my cell. I did not pick up in time but it was her, she leaves a message: for her new house she is trying to get her dryer to work. Her dad is there to help but she needs to change the 240-volt plug from three wire to four. She calls needs my help (again).
Boundary time: I did not call back. I am not her husband any longer. Hire an electrical guy is my thinking.
But I did know the answer and it was a simple answer. I felt a boundary was needed but I do not want to feel like a spiteful little boy.
Did I do right?
I think you did just right.
I give her a lot of credit (or she's pretty ballsy) for calling you to ask about her problem. Has she swallowed enough of her pride that she will ask for your help now? or is she just trying to save a buck?
Well, Jeff, if you decide adding twizzle sticks to a snow cone for R&R sounds good -- let me know. We've had about 8 inches of snow in the last 24 hours here in Anchorage. My "town" home is mostly floorless, needs paint, needs new kitchen cabinets, mold remediation in the kitchen, etc., none of which was on the disclosure. I haven't even finished unpacking as I really don't intend to stay once this place is remediated and remodeled.
BUT I did get the cabin, two old snowmachines, and I bought a trailer. I enjoy going to the cabin but it isn't on the road so I haven't gone by myself in the winter -- yet. Well, I actually never go alone -- I have two German Shepherds but they won't dig me out when I get stuck! Oh, yeah I can trailer (well reverse not so hot but I never pulled a trailer until a couple of years ago) and the cabin is RUSTIC - no inside plumbing and no running water.
Hey WCW...I keep checking but haven't found anything new from you lately in Hopefulness -- so I wandered off and started giving this poor gentleman from Alabama a hard time.
Hey Glenda, you were doing great until you mentioned dogs. Jeff doesn't like dogs. I know I know, what guy doesn't like dogs!!!!
Learn to back that trailer, I think it's as important as going forward - and you don't want to be part of the stereotype of women who can't back up! or....maybe you do, and when you get jackknifed some hunkoman can come rescue you. You lucky dawg!! I knew I shouldn't be so capable!
I heard on the news that we're colder than Moscow and Alaska and have more snow too!
Not so good for me at this point, Glenda. H reverted to his staying gone all evening, just coming home to sleep. I can't and won't go back to that again, I asked if he would tell me where he was a few evenings, he said he would not tell me, I told him to make his list to divide stuff up and let's get it done. H will ignore that unless I push, there's another cheeseless tunnel. Sorry for the hijack Jeff, I've done well with that today!
Boundary time: I did not call back. I am not her husband any longer. Hire an electrical guy is my thinking.
But I did know the answer and it was a simple answer. I felt a boundary was needed but I do not want to feel like a spiteful little boy.
A spiteful little boy? You are not her husband any longer, but, more to the point, she is not your friend right now.
Here is the deal: Unless it's something that affects your kids directly, you have a CHOICE as to whether or not to extend yourself to her when she 'needs something'.
If you don't feel like it, then don't do it. If you DO feel like it, then do it.
Think "the annoying friend who always calls you for something". Sometimes you help them, other times you say to yourself "bleah, I don't feel like it".
Now, if you told her "drop dead! I wouldn't help you if my life depended on it!" Well, that would be the hurt little boy.
Instead, you are making choices about who you will extend your help to, and when you will do it.
Nothing more, nothing less. This is your life now. These are the choices she made and the consequences. Let her feel them or you will be robbing her of her life lesson. You wouldn't want to do that now, would you?
I give her a lot of credit (or she's pretty ballsy) for calling you to ask about her problem. Has she swallowed enough of her pride that she will ask for your help now? or is she just trying to save a buck?
No, her real father could not figure it out so she calls daddy #2. I slept on it and I don't feel guilty about not calling back. I was at the bookstore having fun (found an interesting Italian cookbook) and when I got home I just wanted to unwind - not solve her electrical problems.
She is like so many of the other walk-aways here. They seem to NEED to be "friends" so they don't have to face facts that their choices hurt another person - a person they once loved, or at least said they did. I was less than a perfect husband but no way did I "earn" the last two years. If we become "friends" she will even believe that this was a "joint" decision.
She hurt me and she quit rather than work on the M or work on her or help me through some of my problems. I have to stop being in denial about that and stop justifying her actions. She is not the sweet girl I married.
My "town" home is mostly floorless, needs paint, needs new kitchen cabinets, mold remediation in the kitchen, etc.
Glenda, did you move into my house? That work, and more lies ahead for me. She let the place go, and I did too before I moved out. I thought about buying new but that would have hurt money wise. Besides, Norm on the New Yankee Workshop (public TV) is building a kitchen this year.
Plus the work will fill my time and keep me from running away to Alaska or such.
Hi Jeff
I think you were right too. You didn't say no to get at her, so no you're not being a winey kid.
Like I've told Swashy before, who is getting similar from his XW, for the kids you are there 100%, but for her, no.
And this staying friends thing - in the news you read of couples who have stayed friends after a D, but the reason they make the news is because this is rare. During my crisis my H stated that he saw a future where we'd be D'd, maybe him with a new g/f and me with a b/f, but we'd still be friends. I stated that would not happen. Yes if we had D'd I would respect his decision, but that didn't mean I had to like it.
Your W wanted her independence, and that comes at a price. She fought you for something she could have had all the time. You were not holding her back, she did that all by herself. I still feel sorry for her. No real growing going on there, but for you loads. You are the luckier person in this.
(sorry, bit rambling, hope this makes sense. In short Jeff - you rock!)
Hi Jeff, Catching up with your thread for the first time in quite a while... so sorry you're at this point. I think you really nailed it when you said:
She is like so many of the other walk-aways here. They seem to NEED to be "friends" so they don't have to face facts that their choices hurt another person - a person they once loved, or at least said they did. I was less than a perfect husband but no way did I "earn" the last two years. If we become "friends" she will even believe that this was a "joint" decision.
There's a lot of guilt in her right now - and, sucks to say it, even now there is probably still a lot of self-doubt. Sure, she'll tell herself that she made the right decision, that she was 100% sure, and she'll say the same thing to you. But I doubt that in any sitch, regardless of whether it ends here or in Piecing, things are so black and white. There's always some tiny niggling doubt,
Did I do the right thing? That doesn't mean it's going to change - just that it ain't so simple as we
all would like to believe sometimes.
One other bit I wanted to comment upon:
... a person they once loved, or at least said they did.
I think she did love you, Jeff. Maybe I'm hopelessly romantic or deluded, but I don't buy into the history rewriting that the WAS's do. Sure, things change, and people change, but that doesn't eliminate the truth of what was there once. And take heart from that - you were truly loved, once. And that proves to me, it can happen again.
Strength and honor, Jeff. You are a terrific, kind, insightful guy. Things will start looking up for you again, I have no doubt of it!
Besides, Norm on the New Yankee Workshop (public TV) is building a kitchen this year.
Dang -- that would be cool to do. My son keeps reminding me that I just need to make the place liveable if I'm not staying. Don't put in a lot of expensive things just because I like them. The next purchaser may not. So true.
And, I did do that with the bigger bedroom. It is painted a light blue color with mauve (pinkish-lilac in this case as I guess there are many variations) sponge painted over it. After I put in new plywood so I had a flat surface, I put in madiere (not sure of spelling) carpet which is a variegated light and dark mauve. I think it looks beautiful but the next person might hate it -- so I'm adding color but more on the light side for the rest of it.
WCW -- did you take the trip with the airline miles ticket? I think we discussed that before. I'd give you what few pointers I know about snowmachining and you can give me pointers on backing up. I know the theory but it doesn't seem to work like that for me -- obviously operator error.
Just like we tell the new people who come to this place in such pain...there are positives even in the midst of the chaos. As time passes we find ourselves more and more able to both SEE those positive and ENJOY them. I know that you know just what I'm talking about.
You know that I have found the ultimate truth in the midst of this mess - that it is possible you will find new love one day. And I can tell you that when that happens, it has an amazing capacity for bringing that final dose of inner healing that we all long for. God has blessed me with Deb, and he will bless you too one day.
Blessings,
Bill
Bill,
That is so very true. When I came here, I wanted more than anything to make it work with my former W. I thought she was a caring, committed, loyal and loving Christian woman who would not hurt our marriage or me for anything. I learned she was none of these.
Fast forward to today. God has blessed me beyond my wildest dreams. I am married to a beautiful Christian woman who will not let a day go by without telling how blessed she is to be married to me. She frequently tells me how glad she is my former W walked away. When we allow God to bless us.... He blesses us so abundantly!
Go with God,
RMG
I hate when threads lockup and you get lost. Sorry Jeff...trying to catch up here. FIB
Hey Jeff,
I agree with the others, you owe your XW nothing. If she calls for help and you happen to answer, you can tell her what she needs to do to fix it but you do not need to do it. If it involves the kids, then you should be there for them, not her. Help her only if you want to without any expectations. Seems to me her being so nice to you lately is self-serving.
She is like so many of the other walk-aways here. They seem to NEED to be "friends" so they don't have to face facts that their choices hurt another person - a person they once loved, or at least said they did.
They either want to be your friend or do everything they can to avoid seeing you, talking to you or even emailing you like in my case, hoping that I will disappear and he'll never have to face me.
Renovating/decorating keeps you busy and is very gratifying. And, since you bought yourself a new cookbook, treat yourself and any handy helper to a great meal.
You sound good,
ISLH
RMG
Big Tuna here....so happy to hear how things have turned out for you.....i hope someday to report similar results.....im still torn between hanging on for the xw ephippany and moving on....
take care BT
RMG
Big Tuna here....so happy to hear how things have turned out for you.....i hope someday to report similar results.....im still torn between hanging on for the xw ephippany and moving on....
take care BT
BT,
It is great to hear from you! I am going to start a thread giving all the details some day soon. God has blessed me so much!
I had similar feelings until I met my new W. Looking back, I am able to see my WAW as she really is. She is not the type of woman any good man should ever be married to. She is TOTALLY in love... with herself! Her true character and beliefs were exposed during this time. As my friend Teresa said, “Rich, she does not deserve a man like you.”
The funny thing is my exW believed the grass is greener.... Well, it REALLY is.... During all of this, I met many great women... Many of whom said, "What is your exW thinking? Most woman are looking for a man like you. They are not running away."
You really need to look at things lucidly and pray for guidance. Is this the type of woman you want to married to? If you accept your wife's behavior, what type of example are you setting for your children?
You will be in my prayers.
Take Care,
RMG
Thanks for the responses guys. They mean a lot.
I have been doing okay. PMA is high. Ex moved out of the house and into her new dream house. I went to my house (need to keep saying that instead of "our" house) and it looked like a bomb hit it, as most houses do after a move. It was sad to walk through the empty rooms full of good memories. Sort of a 'tear in my eye' time.
She did leave several pieces of furniture. I was suprised. I called her and asked why. At first she came on like she was doing me a favor but then she admitted her dream house was too small for those pieces.
My house was in poor shape overall, not just from the move. She did nothing to it in two years plus it is just over 20 years old so it needs a new kitchen and the baths need repair. Needs paint throughout, new carpet and the wood floors need refinishing. There are some minor roof leaks and the outside trim is rotten in places.
I have a lot of work ahead. I need to do it myself mostly b/c I could not afford to pay for it to get done. I love that kind of work but who has the time given a full time job and the kids every other weekend?
And that great sex life
I will work it out.
Speaking of the kids, Ex emails me yesterday and said this weekend is sign up for baseball. "With your concurrence, I would like to sign them both up"
That did press a button: gave me little warning and of course she was not asking me really. She had apparently already discussed this with the kids, a no-no in co-parenting since parents should discuss first BEFORE talking to the kids. That way, one does not come across as being the bad guy if there is a no-vote.
S10 played ball the past few years but is not really in to it. It is a social event rather than a passion for the game. I doubt he even knows the score after the game. There for a good time. He did not want to play last year but his mom talked him into it and I went along. D6 never showed any interest but this year Ex says she wants to play too.
So I discuss with Ex and voice my concerns. Baseball is not quality one-on-one time for me and the kids. I don't see them that much and an intensive sport schedule erodes what time I get: the one or two 2-hour practices per week plus the one to two 2-hour games per week (at least one each weekend). For each child. I also told her that I needed time to fix my house, move, etc and that it would be hard to juggle the schedule this year. And the kids want to help me fix the house.
Such a schedule is not so bad if you are M but for a single parent it is difficult. I know some single parents who spend all day at the ball field every weekend.
Of course she jumps in and says she will help with the schedule. In other words, she would be glad to spend more time with the kids - my time.
I began to feel guilty b/c I would be knocking the kids out of sports this spring plus she already discussed this with them. Ex is a real "soccer mom". The kids are her whole life. That was a big problem with our M. So if I said no it would strain our recent friendly interactions as well. I told her I would get back to her.
Soon later, she pressed for an answer so I told her I thought it best we pass on baseball this year.
Her email response: "Best for whom? I beg you to put the children first."
WTF ?????????????
I almost wrote her back saying if she "put the children first" she would not have kicked their father to the curb without trying even one step to reconcile. I felt like telling her if she had put "us" first, even a few times, we would still be together. And since when is spending quality one-on-one time not putting the children first?
But I did not. I laughed it off.
But my kids got hurt. Maybe I was wrong and should have agreed. I don't know. But I do know I cannot live my life through my kids and I must make a home for them and a new life for me. I also know that I just cannot agree with her each and every time. As selfish as it sounds I also need to consider me here. I cannot be a good father if I am not healthy and if all I do is "give" and neglect me, I cannot be healthy.
Am I wrong? Was this setting a healthy boundary or did I just react to Ex pressing my buttons and hurt my kids in the process?
Divorce sucks, especially on the kids.
I also know that I just cannot agree with her each and every time. As selfish as it sounds I also need to consider me here. I cannot be a good father if I am not healthy and if all I do is "give" and neglect me, I cannot be healthy.
Am I wrong? Was this setting a healthy boundary or did I just react to Ex pressing my buttons and hurt my kids in the process?
What does your logical mind say? You took time to think about it and came up with a response that fit the REALITY you are living in.
It seems to me that you made a decision based on good facts. Your kids are not 'into it'. It's likely their MOM is 'into it' and coaxed them into doing it. I think SHE needs these events to feel like she is being a good mom.
If they were TRULY into it, and hurt, they would be begging you to change your mind now don't you think?
I know my kids do not take 'no' for an answer without a fight if they really want something.
QUALITY TIME with DAD outweighs all other things. For BOTH dad and the kids.
I'm only seeing love here. Not 'little boy' spitefulness or anger.
Her email response: "Best for whom? I beg you to put the children first."
WTF ?????????????
I almost wrote her back saying if she "put the children first" she would not have kicked their father to the curb without trying even one step to reconcile. I felt like telling her if she had put "us" first, even a few times, we would still be together. And since when is spending quality one-on-one time not putting the children first?
But I did not. I laughed it off.
Wow, Jeff, I would have a very hard not responding like you wanted to. It is amazing how they justify it to themselves that the kids will adjust fine with a divorce. In fact, it is because of the kids that I am DBing so hard.
Sorry the house is a wreck but the good side is you have the smarts and resources to make it your home again however you want it to be. I have a feeling you didn't express near the emotion in your post as you felt walking thru that house again.
You are right that xw was wrong to talk to you last about baseball. Whether she was wrong or not, IMO it boils down to what do the kids want to do, play or no? If they really do, then single dad Jeff somehow turns that into his quality time with them. Remember that it's not just your W cutting into your time, it cuts into her time too and then you see the kids each weekend and when there is ball to play.
What is your quality time with the kids? what do you do on your weekends with them?
Oh, and more snow today, again.
Sorry the house is a wreck but the good side is you have the smarts and resources to make it your home again however you want it to be. I have a feeling you didn't express near the emotion in your post as you felt walking thru that house again.
I agree! Sounds like you're capable of a little painting, etc. - I'll bet there are some rooms in the house that were decorated to reflect W's preferences and personality, not yours. Make it a goal to recreate the house in a way that makes YOU happy.
Thanks. I felt better after the smoke cleared. You were right frank - healthy boundaries are a good thing.
Rob - Good advice - I intent to GUT the place
LeighS - thanks for stopping by. It took me two years to learn what NOT to do.
WCW - sorry the Giants won but what a game! My first Super Bowl in many years. I shared it with S10 who went for New England. I really don't care who even played but I told my son I would go with the underdog (the Giants). He asked what an underdog was and I told him.
I recall when I was 10 I asked my Godfather what an Underdog was too. He always went with the underdog.
So we shared a life lesson. All xW walk away and divorce crap could not prevent me from having that moment with my son. Priceless.
Great weekend: went to lunch and shopping Sat and Super Bowl Sunday. Saw my mom today as well - played bingo (remember she is 90 so bingo is a main thing). Picked up paint swatches for my house at some stores. Blue for S10 and light purple for D6. Made hot wings for the game but son said not hot enough. We studied for his test and shared life. D6 was not all that interested in the game but she watched too.
Got several emails from Ex. No mention of the baseball thing. I guess she backed off as she normally does when she crosses the line. The emails required no action - they were status reports of her new house and clearing out of my house. She did remind me of S10's test, like I did not know - I let that slide.
So, great weekend and I feel better overall. She will continue to press my button but the button will only cause a reaction if I let it.
I am a man of Strength and Honor. Period. I have no room for buttons or holes in my boundaries. I will try my best to remember that.
I am a man of Strength and Honor. Period. I have no room for buttons or holes in my boundaries. I will try my best to remember that.
It is a pleaseure to read your thread lovey.
Excellent.
Have a great week.
Jeff...although you don't need this, I want to requote it from your thread FOR ME..if I may hijack your thread for a moment:
I had similar feelings until I met my new W. Looking back, I am able to see my WAW as she really is. She is not the type of woman any good man should ever be married to. She is TOTALLY in love... with herself! Her true character and beliefs were exposed during this time. As my friend Teresa said, "Rich, she does not deserve a man like you."
The funny thing is my exW believed the grass is greener.... Well, it REALLY is.... During all of this, I met many great women... Many of whom said, "What is your exW thinking? Most woman are looking for a man like you. They are not running away."
You really need to look at things lucidly and pray for guidance. Is this the type of woman you want to married to? If you accept your wife's behavior, what type of example are you setting for your children?
PS...see my post on frank_d's thread. Stick with him Jeff. That's the power of this place at times. I regret that I don't have you on my street as a neighbor. You're a 'BetterMan'. Give frank_d the benefit of the doubt. FIB
PS.
Strength and honor.
Jeff...although you don't need this, I want to requote it from your thread FOR ME..if I may hijack your thread for a moment:
I had similar feelings until I met my new W. Looking back, I am able to see my WAW as she really is. She is not the type of woman any good man should ever be married to. She is TOTALLY in love... with herself! Her true character and beliefs were exposed during this time. As my friend Teresa said, "Rich, she does not deserve a man like you."
The funny thing is my exW believed the grass is greener.... Well, it REALLY is.... During all of this, I met many great women... Many of whom said, "What is your exW thinking? Most woman are looking for a man like you. They are not running away."
You really need to look at things lucidly and pray for guidance. Is this the type of woman you want to married to? If you accept your wife's behavior, what type of example are you setting for your children?
FIB,
I think you always need to keep things in clear perspective.
In my case, I was far from the perfect H. However, I did nothing which would even approach Biblical grounds for D. I loved my exW beyond words. Whether or not she wanted to believe it, she was the love of my life. I had grown to love her so much over the nearly 15 years we knew each other.
Yet, when the rubber met the road, she took off running... She was more interested in looker for greener grass... If she would have really been a Christian woman of character, she would have done anything to save our M... I was so willing to put in whatever work needed to be done.
The facts are the facts. Whether we choose to see them or live in denial.... My exW simply was not a good woman......
I hope you are able to step back and look at your sitch objectively....
Go with God,
RMG
In my case, I was far from the perfect H. However, I did nothing which would even approach Biblical grounds for D. I loved my exW beyond words. Whether or not she wanted to believe it, she was the love of my life. I had grown to love her so much over the nearly 15 years we knew each other.
Yet, when the rubber met the road, she took off running... She was more interested in looker for greener grass... If she would have really been a Christian woman of character, she would have done anything to save our M... I was so willing to put in whatever work needed to be done.
The facts are the facts. Whether we choose to see them or live in denial.... My exW simply was not a good woman......
I could have written this exact post. Thank you so much RMG. You made me feel many things.
It is still so hard to say my Ex was not good. But not accepting it does not make the truth untrue.
Thanks again.
In my case, I was far from the perfect H. However, I did nothing which would even approach Biblical grounds for D. I loved my exW beyond words. Whether or not she wanted to believe it, she was the love of my life. I had grown to love her so much over the nearly 15 years we knew each other.
Yet, when the rubber met the road, she took off running... She was more interested in looking for greener grass... If she would have really been a Christian woman of character, she would have done anything to save our M... I was so willing to put in whatever work needed to be done.
The facts are the facts. Whether we choose to see them or live in denial.... My exW simply was not a good woman......
I could have written this exact post. Thank you so much RMG. You made me feel many things.
It is still so hard to say my Ex was not good. But not accepting it does not make the truth untrue.
Thanks again.
Jeff,
You are so very welcome.
It was hard to admit for me as well. I had loved her so very much. I saw so many positive things. Yet, what I so painfully learned was the woman I thought I knew and loved for 15 years was NOT the woman she actually was......
Take Care,
RMG
Hey guys, count me in on all of this as well. It seems as those all of our sitchs and Ws are interchangable. It still amazes me how many of these stories are exact carbon copies of others.
I had loved her so very much. I saw so many positive things. Yet, what I so painfully learned was the woman I thought I knew and loved for 15 years was NOT the woman she actually was......
I did say during my separation that xW was a good woman deep down but that she was no longer right for me. But as time goes on I realize that I was accepting to much of the blame. Now I am starting to feel that deep down she was in fact not the woman I thought she was. I need to stop apologizing for her and take her off that pedestal I had her on.
That is not meant to be angry, it is just realizing that the blame is shared and that she did in fact do nothing to save the M when we could have saved it.
I had loved her so very much. I saw so many positive things. Yet, what I so painfully learned was the woman I thought I knew and loved for 15 years was NOT the woman she actually was......
I did say during my separation that xW was a good woman deep down but that she was no longer right for me. But as time goes on I realize that I was accepting to much of the blame. Now I am starting to feel that deep down she was in fact not the woman I thought she was. I need to stop apologizing for her and take her off that pedestal I had her on.
That is not meant to be angry, it is just realizing that the blame is shared and that she did in fact do nothing to save the M when we could have saved it.
Jeff,
I am right there with you. Step back..... Look at my old sitch....
Knew each other for 15 years.....
Married for over 12 years.....
I NEVER had any EAs/PAs....
She never came out and told me we had ANY problems let alone bad ones....
She never asked me to go to counseling....
She finally tells me there are problems and I immediately take her to counseling....
She goes twice to counseling and really only says I want out of M....
She files for D....
Looking at that, in my opinion, she should have clearly let me know there were problems and exactly what they were... If we could not work it out, she should have insisted we go to counseling..... If that did not work after months, that should be the first time you even remotely consider ending the marriage....
Does that make her a bad person? I believe it does. She walked away from a commitment she make to God and me. She also made damn sure she was as mean, nasty and hurtful to me as she walked out the door. I chose to take the higher road and ignore her. If I were gutless as she was, I at least would have had the decency to just walk away instead of attempting to tear the other person down.........
I think once you make a commitment you should stick to it.....
Take Care,
RMG
Were we married to the same woman? I too knew her for 15 years (dated - I knew her even longer b/c we worked for the same program) and we were married 12 when we divorced. I too NEVER had a EA/PA or abuse. She never mentioned MC and would not go when I recommended it after the bomb. I do have to admit that we discussed some issues but those issues were not grounds for D by any stretch and could have been worked.
She just wanted out. She quit.
I often wondered how she could sit in church week after week. One of her classic responses: she prayed on it and God said it was okay.
Thanks again for this exchange. We need to get our minds around this if were are to heal.
Were we married to the same woman? I too knew her for 15 years (dated - I knew her even longer b/c we worked for the same program) and we were married 12 when we divorced. I too NEVER had a EA/PA or abuse. She never mentioned MC and would not go when I recommended it after the bomb. I do have to admit that we discussed some issues but those issues were not grounds for D by any stretch and could have been worked.
She just wanted out. She quit.
I often wondered how she could sit in church week after week. One of her classic responses: she prayed on it and God said it was okay.
Thanks again for this exchange. We need to get our minds around this if were are to heal.
Jeff223,
The WAW and I had the following exchanges:
RMG: What would your parents say if they were standing here?
WAW: I could CARE less! I am going to do what I WANT to do!
RMG's Note - Both were devout Bible believing Christians who passed away while we were married... Although he never had a church, her father was actually an ordained minister later in life....
RMG: What happened to your Christian beliefs?
WAW: God will just have to deal with me!
As for your wife saying:
she prayed on it and God said it was okay.
Is she a Christian? Does she know what the Bible reads about divorce? Can I divorce my wife if I just feel like it?
Here is the tricky question. I would love to ask the WAWs flat out.... We are going to look into the future..... Fifteen years from now, you are remarried... You have been happily married for twelve years.... One day, your husband comes home and tells you it is over.... He files for divorce.... Would you be angry or upset? Would you feel he has a right to do it? According to WAW's rules, he can do whatever he wants and leave whenever he wants.... If the hot new secretary looks interesting.... He can blaze off.....
I challenged my wacky WAW to pick ANY Bible believing church - Assembly of God, Baptist, Evangelical Free or whatever and we we go talk to the pastor to see if he thought she had a right to walk away... She never had the balls... She KNEW she would not find anyone who would agree with her...
Take Care,
RMG
We need to get our minds around this if were are to heal.
Jeff223,
The thing I have to come to grips with is my WAW made her decision.... Showed her true colors....
The comforting thing is God has provided a new life for me with a woman who has a heart of gold and has been the one left twice before... She gets it..... My new wife knows how to communicate her wants and needs.... I sleep well at night with my new wife... I have a clear conscience knowing I did all I could with the WAW sitch...
My WAW lives in a box of a Brady Bunch 70's house near her work... In a neighborhood surrounded by things she said hated like RV trailers parked in the driveways... Most of the time, I know her pride is alive and well telling her she did the right thing.....
Yet, I would bet at times she is tormented by questions of what it could have been like........ What if she had stayed? Would our relationship improve that much? Did he really love me THAT much? What would the house have looked like if we had remodeled it as he did with his new wife? Could I really have been happy with him? Questions like those she will NEVER be able to put to rest......... I had to deal with intense pain. She will live with the regret.............
Take Care,
RMG
RMG...(hijacking Jeff)....
I just want to say that one thing needs commenting...the grass is greener thing. The difference, I believe, is that the person who is RUNNING is different from the LBS. The grass probably IS greener for the LBS since ..or should I say seems greener....after leaving the destructive M or being left behind.
RMG...I am thankful that you have posted here on Jeff's thread. Jeff and I talk frequently, and, like you, we believe that NO ONE should abandon a marriage at the outset. However, there comes a time when must move on. Like your posts above, I....we....tried so hard to save our M's...DB'd...etc. One just can't do this alone. I feel like I am in the minority here....having come to save my M and then being the filer. I swore I would never destroy my M....it's just that my W was much better at doing that.
frank_d said to me once 'you'll be OK'. Seems you already are. Blessings.
FIB
Lis,
Where is your thread?
David
I am also amazed how the MLC-WAW's say and do so many similar things. Although not divorced (for now I have decided to let her take it from here and file if she wants out), I can empathize with many of the comments on this thread. Thanks to everyone for posting.
RMG...(hijacking Jeff)....
I just want to say that one thing needs commenting...the grass is greener thing. The difference, I believe, is that the person who is RUNNING is different from the LBS. The grass probably IS greener for the LBS since ..or should I say seems greener....after leaving the destructive M or being left behind.
FIB
FIB,
For me, the grass was really greener. Looking back lucidly at what I had with WAW, what type of woman she was, how she treated my son, how she treated my family and a variety of other things life is so much better now.... I need to start my own thread on all of this some day....
RMG
Well, seems I was kicked off the board for a while.
Am I THAT BAD
Guess it was an IT problem or something - a quick note to the moderator seems to have solved the problem.
Been in a depression lately. Not the "pity party" depression but the "I don't give a crap" depression.
I guess it was going to Home Depot to look for paint and stuff for the house. I also hit several furniture stores. I did get some great ideas but I also saw family after family working together - "should we go with this blue paint or that one", "that bedroom set will go well in our house', etc.
Happy families out together building their lives together. That is what life really is all about - picking paint, not picking up women.
Where the hell was my family? Gone. Tossed to the curb with yesterday's trash.
I guess the other thing that has me blue is my house. Not just how much work is needed to fix it but how "empty" it is. I am really starting to feel the "empty". It is painful to go over there even to take measurements and such.
So I am just numb and sad. And my motivation to get started on the move is in the toilet.
This too shall pass. Now to roll up my sleeves. I have to move out of my appartment by 1 April - not much time. Need to at least get the bedrooms in shape. When I demolish the kitchen I will just do takeout more or use the microwave.
I found a great Italian deli that delivers.
I haven't even fired up the microwave, let alone the thing with the burners in 6 months.
things will get better.
take care
Yup, you're one bad dude alright!
I'm sorry for your feelings about your house. It should be a source of joy and happiness and maybe it will be again, but it's the journey you have to take to get there - well, it just sucks.
It is hard to go out and see the couples holding hands, picking out groceries together, stopping together to look at something, all together stuff. I thought I had gotten used to it but it's really been eating me up again.
If you need help the end of March I'll be in AL already with 4 other ladies and I'll have my big trailer along. We'll get you moved in no time! We'll need some of those fancy meals you cook, and apple pie!
[quote] [picking paint, not picking up women.
/quote]
I have this friend who has been single now for a while, and she told me that at Home Depot is where she gets picked up the most.
I guess she doesn't go down the paint aisle.
I join you in the walking wounded club. Couples get on my nerves. And............ I feel bad about it but , it is what it is.
And I went to pick out a Valentine;s card the other day, and this guy was picking out a card for his wife, and he took so much time doing it. (sigh)
So I guess this is all normal. This is what you told me, so I'm gonna believe ya.
And we will be ok right? I mean that is what i keep hearing.
Luv ya
I forgot about V-Day.
Guess I should be grateful for all the dollars I am saving on cards, dinner, flowers, candy, etc....
Pays for several cans of paint.
Of course I will be sleeping alone also, third year in a row. But I will have my kids Thursday.
I hope DonH is right - maybe next year will be different.
Just to chime in (possibly late)...
I could have written ALL the same things about my ex.
21 years of marriage, two wonderful boys, tons of trips and outings full of fun times, bumps in the road that we always made it thru, tight times financially that we weathered...
All along a commitment to NEVER divorce.
And then one day she decides that she didn't feel this way any more. Then there are men. Partying. A possible lesbian live-in. A "new life" with a guy that she had a crush on when she was 16, who turns out to be the one she should always have been with. What the heck...
She WAS a good woman.
But something was wrong inside.
And I added my share to our difficulties, but I also never wavered in my commitment to US.
So...
Que sera, sera...
And now?
Life is GOOD. And I am HAPPY. And the future is bright again.
Amazing the similarities.
Blessings,
Bill
Thanks for stopping by Bill. We never really will figure it all out. You can't make sense of something that is senseless in our worldview.
Still in a "I don't care" depression. Can't seem to think straight or get started.
But we got snow flurries this morning and it was a brisk 24 deg with a 14 deg wind chill. That, plus the first good night sleep I had in a while perked me up some.
But the funk continues as I ponder the larger questions in life:
Why does paint come in so many different colors?
Why does the color you pick on the little cardboard thingy look so different on the wall?
Why is carpet so warm on the feet but so hard to keep clean while the newer wood flooring is just the opposite? Why can I not have both?
Why is the furniture I like always in the wrong material, or the wrong color, or in the wrong style?
Questions to ponder. I start the house stuff next week. I have a few more stores to hit before I dive in.
Wish me luck.
Wow Jeff, powerful questions my friend.
Let me tell you that I will be joining you soon enough in these pursuits. Deb found out for sure yesterday that she will be keeping the house, so now the work can begin. We're talking wood flooring, roof work, carpeting, new walls, and plenty of painting.
Is it goofy that I'm looking forward to it?
Oh well.
Let me know if any of those answers come to you.
And thanks for the redirection on FIB's thread.
Blessings,
Bill
But we got snow flurries this morning and it was a brisk 24 deg with a 14 deg wind chill. That, plus the first good night sleep I had in a while perked me up some.
You got snow right there in your yard and you're still all boogered up? You got your wish for snow!
But the funk continues as I ponder the larger questions in life:
Why does paint come in so many different colors?
There's more than barn red? I thought the only choices were the size of the container.
Why does the color you pick on the little cardboard thingy look so different on the wall?
Barn red goes well on carboard thingys and cardboard walls.
Why is carpet so warm on the feet but so hard to keep clean while the newer wood flooring is just the opposite? Why can I not have both?
Go wood, they make slippers to keep your feet warm. Barn red wood and slippers.
Why is the furniture I like always in the wrong material, or the wrong color, or in the wrong style?
Barn red?
Thanks for stopping by and not saying anything dumb. But then do you ever?
It was not snow, it was flurries.
And I do like barn red
Interesting exchange with Ex today. I would rather not talk to her on V-day but she called twice so far.
The first call was at 7:20. She says that S10 did not have his spelling list and he had a test today. Could I read her the words from the master list? I told her I did not have the list. She said S10 said he left it with me. I said he did not. She gets all mad like it was my fault or something. I listened and said I would look again to make sure son did not leave it at my place. She hangs up.
S10 has a spelling test every Thursday so why does she suddenly discover the list was missing? You study for the test the night before, not the morning of. And oh BTW the kids should have been at school by 7:20 so they were running late as well.
Welcome to being a single parent Ex.
She calls me at work a few hours later and apologized for her abruptness. She said she scolded S10 about the spelling. I listened. We discussed some stuff she had not yet picked up from my house.
Then she proceeds to tell me about some problems, how her phone line was cut when some workers were installing a fence at her new house and other problems she was having.
She told me she had two trips coming up and asked if I would consider giving her some additional time with the kids. She sounded emotional. Our child visitation schedule does not provide for make up time for travel but I said I would work with her.
I mentioned picking up the kids tonight and she snapped "I KNOW it is YOUR night". Then she says she needs to get D6's meds to me since this is my weekend with the kids starting tonight. D6 had a throat infection earlier this week. She said she did not want to put the meds in D6's bookbag b/c D6 would be "embarassed" at school. I asked Ex to drop it by daycare where I pick them up but she said that she may have to run it over to my apartment tonight. She was emotional again.
Then she asked about my move and her voice started to quiver. I asked if she was ok, that she sounded stressed. She said she was. I said to take care of herself. I could tell from her voice she was tearing up and so she ended the call.
I should ask why is Ex is so stressed? Why does she need extra time with the kids? Why would D6 be embarassed? Why is she crying on the phone to her xH?
The H she wanted to get rid of. The new house that was going to make everything perfect. How the children would do fine with the D instead of being embarassed by it. How the visitation schedule would be fine all around.
Why is she crying? Tears of joy b/c she has the divorce she wanted so much? The divorce to make life sweet?
I know the answers. I wonder if she does.
You see Jeff, I read about your conversation with your ex today and honest to God, I actually felt a touch of sympathy for her. She had NO IDEA what she was pushing herself towards. It's the old "be careful what you ask for - you just might get it" deal.
Don't worry, I didn't get too carried away with the feeling sorry thing, just in case you were worried.
I don't hear from mine except to make arrangements for the boys, so I'll probably never know if she has moments like that. I'd like to think that they all have flashes of lucidity during which there is that brief moment where they wonder just what in the hell they have done, but who knows.
Single parenthood is tough. I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. I appreciate that it sounds like you're doing well enough to be agreeable with her when it comes to the kids. I know for me, I'm not interested in drama anymore when it comes to the ex. She's the boy's Mom and she deserves to see them and spend time with them. More importantly THEY deserve to have a Mom in their life, even if she did find it necessary to move two states away from them.
Sigh. We never signed up for this, did we Jeff? But you know what? When all is said and done, when the years have passed and our kids have grown and begun families of their own, we will have found a good and full life, one that we can really enjoy this time because of all we've learned along the way. And our kids will NEVER forget that in the midst of a period of great turmoil in their lives, they had ONE parent who was stable, consistent, and put THEIR needs before our own. We will take great satisfaction in those days my friend.
Blessings,
Bill
You see Jeff, I read about your conversation with your ex today and honest to God, I actually felt a touch of sympathy for her. She had NO IDEA what she was pushing herself towards. It's the old "be careful what you ask for - you just might get it" deal.
Don't worry, I didn't get too carried away with the feeling sorry thing, just in case you were worried.
Jeff,
It is very interesting... When I was going through the very hardest part of my D, I heard the song Home by Daugherty everywhere I went.... The following lines kept JUMPING out at me...
Be careful what you wish for cause you just might get it all... You just might get it all and then some you don't want...
This is very true for our WASs.... They get what THEY want and later realize that is NOT what they really want...
I personally think she is dealing with regret over her actions...
Go with God,
RMG
You see Jeff, I read about your conversation with your ex today and honest to God, I actually felt a touch of sympathy for her. She had NO IDEA what she was pushing herself towards. It's the old "be careful what you ask for - you just might get it" deal.
Don't worry, I didn't get too carried away with the feeling sorry thing, just in case you were worried.
Thanks Bill and RMG. I needed that response. I too was feeling sorry for her and I again started to blame myself. Got to stop that.
She made the bed here. Her model of D is that the H basically quits the family after the D. That is not going to happen - she must get used to it. She needs to accept that she will not have the kids 100%, that she will have to keep the house going by herself, etc. Yea, the move was stressful but WTF, I did it - it was her turn.
I am suprised that she is so stressed still. After all it has been a 20 month separation. But now it is final and she is in a strange house - that must contribute. She does not want to be alone right now I guess, thus her wanting the kids close.
She came over last night to deliver the meds for D6. She looked bad - worse than I can remember. She stayed almost a half hour. Little talk, she just kind of hung on the kids and did not want to leave. I was feeling rather happy after a good work day and getting the kids so I was upbeat. I tried to get her to talk but she was in a funk. Not angry or anything, just stressed and sad. She reluctantly left.
It is all interesting. A good friend from this BB has been D'ed for a year now and his WAW Ex still is mad at him and treats him badly. And my Ex still does not seem detached enough not to be emotional, stressed and sad.
These folks get what they want: the D complete with the gold seal. They should be so happy, should they not?
I am suprised that she is so stressed still. After all it has been a 20 month separation. But now it is final and she is in a strange house - that must contribute. She does not want to be alone right now I guess, thus her wanting the kids close.
Hey Jeff - it makes perfect sense to me! See, the notion that the stress will get all better after the divorce is based on a faulty premise - that the stress and unhappiness
originated from the marriage.
Sorry to break it to ya, WAS, that ain't the case - that unhappiness came from deep inside yourself, and you can run away from your spouse, but YOU are still right there.
These folks get what they want: the D complete with the gold seal. They should be so happy, should they not?
Jeff,
My new W and I are whipping the house into shape. My WAW ex left it in a terrible state. While cleaning out the basement, we packed some boxes and dropped them off on her porch. I took the care to put some family pictures and cards we exchanged in a plastic container. The exW sends the following:
DO NOT BRING ANYTHING OVER HERE THAT IS NOT MINE!!! This is ridiculous. If you don't want the stuff, give it to Goodwill. Give the tapes to Goodwill. It is different if it is something from or about my family. I also don't need all of the cards and whatnot that we gave to each other over the years. Burn them or something but don't drop them off here.
One would think she would be happy we packed the things up and dropped them off at her house. She showed no gratitude.
By the way, I think she wrote the entire e-mail just to write:
I also don't need all of the cards and whatnot that we gave to each other over the years. Burn them or something but don't drop them off here.
How dramatic! Why is SHE so upset? She got what she wanted...
Go with God,
RMG
Do you remeber that old quote from David Lee Roth? That his ideal woman was one who .. well "went at it" all night then turned into a pizza at 4am.
OK, he was joking. But to your XW, it sounds like she wishes you were someone she can call on as a handyman round her flat, take the kids ONLY when it's convenient for her and also be there to applaud her as she gets her independence.
DLR's quote was funny, he was joking. Your XW .. well she really is in lah lah land. You are the kids DAD and always will be. If she can't understand that then she's nuts. She wanted to have her independence, to stand on her own two feet. She could have had all of that with you. You would have been willing to try, to see if there was a way the two of you could be together and still fufil her need to be more independent. But she chose not to take that option. Oh dear. Jeff, IMHO it looks as if she's going to carry on acting the brat for some time. Thankfully you're man enough to deal with her tantrums. What is it you say? Strength and honour. For SURE
Jeff,
Over a week is too long between posts.
How did the decision making go?
What's up with you?
What's GREAT about your life these days?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Blessings,
Bill
Has been a while.
Bill - you back? Just whem we thought things were safe.
Me?
My life sucks. That about sums it up.
Well, not sure what the proper response is to your post. All I can think of is if life sucks then pucker up.
Oh, and maybe some hugs. (((jeff)))
Just an update in the Journal:
I got a call from FIB yesterday and he got on to me for being down. He actually played his bagpipes for me over the phone. Bagpipes over a cell phone sound like ... lets just say that I expected to see a cobra rise out of a basket.
I am still in my "I don't give a sh!t" depression. I have to get out of my apartment by the end of the month and I have not even started packing. Just don't care.
The house is a disaster. I have started working on it but progress is slow b/c I am slow to work it - no motivation to. Unexpected things turn up each day and that gets me down. After pulling up the carpet, I also had to pull up some subfloor in my bedroom b/c of damage. Much of the woodwork needs to be replaced. That is the bad thing about older houses. Things should go better when I move in - save the time going back and forth between house and apartment. But I do need some furniture and a fridge. The kitchen is shot but the stove still works.
It sucks b/c I am working this alone. I guess I see the ads in the mags where H and W are covered in paint and dust sharing the job and being happy together.
I really miss my old life and I miss my kids. My daughter got the flu recently - real flu, not a bad cold. And I was not there for her. To make matters worse, Ex calls me a few days later and wants to know if I think daughter is well enough to return to school. Like I was there? How could I answer that? WTF?
Ex continues to interact as if we were still married and I am on a business trip. She calls often wanting my opinion on things. I don't mind helping but sometimes I feel used.
Our child support payments got screwed up and I had to fix. But I emailed her and said that was it - she would have to take care of any future divorce related problems. I did my part - that chapter is closed.
Another interesting thing is that Ex called my mom and asked her to come see her new house. My mom went. Mom bragged on her house and of course that made me feel bad b/c of my old broken down house. But what was really interesting is my mom said Ex told her that Ex still loved me. Maybe my mom was just hearing what she wanted to hear or that Ex was trying to be "nice" but that is something I don't need to hear.
That is about it. Work during the day and work some on the house at night and weekends. Rest of the time just lay around. Not much else going on. Don't care.
I am very lonesome right now. Not a good place to be.
Hi Jeff,
Sorry to hear you are a bit down and feeling lonesome. Why don't you just sell up and go north.
I'm thinking of doing that myself, I don't have anything to sell up so it might be easier for me.
Gotta think of the children, though don't we.
Strength and Honour.
Paul
Jeff,
I think it's normal to go through a funk of sorts now that the divorce is final.
For some time you had to work hard each day to stay on top of your game as you DB'ed your way through the ending of your marriage. All along it was not what you wanted, and part of you was always hoping that maybe it wouldn't turn out the way it was looking like it would.
Now it's done.
Suddenly there aren't those compelling forces at work each day to address. Now your issues are what color paint to buy, and how much lumber can you afford to re-do how many rooms worth of trim?
Add to that the reality of being apart from your kids AND an ex-spouse who is interested in being friends right now. It's a tricky combo Jeff.
I don't see a problem with wallowing for a bit if that's what you need to do. Hope you don't do it through the bottom of a bottle - that won't help you adjust. And I hope you don't allow it to linger for too long.
Find someone to hang out with one evening. Go catch some of the NCAA games at a sports bar with a friend. Yeah, your give a damn's busted, I get that. I won't get fixed by sitting around each night lamenting about how unmotivated you are feeling.
As for your ex...
Can't tell if you're pissed at her, still loving her, or maybe some mad combination of the two.
From my perspective (knowing that I'm not privy to the whole picture - forgive my ignorance), what's wrong with being the man she is comfortable calling on? And what if she DID tell your Mom that she still loved you? Keeping the peace doesn't have to be cold and sterile, as long as you can get over the notion that you're being used.
Personally, I think it's interesting that you are still the one she thinks to call on.
Miss you around here friend.
Blessings,
Bill
Jeff, what were the reasons you wanted to keep your place and move back to it?
WCW and Paul -
I want to keep the place for several reasons. I built it 20 years ago before I was married and much was my design. I added to it twice - both my designs. I built a large workshop. I guess you can call it a pride factor (much like your place WCW).
The best thing is that I have over 5 acres of privacy but I am just outside the city limit; 15 minutes to work. To get acres so close to the city is impossible today (or VERY expensive) so I would have to move far away. For comparison, my Ex's house is on less than 1/2 acre surrounded by other houses and costs more than my house b/c it is new construction.
Also, I considered my kids. They have friends in the neighborhood and they feel comfortable in the house. The house is located in their school district so moving far away is not really an option.
So even though it will take fix up it is still cheaper for me than new construction; cheaper yet b/c I can do much of the work myself. I wish the house was laid out differently but it is a 1980's design, not 2000. I did consider a move, but decided that keeping the pig was the best thing to do.
Can't tell if you're pissed at her, still loving her, or maybe some mad combination of the two.
Neither can I. Your observation is spot on.
I knew all that Jeff.
I just wanted to hear you say it again and remind yourself of the good reasons. Now keep remembering!
It was a trick, I am practicing for April 1st!
I cannot imagine driving by my place and seeing someone elses horses in my pasture instead of mine. Especially not if it was a decision I was forced to make rather than wanting to make.
Did your W ever resent your place because it was your own before it was yours and hers? H will still toss that at me every now and then even though he assured me at the time it would not be a problem for him to move in with me.
I vote for the mad combination. Jeff and W both.
Everyday is just another fricken adventure isn't is Jeff? I am understanding more and more of it all of the time, although I'm not sure it really matters or makes anything different. For example, I can clearly see that I was in a pretty depressed state a year ago and before that. It is so clear to me now. It is also the place that you are clearly in. The problem is, I don't know what I could have done, if anything to make it different than it was. I went to a C, I got put on meds, what else was I to do? Yet, where I was then and where I am now are so completly different (and better) and I'm really sure that if I could see a year from now, it would be all that much better yet.
Forgive me since so many of these sitches seem to run together here, and I'm just not all that great with remembering who is who and which one is which. I say this because I don't really remember if you thought that an EA or PA was part of your sitch. I could just tell you with extreme confidence that there clearly is not an OM in the picture now - not with your wife's behavoir.
So what do you do? Well, my best suggestion is to just let it all happen and roll with it. If ExW calls to talk, great! If not, that's fine too. Just as long as what she says or does is not causing problems for you, just let it happen. Hold your ground, don't let her walk on you or even push with 1 pound more of pressure than you can take. But don't look for problems either way. If I am any indication, you will end up in a very good place. It's just going to take time to do it. It's almost like part of the rules for all of this. Evidently you have to put in some crap time in order to move to the next level.
I have no idea of that helps or every makes any sense. Hopefully it does. Most importantly, be sure to keep providing all of this to your friends on here. We don't want to let you slip through the cracks with any of this!
Don
Hey Boo,
I just wanted to pass by and give you some hugs, missed seeing you post.
Wishing you a wonderful weekend.
Lissett
Hey Jeff, just came over to check on you as I haven't seen or heard much from you lately.
You have the funk I see...hmmmmmmmmm do you think you deserve to be down some? With you in the past, it seems like you are very tough on yourself when you get down. Like you don't feel like you have the right to be upset and hurt and angry. Why is that?
All I am saying my friend is that we are human. We just seem to forget that when we have times like this. We have so little empathy for ourselves it is amazing. Instead of understanding where we are and going easy on ourselves, we condemn ourselves for feeling bad.
You have every right to be hurt, angry, lonely, etc... jeff, but you also have every right to feel those emotions without feeling like your life is shitt. Your life is still good, you still have your kids, you do still have a ex wife who does need your help to raise those kids, and you do still have a house that all be it is in slight disarray right now, is still very special to you.
Keep your chin up Jeff, your life is going to be good again, and you know it.
Ian
Jeff-I am new here, but with a similar sitch, only I have been married 30 years, and D not quite done yet. I think these women get in a rush to get their almighty D and then find out that in reality it is nothing what they expected, and as has been said-happiness comes from inside, not from others.
your x may well be rethinking what in the world she has done. Make sure you put on the best front you can and be positive. if you fell like helping on a particular day, fine. If not, then so be it. It is part of her consequence aqnd the sooner they face up to that, the sooner that things may improve. i think my wife will get her D, and 6 months down the road when she sees me with another gal things will finally come into focus of what she had and gave away. most will only realize this when it's too late. what a shame for all involved. It will get better. spring will come. Hang in there buddy!
i think my wife will get her D, and 6 months down the road when she sees me with another gal things will finally come into focus of what she had and gave away. most will only realize this when it's too late. what a shame for all involved. It will get better. spring will come. Hang in there buddy!
dbs,
It is true and heartbreaking.... If only these people had the sanity to step back and look at things..... The aspect that is really sobering is many of these people SHOULD be mature.... I know some would blame MLCs.... BUT, these people are choosing to act this way out of free will.... They COULD choose to seek C AND work on their M... They choose to violate their M and their vows......
I am sure my WAW had that WTF? moment when I told her via e-mail I was going to marry my GF........ Before our D, she said, "It is MY TURN to be happy......" I am CERTAIN she is now.....
No_More_Dodo
Jeff,
I miss you posting here on these forums. We've lost far too many voices of reason over the past couple months. Men who speak with that special combination of wisdom, empathy, compassion, and fire that always seems to speak to our souls are a valuable commodity. I hope your time away is giving you a chance to find your path and will ultimately bring you back here in some regular capacity.
If I had designed and built my own home as you have done, I would have a strong desire to keep that home as well. Hell, I feel the attachment to this place here, simply because it's the first home I ever owned. My boys grew up here. Their friends are here. So many of my memories, some bad but oh so many good, are here as well. Piece of crap right now or not, I understand the desire to make it right again.
I guess that's it Jeff. Just miss the opportunity to have dialogue with you. And hate the thought that you might be out there struggling and keeping it all to yourself. I hope you'll at least fire off an email if you need to hear from a friendly voice.
Blessings,
Bill
Jeff-I am new here, but with a similar sitch, only I have been married 30 years, and D not quite done yet. I think these women get in a rush to get their almighty D and then find out that in reality it is nothing what they expected, and as has been said-happiness comes from inside, not from others.
your x may well be rethinking what in the world she has done. Make sure you put on the best front you can and be positive. if you fell like helping on a particular day, fine. If not, then so be it. It is part of her consequence aqnd the sooner they face up to that, the sooner that things may improve. i think my wife will get her D, and 6 months down the road when she sees me with another gal things will finally come into focus of what she had and gave away. most will only realize this when it's too late. what a shame for all involved. It will get better. spring will come. Hang in there buddy!
Hey Jeff,
Thought I'd come to see how you're doing.
I'm sorry to hear that you're feeling down. Unfortuntely, the process can be long especially when we can't let go of our spouse. I agree that it seems that you are angry with your Ex and still love her. I am right with you when it comes to feelings about our Ex's; at least your W isn't living with someone else and had a baby.
From what I can see, there is no OM and yes, she still has feelings for you which is a good start. She would not be calling you if she didn't miss you, care for you and yes still love you. You need to show her what she is missing and what she could've had and maybe still have. Now pick yourself up, dream of how you want your house to look like and putting one foot in front of the other, fulfil your dream. Visualize your kids running in the yard, throwing a football, riding a bike, laying on a blanket at night looking at the stars. You can have it all but you have to dream it first.
I know you know all this and yes it is hard, I'm there right now where I feel it will never get better but I know I've had good days and there will be even better days. It's like Don said, we can't see our future but we can see how far we've come. For some, it takes longer but it will come.
I'm glad I took the time to post to you today. In posting to you, it is motivating me to continue to move forward.
Keep us posted on the renos and I'm sure you will make it your dream home once again.
Your friends are still following along because we care. Gee, you even got the privilege of having Frank play the bagpipes for you.
Hugs,
ISLH
Been a while so time for an additional journal entry. Once this thread locks, I will resume a thread I started in surviving. After that, who knows.
All moved. I finally got off my a$$ and packed things and moved. Had to get out by April 1st and I did. Everything fit into eight short bed Ford F150 pickup loads. Not much to show for a life. But that is not all true - my workshop and books were still at the house. The move was smooth but even eight loads is a lot since I was on the second floor at the apartment.
House is a mess and I am living out of boxes for now. I did get the floor repaired in my bedroom and put down new flooring. Went with laminate that really does look like hardwood. Easy to lay but somewhat time consuming. Got a new bedroom set. Nice. I also got a new matress - got talked into a rather expensive one but I don't know if I will like it. Something about it - almost supports too well. Guess I am just used to cheaper bedding.
I hope it grows on me and I also hope some future lady will like it too
The furniture is great, the floor is great, and so is the color I picked for the room. But all together I am a bit disappointed. But the accessories are not in yet so I will reserve judgement.
My utility room is next - new floor and paint. Need to get that done so I can get a washer/dryer in.
Ex had the kids for Spring Break so that allowed me to move without problem. Did not hear from Ex over the break so I thought that maybe she would leave me be. But after the break she did call a few times.
She is trying all so hard to be friends. Frankly folks, I want no part of it right now. I wish I had been paid money for each time I thought I had arrived at "forgiveness". I have backslid once again - anger has returned. Mostly anger at me but also for her destroying how she did.
So I flip-flop between anger and depression. I am glad the house needs the work b/c it allows me to focus on it istead of the past.
But these moods will pass.
Had the kids this past weekend. They thought it fun living out of boxes and the fact my fridge is not in the kitchen as the kitchen is trashed. It turned cold Sat and I started a fire in the woodstove. First fire in two years.
Priceless.
So on with the work.
Thanks all for posting and continuing to follow a rather dull story.
Strength and Honor.
Look at you being Tim the tool man taylor decorator NIIIIICE.
I hope it grows on me and I also hope some future lady will like it too
Good Greif MEN
A certain Georgia Peach says hiya.
HUGS
Hey Jeff
the house sounds like it is coming together. I had a down couple of days too but it was because of me and had nothing to do with the dumbtards that were in my life...only my own dumbtardedness!!!
it's good when it is just you being dumbtarded...which, I suppose sounds dumbtarded but it is true!!!
((Jeff)),
It sounds like you've got a great start on a nice, new place. And how fun for the kids to get to experience the goofy phases of renovation! You've accomplished more a week within move date than I have in 10 months; nice going.
.
She is trying all so hard to be friends. Frankly folks, I want no part of it right now. I wish I had been paid money for each time I thought I had arrived at "forgiveness". I have backslid once again - anger has returned. Mostly anger at me but also for her destroying how she did.
So I flip-flop between anger and depression.
I'm sorry...and I so very much know how you feel. It is good of you to post it...sometimes over in surviving everyone is so perky it feels wrong to still have these strong attachments and negative emotions. But we do have them, and it helps I think for others to see and know they aren't alone.
Hang in there, we are truly moving forward, just not so directly all the time.
Hugs,
AH
Jeff,
I wish I had been paid money for each time I thought I had arrived at "forgiveness".
I think you just keep doing it and eventually it sticks. Truth of the matter is that you forgave her the first time you forgave her, if that makes any sense. The rest of it is just you accepting that you forgave her and reminding yourself why.
As for this?
Thanks all for posting and continuing to follow a rather dull story.
Don't know about you, but after all the fireworks, dull and boring was just what I was looking forward to for a bit.
Life goes on Jeff. One day we get tired of watching it go by and choose to step in and be a participant. But it's still ok to just watch for awhile. Sometimes it's what we need.
We had another local family here recently who lost a son in Iraq. It dawned on me that their lives are forever changed. They will grieve, get angry, and eventually come to a form of acceptance with what happened, but their lives will never be the same because of this loss. But you know what? They will continue to live, experiencing all life has to offer, the highs, the lows, and all of the time in between. They might have to watch it go by for awhile too, but eventually they'll jump back in again.
You're a father and a kind and generous man. Don't keep your light under the bushel for too long.
Blessings,
Bill
Been a while and it is a rainy Sunday morning here, so time for an update.
First, I was reading all the posts on this thread and I want to thank everyone. So much good advice and lifting comments. Yes DonH, I am in that depressed state you mention and thanks for pointing out that is where you were a year ago. That means light at the end of the tunnel and it is up to me to ensure that it is not a train of my own thoughts bearing down - instead real light, a new beginning.
Ex has been contacting me less which is good. She did get a scare about her father - he went into the hospital with heart problems. He has a long history and the docs were concerned. Ex left for home and her girlfriend dropped me the kids. GF and I were also friends before the D - she was happy to see me again, hugged me and all. She said Ex was concerned about her dad since her dad was so lonely after MIL passed on last November. Sort of lost will to live.
I can relate.
Thankfully the docs got it under control and he was released after a few days. Ex was on the phone with me each day with questions but more for support I think. Her daily calls stopped when former FIL was released and Ex came home.
She did email me on her return that Tuesday and offered to keep the kids that weekend (my weekend starts on Thursday). I declined but she went on about how she missed the kids. Then this past Thursday was "bring your kids to work day". She took them and spent the day with them. At about 4:00 I got a call from my daughter asking if she and my son could stay with mom that night.
Imagine, Ex gave her cell phone to my seven year old so that D7 could ask not to stay with me!!!
WTF?
I told D7 that daddy wants to see her and she said okay. I went about an hour later to fetch the kids. Ex did not even talk to me. She did not look angry, just very depressed. I have not seen her in a while and she looked bad. Depressed, sad, overweight.
I did not mention the cell phone call. I will let it pass this one time.
No, I really don't believe that there is or was another man. Ex is totally wrapped up with the kids and she really thought a divorce meant I would just disappear or something. The kids are her whole life.
But I will not stop being a good dad. If she wanted the kids every day she should have stayed and worked on the marriage, not quit. Now her reality is that she is alone and even more so when the kids are with me.
And a good dad is there for his kids. Plus, I can raise the kids as I see fit when they're with me - no competition or standing back with the wife/mom breathing down my neck. Just me as I want to be with them.
And that rocks.
I gave her the divorce; it is what she wanted after all. She should be happy. So very happy.
Instead she is in lah, lah land acting the brat as Jen said.
Progress on the house is at a standstill. I did get the washer/dryer in but then I said screw it. Easier to sit around and feel sorry for myself. Too easy to blame myself and see depression and booze as my crutches and excuses for not moving forward.
The advice above from ISLH is spot on:
Now pick yourself up, dream of how you want your house to look like and putting one foot in front of the other, fulfil your dream. Visualize your kids running in the yard, throwing a football, riding a bike, laying on a blanket at night looking at the stars. You can have it all but you have to dream it first.
That's the ticket. Thanks.
I may stay in this forum for my next thread. I thought I was done but I will not be done until I take care of me. Those feelings are still there. I am not ready for "surviving" yet. I thought I had let go but I have not.
I will.
Strength and honor.
Good to hear from you Jeff.
I am not ready for "surviving" yet.
Stuff surviving, try 'thriving' on for size.
Too easy to blame myself and see depression and booze as my crutches and excuses for not moving forward.
Hope the booze isn't feeding the depression and blame.
You know we all have to be our own best friend.
Friends don't put down friends or do things to hurt their friends, do they.
If you have done everything you can do, then what is there to beat yourself up for?
Hold your head up high, you are a honorable man. Where many others would have given up you have stood for what you believed in.
Things that happened in the past are gone, done, it's what you do right now that matters.
Your thoughts and actions make your future so really it's all up to you.
Take care,
Paul.
How are you doing Jeffy?
SD
Just checking in. Been a while.
In the funk lately but slowly, slowly coming out of it. I do feel better but the anger and fear of the future are still there.
Divorce is very hard to take.
I have stopped work on the house. After the washer/dryer was in I lost interest.
Pig-pen city here. Uckk.
I do feel differently than I did but nothing has changed really. I am more aware now and I know what needs to be improved but I just am not morphing into that new, wonderful man. I really doubt I will ever change really.
I have read the books. But putting it into practice? Well..............
I hold back when it comes to women. I tell myself I am not ready but I wonder if that is just fear talking. No need to wonder - I know the answer. So do not want to be hurt again, to the point I look down on women in general. Even today, one tried to talk to me in the elevator, smiled and all - I just wanted to escape.
Notice my words: "one tried...". Sounds like I was describing something not human.
Maybe that is why work on the house has stopped. Can't romance anyone here since the place is such a mess.
Yea, makes no sense.
Don't scold me.
June is my time with the kids. Ex cannot stand it, her whole life is the kids. She called a few days ago wanting to bring something over that was unnecessary. Just to see them. I said no (nicely). Today she emailed and wanted to take the kids to a ballgame tonight; her friend's kids were playing (those kids and mine are friends). Guilt trip. I said no. I wonder if my inner little boy said no or I said it b/c she takes and takes and runs these guilt trips on me (kids would have wanted to go) and offers nothing in return.
Nothing.
She so misses the kids but cannot understand that I do too. Just as much. The kids deserve a father too so I plan not to give up time with them. She never does even though she gets 60% time with them.
Ex needs to get laid.
So do I.
Should have listened when others talked about equal placement for the kids. Should have listened.
But kids and I had fun this evening: we ate some great pasta and watched NCIS.
That rocks.
Vacation this month - kids want to go back to Tenn. They really like it there and there is so much for kids to do. I could try something new like Disney or Six Flags but those places are far and more demanding (cost, crowds, etc). Something new sounds good but so does the known. May consider renting a cabin in Tenn this year to be somewhat different. I will decide next week.
Hope you all are doing well.
We just saw the Indiana Jones movie. Good and not so, but overall worth the ticket. At the end one character says: we waste so much of our lives waiting.
True words, are they not???
Waiting. Waiting is watching the world go by.
Strength and Honor.
In the funk lately but slowly, slowly coming out of it. I do feel better but the anger and fear of the future are still there.
Divorce is very hard to take.
It is emotionally draining. I am happy to hear that slowly the funk is lifting. No funky men. The anger does creep up doesn't it? The fear also. As long as you don't let it consume you sweetie. You are in many prayers. Believe and trust in the fact that your future will be bright.
Well I don't think that the ladies are gonna love that.
I hold back when it comes to women. I tell myself I am not ready but I wonder if that is just fear talking. No need to wonder - I know the answer. So do not want to be hurt again, to the point I look down on women in general. Even today, one tried to talk to me in the elevator, smiled and all - I just wanted to escape.
I think holding back, is fine. I do the same. Why "practice" on someone else, or why use someone else to escape the funk? It is not fair to that other person, and it will make us jerks. Ick.
In time lovey. I have so much faith in you.
You have read the books, and I think you do put it into practice. It may not be always, but for the most part, you know the deal.
I am a bit confused by your custody agreement. You only get the kids for the month of June?
Yes, do not give up your time with the kids. Also do not punish the X by not letting her see the kids just because.
Camping sounds like a great adventure. Yeah the known is great and safe. But an adventure with dad, is priceless.
Tenn is very nice, I was just there myself. Jeepers, but when it rains it really pours.
M&M loved the Indiana Jones movie, I was good until the alien.
Waiting. Waiting is watching the world go by.
Enjoy the pieces out of that waiting. The world will look so much cooler.
Hugs sweetie.
Love that you posted!
Thanks Lissie. So sweet of you.
Someday the fog will lift. And I like the part of not using someone else right now. And I would be b/c of my inner feelings.
Thanks again.
As to custody, I average 40% of the time with them over the year. It is about 30/70 during the school week but it is 50/50 weekends, holidays, school breaks and the summer. June is just special b/c I get them 10 days straight for vacation over and above the schedule. So for the 30 days of June, the kids are with me 25 of the 30 days.
Sweet.
But I lose time in July when it is her turn to vacation.
Time I will use to turn the pig-pen into a palace!
No matter. I am making the most of a bad situation. So are the kids but I can see where they wish we were a family again.
I was good until the alien.
You too? I thought the movie was great until the ending. But still worth an afternoon with the kids.
huggs.
Sorry you're feeling low Jeff, it comes over that you are frustrated with feeling low, you feel as if you "should" be in a better place, you "should" be ready to date, you "should" be able to let XW's actions have no effect on you.
Note the word "should". i'd like to get it banned from the English language (and other languages as well)
You have taken a huge knock. Allow yourself to grieve for the lost R, if you didn't you wouldn't be human.
The kids - will never, EVER stop being your kids and there is nothing anyone can do about that. OK, you may have less time with them now but from what I read the time you do have with them is wonderful. Please focus more on what you do have and less on what you don't (hope this makes sense).
I do feel differently than I did but nothing has changed really. I am more aware now and I know what needs to be improved but I just am not morphing into that new, wonderful man. I really doubt I will ever change really.
If you think you can, you can. If you think you can't, you won't. Sounds to me like you need some goal setting. This is something I do in my life ALL THE TIME now. I ask you now:
1. what do you want to improve?
2. what is that new, wonderful man like? How does he talk? What does he say? what does he do? How does he walk? What tone of voice does he use? What are his interests? How does he deal with life's knocks? Anything else about him?
Once you have identified specifically WHAT you want, you can work towards it. While your goal is always a wooly "better" it can be hard to attain it.
Are you missing the small signs too? It can be a useful exercise to look back and compare yourself now with you 2,3,5, 10 etc years ago.
I want to share as well something I came across last night. As you are aware, I struggle with my weight and it's all bundled up with my self esteem. I emotional eat a lot. I have given up on diets (I know how to eat healthily) and focus on changing me from the inside so I don't "eat my emotions". Anyhoo .... I came across EFT. I do tend to tell myself negative things in my weight loss journey (eg " I do eat like a pig, I do eat more than everyone else, I will always be the fat one") and this really hit me (from the website I will post below):
"Once you stop telling yourself negative things on a regular basis you'll find you do have power over yourself and your environment, and you'll start to be motivated toward making positive changes."
Have a look at the link, OK it's for weight loss but I think this may be of use to you. If not, well , nothing ventured, nothing gained.
EFT link Take care Jeff. You will survive this, I believe in you.
Hi Jeff, have a read of these. I know I've mentioned this mindfulness stuff to you before, but you gotta get out of that funk, so here's some links.
There has to somewhere near you that does it and can show you the ropes as it were.
The Mindfulness bell magazine
http://mindfulnessbell.org/Mindfulness practicing groups (non-profit)
http://www.mindfulnessbell.org/usa_sangha.htmProfessionals
http://www.umassmed.edu/cfm/mbsr/Quick intro
http://ptsd.about.com/od/selfhelp/ht/mindfulexe2.htmMore food for thought
http://healing.about.com/od/mandalahealing/a/mandala_moss_2.htmTake care,
Paul
Our little town has come a long way.
The chicks took me to this great place.
http://www.teakonthehudson.com/Who would of thought Hoboken, would be come such a hot spot.
Oh yeah the food was FANTASTIC.
Hey Jeff........for you buddy......
highly reccomended Ian
Happy Fathers Day Jeff.
Hope you get a chance to hug your kids and that you are reminded of what a powerful role in their lives.
Bill
Thanks all. Jenny and Paul and Lissie - thanks. I do need to break out of my funk.
Kids wanted to go back to Tenn so I used SoFar's website. Got a cabin for the week. Should be fun. Pool Table and a hot tub. Thanks Ian.
Thanks Bill. Father's day was okay but it was better when we were a whole family.
I am doing okay - looking forward to the vacation. So much going on at work but I will leave that for a week.
Ex called on father's day to talk to the kids. I resented the break with the kids but did not say anything. After she talked to the kids, my son handed me the phone (normally Ex just hangs up after speaking to the kids). Ex wished me a happy father's day.
Unexpected.
I asked about her dad. If you recall he had a health scare a few months back and former MIL recently passed on.
Found out he remarried! Six months after MIL's passing - his bride of 50 years.
Married an old friend he has known since school days. They are both similar age (mid-70's) and he did it b/c he was lonely.
Ex's sister is all put out (sister took care of mom/dad - she lives in same town) and I was about to ask Ex how she felt but the her cell lost signal.
Ex did not call back.
So my former FIL gets remarried within 6-months? Kind of tells you something about relationships does it not? I will let you all fill in the blanks. Such as an affair before hand?????
No matter I guess. I just found it interesting.
The more I learn the easier it is for me to realize I married wrong in the first place.
Time to learn from the past so as not to err in the future.
Strength and Honor.
Wow. Remarries within 6 months after 50 years to his bride? I hear that sort of thing often enough and still can't understand it.
You sound better.
You sound better?
You sound better!
Hope you have a wonderful time creating new memories with your kids!
Jeff,
Glad to hear you are going on a vacation with the kids.
Your Ex didn't have to wish you a Happy F's Day, but she did. Maybe unexpected but then again, we can never tell what they will do. My Ex actually responded to an email after 8 months of never even an acknowledgement of my emails. Blew me away.
As for your FIL getting remarried, at that age, I hear it is for companionship and usually nothing more. Love at that age means something different than when we are 20, 30, 40, etc.. It doesn't mean he didn't love your MIL. I know it sounds foreign to us but then again, we're not in our 70's and I don't want to judge him unless I was walking in his shoes.
Also, his sitch is different than ours. His W passed away. There is closure.
Enjoy the vacation. Sounds like it will be fun.
Hugs,
ISLH
Hey ISLH. Thought you dropped off. Hope all is well. Time for you to update us (maybe you have and I missed your thread?)
On vacation with the kids. Having fun. The cabin has internet and a pool table but is it kind of small. But the bedrooms are on separate floors so the kids and I have space.
The weather is great and the attractions are great. Kids are going on and on about everything. They are having fun.
More people here than normal. Lots of traffic and line waiting. But that is okay.
However, I don't like the vacation for the same reasons as last year - only worse this year.
This is a *family* vacation and we are not a complete family. I see too many "happy" couples with their kids. Laughing and sharing and teaching their kids what life is about.
I am a single dad and it sucks.
My daughter has mentioned several times now how she misses mom not being with us.
The kids call Ex last night - they were so excited about the trip and wanted to share with mom. At the end of their call S10 gave me the phone and said "mom wants to talk to you" in an excited way. I say hi and Ex tries to make small talk and then says that "the kids sure wanted us to talk" and then "did you ask to speak to me?".
Sure the kids wanted us to talk. They spent all day seeing family after family - moms and dads together. DUHHH. Ex has not a clue what this has done to our kids.
Not a clue.
I told her "no, I did not ask to speak with you" - end of phone call.
I don't want her in my life except as a co-parent. I refuse her as a *friend" in any sense of that word.
It is difficult to show her respect when I am with the kids when in fact I have little respect for her.
But I will not let this hurt the kids any more than possible. And they have been hurt - even if Ex chooses to turn a blind eye to reality.
Jeff, it's more than time that you make YOUR life YOUR memories with the kids. Quit tormenting yourself going back to the places where you were a family.
Create your own life.
Create your own happiness.
Step out of your box.
Get over being bitter about the past, it will only give xw more reason to say 'see! I was right!'
Ok, I'll even say it - GAL! but make it your own.
Oh, and send pics or I'll make you come and work on my fences.
Sure the kids wanted us to talk. They spent all day seeing family after family - moms and dads together. DUHHH. Ex has not a clue what this has done to our kids.
Not a clue.
I told her "no, I did not ask to speak with you" - end of phone call.
I don't want her in my life except as a co-parent. I refuse her as a *friend" in any sense of that word.
It is difficult to show her respect when I am with the kids when in fact I have little respect for her.
Jeff,
I agree.... I think you should have as little contact with her as possible...... IMHO, contact OUTSIDE the realm of co-parenting is unecessary....
"The past is never there when you try to go back. It exists, but only in memory. To pretend otherwise is to invite a mess." - Chris Cobbs
Take Care,
NMD
Jeff,
Since I am in a philosophical mood, I will leave you a quote from one of my favorite historical figures...
"The present is never our goal: the past and present are our means: the future alone is our goal. Thus, we never live but we hope to live; and always hoping to be happy, it is inevitable that we will never be so." - Blaise Pascal
Take Care,
NMD
Good quotes NMD. Thanks for stopping by.
WCW - would not matter the spot - all these vacation spots are designed around the "happy" family, not the single parent. That is what sucks, not the fact that Ex and I came here before (we never came with the kids so the kids do feel that this is "our" place - the kids and mine - Ex has never taken the kids here).
But you are correct about losing the anger.
Spent the day at Dollywood. Spent is the key word - we are dog tired. Plus we go back tomorrow (two day pass). Got to do alot and got on some good rides. Got wet (lot of water related rides here). Fun.
Had several couples ask if I would take their picture for them. I must be someone they trust with their camera
Cute couples all. Felt like giving them the URL of this BB - most likely they will need it
Tight tops and shorts seem to be 'in' on women this summer. Some hot women out there but most don't take care of themselves. Neither do the guys.
And tight tops and shorts on the teens - well I would not let my daughter dress like what I have seen. But she is only S7, not S15 so I don't know. But girls did not dress that way when I was younger - or at least I did not notice.
So, life goes on. Kids ARE having fun and memories ARE being built.
That rocks.
And although I could use some adult interaction (other than with the people on the waiting lines), I do get to call the shots for me and the kids without 'her' interference.
And THAT rocks.
Jeff,
Glad you are having fun. Look on the bright side of this. If she was there, you probably would be making concessions so that she doesn't have to do stuff she doesn't want to (like stay at the amusement park too long) and you could just as easily be fighting with her as making good memories. These kind of vacations are fraught with opportunities to fight.