Tell me exactly what I did wrong.

[Lillieperl]

I'm sure it was something...

Yesterday morning at my bf's mom's apartment, he started getting very snappy and tense with me (right after I wrote that lovely post ), telling me to back off, not say anything, don't ask him for anything, etc.

So I got myself out to my house... which was a chore. Later he came out and brought the doggies, who had been alone at his house. (Now we have THREE residences to navigate!) He stayed about an hour, made a fire, and left saying he would be back today with T-Day leftovers. I don't have much to eat in the house, having gone through my supply of canned soup and blue & white macaroni and cheese. He said he'd be out "after lunch," which I translated into "around 4:00 pm."

Sure enough, about 3:00 pm he called and said his mom was feeling fragile today and he might not make it out here. I didn't say "I've been waiting all day for turkey leftovers and don't have much to eat in my house," because he then commenced to complain about all the stuff he has to do. Go by his mom's house (her real house) and pick up some stuff, go to the grocery store, get back, make her dinner-- and by the way, "Are you [Lil] okay? Do you need anything?"

Well, yeah, I could use some stuff, but how do you say to someone who has just finished complaining about all the errands he has to run and all the tasks he has to do that, yeah, you'd like him to go to the grocery store for you and bring you stuff out here. (The round trip from his house to my house and back again is about an hour and a half.)

He asked me to give him a grocery list, on the one hand, and ALSO asked me if I had enough supplies in case he didn't make it out here today. If I gave him a grocery list, it would have some refrigerated and frozen items on it, and I don't want those to sit around until he is able to come here.

So I said, "If you do get around to coming out here today, call me right before, and I'll tell you the stuff to get me." It would all be from Whole Foods, which is very near his house and right on the way. (The retirement home is also near his house.)

I didn't say, "Oh, I'm perfectly fine. I have everything I need." I DID say, "I can manage okay," which is true. I have peanut butter and crackers and canned sardines and eggs-- I'm not going to starve or anything-- I just don't have stuff that I would like to eat... mostly T-Day leftovers.

Anyway, so I said (this turned out to be the wrong thing to say), "You have so much to do, I really don't want to add to your to-do list."

He said, "Don't get defensive about it."

Huh?

I said, "I don't want to make your list of things to do any longer than it is."

He got very irritated and said huffily, "Fine! I'll talk to you later!" and hung up.

Was I supposed to say, "Yes, please come out and bring me some leftovers?" and then hear the irritated sigh in his voice when I become one more demanding woman in his life?

If he were gracious about it ("It's no trouble. I don't mind. I hate to think of you sitting out there all alone eating peanut butter crackers. If I can make it, I certainly will," etc.), but he's so businesslike, no-nonsense, martyr-ish, and frankly, what I call rude.

I refuse to be another nuisance item on his list of nuisance items!

Being around him and his mom the day after Thanksgiving, I can see that just about every time she opens her mouth it's to ask him for something or to tell him to do something. It's in a very conversational tone... but it gets old after a while. A lot of people would probably just let her rattle on and ignore her with her constant list of requests and just wait til a few of them accumulated and do them together, but he does hop every time she says anything.

God, I hate being slapped with the demanding female label... I'm so low-maintenance, it's pathetic.

If anyone's around today, I'd appreciate an outsider's opinion of the above. Thanks.

[OG_Lou]

Lil, sorry the good of yesterday turned sour.

Did you say anything wrong? I doubt it.

From all of the stories about you and him, what happened sounds on the low edge respectable but with in his MO. Think a non-multitasker who has trouble estimating the time it takes to do things when thinking of your bf.

About the food, it sounds like a good time to order pizza and I think you said the pizza place is a long way from your house. If so call them anyway and tell them you miss the left-over's from TG dinner and want something to make up for the loss.

Lou

[Kettricken]

Sometimes there is no right way to say it. I don't see that you said anything wrong, unless you said it in a really "poor pitiful me" tone of voice, which doesn't sound like you ...

The only guilt trip involved is the one he's treating himself to. Sounds like he knows damned well he's treating you shabbily but at the same time feels totally overloaded with trying to respond flawlessly to his mom's needs/demands and is frustrated because he feels caught in the middle and overstretched. Even though you're NOT being demanding, you get the sharp end because you are one of the things he's feeling pressured about, so you're involved in his guilt/martyr complex whether you want to be there or not ... and he'd rather get snappy with you than his mom.

This sucks because it's reasonable to expect your SO to BE THERE for you when you're incapacitated, but you might want to remove yourself from this equation as much as possible for the time being .... do you have much of a support system where you live? Friends, neighbors, family, church community .... anyone who'd be more than happy to do a store run etc for you for awhile? Last resort, there's always the pizza delivery as per Lou; some places have grocery delivery too, although again I don't know your situation.

[Dom R]

Sure enough, about 3:00 pm he called and said his mom was feeling fragile today and he might not make it out here. I didn't say "I've been waiting all day for turkey leftovers and don't have much to eat in my house," because he then commenced to complain about all the stuff he has to do. Go by his mom's house (her real house) and pick up some stuff, go to the grocery store, get back, make her dinner-- and by the way, "Are you [Lil] okay? Do you need anything?"

Sometimes... people wreck their marriage by putting their spouse at the bottom of their priority list, below others.

Other times.. that spouse sabotages the marriage, by putting THEMSELVES at the bottom of thelist.

if you were married to this person, then I would think that the best response to "are you ok? do you need anything?" would be, "well, I was actually looking forward to, and kind of expecting, that you were coming over with leftovers today."

That would have been the nice, no blame, yet communicative way to handle it.

Instead, you chose the "no communication, yet still allocate blame to him" route.
But then again... you're not even married to this guy to start with, so, not sure why you're posting in "the sex-starved marriage" forum about this

....

God, I hate being slapped with the demanding female label... I'm so low-maintenance, it's pathetic.

If you dont "demand", yet harbor all the resentment and entitlement of a "demanding female" without even saying what you want... in some ways, it's WORSE. At least with a demanding female, the guy knows what he's expected to do.

[Lillieperl]

Thanks, Lou and Kett. I am trying to remove myself from the equation as much as possible-- I do think that's a good course for now. Of course, on Monday when I have my ankle surgery, I'm going to spend a couple of days at his mom's apartment so he can help me. And I have had other friends ask if they can go shopping for me. People have a mental block about coming to my house because it is so far from town. I do not want to add to the pressure he's under, partly for his sake and partly for my sake.

you're not even married to this guy to start with, so, not sure why you're posting in "the sex-starved marriage" forum about this

I have two responses to this:

1. Would you explain what my not being married has to do with anything?

and

2. Lil puts thumbs in her ears, wiggles fingers, blows raspberry

If you dont "demand", yet harbor all the resentment and entitlement of a "demanding female" without even saying what you want... in some ways, it's WORSE.

Dom, if you'll read my post carefully, you'll see that I'm not resentful about his not coming out here. I fully understand why he's not coming out here. He's worried to death about his 89-year old mom and her cancer. He's doing everything he can for her, to make her comfortable, to make sure she's eating. I absolutely understand that and I endorse it. It's a beautiful thing. He's in a difficult spot.

What I resent is that he is rude to me. As Kett said

Sounds like he knows damned well he's treating you shabbily but at the same time feels totally overloaded with trying to respond flawlessly to his mom's needs/demands and is frustrated because he feels caught in the middle and overstretched. Even though you're NOT being demanding, you get the sharp end because you are one of the things he's feeling pressured about, so you're involved in his guilt/martyr complex whether you want to be there or not ... and he'd rather get snappy with you than his mom.

I think this is absolutely correct. And I understand it.

I just don't like it when he's rude to me.

Did you read this part:

If he were gracious about it ("It's no trouble. I don't mind. I hate to think of you sitting out there all alone eating peanut butter crackers. If I can make it, I certainly will," etc.), but he's so businesslike, no-nonsense, martyr-ish, and frankly, what I call rude.

There's not much kindness in his approach. He feels like he's too stressed to be kind to me. He as much as said this the other day.

if you were married to this person, then I would think that the best response to "are you ok? do you need anything?" would be, "well, I was actually looking forward to, and kind of expecting, that you were coming over with leftovers today."

That would have been the nice, no blame, yet communicative way to handle it.

Instead, you chose the "no communication, yet still allocate blame to him" route.

This is a very good observation, and with a normal person who's not on a hair trigger, it would probably work... but he's hyper sensitive to anything with the slightest aroma of a demand.

So while saying, "I was looking forward to seeing you and to having leftovers," is exactly true, my past experience is that this would lead to explosive defensiveness on his part, a la, "I'm SORRY! I've got too much to do! I can't please everyone! yaddayaddayadda."

So I just held back. Like I said, it's not his not coming that bothered me, it was the rude way that when I did him the favor of NOT making a demand, he reacted by hanging up on me.

When I said I didn't want to add to his to-do list, I would have liked something like, "Oh, I appreciate that... I DO have a lot to do today. I'll be sure and come tomorrow with leftovers." Instead he hung up on me.

THIS is the situation: When I try to make things easy on him, he seems to resent it. When I express my demands, he resents it, too. He likes it best when I'm around, don't say anything, and appreciate whatever he does without expecting anything and without wanting any adjustment to what he chose to do. THAT keeps the peace.

[MJontheMend]

Maybe you should have said cheerfully something like "I WANT you to go to Whole Foods and get me the Triple Chocolate Mousse and the Mac n Cheese with the rabbit on the box, spiral not straight, and some organic Honey Crisp apples, be sure to check for bruises...but I don't EXPECT you to do anything so just relax and take care of your other priorities. I'll still be here whenever you show up unless some sex-craved broken ankle fetishist breaks into my house and steals me away to make use of in a manner I will leave to your imagination."

[Lillieperl]

Pretty good answer, Mojo.



ETA: Okay, I just phoned him. He was at the grocery store (the regular one, not Whole Foods) buying stuff for his mom. I said, "Okay, I've figured this out." He said, "What?" I said, "I want you to come out and bring me turkey and stuffing, but I don't expect you to, because I know you have a lot to do right now." There was a pause. He said, "Okay?" with a puzzled tone in his voice. I didn't say anything. Finally, he said, "I'm working on getting out there tomorrow." Then I asked him to buy me four cans of Campbell's Chunky Sirloin Burger soup. He looked for it, but there was only one can. It's very tasty-- the best of the Campbell's Chunky group.

I a normal relationship, my calling to "patch" things up and offer the olive branch would build good will. It would be like the silt that accumulates on the earth and the reason that the present city of Rome is 50 feet higher than the floor of the Roman Forum.

With him, good will does not seem to build up. It's sort of a zero-balance financing system. You continually start at zero and don't seem to accumulate any credit, good feelings, good will, benefit of the doubt, etc.

[Dom R]

So I just held back. Like I said, it's not his not coming that bothered me, it was the rude way that when I did him the favor of NOT making a demand, he reacted by hanging up on me.

he wasnt nice, by hanging up on you.
you werent nice, by not communicating with him.
he could obviously tell that you were extremely huffy with him somehow. but you refused to communicate.
In some ways, his hanging up, was a defensive move.(HE probably saw it that way, anyways)

PS: You "dont make a demand" on him all the time.
Right now.. you're "not making a demand" on him.
and now
and now
and...
get the point?

I think you should only expect gratitude from him, when you actually DO something, that he is actually AWARE of.

He had no idea what you wanted. he knew that you wanted "something", but you didnt ask for it.

That doesnt give you brownie points, for "not asking for anything".
It actually detracts from your "nice, easy to get along with girlfriend" bank, for not sharing what you'd like from him.

There's "demanding" and there's "asking for a favour".
I'm sure he doesnt like "demands".
I'm guessing he doesnt have much problem with favours.
Not sure why you would even want to be around someone, who had a problem with you even asking for a favor.

[Lillieperl]

BUT-- remember, his LL is Acts of Service. He WANTS to do things for me. He'd rather think of it himself instead of having me ask, but he will do favors...

I just don't like the rudeness.

He had no idea what you wanted.

His parting words last night were "I'll be back tomorrow with turkey."

[Dom R]

BUT-- remember, his LL is Acts of Service. He WANTS to do things for me. He'd rather think of it himself instead of having me ask, but he will do favors...

errr.. seems like you have the whole "love languages" thing backwards.

"his love language" is supposed to indicate what he would like YOU, to do for HIM. Not "what He would like to do for You".

sometimes, people "speak" to others, what they would like to receive.

but sometimes, they dont.

[Lillieperl]

Dom, you've got it partly right.

YOUR Love Language is the way you habitually express love and generally people make the assumption that others' LL's are the same as theirs. The idea with this book is that you can learn your partner's LL, which may be different from yours.

From the Gary Chapman website:

Your emotional love language and the language of your spouse may be as different as Chinese from English. No matter how hard you try to express love in English, if your spouse understands only Chinese, you will never understand how to love each other.

So he's saying that you both express your love in your Love Language AND want love expressed in the same language.


From amazon:

A seasoned marriage counselor says people feel most loved in a marriage in one of five ways: quality time, words of affirmation, gifts, acts of service, and physical touch. Though we have a primary love language [Lil: My bf's is Acts of Service], we can learn a second language so that our spouse's needs are met.

From an amazon review:

Often, we tend to give love in the languages we are most fluent in, which usually ends up being the languages that fill up our love tank. This would be why a husband who does yard work, dishes, car maintenance, etc. (Acts of Service) is floored when his wife says "You never show me you love me. You never cuddle with me, or caress my hair, or make the first move for sex." (Physical Touch). Or, "Why don't you spend time with me? Why do you work so much?" (Quality Time)... (etc., etc...) ...But, if her language is primarily Acts of Service, she'll feel so loved and honored because her husband does so many things for her, and thus feels "full" in her love tank.

[SouthernGirl]

Yeah, Lil, WHY are you not posting in the SEXSTARVEDSINNERSLIVINGINSIN.COM board with your problems?

*cracks self up*

Where was I?

No, you didn't do anything wrong. But Don, expressing himself in his usual adroit way, does have a point. It's impossible to keep things from leaking into our voices, and no matter how politely you phrased it it he will have "heard" that you did wish for him to come over the same day. Thus, you have a disconnect between what was said and what was "heard" which gave him an excuse to be grumpy.

Straightforward, as for example Mojo's reply, has the benefit of at least making him feel like an a$$, whether he admits it or not.

[sgctxok]

Actually, you did just fine and very good.

He set that conversation to go that way. I think you did a wonderful job in both conversations. Because now you've shown him how to please you, you've been honest, you've kept a peaceful tone, and you weren't demanding.

The only thing is, you, like a lot of us, are selling yourself short. Settling.

I've seen you on the boards. You're scary intelligent. Well read. Compassionate. Passionate. You're awesome and you can get awesome.

[Lillieperl]

Thanks, sg. [Lil blows kiss.] Your words mean a lot. You're right that he did set up the convo to go that way.



SouthernGirl, you crack me up, too! Actually we don't live together as such. We live in our own houses and spend time together, often spending the night, but not always. And we're not having sex, so we might not even be sinners!

Bf has his own house, his mom's apartment, and now that he's bought that property next to me, he's got a cabin there, which he is busy furnishing... plus, he runs to his mom's real house to get stuff. TOO MANY houses! Like the typical 7, he's spread really thin... and [Lil waves at Mojo] Mojo, by having so many "homes," he's not at home anywhere, thus is "homeless"! Ta-da! Just like you.

[SouthernGirl]

Thanks, sg. [Lil blows kiss.] Your words mean a lot. You're right that he did set up the convo to go that way.



SouthernGirl, you crack me up, too! Actually we don't live together as such. We live in our own houses and spend time together, often spending the night, but not always. And we're not having sex, so we might not even be sinners!

Bf has his own house, his mom's apartment, and now that he's bought that property next to me, he's got a cabin there, which he is busy furnishing... plus, he runs to his mom's real house to get stuff. TOO MANY houses! Like the typical 7, he's spread really thin... and [Lil waves at Mojo] Mojo, by having so many "homes," he's not at home anywhere, thus is "homeless"! Ta-da! Just like you.

Wow, in that case, we need a whole new category.

The LIVINGINSIN part will have to go if you have different houses. I was going to suggest SEXSTARVEDFORNICATORS.ORG but if you're not having sex at all you don't qualify as fornicators and don't get to post on their board. Sorry.

I really have to think about this.

Wait, I know! You're dating, thus being sex-starved is not an option because you're not supposed to have sex at all!

Here you were thinking you were sex starved, and you're not! Everything is peachy!

(((((Lil)))))

I must admit my thoughts ran along the lines of "she can do so much better than that idiot" but I ain't sayin' nuthin.

<------ SG, picture of admirable restraint and silence.

[Lillieperl]

Yeah... I probably can... I must be One Sick Puppy...

[Dom R]

Dom, you've got it partly right.
....
From the Gary Chapman website:

Your emotional love language and the language of your spouse may be as different as Chinese from English. No matter how hard you try to express love in English, if your spouse understands only Chinese, you will never understand how to love each other.

So he's saying that you both express your love in your Love Language AND want love expressed in the same language.

nope, _you_ still dont get it, Lillie you're misunderstanding Chapman.

Using the "you speak english, they speak chinese" metaphor that you quoted, and extending it:

If you want your spouse to understand that you love them, in a meaningful way to THEM, you will learn how to say "i love you" in chinese.

However,
chinese is only describing the way that they need to HEAR "i love you".
It is not automatically the way that they express "i love you" to others. Nor is it "supposed" to be.

If they love YOU, they're suppose to learn how to say "i love you" in english, because that's the language that is most meaningful to _you_. If it was someone else (ie a child, or parent of theirs), they may need to learn a different language entirely.


He emphasises that, if you want to fully say "i love you" to another person, you need to learn THEIR language, to say it TO them.

It's not about learning their language, so that you can interpret how they say "i love you".

On the contrary;
for purposes of having people telling YOU that 'they love you'; it's important for you to learn which "language" means the most to you, and then _teach them your language_, so that it will then feel more meaningful to you.

the most important concept of the entire book, is that each spouse is supposed to learn the other person's "Love language", and speak it to them.(ie: find out how they like it, and then give it to them how they like it)
It is most definately not, "each spouse is supposed to learn how to interpret the other person's 'language', and learn to like it the way they say it".


Besides which, as I tried to mention in my prior post... The way you like to hear /i love you/, may NOT be the same way you express that feeling to others.
Some people go by "do under others as you would like them to do to you". but some people do not.

Hypothetical example: A mothering type, may feel the most comfortable doing "acts of service" for those she loves. HOWEVER... she may feel most loved, when she receives jewelry, and uncomfortable if others do "acts of service" to her, because she feels that it's "her job" to do that sort of thing, and they are userping her role.

[Lillieperl]

Reading comprehension seems to be a bit of a problem for you. When you reply to a post, it's often clear that you didn't read it correctly. I'm not surprised you're reading Chapman wrong. It's okay. Doesn't mean you're a bad person.

[MJontheMend]

This may be totally off the wall but GP is somebody who I would say was very intuitive and he is somebody with a knack for picking up actual languages. My LL is definitely physical touch and therefore I generally like the fact that he is inclined to pet me. However, the other day he told me that he is not at all a touchy/feely person and he wasn't nearly as touchy/feely with other women in his life as he is with me. So pretty much my mission in the dating realm is to turn nice boys into bad boys for sexual physical touch purposes and bad boys into cuddle toys for romantic physical touch purposes. Which is why both mothers and Armed Forces Recruiters should warn men to stay away from the likes of me.


LP, maybe Dom is right and your BF prefers jewelery as a love language. I personally think any Tom Selleck look-a-like would be even better all blinged out.

[Dom R]

You replied to my post, less than 10 minutes after I wrote it.

Did you even read it, lillie?
Or did you just stop after I wrote, "you're misunderstanding chapman" ?

The interpretation you are suggesting for Chapman's book, is self-contradictory. I can go into more details, if you can actually have an open mind ,about the possibility that you are wrong.

[MrsNOP]

But then again... you're not even married to this guy to start with, so, not sure why you're posting in "the sex-starved marriage" forum about this

From your sigfile:

"My current status: separated"

Buffing up my shiny new Cracker Jack SSM badge and looking at the approved criteria on my People Who Should Be and Should Not Be Here Official SSM Participant List - I find that you may not meet our stringent requirements. I also find that I don't meet our stringent requirements. Shall we quietly hustle each other out of the forum, heads bowed and shoulders slumped in shame and hope no one noticed our misuse of the forum? You bring the rope and I'll bring the burlap bag and we'll capture and drag Ms. Lil out of the sanctuary before someone is harmed by the possible contamination. :Q

MrsNOP - will not join any club that would have me as a member.

[Imconfused0807]

Buffing up my shiny new Cracker Jack SSM badge and looking at the approved criteria on my People Who Should Be and Should Not Be Here Official SSM Participant List - I find that you may not meet our stringent requirements. I also find that I don't meet our stringent requirements. Shall we quietly hustle each other out of the forum, heads bowed and shoulders slumped in shame and hope no one noticed our misuse of the forum? You bring the rope and I'll bring the burlap bag and we'll capture and drag Ms. Lil out of the sanctuary before someone is harmed by the possible contamination. :Q

Does this mean I have to leave as well?

[MrsNOP]

the most important concept of the entire book, is that each spouse is supposed to learn the other person's "Love language", and speak it to them.(ie: find out how they like it, and then give it to them how they like it)
It is most definately not, "each spouse is supposed to learn how to interpret the other person's 'language', and learn to like it the way they say it".

I don't recall Lil expressing what the most important concept of the entire book was, nor did she assert that you were supposed to learn how to interpret... You seem to be arguing against points she never made.

Her experience with her BF has revealed that he expresses his love/affection via acts of service. Chapman wrote: "We tend to speak our primary love language, and we become confused when our spouse doesn't understand what we are communicating." So, while the expression and the desired LL may not be identical 100% of the time, it appears that the originator of the concept points out the tendency for the them to be the same a high percentage of the time.

Lil has the maturity to recognize, accept and give credit for her BF's acts of service even if they aren't her primary preference. Doesn't mean that she wouldn't prefer to receive personal, well-thought out gifts from him. But, there's nothing wrong with choosing not to spit on or discount what he does offer, nor is it an indication that she doesn't get the concept.

MrsNOP -

[MrsNOP]

Does this mean I have to leave as well?

Nah. We can be the big tent forum, so I proclaim from Corri's COTUC with the authority invested in me by my buffed up, shiny new badge that there shall be no dis-memberments. Anyone that disagrees will be whopped up-side the head with Lil's ankle cast.

MrsNOPogo - If nominated I will not run. If elected I will not serve.

[Kettricken]

However, the other day he told me that he is not at all a touchy/feely person and he wasn't nearly as touchy/feely with other women in his life as he is with me.

OT sorry, but whoa, dude, big red flag. IMHO.

(OK, none of the foregoing was even vaguely proper english, but you get the point.)

[Imconfused0807]

Dom, if you'll read my post carefully, you'll see that I'm not resentful about his not coming out here. I fully understand why he's not coming out here. He's worried to death about his 89-year old mom and her cancer. He's doing everything he can for her, to make her comfortable, to make sure she's eating. I absolutely understand that and I endorse it. It's a beautiful thing. He's in a difficult spot.

What I resent is that he is rude to me.

Lill,
Jumping in a little late here and throwing my 2 cents in {Oh sh!t, those were Canadian coins..better hold onto those until I check the exchange rate } I'm not offering up any excuses for the bf to be rude and I see nothing in your convo's that would lead me to believe you did anything wrong. A few years back, FIL was recovering from a stroke then into a nursing home, MIL had fell and broke her hip..so Miss IC and the girls went down for a month or so to help out...or was it Miss IC and 1 girl with the other not born yet ?? {I know, I know, I've heard it before..."hope your d!ck is longer than your memory" ha ha...sit down !} Ok, now where was I before I was so rudely interupted? Oh yea, Miss IC and our 6 daughters went down to MIL's to help out. I think she felt like she was being pulled in all directions similar to Lill's bf. It seemed like every phone conversation we had was very similar to Lill's...a lot of down right rude comments from Miss IC {sorry Miss IC..but you were a b!tch...I'll be posting for awhile with a black eye } Usually my typical response to her rudeness would be... "I love you too." Sometimes it would make her realize what she was doing...other times it would get me a loud click (slam !) and then a dial tone

Ok, I've pretty much forgotten the whole damn point of my story..goes back to that memory thing Lill, if this is somewhat of an isolated thing with the mom (isolated as in since mom's health really starting to deteriorate) I would be half tempted to cut him some slack. I would let it be known that while you can understand it, you still don't appreciate it. Put the ball back in his court and see what he does with it.

[Imconfused0807]

Anyone that disagrees will be whopped up-side the head with Lil's ankle cast.

MrsNOPogo - If nominated I will not run. If elected I will not serve.

Either Lill's cast..or I'm glad to announce that I've been down sized into a smaller knee brace...so I have this large cumbersome one I can donate to the cause

MrsNop, don't you still have that large Neanderthal club..or did we determine that was a 3-wood ? Happy golfing

[Dom R]

But then again... you're not even married to this guy to start with, so, not sure why you're posting in "the sex-starved marriage" forum about this

From your sigfile:

"My current status: separated"

Buffing up my shiny new Cracker Jack SSM badge and looking at the approved criteria on my People Who Should Be and Should Not Be Here Official SSM Participant List - I find that you may not meet our stringent requirements. I also find that I don't meet our stringent requirements.

i was not saying "no one who isnt 'in a sex starved marriage' should 'participate'".

I was pointing out that the topic of threads, is supposed to follow the subject of the forum that they are posted in?
lillie started this thread here. so if you substitute,
"not sure why you're starting a thread in", for "not sure why you're posting in", perhaps the context is clearer.

[Dom R]

Her experience with her BF has revealed that he expresses his love/affection via acts of service.
....
there's nothing wrong with choosing not to spit on or discount what he does offer, nor is it an indication that she doesn't get the concept.

What she said in her post, went further than that, though.
There was a whole context/concept in her posts that, to Lillie, someone's love language defines both how they want to hear "i love you" and how they speak it.
That they are one and the same.

Here's where she explicitly goes even further opposite from what the book says:

YOUR Love Language is the way you habitually express love and generally people make the assumption that others' LL's are the same as theirs.

The first part of what she wrote, is completely backwards from the "cause and effect" from the book (The "and generally..." bit meshes with the book, though)

The book defines your love language, as the way that you want to RECEIVE love. Not "the way you habitually _express_ love".

Yes, I completely agree, that the book mentions that people by default, most often "habitually express love" in their love language. However, someone's "love language" according to Chapman, is defined as how they want to receive it, not the way that they express it.

The way that they express love, tends to line up with their love language. but it does not define their love language.

[MrsNOP]

I was pointing out that the topic of threads, is supposed to follow the subject of the forum that they are posted in?
lillie started this thread here. so if you substitute,
"not sure why you're starting a thread in", for "not sure why you're posting in", perhaps the context is clearer.

So, you have an issue with the topic of "Tell me exactly what I did wrong" because it isn't about sex or you have an issue with Lil starting a topic on the SSM forum because she doesn't have the "M" part?

In what forum do you propose she be allowed to post?

I don't want to overwhelm you with the reprobate rainwater that you are currently soaking in, but on this forum over the past 4 years we have had sex-starved boyfriends, sex-starved girlfriends, sex-starved engaged men, sex-starved engaged women, sex-starved fiances that lived together, sex-starved fiances that didn't live together, sex-starved divorcees, sex-starved separated but still married, sex-starved still married in the process of divorce, sex-starved spouses dealing with infidelity, a hasn't been here in a while but was a favorite of mine called Stubborn Dyke (there's a hint there), sex-starved Catholics, sex-starved fundamentalists, sex-starved Jews, sex-starved agnostics, and we even allowed a couple of sex-starved foreigners in here.

If you look at the signup date of several of the current participants you'll find they've been posting here for several years. Communities build over time. Deaths, births, marriages, divorces, abuse, adultery, mental illnesses, personality disorders, injuries, diseases, pets, work, laughter, tears and more have been shared and discussed here. Forum drift, like thread drift, happens.

The people here have formed varying relationships over several years and probably are going to be about as amenable as I am currently feeling at the idea of a relative newcomer trying to send participants off the forum. Lil and I have butted heads a few times over the years, but she is a valued participant and fellow searcher who has added much benefit to me and to this forum. And I would go Yosimite Sam all over anyone's a$$ that tried to make her feel unwelcome.

MrsNOP -

[Lillieperl]

there shall be no dis-memberments

That reminds me. I need to put a piece of adhesive tape on my good leg with a note that says: "Not this one. The other one." just to make sure they "fix" the correct ankle. When you're asleep, they can do anything to you.

Thanks for the validation, Mrs. N.

Would you or someone straighten this out: Am I totally off-base or doesn't the LL concept mean that your LL is the one you habitually use to EXPRESS your love AS WELL AS the one in which you want love expressed to you?

Thus an Acts of Service person usually expresses love by washing your car, fixing your favorite dinner, etc., and if you perform Acts of Service for this person, they also feel loved. The idea of the book is that you may perform Acts of Service for your spouse because that's YOUR LL, but if your partner's LL is physical touch, they won't feel loved unless they get hugs, kisses, and sex.

So the Acts of Service person needs to learn to EXPRESS love in physical touch, because their partner will not FEEL loved with a clean car, a mopped kitchen floor, and a freezer full of homemade lasagna. This is so clear to me. I don't see anything contradictory, but I MIGHT BE WRONG.

Dom, I'm a very fast reader.

IC, alas, bf's habit of speaking to me rudely goes back to day one in our R. It has always been a problem. I've asked him over and over again to speak to me in a civil tone, not that put-upon, sighing, eye-rolling, "you're a nuisance" tone of voice. It's worse now that all this stuff is going on with his mom. If it were just these days, I would indeed cut him some slack.

That's one of the major problems in this R, I'm always cutting him some slack because of circumstances in his life. He tends to go from one crisis to the next... and they're all real crises, not imaginary ones-- being laid off from work, open heart surgery, quitting drinking, being sued by ex-wife, now mom has cancer. I cut him slack pretty much constantly, but he doesn't seem to be able to cut me any slack as I sit here somewhat immobilized.

Did I mention that I'm One Sick Puppy.

[Imconfused0807]

That reminds me. I need to put a piece of adhesive tape on my good leg with a note that says: "Not this one. The other one." just to make sure they "fix" the correct ankle.

Yea, but make sure you make the note very illegible so they can read it...kind of like the presciptions they write

When you're asleep, they can do anything to you.

I guess with me, this would all depend on what the women nurses or doctors look like...at hot sexy one or better yet 2 or 3 could probably do anything they want with me without me caring one bit {hope Miss IC don't read this...if so, ehh...I'll blame it on something }

IC, alas, bf's habit of speaking to me rudely goes back to day one in our R. It has always been a problem. I've asked him over and over again to speak to me in a civil tone, not that put-upon, sighing, eye-rolling, "you're a nuisance" tone of voice. It's worse now that all this stuff is going on with his mom. If it were just these days, I would indeed cut him some slack.

That's one of the major problems in this R, I'm always cutting him some slack because of circumstances in his life. He tends to go from one crisis to the next... and they're all real crises, not imaginary ones-- being laid off from work, open heart surgery, quitting drinking, being sued by ex-wife, now mom has cancer. I cut him slack pretty much constantly, but he doesn't seem to be able to cut me any slack as I sit here somewhat immobilized.

Ok, maybe you just answered your own question...maybe you're cutting him too much slack and he's taking advantage of that. Do an 180 and tell him WTF?

Did I mention that I'm One Sick Puppy.

LOL. I couldn't find it, but somewhere on the board I was called the same thing Welcome to the dog pound Lil

[Lillieperl]

Do an 180 and tell him WTF?

From time to time I do that and then he really blows up: "I guess I'm just a LOSER then! I failed! I made a mistake! I'm just an a$$hole!" This shouted while he paces around the room waving his arms.


Hmmm, I'm seeing a pattern here. They older man I went with before I married my H used to do something like this (he didn't shout, however). He'd say, "Well, if I'm such a pi$$-poor son-of-a-b*tch, I don't see why you bother to hang around with me!"

That's the pre-emptive strike in lieu of a simple apology.



Sometimes bf does apologize later... he never used to do that. Is that progress? (Rhetorical question.)

[Imconfused0807]

Do an 180 and tell him WTF?

From time to time I do that and then he really blows up: "I guess I'm just a LOSER then! I failed! I made a mistake! I'm just an a$$hole!" This shouted while he paces around the room waving his arms.

My response to that would be something similar to..."No, I said WTF? But if those size 10 1/2 's fit, by all means, feel free to put them on." And then hobble off to get some of that Campbells chunky soup

[MrsNOP]

Thanks for the validation, Mrs. N.

I'm just trying to justify a good reason to wear my Yosemite Sam outfit and use the word "varmint".

Would you or someone straighten this out: Am I totally off-base or doesn't the LL concept mean that your LL is the one you habitually use to EXPRESS your love AS WELL AS the one in which you want love expressed to you?

It's that emphasis/nuance thing that tends to rear its warty head in many a (so often male/female) conversation. Not that this ever happens to NOP and me - :blink blink:. I think you and DOM are both right, just a different focus.

As a self-help book, the goal is (has it right there in the title on the book cover) "How to Express Heartfelt Commitment to Your Mate". That's the emphasis DOM is underlining. Some excerpts from the book:

"The important thing is to speak the love language of your spouse." DOM's point and one he seems to think you aren't getting or making of enough import.

"My conclusion after twenty years of marriage counseling is that there are basically five emotional love languages - five ways people speak and understand emotional love." <...> "The children who feel loved by their parents and peers will develop a primary emotional love language based on their unique psychological makeup and the way their parents and other significant persons expressed love to them. They will speak and understand one primary love language." Your point that DOM thinks is in error? or is being overemphasized.

So, you both speak and receive via love languages.

It is important to know how your spouse can receive/hear your love. It is also important to understand how your spouse expresses love so that you can receive their love even when it's not in the shape you prefer. To not understand it will result in massive destruction in the relationship.

Spouse's expressing love languages that aren't understood by the other spouse will often be viewed negatively and it will actually destroy love feelings:

Love expressed by sex & physical touch - "I'm nothing to you but a way to get your rocks off, you don't care for me at all as a person and you're always pawing me."

Love expressed by acts of service - "She fills her life with meaningless chores and would rather scrub the toilet than spend time with me."

Love expressed by affirmative words - "He's always trying to butter me up and saying bull$hit things that he doesn't mean."

Love expressed by quality time - "I can never get away from her, she follows me from room to room, wants me to sit next to her on the couch hour after hour and tries to control me every time I try to do something with my friends."

Love expressed by gifts - "He never talks to me and treats me like a prostitute he can buy with trinkets and widgets."

I need to put a piece of adhesive tape on my good leg with a note that says: "Not this one. The other one." just to make sure they "fix" the correct ankle. When you're asleep, they can do anything to you

Tape can be removed. I would also suggest a water-proof Sharpie mark with arrow, star and the words "THIS is the right one" on the other leg. When are you scheduled for the procedure?

MrsNOP -

[Corri]

I'm sure it was something...

You say that he has talked rudely to you since day one. You haven't had sex in some time. Long time.

That sounds like ineffective boundaries to me.

He treats you the way he does because you allow it.

[OG_Lou]

Lil
The idea of the book is that you may perform Acts of Service for your spouse because that's YOUR LL, but if your partner's LL is physical touch, they won't feel loved unless they get hugs, kisses, and sex.

Or, if I perform acts of service for BB she will give me more PT, sex, kisses, and words of appreciation.

Wrong!

Lou

[OG_Lou]

I would also suggest a water-proof Sharpie mark with arrow, star and the words "THIS is the right one" on the other leg. When are you scheduled for the procedure?

The day before my hernia surgery, the Dr. marked my surgery area with a Sharpie and initialed it. The pre surgery team looked for the Sharpie marks because it is SOP.

[OG_Lou]

Mrs NOP
Spouse's expressing love languages that aren't understood by the other spouse will often be viewed negatively and it will actually destroy love feelings:

Love expressed by sex & physical touch - "I'm nothing to you but a way to get your rocks off, you don't care for me at all as a person and you're always pawing me."

Love expressed by acts of service - "She fills her life with meaningless chores and would rather scrub the toilet than spend time with me."

Love expressed by affirmative words - "He's always trying to butter me up and saying bull$hit things that he doesn't mean."

Love expressed by quality time - "I can never get away from her, she follows me from room to room, wants me to sit next to her on the couch hour after hour and tries to control me every time I try to do something with my friends."

Love expressed by gifts - "He never talks to me and treats me like a prostitute he can buy with trinkets and widgets."

BTDT.

[blackfoot]

Lil

What you did wrong was read faster the the approved reading speed limit.

Happy belated Bday to you and Karen. Sorry to hear about your ankle.

Mrs. Nop said 'varmint' LMAO.

[Lillieperl]

When are you scheduled for the procedure?

I'm going into the hospital Monday around 2 pm. I think the surgery is at 4:30. Then I'll spend the night there and go to bf's mom's apt the next day for a couple of days.

Haven't spent the night in hospital (as a patient) since I had my tonsils out at age 10.

[MJontheMend]

Haven't spent the night in hospital (as a patient) since I had my tonsils out at age 10.

Remember, ask for two gowns and extra jello.

[Imconfused0807]

Remember, ask for two gowns and extra jello.

Mojo, I'm a little disappointed hearing this come from you...personally, Lil, I think you should go with 1 gown with the open backside in hopes of attracting some young doctor And take along a doggie bag in case bf still won't help ya out when you return home

Damn...Jello actually sounds good right now, Thanks Mojo ! First thing in nearly 2 weeks that actually sounds appetizing to me