Posted By: Jeff223 Moving Forward - 03/18/07 07:08 PM
Thread 1
Thread 2
Thread 3
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Thread 6

Thread #7. What a year! I am glad that last tread locked - never want to repeat that stuff!

But after this trial, I am so happy I cannot stand it!

Brief recap:
Me: 51, WAW: 43; two kids: S9 and D6
Bomb (I don’t love you – I am leaving next month): Jan 06
She never left but I moved out to give her space: 11 May 06
She wants a D (via an email): Jun 06
Complaint for Divorce filed D: 11 Oct 06

It has been over a year now.

WAW wants a D and will not consider changing her mind. I made changes and worked hard and I was hoping for a turn around, especially over the holidays. But nothing has changed and now it is time to move forward.

No, I am not quitting. But there comes a time when if you love someone you must not hold them against their will. If she feels certain that I am no longer right for her, then she cannot be right for me. That is her decision; it says nothing about me.

I haven't been letting go of W. I am letting go now. I'm sorry she is gone. It's nobody’s fault; it's just the way it is. I must accept it; I cannot move forward until I do.

It is time to GAL, move on, focus on me and my children.

I am not a failure here. Why am I so happy? I have been given these great gifts:


I am coming to know what it is to be a man.

I am now in touch with me and my emotions.

I now know what unconditional love is (finally!)

I now know that I am in control of my life.

I now accept who I am and I will never again apologize for it.

I now know that I will do great things with my life. I will strive to grow.

I can now lead an honorable and compelling life filled with opportunities, not roadblocks.

I now understand that I must move my life from one centered on validation toward a life governed by these principles, my core values: Integrity, Respect (self-respect and respecting others), Family, Faith, Loyalty, Understanding, Perseverance, Knowledge, Freedom and Forgiveness.

I am certain that I will continue to nourish my wonderful R with my kids that did not exist before.

I now realize that I must be be the best former H I can be. I will support her as best I can.

Strength and Honor.
Posted By: I_Still_Love_Him Re: Moving Forward - 03/18/07 07:54 PM
Hey Jeff,

Found you ;\)

What a year indeed. It has been a test of strength and character and you PASSED.
I am not a failure here. Why am I so happy? I have been given these great gifts:

Right you are and what gifts they are. You sound good. I know your future will be brighter (even when you don't believe it). The time truly has come to take care of Jeff and let God's plan unfold. That plan is unknown but it will reveal itself one day soon.

Posted By: Lost_for_now Re: Moving Forward - 03/20/07 03:27 PM
Hey Jeff,

Reading your post made me think of something. I had dinner with my parents a couple days ago, and my mom said something to me. She said, every once in a while I make a "grateful list" of things that I am grateful for. It helps me. I thought that was a great idea, and your list of 'gifts' that you listed reminded me of that.

It really sounds like you're doing great, and I hope to one day get to the point that you are now at.
Posted By: BaseballAnnie Re: Moving Forward - 03/20/07 05:28 PM
You sound amazing.

I am so happy for you, that you find yourself in this place.

I wish only good things for you.

Posted By: faithisbelieving Re: Moving Forward - 03/22/07 09:12 PM
My friend...my rock....that's you Jeff. Overall, you are a great guy.

My turn:

I admire you Jeff..your strength, your honesty, your character, your compassion for people you have never even met.

Posted By: ford Re: Moving Forward - 03/23/07 04:46 AM
Heyya Jeff

you're definitely a success.

showing you can go through the mud and still clean up nicely, can only give hope to those whose situations are not the brightest.
Posted By: Jen_Jam Re: Moving Forward - 03/25/07 04:03 PM
WOW Jeff.
This is great - you are a model of acceptance.

I'm sorry it hasn't worked out, I know you gave your best, and it looks to me like you can walk away with your head held high saying "I tried what I could but it's not to be".

That takes a lot of strength.

I hope you continue to stick about. I like to think of YOU as a success story. (OK, the DB may not be a success but to my eyes YOU are a success - does that make sense?)
Posted By: faithisbelieving Re: Moving Forward - 03/25/07 04:07 PM
...an absolute success. Thanks for your continued patience Jeff and upbeat attitude to me. FIB
Posted By: Bworl Re: Moving Forward - 03/26/07 11:53 PM

I have no doubt that you will see this ending through with the same dignity and honor that you've handled everything else with.

There does indeed come a time when we have to believe that when they say they are done, they are done. You have used this ordeal to become a better man, a better father, a better son, and, one day, a better husband. Maybe the whole point of ministering to each other through this site like we do is to ensure that each of us use this critical time in our lives to prepare ourselves for the life that remains in front of us. I think we are all guilty from time to time of thinking that our marriage issues are the beginning, middle, and end of our existence as human beings. Nothing could be further from the truth.

You have learned, as so many others have, that we all have ways in which our lives could be better. These crises have given each of us as LBS's the opportunity to address these things and prepare to enjoy the fruit of that labor one day. You will do this Jeff. Fact is you already are.

Your encouragement and compassion to others on this board has helped smooth the road for so many people. People, as FIB noted, that you didn't even know personally. This speaks volumes about the quality of a man that you are.

I'm proud to call you a friend. And I'm proud of where you are and where you are headed. Life IS good and there is so much out there for each of us to embrace with enthusiasm.

Still hoping for that steak and beer one day.


Posted By: Jen_Jam Re: Moving Forward - 03/27/07 12:18 AM
Originally Posted By: Bworl
Maybe the whole point of ministering to each other through this site like we do is to ensure that each of us use this critical time in our lives to prepare ourselves for the life that remains in front of us. I think we are all guilty from time to time of thinking that our marriage issues are the beginning, middle, and end of our existence as human beings. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Bill, VERY well said. \:\)
Posted By: faithisbelieving Re: Moving Forward - 03/27/07 12:29 PM
Well said Bill....and..yes...maybe this summer, after my W leaves in spring as she tells me she is, we can hook up.

Jeff..whaddya think?

Posted By: JohnS58 Re: Moving Forward - 03/28/07 09:53 PM
Jeff - I just got done reading your post from 3/18 and found it truly inspirational and uplifting. Your frame of mind is fantastic. Lost_for_Now also brought up an interesting point in his response as well. Every now and then when I get down and depressed I am reminded about how much I still have. Sure, things are not what I would like them to be but I could have ended up in much worse shape emotionally, physically, and materially. All and all I had a soft landing. When I become aware of that it takes away much of the pain and regret, and I push on. It is amazing how the good times still occur and I can find myself content and able to laugh, even at myself.

Continued best wishes and happiness to you.
Posted By: Jeff223 Re: Moving Forward - 04/01/07 02:46 PM
Thanks everyone.

First the news: My W has returned to me!!!!!
Got you. April fool!

Life is fine overall. I won't lie: many ups and downs on the emotional front. The lows are not so low lately and I wish the ups were higher but I will take it right now.

I have decided to press to get the D final; I am working the papers. Taking 'control' of the process is indeed lifting.

How do I know I am done? Let me use an example. I took S9 to his baseball game yesterday. My W came to watch. I was upbeat but W had little to say and no eye contact. She did sit near me but she spent her time talking to others which is rude to say the least.

At one point D6 stood between W and I. She took my hand in one of her hands and W's hand in her other. She brought our hands together. No reaction from W. D6 did it again and W pulled away slightly. How sad. In W's mind this whole thing is better for the kids (she told so once).

And I had little reaction. I did not expect anything different. That is detachment helping.

And it is clear that it is time.

Thanks again for checking in. It really does help me and I am grateful.

Strength and Honor all.
Posted By: faithisbelieving Re: Moving Forward - 04/01/07 03:12 PM
I am going to quote Sots here:

A Freakin' horse's A$$. Horrible. I'm angry.
Grab the hand, wink and make a joke of it.
Anything...except hurt the heart of a child.

You're above this.


Posted By: I_Still_Love_Him Re: Moving Forward - 04/01/07 04:52 PM
Well, I'm glad you still have a sense of humour.

How do I know I am done? Let me use an example. I took S9 to his baseball game yesterday. My W came to watch. I was upbeat but W had little to say and no eye contact. She did sit near me but she spent her time talking to others which is rude to say the least.

Okay, I must be missing something here. Why is talking to others rude? Would you not be talking to others if they were sitting near you and you were trying to be friendly? Why do you let that get to you? She is feeling uncomfortable with the tension between you and is trying to get through the game and wants you to think she is happy. In fact, you could have joined in on the conversation. You need to continue to focus on being happy yourself. It is hard, I know Jeff, but you need to focus on YOU.

Even if your W doesn make eye contact or had little to say, what is stopping you from making conversation and just appearing to be fine with the way things are going for you (even if it may not necessarily be the case right now). If she realizes that you are not happy, she knows she still has control of you. Are you really detached, Jeff? Think about it, really.

Okay, let me know when your S9's next game is and maybe I'll come down to watch his game. We'll talk the whole time while your W sits there seathing. I bet she'll start showing more interest in you then. ;\) Trust me Jeff, if your W realizes that she is getting closer to losing you, she will have to deal with her issues sooner rather than later.

If you truly feel that pushing for a D is the right thing for you, only you know that. I will continue to support you as you have been here to support me and others going through this crap.

As for the interaction with your D6 and your W, your D6 will remember what your W did and she will eventually say something. It is really sad that your W doesn't realize how she is hurting the kids and the relationship she will have with them when they get older. I agree with FIB, never hurt the heart of a child even if it means you may have to do something you don't necessarily want to. Shame on your W.

Spring....maybe this truly is the season of new found hope for us LBS and perhaps our WAS really are doing us a big favour. Only time will tell.


Thread #7 - D papers on their way for ISLH
Posted By: Jeff223 Re: Moving Forward - 04/01/07 06:09 PM
Thanks FIB and ISLM.

ISLH - I will try not to be defensive but if someone chooses to act like a bit*h, ignore you on purpose, and try to lure you into argument (which she tried to do at one point) then I call that rude, among other terms.

What I tried to say is that it did not affect me; or, to be very honest, not even close to as much as it would have just months ago. Why? B/c I see her for what she is.

There comes a time when we need to stop apologizing for them. If they cannot treat us decently, sit somewhere else, not next to me. I see too many wonderful people here blame themselves or try to even defend the crass behaviors of their former partners, when in fact they are responsible for how they act, not us.

Was I seathing? I can honestly so no - never entered my mind. I expected her to behave that way. I had a good time watching my son get his first hit of the season. I enjoyed D6 playing on the monkey bars.

What did affect me was when D6 tried to pull us together. It affects me when this affects my kids.

Reading back that does sound defensive - but it was good to write ISLH. Thanks, keep me honest. \:\)
Posted By: princess_nic Re: Moving Forward - 04/01/07 06:14 PM

Thanks for your posts on my thread; I do appreciate them very much.

I just read the first post on this thread, and it was wonderful. Of course, there are ups and downs--I guess that is normal. I seem to go from high to low in seconds, lol! I guess things will level out at some point.

ISLH makes some good points about your W's behaviour, but it's hard to tell how she was acting from a post. I'm guessing she ignored you, which is indeed rude and hurtful. However, you and I both need to get to the place where it is not hurtful.

One of my best friends keeps saying to me, "Who CARES what he's doing? Who cares if he's happy? So what? All that matters is that YOU be happy." True words, but so hard to follow.

Whether or not you eventually reconcile, I think this is an important step, so that she will not have such emotional power over you. After all, you want to be able to see her w/ clear eyes if ever she does want to get back together--and that means not all positive or all negative.

I hear you about taking control of the D; I'm doing that, too. I gave H a proposed custody agreement and he's digesting it. I made a mediation appt, I'm getting the house appraised. I just want this over with. When it is done, I will see where things stand with us. But for right now, it has to be over.
Posted By: ford Re: Moving Forward - 04/01/07 06:29 PM
Originally Posted By: Jeff223
What I tried to say is that it did not affect me; or, to be very honest, not even close to as much as it would have just months ago. Why? B/c I see her for what she is.

oh how I relate to this statement.

I always saw my wife as she was when I met her, I really did, in my minds eye she was this incredibly beautiful 18 yr old that treated me like a king. then after her affair , all the "truths" started coming out and I finally saw her for what she IS. when my eyes finally opened, I saw a mean, self centered 41 yr old woman, who I didn't recognize.

I spent 20 plus years making excuses for her, I guess they call it "denial" everyone around me saw it, but I "Loved" her too much to see it.

once the blinders come off, it's easy to detach, it's easier to make sound decisions for you and your kids.

seeing them in their true light helps regain a self of yourself, at least it did for me.
Posted By: Jeff223 Re: Moving Forward - 04/01/07 10:19 PM
However, you and I both need to get to the place where it is not hurtful. One of my best friends keeps saying to me, "Who CARES what he's doing? Who cares if he's happy? So what? All that matters is that YOU be happy." True words, but so hard to follow.

Yes that is true nicola. But we will always care, that is just us. That is what is good about us - we care. Your friend should have asked "why do we react; why does it affect us in such a negative way?"

As ford points out, if we see the other person for who they really are, and not through the LBS foggy lense, then we can feel correctly. If someone I don't know too well does me wrong, that crosses a boundary, and I react as needed. Why should I feel or act any differently towards my xW? Likewise, treat me well and I will treat you likewise. This too applies to xW.

It is so easy for me to confuse detachment with ignoring or no contact or not caring. I do care and most likely always will. But I refuse to apologize for her actions any longer. She acts the way she wants to b/c she has free will. I will try to empathize with her b/c she is also going through a rough time and I had a role in this, but she is ultimately responsible for her actions and I will treat her behavior accordingly.

But I will pick and choose my responses; 90% of what she says or does should not affect me at all b/c it will be about her - not me. I will then just shake it off and smile.

If I treat her any other way I will lose whatever respect she has for me. And I will not respect myself.
Posted By: WCW Re: Moving Forward - 04/03/07 05:26 PM
Hey Jeff, I didn't give up on anything yet... it's getting closer... but H is not out the door quite yet.
Now I even have email limbo too...lost in email cyberspace...but I did reply to your 2nd send. Advice and nudging appreciated, please and thanks.
BTW, I am really depressed you wouldn't even wave when I powered down your interstate. Piglet wouldn't wave either though. Is that southern hospitality? ;\)
Posted By: Lost_for_now Re: Moving Forward - 04/03/07 05:45 PM
Hey Jeff,

Wanted to take the opportunity to say thanks to you yet again and also that I hope that things are going well for you!

I am feeling (surprisingly) much better and you helped a lot.
Posted By: Jeff223 Re: Moving Forward - 04/04/07 02:51 PM
Just want to journal some.

In a real good place right now. Still have detaching to do but I feel great. W continues to try to press my buttons but I just say "it is perfectly okay; it is her, nothing to do with me".

I am not sure her hurting me is intentional. Part of it is b/c she is still angry b/c in her mind I caused all this. But the other part is that she is increasingly uncomfortable around me (guilt?) and stumbles over her words - sometimes saying something that comes out wrong and hateful, but she is quick to correct. Interesting.

Bad news - S9 was over my apartment Sunday playing hard and he jammed his finger. At least I thought it was a jam at the time. I emailed W Monday when I returned the kids to her. Finger got worse and W took him to the doc Tuesday. She immediately called me: turns out it is broken and she was on her way to a bone doctor. When W was talking to me she sort of grilled me about what happened. I tried to fill in the detail but she kept on. Finally she said "I just need the info b/c the doc may ask - I know you did not hurt him". Then she backed off and said "I know he was just playing".

This is an example of what mean. It had no affect at the time but last night it did for some reason (you guys are right: I still have detaching to do ISLH and nicola). Today I am fine b/c I think she was just angry and stressed out.

W also 'forgot' to tell me about D6 singing at the PTA meeting last night. Again, was it intentional or stress? Does it really matter?

Although S9 will miss some baseball he is 'thrilled' about the cast on his hand. Seems it is much bigger than you would expect. Makes you popular at school I guess. That is a good way to view what should be negative. I can learn from my son.

More bad news: a good friend at work had to see after his mom in the hospital. Colon cancer. He called me several times and it sounded like a replay of my mom. The medical decisions he had to make - slow recovery from surgery/illness - reactions to drugs - his mom wanting to give up - finding her a rehab facility. He thanked me for sharing what I went through with my mom. But then he asked how did I do it? He had his brother and his brother's family there helping full time and he is not going through a divorce so his family was there for him also. He said he admired me. I never considered that - I was dwelling on the negative, not how strong I really was.

Last journal entry: I asked my W for some summer clothes for the kids. She asked for money. I emailed her and said no problem but the child support I was paying was to cover clothes. Actually I do not send her a check fo the kids - I pay her house payment and some expenses that equals (exceeds really) the child support requirement. But she asked "I don't want to make you mad but what bills are you paying and how much are they and what is the child support requirement?" She did not have a clue.

I replied with all the info. I felt strong and in control but I also resented doing all the work here. After all she is the one who wants this D. She should know what bills I am paying and what the court specifies for child support. It will be difficult to settle with her if she does not do any legwork to get the facts.

But she always relied on me to take charge so I guess I will soldier on. I still feel good about taking charge of the paperwork. And I feel that I am supporting her and my family by being the leader here. I feel it is my responsibility as a man.

So, life continues. Need to make the tax man happy, buy Easter candy, and put the finishing touches on my draft D-paperwork. More later.

Strength and Honor.
Posted By: Glenda_aka_kc Re: Moving Forward - 04/04/07 04:19 PM
Jeff, I've never had the opportunity to read your thread before coming across you on WCW's thread. You are definitely an incredible person.

I don't know what the "rules" are in Alabama but here in Alaska paying bills for your wife wouldn't be considered child support. It would just be paying bills for your wife. It is only considered child support if given to the other partner to spend on the children's care. And, I know a few people who made the error of paying the support in cash...not trackable...and ended up in arrears but we have a real child support gestapo system in this state.

I can so feel for you right now. I ended up finishing the D now XH wanted. Maybe he never would have filed, I'll never know, but we were in the middle of a major move, after 23 years in the house we raised our family in, when I got the ILYBINILWY speech and how he didn't want to be married. We had sold one piece of property we owned to make a down on our new house and XH blew threw it all. Current house was about to go on the market and I had to move so I filed a court petition asking him to come home and go to marriage counseling. His response was "No" so it became a D petition. I don't know why I might have expected anything else but I had to make one last ditch effort.

It's been 1-1/2 years since the gavel fell in court. Even there, when the judge asks if you agree it is irreconciliable, I said no I didn't believe that, but our state laws say if one person wants a divorce the other must acquiesce....so, I acquiesce to his wishes.

I still care and I still miss him. Spent half my life with him and I don't think there is any replacing what we had. We honestly had a pretty darn good life. I think he was/is in MLC. He is going home this month for his dad's memorial service. His dad was ill over the last few years, passed away last November, and he's helping his mom, made the down payment on a new place for her to live where she is close enough to drive herself around to places she needs to go, etc. Not sure if their old house has sold yet. I told him I'm very proud of him for helping his mom.

I hope your current situation goes smoothly for you. There are certainly ups and downs.
Posted By: Jeff223 Re: Moving Forward - 04/04/07 05:35 PM
Thanks Glenda. Our temp court order covers both child support and living expenses and provides a formula on how to figure both. Using that formula, I am greatly 'overpaying' living expenses while not specifically paying child support. So I think I am safe. But that makes me want to get things settled so she does not pull me to court claiming I am a deadbeat dad while I would have to counter that she was not paying her fair share of our living expenses!!!!

I also appreciate you sharing that you still care. That makes me feel good b/c I grew to hate her but now I am finding forgiveness and caring. I think I always will care also, but in a different way. I also know I will find love again with someone else but there will always be a place for the mother of my kids.
Posted By: I_Still_Love_Him Re: Moving Forward - 04/05/07 03:55 AM
Hi Jeff,
I am not sure her hurting me is intentional. Part of it is b/c she is still angry b/c in her mind I caused all this.
And when will she ever take her share of the responsibility? She may be angry because she doesn't know how to make amends without appearing to admit that she made a mistake.
sometimes saying something that comes out wrong and hateful, but she is quick to correct. Interesting.

Seems to me that her heart is starting to soften.

I'm sorry to hear about S9's finger especially since he got his first hit this past week. Good point about taking a bad situation and making it into positive thing. Definitely applies here.

Continue to be strong and not let her words and anger get you. This is about her.


Thread #7
Posted By: I_Still_Love_Him Re: Moving Forward - 04/08/07 02:55 PM
Happy Easter! Hope you didn't hide the chocolates in places where you can't find them.

Posted By: Jeff223 Re: Moving Forward - 04/09/07 03:56 PM
Hey all,
Feel great today after a great Easter. Had the kids all weekend. I (or I should say the Easter Bunny) got them Easter Baskets and candy and they were thrilled. I also hid some candy filled ‘eggs’ and they had fun hunting them up. Church was uplifting and we had my mom over for dinner Sunday – made homemade pasta – her favorite, and mine. She was glad to see the kids and she played games with them. Great fun.

I hope everyone else had a great weekend!

So some sunshine on many of my *regulars* that are having a difficult time now: IamTJ, FIB, nicola, ISLH, WCW, DonH, lost-for-now, TNP, Lissett, Baseball Annie (BA, I hope you are doing well but you have been quiet lately).

Also wanted to send prayers your way. You are all very special people.
Posted By: Lost_for_now Re: Moving Forward - 04/09/07 06:27 PM
Hey Jeff,

I am really happy for you. Sounds like your Easter was great, with your mom and your kids. I can't tell you how happy I am for you and the great day that you had. Many more are on the way for you.

And thanks for mentioning me, I truly appreciate it. I am not enjoying the tunnel, but am navigating it out of necessity.

Thanks for all of your help.
Posted By: BaseballAnnie Re: Moving Forward - 04/09/07 10:58 PM
Oh, this did my heart good to read today. How wonderful that you and your kids and your mom got to spend Easter together and had what sounds like a great time.

Thanks for your kind words for me, have been a little emotional lately, working through some things for Lent. I emerged from Easter rejuvenated.

I spent a few hours today with my SS27 who was in town last week for the Masters and carved out some time with me today before heading back home. Was our first visit (his first trip East) since he moved out West last fall and it was wonderful to see him. I love him so much and am blessed to have him in my life.

Prayers and good wishes for you and yours, hope you held back some chocolate eggs for yourself.

Posted By: Jeff223 Re: Moving Forward - 04/10/07 12:48 AM
Hey Lost - I am still thinking about you - you have my contact info if needed. Luck.

BA - thanks so much. Lent was a time of renewal for me; your comments made me realize that more so. Hope it was the same for you. I still remember giving up meat for Lent!

I also wish to say I also sent prayers for my *success* friends:

John - Your D sucked but you are my model that defines dignity given that outcome. I consider you a success! Right behind you. Prayers.

DaybyDay - hope all is well following your D. Prayers.

Hey Bill - you two doing okay???? Treat that Southern girl well or I will ask Baseball Annie to look you up! Prayers.

Oh, and least I forget the real success stories. Prayers for Jenny, SD, Rob, Piglet, and frank_D. You all are all inspiring! Prayers.

And those I lost: Cherish and Echo. Peace.

I just want to share all that this Easter; even if you did not celebrate the day. No matter; we all need to celebrate what we have and not dwell on our problems. At least for one day.

Strength and Honor.
Posted By: WCW Re: Moving Forward - 04/10/07 02:27 AM
Thanks for the sunshine Jeff. It worked for a while today, in between the flurry of snowstorms. One of those weird as it gets days for the weather.

It is really nice to hear you sounding so good. Keep doing what you are doing, it looks good on you. ;\)
Posted By: faithisbelieving Re: Moving Forward - 04/10/07 02:11 PM
Jeff...thanks also for keeping me in your thoughts. Your life and sitch are MY blueprint for how to be a better man. I'll use your phrase here: I think you are doin' 'fahn'. You've handled your W's irrational anger well. As for your son, I'm sorry that he hurt himself. Accidents DO happen and don't for a second let the W throw guilt at you.

Strength and honor.

Posted By: I_Still_Love_Him Re: Moving Forward - 04/11/07 03:37 AM
Hey Jeff,

So glad to hear you enjoyed Easter with your Mom and kids. I'm glad to see your Mom is doing better and able to enjoy her grandkids. Cherish this time with your Mom and kids. They will see the great son and father you are just as we do.

Homemade pasta? Spaghetti alla chitarra or fettucine? I haven't made it in some time because I couldn't get motivated and S-24's favourite is the spaghetti so thank you for posting this, I think I will make it the next time he comes.

I know what you mean by church being uplifting. While in church, I did shed a few tears but I think that was God cleansing me. I, too enjoyed Easter.

Thanks for the sunshine. With all the sun coming up my way between you and FIB, how can my life NOT be brighter!

We will survive!

Posted By: princess_nic Re: Moving Forward - 04/11/07 08:54 PM
Hi Jeff~

Thanks for the uplifting post!

I am glad to hear that you had such a nice Easter. How wonderful to have your children with you, and to be able to do the Easter Bunny with them. Really, what a joy.

And thanks for the sunshine; I hope it will melt the snow up here, yuck.
Posted By: Jeff223 Re: Moving Forward - 04/13/07 02:37 PM
Drum Roll Please

This in my 1000th post! Somehow that is hard to believe. But so be it.

I continue to feel very good. Got my taxes done (I owed $$) and am finishing up the D-papers. Life is good. But I will be honest - I continue to picture my family all back together and it is hard to accept that this is a done deal. My W and I are getting along quite well lately so it is easier to stay detached. I also feel good about supporting her decision that she needs to do this.

She has problems with eye contact and is very uneasy around me - tells me she is doubting her course but she cannot change it. She is still trying to tell herself her feelings are gone. That is okay. We sat together at my son's ballgame and I was very upbeat and asked her about her life. She went on and on like old times. Never really asked about me - her focus is on her. That is also okay. At one point I moved to sit with my son (he was running the scoreboard since his hand is still in a cast) and she followed there.

I do dread getting the final D decree. I note so many of those I follow take a drop after the judge signs. I guess I still believe deep down that the nightmare will end but when the judge signs it is indeed more than a piece of paper (despite what I tell myself) - it is a death certificate of sorts. Thus we mourn all over again. I do not look forward to that.

Baseball Annie - I hope you are still lurking here. I suspected you also took a dive after the judge signed. You are so strong and that is why I fear getting that final decree. But you still on strong and you were there for me when I needed it. Sometimes we come here to vent and we just want others to say it will be okay. But other times we need that 2x4. You always seemed to know when to hit me upside the head - and while it hurt I was better for it. Thank you. Please start a thread again - I miss reading my horoscope! I also offer my email should you need it: jbg223 at knology.net

Strength and Honor all. On to my 2000th post!!!
Posted By: Lost_for_now Re: Moving Forward - 04/13/07 06:40 PM
Originally Posted By: Jeff223

I do dread getting the final D decree. I note so many of those I follow take a drop after the judge signs. I guess I still believe deep down that the nightmare will end but when the judge signs it is indeed more than a piece of paper (despite what I tell myself) - it is a death certificate of sorts. Thus we mourn all over again. I do not look forward to that.

Hey Jeff,

You have articulated exactly what I have been so scared of for a while now. My W is steamrolling everything in her path at the moment to get the D done and over with. Like you, I fear that it is the death sentence.

OR, as I like to view it, the final rope that is cut on my hot air balloon in order for it to really start to soar!
Posted By: faithisbelieving Re: Moving Forward - 04/13/07 09:12 PM
There must be a bug going around. I'm having a bad day too Jeff. I know how you must feel...we all do, don't we? I'm not sure what's worse....the waiting or the actual D decree.

You've done so much good here Jeff. Take solace in that. We talked about Star Trek once. Do you remember the one...where Spock goes up to Kirk while he rests his head on the desk and says, "Forget". Well, I know we wouldn't want to forget the good times, but, if we could just erase the pain.................

Strength and honor. Stay strong.

Posted By: JohnS58 Re: Moving Forward - 04/15/07 12:57 AM
Hi Jeff - Thanks for the kind words when you mentioned me in one of your recent posts. I have been a pretty infrequent visitor to these boards lately but I felt like I had to catch up on your situation. I could not help notice the irony when you mentioned that your ExW did not have a clue about the details of the financial settlement you have provided. Wasn't she the one who was always critical of your taking charge of things? No need to be bitter though. Like you said, you are being the man and are living up to your responsibilities, both financial and emotional (vis a vis both your ex and the kids). I also admire the way you have been handling your recent interactions with ExW and how much better you are doing emotionally. This is all the more remarkable because of the recent stress involving your Mom's illness. Like your friend noted, you have had to deal with more simultaneous crisis' than most of us had to bear, and you came through with flying colors. By the way, you mentioned in a recent post the IamTJ was having a rough time recently. I will try to find his latest posts and reconnect. He was always rock solid in his support and I hope he is able to cope with his difficulties.
Posted By: BaseballAnnie Re: Moving Forward - 04/15/07 06:24 PM
Hey, Boo, I am around.

Things are weird for me right now, but I am just trying to push on through. Have the last of the things to divide and conquer, last of the issues to be resolved before this mess is all put to bed. I am really out of energy dealing with this post-divorce crap and tired of having to invest so much into getting this marriage dissolved when this was not of my making, but alas, this is where I find myself.

In the meantime, met a nice man, with whom I had much in common. We shared alot of personal information, confided feelings and thoughts in one another. He never pushed it in the direction of a "romance", for which I was grateful, because I realized I wasn't yet ready, nonetheless we had gotten close. But over time, those feelings of not being ready and not wanting to mislead, together with a nagging voice saying something is not what it seems with him, compelled me to pull away. Lo and behold, in the course of a very emotional and angst ridden conversation on his part in which he was questioning my pulling away, he finally came clean and admitted that for the last 6 months he has conveniently failed to make any mention of the wife he has...but he "didn't lie to me" doncha know?

So, no offense to present company, but I am pretty well convinced that the last decent man on earth is my dad. Or Lissett's. But that's the extent of it. The well has been tapped.

Again, not that it matters, cause I'm not ready, but it's a pisser nonetheless to think all guys are either MLC's in progress or fixin to.

As to your question about a sinking spell post execution of the decree, I probably had one of those, but it didn't hit me as hard as I thought it would. Maybe it's still out there waiting to smack me in the head. I did have several friends who said, "let's celebrate!" and I politely declined and said, "I'm not exactly there yet."

The harder thing for me, which you guys don't ever have to endure, has been changing my name back. I struggle with saying my maiden name, with writing it. And every time I have some conflict arise because of it, like cashing a check say, I teeter on the brink of a meltdown. The other day at the bank, I looked at a teller who was questioning my right to deposit a check in my former name, and SNAPPED MY FINGERS, right in front of her face, and said, "Lady, when you get divorced, these things just don't change over JUST LIKE THAT."

Take a drop?

Oh baby, there are drops and there are drops...

You just deal with it as best you can.

You'll be fine.

You don't want to hear our horoscope for today, Boo, it's all about compassion, forgiveness, letting bygones be bygones.

So not in the mood for that.

Posted By: faithisbelieving Re: Moving Forward - 04/16/07 12:17 AM

Posted By: I_Still_Love_Him Re: Moving Forward - 04/16/07 12:37 AM
Hey Jeff
I know what you're feeling with all these mixed emotions. People say it gets easier yet here we are more than a year later and it is not any easier having to accept the end of our M but we don't have a choice. You can not hold your W back from what she feels she needs to do as she is on her own journey and needs to figure things out.

I think it's great that you are getting along better even if she doesn't make eye contact. It is hard for her to feel like this is the right thing and have to look straight in your eyes because it will tell her otherwise; same reason why my H doesn't want to see me at all.

The D decree - we'll be facing this one together. I can expect to get mine within the next 3 months. Not looking forward to going to the mailbox.

Hang tough. Continue to build a new R with your W. Continue to be the wonderful man that she'll regret losing to OW. You don't know that your family will not be back together again some day. God is working on both of you separately right now.

Strength and Honor as always.
Posted By: Jeff223 Re: Moving Forward - 04/17/07 03:23 PM
I feel very strong today; a bit sad but very positive. I sent my W draft settlement papers yesterday. It was a hard decision. It is time.

It has been 14 months since my bomb. There is no indication that she is reconsidering her path. When we first separated I thought we would be back together in a few months at most. Her life revolved around the kids and I thought “sharing” them between households would cause her to reconsider. It did not. I showed the kids a great summer and the kids asked her when I was coming home – she told them I was not. I really thought the holidays would bring us together, but no. Not spending Christmas morning with her children? Did not matter. Her mom got sick and she needed support but still no move towards me. She went to the emergency room just before Christmas with severe reaction to stress – still no second guessing. She engaged an attorney last October. My mom got sick and she hardly showed up to support her.

Along the way I was hoping and praying and I was in pain. But along the way I went from focusing on her to focusing on me and my life. I reached the top of that hill called detachment. Now I see my situation more objectively. It is time.

I still vacillate emotionally but the swings are not as pronounced; more like a kayak in a fast moving stream with challenging rapids rather than a rollercoaster.

It takes 18 months to get to trial here so it is to my advantage to move it along now that I see my situation more objectively. There is also a liberating feeling to take charge and in fact do things for me for a change. Plus I can steer the negotiations some.

The alternative is to put my life on hold another year. It was a hard decision. It is time.

She still desires a D, she has made that clear. But she does not have the fortitude to draft up the agreements. She wants to run away. She just wants me to go away. Or is it that she really does not want the D deep down? I do not believe so; I cannot read her mind so there is doubt but her actions do not support a change in her course. She *needs* the D – she just does not want to deal with the process (even though she has a lawyer). That hurts me.

So I have decided to *push* the legal D. It is what she wants, based on ALL indications and her actions; not what I THINK she MAY be feeling as she deals with her pain and MLC elements. I am still trying to affect the emotional divorce; that is different from the legal one. All I know is to support her now as best I can. Maybe the draft settlement papers will affect her. And she will have to negotiate and process the papers so that may affect her. But I really doubt it. False hope is a poison that I do not want to take again.

I still believe that I would consider trying again if she makes any indication she is willing. But trying again becomes less attractive to me as time passes.

It is time. It was a hard decision. My sun is shining.
Posted By: BaseballAnnie Re: Moving Forward - 04/17/07 06:29 PM
Hey, you sound good.

Yes, you are going to have to take the lead on this, or at least get the ball rolling. Women rarely do, unless they are lawyers or have lawyers that will push them along. Back in the day, male divorce lawyers used to do that, take that retainer and off they'd go, and before a woman knew it, she was divorced. Whoosh.

Doesn't work like that any more. Malpractice carriers have gotten quite twitchy about lawyers driving the bus. The problem is most clients can't act on what they want or can't really make a decision to pull the trigger. Doesn't mean they don't want to be divorced, they just don't as you say, want to go through the process to get there.

So it falls on those of us who are strong. It is why I sit here at this desk surrounded by paperwork for things that must be resolved before The Man Who Divorced Me and I will have separate lives again.

Sucks, but doesn't this all?

Be glad you are the one with the strength. It is a blessing.

Posted By: BeingMe Re: Moving Forward - 04/17/07 08:09 PM
I loved the imagery of the kayak battling the rapids. You sound very positive, and maybe that's because you have taken control of your life.

Keep taking care of yourself and having fun with the children!
Posted By: Jeff223 Re: Moving Forward - 04/18/07 02:34 PM
BA - I wondered why our lawyers have not been too aggressive. That explains a lot. And thanks for supporting me here.

BeingMe: thanks for stopping by. Another good thing about a kayak is that you do hit calm water and you can pull off to the side of the stream, start a fire, eat, drink and enjoy life before getting on with the trip.

W reaction to my settlement papers was very positive. Not the content since she had not read them yet, but my doing this for her. She thanked me for "working so hard on them". She said she would study them and "pray over them". She hoped we could reach a settlement. I may ask her to pray for overall guidance, not just for the settlement documents.

The cast came off S9's hand yesterday. I called to talk to him and he was thrilled. Doc said he could try baseball again and see how it goes. But the doc was very positive.

I also talked to W - she was very upbeat and her voice tone was very frinedly rather than slightly defensive as it had been. She went on and on and I had to remind her that she would be late for D6's gym calss if we continued to talk. Again maybe she was grateful about the settlement papers.

She has been more open lately: telling me about her job when we sat together at the ballgame, thanking me twice for doing the taxes, and now the settlement. Good stuff, but no expectations on my part. It hurts less for me to believe she is totally detached herself rather than looking at this as 'baby steps'.

So even though she has been warming to me recently, she must follow her road. And I will support that b/c I cannot change that - her decision.

It sure is nice being out of the dumps. I am feeling better and better about the future.

Strength and Honor.
Posted By: Jen_Jam Re: Moving Forward - 04/19/07 10:51 PM
Hey Jeff - just to drop in and say I'm still following along, even though I don't post much.
You sound in good sorts despite the slings and arrows.
I wish it were different for you, but as you say this is all W's decision. I still feel sorry for her, she's missing out. I guess some people just don't have what it takes (as in her I mean)

Anyhoo - just to say I still think about you, even though my posts are rare. Take care of yourself, you're a wonderful and caring guy. ((((Jeff))))
Posted By: princess_nic Re: Moving Forward - 04/20/07 03:34 PM
Hi Jeff,

We are in a similar position here. I was also the one who ended up saying I was ready to go ahead with the D, and then setting up the mediation appt. Like you, I'm sure that my H does want a D, he just didn't want to be the one to initiate it.

His behaviour is also odd, and I would like to think that he is regretting things, but I am not letting myself go there. He and I avoid each other when he comes over for the kids; I can hardly stand to look at him. He goes around all slumped over when I'm here, but I think that's just the remnants of guilt, or it's about the kids, but not me.

He actually put a smiley in an email to me today; he has NEVER done that! Weird. I think he's just relieved that we're getting this done.

Oh well, enough about me.

Have a good day and thanks so much for all your support,
Posted By: Just_Me Re: Moving Forward - 04/20/07 04:41 PM
I still believe that I would consider trying again if she makes any indication she is willing. But trying again becomes less attractive to me as time passes.

What part about her makes you even want to consider trying again? Her self-centeredness? Her obvious caring for the kids' welfare?-NOT. How well she handled this whole divorce that she wanted?
Posted By: Jeff223 Re: Moving Forward - 04/20/07 06:21 PM
Jenny - thanks for stopping by. I really don't have much to post since I have been content of late.

Nicola - they are weird are they not? I do believe that when they are *nice* to us it is only out of their own guilt. They want to be *friends* so they don't have to admit that they hurt us so deeply.

Just_Me: You do ask the $64,000 question. I guess at this point I would only try again b/c of my kids. But that alone is not reason to remain in a loveless M. She would have to commit to change; to change those things you mention and more. That is what so many WAS refuse to do b/c in their minds they are not a fault after all. When I read threads here and see no commitment from the WAS after say a year or more I wonder why the LBS does not move on. That is why I am moving on.

Life continues to be good. Took my mom to lunch today - she is almost completely well again. She was very alert today and she did not even need her cane. I hope her genes are in me. I was concerned about her mental sharpness so this is good to see.

After I took my mom home I was in the elevator and a very attractive older lady was talking to a friend. She mentioned her H slipped and fell and he is in bed. She mentioned that she had to take care of him and go to the dining room to get his food and bring it to him. At the end she said "but I do not mind; he is worth it"

For better or worse.

Would my stbxW say that? No. Would she now stand by me if I were hurt? No. In fact, she is the one hurting me and my kids. Others reasons you are right Just_Me.

Strength and Honor.
Posted By: BaseballAnnie Re: Moving Forward - 04/21/07 01:29 AM
Little late in the day, but...


Today your strong sense of nostalgia likely has you leaning toward all things old. If you spend the day furniture shopping, you will be drawn to antique shops rather than contemporary furniture stores. There is something about the patina that only comes with age. This applies to people as well as wooden objects, which may explain why you tend to prefer to be with people who are older than you.

Hey, you're older than me aren't you??

Do you consider yourself an antique?

Posted By: I_Still_Love_Him Re: Moving Forward - 04/21/07 05:01 PM
Late in the day or not, you can always make someone laugh. Jeff, an antique? Antiques are priceless and so is Jeff.. ;\)

Glad to hear your son's cast is off. He'll be able to enjoy playing again.

I think you are right when you say that the WAS wants to be "friends" to lessen their guilt for hurting us. No matter what the reason though, you are a much different and wiser man than you were when this all started. Your W will notice but whether she ever decides to come back is up to her just as it is up to you to move on with your life.

You sound well and I do believe we all reach a point where we finally decide it is time to live again, with or without our WAS.

I think this calls for a celebration for those of us who have made it this far and have seen the reason to live again. So, who's hosting the party?

Make it a great weekend.

Thread #7
Posted By: Jeff223 Re: Moving Forward - 04/21/07 08:48 PM
I don't know about a party but this "antique" is ready!

But first this:

I went to pick up my kids for the weekend. W asked to talk to me. She said something as happened to D6 since Easter - she is quite upset and emotional.

W: Did anything happen at Easter?
Me: No, we had dinner with my mom.
W: D6 was crying on the phone when I talked to her on Easter evening - I thought something happened. Did you hear her crying?
M: Yes, but I assumed she missed you.
W: Well I asked her about it. She started to mention Michael's dad but did not say more (Michael is a boy my son's age who lives in my apartment complex). Has the dad been alone with D6?
M: No, never. S9 is always with her and they spent very little time at Michael's place.
W: Something happened at Easter. You never know about people if alone with a young girl.
M: Well nothing happened at Easter since Michael moved three weeks prior and was not here. Only my mom was here.
W: I am sure your mom would not say anything but something upset D6. She is so distrubed about our separation all of a sudden.

Okay, before our talk went further south, I stepped in. She was crossing a boundry and I let her know it.

M: Wait one minute here. What the hell do you think is going on here? Nothing happened at my place and I am not going to let you pull some guilt trip on me. D6 is upset b/c she wants her family to be together. She cried b/c she missed you and she is acting strange b/c she is finally realizing that we are not getting back together. This is not my fault, this is what D is all about and this D is not my idea.

I walked out. How dare she imply that D6 is feeling pain and it is my fault, or the guy next store, or my mom! Everyone but her.

I was loading the truck and she came out and said she was "sorry I mentioned it, I was just trying to share, I should not have said anything, I thought you wanted me to talk". Then she cried.

M: Like I said W, I will not be subjected to any guilt trip. What do you think D is all about? This is hurting the kids and it is not my idea. S9 is hurt also but since he is older he is keeping it mostly inside.
W: S9 is not hurt. I have not noticed anything.
M: No, you would not.
W: I was not implying anything about Easter.
M: Yes you were and I will not take that. You implied the same when S9 broke his finger - like I was not taking care. I take very good care of the kids when they are with me (okay I was being defensive here). It is the D, not me. And I am not responsible for the D.
W: I know you take good care of the kids.
M: Yes, they have it better than most kids - at least their dad is here for them. Some have no dad (that is what D6 was referencing: Michael had a full time dad) and I intend to use my 40% time with them to the max. I will not walk away and abandon the kids the way your BIL did.

We sort of changed the topic after that, although I did suggest the kids may need IC. Suprisingly, she agreed. They are not the only one who needs to be checked.

I am so done with this woman. Was this good DB? Who cares - she crossed a line with that big toe and I hit it good.

You know, when I loaded the truck and drove off the anger left completely. We went to Chucky Chesse for pizza and games for three hours. Great fun.

I am so done with this woman.
Posted By: Jen_Jam Re: Moving Forward - 04/21/07 09:45 PM
Excellent stuff Jeff - I fully believe in setting boundaries and you've done a fine job there.
I assume over this you didn't raise your voice at all, that you were calm and even all through it.
GOOD for you - your W will have to realise the consequences of her actions. Yes she wants a D, that's fine, she's getting it, but you have to live with your choices. For example - I want to be slim. I can lok at my chubby tummy and say it's not fair BUT it's a consequence of me putting too much beer and pizza into it. It's like me saying "I have a slow metabolism". No I DON'T, that's just me not facing the fact I've eaten too much. Same with your W. D is never pretty, but she felt she needed it so she will have to live with those consequences. I want pizza (I'm having some in a moment) but I will accept it will mean a few hours in the gym to work it off. Your W wants the D, she will have to accept it may mean some C sessions for the kids. ARGH!!! If I could speak to her I'd take her by the shoulders and say "YOU WANTED THIS _ YOU DEAL WITH IT!!!"

Sorry - i know I'm ranting a bit and my getting fat/kids needing C is a bad analogy, I don't mean AT ALL to make light of this situation, and I am VERY sorry to hear your D6 is upset. I know you will do everything in your power to make her smile and I hope your W will rise to the challenge as well.

So - no, not bad DB'ing at all in my opinion. Once again I rise from my chair to give you a round of applause.
Posted By: BaseballAnnie Re: Moving Forward - 04/21/07 11:38 PM
Hey, Boo, she knows exactly what is up with your daughter. She's acting like puffy, blaming it on everything in the universe except the situation of her making. It's pretty classic stuff.

How can any parent face that their selfishness is causing their child pain?

They can't, therefore, they create a whole variety of excuses and project a whole bunch of blame.

You nipped in the bud, Barney, good for you...


P.S. Chucky Cheese--great for what ails ya!
Posted By: I_Still_Love_Him Re: Moving Forward - 04/22/07 08:42 PM
Hey Jeff,

I'm sorry to hear about D6 and I agree that just becuz S9 doesn't express his feelings, doesn't mean he's not hurting as well. You were absolutely right in stepping in and making your W see the reality of her actions. How dare she blame you or your Mom but then again, nothing is her fault. I just don't get it.

I am also glad that you both agree on taking the kids to IC. This may just be the wake up call your W needs, if not, at least, the kids will get some help in dealing with this. If you and your W can't live together, at least be the best co-parents for your kids. This would be a step in the right direction regardless if you get back together or not.

Being a dad for 100% of the 40% of the time you have them is more than anyone can ask for. You ARE a wonderful dad and don't let her ever cross that line.


Thread #7
Posted By: Jeff223 Re: Moving Forward - 04/23/07 03:19 PM
Thanks ladies. I guess I needed a little validation. I try to use the "don't disagree, validate, and verbal judo" techniques to disarm, find some agreement and listen when someone is challenging me, but this was too much.

No ISLH, she did not agree to IC for the kids. She agreed that they *may* need it. I think when she thinks it through she will decide there is nothing wrong after all and IC is not needed. In her mind the kids are reacting to the separation *suddenly* so it MUST be that they are being mistreated (even molested???) when with me or *something* is going on when with me. She will never face the possibility that their reactions are due to finally realizing I am not coming home (and they have asked her and she told them no I was not - I don't know what else she tells them). In her mind the kids are perfectly fine with the D, never mind the overwhelming published evidence to the contrary.

I saw W at my son's baseball game yesterday. She sort of apologized for bringing up the stuff about the kids and she tried to make small talk but I was in no mood. She finally went to visit with her divorced friend whose son was also playing. I sat away from them during the game. After the game my W again tried to engage in some conversation but I was distant - I just did not care. This goes against what I want so I feel a bit low about it. I did compliment her on her clothes at one point but that felt so phoney.

Exciting game. Our team was down 10-5 in the last inning. Eight runs later we won 13-10! Great game but my son was 0 for 3 - three strikeouts. He was down to say the least. My W went out of her way to point out that S9 would feel down - like I would not realize it. I just shook my head - no anger.

But I do wish I were more detached.
Posted By: BaseballAnnie Re: Moving Forward - 04/24/07 11:53 AM
Whatcha think about this??

April 24, 2007:

Love and romance take top priority with you today, dear Sagittarius. You might be feeling a little insecure about the stability of your current relationship, but you're wasting your energy. For now at least, things look very promising for you and your current lover; you should be communicating well and getting along great. Use your intuition to tune into your friend's mind, and you'll probably feel your doubts and uncertainties slipping away. Enjoy your day.
Posted By: WCW Re: Moving Forward - 04/25/07 07:06 PM
Jeff, you've explained that your W has always been overprotective of the kids, considered them *her* territory and left you out. She can't do that now, she has to by law share them with you. I wonder if she considers it that way. When son gets hurt or daughter is crying it is always harder to deal with over the phone than it is in person. You know, when the phone rings in the middle of the night and you dread answering it because it will not be good news? I am saying this to offer a reason for W reacting how she did, and then once the initial reaction wore off she even apologized to you. She reacted, you reacted to her reaction and set your boundaries, and she reacted to your boundary. It sounds like a good step of growth for both of you.
You do hug your kids and offer them hugs and a chance to talk with you, that's great stuff. When I read that you assumed you knew why your daughter was crying I wondered why you wouldn't just find out and hold her. It bothered me enough to ask, but does anyone else want to know?

A guy I work with is going to the Nascar race this weekend. I got to give him all my advice about traveling to AL, time, distance, and when he told me he was staying in Cullman I even advised him to pack his own beer. ;\) Felt good to sound smart. \:D
Posted By: Jeff223 Re: Moving Forward - 04/25/07 09:00 PM
BA – interesting h’scope. I am in tune with my current *lover*, all three: me, myself, and I. Truth be told, that is the only adult R I think I could handle right now.

WCW: Thanks. I know it is hard on W but what pisses me off is that they somehow think they have a right to hurt us again and again and then just say “sorry”. That does not hack it any longer (I used to preach empathy here – I guess I am just pissed now).

I agree. While she admits that I am a good dad, she has not accepted the fact that I am an equal parent here and so she does react protectively. Understandable, but too bad for her – she will just have to get with the program and learn to live with the consequences of her choices. She will in fact not always be there for our kids when they get hurt or feel hurt. She will miss things in their lives. I did not write the law. D sucks – and she may be finally realizing it.

I will not rub her face in this. This is something she needs to figure out alone and accept. But I will hammer her foot if she crosses that line; that line being if she implies I am not being a responsible father b/c she could not be there for them or b/c she disagrees with a decision I made or b/c they are feeling the affects of the separation/D. That is my boundary.

I do try to be there for the kids but I also try to keep my distance and not come between them and W. S6 told me earlier in the week that she missed mom and mom told her I was not coming home. And it was the first Easter where she was not with her mom. So, while I did assume that was the reason for crying, I thought it was a safe assumption. But my W chose to believe otherwise (something was up at my place, not the fact of D) so I guess I do need to ensure I at least ask if my kids seem sad or emotional. I will be more sensitive to that. I also think my son is hurting and while I cannot be sure I do have that feeling. I am at a loss of how to really deal with that. Again I need to be there for him should he need me but I have not brought it up.
Posted By: BaseballAnnie Re: Moving Forward - 04/26/07 12:45 PM
Jeff, WTF with all these "love" horoscopes we keep getting??

Sagittarius for Apr 26, 2007
An opportunity to collaborate with intriguing new people could blossom into something more. Just keep in mind that love sometimes chooses unusual places to start. Keep an open mind.

I agree with you, not something I could handle right now. Not sure I would even recognize it if it hit me between the eyes. But as TMWDM was so kind to point out last week, at least I'm not sleeping alone...


Posted By: faithisbelieving Re: Moving Forward - 04/27/07 12:39 AM
Still here Jeff...we talked about this. I admire how you set your boundaries. Some would be afraid that it might make their sitch worse. I think it's very much like 'the .pdf'.

Strength and honor. FIB
Posted By: JohnS58 Re: Moving Forward - 04/28/07 08:56 PM
Hi Jeff - I still check in from time to time and continue to be encouraged by what you have been writing here. I like your recent quote: "It sure is nice being out of the dumps. I am feeling better and better about the future."

Not much to report from my neck of the woods. I have been working full-time of late at a temp job. I got a nice email out of the blue from my ex the other day. She filled me in on how the animals have been doing, and opened up a bit more than she has in the past. I don't know what to read into it, or if there is anything more to it than just saying "hi" and keeping in touch. I still have this hope we might get together again some day but I'm not banking on it.

From what I have been reading on your posts you have a healthy and realistic outlook relative to your situation and are preparing to move on. I am also pumped to hear the continued good news regarding the health of your Mom.

Stay well and remain positive. You are an inspiration.
Posted By: Jeff223 Re: Moving Forward - 05/01/07 04:33 PM
Hey John: Thanks for stopping by with an update.

BA: I don't believe in H'scopes that involve love - maybe latter.

FIB: hang in there.


I am sad today. I sent W a draft settlement agreement and parenting plan. She basically rejected them: she now wants a better financial agreement over what she said before and she totally rejected the parenting provisions. Her statement about the parenting stuff essentially said: "We do not need it. I will use my judgement concerning the kids and if you disagree you can always litigate".

It is very painful to hear that your once partner does not even consider you an equal parent any longer. The kids are her life - I pity her b/c she has no other life. And to deny the kids a father as an equal co-parent? How sick.

So I guess to trial we go. Another six to nine months of this BS - we don't even have a trial date yet.

I cannot take this any longer. I so want to be done with this woman. Her response to my proposal eliminated any doubt that I should continue to try, to maintain hope, or try to *stand* any longer. I am done; DB be damned.

Time to take care of Jeff.
Posted By: BaseballAnnie Re: Moving Forward - 05/01/07 05:20 PM
She's an idiot, sorry.

She doesn't get to opt out of parenting with you, unless you are like, um, a convicted felon or something.

Do you all not have lawyers? Are these negotiations passing through lawyers?

I can't believe a lawyer is telling her she can do this.

What about mediation? Most courts now order the parties to go through mediation first, especially when there are children.

I'm not sure I understand this process you all are in...

But I will say, get your emotional reaction to what she's done out of it. Don't let that drive what you do next. Her assessment of you as a parent and what rights she thinks you have aren't relevant; it's what she can prove and what the law provides for in the face of that proof.

You are still caught up in reacting to her; instead your focus needs to be on financial and parenting arrangements that are in their best interests and consistent with the parameters of local law.

Posted By: Jeff223 Re: Moving Forward - 05/01/07 05:57 PM
Thanks BA.

Yes we both have lawyers but she suggested that we work up something "together" before we go through the lawyers. The theory was if we were in basic agreement then we could have our lawyers draw up the final papers and we avoid going to trial which may not be scheduled until next year. We would save time and money.

Sounded logical at the time, please don't beat me up too badly. I was done. I just want my half so I can start over - I don't want my life on hold for the rest of this year. Now I know where I stand and I have some thinking to do.

I am asked to sign away my parenting rights without a fight. But what fight? Who am I kidding: I am a man, I moved out, this is the South, mothers rule. A guy I know got a D here and he said he felt like a steer in a Chicago slaughterhouse when he got to court. He lost. No, she does not need to prove I am a felon or such - I must prove SHE is to win any concessions. Sad but true, even though my lawyer talks tough.

There is no mediation requirement here and it is seldom used. Lawyers are a powerful lobby here; more money to be had going to trials rather than mediation. And that is another reason you wait 18 months for a trial.

I am only emotional here. Believe me. No reaction to her: I did not even comment to her about her reply. Actually I am not angry - just sad and a bit frustrated. I just want to live again.
Posted By: BaseballAnnie Re: Moving Forward - 05/01/07 06:16 PM
Well that truly sucks. Court ordered mediation and counseling are the best way to go, especially when there are kids.

AL has always been such a quaint, dark ages kind of place. Don't drop that net down over the whole South; [censored], Georgia even manages better than that.

And I didn't mean refrain from reacting to her; I mean it's time to take emotions entirely out of your thinking about this. Separate the TERMS of your divorce from the fact that you are getting divorced. Be emotional all you want about the end of your marriage, but as for arriving at the terms under which you go forth, no emotion there.

As we often say on the MLC threads, this is business now.

That's why, once you cross the threshold into discussing the terms of a D, you hand it over to the L and let them do the negotiating.

There may come a time when you two can sit across a table and discuss this like grown-ups, but you're not there yet.

Posted By: Jeff223 Re: Moving Forward - 05/01/07 06:26 PM
Thanks again BA. Good advice. I feel better now b/c of what you said - I know I was ready to sit across from her as an adult but now I know she is not.

You are right about the South and Georgia is more progressive. I believe Gen Sherman did you a favor burning the place down. I wish he turned around and came back here and finished us too so we could start fresh.
Posted By: WCW Re: Moving Forward - 05/01/07 07:43 PM
Temple Grandin is a lady with autism that has worked with slaughterhouses, feedlots, etc. to help ease the stress on livestock to produce better quality meat. Less stress = better quality. Good stockmanship = less stress. Rather than chutes and pens being squares and corners she suggests sweeping round curves so there is no where to get stuck. Sometimes though the livestock still end up going the wrong way no matter how easy the flow goes.
Is your W like that? Regardless of how easy you make the flow of papers and agreements and take the stress out of it she will end up going the wrong way.

I try hard to offer an opinion only if it is something I have experienced. I have experienced where you are. You need to move back to YOUR home. I know you did that last fall and didn't stay so theoretically you moved out twice. Why? She is looking for a place of her own anyway, she doesn't intend to stay there. Force the issue. She lives on Easy Street courtesy of Jeff223. Why do you allow it? Show up with your truck loaded and move back in. You bet she won't like it. You bet the kids will not understand what is going on. You bet she will have to come up with answers to some tough questions. I bet she will get more agreeable and be ready to negotiate.

She still has a hold on you Jeff. You want to be done, but you still have a fear that gives her the power. Shift that power to your advantage.

Yes. It is time to take care of Jeff.
Posted By: faithisbelieving Re: Moving Forward - 05/05/07 01:24 PM
Jeff...I have to agree with WCW. She is right on the money. You have truly done all that you can to make this M work...to survive. Now she is taking a baseball bat to you.

As you know, recently, Alec Baldwin's cell phone call was made public. It is a HORRIBLE call that he made to her daughter who is only 12 years old. I am abhorred by it. No father should talk to their daughter that way.

But who released the phone call?
Why was the phone call released?

Although I don't support his behavior, Mr. Baldwin is currently writing a book called Parental Alienation....about how one parent withdraws the children from the other parent, puts up barriers to see them, and then destroys their character both to friends and to the kids.

Don't let that happen Jeff. I stand with WCW.

Your friend,
Posted By: BeingMe Re: Moving Forward - 05/05/07 05:15 PM
Unfortunately, some parents use that 'parent alienation' law when there is no alienation taking place. Such as is happening to one of our message board members, Laughing. I take everything to do with celebrities with a pinch of salt. After all, Mr. Baldwin is an actor, and he is trying really hard to come up with an excuse as to why he would say those things, or maybe he is really truthful. How can we, the public, know for sure, one way or the other (and why should we care ... sounds like they had a really explosive R, and we cannot judge). So, I say, "none of our business ... hope he works it out ... whoever released that tape was vindictive, but so was he ... poor kid!"

Just remember, Jeff, no matter what your W does, you will be okay, in the long run. Take care.
Posted By: faithisbelieving Re: Moving Forward - 05/05/07 06:02 PM
I agree with being me..but..it happens. I saw a doc in the changing room in tears..years ago...during a D process....found out the W didn't invite him to his D's birthday.

Stay strong.

Posted By: neli Re: Moving Forward - 05/06/07 02:08 AM
Jeff, I am not completely up to date with yout situation. How often do you see your kids now? What are the terms of your separation at the time?

Posted By: Jen_Jam Re: Moving Forward - 05/06/07 11:25 AM
I don't have any useful advice to add, but I'm just amazed your STBXW is still hitting you. How much anger and hatred is she holding on to? I still feel so sorry for her, she's a mess.

I hope common sense prevails and you do get to see your children regularly. I wish there was something I could do or say to help \:\(
Posted By: princess_nic Re: Moving Forward - 05/06/07 08:43 PM

I am so disappointed in your W's selfish behaviour. This is absurd. After all the time and effort that you put into those plans, I can't believe that she would dismiss them out of hand. Where I live, even though I will have full custody, we MUST make ALL decisions re. the kids together - even down to daycamps and afterschool acitivities! Of course, they can sleep over at his GF's apt every w/e, but that's another story.

You may find that in the year + it takes to get a court date, things will calm down enough for the two of you to be able to come to an agreement. I hope so.

~ Nicola
Posted By: Jeff223 Re: Moving Forward - 05/07/07 01:57 PM
I get the kids every Thurs and every other Fri - Sun; 10 days out of 30. We alternate holidays and I get them more in the summer so it works out to about 40/60. This is ordered by the court for every pending D; it was not worked out between W and I.

I want to say 40/60 sucks.

But it was worse here not very long ago: every other Fri and Sat - 4 days a month. But the "father lobby" has had an effect since the judges are elected. The judge I got is as pro-dad as I could get. He is responsible for this new "visiting" schedule and he talks to father's groups. But the woman is still in the driver's seat. I love the term "visitation" BTW, makes me feel like an empowered father.

As WCW points out I effectively moved out twice so now my chances of getting anything other than this schedule are slim. My lawyer says the judge likes to award 50/50 if he can so he can show pro-dad groups a record at election time. However, a judge will normally do what the children have been doing if there has been no ill effects. So, if the kids have been on this schedule for a year and the kids are doing okay (and that is true, W is not a bad mom in the legal sense) the judge will say why change it. This is a safe legal position for him as it is best not to impact the kids.

It sucks.

So, I was willing to basically accept this schedule if she would agree to minor changes and some clauses in the parenting plan to ensure just b/c it is 40/60 I am still a parent - not a "visitor" (joint legal custody is not a given here either). This judge did issue some parenting provisions but they are not all inclusive. I wanted more protection so I do not have to take her back to court each time we disagree. But she tossed it back in my face. Like I said - she is in the driver's seat. Do I spend $15,000 to $25,000 on a trial or just accept the fact I am screwed?

It sucks.

Can I move back in? My W would file to get me removed and I would be tossed out faster than rotting fish. I have been gone a year. It matters not I did it for her and the kids (okay, I also did it to try to get her to reconsider). She will claim I abandoned her.

I gambled and lost.

I feel screwed and very angry again. Not a nice feeling. But that is how it has been lately. Screwed and life sucks. Bend over Jeff. SMACK!!!

Thank you sir, may I have another?
Posted By: WCW Re: Moving Forward - 05/07/07 02:30 PM
Jeff, are you giving up? are you accepting that life is not fair and just saying "oh well, I gambled and lost, stick me up the butt and put me over the fire." That is not you Jeff. Use your anger, direct it and make it a positive force for you.
Can I move back in? My W would file to get me removed and I would be tossed out faster than rotting fish. I have been gone a year. It matters not I did it for her and the kids (okay, I also did it to try to get her to reconsider). She will claim I abandoned her.
Are those facts? Prove it to me and everyone else that those are facts and not assumptions. I don't know Alabama law, but I need proof you are correct in those statements. Then follow that one step further. What if she did file to get you removed? Do you get a chance to state why you want/need to live there? Among all the other reasons one more is that you need to save $25000 for the trial. It is YOUR place, yours before the M. What does that fact state in Alabama law?
if the kids have been on this schedule for a year and the kids are doing okay (and that is true, W is not a bad mom in the legal sense) the judge will say why change it.
Ok, so that is why your W is keeping notes, insinuating that something is going at your apartment with the kids, ohsoconcerned about injuries - all your fault. Be careful friend. You're being a target and she is collecting ammunition.

Focus on the horizon, not the dips and holes on the way.
Stand up straight Jeff. If nothing else it makes it easier getting the rod in.
Posted By: Jeff223 Re: Moving Forward - 05/07/07 03:53 PM
Thanks WCW. I cannot say these are 'facts' b/c the judge can do anything he wants (that is a fact).

All I have are probabilities. My lawyer knows the judge well (he hears 75% of the D cases) and D is all my lawyer does. My lawyer said my W had a 30% chance of kicking me out last time. Now it is over 50% b/c I vacillated. So I spend several thousand to go through a preliminary hearing given these odds? No thanks.

And what happens when the kids find out mom went to court to get dad kicked out? Do you think I trust her not to tell them?

Having the house before I was married does not matter. The law states where the parties regularly use property acquired before marriage for the common benefit of the parties, it is considered joint property. Also in AL, W can be awarded 'use and possession' of the home for a period of time or for her life. I can lose the house PLUS pay her child support.

Don't think this can happen? Remember our friend AV8R? His judge gave him 14 days to clear out and he did not even move out of his house first! He lost his house and 60% of his income went to her. Check his 9/6/05 posts - he lives in the town down the road but to be fair he is in a different court district and had a different judge.

No, I am screwed and nothing is going to change that. Giving up or facing reality? That is always a good question on this BB. Please keep me honest.
Posted By: WCW Re: Moving Forward - 05/08/07 03:23 AM
I don't know Jeff, what happens when the kids find out mom went to court to kick dad out? what will mom tell the kids?

I remember AV8R well, are you in touch with him? I'd love to hear from him, know how he is doing. I still think his L was sleeping during court. How did he get to a D so fast, she filed in June/July and all over in Sept/Oct? That was a flashback to read those posts again. Maybe someday I'll have the courage to read my own again.

Check six. ;\)
Posted By: faithisbelieving Re: Moving Forward - 05/08/07 12:44 PM
OMG JEFF.....I am reading ME in AV8R's post. You've been with me since day 1, look:

Originally Posted By: AV8R
These days when she takes a shower she locks the bathroom door. There was a time we would shower together or at least she was comfortable to shower while I was in the bathroom shaving. No more I will give her space, however.

Originally Posted By: AV8R
She has been the Ice Queen ever since, getting colder by the day. Perhaps she is distancing herself from me so she doesn't feel the guilt so badly when I'm packing to leave.

Originally Posted By: AV8R
I honestly don't see a positive outcome for our R. She has moved on emotionally and I'm just an unwelcome visitor. Unless she has a change of heart soon, I'll be moving on physically as well as emotionally.

Originally Posted By: AV8R
But it has really gotten hard to take during the last few weeks as she gets more and more distant. And I find that she misinterprets things that I say or do even more than before.

Didn't mean to hijack your thread, Jeff, but, I am going to read that old thread in depth....I am captivated by it. Who was AV8R. He seemed like a great guy. Frank
Posted By: Jeff223 Re: Moving Forward - 05/08/07 01:52 PM
Yes FIB. And I read myself too, not just b/c AV8R is from my neck of the woods. And the most disturbing thing of all is that his xW remarried 63 days after the D was final - by law here you have to wait 60 days. He did not suspect that his W was having an affair. He was DB his butt off while all the while W knew EXACTLY what she was doing to dump him after taking him to the cleaners.

No WCW, I have no contact with AV8R other than he posted to me once. He did find a lady friend and last I saw she was waiting on her own D - it take so long here. Yes, his lawyer may have been asleep at the switch but it confirms how the process here is tailored for the mom to screw the dad.

How did he get a D so quickly? She filed for a preliminary hearing to get his butt kicked out of the house. You can get a hearing within 6 to 8 weeks. After he got kicked out, AV8R settled out of court.

Like I said - do I feel I am quiting or just facing a bad reality?
Posted By: WCW Re: Moving Forward - 05/09/07 02:12 PM
Jeff, are you sliding? on the down side of the teeter? I feel the same feeling this week.

I wouldn't say you are quitting, maybe it is a bad reality. If it were me I would not be as ready to just accept the tradition of mom/courts slaughtering dad. It may still be the south, but if I had your shoes on I would keep looking for a better way. Part of my personality flaw of not giving up.

I had a halfa$$ed job offer in Arkansas. I think I'll take it and then in southern court I should get the world on a silver platter from H right? Life would be good, all my problems solved.
Posted By: neli Re: Moving Forward - 05/10/07 02:28 AM
Any way she would agree for you to have every other Monday night after her weekend? This way you don't go a whole week without seeing the kids. I would definitely ask for that. I would ask the judge for that, because it is not fair to the kids not to see you for the whole week.

Posted By: JohnS58 Re: Moving Forward - 05/10/07 03:11 AM
Hello Jeff - I have been reading the latest and I really feel bad for you. I often wonder why feminists claim America is a patriarcal society. Still I know from reading these boards that there are a lot of good women out there, real sweathearts who are also being screwed over by oblivious spouses in the throws of mid-life crisis or some other self centered neurosis. Utimately gender doesn't really matter in these situations - unless it pertains to issues of child visitation and shared parenting rights. Then the courts seem to bend bass-ackwards in favor of the Mom. You're right, it does suck and it sounds to me like you have tokened the odds and ultimately nothing would be impacted except for the hit on your wallet from legal fees. I only hope your W comes to her senses at some point in time and realizes, like we do, that you are a fine and responsible father (and remain a responsible husband). You are a man of honor and the fine folks who support you on this thread (with the possible exception of myself) are also honorable. Life can be unfair and at times cruel but you have shown you can handle it and move on with grace and dignity. I do realize how much you would like to get this over with but that's our court system for you. It's still better than Sh'ria law although as a guy I sometimes fantasize about what it would be like to live under it. I pity the poor wife who did not make falafal to my exacting specifications. I hope the rest of this week goes better for you. Any plans to forget about this for a while and enjoy yourself?
Posted By: Jeff223 Re: Moving Forward - 05/11/07 01:43 PM
Bless your heart neli. You don't think it is right that a dad not see his kids for a whole week? I could kiss you.

I suggested a revised schedule to stbx. The answer was NO! See you in court. And the judge is not likely to change the "standard" schedule.

So it goes. Thanks for the support neli.
Posted By: Jeff223 Re: Moving Forward - 05/11/07 01:44 PM
Thanks for sticking with me John. It means so much.
Posted By: Jeff223 Re: Moving Forward - 05/11/07 01:57 PM
Hey all. Today, 11 May, is my one year anniversary of being in my apartment. I originally signed a six month lease. It appears I will not be leaving here any time soon. \:\(

Hey Paul (TNP), if you are still with me remember we moved out about the same time and you said it would take four months and I said six??? LOL.

I have given up talking to stbx. I know, bad on my part but that is how I feel.

About the settlement: I emailed her I saw no reason to meet with her about it and that we leave it to the lawyers. She wrote back that she "understood" and that she was "sorry". I intend to write back that no bit*h, you do not understand nor are you sorry. If you were you would work toward a fair settlement and you would be moving out of the house you don't intend to keep. Instead her only desire is to inflict maximum pain.

Okay I will leave the B-word out.

Yes WCW, I am sliding. I so want this just to end. But more punishment is due; perhaps I earned it.

Strength and Honor.
Posted By: WCW Re: Moving Forward - 05/11/07 08:34 PM
But more punishment is due; perhaps I earned it.
blah blah blah, knock it off Jeff. Yes I can say that, because you tell me the same thing when I get negative about myself. \:o

I don't know how you stay in that apartment. I really don't. As much work and grief as it is for me to even attempt to keep up with my place, it is what keeps me sane too.

When I sink, I go back to basics, back to the land. What are you doing Jeff? Here's my sermon again...are you getting out? are you staying busy? physical and active and getting tired so you sleep good? Did you look up some local groups to join that have your favorite interests?

Pardon me for forgetting, but is mediation an option with W? She must be aware of Alabama courts and figures she's better off letting it go to court where she is sure to have the upper hand. But Jeff, what is her motivation behind dragging her feet? For a woman who wants to be rid of you, why not help the system?

Chin up.
Posted By: TNP Re: Moving Forward - 05/12/07 08:58 AM
Hey Jeff,

Sorry to hear what been going on, some closure would be nice. Luckily for me my w has not brought up the d word, unluckily that only means this sit. is ongoing. W seems to think she doesn't need a d. We can d when one of us finds someone the want to marry. She personally doesn't plan on remarrying again.

This could change anytime though.

No real advise for you except to keep standing up for your kids and yourself. You have probably come to the same conclusion as I have. I do not need to have my w in my life. I have lived happily without her before I met her and I have had happy times without her during this sit.

I have to admit I still think of her and the sit. daily.
But given that she is having om round regularly on weekends lately has made me go dark for my own sanity.

Am tempted to file myself so as to force the settlement, something that will not be instigated by her I believe.

My strategy now is to just get on with my life. Be the best dad I can. Let w come to me. Sometimes I think the mlc stuff is wishful thinking on my part and w is gone for good. Other times I think it's her mlc and I'm just a silent, enabling witness to it.

Will add latest going on to my thread over the weekend..

Take care of yourself and your family.
Posted By: princess_nic Re: Moving Forward - 05/12/07 05:37 PM
Jeff -

There's something I'm still not getting here, and I think your laws must be different. In Quebec (not sure about rest of Canada), custody is based solely on how much time a parent spends with the kids. Thus, I will have sole custody b/c I will have them more than 70% of the time. However, that means absolutely nothing in reality, in terms of decision-making (parental authority). I cannot even move away w/o their father's permission.

Are custody and parental authority the same thing in AL?

40/60 is really not bad. Realistically, if you are working, it's not much different than 50/50.

As for your email to her, you're not really going to send it are you? What's the point? It won't help your case. I always find that when I do stuff like that, I feel better in the moment, but worse afterwards b/c I've lowered myself to where my stbx is.

Take care, friend,
Posted By: Jeff223 Re: Moving Forward - 05/12/07 06:34 PM
No, there is a difference. We have four categories, pick one from the first two and one from the second two:

Sole physical custody.
Joint physical custody.

Sole legal custody.
Joint legal custody.

If that is not complex enough, joint physical custody does not necessarily mean 50 - 50. We can still have 40/60 and it can still be classified as "joint". What that means is anyone's guess.

Sole legal means one parent makes all the decisions. Unless it is spelled out otherwise, the parent with sole custody can do just about anything, even move away.

Joint legal means both parents have "equal" rights in all decisions. BUT, unless you have a parenting plan of some sort, the court can and usually does appoint one parent with the final say if there is not agreement and that is usually the mother. So we can have joint legal and physical custody in words while in effect the court can give the mom final decision authority and more time with the kids - effectively making things sole custody.

The policy of AL states that joint legal and physical custody is preferred but it goes on to say that the court only need "consider" it - the court can "award any form of custody which is determined to be in the best interest of the child".

As you can see the law leaves a lot of room for the court. That is good b/c there is hope for the dad but in reality the law is written one way but in practice it is executed in another.

It is bad b/c mothers enjoy a clear preference here. As a practical matter, a father wishing to establish custody over the objections of the mother almost has to prove she's done something wrong in her parenting.

My email to her: I will send some form of it. But you are correct to point out it will do little good. But telling her how I feel is never wrong as long as I don't attack her. If I attack - that will be down at her level. She does not have the guts to tell me how she feels - I get only her anger.

I hope you get out of your bad news period soon. We have to hit bottom many times before we can finally get clear of the pit.
Posted By: princess_nic Re: Moving Forward - 05/12/07 09:42 PM
Thanks Jeff.

I'm just waiting to hear that they're moving in together at this point.

Okay, now I see where you're coming from re. if you don't agree on things. I still thing that if it's going to be so long till court, she may soften up before then, even if it's only to make things go quicker.

~ Nicola
Posted By: Jeff223 Re: Moving Forward - 05/14/07 03:32 PM
Enough about settlements and such.

I sent her a "Happy Mother's Day" email yesterday. I told her she was an excellent mother to our children. I said I hoped her mom was well. I said I would look again at the "paperwork". I wished her a good week.

Why? Because it was the right thing to do for me.

I had an excellent weekend. You should have seen my apartment: no food, clothes piled high, and dust everywhere. Not now!!

I feel so good today I can spit in Satan's eye. Hope this mood lasts a little longer this time.

Strength and Honor.
Posted By: WCW Re: Moving Forward - 05/15/07 11:52 PM
No responses here? you got leprosy too?

Nice job. Feel good being on the high road? Youdaman.
Posted By: I_Still_Love_Him Re: Moving Forward - 05/16/07 02:00 AM

The great mood you're in can last longer if you want it bad enough. It is up to you to make it happen. See yourself being happy and others will see it too.

I like the fact that you did acknowledge Mother's Day, afterall she is the mother of your children regardless of your sitch. Women like to be complimented. She will remember all the good things you do for her even if she won't acknowledge it.

As for the amount of time you have the kids, I always believe that it is not how much time you spend with them but how you spend it. I know people who have their kids for more time than you do but the kids spend more time in front of the TV than with the parent. Make the moments count when they are around.

Posted By: faithisbelieving Re: Moving Forward - 05/18/07 05:30 PM
Jeff...just stopping in for a little hello. I admire that you had the strength to push thru and do the Mother's Day thing. I went dark on that day..mostly because she told me that she wanted it dark.

I get sullen reading the last few posts...about custody. In my last meeting, my atty. told me to stay in the house....that I should be custodian and that I should also fight for custody. Although I believe his feelings and that he supports me, I really can't think of the State of NY awarding me custody. I've been told that a mom has to be a down and out drug dealer, busted, or something similar. Think MLC, an affair and talking to dead people and a psychic will hold up?

I hope that last line keeps you smiling and perpetuates your PMA. :-)

Strength and honor.

Posted By: princess_nic Re: Moving Forward - 05/18/07 10:53 PM
I hope you're still feeling good, Jeff. You did the right thing with Mother's Day if it felt right to you.

You are a good guy, through and through.

~ Nicola
Posted By: BaseballAnnie Re: Moving Forward - 05/18/07 11:13 PM
I hope you are enjoying this gorgeous weather we are having in the Southland. It's nearly perfect.

Bring the kids over for a Braves game!

Posted By: Jeff223 Re: Moving Forward - 05/20/07 08:33 PM
Yes it has been beautiful weather down in Dixie. Cooler than normal and clear blue skies.

I had a very good week but the weekend was difficult for me. I had to see stbx at the ballgame Saturday and at church today.

I am doing so much better when I do not have to see her. When I see her and especially when she tries to be nice, I feel like vomitting. My anger and hate return big time. Just leave me alone.

I said little at the game and I sat apart from her. She wanted to talk - I did not. I am through with her and until forgiveness kicks back in (it was there last year but no more), I choose not to associate with a person who is intentionally hurting me and my kids.

Same at church. I had quit the church since it was too painful seeing her and her praying to God for the blessings in her life. How it is okay for her to divorce. Turns my stomach. But I needed to take S9 there today (my weekend with the kids) so I went. stbx sat next to us. What a farce - all together (D6 was with me too) like all the other families.

One interesting thing is that she gained weight. She had really slimmed down when she dropped the bomb but now she has gained it back and more (I had not seen her in a month). I read where ISLH's H gained weight and she took it as a positive sign that his life was in the toilet and that he may be inching home. I took my stbx weight gain the same way: her new rosy life is apparently not so rosy after all. And I smiled, shame on me.

She is not inching back. Even if she were, I have no desire to take her back any longer.

MMO left this on nicola's thread. It applies here.

Originally Posted By: MotherMovingOn
It didn't take much to remind me what a selfish, self serving man he is. he will not change in those deep ways and therefor our dynamic will never change. I know that if we were to reconcille all the things that made me unhappy before would still be there only now it would be worse because of the pain he has left in his wake and my new found resolution not to live with someone again who thinks of nothing but his own happiness. There's just no way for it ever to work between he and I again--for me this practical look helps me move on.
Posted By: faithisbelieving Re: Moving Forward - 05/21/07 03:23 PM
Sounds familiar. FIB
Posted By: I_Still_Love_Him Re: Moving Forward - 05/21/07 04:08 PM
Jeff...Seems like your W is trying hard to be nice now that you have become distant. It's funny how the tables have turned. I remember when you were the one trying to be nice to her.
Even if she were, I have no desire to take her back any longer.
You are hurt and it is natural to feel this way right now. You have now put up walls around you and closed your heart for fear of getting hurt again so you have buried those feelings you once had but I know they are still there. That is okay. Do what feels right for you right now. As in many cases, the LBS eventually becomes the WAS. I've seen this so many times and wonder how many M could be saved if we all didn't let pride get in the way.

Saying that you have no desire to take her back ANY LONGER means you can predict how you will feel in the future. Do not let resentment and anger set in for too long as it will only affect the way YOU feel and may hurt other R you will have.

I choose not to associate with a person who is intentionally hurting me and my kids.
I do not believe she intentionally wants to hurt you and the kids that is why she wants it to appear as though everything is great. Yes, she wants her cake and eat it too. She wants her freedom and yet wants a sense of family when it suits her. Yes, she is getting everything she wants right now and she is comfortable because she knows you are still waiting for her. Would she still feel the same if there was a FF sitting with you watching your son's game?

You are the better person by not causing conflict as it will only hurt the kids if you were not treating their mother with respect.

You are doing well and only time will tell what the future holds. Let God unfold his plan.

Posted By: TNP Re: Moving Forward - 05/22/07 05:55 AM
Hey Jeff,

Watch the resentments they are killers. Feel the anger but try not do anything when you are caught up in it. Easier said than done I know.

Crazy as it sounds I'm starting to enjoy my freedom. I have left the door open to the W but she is the one who must walk through it.

Good luck,
Posted By: RonJon Re: Moving Forward - 05/22/07 09:24 AM
Jeff, Thanks for posting on my thread and have caught up with your sitch. It's hard for LBS to turn off the "trust" switch but that's what we need to do especially during the proceedings of a big D. See what you mean now about preferring no contact. At least for me it's just e-mails and the occasional phone call because of the distance between us, would not want to be in the same town for certain.

Would say to watch out for the anger/hate stuff. Can't really stop the feelings from hitting, but need to let them just wash over and leave, not hold on to, which invariably leads people down the wrong road. My 2 cents anyway. RonJon
Posted By: Astimegoeson Re: Moving Forward - 05/22/07 10:23 AM
Originally Posted By: Jeff223
One interesting thing is that she gained weight. She had really slimmed down when she dropped the bomb but now she has gained it back and more (I had not seen her in a month). I read where ISLH's H gained weight and she took it as a positive sign that his life was in the toilet and that he may be inching home. I took my stbx weight gain the same way: her new rosy life is apparently not so rosy after all. And I smiled, shame on me.


My stbx is the same. She slimmed way down and was looking better than I had seen her in years when she dropped the bomb. She has to be at least 20 lbs heavier than she was this time last year. Not only that, she has this washed out, hung out to dry look about her. She looks as thought she's not getting enough sleep.

Really a 180 in the wrong direction for her. Don't know if it's not because things aret turning out for her or not, but it's interesting that I've heard that drastic change in appearance affecting our WAS.
Posted By: Jeff223 Re: Moving Forward - 05/22/07 03:59 PM
Thanks guys and ISLH. Yes I am hurt and I am full of hate right now. Need to get back on track. I am above that. Anger has its place but resentment does not. Staying distant is different from treating her with distain when we do need to communuicate.

She knows my buttons too well. The emotional tide comes and goes. The trial continues. I will see it through with Strength and Honor.
Posted By: Jeff223 Re: Moving Forward - 05/22/07 05:52 PM
I wanted to re-post this here for future reference.

Originally Posted By: always_14
Nicola, your thread, as usual, spawns great insight to what many of us are starting to focus upon....what is a healthy R?

You and your H have different versions, standards and expectations of M, R and mutual growth.

Your H cannot give you what you need in a R/M. You can either lower your standards and be unhappy, unfulfilled and low self-esteem.....or find that within and perhaps in someone else again.

I definately feel for your thoughts of "will I find love again." I went through that early this year, and even expressed those feelings to H. I told him my greatest fear was that I could not love like I loved him.

Since then, I have let that go without even trying. I see now that I loved H, very much, but I think that I can do that again. And, perhaps with someone more healthy, compatible, and find a deeper love....more than the superficial, passionate, crazy love. It was deep in areas, but when tough times came, here I am.
Posted By: RonJon Re: Moving Forward - 05/23/07 08:25 AM
Ironically, my ex did the same weight loss thing at bomb time and now has gained it back and more and seems even more crabby than before. While I on the other hand was overweight at bomb time but in the months following due to poor cooking and lack of appetite dropped about 30 pounds, have since gained back 10 and stabilized, at my best physique since pre-marriage 24 yrs ago.

It does make a person smile. \:\) RonJon
Posted By: princess_nic Re: Moving Forward - 05/24/07 01:12 AM
That was a great post from Always, wasn't it? It really helped me to put things into perspective also.

Jeff, there are times that you will feel angry, times that you will feel resentful, times that you will feel forgiving, times that you will feel love. These are just feelings, and so are transient. They will come and go, like the tide. When it's high tide for one of those bad feelings, it seems like the tide will never go out again--but it will.

Do what you can to let go of the bad feelings, if only b/c they hurt you more than they hurt stbx, but then accept what remains for what it is - a sign of your humanity.

~ Nicola
Posted By: faithisbelieving Re: Moving Forward - 05/26/07 12:38 PM
N.U.T.S.......you know what that means Jeff.

Anger, OK. Process it. Feel it. Stay in control.
Resent, no.
I am doing as you, proceeding with my changes and preparing for something new in my future.

Make it so.

Posted By: neli Re: Moving Forward - 05/27/07 07:18 PM
how many M could be saved if we all didn't let pride get in the way.

I am not sure how much of it is pride vs fear of ending up in the same place again. I feel we all have tried so many times even before the final bomb dropped. So how do we know the next time is just not yet another time.

Jeff, process your anger and move on. Holding on to it will just hurt you in the long run. You don't have to be happy for her, just detached. \:\)

Posted By: Jeff223 Re: Moving Forward - 05/29/07 04:48 PM
Almost time for a new thread. Nothing new to report, just posting.

Anger is gone. Took off Friday and went to a nearby lake. It was nice; good thinking spot. Only a handful of people there fishing (or trying too - no one was catching anything).

Time to fully accept my M is over and that I need to be a real man and work the D to closure. A real man does not hate so I choose not to hate her any longer. A real man does not deny reality. A real man moves foward always.

I still feel a touch of frustration for what might have been and a touch of fear about starting new (and dating!!) at my point in life.

Also I am sad for me and the kids but there is nothing I can do but damage control by being the best man I can.

So back to feeling strong. Planning our vacation for mid next month. Kids want to return to the Smoky Mts in Tenn again - sounds good to me.

Strength and Honor.
Posted By: WCW Re: Moving Forward - 05/29/07 06:54 PM
I wanna go fishing.
I wanna go to the Smoky Mtns.

Hey, there's a thread devoted to figuring out what you sound like. How about you tell us if it's more like
a) John Wayne
b) Mr Ed
c) Mickey Mouse

I am trying to imagine MM with a southern draaawwwwllll.
A real man will tell us. ;\)

Glad you are up.
Posted By: Jen_Jam Re: Moving Forward - 05/29/07 07:17 PM
When one door closes another door opens.

Many people spend their time looking at the closed door and missing what's behind it. Others look at the new door but are too afraid to open it. Some open the new door.

Jeff, I know you will get to opening that new door. Don't be afraid of what's behind it. I actually feel there is a lady out there who is going to benefit SO MUCH from your company. OK, you may not feel like finding her yet but one day .. there's one lucky lady out there.
Posted By: cherrishher Re: Moving Forward - 05/29/07 07:46 PM

My old friend - it's so good to see you with such a positive attitude about what life holds for you. My friend, you've made it - now it's time to start living again.

Best wishes for the future! You are (in my book) definitely a winner for having come through this having tried your damndest to make things right. You should rest easy in knowing that.

Take care,
Posted By: BeingMe Re: Moving Forward - 05/29/07 07:55 PM
You sound good, Jeff! Keep doing what you're doing.

Take care! \:\)
Posted By: faithisbelieving Re: Moving Forward - 05/29/07 11:08 PM
Jeff...going back to 'old techniques'. Yes Jeff...to hate your W....would be 'wimpy'. 4kids talked to me about resentment and guilt. Bah.....wimpy.

Who you were years ago when you met your W...is not who you are now. Your 'life history' was not the same. Your 'life experience' was not the same. The 'life knowledge' you've amassed....is greater.

The unknown is scary Jeff. It's a tough game to play. The strategy is different. I hope we can exchange 'game books'.

Your buddy, Frank
Posted By: princess_nic Re: Moving Forward - 05/29/07 11:35 PM
Jeff -

I'm right where you are, my friend. I am working on turning that fear into excitement!!

Yay!! I get to start over with someone new!!! \:D

Okay - I tried, lol!
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