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Posted By: lostlove starving for more than just sex in a ssm - 06/14/06 12:32 AM
Same ole same ole round here.

Each month that passes by I find myself more and more thinking what a big mistake I made letting him come home.

It's been almost 4 years since his return and things to me feel worse than they were before he left.

not only am I living in a ssm, I'm also attention starved, affection starved, emotinal connection starved.

it's almost like were just living the roles him the provider who works hard and is almost never around or when is around is too tired from working hard to be of any use to anyone but the couch. Me the house wife taking care of the home and the two young kids.

I'm lonely. This is not a new feeling for me in regard to this relationship but I was fooled into believing he was going to change when he came home...he sure made it sound like he'd realized the imporance of spending quality time with the wife and kids but now we're just supposed to accept it?

before you say it...yes I have a life of my own...too much of a life at times, plenty of clubs, plenty of friends, plenty of activities. I'm not lonly for friends or a life I'm lonely for a male companion.

for those who don't know me I should clarify that though it sounds as if I was the waw that is not the case...he had ea, he moved out, he said he wanted d, he was given a choice for a while and just about the time the choice would no longer be his decided he'd made a mistake and wanted to come home.

now he's dug his feet in and I feel hopeless.

LL
I have tried to talk to h about how I feel. last May (over a year ago now) I let him know that I don't feel like we spend enough time together and that I feel like we're just drifting along.

He owns his own business that is seasonal to a point. During the spring summer and fall he works ridiculous hours (leaving @ 6 am and usually not returning until after 7 even if returning earlier usually only has enough energy to eat dinner and fall asleep on the couch) During the short winter months he still goes to work everyday granted for less hours but still resorts to falling asleep on the couch most of the time.

Last night he didn't get home until after 8pm (that's two nights in a row of after 8) when I comment on it I'm given nothing but attitude. I'm just supposed to accept it. When I let him know it's not acceptable all hell breaks loose and he's then pissed.

because I had this conversation with him while he was on his way home...when he did get home he didn't say one word to me...I sat on the deck for a few minutes he went and sat on the front porch..he then went to bed..I was aggrivated and didn't want to sleep in the same bed with him so slept on sons bottom bunk. When h left this am (son and I were still asleep dd was up with dad..h came into sons room to kiss his sleeping body goodbye for the day and started walking away..I heard dd say what about momma so then he gave me a peck on the cheek (the standard greeting and departure from him anyway)

I don't know what to do anymore. I feel trapped. I don't feel like I have any choice in how my marriage is cared for. The best I can do is care for myself and hope I don't snap in the meantime.

LL
Posted By: OG_Lou Re: starving for more than just sex in a ssm - 06/14/06 02:51 PM
Re LL I don't know what to do anymore. I feel trapped. I don't feel like I have any choice in how my marriage is cared for.
Hi LL. I work for myself/customers too and know the feeling that if "I" don't take care of the customers, they will go somewhere else." At times it seems like everyone else wants something from me and at other times I feel I would be a fool to turn down work that took so long to generate a relationship with a customer.

Some customers are like ice-cream, gone in a few minuets. Other customers are like bread, good for a few days wait but moldy in a week. Other customers are like dried herbs, good for a long time if treated with respect and treated fairly.

Yes, I know, "what about the W and family."
All I can say for me is some responsibility gene is over active, pay for this, buy this part for resale-it's what people want only to worry how to sell it next month because people are interested in the part but not actually willing to shell out money to buy it.

I don't know your H's business practices but could you take him to lunch once a week for some one-on-one or family time.

I think if I were you, I might try going to Arbys or something similar just to get some "US" time.

Just a suggestion. BTDT.

What could my W have done to curb my work activities? a)Not spent so much on the credit cards, b) put money in savings and said something like "look at the savings account balance!" "When there is $XXXX in there you wont have to work so much, won't need to."

I broke the "her spend, me work" cycle when I said I would rather live in my car than to be living with a shopaholic.

I am not saying your situation is like mine, so please don't take offence. I was just sharing some of my situation. Every-one's is different.

Lou
I very rarely if ever anymore post to others because I'm no longer in a place to do so. It's hard to offer support and ideas to others when your doing and trying things that you know should work but just don't. It's hard to keep positive thoughts about the institution of marriage when your feeling like your in an institution.

when does marital preservation become self distructive or self deprivation.

my marriage doesn't provide me with companionship (h is too tired, too busy, too distracted, too disinterested) so I find it with my friends and family

My marriage doesn't provide me with activity so I find it elswhere (creating local clubs etc, planning things with the kids and or friends)

My marriage doesn't provide me with a physical connection so I've got the huggiest kids around.

My marriage doesn't provide me with sex so I entertain myself.

My marraige does provide me with financial security and I appreciate that.

If I complain or try to discuss the things that are lacking in my m with my h I've caused a ruccus and get no where.

If I don't complain I'm still not getting my needs met but at least h is content.

what's worse? saying nothing and just going with the flow knowing that your marriage is failing but keeping the peace by keeping your feelings to yourself knowing or at least feeling like one day you are going to run not walk away. OR knowing that you aren't happy and letting it be known to your partner and finding nothing changes and things only get worse (silence for a while followed by once again pretending everything is just fine).

Hi Lou,

Thanks so much for the reply.

Quote:

I work for myself/customers too and know the feeling that if "I" don't take care of the customers, they will go somewhere else." At times it seems like everyone else wants something from me and at other times I feel I would be a fool to turn down work that took so long to generate a relationship with a customer.




can't the same be said of a marriage? If you spend all your time taking care of the customers and making sure their needs are met so they "don't go somewhere else" to have them met" Why doesn't the thought of "If I don't meet the needs of my spouse they will go somewhere else" ever come to mind?

My h would never expect any of his customers lawns to thrive if they weren't REGULARLY given water, fertelizer, irrated, overseeded, weeds attended to etc. So how/why does/can he possibly think his marriage will thrive simply by paying the bill?

and yes I have used this analogy with him without the accussing tone...didn't penetrate the soil of his mind.

Quote:

I don't know your H's business practices but could you take him to lunch once a week for some one-on-one or family time.





the year that I was pregnant with dd I would call him when on the way back home (h works a distance from home but it was between the doctors and home) and ask if he'd like to meet us for lunch. Never happend. The best we could get was to stop by (if he was even around) and say a quick hello (like not even time for us to get out of the car). Because I discovered later that he was having an ea during that time (which led to seperation, d talk, him saying lots of things that he now denies but I think were/are the real truth...doesn't feel that way about me, married me because it was the next step, ILYBNILWY etc) having lunch occassionaly (probably 3x a week) with ow..when he returned I said I would like to come down and have lunch once a week with him...we could get subs and go to the park..let the kids play and chat for a bit..double bonus he'd actually see the kids awake and we'd get to spend some time. Didn't happen once and we're entering our 4th summer after seperation.

Quote:

I broke the "her spend, me work" cycle when I said I would rather live in my car than to be living with a shopaholic.




I am by no means a shopaholic. Hate shopping, only go to the mall when something is absolutely needed. I buy the needed items for the house (food, clothing kids are still young so we can get away with the -Mart stores, an toiletries etc). Any major purchase (items costing more than $75) are not purchased with out his approval, he however can make purchases without my input.


I don't know what to do...I've gone and talked about that dust that's been piling up under the rug and am now getting the silent treatment. The piles only getting bigger and soon the rug and the floor underneath will be destroyed.

How can I get him to talk openly with me about us? the only time he was able (or did) was when he was not wanting to be with me anymore. Strange how most people with a was claim they are aliens..the things they say and do are "odd" "alien" etc...I feel like I'm living with the alien and the real man showed himself then and only then. It's just what seems to make the most sense to me...of course if I bring that up to him he's got no response or just denies.

UGH!

LL
LL,

What happened to the porn on the computer and the semen in his underwear? Maybe it is time to do something very different and hire a PI to figure out where he is getting his sexual needs met.

What about telling him you are considering a separation?

What about asking him for an open marriage?

It is clearly time to stop doing more of the same. There is no point to your continued unhappiness. Do something else.

Best,
Oldtimer
P.S. It is worth shaking things up to the extreme NOW before you become a WAW tomorrow.
Lostlove... When your H first returned home, how were things? How long did it take for the distance to return? Do you think he could be involved with someone else? You sound so resigned to this situation...sounds like your H does need a huge wake up call. Don't wait, as things will not get better on their own.
Posted By: OG_Lou Re: starving for more than just sex in a ssm - 06/14/06 06:41 PM
So, why do you suppose your H works so much. Make a list of possibilities and ask non-accusatory questions like, "when you work xyz how does it make you feel, what drives you?

I will say I was driven somewhat by what I thought was a lower paying job than many people I knew had or that I thought other people around me were making more by the way they spent money. so lower pay to me meant I needed to work more hours.

I did things with the family, went on vacations, never slept before bedtime, went to church, W did some girl things while I took care of the kids.

My h would never expect any of his customers lawns to thrive if they weren't REGULARLY given water, fertilizer, irrigated, over-seeded, weeds attended to etc. So how/why does/can he possibly think his marriage will thrive simply by paying the bill?

Because some people are their work more than they are of themselves or their family.

At one time I placed most of my self worth in what I did for a living. I had such a difficult (childhood) life, working is what made me a more whole person. At one time (my childhood) I was not a whole person but when I had a job all I had to do was work more to become a more worthwhile person.

That was me and I am not saying your H is/was the same. I can just give my experiences and hope some of what I post might be similar to why your H does or does not do certain things. I can't get into his mind and say why he is not more aware of your needs.

You say he had an "EA" of some sorts. Did he say what he got from the EA? Lots of men get different things from EA/A's. I could only guess what your H got from his.

How can I get him to talk openly with me about us? I will add, with out being defensive or angry.
Try something new for starters. What did not work in the past did not help, did it? doing nothing is going to result in the same-old-things most likely.

Your short term task is to get him to see he is more than his work or what he does to earn money. Is there a fair amount of competition of work pride in his line of work? If so, try to being up like work well done, there is value, not just expenses, in having a solid and happy family.

I used to depend on my W to take care of the home things a little too much. I was in a declining industry and the longer I worked, the more competition the industry faced. People were laid off, took pay cuts, and lost benefits, so I worked harder just to keep even. But that is my story. I hope I helped you with your story.

It's back to work for me.

Lou
Posted By: KarenR Re: starving for more than just sex in a ssm - 06/14/06 06:51 PM
Hi,
I have been reading your posts and am sorry for your situation.
If you have not talked to a DB coach, I highly recommend that you do so: our coaches specialize in working with the spouse who is more motivated to keep the marriage intact by developing an action plan and formulating fresh perspectives to save your marriage Additionally, Divorce Busting Coaches are experts in the techniques Michele addresses in her best-selling book, The Sex-Starved Marriage. Your coach can give you advice and direction to help rekindle your sex life.
There is hope to keep your family together. Whatever you decide, I wish you all the best,
Karen
KarenR,

This is the second time I've seen a sales call made in what seem to me to be remarkably inappropriate circumstances. The first time was with a guy with little money who was actively suicidal.

Lostlove has been around for years and can DB with the best of them and certainly does not need to be told about the availability of phone consults.

I'm not sure if yours is a new position or you have been given new direction by management on how to do your job. But, I can say from this end the two posts of yours that I have seen have been a HUGE TURNOFF in terms of recommending DBing to others. They have been a huge turnoff in terms of the noncommercial supportive atmosphere that used to exist in these forums being quickly undermined by your posts that smack of **contentless telemarketing in print.**

Your posts have a strong copy-paste feel and don't express any genuine familiarity and concern for the sitches of harlydavidson or lostlove.

I am truly disappointed to see the commercialization of these forums. I hope other posters will also let the powers that be know of the bad taste these telemarketing posts leave in one's mouth.

I was really appalled to see this on lostlove's thread when she was reaching out for help again after a period of silence. She deserves better than junk mail.

Oldtimer
Hey oldtimer,

Quote:

What happened to the porn on the computer and the semen in his underwear?.





the porn on the computer was apparently a one time thing and the blame was laid and taken by one of his buddies. What he (h) does on his computer at work is another story but I can tell when he's online during the day (same server and user name so I get bumped off) and it's not very often and most days not at all unless he's tracking weather as work is conditional on the weather.
the whole sticky undies thing...seems to have subsided though I'm no longer looking or doing his laundry very often (why should I). When I confronted him he first, denied, then used a lame excuse of he uses them to wipe up the floor after taking a shower to which I asked well then why are you doing that on the floor to which he then replied well sometimes it just happens. So, again back to the he's not doing anything it's just happening.

Quote:

Maybe it is time to do something very different and hire a PI to figure out where he is getting his sexual needs met.





that's more an issue of money than a lack of interest in doing so. If it weren't so tacky and Jerry Springerish I'd call that show cheaters and have it done for free.

Quote:

What about telling him you are considering a separation?




He's not going anywhere...I get the "if you don't like it YOU leave" bit..and where are me and our two children supposed to go?

Quote:

What about asking him for an open marriage?




I don't really want an open marraige...I either want a happy fullfilling marriage OR a roomate who happens to be the father of my children. Plus having an open marriage would leave him the option of entertaining others...if he's not entertaining me why should I be OK with him entertaining others?

I know I've got to do something. I just don't know what to do.

Thanks for responding to Karen...I was going to just ignore her because I agree completely with you on how insencere and telemarketish her blatantly copy paste respons was. what do you bet she doesn't return to this thread to read either of our remarks.

LL
Hi Inherjourney,

Quote:

When your H first returned home, how were things?




first off H didn't fully return right away. he started coming around to specifically see me (not just the kids) around Halloween didn't give up his apartment until the following May (7 months later). The distance and lack of trusted started before he was even back. We tried a C (he was only willing after I was ready to give up and had an appointment with a lawyer) but it got us nowhere unless I acted like everything was fine.


Quote:

Do you think he could be involved with someone else?




Sure but I wont know until I know...ya know?

Quote:

sounds like your H does need a huge wake up call. Don't wait, as things will not get better on their own.




See, I really believed he had that wake up after the seperation...he sure knew how to sell himself to me. What a fool I feel like now. I bought a lemon and have let the warranty run out.

LL
Hey Lou,

Thanks again for replying,


Quote:

So, why do you suppose your H works so much. Make a list of possibilities and ask non-accusatory questions like, "when you work xyz how does it make you feel, what drives you?





He works because it's who he is. He enjoys writing himself his paycheck at the end of the week...it makes him feel good to know he's providing for his family. He enjoys being voted "the best of" in the town he runs his business out of. He started his company from nothing and it now provides for his family and offers employement to 11 others.

Quote:

You say he had an "EA" of some sorts. Did he say what he got from the EA? Lots of men get different things from EA/A's. I could only guess what your H got from his.





Not from him...he had a hard time even admitting it was an affair...wouldn't even call it an inappropriate relationship...now he just calls it BS. I know he used words like "they had a connection" and that he could "be himself with her" etc. It's probably typical but a lot of the time I find myself feeling like maybe they were meant to be together and not us.

again UGH

LL
LL,

Sure, I guy who completely hides his sexuality from his W is going to jack off in the bathroom and use his undies rather than TP to clean up... Whatever...

What are the laws about who has to move out, etc..., if you were to pursue a legal separation?

Is there a women's legal support center around you? It might simply help to know what you are entitled to legally when he gives you the "fine, then you leave," line.

For instance, if you could say, "no, not until we have an order of support in place for the separation or alimony and child support in place for the divorce. Until then, one of else will be sleeping elsewhere in the house and I will take the necessary steps to ensure we begin a legal separation. I am confident that the courts will award me alimony and child support if this leads to divorce, and it is also likely that I can get support during the separation. If that amount is sufficient, then I will leave, though I expect you will find that it benefits your financial situation to be the one to take up residence elsewhere rather than moving your W and children."

I'm just thinking that it will help for you to feel like you have viable options here. You need to find a position of power in which you feel you are choosing your own life. Child support is pretty automatic, and NH looks like a good state for alimony (http://www.divorcenet.com/states/new_hampshire/nhfaq_01).

Simply being armed with this information may make H stand up and take notice. If it doesn't, I'm not sure anything would in any case. He may very well simply be a WAH past the point of no return who is staying in the M for financial reasons.

I guess what I'm suggesting is that you pretty much drop the bomb on him without yet being a WAW -- drop the bomb while still being open to reconcilliation *if* he steps up to the plate.

Otherwise, I'd say it pretty close to time to cut your losses. Staying in a bad M isn't good for anyone, including your kids. Life can be soooo much better and you deserve that -- hopefully inside your existing M, but if not, so be it, move on.

(((((((LL)))))))) I hate to see things still going on like this for you. You are such a warm, bright, beautiful woman and you seem so beaten down and lost now.

Try to really figure out your options so you have some autonomy and feel empowered. You are not hostage to your bad M. You will find a way to live better.

Best,
Oldtimer

P.S. hopefully *moderator* Sage will see you over here and read our reactions to the sales spamming posts...
Hi LL,

Sorry to find you are still here and still completely stuck in the shell of an M. I couldn't really find anything more to say than what Oldtimer has said to you and she has put it very well.

You sound "spent" - would that be accurate?

OG-Lou said:
"At times it seems like everyone else wants something from me"
This is exactly the kind of thing my H has said to me, why can't they realise that we would pay them back 10-fold if only they would send a little love and affection our way. It is an investment and a very good one at that.

take care LL, keep posting.

Fran
Hey Oldtimer,

You know, my mother has advised me to do exactly what you say. After all there's no harm in knowing what my options are. Trouble is even taking steps to find out such information seems so final to me and I'm still not sure I'm ready to take that step. I know that when h and I have had our arguments...or to be more specific when I've let him know how I really feel about the state of our marriage he's not received it well...the last resort technique may work for some but I'm not going to put my money on it...the only way it will work in this case is if I don't back down and I'm not at that point yet. teetering but not there.

LL
Hi Fran,

Yes, I'm still plundering away in what feels like more of an arraingement than a marriage.

The silence from our tiff the other night has ended...took the typial course...silence..blantant avoidance ended by neccessity (a home project needing discussion) with no resolution or closure just more dust under the rug.

I wonder...is it possible for people who's love languages fall in these orders to have a fullfilling relationship?

quality time, physical touch , words of affirmation, acts of service, gifts

words of affirmation, acts of service gifts, physical affection, quality time

to the best of my assesment capabilities the two above orders are that of my h and myself (not hard to figure out which on is me huh?)

I had the love language conversation with h a few years back and though he seemed to understand the concept he was still stuck on the "that's just the way I am" I couldn't get him to understand that by stepping out of his mold as I try to step out of mine we'd both find the rewards benificial. But then in regard to the ssm issue I've gotten him once or twice to admit that there's a calm and closeness after a physical interaction and yet he doesn't bother to keep that going either (last countdown lasted over six month till I finally gave him little choice now we're starting a new countdown at a month and a half since our last interaction)

we are going to a wedding this weekend...I used to enjoy weddings for the party aspect...never thought much about the future of the couple getting married until after I was married myself and well thought about it more after our seperation (went to a wedding during seperation that h was the best man at...I had fun the only time I got upset was when h gave his toast and boasted about how bil and his new wife have something real blech...the rest of the night I had so much fun members of his family who knew of our sit at the time asked how I could be so happy was I on meds or something...nope...I just knew how to enjoy life at the time...too bad I've let h drag me back into this funk of a so-called life)

oh well...singing off before I start an unnecessary rant.

LL
Lostlove... When you get to that place where you are willing to risk the relationship you will know it. You are wise to hold off until you are at that point because then it's just a lot of empty threats. Are there small ways that you can make the situation better for yourself?
Hi Inherjourney,

BTW I like your name as we are all on a journey aren't we.

Quote:

Are there small ways that you can make the situation better for yourself?




I keep myself busy with lots of mentaly stimulating activities as well as physical. I plan projects for myself..things to do around the house..make changes (minimal cost a bucket of paint or just rearrainging furniture) it helps but it's not enough.

I don't know when the time will come when I'll be ready..sadly I think it's not that I'm not ready I think it's that I'm not ready to put my kids through it.

...........................................................

Just got back from a wedding with h's side of the family. a fun time..there are lots of cousins on his side that we don't see often but I like and have good conversation with. Usualy lots of dancing but the music was lacking..did have fil ask me to dance though (h doesn't dance even if the music is good) I've noticed recently that h is drinking more than usual. I can't tell what he's doing during the week because well he most often falls asleep but it's possible he's having a few beers a night and maybe a swig or two of jack daniels or jim bean..not good for a guy who works hard outside all day and most definetly isn't drinking enough water during the day. He didn't drink a lot before our seperation so I'd just like to take a min to point out some things I've noticed...

h is seeming to be drinking more than prior to seperation

h is on anti anxiety meds for the past year (not a problem prior to seperation though he did start having what I would consider minor attacks toward the end of seperation)

h quit smoking ciggarettes but smokes cigars now instead

these things may mean nothing but to me they say he's not happy.

oh and oldtimer if you're still reading...I took a peek at his recent pile of laundry (I stopped doing his laundry a few months ago when he pulled only his stuff out of the hamper to wash repetedly) and low and behold there are remnants of lil soldiers there.

To clarify on the lil soldiers...yes, I know it's normal for men to have occassional wet dreams etc esp when they aren't getting any, but that's not what this looks like...this looks like he got some...didn't clean it all of and then put his boy away with some drippings still on. Make sense? what am I to think?

it's 1:20 am the kids are staying over my moms, h stumbled his drunken self up to the bedroom and is probably by now sprawled all over our bed passed out...I have no desire what-so-ever to go up there...I'd almost rather stay awake all night getting things ready for fathers day than to find a spot on the bed to sleep.

UGH!

LL
Hey LL,

Sorry, haven't been on much... And sorrier to hear about the little soldiers. Ugh. H does sound like he is pretty unhappy. What are the chances of MC? I've forgotten if he is just totally opposed.

Anyway, I still think it would be a good idea for you to understand your legal options, even if you don't want to take the step of confronting H with them. I really think it is important to feel some freedom in your R, to not feel totally trapped. I don't see how you can ever have a chance of feeling better about the R otherwise.

((((((((((LL))))))))))

Oldtimer
HMMM?

this seems to always happen but how to make it work for me. It seems that when I reach a point of teetering on the edge of giving up h seems to come around. No, still no physical intimacy but it does seem like he starts to put a bit more effort into getting home a bit earlier, talking to me a bit more and heck I even catch him looking at me.

Does this make up for everything or the lack of anything? No, but it does make me feel better about the potential for a fullfilling r with h. Now if I could only figure out a way to keep him in that mode without having to constantly be standoffish with him because that's not the way I want to be.

LL
Sometimes it really seems like our partners can read our minds doesn't it. As soon as you couldn't give a flying f&&k anymore H notices and starts to act more interested in you. You can't change him, you don't want to change yourself - in other words you don't want to change yourself into a queen biatch who couldn't care less.

I wish Cobra would post on your thread he can usually figure these things out. But mho would be that your H has a fear of intimacy. And it is this fear which keeps him distant from you and makes him interested when you seem less "available". You don't fear intimacy - you want it. So what to do? Really I wish I knew.

I'm like you LL I have my love languages in pretty much the same order as you do and my H has his in pretty much the same order as your H. There is nothing he craves more than peace and quiet, solitude. There is nothing I crave more than cosy fireside chats - followed by raunchy sex I have learnt to leave him be otherwise he gets crabby with me. Then when he has had his fill of solitude (after about 2 weeks to a month) he will start to cosy up to me, have a little chat (usually about his stuff ) and start making his moves on me. Whoopee! Then we have another few weeks of drought. Sorry but this just isn't enough. I've tried everything I can think of but at the end of the day I guess I just have to accept that that's him. When I leave it this way for a while things go more smoothly between us if I try to get more he just gets grouchy, irritable and a PITA to live with. It's a part-time M as far as I'm concerned.

take care

Fran
Hi LL,

Glad (I guess) that H is being a bit better... How can your respond to this in a different way than you have in the past?

It seems like something new is called for so that you can try to break the cycle that has been repeated so often.

Don't warm up too quickly -- give him space to want to come to you and to come to you. Let him figure out that he wants that himself.

Best,
Oldtimer
Posted By: Cobra Re: starving for more than just sex in a ssm - 06/28/06 09:20 PM
LL,

I saw Fran’s request that I respond to your post, but frankly I didn’t know what to say. Your’s is a tough situation because I see this as an MLC issue. Your husband left once, I assume because of “MLC” and then you “let” him come back, right? He never “got over” his MLC and is still seeing someone else.

The problem with MLC is that the spouse has already pulled the trigger on the bomb, and having once done so and come back, will be more comfortable doing so again (or at least that is your worry). If he realized the leaving was the wrong thing, that he almost lost you and that thought scares him to death, then I don’t think he would still be seeing someone else. So I will assume he will not fall to pieces at the thought of leaving again. That puts you in a very hard spot since you have little left under your control.

But I think that is really the driving issue behind MLCers. They are angry and frustrated from years of avoiding their issues and have learned to project blame onto others. In short, they seriously need validation from others to avoid confronting their faults. At some point they reach a boiling point when the spouse gets fed up with taking all the blame and refuses to give back that validation they need. So the MLCer resorts to drastic action in order to be heard and get things back under control. Because they cannot or will not confront their own issues, they create a cycle of blaming their problems on their spouse, who in turn becomes defensive (recognizing the projection going on), and the MLCer only gets angrier because s/he is not being acknowledged.

This is why the approach explained in that post by Lou titled “Hope for Couples in Crisis” on Happy Giant’s thread seems to be what is needed. It is also in line with what CeMar is recommending – to use Dr. Laura’s approach. Both of these basically involve re-enmeshment, at least as I see it. This gives comfort to the MLCer. I think it would be difficult for a spouse to do since it essentially means the spouse must once again accept blame for the problems of the MLCer and also tell the MLCer how wonderful s/he is. If the spouse has become resentful too (which is likely since both partners should be equally differentiated), s/he may not be able to do this.

In my opinion the trick as to find a way to get the MLCer into therapy after s/he has returned, and before the spouse gets so fed up s/he leaves. All of this is just my opinion and how I see the MLC dynamic.
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