Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: lostlove getting what I wanted but no liking it - 09/13/06 02:09 PM
past thread in SSM

OK so it's been a while since I've written anything which for me is usually a sign that things are going OK and/or that I'm just busy with the life I went and got myself.

H has been more attentive physically and attempting to be more interested in having me around (ie. asking me to sit on the front porch with him for a few min when he arrives home from work).

All looks as if it's going well (here it comes LL's famous) BUT...I noticed h has been ordering pay per view porno (trying to hide it but I can find it on the tv menu) and when we do have it's very mechanical and not intimate or sensual.

I thought for a bit that maybe it was just me not wanting to get comfortable and let myself be fully there just incase it didn't last (not the length of the encounter but that the encounter wouldn't repeat itself again any time soon). But now I'm starting to think it could just be that we don't have a sensual connection or an intimate connection, h is watching porn getting horny, no longer having an A (maybe his a was a PA after all) and so he thinks he's giving me what I want by being more interested in sex but...

I want to be clear in that I'm not against a good roll in the hay with my h just for the sake of rolling in the hay...but it'd be nice if occassionaly it were more of a mental and physical connection rather than just for the sake of getting off.

here's the issue...I don't want to just start saying no and become one of those dreaded LD wives but I don't think I can continue to let things go this way.

How can I address the issue with h without being met with the "you'll never be satisfied no matter what I do" response. In his eyes...I'm getting what I had always complained about not getting...trouble is in my eyes I'm not...it wasn't just about a lack of sex it was about the lack of physical intimacy (cuddling on the couch, massages, hugs, long kisses that lead to nothing but a warm feeling that maybe you'll do something about later that evening etc, talking, connecting)...

am I screwed simply because I'm now getting screwed?

LL
Posted By: Andrew_B Re: getting what I wanted but no liking it - 09/13/06 03:34 PM
I'm sorry to hear of your situation. Porno is as addictive as any drug. It took me a year of hard work to get sober from it. While addicted, it is near impossible to keep an intimate/sensual connection open with your partner. One consequence of this addiction is 'false intimacy', to hide your shame and cover your guilt. Been there, done that.

It is critical for the future of your relationship that he curb his porn viewing habits once and for all. It won't be easy, but the end result is worth it.
Posted By: MrsNOP Re: getting what I wanted but no liking it - 09/13/06 05:19 PM
Quote:

here's the issue...I don't want to just start saying no and become one of those dreaded LD wives but I don't think I can continue to let things go this way.





So, don't!

Quote:


How can I address the issue with h without being met with the "you'll never be satisfied no matter what I do" response. In his eyes...I'm getting what I had always complained about not getting...trouble is in my eyes I'm not...it wasn't just about a lack of sex it was about the lack of physical intimacy (cuddling on the couch, massages, hugs, long kisses that lead to nothing but a warm feeling that maybe you'll do something about later that evening etc, talking, connecting)...





I wouldn't address it with words, because you're probably right - based on what you've written about the steps he has been taking toward meeting your needs - he probably will feel that he can't win with you.

So, keep your mouth shut. Don't discuss it.

Just take what you want/need. Do with him what you want him to do with you.

Want the sex to be less mechanical? Then step out of the routine, tell him to kick back - you've got some things you would like to do - and proceed to do them.

Is the porn an issue for you?

MrsNOP -
Posted By: lostlove Re: getting what I wanted but no liking it - 09/13/06 05:43 PM
Hi MrsNop

Quote:

Is the porn an issue for you?





It is not so much that the porn is an issue for me...it's that h was never one for it. Always claimed to just not be into that so this "change" worries me a bit.

Why the porn is an issue for me is because I think it may be effecting our sl in a negative way. On the positive side it's making him more interested but on the negative side when we are together I don't feel like it's us, it's just his body and my body. I felt this way before I realized he was renting the porn so it's not me creating the feeling based on that.

Quote:

Want the sex to be less mechanical? Then step out of the routine, tell him to kick back - you've got some things you would like to do - and proceed to do them.




I don't mean mechanical as in predicatbly following a routine...I mean mechanical in that there's no real connection going on..it feels more like a sober one night stand that you really don't want to have...I do get hugged and pecked on the cheek at the end but it just doesn't feel right.

I know we've been through alot but something just feels wrong. If I didn't know about the porn I'd think he was having another A and just stepping up his activity with me to cover for it (a lesson perhaps learned from his last A) and well that leads me to what is probably the crux of it all...I don't believe we've healed from the A + seperation...h has just wanted to keep it in the past and "get over it"...pretend it never happend...don't mention it etc.

LL
Posted By: haphazard Re: getting what I wanted but no liking it - 09/17/06 10:51 AM
Hi LL,

Glad to hear some things have changed for you anyway. I think it is maybe a case of baby steps KWIM. He is at least having sex with you and that is a step in the right direction. Load on the praise (somehow??) and maybe he'll want to do it more and in a more intimate way. Y'know after sex being smily loving W that brings him his coffee in bed in the morning (or whatever), so he gets that cause and effect feeling.

Do you talk at all during sex? Saying stuff can help build up the EC. ILY or you're my one and only or whatever intimate phrase you can think of that builds a connection between the two of you. You don't need to overdo it, just once or twice during the encounter.

I get the sense you are not trusting him? You are worried about the porn and worried the sex is just a cover for what else he might be doing. I can understand that LL. Problem is having these thoughts is sabotaging any EC you could build. Maybe you are right in your suspicions but maybe by acting like you don't feel that way you can build bridges with him that you can't build while you're still holding back. I know how hard it is to put our trust back in someone that has broken that trust but it's a kind of catch-22 situation. He needs to feel that trust coming off you to put himself in the position where he wants to build EC.

Sounds like you are doing better than I am anyhow.

take care

Fran
Posted By: MrsNOP Re: getting what I wanted but no liking it - 09/18/06 01:16 PM
Quote:

I'm getting what I had always complained about not getting...trouble is in my eyes I'm not...it wasn't just about a lack of sex it was about the lack of physical intimacy (cuddling on the couch, massages, hugs, long kisses that lead to nothing but a warm feeling that maybe you'll do something about later that evening etc, talking, connecting)...

am I screwed simply because I'm now getting screwed?





Does he physically avoid you when you're together? If you snuggle up to him on the couch does he stiffen and move away? Are you initiating any of these things or are things so uncomfortable that you are waiting on him to do so? If you have grabbed him for a hug or kiss, does he reject you?

What would you say are your husband's emotional needs? Conversation? Companionship? Expressions of respect?

You know what makes you feel close to him, do you know what makes him feel close to you?

MrsNOP -
Posted By: oneijoe Re: getting what I wanted but no liking it - 09/20/06 10:14 PM
IMO, this is a guilt issue (possibly even instigated by some passive-aggressive behavior from you)...

It's entirely likely he's imagining other women, many women at once, wild situations, etc. during LM. But..frankly, this isn't unusual in men. Men are stimulated visually.

Where you're getting that "there's something missing" feeling is, I believe you're picking up his subconscious guilt in having those fantasies because he feels you would "disapprove" or would feel jealous (true or not).

A suggestion:

Tell him you'd like to watch the adult films WITH him. This will let him know you're OK with it. Even BETTER, bury your inhibitions and attempt to let it stoke YOUR libido and go ahead and play (but not out of obligation - he'll KNOW). You'll find it won't take long before YOU become his primary supplier of pleasure, even in his fantasy world. As that happens, the porno watching will become more rare along with that "something's missing" feeling after LM.
Posted By: lostlove Re: getting what I wanted but no liking it - 09/21/06 04:14 AM
Hi Fran,

Quote:



Glad to hear some things have changed for you anyway. I think it is maybe a case of baby steps KWIM. He is at least having sex with you and that is a step in the right direction.

That's the thing...is he really having sex with me..

Load on the praise (somehow??) and maybe he'll want to do it more and in a more intimate way. Y'know after sex being smily loving W that brings him his coffee in bed in the morning (or whatever), so he gets that cause and effect feeling.

The cause and effect feeling wont work in this scenario because this is different sex

Do you talk at all during sex? Saying stuff can help build up the EC. ILY or you're my one and only or whatever intimate phrase you can think of that builds a connection between the two of you. You don't need to overdo it, just once or twice during the encounter.

I have not been in the habbit of saying ILY since the seperation...I'm not going to say something I don't feel and I honestly don't know if I feel it...I know that I don't feel it at all during our recent encounters. this sex is awful...it's strange because we seem to be getting along much better but the sex is more distant than it was when we weren't as close.

I get the sense you are not trusting him? You are worried about the porn and worried the sex is just a cover for what else he might be doing. He needs to feel that trust coming off you to put himself in the position where he wants to build EC.

I don't think I'll ever trust him again. Especially not with his current behavior...what did he trade having an affair for watching porn? I don't know which I'd rather. don't get me wrong...I've watched cinemax late night but I never did understand the desire to watch full on see all porn what's so exciting about that?

Sounds like you are doing better than I am anyhow.

I did take a peek at your thread. I'm sorry I don't have much to say about your sit. Sounds like you're dealing with an awful lot there. Hang in and know that you are a strong, smart, deserving woman.

LL


Posted By: lostlove Re: getting what I wanted but no liking it - 09/21/06 04:19 AM
Hi MrsNop,

thanks for coming back.

Quote:

Does he physically avoid you when you're together?
Not anymore

If you snuggle up to him on the couch does he stiffen and move away? Are you initiating any of these things or are things so uncomfortable that you are waiting on him to do so?

I've given up on initiating due to years of rejection and humiliation...decided it was better to not try and be sad than to try and be mad.

If you have grabbed him for a hug or kiss, does he reject you?

Depends on when/where and the delivery...I don't feel like I can just plan one on him whenver however I feel the urge.

What would you say are your husband's emotional needs? Conversation? Companionship? Expressions of respect?

Expressions of respect (though I don't feel very respected) H's LL's are (if that's what your getting at Acts of service, words of affirmation, physical touch, gifts, quality time. Mine are in order quality time, words of affirmation, physical touch, acts of service, gifts.

You know what makes you feel close to him, do you know what makes him feel close to you?

After 18 years I can honestly say that I no longer know this man.

MrsNOP -


Posted By: lostlove Re: getting what I wanted but no liking it - 09/21/06 04:29 AM
Hey there oneijoe,

thanks for your input...

Quote:

IMO, this is a guilt issue (possibly even instigated by some passive-aggressive behavior from you)...

If by passive aggressive behavior from me you mean me no longer bothering him about the lack of sex issue or anything else for that matter and just doing my own thing..ya I guess it may be what brought it on but who the he!! knows. I'm pretty direct...I didn't know about the porn until we had trouble with the satelite and in searching through the menus I found purchases...questioned him initially and he denied it...then later confessed...when speaking to the satelite co I had them change the ppv set up so that you have to make a phone call to order...maybe he changed it back but who knows...

It's entirely likely he's imagining other women, many women at once, wild situations, etc. during LM. But..frankly, this isn't unusual in men. Men are stimulated visually.

Aren't we all? well lately I find myself imagining myself with someone else just to get through it.

Where you're getting that "there's something missing" feeling is, I believe you're picking up his subconscious guilt in having those fantasies because he feels you would "disapprove" or would feel jealous (true or not).

Not really jealous...just disgusted. This is a man who never had porn mags, didn't want to go to a strip club for his bach pty...always claimed to not be into that and now suddenly he's pay per viewing porno at 5 bucks a wack and not even saving it? all in the name of boredome?

A suggestion:

Tell him you'd like to watch the adult films WITH him. This will let him know you're OK with it. Even BETTER, bury your inhibitions and attempt to let it stoke YOUR libido and go ahead and play (but not out of obligation - he'll KNOW).

You'll find it won't take long before YOU become his primary supplier of pleasure, even in his fantasy world. As that happens, the porno watching will become more rare along with that "something's missing" feeling after LM.




I've already dealt with a real live OW and seperation...I'm not going to put myself out there to deal with his sudden desire for porn...it's not that I mind him wathcing porn...as I said I've been known to watch cinemax late night on occassion...it's the way sex has been with him lately...mind you I'm no prude...I like to have fun but this just feels cheap. It all just feels too much like being with a stranger without the fun of it being a stranger.
Posted By: lostlove Re: getting what I wanted but no liking it - 09/22/06 03:48 PM
just a quick re-cap of my sit that may help with getting ideas from others. The more you know the more you may have to offfer.

me the w-33
h-soon to be 37
s-7
dd-5
m almost 9 years dated for 9 prior so tgthr for 18 yikes!

our dating years were shaky. a few break ups here and there. H went through a bout with drinking causing one breakup the rest were due to his working too much and not being available to me physically or emotionally.

Eventually we get married...there didn't seem to be much of a honey moon period. we acted like an old married couple instead of young newlyweds.

son is born and things seem good though h still works long hours...sets up office at home to be there earlier but ends up working all night.

we build new home and suddenly h is getting home earlier.

we have dd during preg things seem off. when dd was 3months old I find out h is having EA. h moves out for a week but comes over everynight to help put kids to bed and talk to me so eventually comes home.

a few months pass and h decides he can't be my h anymore. loves me but isn't in love with me...had continued to see ea ow.
h decides he's never coming home..wants D etc.

I get a life (as much as one can with two kids under 3) and start living as if h is never coming home and start being ok with it.

8 months pass and suddenly h is confused (about this time ea ow is asking her h for a D and admits to being in love with my h) and wants to come home.

I let h come home but he's unwilling to go to c. actually at first h only spends time with me on the nights that he was coming to see the kids anyway. things weren't going well and I was fed up so called a lawyer myself...h gets upset and asks that I don't go to the apointment that he'll go to c with me.

we go to c..about 3 sessions that were not productive at all..h just didn't want to address anything..like we were just supposed to go there pay the guy and tell him everythings wonderful.

well 4 years have passed and now h is on ati-anxiety medication, added bourbon nips to his regular drinking, and has taken to purchasing pay per view porn.

When I attmepted to talk with him about his current behaviors his defenses are

medications
"going to doctor soon to get off of them, not a problem"

Alchohol
"is helping him to be more social, talkative etc not a problem"

Porn
"a phase, something different, not a problem"


UGH!

LL
Quote:

Eventually we get married...there didn't seem to be much of a honey moon period. we acted like an old married couple instead of young newlyweds.



Funny you should mention this. When my bf and I first got together four years ago-- and he was getting drunk every night back then-- he also pushed us to start acting like an old married couple right away. There was no "honeymoon" period such as I had had in every previous relationship.

Geez... there were so many red flags that I ignored. I'd say I should have had my head examined, but in fact, I WAS in therapy at the time. I didn't really level with my therapist, because I was afraid she'd try to talk me into dumping him. Sick, sick puppy.
Posted By: oldtimer Re: getting what I wanted but no liking it - 09/26/06 04:41 PM
LL,

I really don't think this porn thing is new (remember the football game?). I really don't think you think it is new either.

The two real points here are:

(1) You have to let go of your belief that your H is sexless. While that is a comforting belief for a spouse in a SSM, it is pretty clearly a false belief in your case. Your H has his own sex life to which you are not privvy, one which includes porn and some sort of sexual activity that has him messing up his shorts in the middle of the day. Clearly some aspect of his private sex life has changed as you are now finding him in your bed.

(2) Sex without real emotional intimacy feels worse than no sex at all. That seems to be what you are having pounded into your head. You aren't crazy -- if he isn't there, he isn't there. Do you feel like he is in some way punishing you by being so emotionally withholding during sex? I hate to say it, but could this be because he is punishing you for not being the sexual outlet he was used to (whatever it was)? Or, is he punishing himself because of guilt?

Anyway, your H is not sexless and there doesn't seem to be any real emotional intimacy between the two of you. Painful, but true, and something I expect you've known in your heart for a long time.

So, what are you going to do to make your life better?

Best,
Oldtimer
Posted By: lostlove Re: getting what I wanted but no liking it - 10/05/06 01:48 AM
Hi Oldtimer,

Thanks for always finding me and adding your greatly appreciated thoughts.

Quote:

I really don't think this porn thing is new (remember the football game?). I really don't think you think it is new either.




The football game issue was on the computer...something that hasn't happend since and the blame for that was eventually taken by his buddie who I expect as much from. I never bothered before to look into the purchases on the tv but now notice there's no stopping him and all it takes is for me to run out to the store or to a PTO meeting. I thought I could deter him by first talking to him about it, second making it more difficult by him having to call and then making it even more difficult by placing a code on pay per views thus leading him to have to actually speak to a person since he doesn't know the code. Well I went to a PTO meeting last night and low and behold "just pumpin" was purchased last night for a $10.99 seems pretty ridiculous to me that someone would spend that money for a one shot deal...wouldn't it be more cost effective to go to the video store and rent something you could at least watch a few times to get your moneys worth. I mean really...I've never even purchased a pay per view movie for the lower prices..always thought it was smarter to either wait for it to get on the cable or satelite channels we pay for or rent it at the video store.

Quote:

You have to let go of your belief that your H is sexless.
I never fully believed he was sexless...I just accepted that our relationship was.
Your H has his own sex life to which you are not privvy, one which includes porn and some sort of sexual activity that has him messing up his shorts in the middle of the day. Clearly some aspect of his private sex life has changed as you are now finding him in your bed.

and he can't seem to understand why this is not comforting for me?





Quote:

Do you feel like he is in some way punishing you by being so emotionally withholding during sex?




I don't think he realizes what he's doing at all.

Quote:

I hate to say it, but could this be because he is punishing you for not being the sexual outlet he was used to (whatever it was)? Or, is he punishing himself because of guilt?





I don't think his intentions are to punish me...I think he's just more messed up than he thinks he is. and apparently he's more messed up than I think he is. He doesn't seem to feel any guilt at all for his porn watching. When I tried to address the issue with him one evening (thrown in with the increase in drinking etc) he claimed it "not a problem" "something different" who knows maybe he was always a cheating whore and now has stopped screwing around so watches porn and suddenly wants me.


Quote:

Anyway, your H is not sexless and there doesn't seem to be any real emotional intimacy between the two of you. Painful, but true, and something I expect you've known in your heart for a long time.




I teeter between knowing what you say to be true and thinking maybe I'm just a typical wife who sees things through muddy glasses.

Quote:

So, what are you going to do to make your life better?




All I can.

LL
LL,

Just wanted to jump in here and make a few comments.

Quote:

something that hasn't happend since and the blame for that was eventually taken by his buddie who I expect as much from




Does your H hang on to friends that are detrimental to your marriage?

Quote:

there's no stopping him and all it takes is for me to run out to the store or to a PTO meeti




Sounds like there is more than mere interest going on here.

Quote:

I thought I could deter him by first talking to him about it, second making it more difficult by him having to call and then making it even more difficult by placing a code on pay per views thus leading him to have to actually speak to a person since he doesn't know the code. Well I went to a PTO meeting last night and low and behold "just pumpin" was purchased last night




If he is determined to view porn, all attempts to stop him are useless, and in fact your attempts to stop him may be feeding his obsession. Your energy is best spent finding out how you can help yourself in this sitch.

Quote:

$10.99 seems pretty ridiculous to me that someone would spend that money for a one shot deal...wouldn't it be more cost effective to go to the video store and rent something you could at least watch a few times to get your moneys worth.




Logistics just don't enter into it. The rituals associated with "illegal" activity are as important as the activity itself.

LL, have you thought about looking into porn addiction?

Posted By: netbrsr Re: getting what I wanted but no liking it - 10/05/06 07:07 PM
Here is an idea,
Go get a porn video and ask him to watch it with you.
Tell him you know he watches it and if that what turns him on then fine, you just want him.
Posted By: oldtimer Re: getting what I wanted but no liking it - 10/08/06 12:33 PM
Lostlove,

Maybe time for a paradigm shift. Quit trying to change/control him and set some hard boundaries for yourself, then see what happens.

Quote:

I thought I could deter him by first talking to him about it, second making it more difficult by him having to call and then making it even more difficult by placing a code on pay per views thus leading him to have to actually speak to a person since he doesn't know the code.




Instead, set your own boundary here. What will you tolerate, what will you not? What will YOU do if he violates your boundary?

Do you require honesty or porn abstinence or porn sharing? What is it that YOU need for yourself here? Figure it out. I can certainly understand you not wanting to have sex with H as he is trampling all over some boundary that you have. But, I don't think that boundary is well-articulated in your own mind, let alone well-communicated to H.

So, standard advice -- quit being a victim, set your own boundary and RESPECT your own boundary. If it is violated, take the necessary steps to protect yourself from victimization. You aren't a child, you are an adult who has this wonderful ability to avoid being a victim in almost all situations.

Quote:

...maybe I'm just a typical wife who sees things through muddy glasses.




Um, NO. Good M's are NOT like your M, but are filled with loving and caring thoughts, actions, and words, with a sincere desire to share in each other's lives, with a wanting to *know* and *see* each other as a wonderful person and partner.

I guess perhaps you are situationally depressed to a degree that it is coloring your thoughts about everything. If so, a trial of antidepressants could be helpful. But, you've never really struck me as depressed. So, I'm inclined to think that when you feel you aren't getting any emotional intimacy it is because you aren't.

Your H's behavior isn't healthy for him. It reeks of an out of control coping mechanism for someone who is in deep pain. You are both very unhappy. You have both tried in ways that aren't working. It is time for change, one way or another.

Best,
Oldtimer
© DivorceBusting.com