I was starting to feel frustration building again, so I decided to initiate another discussion with H on Friday night. Robx's recent post in our forum motivated me to spell it all out again, clearly, more blatant, once and for all.
I told H that I'm having difficulty coping with the fits and starts in our progress, and that I'm terrified of damaging our R further by saying or doing anything that will make him feel like a failure. I told him that I'm living in fear that I'll reach the end of my rope. I told him that his inaction is causing me to lose hope, and that not only does it make it very hard for me to "shake my tail feathers," but it infuriates me. I told him that our situation is now urgent, because my patience is worn thin.
H said that he wants it too, and that he is just having a hard time keeping up with life in general [sidenote: this is likely a symptom of his low testosterone]. He feels that sometimes I "build a wall" when I'm silent or preoccupied, and he takes that to mean that I don't want to be close with him. I told him that he is welcome to break through that wall at any time, because it really isn't there. I told him that I NEEDED him to break through it during those times when it seems I'm unavailable. When it seems I have a wall up, it is because I am stewing that he hasn't approached me or initiated in a long time, and I'm feeling that *once again* I have to send big loud signals, essentially initiate, in order for him to come forward.
There was much more to the talk, but the above is a basic recap. I think that I said everything that needed to be said. If he ends up a LBS one day, he will know exactly why he ended up there.
On Saturday morning, he initiated - playful, perfect. I don't know if I mentioned this in earlier posts... H has experienced intermittent ED through the years. He tends to lose his erection if we play around and change positions, especially with a condom (he needs more friction than condoms allow). Viagra works, but he doesn't have a current prescription and he really hates taking it and hasn't for a few years. Much improvement is seen with regular exercise, which he hasn't kept up with.
Well... I wanted to change positions, and since we haven't experienced the ED for a long time, I didn't even think about it. The cause was likely the combination of being off balance by our talk the night before and the condom.
He was devastated and angry with his body. I tried to explain that I don't care about that (I really, really don't) because we can have all kinds of fun without the garden variety sex scene that ends in Os through penetration. He had a hard time believing me because it is important to him to have a "successful" encounter (successful to him is defined as penetration ending in Os for both). I tried to explain that I don't always need penetration, and that the closeness alone feels so good, and that orgasms can happen in lots of ways.
We messed around in other ways, but he was so intensely driven to make me O, that I couldn't relax so I couldn't. I tried to explain that there is a better way to have sex that isn't orgasm-focused. And, If he could just relax and enjoy it without worrying about the mechanics, it would probably happen on its own anyway. He was just too frustrated to listen. He said that he knows it is because he is overweight, sedentary, and in his 40s. He is angry that his penis has "special needs" and he thinks that it should just work. He really wasn't being kind to himself.
I also mentioned that we need to try another method of birth control. I'll be looking into that today.
I am worried that H is easily discouraged by the orange cones that have to be navigated. Nevertheless, I'll continue pushing through the static.
Lucky
Good morning, Lucky;
I
absolutely applaud your efforts, and in particular, your attitude about his middle-age encounters with ED. As you've already read from me, I know first hand how hard it is for both the woman and the man when
erections are no longer automatic or something to be taken for granted. I'm waiting to see what happens when the weather warms up again (I suspect that like DQ's man, overheating may have an effect on me in that regard), but over the past winter, the problems that I was having last year with occasional ED have gone into complete 'remission.' So the problem can be 'fixed,' and in a realatively short amount of time (several weeks to a few months) if the two of you tackle it early and with the right attitudes.
As the wife, your attitude is SPOT ON what it needs to be right now. Thank you!
Your husband, on the other hand, is still reeling from the blow to his masculinity, and letting himself get caught up in performance anxiety. What's worse, this is one of those problems that is self-perpetuating: the more he worries about it, the more likely it is to occur. Speaking from personal experience, that -really is- a vicious circle that is hard to get untangled from.
I can make two suggestions, for now:
(1) Get him to read the applicable portions of:
The New Male Sexualityby
Bernie ZilbergeldWhich would be all chapters up to Section that begins addressing specific sexual problems, and from there, the chapter specific to ED. I know that I sound like a broken record in recommending that book, but it is quite good at giving men a REALISTIC view of their own sexual equipment and sexuality, rather than the myths and unattainable standards that nearly all men are held up to --> by themselves, their peers, and, often, their wives.
(2) If he's not already, get him to start taking a good quality, men's multi-vitamin supplement each day, and then add to that a specific Zinc & Magnesium supplement. Quoting from this website on
Testosterone Boosting Supplements:
"Studies have shown that supplementing with 30mg of Zinc and 450mg of Magnesium per day can elevate testosterone levels up to 30%" (believe at your own risk). I've tried it, and although it took a week or two initially, I have had some 'success' just with s simple, over the counter Zinc-Magnesium supplement, without going to any of the fancier and more expensive supposed 'Testosterone Supplements.' I'll admit that it may be entirely placebo effect, but there has also been a noticeable increase (or restoration) in the number of spontaneous and nocturnal erections. Put this in the 'potentially helpful, but harmless' catagory, as long as he doesn't go overboard or get silly with it.
That said, however, the kind of ED that he is experiencing is
80-90% Mental. During a particular sexual encounter, it may start with the physical, such as lack of adequate stimulation, leading to loss of arousal, but from there it QUICLY snowballs into performance anixiety and further loss of arousal.
As I've written before, his being able to RELAX and get back into the enjoyment of the moment, the enjoyment of the connection with you is absolutely key. It is hard to do, especially with some worry or fear in the back of his head -- and takes practice and patience to overcome.
For me, it's taken over a year of working with our therapist to finally have the -occasional- sexual encounter where I can shed all of my worries about her enjoyment, my performance, and the like, and truly just let go and live in that moment, letting my passion take me (and us) where it will. Such encounters are occurring more frequently now, but it has required a complete paradyne shift on my part -- not easy stuff.
-- B.
Lucky, that sounds great! It sounds like you both touched upon several different areas of the whole topic which needed to be addressed (again).
The one thing I don't think you said in your post was, did you make him understand that you would eventually be a WAW? You hinted at it, but did you really make it known? I am sorry to beat that drum again, but I just think it is important in everyone's sitch, precisely because I *should have* made it that clear to my ex-h ... so I know the price to be paid of not making it clear.
But as for your encounter, I just wanted to say (you may not have read this in another post of mine) that my guy has the usual, for his age, loss of erection at certain times, too. But we treat it as a non-issue and it really is a non-issue. However, yes, the condoms are something you really should find a replacement for because it is just so much easier for them (at this age) to maintain the erection without one. But my point here is that - basically, if we change positions, I know that I either have to do it really quickly, or we have to get him started up again. So just knowing and expecting it really helps us. Because that way, there is truly no disappointment on either of our sides. He has taught me well that he needs continual stimulation or we'll lose it, BUT...that it it is easier to get it going again with the right amount of sexy and effort.
If Mr. Lucky can come to a place of acceptance, like Bagheera is saying, it will help him so much! Because I know that it is because of my man's knowledge and understanding of his own body that keeps him grounded and feeling secure when there is erection loss. He knows his body very well and knows what it can and won't do, so he has taught me how to get him back in the groove when necessary. And he knows not to feel like a failure because he isn't one....temporary loss of erection doesn't mean the end of the sexual encounter. Usually the erection is only "half" lost and comes back within a few moments (and its sometimes nice for me to have a break, too). I know Mr. Lucky can get to this place too (but again, the condoms make it much more difficult).
I'm happy you had that talk, and happy he initiated, woo hoo!
You are on the right track, girl.
Oh and hey, I wanted to say, you didn't say it out right but implied that you do have O's from intercourse alone. If that is the case, you and Mr. Lucky need to understand how LUCKY you both really are! I'm totally jealous and I doubt I will ever have an O from intercourse alone. You really ARE a Lucky Girl!
Is that why you picked your screen name?!?
DQ
Baggy,
Thank you for your words of approval and encouragement. It means so much to me. TRULY!!
I ordered The New Male Sexuality, and I look forward to reading it and to sharing it with H.
I have a feeling that H needs to find a way to be more selfish in lovemaking (the exact opposite of what a guy who is extremely concerned with being nice would have the inclination to do) in order to be more present in the connection and overcome the mental component that contributes to his loss of erection.
I hope that he reads TNMS and PM so that he can learn from "the authorities" rather than through trial and error with me. Sometimes I wish he were participating in this forum because he would benefit so much from it.
Thanks again, Baggy. I hope you and Mrs. Baggy are doing well.
Lucky
Hi DQ!
The one thing I don't think you said in your post was, did you make him understand that you would eventually be a WAW? You hinted at it, but did you really make it known? I am sorry to beat that drum again, but I just think it is important in everyone's sitch, precisely because I *should have* made it that clear to my ex-h ... so I know the price to be paid of not making it clear.
Yes, I clearly stated what was at stake. That the reason I needed to hash it out again, despite my fear of making him feel like a failure, was to be sure that he had a very clear understanding of where I stand. I told him that I'm fighting very hard to stay committed to our M when he isn't working with me, and that I had to be sure that he understood that so that he wouldn't be all "shock and awe" if I ever left. There was much more, and I made sure to reiterate my point in several ways so that it got through loud and clear.
He absolutely understands that coasting or putting me on a shelf is not going to be OK. My actions have to support those words. I can't pretend I'm OK when I'm in anguish ever again. And, I have to maintain a constructive way of delivering my messages to him.
But as for your encounter, I just wanted to say (you may not have read this in another post of mine) that my guy has the usual, for his age, loss of erection at certain times, too. But we treat it as a non-issue and it really is a non-issue. However, yes, the condoms are something you really should find a replacement for because it is just so much easier for them (at this age) to maintain the erection without one. But my point here is that - basically, if we change positions, I know that I either have to do it really quickly, or we have to get him started up again. So just knowing and expecting it really helps us. Because that way, there is truly no disappointment on either of our sides. He has taught me well that he needs continual stimulation or we'll lose it, BUT...that it it is easier to get it going again with the right amount of sexy and effort.
If Mr. Lucky can come to a place of acceptance, like Bagheera is saying, it will help him so much! Because I know that it is because of my man's knowledge and understanding of his own body that keeps him grounded and feeling secure when there is erection loss. He knows his body very well and knows what it can and won't do, so he has taught me how to get him back in the groove when necessary. And he knows not to feel like a failure because he isn't one....temporary loss of erection doesn't mean the end of the sexual encounter. Usually the erection is only "half" lost and comes back within a few moments (and its sometimes nice for me to have a break, too). I know Mr. Lucky can get to this place too (but again, the condoms make it much more difficult).
This is helpful advice. Thank you for sharing about Mr. DQ. It sounds like our men have a very similar pattern. I caught on (without him guiding me, by the way... I wish it weren't such a guessing game) that he needed constant stimulation, and I tried to do that in between changes, but I learned that the condom was just a huge barrier and he needed skin-to-skin, high friction contact. I get it now and will know what to do better in the future. This constant, high-friction stimulation is what he needs, and what makes him angry with his ["special needs"] body. I tried to get him to see how his self-loathing was not going to do him any good, but in that moment, though I was the only person around, I was the wrong person to give him handy advice.
I'm happy you had that talk, and happy he initiated, woo hoo!
You are on the right track, girl.
THANK YOU!!! To think... If I had found this board 8 years ago...
Oh and hey, I wanted to say, you didn't say it out right but implied that you do have O's from intercourse alone. If that is the case, you and Mr. Lucky need to understand how LUCKY you both really are! I'm totally jealous and I doubt I will ever have an O from intercourse alone. You really ARE a Lucky Girl!
Is that why you picked your screen name?!?
DQ
OK - For those of you who hate TMI, please stop reading here. The reason that I can O from intercourse alone is because I learned to masturbate when I was 10 from my GF. She demonstrated the hump/grind technique, which is the first way I ever experienced an O (I'll never forget that one). So, with intermittent bumping/grinding against my pelvis and clit, I can easily O. Since I had the baby, for some reason, my G spot seems to be more sensitive and/or easy to reach(?) so now I can also O just by using my finger, and during sex I don't even have to grind too much because just thrusting stimulates it. Of course, my head has to be in the right place for an O to occur, too. I can usually tell when it is just peeking within sight, and I can mentally go toward it to grasp it. I don't know it that makes sense.
My ability to O has been honed through years of practice during masturbation. Since that is easy for me (a blessing that I am grateful for), I can focus on our connection and other aspects of lovemaking with H.
People used to try to tell me how sex gets better and better with age. I never understood until now how the combination of mature exploration, studying the difference between mechanics and psychology, and possible bodily changes really do bring sexuality to a new plane.
Thanks, as always, for your support.
Lucky
Dang how I envy you...and wish I had learned to O that way when I was young. I do however have dreams in which I can O from just thrusting and light mashing, and I have always realized that I could potentially bring this ability into my waking life with the right amount of practice etc....but it is still a ways off in my future at this point. But I hope you do realize how LUCKY you really are for this blessing....because most women are spending their time figuring out how to have O's, let alone have them during intercourse.
Take heart for the things that give you an upper hand in the area of sexuality, Lucky! I have a few as well and I never knew the power they held until now....its great to have that type of sexual power. The more you are aware of it, the better you can use it!
DQ
I have a feeling that H needs to find a way to be more selfish in lovemaking (the exact opposite of what a guy who is extremely concerned with being nice would have the inclination to do) in order to be more present in the connection and overcome the mental component that contributes to his loss of erection.
-- and VERY difficult for a 'well trained'
Nice Guy to do. It goes against *everything* you were brought up to think about how a woman should be treated, both inside and outside of the bedroom. Additionally, raw, primal, unbridled male sexually is -scary-, particulary to a
Nice Guy who has been brought up to keep his male sexual urges tightly in a cage his entire life. Taking that "Tiger" out for a prowl (even on a thick, controlling lead) takes practice --> and positive feedback from your partner <-- in order to get comfortable with doing it.
You're reminding me of last Saturday morning, when I did something that is still RARE for me, reocovering
Nice Guy that I am. Thanks to whatever dream I was having, I woke up partially aroused and horny for my wife, while my wife was just partially awake but definitely -not- in the mood (she isn't a morning person...). Most Saturday mornings like that, I'll massage her, touch her, and gently and gradually get her into the mood. This time, however, I simply yanked her panties off (against some protest), fondled her for my own pleasure only, and then 'took' her as I liked, and focused on riding my own 'animal' passion. The punch line is --> by the time I entered her, she was in a fully ballooned and aroused vaginal state (hard to tell on some women, but easy on her). My sexual ruthlessness -- focused on her -- was just as arousing, if not more so, than all the gentle ministrations I might have performed otherwise.
Female sexuality is so variable and complex, it's enough to make a man's (or at least a
Nice Guy's) head spin around like Linda Blair's sometimes. At some point, you just have to say f@ck it, and yank her panties off....
-- B.
YESSSSSSSS! Baggy - That's exactly it. You know, from reading my posts, you might think that I'm always in the mood, rearing to go. Oh contrare... Yanking off the panties is the only way to get a girl in the mood sometimes.
Sometimes, the massage/caress thing is seen/felt as a cue... ("Oh boy, he's gonna make his move... He's reving up... C'mon big daddy, you can do it... I suppose it's up to me to start purring so he will be brave enough to come in for the kill." Yanking off the panties is REALLY going in for the kill!
Yank... off... panties...
Exxxxcellent! Yum.
Lucky
Hi Lucky,
Coming from the "house of ED".... this book is another really good read. The Hardness Factor, by Steven Lamm M.D.
I know...the title sounds hokey, but it is very practical book, written by an internist, kinda funny and gives excellent (and easy) suggestions toward achieving "sexual fitness". My husband loved it and quickly read it cover to cover. Trouble is, if you only read but don't do any of the activities, nothing improves in the bedroom--DUH!!
This stuff, the "program", is really easy in my opinion. If it were me with ED and I found this "easy" way to potentially fix things with my body, I would be all over it like a duck on a junebug. But then again, I am more highly motivated.
Thinking of you...
Silverado
(((Silverado)))!
What a happy surprise to have you visit today! I hope you're doing well(?) I wish you would post more and join the virtual party, but I understand if you don't want to.
Thanks for that tip. I will check out that book, too!
Best,
Lucky
On the topic of the man yanking off her panties...
I had been thinking a bit ago about the phenomenon where women tend to think that men should "just know" what turns her on, and therefore many women tend to never learn how to tell or show a man what she needs, as she is continually stuck with the impression that he should "just know".
Now I still think that this is incorrect and men do not "just know" and women need to be in touch enough with themselves to tell their man what they need....however....
I am thinking that this feeling that women have that men should "just know" IS FACTUAL on a certain level. Because the thing is, what women want is for a man to take her, and doesn't a man always want to just take a woman? Doesn't a man have to learn how NOT to take a woman, how to fight his sexual urges and never push himself upon a woman sexually? He has to LEARN this because his body "just knows" that it wants to take the woman. And a woman knows that a man "just knows" that he wants to take her. So when he doesn't take her, even now within a committed relationship when he is supposed to be free to take her as he wants (within respectful limits)...she ends up feeling discouraged and disappointed when he DOESN'T just take her. She knows instinctively that HIS instincts are what should guide their sexual encounters, not hers. Her job is to be receptive and to not get hurt in the process of him taking her.
To put it this way...
When my man starts making eyes at me in the way that says he is about to take me, and further when he starts pushing his body up against mine or roughly making out with me, I immediately start getting physically aroused and wet. My BODY KNOWS what it is supposed to do. Even if my mind is still on "gee, I'm not sure if we have time before I have to leave for work", my body is already gearing up, in response to the fact that a stronger male is giving me signals that he is going to "just take" me. This message tells my body to get physically aroused and wet, because if it doesn't, I can get hurt. So my body is doing me this favor by being ready for it physically, whether I am emotionally or not.
But we can't fake this dynamic. It only happens when his body is truly coming at me to take me, and my body truly responds to his intent. If we are just pretending and I know that he has to rush out the door and isn't going to take me, even if he is roughly making out with me or talking dirty like he might, my body won't respond in the same way. My body knows the difference based on HIS TRUE intent.
So in thinking back in the past and when I believed naively that men should "just know" what turns a woman on... I think it was not so far off base after all. Men really DO "just know", they have just been trained NOT to follow through on what they "just know". But they do, in fact, know it.
DQ
[head spins around like Linda Blair's....]
See?
-- B.
But Baggy, it does make sense, doesn't it? My last post, that is. The male-female animalistic dynamic is present, always. And if a male animal is going to dominate and "take" a female animal, she is likely not going to make some emotional play like "nah, I'm not up for it tonight Mr. Lion...try me again when I've had more rest". Instead, based upon her instinctual understanding (which doesn't require emotional understanding) that he is about to mount her, all she needs to know is how to not get hurt in the process...which means, her body gets ready for it and she gets into position for it. Simple?
DQ
I just couldn't resist the joke, DQ;
I actually do grok you, although in the context of our 'modern' primate society and culture, it really does put an unfair burden on the silver-back males to know when, -really- when, it is alright to let our animal selves out of the cage and 'take' what we want -- what our hormones and instincts are driving us to want. And also when it is -really- NOT alright.
But who said life was fair....
-- B.
Eh... I just think, in a trusting R, the guy should just try whenever he wants to try without trying to read the situation too much. Your W can say no or give you the code word for stop.
At least, that's how I wish my H would handle me. I'm more than capable of telling him if he's all over me too much.
How are you supposed to get into a satisfying groove without acting on your natural urges when they arise?
Maybe I'm oversimplifying.
Lucky
Yeah Baggy...what LG said....there isn't any need to figure out "when" is a good time if you are truly listening to your primal urges, right? Whenever you have the primal urge, you go for it, just like the silverback will do. Then if she beats your ears for it, you know its not the right time. But not fearing rejection at all is the key here, and I do understand that given your history of rejection, you can't just shake that off overnight.
I guess I can at least tell you all though, that if you can set aside your fears of rejection or of "doing it perfectly" or whatever else may be in your fears, and if you can just authentically "go after" your woman when the urge hits you, SHE WILL respond to you in a way that is new to you. She will be turned on by it. It is in her nature to be so turned on by it that her body will take over and she will be physically aroused by the time you get there. That's how this stuff works! But give her the whif of any insecurity, and her body knows the difference. She won't be responsive to your insecurity, why would she be? Not to say that she doesn't share in the responsibility for that insecurity in your case, Baggy, because of your history together. But at the same time, she needs to let go of her insecurities too, and you need to let go of yours.
What the worst thing that can happen? She will say "no"? Pffft, if that's all, then you are used to that one! LOL!
All I know is that if my man's body is coming after mine with the intent of taking me, I have no choice but to respond sexually to him!
DQ
Shifting from my thread to LuckyGirl's;
You know I have to ask this, Lucky;
Type 7: The Enthusiast
Basic Desire: to be happy
Basic Fear: of being deprived
So....were you 'deprived' of happiness, adventure, experiences as a child in some way?
Oh sure. Squeaky clean, Catholic, "good girl", Old Country Italian crap. Constant riding, constant finger pointing at the trashy neighbors, lots of praise of individuals who were "exemplary".
I was always trying to bust out or rebel in some way....
Not to put too much emphasis on this 'personality typing' stuff, which is, by necessity, a gross oversimplication (or characature) of a highly-complex persona, but something from the description for your type, Lucky, stood out to me:
Text
taken from here.
"In the healthy state, the need to be happy induces Type Sevens to explore the world and genuinely appreciate what they find. They derive great happiness as a result, thus their need is satisfied and a balance is reached.
In the average state, when Sevens' are not exploring and appreciating the world, they become restless and unhappy. The the need to be happy increases, which helps Sevens to again reach out to the world and find things to appreciate. Thus the balancing loop can help Sevens to recover.
In the unhealthy state, the basic fear of being being deprived can cause Type Sevens to numbly seek new and different sensations and adventures without truly appreciating the experience. This means they will derive little happiness from all the highs, which further increases Sevens' feeling of emptiness and basic fear of being deprived. The cycle continues to build up."
Place the above in the context of your sexual relationship. Would it be fair to say that since you've been hanging out with us here, you've moved from the 'Unhealthy' state to at least the "Average' state? Still restless and unhappy, but no longer 'numb'?
-- B.
Baggy,
The above also stuck out for me when I read it yesterday. Not only does it apply to my sexual relationship (which was basically non-existent for 8 years - once a month at best), but it also applies to me being a SAHM. I'm a little bit stuck right now... and restless.
Yes, since I've been hanging out here, I don't feel so alone as a SSW, and I don't feel so alone in general because our virtual community is always checking in on each other. I hate to liken it a pacifier, but it does have that quality at times. Coming here relieves my need to express, vent, inquire for advice, and connect with people who understand. Most people in my face-to-face life don't have (or don't care to discuss if they do have) a situation like mine.
Lucky
Lucky,
Interestingly, I got to thinking about my own situation the other day, and it occurred to me that the last year has been probably my most mentally stable ever. Given that less than 3 years ago I saw myself as effectively defined by my sex-starved marriage and alternated between mild depression and contemplating self-destructive behaviours, that is a very big deal to me. And in terms of dealing with all kinds of personal challenges, last year was also my happiest.
That year-long period coincided with me starting to post regularly here - but its not a coincidence.
I think the importance of ventilating these important life issues in a safe supportive place (and getting to help others, pick up inspiring tips from others) cannot be underestimated.
The interaction here has been invaluable to me in crystallising a lot of my thoughts, feelings and beliefs about life. Telling others what you think of their particular situation has the effect of confirming to you in turn who you really are.
Bagheera (affirm your wife, meet her needs) and DQ (talk about sex directly, just take her) have been a big help to me. I'd like to think I've been of some help to others as well.
So my point is - your attitude and therefore your situation has already improved since you first started here. Keep up the reading and the posting, it removes your fear of dealing with your own issues and the issues in your marriage, and is therefore an important part of your personal growth.
(We cannot expect our spouses to face their fears and issues unless we are doing the same.)
S&A
Hi S&A,
Thank you for your encouragement. You know, I hadn't noticed that my attitude has improved much, but I have noticed that my emotional state has stabilized. I am definitely happier and crying less. So, a galaxy-sized THANKS to you and all of the people who post advice and their stories. This has been one of the most important phases of personal growth in my life. The impact of you fine people and my gratitude to you all is difficult to match with mere words.
S&A, I have to mention... Part of why Baggy and DQ and others make such a strong impact is because they share their own stories. They don't just give advice and evaluate and help others. They contribute their very real lives and their very real selves to the mix. There is a give and take... we're all helping each other over the proverbial wall. I haven't seen much of *you*, and I don't know much about your situation. Perhaps it is because I'm too new here. For what it's worth, please know that I am most interested in getting to know you better. The posts you make are reflective of someone who is wise and of great depth and intelligence. Of course, I respect your choice to refrain for whatever reason and I won't be *too* disappointed. Whatever you choose to contribute will always be relished!
Best,
Lucky
Well, welly well well...
H surprised me (heavens to Betsy... WEEKDAY sex???) late last night and initiated with fierce determination. No lame cue. No awkward delay or nervous "pretend massage" warm-up. He just went for the kill starting with hard mashing right after we got into bed. YUM!
My hero.
Lucky (I really am)
Oh Lucky....HURRRAH!!!! (doing Snoopy's happy dance)
He's "getting it".....
Makes me want to screem with joy and happiness for you!!!
Seriously, he's gonna change this around for you both....(well your efforts are what are changing it around, but him following your lead and really understanding what you are needing was the key!)
I hope today you send him a "thank you for rocking my world text" because this time, you aren't thanking him for giving it to you like pity....but instead you are thanking him for doing it RIGHT. Encourage him!
And I hope you're patting YOURSELF on the back a bit, too.
*Its working....the plan is working....*
DQ
DQ,
Thanks, as always.
Yes, I was gushing this morning, and H was sent off with a big, appreciative French kiss. I also sent him some sexy texts. Of course!
Little by little...
Lucky
Lucky!
He
IS getting it. He is also so lucky to have you by his side. I know you have a great start to even better things to come.
Cinco
ok..I am still new.. and Lucky Girl has read my story.. I am looking around reading things that sound like me..and this is sounding like me.!!!
I have had to explain to my husband, who is not dominant..very docile.. that I want to be dominated (w/in reason) in bed..that I want to be talked to dirty and I want to feel "taken", he struggles w/ it so much b/c it is so far from who he is.. but I cant understand when he is sexually aroused.. ( which there are ED problems there too)..why that doesnt bolster the ability to dominate..
Not to be too graphic or vulgar.. but Im at a stage where I dont want to make love..I know he loves me..I want to be f*****.. sorry for the language.. but it gets the point across so much more efficiently..
He says that it is hard.. and i dont know what else to do.
We months at a time w/ no sex while on antidepressants, b/c i just didnt want to.. but i think now.. if he had pushed the issue even a little i wouldhave wanted to.. women have to be "put"in the mood most of the time..that is crappy, but the truth I think..and sometimes.. it takes more intense pursuit..
I have told him, but we are dealing w/ other issues also.. so it is hard.. its just very cool to be on here and read that other people are having EXACTLY the same problem as me..
Thank you all..
I have had to explain to my husband, who is not dominant..very docile.. that I want to be dominated (w/in reason) in bed..that I want to be talked to dirty and I want to feel "taken", he struggles w/ it so much b/c it is so far from who he is....
HJR;
I've had to
walk down the path that you're asking him to take, and it's honestly not an easy one for many men -- it goes against their ENTIRE upbringing with regard to how they are supposed to treat women. That said, a man CAN change this aspect of himself (with time) and become the 'rogue' that his wife wants him to be in bed -- so don't lose hope.
Here's a books suggestion for you. It's short, and one that both you and your husband can probably appreciate:
Just F*ck Me! - What Women Want Men to Know About Taking Control in the Bedroom (A Guide for Couples)by Eve Kingsley
It's not as deep or in-depth as some of the other books we frequently discuss here, but it does a good job of addressing the single point about what you're looking for from him in the bedroom.
-- B.
Bagheera!! Im glad you have been responding to my posts..I have ordered this book right away..I dont know if he will read it..but i will and then give it to him..
Hopefully it will help him...
I fear I am losing respect for him as a man b/c of his lack to be "manly" in our marraige.. and I dont want to say that to him..it would crush him..he is already reeling from my other behavior to have that thrown on top would be horrible..
He says that he has a hard time w/ it b/c he saw his mother treated badly by so many men. that he doesnt want to appear disrespectful to me...I told him that I have no doubt that he loves me and respects me.. but its just different in the bedroom..i want it to feel carnal instead of facilitating...
thanks again
Putting this back into LuckyGirl's thread:
I'm afraid to post anything about my sitch because I'm terrified that I might jinx it. We are really making progress. I have to admit that I have been pushing even harder lately and trying to break old stale patterns by shaking things up when I would normally sit quiet and wait. I realize that we have a pattern of 1) I initiate a discussion that seems productive and positive, 2) he initiates sex in the next day or two, 3)sizzlefritz, crickets, I sit and wait, not wanting to nag/mother, 4) I stew and get ready for the next discussion. Now, instead of sitting and waiting, I'm making playful, strongly suggestive, almost demanding "come hither"/"give me some luvin'" remarks. We seem to be in a growth spurt. I'm so excited, yet I'm terrified that it might not stick. I just can't let it happen! Too early to tell if we really have reached the next level. Thanks for asking -- It felt good to write that out.
Excellent news, Lucky --> keep shakin' those tail feathers, girl! Every time you do, it strokes his male ego, works to 'fire up his engines' (i.e. tug at his libedo), and gives him the courage or incentive he may need to take you up on the "chase".....and capture.
You are essentially doing what I have had to do in order to improve my own sexual relationship --> you've imcreased the level of Sexual Polarity between the two of you, and in so doing, improved the sexual relationship. In my case, I've had to move in the Masculine direction, and attract the attention of my wife by being more of
The Man who turns -her- on. In your case, you're moving in the Feminine direction, and attracting the attention of your husband by being more of
The Woman who turns -him- on. Our sex therapist would be proud of you!
At some point, of course, our partners have to get on board and start doing their part too; that is, begin moving themselves in their respective direction on the Sexual Polarity spectrum. Hence the recent rounds of discussions and sessions between my wife, myself, and our therpist, in my own case. However, for the first 'stage' of recovery, it's alright for one partner to take the lead -- just be careful not to let any frustration over his failures to move build up too much. I've been there and done that, too. If I were you, I would seek out a counselor or sex therapist and get your H to start seeing one with you: having to report weekly to a counselor and do 'homework' exercises helps to keep everyone focused and working the issue, and lets the counselor take on the role of whip-cracker, rather than you.
What you are doing is extremely smart, too, in that you didn't attempt to do a 'role-reversal' and take on the role of chasing -him-, doing to him what you wanted him to do to you....that would have felt very unsatisfying for you, and would have been unsustainable. By turning on your FEM and enticing the chase, you're establishing the dynamic that YOU want, and that turns YOU on, while pulling him along for the ride.
Just remember, and tell yourself this daily, that YOU are sexy and attractive and HOT,
exactly as you are, to your man. Not to belittle my own sex too much, but
men are extraordinarily easy to stimulate visually or physically, especially when the woman they love is involved. I keep hammering this point home to my wife -- women are far, Far, FAR more critical of their bodies than their men ever are -- we're EASY....take advantage of it!
-- B.
Baggy,
Thank you so much. I feel so great about my marriage now. I really think we can create our own little slice of heaven on earth. For so many years, I couldn't believe I had this perfect, wonderful man... Everything I dreamed of finding in a man. His disinterest was CRUSHING, and I was sure that I had to just suck it up and live life without in order to have the perfect, wonderful man. I thought it was some sort of cosmic bargain. I thought I was a brat for wanting anything more than what he was, because I do believe he is a superior man.
If it really revs up and he starts truly desiring for himself, I'm afraid it'll be too good to be true. I'll probably live in fear of being hit by lightening! (chuckle) And, if the rainbow jimmies ever come along, I might just spontaneously combust!
Thanks, as always, for your encouragement and support.
[Happy, Hopeful, and] Lucky
His disinterest was CRUSHING, and I was sure that I had to just suck it up and live life without in order to have the perfect, wonderful man. I thought it was some sort of cosmic bargain. I thought I was a brat for wanting anything more than what he was, because I do believe he is a superior man.
Oh dear, I read this yesterday, wasnt in the mood to post and then today, had to come back and read it again. Because it describes me 2-3 years ago... Of course, the story doesnt end happily for me as it seems, but I am glad I was wrong anyway. It feels good to be reminded, shown, that what I lived wasnt how it should be, you know? I cant explain it very well. My English isnt helping me today. Let's just say, I read this and smiled and felt hopeful.
And I am very happy you get to "live the happily ever after"... or should I use another verb
Enjoy your slice of heaven...
K
Thank you, Kalni!
The only reason I am able to entertain building a slice of heaven is because my H is emotionally mature and because he wants the same end goal: a happy marriage and a happy family.
I chose to marry my H knowing there was little intimacy, knowing that I had a big mountain to climb. That was not smart, as I do believe that two responsible adults should work out recognizable issues before marriage. I was weighing the benefits and risks, and I underestimated my need for intimacy and overestimated my magical powers to make him want me, and I doubted that I could stand a lifetime without it. When deciding to marry him, I told myself that needing sex was just reducing myself to an animal. I would punish myself for those wants, telling myself to use my intelligence, throw away the emotions, and get my head out of my crotch. After all, there was a good man at stake who made me happy in so many other ways. I was immature, and I rationalized foolishly so that I wouldn't have to suffer losing him. I also didn't want to go back out there, kissing toads. Hopefully, this phase of work is going to be a sort of productive penance rather than continuing to pay through starvation.
For now, I hope that you create your own slice of heaven by filling your days with your favorite things and activities. As long as you are having fun and doing what you love, you will attract others who want to join in. If no one happens to come along, at least you're having fun and loving yourself!
Best,
Lucky
Journaling:
This weekend, H kept looking at me like a wolf, making suggestive yet playful remarks, and grabbing and kissing me sporadically. He was pursuing me exactly the way I need, AUTHENTICALLY!
Sunday morning, H started making out with me, caressing me all over, holding me as if he wanted to devour me. And then we ML. Heaven...
So, it is confirmed. H has had it in him the entire time. It just took work and communication for him to use it.
I'm still a bit terrified that I might be dreaming. I'm still realistic that our work is not done. There are surely more issues that need to be uncovered and worked through. It should be easier to do so with a sex life in the mix, though!
Lucky
So, it is confirmed. H has had it in him the entire time. It just took work and communication for him to use it.
Congratulations, Lucky --> success and weekends like that one are what keep the recovery process moving forward. Well done!
That said, do -not- expect that everything is now "all fixed" and the hard work is done. There -will- be bumps and back-slides, and regressions into old patterns of behavior (on both of your parts). Long-term, sustainable change takes daily, conscious effort, particular in the beginning, and it also takes picking yourself up and dusting off, every time you get knocked down. Brunhilde hasn't sung yet!
Alright, enough of my raining on your parade! It was the big
P time of the month in my household, so all of my weekend plans got waylaid. Call my grumpy.
-- B.
Thanks, Baggy. I know it'll be a "bumpy road to recovery", indeed! (Darnit)
Sorry for the TMI, but I don't understand why the big P time of the month is such a barrier. Even if you or she doesn't want direct contact, you can still have intimacy, caressing, kissing, fondling, humping, blow job... with her underwear on. What's the big deal?
When I have my P, I still get turned on, can O, want my H to have fun and get off...
Lucky
Sorry for the TMI, but I don't understand why the big P time of the month is such a barrier. Even if you or she doesn't want direct contact, you can still have intimacy, caressing, kissing, fondling, humping, blow job... with her underwear on. What's the big deal?
SHE doesn't feel comfortable with it, and so the gate goes up. She often feels bloated, crampy, and generally not up-to-par during that time frame, and I know that she feels decided unsexy also. I also know that she will occasionally Vibe-O herself during her period, but it's one of those areas where there is still disparity between her personal, private sexuality, and what she will display with another person.
Everything you mentioned above would be fine with me, but the
P boundary is still one that I'm asked to respect -- and so I do. I've pushed it a little on occasion, but in general, a few days of "off limits" per months isn't a big problem.
-- B.
OK, but you're still racy and sexy with her during that time, right? Just to keep the tone consistent so that she doesn't only equate that tone with your expectation for action? IOW, you don't totally back off, right?
Lucky
OK, but you're still racy and sexy with her during that time, right? Just to keep the tone consistent so that she doesn't only equate that tone with your expectation for action? IOW, you don't totally back off, right?
No, I don't back off, at least not initially. What commonly happens each month is that -she- backs off from being touching and affectionate --> disappearing behind her 'shield' or into her shell, without even realizing it. She focuses on doing her own thing, handling her own family responsibiilties, and all affection, and loving words / actions are simply 'echoes' of what I bring to her ("I love you," "I love you too," type stuff). This goes on for about a week after her P starts, and even if I do initiate and drag her to bed with me, her body often doesn't want to respond, even if she mentally -may- want to. I suspect that it's a hormone thing, a 'slump' in T levels or some such that we have to ride through each month, although there is some history there too (see below).
She generally won't even realize that she's pulled away from me, affection and touching wise because doing so on a regular, daily basis is something that she still has to force herself to do, especially if she initiates it -- it's not natural yet. So during this time period, she unknowingly backs away from that conscious effort to her more 'natural' non-touchy state. After a few days of it I -do- tend to get annoyed, but yes, I know that being grumpy isn't the way to fix it --> worst thing I can do, really, because it causes me to then back away from her in response....a bad cycle. I also recognize that there is probably some chicken-egg effect at play here too: in the past I would get uber grumpy when her period showed up, so now, as a matter of course, she goes into a defensive stance with no prompting from me at all. We both need to get out of it.
Lucky, also keep in mind that she isn't like either you or DQ in that as a general rule she -doesn't like- my being 'racy' or 'sexy' or 'frisky' on a frequent basis with her during the day. She gets annoyed by it, and start to suspect that my every non-sexual touch is really a sexual touch in disguise, which ruins their positive effect for her. I usually have to pick and choose my moments where a suggestive comment or a stolen kiss & grope will be appreciated and make her smile -- which isn't at this time of the month. You are far more receptive and appreciative of your husband doing such things than my W is.....yet.
-- B.
I also recognize that there is probably some chicken-egg effect at play here too: in the past I would get uber grumpy when her period showed up......
I realized that the above doesn't make any sense at all without context. Back in our severe SSM days, she would tend to treat her period in the same way that a kid treats a "home-base" tree during a game of tag. I'd chase, she'd dodge and turn me down for one reason or another, I'd wait for another night and chase some more, she'd pull out another excuse or reason and dodge again, but then, Huzzah! Her P would start and she'd be at her home-base, safe and untouchable for a few days. It was rather frustrating, and I showed it.
So even today, with the SSM very much on the mend, we still tend to show some echoes of that old behavior sometimes.
-- B.
In my case, my guy is the one who doesn't want sex during the P. He will do me in any other way I ask, except intercourse. And he will be happy to have me do him in any other way, too. But doing the deed is a problem for him. Not sure why, haven't asked. Just assumed that yeah, a bleeding vag may not be that sexy so I never pushed it. LOL! But truthfully, other than one or two days of discomfort, the rest of the time it would be fine for me to have intercourse...just throw down a big red towel and try not to be too messy!
Sorry for hi-jacking your thread, Lucky!
And WOO HOO for you for your weekend. I can already hear the call of the pirate off in the distance...he is staking his claim now...."here ye mateys, the gal called Lucky shall be MY wench, the rest of ye scums fend for yerselves...."
DQ
What if you had more daily routines, like DQ's morning caress/make-out ritual with Mr. DQ? No matter what day it is, it would be a common thread that would tie all the days together.
I'm sorry, Baggy, if it is frustrating to you that I'm pushing on this.
I think that any sensitivity around a girl's period should be logistical only (if she doesn't want V contact because it's a mess or painful, that's OK). But, there is no reason to stop kissing and caressing or at least just snuggling. If she complains of cramps, say you're sorry to hear that and offer to bring her Advil and water.
A girl can be crabby and crampy without her period, too. You can't always predict just based on her cycle. Also, there are lighter days in a period that are much easier on a woman. So, why try to predict at all? Let her tell you "no".
Sounds like she does hide behind it, because I don't buy that she isn't touchy *at all* during her P *because of cramps and irritability*. I hope you're not talking about basic hugging, snuggling, and kissing, too? That would sound a bit far fetched to me.
Lucky
Sounds like she does hide behind it, because I don't buy that she isn't touchy *at all* during her P *because of cramps and irritability*. I hope you're not talking about basic hugging, snuggling, and kissing, too? That would sound a bit far fetched to me.
I think you have to keep in mind our history with regard to her P time of the month (that I sketched above) and also keep in mind that she is coming from a natural inclination to be non-touchy, and non-sexual (from her abuse history). She has bravely embarked on a path with me to become -more- touch oriented and -more- sexual, but it's still in the early stages, really, and still feels very contrived to her at times. She has to -make- herself come to me and show physical affection for me: the natural 'tickle' to do so just isn't there.
So during this 'time of the month,' where there is a history of her being defensive and me being grumpy, and since,
in her mind, she -is- sexually unavailable during that time frame, it makes sense that she would also withdraw (without even thinking about it) from even day-to-day, non-sexual affection and touching.
I have pointed out to her that non-sexual affection and touching is even -more- important to me if she is going to continue putting up the sexual 'shield' during her P. I have also reminded her that I am more than welcome to trying the myriad of other potential activities outside of vaginal intercourse, if she wanted to give it a try. Heck, back in my young adult days, one of my wildest and most enjoyable sexual relationships was with a "good Catholic girl" who made vaginal intercourse completely off-limits, but the two of us did pretty much everything -else- under the sun, with enthusiasm.
One step at a time, however...
-- B.
Hey, Baggy, been off awhile, vacation & other stuff so I'm just catching up. Backing up a couple weeks: She sleeps w/panties on?!?!?!?! Wow. Since the last kid moved out in '92 neither of us do. Even then, we could always keep a robe handy. That warm skin-to-skin spooning always feels so good even if it doesn't lead to ML.
There's a flip side to the P thing. I used to hide it from my H as much as I could since he wasn't hi-frequency & I didn't want to give him a reason not to ML for more days than necessary. What a contrast!
Back to you, LG, I might have asked before, but how well does your H sleep? A man's body makes the big T during sleep at night. Lots of snoring, possible apnea, less than 7 or 8 hours sleeping straight thru can cause a decline.
I also envy your O's during penetration. Any excess activity on my part tends to cause PE. It always was a problem w/ex H. Not much chance to "practice" that technique. Even tho he's read TNMS (at least he says he did) he still kinda thinks it should be easier to do that (and, unfortunately, quicker). He is learning, tho that if the big E wilts, its fun to get it back and enjoy ML longer. Now to get him into touching, teasing earlier in the day, giving clear signals since he still doesn't seem to get that it takes time to get turned on & total silence doesn't work for me.
L8R, guys,
J
"because I don't buy that she isn't touchy *at all* during her P *because of cramps and irritability*. I hope you're not talking about basic hugging, snuggling, and kissing, too? That would sound a bit far fetched to me."
Not far fetched at all IMO. In fact I'd wager that if a survey was done more women would answer they prefer to be left alone sexually/physically during this time than want to be touched.
Hmmm... I'll have to look into this to see if there is any data on the subject.
I was referring to hugging, being held, kissing, and general tenderness, not necessarily all out sexual touching (hence the *at all* qualifier).
When I'm achy and crampy or just feeling ill, I love being held and snuggling.
However, I do recognize that I am more open and touchy feely than a lot of people in the world. So, perhaps I am in the minority.
Lucky
Jayce: H does snore a lot, and think he assumed that he had sleep apnea. He used to sleep on a "ramp of life" that he made out of pillows because he thought he might stop breathing in the night. He definitely needs better sleep.
The problem with low T is that you can't just spike the levels through diet, exercise, and sleep alone. That barely scratches the surface. Replacement therapy is the most effective approach, but H is worried about roid rage and growing boobs.
It's great that you've made progress in getting your H to try to get his E back. Once H's is gone, he is too disappointed to get in a productive headspace. I'm going to try to talk to him about that so he can try a different reaction next time it happens.
Lucky
Still going strong!
H swooped in with a bottle of wine last night, grabbed me and kissed me, held my hands and locked eyes with me for a couple of seconds.
I've been reading "The New Male Sexuality" (thanks, Baggy - excellent so far), and I mentioned how these books are making me think really hard about raising our son. We had great conversation about this and about what H's dad was like growing up (distant, absent, both parents were more loving when they were little but as soon as they hit their teen years, they detached and seemed to not know how to handle it, no hugging or touching past pre-adolescence for any of them...)
Watched "Millionaire Matchmaker". He doesn't rant about this show anymore and seems to enjoy it lately, taking it lightly. I gotta say, sometimes the matchmaker makes some darn good statements. Last week, she had a Nice Guy type on, and she was talking about he needs to man up and lead. As a matchmaker, her strategy was to fix him up with a sweet, meek girl so that he could feel more comfortable letting his manly man out. I digress...
Made sweet love with lots of looking into each other's eyes.
This morning, H was checking to make sure I was wearing my rings (I don't wear them around the house because they are delicate and not baby-wrangling-friendly) before I go out to meet up with another mom from my mommy group. Not surprisingly, there's something about him making sure I'm "tagged" that I like.
Passionate kiss, and H is off to work.
I wish I didn't feel a tad insecure that this progress will be fleeting. Trying to enjoy each moment for what it is and not think too much.
Lucky
I very much hope it continues for you Lucky. All I can offer is keep communicating.
I'm pretty jealous. My relationship has improved a lot emotionally the last few months but our physical relationship is still the way it has been the last couple years. Once, maybe twice a month and just standard basic missionary only.
This communication about sex thing is one of the areas I feel confused about. I read here about how you ladies try to communicate your wants and needs and many times that helps. It seems the opposite for me and I think maybe for a good portion of men. Ask / talk about sex with your wife and it is usually a bad thing - it is looked at as complaining, begging, whining, bashing, etc....
Lucky...NO WAY that this progress is fleeting! Isn't this the second week in a row that he's initiated WEEKDAY SEX, when at one point not that long ago, you felt that weekday sex would be just a pipe dream?!?
Its normal for you to fear it is a fleeting thing, but I really don't think it is. I think that whatever his issues really are (fear of intimacy, etc) are finally coming to the forefront of his mind, and as he navigates through them (at your urging and insistence) he's finding that they really aren't all that scary after all, that he loves having a happy wife, and that hey! He's getting more and more sex out of it, which he actually ENJOYS now that he's getting into the groove of it!
The more sex you have, the more you want...or at least that is true for a lot of us....and supposedly that is even true for LD people, too, which is why some psych docs suggest that they "just do it" for 30 days in a row and things like that...they will soon find that their body is more and more happy to do it more often!
Plus, doesn't more sex for men actually cause their testosterone levels to rise on its own? I think I read that somewhere??
I'm so happy for you...and that part about making sure you're wearing your rings, well, you know what that "really" means...to a woman, stuff like that makes you swoon....I'm swooning just reading about your evening!
DQ
Thanks guys.
I gotta suspect that Schnarch is having some effect. He got his copy about a week ago. The eye contact stuff was new and unexpected - classic Schnarch.
Also, he never brought home wine on a random night before. We usually drink on weekends only. He came in, kissed me, immediately opened it and poured two glasses without offering, handed me one and clinked his glass against mine. Don't know where the heck that came from, but it was unexpected and fun.
So, Stillhope and Cinco and other guys who are looking for tips... Try something random and unexpected. Something you've never done before. FUN and refreshing -- not the same old husband. Keep pushing your situations out of the comfort zone!
Thanks to everyone who has helped me and my H get to this stage. I am over the moon!
Lucky
A note that might help someone who is afraid to confront his or her SSM...
This weekend, my H stated that he needed me to reach a point of refusing to live without sex. He needed an awakening to help him prioritize sex because he is always consumed with worry about doing well in his job, making money, and providing for the family. Because he was focused on survival, putting any sort of energy into intimacy didn't even occur to him. He also stated that once he realized that he *had* to focus on our intimacy, he was pleasantly surprised to find that he does have a natural drive and that his life can be happier with sex and a happy wife.
(We're only just beginning our sex-fed marriage, so I'm not claiming that we are "all fixed".)
My point is: Don't be afraid to be absolute when stating your needs, because your conviction and holding firm may be exactly what your spouse needs to begin his or her inward exploration and discovery.
Lucky
I'm so happy for you Lucky. I'm just almost swooning with how romantic it is, the fact that you and Mr. Lucky are now beginning to ignite your passion and fire...knowing in my heart that you are headed toward a bliss that neither of you have experienced before....
I'm so glad that you did tell him straight up what he could have possibly lost. Also so glad you found "us" and other resources before you got close to walking away. I know if you hadn't stumbled on these resources, then about another year or two from now (assuming there had been no changes) you would have had one foot out the door. When it gets to that point, its very hard for the nearly-LBS to make any changes that will help. But you sought out help BEFORE getting to that point, thankfully. And because of that, you very likely saved your own marriage.
And because Mr. Lucky DOES indeed have a sex drive, you are now very likely headed toward a fairy tale ending....
(tweet tweet...birdies flying around your heads....balloon hearts popping in the air....hey wait a minute, how did a leather whip get in with these Disney pictures in this romantic fantasy?)
LOL!
OK I'll go and update my own thread now, and I have to inquire about a few other peeps around here on their threads...ie: where IS everyone???
DQ
This weekend, my H stated that he needed me to reach a point of refusing to live without sex. He needed an awakening to help him prioritize sex because he is always consumed with worry about doing well in his job, making money, and providing for the family. Because he was focused on survival, putting any sort of energy into intimacy didn't even occur to him. He also stated that once he realized that he *had* to focus on our intimacy, he was pleasantly surprised to find that he does have a natural drive and that his life can be happier with sex and a happy wife.
And with that, you've just proved your avatar correct, LuckyGirl.
You and I are both EXTRAORDINARILY lucky to have spouses who woke up to smell the coffee, and
Got It! with regard to joining us in the process of rebuiding the marriage:
for their own benefits as well as ours.I've been keeping some loose statistics, and have observed that this happens in only about
10% of the cases that come to this board, over the past couple of years since I joined it. That is not to say that everyone who shows up here shouldn't take your advice and TRY, but the track-record is a bit shy on success stories. We need to hear more of them!
-- B.
Well, the statistics are interesting, but I wonder how many people who come on here really keep pushing and reading and trying before accepting defeat. That last talk I had with H was pretty intense, possibly harsh, because I just had to spell out what was at stake (thanks to one of Robx's posts). It was the most blatant talk we've had yet, and then I broke our pattern of me following our talk with backing off and waiting. Instead, I pushed again through playful suggestion a couple of days later. This was not easy to figure out, and I wonder how many people are so discouraged by the time they find this board that they give up easily. Of course, there are so many factors to consider. I AM extraordinarily lucky in that I found this place before ruining my marriage (and my son's potential family experience) by cheating or leaving.
I still wonder if his low T is going to be a constant struggle for him to maintain interest. I wonder if we'll be able to keep this going without some kind of T therapy. That's looming in the back of my mind. But, I hope that the more we "do it", the more he will want it.
We still have to climb the dysfunction mountain, too...
And, there's so much exploration to be done!!!
Thanks, Baggy. I'm so grateful to everyone here. It is difficult to express how important you all are to my life.
LUCKY Girl
Update:
In general, things are still going well. Chugging along.
H has been exhausted lately because of extra projects going on at work, and (understandably) hasn't been connected or available for the past few days. I initiated the other night when we went to bed (started with a make-out session,) but he had an allergy headache and needed to lay still.
Yesterday, he sent me a sexy text from work and then later came to bed and ravaged me last night. (Hooray!) We encountered our typical condom annoyances, but worked around it rather well.
I had a peaceful moment while driving yesterday, thinking about how grateful I am just to know myself better and to know more about what I want with regard to intimacy. As with any pursuit, understanding the goal is one of the most important steps. So, I feel good about that.
Thanks again for everyone who helped me get where I am now, with plenty of practical advice, a dab of philosophy, therapeutic exploration, 2x4's and all!
The journey continues...
Lucky
Lucky;
We encountered our typical condom annoyances, but worked around it rather well.
Are you guys all done having children, or is there some potential for more?
If the answer to this
"Yes, we're done, definitely done," and you (as the woman) are at or near the end of your "safe" child-bearing years (nearing 40ish), then I have one word for you:
---> Vasectomy.
It's one of the best things the two of you can do for you sex life. Trust me.
-- B.
Baggy,
I'm 38 and totally waffling about having another child. Hence the stupid condoms. (I love that Seinfeld episode where George is struggling to open the wrapper and he mutters something like, "Are you supposed to open it like a bag of chips??" Though... That isn't our problem, as I think I've described in previous posts.)
Believe me, vasectomy is on our horizon within the next 5 years! It WILL be such a relief.
Thanks,
Lucky
I fully support the vasectomy idea. I had one myself after our 3rd child.
(Of course, I was all excited about it and the prospect of more free, more enjoyable sex, but for some reason my W was not sharing that with me...and then 1 month later came the bomb. The EA had been going on all along.)
But even with that, the vasectomy brought me a ton of relief. I always hated condoms!
The wait is perfecntly understandable. You both have to be sure before taking a non-reversable step.
Once mine was done (during the same six-month separation in which I vowed to piece my marriage back together again) it was a -significant- relief to my wife, and has permitted her to enjoy sex much more, without any nagging "what ifs...." For my part, I never want to wear a 'raincoat' again: it became our primary BC measure after our last son was (accidentally) conceived, and after a few years of that, I detested them.
In your case, I would strongly suggest your working with your husband to find intercourse positions (that you can sustain) that provide the highest level of frenulum stimulation for him, so that he doesn't lose his arousal state (I -think- that's what you said was happening). If you like, I can share a couple here, which also provide excellent G-spot stimulation, which is why I adopted them -- primarily for my wife's benefit.
-- B.
Yes, please do share, Baggy.
Because of the ED issue, we have been exclusively in missionary from start to finish. I think we're both afraid of changing positions after the last episode that produced so much anguish for him.
Thanks,
Lucky
Yes, please do share, Baggy.
I'll suggest four, from least to most stimulating from my MALE perspective, although all four are -much- better than "standard" missionary position (blech...). The names are my own: simple, not artistic.
(1) Woman on Top
The 'standard' mode of this is
pictured here, but the key to best stimulation, for both partners, is for the woman to LEAN BACK (and put her arms back to support herself). The man can use a thumb or other fingers on the woman's clitoris to increase her stimulation further.
(2) Legs-High Missionary
This is perhaps our (my wife and I) favorite position right now, and is
pictured fairly well here (although the sculpture is of an anal postion, so modify to the appropriate channel
). The key here is for the man to NOT support himself by his arms, but to keep his center of gravity in his hips. My wife generally keeps her arms on the bed or on my thighs, while I support her legs in one of a variety of ways: putting my hands under her knees, holding her feet or calves, planting her feet on my chest, etc. Holding her feet or planting them on my chest lets her build the best leg-tension for an O, along with my thumb on her clitoris. Once you try this form, you'll -never- go back to the woman-lies-flat form of missionary.
(3) Legs-Apart Rear Entry
Sometimes called "doggy style" and
pictured poorly here. Again, the sculpture isn't quite right. For best male stimulation (and G-spot for the woman), the man should be on his knees (with legs together), and again keep is center of gravity low and in his hips -- he should not put his weight on his arms, and should leave them free to roam over his woman's body as he pleases or to grasp her hips to thrust harder. Also unlike the picture, my wife lays her head and shoulders on the bed (taking her weight off of her arms), and leaving one of her arms free to reach between her legs with a finger or vibrator. Done right, this position should rub -his- frenulum directly on -her- (aroused) G-spot quite vigorously.
(4) Legs-Together Rear Entry
Beginning with a Leg-Apart Rear Entry position, the man first puts one leg, and then the other, -outside- of his woman's legs, and moves hers -together-. The vaginal "squeeze" produced, coupled with the direct frenulum stimulation I mentioned above, challenges my ejaculatory control severely. This can be moved down to a
woman lying down rear-entry position, which stimulates her quite deliciously, but movement can be a bit limiting if she has some "padding" or his "reach" is limited. A legs-together rear entry also works great as a standing position for the man, with the woman bent over a couch, bed, or chair.
In general, Lucky, I've found that the positions that stimulate me the most are those that (1) allow me drive in deeply -- to the 'hilt', (2) have the angle to rub her G-spot (near the pubic bone, as felt through the vaginal wall) directly on the penis glans, particularly the frenulum, and (3) take my weight -off- of my arms. I don't get this last one, but in general, positions that put me on hands and knees don't work as well -- I like having hands free to roam where they will, and the W doesn't complain either.
-- B.
Baggy!
THANK YOU. There is some very valuable information here. We have done all of those positions at one time or another, typically guided by H, but lately he's been holding back. I'll have to coax him... The legs-together recommendation is one that we haven't done much of, so I am eager to try that... soon, I hope!
I can't stop giggling about you saying "blech" to the standard missionary position. First, that tells me that you are FAR into recovery... I'd still be happy with a dry hump at this point. Second, you just saying "blech" about the sex I just had last night, that I'm so joyful about, is just hilarious. I mean, really!!! I can't stop giggling. You are one of my greatest treasures.
From a certain angle, this whole struggle is such a ridiculous comedy, isn't it?
I've sometimes taken a step back and compared sex to eating (another very important part of life in my family.) Imagine that we're all sharing ideas about the complexities of how to enjoy and succeed at Christmas dinner... another tangled mess of physical/psychological/emotional intricacies! How much you participate in the preparations, just what to say when you show up, navigating struggles over the drumstick, "yummy talk," holding your cutlery just right, keeping Christmas alive all year so that it feels authentic...
OK, I'll shake off the crazy now.
Thanks again, Baggy, for your thoughtful and helpful post. I find that practical information and actionable advice like this has been most helpful to me on this journey.
Lucky
....and (3) take my weight -off- of my arms. I don't get this last one, but in general, positions that put me on hands and knees don't work as well...
Actually, I -do- get it. The 'hands-free' positions allow the man to build the best thigh- and hip-tension and enhance his arousal build-up. Putting weight on hands and arms (and adding tension there) removes it from legs and hips (and lessons the tension there).
-- B.
I think my H prefers the hands free positions, too, based on how he's guided me in the past. Hmmm... You'd think we would have discussed, but we still have work to do on talking about things. We tend to "let it be" in silent embrace, which is good in the name of enjoying the moment, but, we never get around to talking about details that would ultimately help us improve our orchestra.
Lucky
Second, you just saying "blech" about the sex I just had last night, that I'm so joyful about, is just hilarious. I mean, really!!! I can't stop giggling. You are one of my greatest treasures.
ACK! NO, No, no -- I didn't mean it -that- way!!
I was thinking
purely from the level of MALE STIMULATION provided. Any time my wife and I end up a standard missionary type of position (either man or woman on top), both of us with legs straight or close to it, we try it out for a little bit, and then I'll ask her:
Me: "Is that working for you?"
Her: "Nope...is that working for you?"
Me: "Nope..."
And then I'll change us to something different.
However, the position IS one of the
best for kissing while copulating. I've give it marks for that, and that's often how we wind up there, just for a short bit.
-- B.
I had to laugh about the blech comment, too! I love missionary! It is usually the most intimate of all the positions...but then there are other man-on-top positions that are possibly not what others consider missionary...such as him standing by the edge of the bed, and you laying on your back scooted all the way to the edge of the bed (like its a ob/gyn table). That way he is on top but he is standing so he doesn't have to have all the weight on his arms. His knees and legs take a beating this way, though. But again...I just love the intimacy involved in him being above me or on top of me and looking into each others' face! Anyway...not sure if Baggy meant "blech" about his own dislike of that position due to being on his arms or if he meant it as in, its boring? All I can say is, NO position is EVER boring if you are doing it right! :0)
But I also loved those 3-D model pictures, Baggy! Thanks a lot for making me all turned on at work though...dammit!
DQ
But I also loved those 3-D model pictures, Baggy! Thanks a lot for making me all turned on at work though...dammit!
It occurred to me afterwards that the moderators might consider them inappropriate. I was intending to be instructional / educational, and thought they'd be a lot better than me trying to describe it (and no, I don't do stick figures either -- that's Spellfire's department).
Hopefully, no one is offended. DQ, go take a shower.
-- B.
But not only the 3-D models were on the front page...there is also a blonde naked girl with a catgirl mask on and a whip in her hand! Instructional? Yeah, it instructed me to now have visions of blonde boobs in my head all day, PLUS the 3-D models.
Again, thanks a lot, and there's no shower here at work, and even if there was, I wouldn't go in there to COOL DOWN.
DQ
No offense at all! The pictures were helpful. Really!!
Geh...with my poor vision, I generally have the screen partially magnified and with all colors inverted (for white on black text). I didn't even notice cat-girl.
Sorry, DQ.
I'm not laughing at you, really, I'm not....
Baggy! Now I'm giggling again... I hope you clear your cache every day! I'm assuming you're at work...
Well Baggy...go back to the page and enlarge the upper left hand screen for a peek at cat girl! You deserve to be stuck with this image now that I am!
DQ
OK, I just went back to look at the pictures again. Did you realize that they ROTATE? I am dying laughing. And, I took more than a nanosecond to check out catgirl... she is pretty hot!
Too darn funny.
She's too skinny for my personal tastes: give me a woman who is warm (body and personality), a little plump, and -very- curvaceous.....Oh, wait! I've got that!
-- B.
Man...I'm gonna get banned here...
Never said she was my taste....just that I'm now stuck with the blonde boobs in my head here at my desk! Taste has nothing to do with it when you get a naked chick on your screen when you weren't expecting it. Dammit. Thanks again. Now I have to go wash my mind out with soap before Mr. DQ starts asking me why I'm distracted when I get home....
(just teasin' ya Baggy....)
DQ
Now that I've completely corrupted LG's thread....
One final note regarding this position discussion:
Obviously, every couple is going to have a different "anatomical match-up" during intercourse. So what works really well my wife and myself may not work you and your H. We've also noted that as we age, and especially as my wife experienced each additional childbirth, that things changed enough for us to have to make modifications to what "worked" for us previously and even go exploring for something new when an old position stopped working for either one of us. Don't be afraid to explore!
A healty sex-life should be a combination of the tried-and-true and the familiar with the occasional foray into the new or the exotic. My wife and I have about 3-4 familiar 'routines' that work well for us and that we can fall into easily now, but at least once every couple of weeks or so, I take us into 'experimental' territory either in my approach, location, or actions. Sometimes it works, and sometimes we end up laughing over the flop, but it's still fun and intimate. When it works well, it might even be placed in the 'routine' catagory for a bit, only to be displaced later on down the road when it gets old.
Yes, I know that when you are trying to recover an SSM, all of the above may sound like a pipe-dream. But you can get there, little by little. As DQ says, -communication- between partners about SEX (gasp!) and about what each person likes, doesn't like, or wants to potentially explore is essential. It may feel incredibly awkward for both of you in the beginning, but with a few months of practice, you'll be surprise at what either of you can bring up as a topic of discussion or just a quick question / comment.
We have routines, too! Complete with double back tuck dismount, costumes, and music!
(sorry, couldn't resist)
DQ
(and no, I don't do stick figures either -- that's Spellfire's department)
Ha! Just for you man...
o~
=|
o--\-<
o
~o_<<\
<
o
o-|-\
///\
Did I kill this thread with my stick figures?
What's up lately LG?
Things are great! Starting a new thread because nothing should dilute the impact of the stick figure finale of this thread...