Last thread here:
Create the life...Summary so far: H asked for a D and after I kicked him out I discovered he was having an affair with an ex-GF. For a while, I wanted to reconcile but after he made no effort to end his AF, I accepted the D but made him the one to file. He's off living his new life with his new partner in another state. I am still acting as step-mom to the boys I helped raise. I have moved into an apartment and I'm in the process of getting settled now that I am able to begin this new life I've been given.
Friends and Family: My SSs are staying somewhat in touch and are off living their young lives. My mom is very supportive, although she is not happy in her marriage so sometimes talking to her can be emotionally exhausting, but I learned to set some boundaries and that is helping. I have other family that feel that I should be happy that I am not in a relationship with this person they now hate, and they don't understand why I am still unhappy, struggling, stressed etc. If you look at the list of all the things not to say to someone going through trauma, they pretty much have said all those things to me. I try to not judge them too much, as they are helping me in other ways (financially) but it is still very hard to not be able to turn to your family members with the truth of the feelings you are struggling with. Most friends have been supportive and that has helped.
My emotional state: I'm starting to feel again and I've been doing IC. After years of stress and trauma, I've been suffering from emotional numbness and/or detachment. In many ways I have been doing better (my health has improved and I am functioning) but the emotional issues are dragging on. My IC feels that dating again will help to deal with these issues. So I'm considering looking at that in the coming months. I have accepted the D, I've come to terms with what I've learned about my XH and how he treated me, but I still do not really feel "alive" or excited about life yet. So this journey for me is ongoing.
So this is where I begin this thread...
El
Now that my D is finalized, there is a part of me that wants to reach out to my XH's OW's husband. I am curious about what he went through. They were M a very long time. And I am sure he knew about my XH as OW had a relationship with him before she met her H. Is this a terrible idea?
Hello El
I’ve a couple of thoughts from reading your update/summary.
I’d not reach out to XH’s OW’s H (or is he XH yet?). I do not see much benefit coming from ripping open that scar, for you or him.
I'm starting to feel again and I've been doing IC.
Yes, our emotions and feelings do return.
After years of stress and trauma, I've been suffering from emotional numbness and/or detachment.
In no way to belittle anything. However…
After years of stress and trauma, I've been suffering from experiencing emotional numbness and/or detachment.
Detachment and indifference, and the numbness it brings, are not an affliction. It is a perfectly normal part of grief. It is temporary, as you know, as your feelings are returning.
…the emotional issues are dragging on. My IC feels that dating again will help to deal with these issues.
My dear friend. I’d not do that. Dating will detract from your healing, not help it.
One should, needs to, get their emotions, mind, head and heart, and values and convictions in order before entangling someone else into the mix. I do not agree with the advice of using a date to help you through your journey. Deal with your issues, then date if you want too.
I have accepted the D, I've come to terms with what I've learned about my XH and how he treated me, but I still do not really feel "alive" or excited about life yet. So this journey for me is ongoing.
Have faith. It is coming. Act as if. Do. Go on a trip or to an amusement park or whatever.
I do feel alive - now. Excited about my life and future - now. Let’s see, I’m coming up on five years post BD, and the first three or so years were rather dim. The beginning was damn dark, truth be told. The next chunk was all that numbness and kind of not feeling “alive”.
The transition from depression to acceptance is not a well defined point in time, it is rather nebulous. Just one day you realize you accept this. Or most of it. It is not a sudden back to normal feelings by the way either.
Slowly feelings return. And other feelings do not. And still other feelings return and are unwanted. It’s a journey. Worry and focus less on your feelings, and more focus and consider your values and life’s headings.
Feelings are fleeting, and they will eventually align with your beliefs. And those beliefs were strengthened and such with intellect and goals and headings. Peace and contentment comes when one’s heart, mind, and soul are all in step. We then can act upon that with ease - the living a great life, and feeling alive and excited about it.
It’s a journey. Everyone’s path is of different duration. Thing is, it’s not about the destination, it’s about the journey.
I get it. It seems so long right now. I look back, and my divorce journey looks like a blip. Just a wee dip in the road. Yet at the time, it was such a chasm. From me to you, take your time and do it well. The dividends are very much worth it.
D
Elbereth,
In many ways I have been doing better (my health has improved and I am functioning) but the emotional issues are dragging on. My IC feels that dating again will help to deal with these issues. So I'm considering looking at that in the coming months.
I'm with DnJ on this one. If you're ready to date, go for it, but don't do it as a means to process through your emotional issues. That's not a good idea.
Now that my D is finalized, there is a part of me that wants to reach out to my XH's OW's husband. I am curious about what he went through. They were M a very long time. And I am sure he knew about my XH as OW had a relationship with him before she met her H. Is this a terrible idea?
I'd be careful with this one. He's likely hurting as well. You two might open up old wounds or get attached to each other as a way to heal which wouldn't serve either of you.
My IC feels that dating again will help to deal with these issues. So I'm considering looking at that in the coming months.
Hey E....
I'm not sure that I agree with this just yet...
You admittedly are having some troubles with coming through this,. Feelings of being Jaded and still seems to be a lot of anger built up inside.
And maybe going on a few dates would be good, yet somehow I don't feel as if that is the person that you want to put out there.
???
To me, I think you are heading in the right direction. Just finding out who YOU are through all of this....
Yes, you could possibly have some validating interactions, albeit external validation, and that only lasts for so long. It comes down to how you
validate yourself that really matters...
Imagine that you are once again that 6 year old girl, imagining her prince rescuing her from the tower..
Except when he finds you, you aren't whole and ready for that ???
Who is the person that you want to show the world everyday ??
THAT is the person that you should be searching for IMHO....
Find her.....
Now that my D is finalized, there is a part of me that wants to reach out to my XH's OW's husband. I am curious about what he went through. They were M a very long time. And I am sure he knew about my XH as OW had a relationship with him before she met her H. Is this a terrible idea?
I wonder what YOU would like to see if that happens ?
What answers would help you ?
Would it be a 'closure' thing ???
Cause it could also be a couple people that get stuck commiserating, and really never move forward, which isn't a healthy place to live in....
Hello everyone,
As for dating again...
One should, needs to, get their emotions, mind, head and heart, and values and convictions in order before entangling someone else into the mix. I do not agree with the advice of using a date to help you through your journey. Deal with your issues, then date if you want too.
I'm with DnJ on this one. If you're ready to date, go for it, but don't do it as a means to process through your emotional issues. That's not a good idea.
I'm not sure that I agree with this just yet... You admittedly are having some troubles with coming through this,. Feelings of being Jaded and still seems to be a lot of anger built up inside. And maybe going on a few dates would be good, yet somehow I don't feel as if that is the person that you want to put out there. ???
To me, I think you are heading in the right direction. Just finding out who YOU are through all of this.... Yes, you could possibly have some validating interactions, albeit external validation, and that only lasts for so long. It comes down to how you validate yourself that really matters... Imagine that you are once again that 6 year old girl, imagining her prince rescuing her from the tower..
Except when he finds you, you aren't whole and ready for that ??? Who is the person that you want to show the world everyday ?? THAT is the person that you should be searching for IMHO.... Find her.....
I hear all of you. And I think I need to provide a little more context that my IC discussed with me to really hash this out. I've spent a lot of time coming to terms with what has happened to me. I've read a lot of books, listened to podcasts, and had several months of IC. I do feel that I know who I am, and what I need to work on for myself, and I have an understanding of my role in the collapse of my marriage. I do have a pretty solid view of my mind, head, values and convictions. What I am still struggling with is feeling numb and shut down from exhaustion. My MR was collapsing for 2-3 years before BD, so IC feels that it's the long timeline of stressors that has me numb more than my mindset. I fear trusting a partner again. I fear getting involved with another narcissist again. I am introverted and I like being alone, but I also need others in my life to help me grow, heal and enjoy my life. I'm in the place where I no longer want my H back. I know I want and deserve better. Of course, I'm still angry about it...but not in the sense that I'm angry all of the time. I don't think anyone really gets passed the unfairness of it all. But I'm not stuck on the anger, I'm looking forward. And I am personally not in a rush to lock myself into a new relationship. I don't feel like I have to have someone in my life. But I know I want to eventually. And you can't work relationship fears if you are not dating...at least that is what my IC has discussed with me. For example, I can't work on romantic trust without someone there to romantically trust...
So I don't see it as rushing into another relationship or using people to heal my issues. My goal is to eventually be in a long-term relationship again. So, the goal is still seeking a long-term relationship, it's just I'll need help with the "process" of finding that. I am hoping to go about it with a dating coach as well as coaching from my counselor and I would take things very slow. And, I wouldn't even start this process for another month or so, as I'm still dealing with my move and a training course. I'm fine where I am at the moment and will continue to explore the idea...and I'm fine with only doing it when I am ready.
As for reaching out to the OWs XH...
I’d not reach out to XH’s OW’s H (or is he XH yet?). I do not see much benefit coming from ripping open that scar, for you or him.
I'd be careful with this one. He's likely hurting as well. You two might open up old wounds or get attached to each other as a way to heal which wouldn't serve either of you.
I wonder what YOU would like to see if that happens? What answers would help you? Would it be a 'closure' thing??? Cause it could also be a couple people that get stuck commiserating, and really never move forward, which isn't a healthy place to live in....
I avoided doing this prior to the D for several reasons... I did not want to cause any drama that would make my D more complicated, I did not want to interfere with XH and AP's relationship (I didn't want any collapse to be blamed on me), and I didn't feel I was in a place to deal with anything I might find out.
However, now that I am in a better place, I am still curious about if he knew about the AF, about the history they had, etc. Lots of curiosity questions mostly. I'm analytical. I've found that I need to research and have some understanding of what things occurred. Probably the same reason why I have spent all this time researching MLC and infidelity.
But I think you all are right...at this stage, in my healing, it probably would not do me any good and it would just throw me back into commiserating and dwelling. I'm not sure what I'd do if he reached out to me first. But so far, he never had. The truth is, I'll never get the truth...right? lol
Anyway, I hope that helps provide some more context. Thanks for taking the time to let me know your thoughts. I appreciate them so much!
El
Hi El,
And you can't work relationship fears if you are not dating...at least that is what my IC has discussed with me. For example, I can't work on romantic trust without someone there to romantically trust...
Is that really the only way? I'm not sure I entirely agree. What I've come to understand is that it isn't about me trusting someone else as much as it's about me trusting myself - trusting myself to be a good judge of character, trusting that I can take care of myself and my emotional health.
Once you are solid within yourself, my belief is that the rest will just flow naturally.
as far as reaching out to AP's exh ... I found out about my exh's AP two years ago. I didn't do the typical things like search for her address, or social media or anything like that. At one point though, many many months after finding out I did a search and found that her husband filed 13 months after my BD. I wondered about their relationship. Were they separated when she took up with my husband? Were they still living together? When did he find out about the affair? What prompted him to finally file? Did he know how they met or where?
I allowed these questions to flow across the tv screen in my mind, without judgment or any effort to stop them. Eventually the questions changed: Would it change my present life to know how they met? How he found out about their affair? Would it change my relationship with my exh or have changed the outcome of my marriage to have any of these questions answered? Would my questions make him re-live something painful or stir up possible hostilities? Whatever happened between the three of them, I feel like I'm better off staying out of this, for my own peace of mind and the peace of mind of my son. That's their karma. Not mine. And I certainly don't want to add to another's pain.
My conclusion was that the outcome is what it is, and most likely her husband doesn't have the missing puzzle pieces either. The only two people who could satisfactorily answer my questions are proven liars with something to hide. Some things I'm better off not fretting about. It just becomes a distraction and avoidance of my daily life.
Hope this helps.
Take this with a grain of salt. Because we all know my dating track record stinks and it is the consensus here I make poor dating decisions. However….
We all come out of this with scars and issues. It’s how we recognize them, what we learn from them etc. no one has these issues perfectly worked through . And if people didn’t date until they were, we would probably never date. Unless those issues have the capability of hurting a dating partner , then , well, I agree with your IC. She probably sees more of fears , rather than issues you need to work through on the dating front . The 2 can be confused often. And the best thing to do for our fears is work through them .
We are middle aged folk here who have been through the ringer. I would majority of us have done some pretty good self work. None of us will be perfect and completely ready to date. As long as we don’t see ourselves in a place where we will likely hurt someone else or ourselves, it’s a fine time to try it again .
That’s my 2 cents, not the popular opinion here. But another viewpoint to consider
Take this with a grain of salt. Because we all know my dating track record stinks and it is the consensus here I make poor dating decisions. However….
We all come out of this with scars and issues. It’s how we recognize them, what we learn from them etc. no one has these issues perfectly worked through . And if people didn’t date until they were, we would probably never date. Unless those issues have the capability of hurting a dating partner , then , well, I agree with your IC. She probably sees more of fears , rather than issues you need to work through on the dating front . The 2 can be confused often. And the best thing to do for our fears is work through them .
We are middle aged folk here who have been through the ringer. I would majority of us have done some pretty good self work. None of us will be perfect and completely ready to date. As long as we don’t see ourselves in a place where we will likely hurt someone else or ourselves, it’s a fine time to try it again .
That’s my 2 cents, not the popular opinion here. But another viewpoint to consider
Sometimes we can only work on relationship issues in a relationship because we don't know they exist until those circumstances trigger something. This is true.
Launching one more person into the dating pool who hasn't yet healed enough is why many of the posters here have something to complain about in online dating/meetups/etc.
. I've spent a lot of time coming to terms with what has happened to me. I've read a lot of books, listened to podcasts, and had several months of IC. I do feel that I know who I am, and what I need to work on for myself, and I have an understanding of my role in the collapse of my marriage. I do have a pretty solid view of my mind, head, values and convictions. What I am still struggling with is feeling numb and shut down from exhaustion. My MR was collapsing for 2-3 years before BD, so IC feels that it's the long timeline of stressors that has me numb more than my mindset. I fear trusting a partner again. I fear getting involved with another narcissist again.
Ultimately, that decision is yours...
You seemed to vacillate between being ready and not being ready....
Which direction would you like lead to ???
All of that up there.. ^^^^
Knowing it and living it are entirely different.....and FEEL entirely different in the real world....
Hell, I could perform a knee replacement because I watched a video of it...
However, IN THE MOMENT, I'm certain it would be totally different...
When what I thought I knew, is up against what I don't actually know....
Thinking that you know, is the
fear of being in those situations again....
Knowing that you know, is what keeps you from them....
So maybe if you decide to date, think about the specific reasons that you are, and what your goals are for the date...
Are you simply trying to validate yourself externally ?
Are you seeking a long term companion ?
A one night companion ?
Whatever choice you make....just be sure to "own" it...
The question is ….
What is healed “enough”? How is that defined?
I can only speak for myself, so this is my own definition, a standard I hold for myself: being whole as an individual. not looking for a relationship to fill a void, because there's no void to fill.
Put another way:
I know that I trust myself.
I know that trusting myself means that regardless of external circumstances, I can take care of myself, my inner self, in ways that I couldn't before BD.
Betrayal is a biotch, but the biggest betrayal is when we betray ourselves - our values, our instincts, our inner voice. I don't claim to have all the answers or even some. I just know that I trust myself more than I ever have, and I won't betray myself, my values, my inner guide.
I don't need any external validation. Nice to have, not necessary to my existence.
I don't need a romantic relationship to fill anything - I'm complete as I am.
To me, that means if someone compelling comes along, I'd probably be open to exploring possibilities with that person. Why the probably qualifier? Because I've so bloody much on my plate for the next two months I don't really see any way to ease open time to do something justice; keeps me focused on my path as a solo artist.
^^^ definitely a fair assessment of what works for you or doesn’t for that matter
I agree, trying to fill one void with something unrelated never works.
That is not something healthy to throw back there in a dating market .
The void of emotional romantic intimacy should only be filled by the same. I’m pretty whole in most areas of my life. Do I feel a void in my romantic life? Absolutely! Is it because I need external validation from others or to make me feel whole overall I’m other areas I don’t ? Absolutely not.
For me, and others I know, emotional and romantic intimacy and partnership is a void that can’t be filled by a new hobby. For me, this is my healthy stage to get out there. Am I perfect? No. Do I have it all figured out in the dating world? No way. But am I filling the dating pool with someone who hasn’t “healed enough “? I don’t think so.
And I I agree, it’s totally different for everyone.
And E is a very intelligent woman who knows where she falls on that spectrum. Because it definitely isn’t the same for everyone
The question is ….
What is healed “enough”? How is that defined?
Rhetorical ?
Or would like my answer ?
No, not rhetorical . I would love to know what everyone’s view of healed enough to pursue a relationship again. Or even to just date
First off....this is MY answer, and everyone is different....
I think that if one has to ask if they are ready, typically, they aren't....
After my Divorce, I spent a lot of time in my own head, dealing with my issues, my responsibility to the part I played in my failed marriage. Gave it plenty of headspace, and dealt with things accordingly.
What I also did, was to make a template, or checklist, of everything that I would like in my next relationship.
I got to a point where I was much like E here, I knew the right words, I was pretty sure that I was where I wanted to be, yet I wasn't sure because I was never really up against those things.
I got to a point where I started to become sure, and trusting myself again, that I wouldn't fall back into old patterns and behaviors.
The last hurdle was forgiving myself, that I wouldn't be that person again....
And I know that ^^^ is deep, probably deeper than it needs to be for this...
Eventually, I stopped asking the questions about it. Was I ready, wasn't I...
It didn't matter as long as I was true to myself.
What also happened, was that I just wanted to live my life, didn't matter what else happened. I wasn't looking for anyone, wasn't hoping for anyone, I just wanted to have fun, and enjoy living again.
Being healthy and whole was more important.
I gave up all of that control up to the Universe, and whatever happened, would happen.
And when I met K, I wasn't looking at all....
It just kinda happened, because I was ready to accept fully what I wanted and would need to be in a relationship again.
It actually went against what I wanted, which was to just be me again...
If someone would have asked, I would have possibly said...'I don't know'.
Yet it wouldn't have been a 'yes' or a 'no'. I really hadn't thought about it much for a long time.
I get that what I did, isn't for everyone....that's the path that I took ....
And that is what drives my advice...
If you have to ask, chances are, you aren't....
So I guess to summarize, since I seem to be rambling a bit....
Trust, Forgiveness, making sure I don't bring any old baggage with me...??
Healing fully so that one is ready for whatever comes their way ??
Knowing fully who I was, so that I could recognize Red Flags early on ? (not that I had to worry about those in hindsight). Yet I would have if they were to have existed.
I guess the best thing I did, was to make that template for what I would and wouldn't accept in a relationship...
I would hold that template up against anyone that would, or could possibly enter my life.
That ^ was actually harder than I thought it would be, thanks though...
I need a nap....
Bottom line....?
I stand by what I posted earlier... ^^^^
No, not rhetorical . I would love to know what everyone’s view of healed enough to pursue a relationship again. Or even to just date
This is certainly a good part of the answer
I agree, trying to fill one void with something unrelated never works.
Additionally it's also where you are no longer fighting "the last war". Where your former partner, the good, the bad, the whatever has no bearing on the person you might match up with. Certainly learning lessons like "hoarders can be difficult to live with" is important of course.
In my admittedly small experience with dating I have found that what some people are looking for is a more acceptable version of the person they used to have in their lives. In both cases the person I was dating tried to change my behaviour and lifestyle to match what they were used to. I'll keep buttoning up my shirt and not wearing gold chains, and it will be me that writes cards and picks out presents for my own children - thank you very much
And at least from my point of view there's more out to the question than just "healed enough". There's also the willingness to open yourself up to another, to take risks and to have the "space" in your life that could be occupied by another. For me, I'm quite sure that I'm "healed enough" - but those last 3 questions hold me back still.
An interesting discussion on healed and whole.
I’ll throw my two cents into the pot, based upon my journey and viewpoints of self.
Trusting in your self and your beliefs and convictions play a big part. A really big part. And trust is earned, just like it is earned from someone else. It is earned from respect. Self respect and self trust, leads to faith of self.
For me the first stage towards healed and whole, was knowing. The understanding of those values and beliefs I am strengthening and I aspire to. Oddly, the second step was feeling it. Emotionally connecting to trusting and such. A mind and heart union as it were. Lastly, is believing it. I liken it to the soul. This is one’s faith in self. Beyond knowing. Beyond feeling. And encompassing both.
Everyone sees the world through their own lens. A person who has difficultly extending trust to others, has difficult trusting themselves. They may know the trust they are after, yet at this time not feel or have faith within themselves. Respect, compassion, forgiveness, loyalty, etc. all similarly extended, or not.
The principles of self shine outward. One is open to others. Has faith in their fellow man. And can risk gain. A healed person will be ok when/if they get hurt. They do not fear being destroyed again. There is a strength in such knowledge and faith.
There are no voids that need to be filled. And yes, I mean “need”. Nature abhors a vacuum or void. After bomb drop, half my life was ripped away. The remaining chunk was smashed and destroyed. I was like most who find themselves here upon these shores, I was hurt, lost, standing within the wreckage, and had such a void within me. A void which demanded attention.
Detachment, letting go, indifference, withdrawal, compassion, forgiving, etc, all steps along a path of rebuilding. Steps which addressed and assuaged my void. Steps of grief and finding acceptance and forgiveness and such. One is not whole if one has a void within.
Life provides plenty of feedback for those who wish to, or are willing to hear and heed. My analytical mindset and technical predisposition melded well with the most fortunate advice/suggestions I received here. Counterintuitive positive actions lead to positive tangible feedback. Which lead to understanding and further positive steps and actions bringing about more feedback.
At times, life’s feedback was negative. I hazard to say negative, for it’s heeding that feedback that lead to learning and growing. In that sense, negative is really quite positive in effect, when one listens and heeds.
In the end, becoming healed and whole, shifts one’s perspective. And one’s situation and reality is defined by one’s perspective.
D
I think it’s deceptively simple, this question of when yo date.
- you should be sure that you’ll never take your ex back even if they came crawling - because it’s terribly unfair to a new partner to dump them for your ex.
- you need to be healed enough that you can make healthy choices in terms of whom you date. It’s too easy to grab the first thing to fill that void, or to repeat old patterns that led to you picking your ex in the first place.
In my case, I’d been DBing my marriage for years, had one successful reconciliation after his affair, and when he finally left, I was truly done. I had peace in my heart that I had done everything possible to save my marriage, and that I would never take him back under any circumstances. So I started dating a few months after my ex left, and my first relationship was so healing. It actually showed me so many things that had been missing with my ex.
The new guy was a father who put his adult children first (my narcissist ex did not). The sex was even better than with my exH (and we’d had a pretty great sex life). He didn’t care about my imperfections or normal body functions the way my ex did. (I still remember this boyfriend offering me a bowl of ice cream, which I tried to decline on the basis that I’m a little lactose intolerant and it would make me fart. His response was to encourage me to enjoy it and tell me he didn’t care if I farted ALL NIGHT. I still love him for that! My ex was mortified if I ever passed the tiniest bit of gas in his presence! )
And even though the new relationship was no fairy tale romance - he was a Love Avoidant who eventually dumped me when his old high school girlfriend reconnected with him - I’m ever so grateful to him for showing me that there was life and love after divorce. And we are still great friends 14 years later.
Hello everyone. I read and mulled over all your messages, and today I spoke with my IC and discussed many of them with her as well. Thank you so much for this dialog...it's definitely a tough topic in that there really are no set rules around this. And it's different for everyone.
What I've come to understand is that it isn't about me trusting someone else as much as it's about me trusting myself - trusting myself to be a good judge of character, trusting that I can take care of myself and my emotional health.
I am not sure I trust myself to be the best judge of character. That is why I want to take things slow and have a coach as well as my IC to support me with the process of trying. I've had very few romantic relationships, so I'm not well practiced. I can't learn how to ride a bike just by reading about it. I have to try to do it to learn and practice. However, I trust that I would survive another bad experience. I know I can take care of myself...and I know that my emotional health is my responsibility.
We all come out of this with scars and issues. It’s how we recognize them, what we learn from them etc. no one has these issues perfectly worked through. And if people didn’t date until they were, we would probably never date. Unless those issues have the capability of hurting a dating partner, then, well, I agree with your IC. She probably sees more of fears, rather than issues you need to work through on the dating front. The 2 can be confused often. And the best thing to do for our fears is work through them.
This is a good point. I'm making effort to be a better human and partner. I'm also making effort to find someone who is also on that same path. I don't see how that mindset is one that would cause harm to others. The only partners that might be uncomfortable with where I am at are those that are not trying to be a better human or do not want to be open with feelings and struggles. And I don't want that kind of person in my life.
The question is …. What is healed “enough”? How is that defined?
I hope to never stop growing...does that mean I shouldn't date until I am done? Because if it is, I'll never be done.
I can only speak for myself, so this is my own definition, a standard I hold for myself: being whole as an individual. not looking for a relationship to fill a void, because there's no void to fill.
Put another way: I know that I trust myself.
I know that trusting myself means that regardless of external circumstances, I can take care of myself, my inner self, in ways that I couldn't before BD.
Betrayal is a biotch, but the biggest betrayal is when we betray ourselves - our values, our instincts, our inner voice. I don't claim to have all the answers or even some. I just know that I trust myself more than I ever have, and I won't betray myself, my values, my inner guide.
I've grown to understand over time that I did betray myself, my intuition, my self-respect, etc. I allowed myself to put my XH first. I ignored a lot of things that were happening. I've forgiven myself for what I realized I've done. And I intend to be different and never betray myself again.
The void of emotional romantic intimacy should only be filled by the same. I’m pretty whole in most areas of my life. Do I feel a void in my romantic life? Absolutely! Is it because I need external validation from others or to make me feel whole overall I’m other areas I don’t? Absolutely not.
For me, and others I know, emotional and romantic intimacy and partnership is a void that can’t be filled by a new hobby. For me, this is my healthy stage to get out there. Am I perfect? No. Do I have it all figured out in the dating world? No way. But am I filling the dating pool with someone who hasn’t “healed enough “? I don’t think so.
I agree with this. Truth is there pool will always be filled with unhealed people. My 'job' is to be my honest self and to seek out others that are on a journey of self-development and 'liberated love'. Just because the pool is filled with bad apples, doesn't mean there are not good ones there as well. Or that I need to be perfect before I have a 'right' to date. I am not seeking 'any decent relationship'. My goal is a long-term mutually healthy relationship. And, there is no replacement for romantic connection. No matter how full my life is, nothing can fill that except a romantic connection.
The last hurdle was forgiving myself, that I wouldn't be that person again....
This! Yes! I didn't deserve what my XH did to me, but I also allowed a lot of his poor behavior's towards me as well. And I had a few of my own that I am working on (codependency and people-pleasing to name the big ones)... I've accepted and forgiven myself and I'm growing and learning so that I will never be that person again.
Additionally it's also where you are no longer fighting "the last war". Where your former partner, the good, the bad, the whatever has no bearing on the person you might match up with. Certainly learning lessons like "hoarders can be difficult to live with" is important of course.
In my admittedly small experience with dating I have found that what some people are looking for is a more acceptable version of the person they used to have in their lives. In both cases the person I was dating tried to change my behaviour and lifestyle to match what they were used to. I'll keep buttoning up my shirt and not wearing gold chains, and it will be me that writes cards and picks out presents for my own children - thank you very much crazy
And at least from my point of view there's more out to the question than just "healed enough". There's also the willingness to open yourself up to another, to take risks and to have the "space" in your life that could be occupied by another.
I no longer want my ex and I want a relationship that is so much different than what mine was, that I do not think I will be searching for his replacement. He tried to change me a lot. I want a different kind of love this time around. And discussing the dating idea shows I'm open to it and thus ready for it.
For me the first stage towards healed and whole, was knowing. The understanding of those values and beliefs I am strengthening and I aspire to. Oddly, the second step was feeling it. Emotionally connecting to trusting and such. A mind and heart union as it were. Lastly, is believing it. I liken it to the soul. This is one’s faith in self. Beyond knowing. Beyond feeling. And encompassing both.
Everyone sees the world through their own lens. A person who has difficultly extending trust to others, has difficult trusting themselves. They may know the trust they are after, yet at this time not feel or have faith within themselves. Respect, compassion, forgiveness, loyalty, etc. all similarly extended, or not.
The principles of self shine outward. One is open to others. Has faith in their fellow man. And can risk gain. A healed person will be ok when/if they get hurt. They do not fear being destroyed again. There is a strength in such knowledge and faith.
I think what I have discovered is that I always knew who I was at my core...I just let others define or tell me who I am in order to please them. I feel lost in where I am going...but I'm just coming out of all the things holding me back. And hell, the future I planned on was taken from me. So of course I'm still figuring it out. I'm forward-looking even if I don't have all the answers yet. I'm in the discovery phase...that's a better way to describe it. I do not want to be destroyed again. Call that fear if you like. But to me, it's the knowledge that drives me to become a better me, to learn how to have better relationships, and to seek someone else who has similar values, character, goals, etc. And I already survived twice and I know I'd survive if it happens again.
I haven't settled into my new apartment fully, and I'm deep into a training course, so I'm not in some rush to start dating and I'm not rushed to fill some void. But my heart and mind are open to the idea and I'm leaning toward making a conscious effort with dating in the coming months. I welcome any additional thoughts you all might have for me.
El
I think it’s deceptively simple, this question of when yo date.
- you should be sure that you’ll never take your ex back even if they came crawling - because it’s terribly unfair to a new partner to dump them for your ex.
- you need to be healed enough that you can make healthy choices in terms of whom you date. It’s too easy to grab the first thing to fill that void, or to repeat old patterns that led to you picking your ex in the first place.
I agree with this^^^this is where I feel I am at...
El
Something’s I have come to understand are:
• I did my best to be the kind of wife and mother my XH needed/wanted
• I realize now that I felt I wasn’t enough for him, and that I didn’t do enough
• I realize now that I was never going to be “enough” for him, or do “enough” for him
• I am proud of the way I treated my XH and the ways I tried to show my love and support and partnership in my MR
• I realize now that I WAS ENOUGH
• I realize now that his affair and his treatment of me was not because of who I am/was
• I realize now it was my responsibility to do my part in the marriage, and it was his responsibility to do his part
• I realize now that he chose NOT to do his part, and that’s on him
Throughout my journey, I had felt so much shame. It feels good to be able to take responsibility for my parts (I’m not perfect and I wasn’t perfect) and let go of the parts that were never mine to own. When you are deep in crisis, it’s so hard to see things clearly enough to process them. But, newbies, as you move forward on your journey’s, you will see things so much more clearly. And when emotions settle you can process the experiences more clearly. Better days are ahead! Keep moving forward, growing, and most importantly, be forgiving of yourself along the way!
El
Elbereth, I'm so glad you're getting past your shame! Yes, we own our faults, and they own giving up on a partner who loved them, was willing to do the work, and would've stayed to the end. You're strong and plenty of fish in the sea.
I recently went on an outing with many friends from my past...some that I have not seen in over 5 years. I was a bit worried that the visit would feel awkward. That everyone would want to hear the scoop on what has happened to me (many of them are aware already through others). I worried that I would get passive-aggressive comments about my lack of staying in touch (which I was getting when in my MR and we started to do less with these folks). Some of them had also started to see what my XH was like before I did, so they started to not care for him much.
I went fearing all of this but just decided to be open and friendly and enjoy myself, regardless. And I had a wonderful time and everyone was lovely and supportive. And I also received a lot of comments about how well I looked, how I glowed with happiness, etc. So that felt good! Of course, many of them had not seen me while my health had nose-dived, weight gain, hair falling out, skin a mess...etc.
My XH has been reaching out over little things that are not important to reach out for. I responded to one thing as minimally as possible but the other one was not a question, so I didn't even respond. I know he took the OW to visit the family (as I saw it on social media from other relatives that I am connected with), which bothered me a bit (yes, I can admit that). Even though I mostly felt like "go ahead...I hope she feels awkward around your family that supports me and loves me". I did get some lovely texts from a few of them during this time...not mentioning her or that they were there, but just to check in with me and to let me know they love me and miss me. Which really was lovely. I'm sure they will be nice to her, but I do not think she will ever be fully accepted. But that is their circus to live with. The timing of his messages is just interesting...but expected I guess.
After all the moving and stress I've been under this year, I have really put in some extra time on self-care these last few weeks. I put off all the settling in and other stressors that I could. I've lost some weight (fasting and exercise) and I'm physically and emotionally feeling so much better. It's amazing how when you are buried in stress and physically exhausted, how hard it is to feel better. And also shows how critical extra time for self-care is! My training course is going decently well and a job I am interested in came up recently. I need to get my resume together to apply, which with all the moving, is a project that fell behind. A gal that used to work with me and my XH is part of the management team at this company, so I am not sure how much she knows about my situation with the D or what she thinks of XH. But I'm just going to be open and excited and just see what happens. All I can control is me. Right?
Wish me luck!
El
Dear El,
I finally found some time to catch up with your thread and I’m so happy to read you are doing really well.
I hope the job which looks interesting to you can be the start of a new episode on that side.
As for the dating, you’ve received plenty of good advice (good subject for myself as well so thanks for that)
‘Read’ you soon.
Eagle xxx
Hi Eagle! Thanks for popping into my thread! Great to hear from you!
Update.
Found out my XH is marrying OW today. Came in a social media email notification. Kind of knew it might happen but was surprised that it’s happening so soon. They have lived together only a little over one year. And our divorce was only finalized about a month ago. I guess they are working hard to fulfill the fantasy of their relationship. I’m okay. I think. Just feels strange and adds to those feelings of not being valued and loved the way I deserved. They really wasted no time.
El
I’m so sorry. I know how that kind of news can bring up a whole slew of emotions.
Just remember to value yourself and love yourself the way you deserve. I often forget this myself .
Thanks Ginger1.
I am doing my best to value and love myself the way I deserve. This is the biggest reason why I would not take my XH back. Even knowing this, it still stings to realize that I gave myself over so fully to this person and he just threw me away. It hurts. It’s hard. But I also realize I allowed him to treat me the way he did. I stayed even when I felt things had changed between us and after I saw who he truly was. Yes, I stayed because I married him and I took on being a parent to his boys. So I took that seriously, but I also stayed too long. I gave him a pass on behaviors that I did not like because I loved him. I did not maintain my boundaries or other acts of not accepting the way he was treating me. So, yes, I am sad and hurt on many levels. But I am doing my best to focus on how empowered I feel to be away from him. And soon I will start dating and looking for someone who deserves the person I am now.
El
You sound great, El! And remember, the OW didn’t win any prize! Wherever he goes, there he is!
Elbereth,
I imagine ExH getting remarried caused some spin. I know it's said on here we should completely detach to the point where we don't care at all what our Exs do, but imo that's in an ideal world whereas in reality most or perhaps all of us feel something. Sounds like you're brushing yourself off and focusing on the right things so hang in there!
And remember, the OW didn’t win any prize! Wherever he goes, there he is!
^Indeed.
Thanks, BL42. I’m trying to be strong about it and detach and not think about it too much. It surprises me how hard that is to do with this news, even after all this time apart and with minimal contact. Logically I realize that my XH is no prize and that he will continue to blame others for his unhappiness, but a part of me cannot stop thinking about him/them. Even as I’ve been feeling so much stronger and positive in my journey, I’ve been having a lot more feelings about this than expected. I am assuming I’m still suffering from some trauma bonds.
I feel strongly that this marriage is part of the fantasy of their relationship. As mentioned earlier in my thread, they had a relationship in college and my XH had wanted to marry her back then and the relationship collapsed (for many reasons) and for him, this relationship had been one that he hadn’t healed from. So they have this fantasy that they married the wrong people and they are reliving their past. So to be getting married now contributes to that narrative. It was expected honestly…but I just didn’t expect it so soon.
In the past, their relationship had issues, so I feel once the love hormones wear off, and reality sets in, they both will realize that neither one of them got a prize. I do not think the relationship will last long term. They are isolated from many friends and family, and they have a relationship built on lies and destruction. I think they are trying very hard to validate what they did by marrying each other. Like “see, we were meant to be together, so the collateral damage to others was necessary”. Or maybe in some mixed up way they think they can avoid the other cheating on them by marrying. I’m not even sure his family members are aware of the marriage…at least no one reached out to give me a heads up. No one knew he wanted a divorce from me either, until it was a done deal, so I think he is avoiding consulting with his family because he knows on some level what he’s doing is wrong and doesn’t want to hear it. Easier to do what he wants away from others that dissapprove or point out the truth.
I don’t know. I just need to stop thinking about them and stop caring. He’s made his bed and he gets to lay in it. I need to keep doing things that bring me closer to my goals and my healing. I need to expect their will be triggers like this periodically, and I need to do things that counter the feelings that come up. I’ve been doing so well, and I don’t want this to derail me. I can’t let their circus derail me. But it is hard to ignore the “he’s so happy with his new life” and other such feelings.
El
I don’t know. I just need to stop thinking about them and stop caring. He’s made his bed and he gets to lay in it. I need to keep doing things that bring me closer to my goals and my healing. I need to expect their will be triggers like this periodically, and I need to do things that counter the feelings that come up. I’ve been doing so well, and I don’t want this to derail me. I can’t let their circus derail me. But it is hard to ignore the “he’s so happy with his new life” and other such feelings.
There is a reason that your windshield is so big and the rear view mirror is so small ....
Don't let your past dictate your future....
Update.
Found out my XH is marrying OW today. Came in a social media email notification. Kind of knew it might happen but was surprised that it’s happening so soon. They have lived together only a little over one year. And our divorce was only finalized about a month ago.
For the statistically minded among us:
50% of first marriages end in divorce
65% of second marriages end in divorce
75% of third marriages end in divorceWhy? Because the vast majority of those second and third marriages which end in divorce begin less than 5 years after the previous marriage ends.
I wouldn't take those odds.
I guess they are working hard to fulfill the fantasy of their relationship. I’m okay. I think. Just feels strange and adds to those feelings of not being valued and loved the way I deserved. They really wasted no time.
El
I'm sorry. I know how it feels when your ex marries someone else. I'll leave it with "not good" ... sending you hugs. I hope that in no time at all you will realize how lucky you are to be free of that mess.
xoxo
Hi B,
Yeah, I’ve read the odds of success for their type of MR. It happens to be slightly higher considering they knew each other and dated in the past, but it’s still not good. I do believe it will eventually fail, or they will live in misery with each other longer term. Unless I really didn’t know my XH at all, I really do not get how they fit together. Geez, he’s an athiest and she’s super religious. So that alone would cause conflict.
I logically realize I am lucky to be away from my XH. But I can’t help feeling the feelings I’ve been having…knowing they are triggers, insecurities, trauma, etc. I am looking forward to the day when news like this doesn’t bother me at all. I’ve come far, but still on that journey.
El
he’s an athiest and she’s super religious.
But not so religious she won’t date a married man??? Lolol
kml,
I know right? She’s a pastor and counsels people too. And, she was married too.
So, they have a new MR built on lies, deceit, and betrayal, and the destruction of two families. I wonder how she feels about HELL?
El
he’s an athiest and she’s super religious.
But not so religious she won’t date a married man??? Lolol
Right?
kml,
I know right? She’s a pastor and counsels people too. And, she was married too.
So, they have a new MR built on lies, deceit, and betrayal, and the destruction of two families. I wonder how she feels about HELL?
El
Oh yeah, that's someone who's advice I'd take ... especially if I have marital problems. WTAF?
I know right?
Lucky for them, they moved away from everyone they know…so they wouldn’t have to share the truth about their relationship.
But everywhere you run, you are still there…
El
Hi Elbereth,
At +12yrs, I doubt I’d feel angry/sad/etc. about my ex remarrying—but you’re right there in the aftermath! Of course it’s going to sting.
As you said, they’re choosing a third marriage despite the odds against it. That’s their bed. Now that you got this out, make your bed amazing.
I have to ask - did her church fire her when they found out she was having an affair with a married man?
I am not sure how those in her life or her work reacted to her infidelity and divorce. I stayed out of it and certainly did not report her. And I’ve had no contact with her XH. I think they are pretty good at hiding the truth. Again, new city, new friends, and now they can hide things even more with MR.
Like everything. You can try to hide it from others but you can’t hide from yourself. I hope at some point the R fails and they both have to come to terms with who they are and what they have done. Maybe that is mean and I shouldn’t think that way, but if I need to be honest, I do.
El
I am not sure how those in her life or her work reacted to her infidelity and divorce. I stayed out of it and certainly did not report her. And I’ve had no contact with her XH. I think they are pretty good at hiding the truth. Again, new city, new friends, and now they can hide things even more with MR.
Hi El,
Geographical cures don't work.
Hiding from issues by changing relationship partners doesn't work.
We all know this is true.
Like everything. You can try to hide it from others but you can’t hide from yourself. I hope at some point the R fails and they both have to come to terms with who they are and what they have done. Maybe that is mean and I shouldn’t think that way, but if I need to be honest, I do.
El
I understand why you feel this way. My hope for you is that over time your feelings change to indifference towards them and whatever happens to them, as that will mean you've crossed the Rubicon. I could give 2 $h!ts about them; my concern is you, your long-term happiness and your peace of mind.
I always feel like people who have overlap in romantic relationships tell us a lot about themselves, like they can't bear to be alone!! HUGE red flag. So many of the spouses of those who find themselves here fit into that category, running from person to person, shine new toy to shiny new toy. Nice work if you can get it, I guess? But guess what, that wears thin. Sooner or later we all must face ourselves and our demons. Better to do so before you're at end of life. But you know this.
{{{{{hugs}}}}}
I look forward to the day that I feel indifference. I know I still have some anger and resentment about what happened and who my XH turned out to be. Time. I’m getting there. I’ve definitely made a lot of progress…
He is running from himself. He always made choices without thinking them through. And he usually blamed others for the resulting issues. At some point he will need to take responsibility for his own actions and choices. It’s his circus and he has to live with it.
Thanks for your thoughts and hugs.
El
nothing changes if nothing changes.
i will tell you the same thing my brother from another mother told me:
someday - i don't know when, but soon - you will realize that he did you a big favor by leaving.
xoxo
Not surprisingly, I completely agree with Bttrfly. It took me a minute (as the kids say) to get there but I did finally get to a point where I realized my XH gave me a huge gift in walking away when he did. On this side of the whole deal, I’m detached and moved on and don’t dwell on “what might have been”. Unlike a lot of posters here, though, in full disclosure, I didn’t share children with my XH so if I had, it may have been a whole different ball game, so to speak. All I know for sure is there is a point where it stops hurting and that point is different for everyone.
someday - i don't know when, but soon - you will realize that he did you a big favor by leaving
I do feel this way logically. I just don’t feel indifferent to him or the situation yet. I do feel pretty detached. So that is good. But I do still feel the resentment. I am hoping this is the final stage before indifference.
My guess is that its trauma bonds. My XH could be amazing…unfortunately, that person rarely showed himself to me in the later years of our R. That amazing person was the love of my life. He just may not have been real, or honest, and may be a covert narcissist. A facade.
Not surprisingly, I completely agree with Bttrfly. It took me a minute (as the kids say) to get there but I did finally get to a point where I realized my XH gave me a huge gift in walking away when he did. On this side of the whole deal, I’m detached and moved on and don’t dwell on “what might have been”. Unlike a lot of posters here, though, in full disclosure, I didn’t share children with my XH so if I had, it may have been a whole different ball game, so to speak. All I know for sure is there is a point where it stops hurting and that point is different for everyone.
I do realize he gave me a gift by leaving. I would still be with him and unhappy if he hadn’t. So I get frustrated with myself for still not feeling indifferent towards him yet. But the kids do change things. I know, even though they are my step-kids, that I will be in their lives always, and that also means in his. And I love his family too, who have been great to me.
I’m excited about dating, I’m excited that my life is mine again (instead of being driven by his wants), and I do realize the many things I did that allowed me to stay in the MR when he clearly wasn’t treating me well or respecting me. So I try to believe, like you say, that it is time and healing and I will get there.
I’ve come a long way since mediation. I’ve lost about 10 lbs, I’ve been feeling physically better and exercising more, the inflammation and swelling from intense stress has also lessened considerably, and I have a lot more energy. And I just feel good! So, progress, not perfection. But at least there is progress right?
How many LBS get finally to indifference only to have their Xs suddenly come back around? I fear that. I fear that as soon as I reach indifference and feel it to my core, he will play games with me and throw me backwards.
El
someday - i don't know when, but soon - you will realize that he did you a big favor by leaving
I do feel this way logically. I just don’t feel indifferent to him or the situation yet. I do feel pretty detached. So that is good. But I do still feel the resentment. I am hoping this is the final stage before indifference.
My guess is that its trauma bonds. My XH could be amazing…unfortunately, that person rarely showed himself to me in the later years of our R.
That amazing person was the love of my life. He just may not have been real, or honest, and may be a covert narcissist. A facade.Facade ???
No, not really....
That person was real, the same as you are real.
He exists in your memories of him, and when he is there, he is still amazing.
And it is okay to still love him the way you did then, you just have to accept that everything changes in life.
(Example- I still love my Ex...defined as I still love the girl that walked down the aisle to me, and the one that crated life with me, and helped build my foundation of being a man. NOT the one that lied continuously and chose a life with values that differed from mine by having 3 affairs)
It's okay to miss the 'him' that you married and had a life with...
He isn't the same, the same way that you aren't the same....
And being thankful that you aren't the same, and thankful that he isn't the same.
Cause I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't want a 25 year old me making the decisions that I had to make along the way...
People that can walk away from this struggle don't bother me at all...
People that take this struggle head on, amaze me...
So I would say that if you did NOT feel this way, I would have more concern....
Have you ever taken the time to sit quietly and say goodbye to him ???
Have you taken the time to sit down and say goodbye to the "you" that you were then ??
Have you taken the time to sit down and say goodbye to the "us" that you were ??
Accept all of the decisions that you don't fit you today ?
And realize that you both are human, and you WILL make errors in life ???
It's a pretty empowering experience....
Head/heart reconciliation is hard....
Some days the heart leads, some days the head leads....
You'll get there when they both agree on most days....
Just a thought...
Elbereth,
We have not met before, so hello.
That amazing person was the love of my life. He just may not have been real, or honest, and may be a covert narcissist. A facade.
He was and is real. Humans are complicated. I do not think it was ever his intention to trip snd fall away from you. What you have now does not negate what was.It took me a long time to understand what I had, was real and it wasn't wasted time. The reason it hurts so much, is because it was real. Your mame suggests you may have heard this before
I never have been indifferent nor do I want to be, now. Make no mistake, I WORKED my a$$ off towards that end (indifference) and for me, the lack of feeling towards him and everything about "us" was ultimately what fed the thoughts of "wasn't real" etc. and made everything feel like it was a mistake. It was hard and painful to say goodbye to the man I married, to us and to that part of me ^^^ like the Dude said. it's pretty empowering. And remember to be kind to yourself regardless of where all of this takes you.
How many LBS get finally to indifference only to have their Xs suddenly come back around? I fear that. I fear that as soon as I reach indifference and feel it to my core, he will play games with me and throw me backwards.
Fear can hold us in places we need to move from.
Hi Grace_OM,
I hear you, but there are many other signs that I see now that showed that much of my relationship with my ex was with a facade… He even pretended to be someone else with past relationships to get what he wanted. I heard the stories, but saw the side he showed me…the victim…instead of the red flags that they were.
What was real was the love I felt for him. Even if it was the version of H he showed me. But I am pretty sure I am right that what he felt for me was more what I did for him than who I am as a person. And he really showed who he actually is by his actions over the last several years. It is painful to say goodbye to all sides of the man I married…but I hope the progress I have made will continue to make it easier over time.
Yes, fear can hold us in places we need to move from. I am trying to get past the fear. Working in it, and these other things with my IC and on my own. Thank you for visiting my thread and for your words and advice. I appreciate it.
El
What was real was the love I felt for him………But I am pretty sure I am right that what he felt for me was more what I did for him than who I am as a person.
I could have written the exact same thing about my ex!
What was real was the love I felt for him………But I am pretty sure I am right that what he felt for me was more what I did for him than who I am as a person.
I could have written the exact same thing about my ex!
Ugh, I’m sorry. It is not a good feeling.
I read something on a forum that resonated with me…and maybe describes more how I feel my relationship with my spouse was a facade…at least he was. It was in regards to BPD and how the love bombing is really for themselves…and there was love bombing in the beginning of our relationship. It is described that they love bomb for themselves because they do not feel love, they feel NEED. A deep need to see themselves as wonderful and worthy. The more they throw at you, the more they feel this need. They have a irrational, deep-seated need for devotion and admiration and praise from someone that reflects well upon them. And his family and friends love me and think I am the best person he’s ever been with.
But what really is awful about this is that they have no “them” to give, or rather that is what they feel. They have some idea that they are showing a version of themselves that hides the emptiness and lack of self esteem inside and they know you are buying into this facade. And so they start to despise you for buying into it, the moment you “let them down” by just being a normal human being with limits. But as long as they are getting what they need from it, they will keep the act going. But when the veneer hiding the black hole of self-loathing inside of them crumbles, the person they thought was so awesome is now the one that they take it out on. When you show you cannot feed their endless black hole of need, they hate you for it. Or they just decide to do whatever they want regardless of how it makes you feel. They move on. The level of indifference they feel towards you is equal to the level of adoration they once felt for you.
I honestly do not know if my XH had BPD. I do know that some of the symptoms are there. And I also feel that his needs from me were insatiable…to the point that my life, my health, everything deteriorated around him. And I received very little in return…just enough to keep me wanting those rare moments of feeling truly loved. I’ve said before that I ended this relationship feeling like an old worn out sock full of holes and discarded. I was never going to be enough. No one will. And looking back I see he molded himself to fit me, as well as he molded himself in past relationships to fit them. When we met, it came across to me as a compliment that he was so interested in me and so interested in the things I am interested in that I took this to mean he was in love with me. But now I see it that he really never truly loved me at all. I just served his needs for a time.
It’s crazy how hindsight can allow you to see things so differently. I know many of you say “don’t rewrite the past” but to me the past is just getting clearer. And it’s not a good one. It was a waste of the love I had to give. It was pretty one sided. Sure, I loved and adored him (the him I THOUGHT he was). But he used me and didn’t love me. Not a good feeling.
One positive thing to come out of this relationship is that now I have the knowledge. I know better what to look for and avoid. Of course I am still petrified of ending up with another person like him (that’s why I will be dating with both a dating coach and an IC), but I am still willing to put myself out there to find someone who is deserving of my love. I refuse to have a hardened heart because of who my XH was.
El
Just adding an update…
No one has mentioned my XHs MR to OW to me yet. I’m not sure if it’s because no one really is aware (as they did move away from everyone) or if no one wants to tell me. Honestly, I’ve not really heard from anyone on his side since. So a part of me has fears that folks are distancing from me. My XH did reach out post his marriage about the kids, but made no mention of his MR. And I did not either. Maybe he was testing to see if I knew?
On one hand, I did expect them to marry at some point. They have a story that they need to tell. But is it weird that I feel hurt that the ink was barely dry on our D before they did it? I know I don’t want him back, but I do still feel the feelings of being discarded. Rejection at any level hurts…so I’m doing my best to remind myself that being rejected by someone who really isn’t worthy is not worth focusing on.
I’ve been out GALing and enjoying my summer. I’ve made some new friends and have been physically and emotionally feeling better. I’ve dropped at least 10 lbs and I’m exercising a lot more. I worry as the seasons change that it will be harder to maintain with the days getting shorter (and I am not very comfortable going out walking by myself after dark). And working out at a gym is not really my thing either.
I’ve not started any OLD profiles yet. I’ve signed up on a couple of apps, but just have been poking around with an empty profile. I’ve been listening to a lot of podcasts about dating (post divorce or otherwise) and I’m getting excited about it. But with just finishing my training course and working on getting myself ready to start seeking employment has been my bigger priority lately. If I met someone and they asked me out, I’d be willing, but otherwise, I’ve not really felt the rush to get my profiles up or invest in dating. I don’t feel desperate about it. Which is good I guess. I’m also going to be traveling this fall, so my focus is elsewhere. I do tend to look around me when I’m out and about for any potential opportunities to meet someone organically.
Well, that’s about all that’s been going on with me. Sad that Summer is coming to an end. Winter is very long where I live. The kids will be home for some of the time during the holidays, so I’m excited about that, even if I know I will get only very limited time with them.
That’s about all at the moment. Still making progress every day!
El
What kind of exercise do you enjoy? Maybe I can give you some pointers on how to translate it into the winter months.
My ex too got engaged before soon after the ink was dry. The feeling of being discarded hurts. I get that. But your focus is absolutely correct. He’s not worthy, therefore his rejection isn’t worthy.
You’ll get out there again. Keeping your eyes open and your heart open while not pursing is a good way to approach things. You seem extremely grounded and Ike you are enjoying life !
Hi Ginger1,
I love to walk/hike and yoga/pilates. I have invested a bit in home based gym gear such as hand weights, bands, balls, etc. No exercise machines. My apartment is too small to go crazy. I tried running but never could get into it. I have worked out at a gym, but never with a trainer. Maybe I’d like it more if I tried a trainer…who would keep me motivated and committed to going! I also used to ride horses which I would love to do again and is quite the workout.
As for my outlook about my ex and all, I think I’m a realist. Logically I see how things were and what person he is. But convincing my heart to stop feeling some of the hurt has been harder. I find that really strange. I kind of think it’s just because I was trauma bonded or used to having him in my life. I do feel pretty detached, I know I deserve better and I’m excited about the future, but, I have been a bit thrown back by his marriage…and the fact that no one has mentioned it to me. Why should I care? I have a strong feeling the relationship won’t work out long term. I hope it’s just because I fear the loss of or distance with the family as a result, more than anything to do with my ex.
I don’t know, but I’m doing my best to distract myself from that circus and keep the focus on myself and my health, and my goals for my future. At least I am making good progress with that!
El
What part of your childhood or youth might this loss be triggering echoes of?
Considering my parents divorced when I was young, and my bio-dad wasn’t really in my life, it could have impacted me in ways I don’t fully understand. I did have an amazing step-dad, but he didn’t come into my life until I was a pre-teen. We also moved around a lot when I was younger. I used to really feel that the way I grew up gave me grit and allowed me to fit in anywhere. But now that I’m older and after what I have gone through, I wonder if there is still some unresolved things from my past that I need to work through. I’ve brought up this with my IC as well.
I’m considering leaving this forum along with the others that have recently left. Most of the folks that have supported me on my journey are no longer here, and that makes me sad. This forum was a lifeline to me, and I feel sad that the new folks that come along are not going to benefit from the knowledge and experience from which I benefited. I still am in need of the support, but it feels less and less like I will find it here.
I hope that those remaining and offering support to the newbies respect differences of opinion and advice, and that the focus remains on the those needing the support instead of bickering between posters over who is more right, wrong, rude, caring, fake, rightous, whatever. There is enough pain and drama in each of our MR experiences and in the current world. I hope this place becomes again the refuge it once was.
For those still here that have offered me support, I thank you. From the bottom of my heart.
El
Elbereth,
I am truly sorry that you are considering leave the Board. It can still be a lifeline to you and the newbies as well. One thing I learned many years ago is that....if you don't like what is being posted on a particular thread, then do not read it.
Again, I am truly sorry. The Board was not like this years ago. I understand people get frustrated and have good and bad days, but I do not condone being disrespectful regardless of who is right, wrong or sitting on the fence. This is a public forum and if they do not agree, etc., then leave the forum for a while.
I do hope that if you opt to leave, that you will leave the door open and return when you need assistance.
I wish you all of the best.
El, I'm sorry you're contemplating leaving. I get it. I am going to do my best to keep checking in on the MLC side. Life's gotten quite busy lately here, so I'm not able to spend as much time here as before.
I hope you continue to post xoxoxo
Dear El,
My sincere apologies for not replying to your thread sooner. I will log in from time to time as I have greatly appreciated your support all this time.
However, I completely understand your reaction because I also have a real hard time with how people sometimes react to certain messages. That is why I haven’t been posting for quite some time although I still follow your thread and most of the MLC threads.
I will also try to keep my thread alive by occasionally sketching a sequel of the situation. I personally find it important that others can make a comparison with their current situation.
It makes me happy to read that you too are making so much progress and are on your way to a complete healing of the pain that was inflicted on you.
No one has mentioned my XHs MR to OW to me yet. I’m not sure if it’s because no one really is aware (as they did move away from everyone) or if no one wants to tell me. Honestly, I’ve not really heard from anyone on his side since. So a part of me has fears that folks are distancing from me. My XH did reach out post his marriage about the kids, but made no mention of his MR. And I did not either. Maybe he was testing to see if I knew?
On one hand, I did expect them to marry at some point. They have a story that they need to tell. But is it weird that I feel hurt that the ink was barely dry on our D before they did it? I know I don’t want him back, but I do still feel the feelings of being discarded. Rejection at any level hurts…so I’m doing my best to remind myself that being rejected by someone who really isn’t worthy is not worth focusing on.
Of course, it is normal for this to be a painful experience. Just because you don't want the relationship back doesn't mean the love you felt for him is completely gone. I am even convinced that this will never go away completely, but that we will be able to give it more and more a place in our hearts.
Take care EL XXX
Hello all. I thought I'd pop in to provide a little update. I apologize that I've not had the chance to check up on how others' situations are progressing.
I went on a trip in the fall which was amazing. However, I caught covid during the trip. I also had another medical issue before I left, so both of those things set me back a bit health-wise. Before that I was feeling amazing. I'd lost weight, felt more energy, and was doing regular exercise. I am still working back up to where I was. I do think covid left some lasting effects on my energy level and my lungs.
The holidays were awkward. After so many years of having a family of my own to celebrate with, it was a very lonely time. A family member of mine did invite me over and I wasn't alone on Xmas day, but it didn't really feel like a holiday. But I'm still grateful for it. I was able to see my boys for a couple of hours while they were in town. Of course, at their ages, they just want to see their friends, so that I tried not to take it personally. But it did make me very sad. I guess all of these feelings are normal during the holidays. It is a hard time for a lot of people, right?
My medical issues have dragged out a bit so that has slowed down any attempt at dating. But after I have my surgery, I hope that by early summer I can put focus on it. I'm not sure if I will use a matchmaker, OLD, or what, but even though I have a lot of fear, there is a part of me that is looking forward to a future with someone. Or at least spending some time with someone and growing my confidence.
I've continued counseling and a lot of self-help. I have had my ups and downs for sure. Honestly, I've tried very hard to avoid all contact with my ex but it seems that every few weeks or so something comes up and he reaches out. My counselor thinks he's doing it on purpose to keep me close. Maybe so. I'm cordial, but I am not friendly. I honestly do not know what to think. All I know is that each time I get a message, it gets to me and I'm down for a few days. I then dwell on him and he comes back into my dreams. I'm much better when there is no contact at all...no reminders...no seeing his name or hearing his voice. All those things are hard. Even with knowing that he isn't the person I fell in love with.
His family did find out that no one told me that he got married. In fact, when he told them that he was getting married, they told him he needed to tell me. So they thought he had. Needless to say, I think the family thought that was pretty disrespectful of him. I agreed. I've also have the impression they do not care much for the OW nor do they approve of the marriage. However, I avoid asking too many questions. His family continues to be supportive of me. Which I'm so grateful for. I've also asked the relatives to check in with the boys...as they avoid talking to me about it all. I worry about how this whole situation has affected them. They said they will try to see what they can find out.
I am still struggling to find work but have had a couple of projects or odd jobs. Health insurance has been a nightmare, but now I think I'm on a decent plan. I'm focusing on applying for jobs and exploring new opportunities. I've also made a few new girlfriends. I also have a few more trips planned for this year. After all that I've been through, I'm doing my best to do things that feed my soul and bring me joy.
Anyway, sending positive vibes to my friends on here, and I will try to catch up with you all within the next few weeks. I'll also check back in to see if my post just sits here and grows cobwebs...then I'll know that my thread is on its deathbed for sure. Haha!
Elbereth
Elbereth,
The holidays were awkward. After so many years of having a family of my own to celebrate with, it was a very lonely time...I guess all of these feelings are normal during the holidays. It is a hard time for a lot of people, right?
You're not alone. I think it's common for folks in our situations to feeling lonely at the holidays.
I'm not sure if I will use a matchmaker, OLD, or what, but even though I have a lot of fear, there is a part of me that is looking forward to a future with someone.
Lots of OLD discussion, but not much matchmaker talk! Where do you even find one these days?
Honestly, I've tried very hard to avoid all contact with my ex but it seems that every few weeks or so something comes up and he reaches out.
I'm much better when there is no contact at all...no reminders...no seeing his name or hearing his voice.
Honest question...can't you block him? What necessitates contact these days? You don't have young children together.
His family did find out that no one told me that he got married. In fact, when he told them that he was getting married, they told him he needed to tell me. So they thought he had. Needless to say, I think the family thought that was pretty disrespectful of him. I agreed.
You know what was WAY more disrespectful than not telling you he got remarried? Having the affair and divorcing you in the first place. Not even close.
I'm focusing on applying for jobs and exploring new opportunities. I've also made a few new girlfriends. I also have a few more trips planned for this year. After all that I've been through, I'm doing my best to do things that feed my soul and bring me joy.
Sounds good! Keep it up Elbereth!
Hey BL42,
I'm not sure if I will use a matchmaker, OLD, or what, but even though I have a lot of fear, there is a part of me that is looking forward to a future with someone.
Lots of OLD discussion, but not much matchmaker talk! Where do you even find one these days?
Don’t worry, not all old-fashioned like that where you find a matchmaker through your Aunt Lidia. I would look into a service… there are a few of those that are nationwide.
Honestly, I've tried very hard to avoid all contact with my ex but it seems that every few weeks or so something comes up and he reaches out.
I'm much better when there is no contact at all...no reminders...no seeing his name or hearing his voice.
Honest question...can't you block him? What necessitates contact these days? You don't have young children together.
Of course, I could block him, but I feel like that would complicate my relationship with my SSs, his kids, who are barely adults. Right now I'm avoiding him but not blocking him completely. I may later as the kids get bigger, but right now this is where I am at. Yes, it bothers me when he reaches out, but at least it's not constant. If it becomes unmanageable on my part, then I may block him. My focus is to maintain a positive relationship with my SSs. And drama with their dad would complicate things.
His family did find out that no one told me that he got married. In fact, when he told them that he was getting married, they told him he needed to tell me. So they thought he had. Needless to say, I think the family thought that was pretty disrespectful of him. I agreed.
You know what was WAY more disrespectful than not telling you he got remarried? Having the affair and divorcing you in the first place. Not even close.
Yep, very true! Yes, it hurt, but I do realize that it is just more disrespect toward me...on par with what he's been doing for a long time. I shouldn't be surprised, I know, but I guess at some point I hoped he'd actually be respectful (considering how gracious I've been). I can't help it. But I've been realizing that he just isn't ever going to be that person. When someone shows you who and what they are, you should believe it. And I'm starting to believe it.
Right now I am being the better person. And I think everyone in our circle sees that. Except maybe my XH. Who knows. But for now, I am just focusing on my life and my relationship with the kids. I am doing my best to avoid him. I'm doing my best to move forward.
Thanks for your encouragement! It's definitely been a struggle.
El
Hi El, glad to see you posting again girlie !!! xoxoxo
Elbereth,
I guess at some point I hoped he'd actually be respectful (considering how gracious I've been). I can't help it. But I've been realizing that he just isn't ever going to be that person. When someone shows you who and what they are, you should believe it. And I'm starting to believe it.
Indeed.
Right now I am being the better person. And I think everyone in our circle sees that. Except maybe my XH. Who knows. But for now, I am just focusing on my life and my relationship with the kids. I am doing my best to avoid him. I'm doing my best to move forward.
Good place to put your focus. Keep at it!
Link to new thread is
here.